What The Hell!!!

[wordstew]

I was quite surprised that as a Veteran I didn't get into a National Park for free or a discounted rate. However I dealt with it, but now this.....

"17 of the most popular national parks could soon become an unaffordable luxury to lower-income Americans if the National Park Service (NPS) implements a pricing system that would raise admission from around $30 per vehicle to $70 per vehicle during peak season. Other proposed fees include $50 per motorcycle, $30 for a person on bike or foot and $75 for an annual pass to a specific park."

[Gambit McCrae]

$75 for annual pass seems like the way to go :)

I personally don't see anything wrong with it...Parks are underfunded as it is, why not let the people that go and enjoy it help pickup some of the expenses, while at the same time cut down on the population going to the park for less of an impact.

[illabelle]

Seems pretty steep, especially if that $75 annual pass is only for one park. I'm soooooo glad the citizens of TN/NC thought ahead to prevent that sort of thing from happening to the Smokies.

[Old Grouse]

When you get old enough, buy a lifetime senior pass. It'll save you some money.

[ldsailor]

When you get old enough, buy a lifetime senior pass. It'll save you some money.

Uh, uh. It's now $80. I bought mine last year before the prices went up. The senior pass cost $10 then. Nothing is cheap anymore except the air we breathe

[HooKooDooKu]

Seems pretty steep, especially if that $75 annual pass is only for one park. I'm soooooo glad the citizens of TN/NC thought ahead to prevent that sort of thing from happening to the Smokies.
It was only TN, and actually it only applies to free access to New Found Gap road. The road was constructed by TN & NC before the park was established. NC deeded the road via abandonment, but TN deeded the road to the national park with a stipulation that access to the road would be free (unless authorized by the TN state legislature). So if they wanted, they could charge for access to the park so long as access to the road remained free. Obviously because of the restrictions for access to the road, it would be problematic (but not impossible) to charge an entrance fee to GSMNP.

[Feral Bill]

Why should we veterans get a price break? I never even thought of asking. The senior pass is nice though, now that I am an old guy. Hard to justify that, either.

[perdidochas]

$75 for annual pass seems like the way to go :)

I personally don't see anything wrong with it...Parks are underfunded as it is, why not let the people that go and enjoy it help pickup some of the expenses, while at the same time cut down on the population going to the park for less of an impact.

The best deal is $80 for an annual pass for ALL parks.

https://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/fees.htm

[jefals]

Hey I like that senior pass. A lot of the seniors may have been so busy during the working years, they never had the chance to enjoy these places.
But I think veterans should be at the top of the list for free access. Without our vets there wouldn't be any national parks - there wouldn't even be a nation.

[Lone Wolf]

Why should we veterans get a price break? I never even thought of asking. The senior pass is nice though, now that I am an old guy. Hard to justify that, either.

exactly. i volunteered for the Marine Corps. i never ask for discounts

[jjozgrunt]

I bought the $80 annual last year, but that was as a tourist and we got our value for money by visiting 7 NPs while we were in the west. I actually wish they would do it in every state here, as our NPs are so underfunded. Yours had fantastic facilities compared to Australia.

[rocketsocks]

Personally I don’t think we should pay a thing, just my opinion.

[colorado_rob]

Yeah, bummer that the lifetime senior pass went from $10 to $80, but still, what a deal! 4 more months, and I get it. Plus for the younger folks, really, $80 for an annual pass is a darn good deal. Works at nearly all NPS sites, including monuments, historical parks, beaches, much more than just the 60 national parks. There are a few NPS sites that do NOT honor the annual pass.

Enjoy! We're up to 45 national parks visited, working on finishing in a couple years. Big trip to Alaska required....

[Slo-go'en]

How much of that new money actually gets put back into the parks? I'd wager not much. I did pick up a $10 senior pass just before the price jump, on the off chance I might eventually do that wild west tour.

[colorado_rob]

How much of that new money actually gets put back into the parks? I'd wager not much. I did pick up a $10 senior pass just before the price jump, on the off chance I might eventually do that wild west tour.Almost all returns to the park where collected, according to the NPS, that is:

https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2010/02/entrance-fees-generate-hundreds-millions-dollars-year-national-park-service5360

[Traveler]

The NPS maintains a majority of monies generated by entry fees into National Parks stay with the agency. In 2016 the NPS collected $200 million from 118 out of 417 parks that charge an admission fee, which is used throughout the NPS system.

