View Full Version : Becoming Shuttle Driver
My husband and I are getting ready to move to a town near the southern terminus of the AT. Does anyone happen to know what is involved in being a shuttle driver? Do you need a particular license/permit/insurance coverage? If this has been posted before, sorry!
Gambit McCrae
01-16-2018, 15:16
I don't know if you "Have to" but I do know that Mountain Harbor BB would have all the info "straight from a licensed shuttle driver as they are top notch, first class insured shutters."
You didn't ask, but I will give my 2 cents on what a hiker likes out of a shuttle driver. Well...What Gambit Likes out of a shuttle driver.
1-Do not charge by the person, charge by the ride. It costs the same amount to make the drive with 1 person as it does for 4. I guess the opposite side of this is that makes it more expensive for the 1 guy...But on the other hand, I have really thought a lot of a shuttle driver that asks if I am flexible on leave time so that I and another hiker could split the cost of the shuttle.
2- Accepting/ replying/ communicating via text messages especially while your hiker is on the trail if they are getting an end of trip shuttle back to the car.
3- I am a non smoker - I dislike when shuttle drivers smoke when shuttling me and or others I am with.
4- be knowledgeable of the trail. Another good reason for post trip shuttles, you get first hand feedback on what your section of trail is experiencing vs dropping them off at the beginning of hike and that's it.
5-Especially during the thru hiker season, carry some supplies to sell to hikers. Folks coming from the airport will need fuel. Folks on up around Franklin will need fuel as well. If your gunna drive them to town, why not save them a trip to get fuel, and make a buck or 2 while your at it.
6- Ron Brown carries a can of assorted buckles and clips, like $1 a piece. He says it has saved a many a hiker some grief on the trail.
7- A clean, on time ride :)
peakbagger
01-16-2018, 15:25
It varies by state. You will need commercial vehicle insurance which is more expensive than regular insurance. It will have an increased liability cap on it. In some areas you may need a special drivers license. If the driver will be shuttling into national forest, an outfitter guide permit may be needed.
Many folks find out the actual costs and decide to go on a donation or a tip basis. It may work fine until there is an accident and then the insurance company will call up and inform you that they will not cover the claim.
Thefurther
01-16-2018, 16:54
It varies by state. You will need commercial vehicle insurance which is more expensive than regular insurance. It will have an increased liability cap on it. In some areas you may need a special drivers license. If the driver will be shuttling into national forest, an outfitter guide permit may be needed.
Many folks find out the actual costs and decide to go on a donation or a tip basis. It may work fine until there is an accident and then the insurance company will call up and inform you that they will not cover the claim.
plan on spending 8 gs for insurance and 10 gs in repairs and weekly maintenance fees . you need to be dedicated to make money . i run 7 days a week 24 hour days non stop during the season . you have to make enough to sustain you until the next year . lets just say you do 200 hundred a day 120 of that is going out on expenses . i would not make your first income . if you are looking to make a little extra cash it is great . if you have any more questions feel free to ask . peace my friend
Thefurther
01-16-2018, 16:54
whoops sorry peakbagger i did not mean to reply to you .
Tennessee Viking
01-16-2018, 18:06
Its more of a passion & service and hiker community thing than income.
Definitely determine your drive distance limits.
Also make friends with the local AT club and other Shuttle Drivers within the area.
Advertise on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.
I'm in the auto insurance industry (I hate it as much as you do) and can't stress the above information enough. If you don't get commercial coverage ( and it'll be through a. Specialty company probably. Livery services are almost impossible to underwrite properly, scaring away most big companies), then any claim that happens while operating will be denied. Start by getting quotes and go from there.
mtntopper
01-16-2018, 19:44
I wonder if an umbrella policy would work? I have a personal policy like this that covers alot. worth checking out if you accept donations.
You may need a special use authorization if you are operating a commercial business on forest service land.
You may need a special use authorization if you are operating a commercial business on forest service land.
Along with national park land...
To add to Gambit's list---
8----have plenty of Grateful Dead music to play for your riders......
