PDA

View Full Version : Does law require bear canister....



Khike
01-16-2018, 20:25
Hello, All. Do I have to have a bear canister for Springer to Neel's Gap? I heard a few years ago, it was a new law. Thanks for any reply. Kevin

Slo-go'en
01-16-2018, 20:39
A bear canister is required only if you camp ON Blood Mt or near it. The requirement is only for about 5 miles of trail and only if you overnight camp. To further complicate the issue, the requirement is only in the spring.

It's easy enough to avoid the "forbidden zone". There are campsites just before the climb up Blood Mt and is a better place to camp.

moldy
01-16-2018, 20:58
No, there is no such law or rule.

JERMM
01-16-2018, 21:00
from the Chattahoochee - Oconee NF Blue Ridge Ranger District


41595

Venchka
01-16-2018, 21:02
Hello, All. Do I have to have a bear canister for Springer to Neel's Gap? I heard a few years ago, it was a new law. Thanks for any reply. Kevin
Typical of misinformation one "hears" on the internet.
Wayne

Khike
01-16-2018, 21:08
Thanks guys. I read it here, about 5 yrs ago. Now I remember, for camping on Blood Mt. Thanks, appreciate ya'll. Gonna take a friend from Springer to Neel's Gap, in April. Wanna see some of the Thru Hikers starting. Might be interesting. Kevin

Time Zone
01-17-2018, 09:14
What do people here think of the trend in backcountry food storage regulations? I have a sense of inevitability about it, based on the 2015 requirement for hard-sided, non-pliable, commercially made canisters for Pisgah, Shining Rock, etc, and the AT recommendation (for throughout; not sure when that recommendation was issued). And of course, what looks like a model regulation (notice the consistency in wording) excludes the lighter and pack-friendly Ursack.

There's an irony about the Ursack exclusion, though, in that even the hard-sided cans have been defeated by clever bears (in some regions; perhaps not all). Perhaps it boils down to the commonly voiced concern about a "taste reward" by the bear who can chew and salivate on an Ursack, even without tearing it?

Anyway, just wondering what others think about the direction we're likely heading w/r/t food storage regs.

Thefurther
01-17-2018, 09:26
depends what time of year it is . as long as you walk through and not camp in bear canister restricted areas you are all good . there is a spot between woody and blood that you need one for spring but if you bee line it through and do not camp in restricted areas you are good to go . check the atc website for rules . they will have it all there for you and update the stuff daily or as it needs to be changed . peace my friends .. Donald " grateful " ballard .. the further shuttle Appalachian

LazyLightning
01-17-2018, 10:08
are these regulations because of bear problems/population in the area or other reasons?

I would imagine the population if greater on many other parts of the AT, odd to have this regulation for a few miles. I'll be sure to hike through this section.

Sarcasm the elf
01-17-2018, 10:09
What do people here think of the trend in backcountry food storage regulations? I have a sense of inevitability about it, based on the 2015 requirement for hard-sided, non-pliable, commercially made canisters for Pisgah, Shining Rock, etc, and the AT recommendation (for throughout; not sure when that recommendation was issued). And of course, what looks like a model regulation (notice the consistency in wording) excludes the lighter and pack-friendly Ursack.

There's an irony about the Ursack exclusion, though, in that even the hard-sided cans have been defeated by clever bears (in some regions; perhaps not all). Perhaps it boils down to the commonly voiced concern about a "taste reward" by the bear who can chew and salivate on an Ursack, even without tearing it?

Anyway, just wondering what others think about the direction we're likely heading w/r/t food storage regs.
It seems that nearly every storage method has been defeated under certain circumstances. Ursaks failed several times under certain circumstances during testing. Most bear canister brands also seem to have occasional problems with a single bear or small family of bears defeating them.

Personally I have been using a Bearvault for about a year after years of sleeping with my food and I've been happy with the switch. It really isn't much of an inconvenience and the extra 2lbs isn't going to make or break anyone's hike. Now when I get to camp I just take the canister out of my pack, set it down and forget about it until
I need it. It's probably the most convenient and laziest food storage method I've ever found.

As far as the regulations, yes they're coming and they won't be as bad as everyone makes them out to be.

Sarcasm the elf
01-17-2018, 10:13
are these regulations because of bear problems/population in the area or other reasons?