[rhjanes]

I got the wife the $10 deal last year before it went up. When I qualify, it will HOPEFULLY still be at the $80.

[SoaknWet]

I am extremely Proud of how our Country honors the Vets today, I got out in 68, be I can't help to think this veteran discount has been beat into the ground! Insurance discounts, special loan rates and the list goes on. I'd would have been tickled to death with a handshake in 1968!

[gpburdelljr]

Personally I don’t think we should pay a thing, just my opinion.

Convince the politicians to provide more funding for the parks.

[TwoSpirits]

Our National Parks are a treasure, and I would like to keep them that way. Actually, I'd like to see several/many/most/all get some long overdue repairs and improvements. They all require a great deal of work (read as: man hours and materials) just to maintain the status quo, which isn't great. The cost of everything else in our world keeps rising, yet we expect our national parks to do their thing on a budget that was insufficient even 20 years ago.

Where is this money going to come from?

And with my sincerest respect to all of our military vets, I have to say that there are many, many other people who serve our country just as selflessly and faithfully, for the good of their communities and by extension the good of the nation -- firefighters, law enforcement, nurses, teachers, and yes even government employees. With the exception of our seniors citizens, our elders, I don't see any reason for any group to be given preferential treatment.

My two cents.

[rickb]

My opinion is that everyone should have to pay the same admission as that charged by Smithsonian, Central Park, and the Boston Public Library — and not a penny more.

The National Parks are not simply an attraction, but a part of who we are.

A perk for living in (and supporting) one of greatest nations in history, I should think.

[George]

wanted: one person 62 or older to drive me around to parks and get me in

apply here....

[rickb]

wanted: one person 62 or older to drive me around to parks and get me in
apply here....

For a while you could get in with a 4th grader.

Not sure if they are still doing that.

[Dogwood]

... Nothing is cheap anymore except the air we breathe


Shh, some tycoon might seek to commoditize that soon.

[Dogwood]

The best deal is $80 for an annual pass for ALL parks.

https://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/fees.htm


There you go! One car load of kids and family that visits two or more NP's/yr and the Annual Pass is worth it.

[Dogwood]

I avoid the expense by walking into the parks, where rangers don't roam. When asked for a permit, and it's never happened yet---not on the PCT, the CDT, the AT, or even on the six-park Hayduke---I would simply reply that I'm merely doing a day hike. Of course, this doesn't solve the issue of wanting to take your family into the park, unless they too are capable of going somewhere under their own power.


Or, walk in paying a walk in fee or bike in paying a bike in fee which has always been way cost friendlier than driving into NP's a car. It is the car that costs more...and it should! Tipi Walter would agree with me. :D Or, take a shuttle or bus into the NP which not includes shuttle but entrance fees. Or, legally hitch just outside the NP willing to chip in for a reduced group in the car discount; I've done all many times. I'm yet to pay a $30 NP entrance fee. Uh umm hope I don't future post about my first time doing so. Eek.

[Venchka]

The NP Geezer Pass is nice.
The extra benefit: 50% discounts in National Park and National Forest Campgrounds. Sweet.
Wayne

[Coffee]

As a backpacker who doesn't own a car, I won't soon be paying these fees but I'm cognizant of the fact that our parks need political support from ordinary folks to be sustainable over time. Price them out and make the parks a preserve for yuppified millennial craft beer drinking loft living unicycle riding hipsters and see support for open spaces and wilderness plummet.

[blw2]

For a while you could get in with a 4th grader.

Not sure if they are still doing that.

Yeah, we went to Grand Canyon over the summer. Sadly my 4th grader was a rising 4th...... she's in the 4th now and didn't qualify for it the summer before the 4th. Apparently it's something they have to get form the school while IN the 4th grade....also not something you can just go do at the ranger station.
We bought the annual pass so we are good till next summer.... We ended up using it at several parks on the trip, and more recently to camp on Cumberland Island National Seashore.

[illabelle]

Personally I don’t think we should pay a thing, just my opinion.

Agree. Why should we pay to walk on our own land?

[Coffee]

Agree. Why should we pay to walk on our own land?
Exactly. It is like roads that were publicly funded when constructed and then turned into toll roads later at outrageous prices. Furthermore, perhaps the solution is to not "improve" our public lands to the point where they require so much upkeep and maintenance every year. If our public lands were retained in their natural condition with fewer improvements, there would be less need for ongoing expenses. It is like choosing to live in a 700 square foot cabin vs a 8,000 sq foot McMansion. Parks need to appeal to enough people to retain political support so there have to be some limited facilities but do we really need places like Yosemite Valley and Grand Canyon south rim scale amenities?