Traveler
01-17-2018, 05:50
The Secretary of State website probably has some information and/or references to rules and regulations for various businesses along with how to start a legal business, what taxes are required (both business and sales tax to the end user), and other variables you may need to know.
Even if this is just a hobby interest, forming an LLC would be a good idea to help shield assets and allow access commercial insurance products. An LLC is not very expensive to set up and would be playing by the rules that responsible businesses play by.
Do not underestimate the value of proper insurance. Any commercial use of a vehicle insured under a typical personal insurance policy will likely render that policy void if there is an accident. Even if accepting "donations" for rides, if it can be demonstrated you do this routinely, that can be interpreted as commercial use and not only will insurance not pay a claim, it can expose you to legal problems with the State. That exposure could be financially devastating. A good independent insurance broker will be your best bet in this research and should be able to tell you if a special livery policy would be needed and if a standard business General Liability policy would be appropriate for you.
An Umbrella policy will not cover it. That just extends liability limits on your coverage. Commercial policy or nothing.
Also, donations don't change the rules. Your accepting money for a service.
Barricade
01-17-2018, 12:14
Does Ron still do shuttles? Ive been emailing him with no replies. :(
soumodeler
01-17-2018, 12:20
Ron Brown? Call him at 706-636-2825 or 706-669-0919
I have a follow up question for those in the know. Would signing up as an Uber or Lyft or whatever driver work to cover the legal and insurance aspect of shuttling hikers? I haven't used these services but from a distant observer it looks like it might be an option assuming Uber or Lyft go along with it.
Traveler
01-18-2018, 09:08
I have a follow up question for those in the know. Would signing up as an Uber or Lyft or whatever driver work to cover the legal and insurance aspect of shuttling hikers? I haven't used these services but from a distant observer it looks like it might be an option assuming Uber or Lyft go along with it.
As I understand the business model, Uber/Lyft drivers are independent contractors using their own vehicles to transport people and/or goods for fee. This is a commercial use and needs the proper insurance. You should probably contact Uber or Lyft directly to inquire about insurance as I do not believe non-employees can be covered by corporate insurance but here may be some exceptions.
Thefurther
01-18-2018, 09:48
I have a follow up question for those in the know. Would signing up as an Uber or Lyft or whatever driver work to cover the legal and insurance aspect of shuttling hikers? I haven't used these services but from a distant observer it looks like it might be an option assuming Uber or Lyft go along with it.
you would have to be driving for them at the time which translates to them taking 60 percent of your money . you have to buy commercial insurance to cover yourself . why would a company just let you drive off clock and make money for yourself on their policy without them pocketing any money ?
Old Grouse
01-18-2018, 10:19
As between creating an LLC and getting proper insurance, always get the insurance first. If your LLC is just you and your vehicle, any lawyer can "pierce the corporate (or LLC) veil," Plus the LLC won't protect you for your own negligence. If your LLC owns your car but you negligently crash it and injure your shuttle passenger, you can be personally on the hook as well as your LLC. In Connecticut the seminal case is Scribner vs O'Brien and I'm sure there are similar cases in other states. The three rules for small businesses like this are (1) get the insurance, (2) form an LLC, (3) get the insurance. And never skip rules (1) and (3).
glenlawson
01-18-2018, 10:56
A lot of good business advice here. I would also suggest getting to know the area. If you are going to shuttle, you need to know how to get from FS 42 to a paved road. And know which FS 42 and where the nearest paved road goes. Also know which roads are nearly impassable after 3 days of mountain valley rain. Learn how to get to the two Winding Stair gaps (one is on a US Hwy and one is on a FS dirt road) and all the places that have the same names or different names. Oh, and figure out where you can get a cell signal.
I would suggest volunteering for the first season. That may not take away the need to get extra insurance, you'll spend money on gas, and your car will be dirty, but it will help you decide if you like shuttling hikers and like driving on mountain dirt roads for hours
Seatbelt
01-18-2018, 13:42
Also don't forget the extra wear and tear on a vehicle. Constant driving on mountain backroads is much harder on a vehicle than driving elsewhere. I had a shuttle driver in GA last year tell me that a set of tires generally lasts 20k miles. Not to mention suspension and brakes and constant oil changes, etc.
