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Ethesis
01-10-2018, 21:02
Ok. I keep finding reviews like this one:

https://backpackinglight.com/nemo-equipment-blaze-2p-tent-review/

they are great, but I’m looking for a 2 Person tent that doesn’t let the air stream through and no one talks about that. When it is cold, some tents vent a lot more than others.

I have one that is great for cool and warm weather but I’d like to find something more suitable d to February/March backpacking.

Tipi Walter
01-10-2018, 21:05
I'm not a fan of mesh tents or mesh inner tents that cannot be sealed with a solid canopy, most especially for cold weather camping.

The tendency for the last decade plus is to make these style tents.

Ethesis
01-10-2018, 21:46
This is what I have: https://www.mountainhardwear.com/ghost-ul-3-tent-1650851.html

with the way the rain fly sets up on the back the venting is great. But there isn’t really a way to stop it.

Tent is for sale just about everywhere for about $300.

Anyway. Hope that explains what I’m looking for.

Ethesis
01-10-2018, 21:48
I'm not a fan of mesh tents or mesh inner tents that cannot be sealed with a solid canopy, most especially for cold weather camping.

The tendency for the last decade plus is to make these style tents.

exactly. I love them for warmer weather. But when it drops below 40 degrees on the way to freezing and bow? Not so much.

Which is is why I was looking for advice.

Tipi Walter
01-10-2018, 21:58
exactly. I love them for warmer weather. But when it drops below 40 degrees on the way to freezing and bow? Not so much.

Which is is why I was looking for advice.

I would start with some research on 4 season tents, most esp double wall tents.

Ethesis
01-10-2018, 22:03
I would start with some research on 4 season tents, most esp double wall tents.

I have, but they are heavier than snot. My REI half dome does well enough for that kind of weather but I was hoping for something lighter. I’ve used the half dome below freezing, and even hiked a section or two with it, but I’ve moved on to lighter tents and would like not to move back.

I want something as warm warm as a half dome, but lighter. Something that I can limit the venting to that amount would be great.

It is just hard to look at tents and figure figure out how they vent. Even set up in the store.

Tipi Walter
01-10-2018, 22:33
I have, but they are heavier than snot. My REI half dome does well enough for that kind of weather but I was hoping for something lighter. I’ve used the half dome below freezing, and even hiked a section or two with it, but I’ve moved on to lighter tents and would like not to move back.

I want something as warm warm as a half dome, but lighter. Something that I can limit the venting to that amount would be great.

It is just hard to look at tents and figure figure out how they vent. Even set up in the store.

I have to say that the majority of winter tents I see are 3 season tents with the unsealable mesh. The main reason is because generally 4 season tents are as you say heavier. And realistically speaking 3 season tents work fine in most winter situations.

The Cleaner
01-11-2018, 00:46
I've found that my TarpTent Moment Double Wall works well. It's not too expensive or heavy even with the extra crossing pole. They have some new tents with more room and not too heavy.41522

Venchka
01-11-2018, 08:21
I've found that my TarpTent Moment Double Wall works well. It's not too expensive or heavy even with the extra crossing pole. They have some new tents with more room and not too heavy.41522
...and furthermore,
Henry sells mostly solid inner inner tent bodies for his double wall models. I purchased the StratoSpire 1 last year with the partial solid inner tent. I couldn’t be happier. It only added about 2 ounces. No problem with drafts around my head. Condensation on the fly does not drip on me. When insects aren’t a problem, the inner stays in the car.
Wayne

Gambit McCrae
01-11-2018, 11:44
May want to check out the Black Diamond Awhenee tent(spelling) I did a gear review on one of these and I found that when it was all zipped up to be quite air tight, for a tent.

41527

Venchka
01-11-2018, 13:25
I missed the 2 person requirement. Everything I said about the StratoSpire1 applies to the StratosSpire2. Slightly heavier of course.
TarpTent also offers the Scarp 2 for above treeline real winter use. Look for YouTube videos from the UK. Those folks camp in crap weather year round. :cool: :banana
Wayne

Venchka
01-11-2018, 13:33
Here you go. Winter in Scotland. You may need translation. :banana

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB_ACNnu1BY

Wayne

Ethesis
01-11-2018, 13:34
Thank You for the advice. I’ll refine my looking.

Thanks again.