[illabelle]

Exactly. It is like roads that were publicly funded when constructed and then turned into toll roads later at outrageous prices. Furthermore, perhaps the solution is to not "improve" our public lands to the point where they require so much upkeep and maintenance every year. If our public lands were retained in their natural condition with fewer improvements, there would be less need for ongoing expenses. It is like choosing to live in a 700 square foot cabin vs a 8,000 sq foot McMansion. Parks need to appeal to enough people to retain political support so there have to be some limited facilities but do we really need places like Yosemite Valley and Grand Canyon south rim scale amenities?

I nominate you and Tipi to write NPS policy.

[colorado_rob]

The NP Geezer Pass is nice.
The extra benefit: 50% discounts in National Park and National Forest Campgrounds. Sweet.
WayneYeah, forgot about this one.... sweet. There are many NP's with absolutely stunning campsites, just make sure to reserve in advance when possible (many are first-come) A few of particular note: Joshua Tree NP, Arches NP and Canyonlands NP; their drive-up campsites all have little private alcoves nestled in the Red Rocks.

Sad how many folks are so down on our spectacular NP system. And at $80/year for the many hundreds of sites to visit, it really is only a tad more expensive than our also-spectacular Smithsonian system in DC. Why do such a high percentage of folks who live in the east, even those with a love of the great outdoors like most of us on WB, never travel out of it? You're missing out, folks.

[wayside_mn]

Uh, uh. It's now $80. I bought mine last year before the prices went up. The senior pass cost $10 then. Nothing is cheap anymore except the air we breathe

How old you gotta be?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[colorado_rob]

How old you gotta be?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMust be 62

[wayside_mn]

The be got a couple years to go. Bummer. Hope they dont make that too expensive by then.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JPritch]

Personally I don’t think we should pay a thing, just my opinion.

Damn right. The federal gov't taxes us enough. So do the states, and our local municipalities. We should be speaking up about how the gov't spends our money instead of handing more over to them out of some sense of obligation or civic duty.

[hobbs]

So to the OP who started this thread...Why do you think you have a special privaledge over other citizens if your a veteran? Yeah explain it to me Barney style so I can understand your mind...

[colorado_rob]

So to the OP who started this thread...Why do you think you have a special privaledge over other citizens if your a veteran? Yeah explain it to me Barney style so I can understand your mind...
Veterans and active duty military have all sort of very well deserved privileges all over the US. I, for one, think free National Park entry for these fine folks is appropriate.

[saltysack]

I nominate you and Tipi to write NPS policy.

Better yet....PRESIDENT!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hobbs]

Veterans and active duty military have all sort of very well deserved privileges all over the US. I, for one, think free National Park entry for these fine folks is appropriate.

Active duty personel do infact get discounts or a free pass..But why should a veteran? Sorry don't see it...Not trying to start an argument with you..But the OP can bite me...

[colorado_rob]

Active duty personel do infact get discounts or a free pass..But why should a veteran? Sorry don't see it...Not trying to start an argument with you..But the OP can bite me... The answer to why veterans are so precious and important, is so obvious, do I even have to say it? The mind boggles.

[Feral Bill]

Better yet....PRESIDENT!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I can picture the secret service following him through the snow for weeks on end.

[hobbs]

The answer to why veterans are so precious and important, is so obvious, do I even have to say it? The mind boggles.

So I have to ask this are you a Veteran and feel your above any other citizen here because you served?

[FreeGoldRush]

I was quite surprised that as a Veteran I didn't get into a National Park for free or a discounted rate. However I dealt with it, but now this.....
We are all very fortunate that you served. But listen to how childish that sounds. You need to understand that MANY Americans have sacrificed and served America, not just our war heros. We don't act surprised because we aren't treated special and given things for free. No one ever asks me where or how I served America. They never offer me anything for my service. They never thank me. And I never ask for anything for free or expect it. The entitlement culture with our military is way over the top and it's insulting.

if someone offers you something for free because of your military service, then smile and say thank you. That's the way the rest of us live.

[TexasBob]

I got the wife the $10 deal last year before it went up. When I qualify, it will HOPEFULLY still be at the $80.

A senior pass allows up to 4 people per car so you don't need one if your wife already has one.