I would imagine the population if greater on many other parts of the AT, odd to have this regulation for a few miles. I'll be sure to hike through this section.

It's because of human crowding and piss poor food storage techniques used by inexperienced campers.

Jester made the graphic below on his 2015 hike, which is a good example of why Georgia has so many problems with habituated bears.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nYzmdbplAMk/VhAmHqGtK-I/AAAAAAAAAiU/ZZ6wknqSP4M/s1600/Crappy%2BBear%2BBags%2B2015%2BFinal.jpg

putts
01-17-2018, 10:29
extra 2lbs isn't going to make or break anyone's hike.

Wholeheartedly agree, but the masses will scoff.

LazyLightning
01-17-2018, 10:29
haha I like the yellow one.

Gotta admit I have done a poor hang or 2 just to get it away from the tent and off the ground... but that's from setting up in the middle of the night and not finding a decent hang with the headlamp. Also not on the AT and only out for a couple nights so I wouldn't have been totally screwed if something did eat my food.

Thefurther
01-17-2018, 10:35
are these regulations because of bear problems/population in the area or other reasons?

I would imagine the population if greater on many other parts of the AT, odd to have this regulation for a few miles. I'll be sure to hike through this section.

i run into bears out here at least twice a week . higtower gap is right near a fish hatchery and is prime fishing area . that plus campers / hikers and tourist that just do not care throw their garbage out and brings all sorts of animals around to scavenge . once they know there might be food there they will come back and check it out over and over again .also , the thing about the trail in Georgia the trail is not a isolated area like people think it is . there is a house somewhere within spitting distance pretty much all the way up to the border . bears love to scavenge through trash and will take a 20 miles in radius area and claim it as long as they can score some food . they picked a bear off down at springer this year . it was snatching packs and running with them so usfs went down and took that poor bear out . anyways , sorry if that was confusing .. usually i would be working but shuttles are slow right now so i'm sitting on white blaze keyboarding it until the weather breaks ... peace my friends .. Donald " grateful " ballard the further shuttle Appalachian Blairsville , Georgia

Time Zone
01-17-2018, 11:28
... the extra 2lbs isn't going to make or break anyone's hike.

Funny how if it was for any other purpose (such as a better-carrying pack, a sleeping bag that actually keeps you warm, etc.), "2 extra pounds" would elicit scoffs of disdain from some quarters.

glenlawson
01-17-2018, 12:27
are these regulations because of bear problems/population in the area or other reasons? I would imagine the population if greater on many other parts of the AT, odd to have this regulation for a few miles. I'll be sure to hike through this section.

Vogel State Park is just down the mountain from this section. The regulation ends on June 1st because that is when the campground reliably fills up for the summer. The bears move down to the campground to feast on what the campers leave out. The bears are so accustomed to getting food from people that they became a problem on the trail. I'd like to see the campgrounds in the mountains install bear boxes with the requirement that food goes in the box each night.

These regulations aren't about inconveniencing humans, but keeping bears alive. Relocating a bear doesn't really work so a fed bear becomes a dead bear.

rubyvermonter
01-17-2018, 13:06
A year or two ago, a hiker on this list serve asked, "Do I really need a bear canister if I am going to camp near Blood Mountain?" He received many responses. Then the fellow posted a few days later, rather frantically, that although he had hung his food, a bear had gotten it all in the middle of the night. Better be safe than sorry.

Sarcasm the elf
01-17-2018, 13:58
Funny how if it was for any other purpose (such as a better-carrying pack, a sleeping bag that actually keeps you warm, etc.), "2 extra pounds" would elicit scoffs of disdain from some quarters.

Plenty of people scoff at the idea of being required to carry a canister as well and I can certainly sympathize with their aggravation. My point is just that once you get used to it, it really isn't that bad and has some advantages in and of itself.

Time Zone
01-17-2018, 17:03
I'd like to see the campgrounds in the mountains install bear boxes with the requirement that food goes in the box each night.


Last year, I was in Western NC @ Lake James State Park (not too far from Linville Gorge, I think), at a frontcountry campground (tent only!), and they had a latching steel cabinet at each tent site, for food/smellables. Seems like a good idea.