Venchka
01-11-2018, 13:58
Real winter. North Carolina. Hilleberg is your friend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD5WIqPvgMI

Wayne

Venchka
01-11-2018, 14:00
Thank You for the advice. I’ll refine my looking.

Thanks again.
You're welcome. I just realized that we're neighbors.
Good luck!
Wayne

TwoSpirits
01-11-2018, 14:20
Check out Big Sky International, specifically their Chinook model.

Leo L.
01-11-2018, 15:57
I ended up ordering an Exped Venus 2 Extreme for winter use:
http://www.exped.com/germany/de/product-category/zelte/venus-ii-extreme-mossgreen
Its a bit on the heavy side, but honestly I don't trust those lighweight 3-seasons tents to withstand a true winter storm.

This new tent will arrive tomorrow and hopefully I can give it a first try through the weekend.

nsherry61
01-11-2018, 16:32
MSR's new Access line of tents designed for ultra-light ski touring (https://www.msrgear.com/tents/access-2) fit the bill of light and 4 season will fabric instead of mesh inners.

soumodeler
01-11-2018, 17:08
Be sure to check out the TarpTent Scarp 2 with the solid inner. I think the solid is the default config, and you have to buy the mesh separate. If you need more snow load capacity, you can get the crossing poles to beef it up.

Seriously considering this for my next tent.

Here is a thorough review of it:

https://www.trailgroove.com/forums/topic/2295-tarptent-scarp-2-review/

blw2
01-11-2018, 17:51
just pile the snow up around the tent into a little berm to choke off the mesh
problem solved:banana

ADK Walker
01-11-2018, 18:04
I love my Black Diamond First Light for winter. They make 3 and 4 man tents as well.

LIhikers
01-11-2018, 20:35
For winter use, where the ground just might be frozen, I like a free standing tent.
It just makes it quicker to get the tent up in cold weather and that can be a good thing.
Trying to find, and move, logs and rocks to secure your tent with can be a pain with frozen hands.

saltysack
01-11-2018, 21:04
If your not set on a tent...a low pitched duomid is pretty bomb proof.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ethesis
01-11-2018, 23:03
Thanks all.

Leo L.
01-12-2018, 04:07
MSR's new Access line of tents designed for ultra-light ski touring (https://www.msrgear.com/tents/access-2) fit the bill of light and 4 season will fabric instead of mesh inners.
When I started looking for a 4-season tent I was into getting a MSR Access 2, as I have a MSR Hubba Hubba NX for 3-season use and love it (kind of - there are some issues though).

I have a dealer here who had the Access on stock and went there to get hands on it.
Got disappointed.
Biggest issue with the Access is IMHO, that it has two doors made of fabric only (no double-up with mesh) and two small mesh windows atop of each door, which can't be closed by fabric.
So you have the disadvantage of both, not good/warm enough for real winter use due to the mesh windows permanently open, plus no big mesh door for perfect ventilation for summer use.
Another sore point is the additional poles going down in the middle of the length side, thus cutting the door size into half.
What I don't love on the Hubba Hubba NX is, that the poles don't fold down to a nice slim bundle, but leave some awkwardly shaped three-way-joints that don't fold down neatly.
The poles of the Access have two additional knee-joints that makes the folded bundle even more awkward and bulky, and I'm afraid that something might break when, say, stepped on accidentially.

Honestly I don't understand why MSR did make such grave design mistakes at the Access. Maybe they tried, with all might, to engineer it just different.

Time Zone
01-12-2018, 06:56
When I started looking for a 4-season tent I was into getting a MSR Access 2, as I have a MSR Hubba Hubba NX for 3-season use and love it (kind of - there are some issues though).

I have a dealer here who had the Access on stock and went there to get hands on it.
Got disappointed.
Biggest issue with the Access is IMHO, that it has two doors made of fabric only (no double-up with mesh) and two small mesh windows atop of each door, which can't be closed by fabric.
So you have the disadvantage of both, not good/warm enough for real winter use due to the mesh windows permanently open, plus no big mesh door for perfect ventilation for summer use.
Another sore point is the additional poles going down in the middle of the length side, thus cutting the door size into half.
What I don't love on the Hubba Hubba NX is, that the poles don't fold down to a nice slim bundle, but leave some awkwardly shaped three-way-joints that don't fold down neatly.
The poles of the Access have two additional knee-joints that makes the folded bundle even more awkward and bulky, and I'm afraid that something might break when, say, stepped on accidentially.