[wordstew]

So to the OP who started this thread...Why do you think you have a special privaledge over other citizens if your a veteran? Yeah explain it to me Barney style so I can understand your mind...

As the OP let me elaborate a little.... I usually don't solicit or expect any type of courtesy, veterans discounts or special treatment however I do appreciate when it is offered.
As a Park Ranger put it to me and a group us hiking all of whom happened to be Vets "It's just wrong that Vets get charged just to walk in"
We didn't solicit a discount, the fact we were all Vets came up spontaneously as we were entering the park during a conversation with a very personable Ranger.
Most Vets do not retire with a pension from the military and given how the government squanders much of our hard earned tax dollars to much less deserving causes one could make a pretty strong argument that Veterans (among others) should get a break on entrance fees.
I personally can afford the fees but IMHO if a Veteran is of limited means he/she should never be barred from entrance to our great National Parks because of the dollars or lack there of in his pockets.

[illabelle]

I can picture the secret service following him through the snow for weeks on end.

There was a dumb little TV show last year called "Hunted." In it, two-person teams are given an hour's head start to hide within a multi-state region for 28 days. After that hour, a team of LEO-types hunts them down using everything they've got - dog teams, automatic tag readers, internet surveillance, monitoring calls of family & friends.

Of course it was all contrived, but it was kinda fun to imagine them going after Tipi. He would just sit out there in the woods for a month marking days on a calendar until it was over.

[colorado_rob]

So I have to ask this are you a Veteran and feel your above any other citizen here because you served? I am not a veteran, but have the highest respect for those that have served and sacrificed. My God, even with all our great country's extreme divisiveness, I have never come across anyone on "either" side that didn't have this great respect.

And thank doG for the ignore button on these forms!

[rhjanes]

A senior pass allows up to 4 people per car so you don't need one if your wife already has one.TY, good to know. I'll still get one at 62 as I expect to be visiting parks on my own.

[gpburdelljr]

A veteran is anyone that has served in the military. They may have served as little as a 2 year enlistment, or a lifetime. They may, or may not, have served in combat zones. The government currently sees fit to offer free passes for disabled veterans, and active military members. I agree with this, but I don’t think someone that served two years working in an office should get a free pass, just because they are technically a veteran.

[Old Grouse]

A senior pass allows up to 4 people per car so you don't need one if your wife already has one.
Yeah, but she has to be with you. I hope that's a good thing!

[BillyGr]

A senior pass allows up to 4 people per car so you don't need one if your wife already has one.

Actually to be more precise, it allows the car and anyone in it (so long as the passholder is one of those in it) to enter where fees are charged by the vehicle (so if you had a van it could be more than 4 people) and up to 4 adults where the fees are charged by the person (often occurs more at historic sites than parks).

[blw2]

Veterans and active duty military have all sort of very well deserved privileges all over the US. I, for one, think free National Park entry for these fine folks is appropriate.
I agree. I think that there are limitations for sure though, and I'm careful to not get too caught up in the idea that if a person served they just get a free house, free groceries and free cars the rest of their lives thing.... I remember some thing coming up on our ballot some time ago about taxes for vets.... that struck me along those lines...
But the fact is that most military are way underpaid while they serve and many sacrifice more than most of us could ever even begin to understand. I for one am thankful to them. Even the ones that are not active duty and not retired.....that seems like a huge segment of the population that get very few perks.... oh and their spouses too.

[rhjanes]

I was on a river canoe trip with a retired buddy who already had his "lifetime NPS Pass". We pulled into a National Camp site along the river. Just to check it out, take a break, pee someplace besides on a tree. We'd not planned to stop there and figured we'd get a few more miles down river. We came out of the men's room and the Park Host was sitting there. He struck up a conversation with us about how the river was, how far we'd gone, was surprised to hear how far downriver we were going...then pulled up his phone with a Weather Radar on it and said "you might want to consider staying here tonight". There was a STORM on the way, tornado's included. My buddy pulled his pass and said "sign us up for a campsite!" Worth it right there!! The park host spent the next 3 hours trying to convince people to NOT stay down on that river that night!
Anyway, well worth the cost.

[perdidochas]

My opinion is that everyone should have to pay the same admission as that charged by Smithsonian, Central Park, and the Boston Public Library — and not a penny more.

The National Parks are not simply an attraction, but a part of who we are.

A perk for living in (and supporting) one of greatest nations in history, I should think.