Thefurther
01-18-2018, 13:55
that is about right .. i went through three sets this year . 10000 gs for repairs . broke two struts and mounts . broke inner tie rod on the right side . two sets of rotors , at least five brake changes cause they heat up so much from the mountains it crumbles them before they wear out , gaskets all around cause your engine gets so hot from doing 500 miles a day that they crumble , oil changes every week and having a permanent mechanic that will come when beckoned so you have to keep them happy . insurance is 8 gs a year just for liability on one car . i put 60 thousand miles on this year delivering 3000 thousand hikers to their destinations and i'm going to tell you it is probably one of the hardest jobs I've done . there is a lot more to it than getting into a vehicle and dropping off hikers . you cannot make money just doing a few hikers . you have to go all out to make money or just do it cause you love hikers and the mtns and be happy making a few extra bucks . Donald " grateful " ballard
Thefurther
01-18-2018, 14:25
oh yeah i did not add in the water pump , belts and pulleys , fuel injectors from getting bad gas at a gas station out in the middle of no where and it had water in it , new bushings all around and man the list goes on and on . the insurance is a pain in the ass also cause no big companies want to mess with little people so i had to search for awhile to find someone that would even look at us . it is hard to get it going but is completely possible if you are motivated and want it bad enough . i almost gave up last year cause i had struggled so hard to get everything lined up and my car just kept breaking and not knowing the roads and it was hard to get businesses to trust us so they would use us . i have seen in the last year numerous people come up and try doing this and realise it is not cut out for them . give it a shot and see what comes out of it . peace my friends Donald "grateful " ballard
Traveler
01-18-2018, 18:38
8k for commercial auto insurance seems a little high unless there are other insurance products bundled with that. Average commercial insurance in my area for similar work, like restaurants delivering food, is from $900 to $1,200 per year.
Thefurther
01-18-2018, 18:54
this is high risk delivering hikers on dirt roads and mtn roads . you are talking about delivering food ...
Traveler
01-18-2018, 19:12
this is high risk delivering hikers on dirt roads and mtn roads . you are talking about delivering food ...
I don't see much difference in food delivery on a daily basis in an urban environment with high traffic, but I'm not an actuary and don't know what the risk level is, what the death/injury level is, what the driving records are of paid drivers, etc. It just seems high given what similar business pays that are not seasonal.
Thefurther
01-18-2018, 21:36
the difference is i'm delivering people and not a pizza or Chinese food . food doesn't sue if you get in a accident people do . i do not do this seasonally either this is a year round gig for me . i'm not sure why a restaurant or delivering food or whatever you are comparing it to is the way it is . all i know is what and how it is for me in the state of ga . someone asked for info and i'm trying to help them on info and what my experience has been like here in Georgia . i'm not sure why you are saying this stuff but it is all good . peace my friend ...
Deer Hunter
01-19-2018, 21:12
Pm Whiteblaze member 10K. I believe he could give you some good information.
Its more of a passion & service and hiker community thing than income.
Definitely determine your drive distance limits.
Also make friends with the local AT club and other Shuttle Drivers within the area.
Advertise on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.
you would have to be driving for them at the time which translates to them taking 60 percent of your money . you have to buy commercial insurance to cover yourself . why would a company just let you drive off clock and make money for yourself on their policy without them pocketing any money ?
I checked the Uber website. You're covered by their insurance from the time you are assigned a ride until the ride is dropped off. This sounds like it removes the need to buy insurance beyond personal. No special drivers license required. As it sounds like one isn't making much money anyway, Uber sure makes it easy to start shuttling. The downside I see (and I might be missing something) is one cannot negotiate prices. The upside is one is guaranteed payment.
It looks like its at least worth checking into.