Honestly I don't understand why MSR did make such grave design mistakes at the Access. Maybe they tried, with all might, to engineer it just different.

Seems to me that there's a bit of method behind the madness.

The permanently-open mesh windows are there for condensation relief, but small, to reduce heat loss through mesh. Based on the reviews at the MSR site, it sounds like they're not so effective, given that the outer has no vents. As for no mesh on the doors, that reduces weight and bulk, and the tent isn't marketed for summer use anyway. Arguably should be called "fourth season" tent rather than four-season.

While the additional pole reduces the size of the door, it also enhances the tent's strength against snow loads.

There are other criticisms to make - such as the low-angled walls, reducing usable floorspace. I also question whether the complex (and, from what you say, not packing-friendly) pole design offers significantly better snow-shedding or snow-bearing performance over a basic X design, or even X plus a third pole (often seen in mountaineering domes).

Leo L.
01-12-2018, 07:28
...
Arguably should be called "fourth season" tent rather than four-season.
...
Or maybe even pointier call it 3,5th season (the small gap inbetween the three seasons and the fourth).
WRT the static mesh windows I would not call it fit for hard winter use. These vents I'd prefer to decide myself when I want to close them in favor of warmth, or have them open. A few grams of cloth could do really great there, and wouldn't kill you carrying it.
I would not have hesistated to pay the very high price for the Access if it was perfect - which it unfortunately is far from, IMHO.

My Exped Venus 2 Extreme just happened to arrive right now, will give a short review in my other thread soon.

Leo L.
01-12-2018, 07:36
To be fair, I have to add: Many details on the Access are really great, especially the poles itself (I think they are Aluminium/Carbonfiber combo).

Venchka
01-12-2018, 10:54
For winter use, where the ground just might be frozen, I like a free standing tent.
It just makes it quicker to get the tent up in cold weather and that can be a good thing.
Trying to find, and move, logs and rocks to secure your tent with can be a pain with frozen hands.
Freestanding is NOT Freestaying.
You still need to anchor the tent. All tents.
Wayne

TX Aggie
01-12-2018, 11:59
When you say Winter, that’s still a pretty broad spectrum, even when focusing just on the AT.

The problem with your requirement of having a fully sealed tent is one of condensation. In winter especially, you need plenty of ventilation or else you’ll get a heavy dose of frost, especially in sub-Zero temps.
As others have mentioned, Tarp Tent has some great options with their partially solid wall inserts, and Mountain Laurel Designs has some very good options, especially for windy areas. If you really want a true winter backpackable tent, Hilleberg, as already stated, is your friend.

The extreme option are hot tents, and those can be found at SeekOutside.com.

LIhikers
01-13-2018, 00:15
Freestanding is NOT Freestaying.
You still need to anchor the tent. All tents.
Wayne

That's true, but it's a major part of the battle to have a free standing tent.

Venchka
01-13-2018, 20:26
That's true, but it's a major part of the battle to have a free standing tent.
I’ve owned both. They have all worked well for me.
Wayne

Skostas
01-14-2018, 16:26
I love my Black Diamond First Light for winter. They make 3 and 4 man tents as well.

https://sectionhiker.com/tents-vs-tarps-winter-bakeoff/


He has a page on winter tent setup and uses and recommends the First Light


https://sectionhiker.com/black-diamond-firstlight-tent-long-term-gear-review/

Venchka
01-14-2018, 17:04
Add the MSR Hubba NX Series of tents to the TarpTent line for cold weather, but not necessarily full blown winter. The Hubba Hubba NX is a 2 person double wall tent. The lower third of the inner tent is solid nylon cloth. Nylon mesh above the solid wall for ventilation.
Photos online will explain better than I can.
Wayne

Ethesis
01-15-2018, 01:30
For the kind of cooler weather (around freezing but not too much below) my half dome works well. I was just hoping for something that weighed less in the same function.

Think I’ve learned a lot from the comments here.

MtDoraDave
01-16-2018, 08:21
Several of the Tarptent tents have partial solid interiors which would help in breezy/ windy conditions. However, I have found that with just the regular mesh interior in my Notch, it is not windy inside the tent when it is windy outside the tent - far less breezy inside the tent compared to a 3 walled shelter!

I'm sure an engineer could explain it, but I imagine it has something to do with the surface area of the tent vs the area of the gap along the bottom so that a 20mph wind is reduced by whatever the percentage of the comparable surface areas. Or something.