I disagree totally. The national parks would be overrun by slobs. That's why I go to a National seashore when I go to the beach instead of the public beach. Having to pay gets rid of the worst sort of riff-raff.

[Lone Wolf]

I disagree totally. The national parks would be overrun by slobs.
yeah. imagine a rainbow gathering at big meadows in SNP

[wordstew]

The big issue in question is will the National Parks be affordable to average folks if the price increases are implemented...

The other question is should Veterans get free admission or a discounted rate/pass...

[FreeGoldRush]

The big issue in question is will the National Parks be affordable to average folks if the price increases are implemented... The other question is should Veterans get free admission or a discounted rate/pass...
Where does "I get mine free because I'm special" stop? Because it's not just military guys that whine. They just happen to be the favored political group. It's currently popular to show your respect by expecting OTHERS to give them things for free. That's an odd way to show respect.

Should I carry his pack for him too?

To answer your question: Tax revenues should be spent on services for the taxpayer, not the tax collectors. If people will insist on that change then there is plenty of funding to let us all in the parks without an additional entrance fee.

[Christoph]

I was quite surprised that as a Veteran I didn't get into a National Park for free or a discounted rate. However I dealt with it, but now this.....


As a vet myself I usually ask, but is NEVER excpected. Maybe I read the OP wrong? Never expect anything, humbly take what they give.

[rocketsocks]

Funds for fun failed.

[wordstew]

[QUOTE=FreeGoldRush;2189438]Where does "I get mine free because I'm special" stop? Because it's not just military guys that whine. They just happen to be the favored political group. It's currently popular to show your respect by expecting OTHERS to give them things for free. That's an odd way to show respect.

Respectfully I think you're way off base equating "military guys" as whiners that just happen to be a favored political group.

The gist of my post was really about the raising of Park entrance fees and that it could possibly price out lower income folks (including some Vets)

I did post that I was surprised that Vets don't get free entrance or a price break to our National Parks. I would think that our National Parks would be one of the most appropriate places for that to occur....But that's just my opinion.

Tomato-Tomaato we see things a little differently

[wordstew]

If you're reading these posts the article linked below might be of interest to you"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/price-hike-make-national-parks-look-like-exclusive-club-resigning-nps-board-member-says-165942641.html

[goatee]

As a vet I understand how some on here feel that being a veteran is not a big deal,you have that right to express your opinions as vets gave you that right.Do not lump all or most vets as whinners as that shows your ignorance.I ask nothing of my country or countrymen other then you do owe respect too the fallen.For those who have been no where and done nothing I'm sorry. (crash)
Is this really the place to complain about veterans?

Mike Elliott-Nam combat vet

[FreeGoldRush]

Respectfully I think you're way off base equating "military guys" as whiners that just happen to be a favored political group.
Many whine expecting free things. That's just been my experience. I was angrily lectured once by a vet about how he is privileged. It's hard to blame them because Americans have led them to believe they deserve all sorts of things others don't get.

I really do appreciate their military service.

And I do agree that national park entrance fees would be a natural place to give them a break. But if you consider why any of us pay fees at those places you come to a sad realization.

[FreeGoldRush]

When they express their absurd sense of privilege, then yes, it is appropriate. They are good people but sometimes, like any of us, they step over the line and become insulting.

[SoaknWet]

There it is!!! I am better than you because I can afford it!!! That makes you riff-raff or a slob so you don't deserve what nature or God made! Some of the biggest slobs I have had to clean up after are the ones in the $500,000.00 RVs! Very seldom did I have to clean up after that family with the 4 kids in a tent! Who defines who is entitled or riff-raff?

[FreeGoldRush]

As a vet I understand how some on here feel that being a veteran is not a big deal
No one said anything like that. Good try.

[zelph]

The majority of cars entering the parks carry families. The majority of the families have parents that are veterans. The majority of visitors would then have to be admitted free??? The funding needs to come from those families that are using the facilities. Everyone needs to participate in paying a fee. Veterans included.

The parks do their best to get volunteer hosts and paid attendants but fall short on people that want to do that lifestyle. Dealing with the public takes a certain skill that determines whether or not the visitors will have a pleasant visit.

There are a lot of costly logistics involved with maintaining the parks. Traffic control, security etc.