Time Zone
01-17-2018, 17:52
Plenty of people scoff at the idea of being required to carry a canister as well and I can certainly sympathize with their aggravation. My point is just that once you get used to it, it really isn't that bad and has some advantages in and of itself.

Even though I'm not a UL-er, I don't relish the idea of adding 2 lbs to my load that wasn't already there. In another thread, someone mentioned maybe not thinking of those cans as taking up so much space in the pack, when you can pack more than just food and smellables in your bear can (and remove them upon setting up camp). The idea being, don't pack an empty can, esp. as you eat your food supplies down. In theory, the can then only takes up the displacement of the plastic itself, and does not create a big void in your pack.

My initial thought was, well, then everything you pack in there will smell like your food and toothpaste. But upon reflection, that concern might be overblown. First, you can double-bag or op-sack your food, so even within the can it may not smell so much. Second, you and the clothes you wear are going to smell a bit like your food and toothpaste anyway, by virtue of cooking, eating, cleaning up, etc. So making use of the empty space in a bear canister isn't necessarily going to make things that much smellier. Third, the extra stuff you pack in the canister, you can make it stuff that doesn't take on scents as easily or as long, like your cookset, or other gear (as opposed to, say, clothing).

Just thinking out loud here. Does this seem reasonable? Is this how people pack and use bear canisters?

scope
01-17-2018, 19:35
For the life of me, I don't know why its only that section still. That section has had that regulation for a long while now, but bears are consistently found on the other side of the road near Wolf Laurel Top. Perhaps the ones on the other side of the road are more well behaved? LOL

Sarcasm the elf
01-17-2018, 21:38
For the life of me, I don't know why its only that section still. That section has had that regulation for a long while now, but bears are consistently found on the other side of the road near Wolf Laurel Top. Perhaps the ones on the other side of the road are more well behaved? LOL
Other members of this site have speculated that requiring a canister in order to overnight on Blood mountain is a roundabout way of reducing the number of campers and amount of overuse that this popular spot gets without resorting quotas or a permit system. That seems plausable to me.

ChuckP
01-17-2018, 21:57
A couple of thoughts on this:

this past autumn my wife and I did an out and back from Tesnatee Gap to Neels Gap. On the return journey we met a guy who was camping near Wolf Laurel Top. He was walking to Neel's to get some food: he claimed that a bear (or someone/thing else) had made off with his canister. We found that pretty ironic.

My wife and I also did an out and back overnighter from Amicalola to Springer just after this past Christmas. We were the only ones at Springer shelter/campground complex (amazing!). The GA ATC has installed bear boxes there and a notice indicated that they have installed bear boxes at all the non-wilderness shelters in GA. I actually think this is a good idea. Of course there was also a note imploring people not put their garbage in the box. So what did we find when we went to store our food for the night? You guessed it.

Rain Man
01-17-2018, 23:52
I hiked the Art Loeb Trail a couple of years ago. Bear canisters were (and are) required in the Shining Rick Wilderness portion. There was even a volunteer "ranger" at the parking lot off the Blue Ridge Parkway informing everyone.

Nonetheless, two groups hiked in without canisters the night we were there. One or more bears got all the food bags of those two groups.

Those the-rules-are-for-lesser-mortals a**holes not only endangered all of us, plus hikers coming later, but probably got a bear or two killed.

Highland Goat
01-18-2018, 06:49
On the weight question, has anyone played with the carbon fiber bear canisters yet?

AllDownhillFromHere
01-18-2018, 08:02
CF seems awfully pricey for the weight delta. I think you're looking at an extra $220 to save 7 oz.

colorado_rob
01-18-2018, 11:06
On the weight question, has anyone played with the carbon fiber bear canisters yet?We have, we pulled the trigger a couple years ago on one (wild ideas weekender), their use is becoming more and more required in CO as well, do the math and it's not that bad..... 31 ounces for the bear canister vs. 5-6 minimum for a food bag and cord setup, so 25 net ounces for complete piece of mind is a lot of ounces, but the canister does double as a camp "chair" and fits in the top of our packs nicely. We still don't carry it when not required most of the time, but occasionally do. The rest of our kit is so light, we may just start carrying it all the time in any bear country. Then there's the rodents..... again, nice to have complete piece of mind.