Uber gives you 50k in coverage per person. That's not enough when you're running a commercial operation. Say you run off of a mountain road with 4 hikers. You have coverage for only 50 per person and max 100 per accident. Two guys will have to suit you for losses. I know I can't afford to pay out someone's hospital bills. With all due respect, unless you have knowledge of insurance or shuttling, this is how people get misguided info on the Internet. Also, if you are at fault and don't carry commercial, then you are going to get denied coverage on your vehicle. So best case, your customer injuries are under 50000, but you now have no vehicle, ergo no way to keep driving.
This isn't rocket science guys. You can avoid paying commercial rates but you are literally gambling on being accident free every day.
End soap box.
peakbagger
01-20-2018, 11:46
There was an old timer in my area that used to do shuttles "for donations" . He lived in a cheap rent and I suspect lived off a SS. He did have a van. I never knew any one directly who used his services but heard second hand that he was insistent that the donation matched his expectations. I expect he had little or no assets so he could take the risk of an accident. Lawyers make darn sure when they are suing someone that there is way to extract dollars out of the deal.
I have heard of one gambit where the driver volunteers his time and vehicle but has the hiker fill the gas tank. I still expect it would be challenged by an insurance company if the payout was large.
Seems to me some have started this osrt of business by printing out business cards and handing them out to hikers. All they have to do is answer the phone, drive out and pick whoever up.
Some of the vehicles could not be in any way approved for commercial use.
Seems to me some have started this osrt of business by printing out business cards and handing them out to hikers. All they have to do is answer the phone, drive out and pick whoever up.
Some of the vehicles could not be in any way approved for commercial use.
Well sure any business can be started like that. You could theoretically shuttle for years and never get into trouble. Or you could get into an accident and lose everything you have worked your life for Insurance is all about mitigating your risk. Do a CBA and see where it shakes out.
By all means, get commercial insurance, and any permits required in your state/forest/NP. Unless you don't have any assets to lose in a lawsuit if you have a serious accident, in which case do so anyway to protect innocent passengers. If you file a claim and it's not a small amount of $$$, the insurance company will assign an investigator. They will uncover the fact that your were transporting people for money and thus it was a commercial transaction. They will NOT pay. They will also cancel your policy, claiming you obtained it fraudulently since you're not an individual--you are a business. Even if you get paid as a "donation" or "gas money."
By all means, clients (other than thru-hikers without a vehicle) should plan on meeting a shuttler wherever they plan to park -- and get shuttled to the start of the hike. Hiking back to one's vehicle eliminates the stress of keeping a very strict schedule to meet a shuttle driver at the end of a hike. So many things can happen during a multi-day hike to throw you ahead or behind your "schedule," and cell service in the woods is not something to be relied upon.
MuddyWaters
02-09-2018, 02:01
I think shuttling on the Appalachian Trail would be fun if I was retired and looking for a little extra income. Possibly some of it under the table tax free.
I don't know how "right " some of the people I've shuttled with were actually doing it, but many of the vehicles were total pieces of crap so it didn't look like they were getting rich. If they were they were hiding it well, very very well.
I don't think I would want a bunch of dirty smelly strangers getting into my good car all the time, so I'd expect I'd buy a well running POS also to shuttle with.
I think shuttling on the Appalachian Trail would be fun if I was retired and looking for a little extra income. Possibly some of it under the table tax free.
I don't know how "right " some of the people I've shuttled with were actually doing it, but many of the vehicles were total pieces of crap so it didn't look like they were getting rich. If they were they were hiding it well, very very well.
I don't think I would want a bunch of dirty smelly strangers getting into my good car all the time, so I'd expect I'd buy a well running POS also to shuttle with.
Most AT shuttlers have taken that approach in the past.
A newer "breed" of shuttle providers is starting to up their game. Maybe not with fancy new vehicles but with newer model, more reliable ones. And with all the required permits, commercial insurance, etc. to be legit. Unless they have a lot of volume throughout most of the year, someone has to pay for all that so their rates are going to be higher. Those that utilize more than one driver and vehicle have those expenses as well.