Traffic at National Parkshttps://www.google.com/search?q=traffic+at+national+parks&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS721US721&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_p_Ds3ebYAhUBbKwKHaqfBV4Q_AUIDCgD&biw=1245&bih=556https://parkplanning.nps.gov/projectHome.cfm?projectID=59437

[goatee]

FreeGoldRush did you even read my post? Yes some vets expect special treatment some don't. Good try

[FreeGoldRush]

There it is!!! I am better than you because I can afford it!!! That makes you riff-raff or a slob so you don't deserve what nature or God made! Some of the biggest slobs I have had to clean up after are the ones in the $500,000.00 RVs! Very seldom did I have to clean up after that family with the 4 kids in a tent! Who defines who is entitled or riff-raff?
$500k RVs are almost exclusively used by retired couples. These are the neatest and cleanest people in campgrounds. And I have stayed in hundreds of private campgrounds. Wealthy people who are younger rarely enter a campground.

[SoaknWet]

Well sir, you may be right for your world but how much time have YOU spent in a campgrounds? I ran a campground for close to 5 years and had the pleasure of having a beer with "Charlie Daniels" who got to town late and couldn't find the Fairgrounds they were looking for. Point is regardless when tired people park/camp wherever space is available. Get on your local Interstate and see how many big RVs are parked at the rest areas or even Walmart parking lots. I speak from experience not wishful thinking.

[TexasBob]

As a vet myself I usually ask, but is NEVER excpected. Maybe I read the OP wrong? Never expect anything, humbly take what they give.

What puzzles me is why do I get a discount as a reward for getting old but you don't get a discount as a reward for serving to protect us all? I think you deserve it more than I do.

[FreeGoldRush]

What puzzles me is why do I get a discount as a reward for getting old but you don't get a discount as a reward for serving to protect us all? I think you deserve it more than I do.
Exactly correct. So let's please stop the nonsense of trying to decide who is more special. Ask for no handouts. Show respect with "thank you" or by offering help when appropriate. Showing respect by deciding when someone else should offer something for free is bizarre.

[FreeGoldRush]

Well sir, you may be right for your world but how much time have YOU spent in a campgrounds?

In total? Years. We spend months each and every year in campgrounds all over North America. It adds up to years. I can assure you that the $500k RVs you refer to are almost exclusively retired couples who are enjoying their lifetime savings. We have met countless numbers of them. Theyre just normal people who always lived below their means. Younger families who have the means overwhelmingly prefer overseas trips and resorts to campgrounds. I think the rich snob in the big RV image comes from movies with rockstars and such. They're out there, but it's certainly not typical of who is in those machines.

[SoaknWet]

Never heard of Good Credit or Renting? But enough of this line. As for the military discount, back in my day I may have to agree. 90% of my unit were 2 year draft victims, believe as a volunteer I caught . Today these kids are all volunteers and do deserve a little extra. But I'll also agree it's become a gimmick for car salesman, insurance agents and even the local big box stores and I do believe this is why a lot of people are against it.

[GaryM]

I don't mind paying, it keeps the riff raff out. :eek:
I am a vet too, haven't really taken advantage of many of the benefits except these last few years. I am happy I have them but not having them would not keep me out. I also believe in users taxes. If someone doesn't utilize a resource then they shouldn't have to pay for it. If the parks are paid for by the actual users instead of everyone throwing in I am fine with that.

[Mags]

Current passes:
https://www.nps.gov/planyourvisit/passes.htm

Active or Reserve/National Guard Duty military, access passes (people that the ADA applies to), and 4th graders are eligible for a free pass. Volunteers who put in 250 hours of volunteer work with the BLM, NPS, USFS, or any combo thereof can obtain a free pass (minus the volunteer work, of course) too.

I love my American the Beautiful Pass. Well worth the $80. Good for not only the NPS, but also many USFS, BLM, Wildlife Refuge area, etc. Some state parks or private museums near a NPS unit will sometimes give a discount, too. Pays for itself quickly.

[hobbs]

Wordstew thank you for the reply.Your second posting explained it a lot better than your first..I took what you wrote as well iam a vet I should get free admission period.I get why you said that after you related the park ranger story and what he or she said...About a year ago I gave a parks pass to a friend of the family whos a Vietnam vet..Hes using it and enjoying it..so its a win win for him.I do agree with a point Freegoldrush was making about some vets feel entitled...

[ldsailor]

As a vet myself I usually ask, but is NEVER excpected. Maybe I read the OP wrong? Never expect anything, humbly take what they give.