Digger'02
01-18-2018, 12:08
For the life of me, I don't know why its only that section still. That section has had that regulation for a long while now, but bears are consistently found on the other side of the road near Wolf Laurel Top. Perhaps the ones on the other side of the road are more well behaved? LOL

I was part of the decision team that developed this regulation. The reason that it's just for this particular section is because there was a time when this section had a seasonal closure to camping due to bear activity. We negotiated the release of this closure and the terms were that overnight visitors were required to carry a personal food storage device. So, short answer: it goes back to a boundary established in a previous decision.

Sarcasm is correct overall: Bear Can requirements are likely coming, they won't be the end of the world.

Berserker
01-19-2018, 13:07
Good discussion going on in this thread. I didn't realize some of the areas I used to frequent (such as Shining Rock) now have a requirement to carry bear canisters. It sure makes sense in that I have hiked a lot of the Wilderness areas in NC, and people have historically been very messy there. Lots of trash in fire pits, trashed campsites, etc.

Me personally I don't care either way if canisters become required or not. I have one (Wild Ideas Weekender) that I purchased for my 2013 JMT thru, and I have used it off and on throughout my AT sectioning journey. One thing I can say is that it gives piece of mind, and that in and of itself is worth the extra weight. Also, as mentioned by others it makes a great camp chair, which for me is not insignificant as I normally just sit on the ground.

One thing of historical interest related to the OPs post is that I hiked the GA section in 2008, and there was a problem bear up on Blood Mountain that year (he actually harassed me at the Slaughter Creek tentsites in the middle of the night, and I found out he had gotten someone's food from the Blood Mountain shelter the next morning). I kind of kept up with it, and there was a post on here (I think) where they think a hunter finally got the guy the next year. Anyway, it was maybe a year or two after (so perhaps 2010), when this regulation to carry a bear can if camping in the 5 mile stretch became a requirement. Since then there has been a lot of confusion over it.

Mags
01-20-2018, 17:28
I suspect bear canisters will be required in more and more areas as the years go on. As much as I think Ursaks and other methods are better overall in some ways, I also recognize that the bear canisters are far easier and less prone to failure versus other methods. I don't mind the weight as much as the bulk of the canister.

So it goes. Cutting down boughs for bedding is a practice the few (any?) of us were alive to make use of in the day on a regular basis, we don't bury our trash anymore, more parks are requiring people to pack out TP, backcountry campfires are becoming more and more a relic of the past, and when I get my backcountry permits I am often asked if I have a GPS in addition to a map and compass.

All things change. Our practices, our outdoors culture, and even the gear that is considered important versus 20, 10, or even five years ago.

And taking a bear canister is a part of this change many of us will have to get used to in the years ahead.

Venchka
01-20-2018, 20:08
I suspect bear canisters will be required in more and more areas as the years go on. As much as I think Ursaks and other methods are better overall in some ways, I also recognize that the bear canisters are far easier and less prone to failure versus other methods. I don't mind the weight as much as the bulk of the canister.

So it goes. Cutting down boughs for bedding is a practice the few (any?) of us were alive to make use of in the day on a regular basis, we don't bury our trash anymore, more parks are requiring people to pack out TP, backcountry campfires are becoming more and more a relic of the past, and when I get my backcountry permits I am often asked if I have a GPS in addition to a map and compass.

All things change. Our practices, our outdoors culture, and even the gear that is considered important versus 20, 10, or even five years ago.

And taking a bear canister is a part of this change many of us will have to get used to in the years ahead.

Alas, some folks seem to be going too far in the direction of SUL, (Stupid Ultra Light), for their own good.
Wayne

Wyoming
01-30-2018, 18:54
One of the funny thing about bear canisters on places like the PCT is that most everyone starts out from Kennedy Meadows or Lone Pine with more food than a canister will actually hold. So in a way it is kind of pointless.

Maybe I eat too much but I can't fit 5 days of food in a full size bear canister.

Another Kevin
01-30-2018, 18:59
One of the funny thing about bear canisters on places like the PCT is that most everyone starts out from Kennedy Meadows or Lone Pine with more food than a canister will actually hold. So in a way it is kind of pointless.

Maybe I eat too much but I can't fit 5 days of food in a full size bear canister.

It can be tight, you're right.

Remember that your first day's lunch, dinner and snacks don't have to fit, because you'll eat them before you need to stash the canister.

But yeah, it can be tight.