Amen. As a disabled vet, I love the VA and the services they provide. There has been a lot of bad press in recent years and it overshadows the good the VA does. (Sorry, just had to throw that plug in.)

[ldsailor]

It's hard to blame them because Americans have led them to believe they deserve all sorts of things others don't get.
Tell a Vietnam vet that and he'll laugh at you.

[SoaknWet]

Amen,Amen!

[Old Grouse]

Amen,Amen!

And again Amen!

[Traveler]

What puzzles me is why do I get a discount as a reward for getting old but you don't get a discount as a reward for serving to protect us all? I think you deserve it more than I do.
The Senior discount does two things, encourages seniors to visit National Parks who have the time to do so (presuming many are retired) and uses the logic that a reward for paying taxes over a lifetime is an attraction in and of itself. Senior discounts are common and a demonstrable economic incentive.

Were we to reward everyone who served the public by protecting it, veterans would be among a fairly significant number of people who provide protection to the public, some we never associate with it. For example: Police, fire fighters, EMTs, doctors, nurses, utility workers (electric, water, gas, without whom civilization as we know it would stop), corrections officials, the list is quite long and depends where the line of what is considered public protection is drawn.

[xnav]

I tried to use my senior pass on my last hike thru the park on the AT. The park ranger said a senior pass could not be applied to backcountry hiking fees. Apparently there is no system set up for its use. I was also told all backcountry hiking fees are dedicated to maintaining the backcountry only. Seems fair but I think much more damage is done by the impact of autos in the park. I did see a lot more people in the park than I did in 2007, hope they can control the growth in a way that's fair to all.

[wordstew]

I think we can all agree that there are many forms of service to the country (military, nurses, teachers, cops, emt, vets, firefighters) among others.

I think we can all agree the service of these people is somewhat special and deserves our gratitude (to what degree is your personal decision)

I think we can all agree most military, nurses, teachers, cops, emt, vets, firefighters do not act entitled

I think we can all agree any individual that comes off a entitle is just a dink no matter who they are

I think we can agree most military, Vet, teachers, cops, firefighters, emt, nurses if you gave them a discount or bought them a beer in local bar they would be very appreciative and many would try to buy you a beer or reciprocate if one form or another.

I think we can all agree nobody should be priced out of our national parks

[TX Aggie]

The increase in rates is only for the most overcrowded parks. And yes, some of these are truly overcrowded and overused.

It’s also a nudge to get people to buy the yearly pass. In all seriousness, the pass is much easier to maintain for park entry. 5-10 seconds to flash your card and drive past the gate vs 1-5 minute transaction for 500 cars on a busy day at Yosemite. Do the math.


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[TexasBob]

The Senior discount does two things, encourages seniors to visit National Parks who have the time to do so (presuming many are retired) and uses the logic that a reward for paying taxes over a lifetime is an attraction in and of itself. Senior discounts are common and a demonstrable economic incentive.
Were we to reward everyone who served the public by protecting it, veterans would be among a fairly significant number of people who provide protection to the public, some we never associate with it. For example: Police, fire fighters, EMTs, doctors, nurses, utility workers (electric, water, gas, without whom civilization as we know it would stop), corrections officials, the list is quite long and depends where the line of what is considered public protection is drawn.

What you say is true and I have no argument with any of it. It is just strikes me as odd that we choose as a society to reward one person because they are still breathing and not another whose contributions benefit all of us. Truth be told it makes me feel guilty that others who are more deserving don't get a discount and I do.

[Feral Bill]

I think we can all agree that there are many forms of service to the country (military, nurses, teachers, cops, emt, vets, firefighters) among others.

I think we can all agree the service of these people is somewhat special and deserves our gratitude (to what degree is your personal decision)

I think we can all agree most military, nurses, teachers, cops, emt, vets, firefighters do not act entitled

I think we can all agree any individual that comes off a entitle is just a dink no matter who they are

I think we can agree most military, Vet, teachers, cops, firefighters, emt, nurses if you gave them a discount or bought them a beer in local bar they would be very appreciative and many would try to buy you a beer or reciprocate if one form or another.

I think we can all agree nobody should be priced out of our national parks I agree.............

[adamkrz]

I joined the Marine Corps soon after Vietnam and could not believe the hate received from fellow American's, Forget about any freebies - you were lucky to be served a drink at any bar close to any college campus.

I remember coming back from Okinawa in 1977 and was told to get out of uniform as soon possible when arriving at LAX - Didn't matter because you were the only one wearing a high and tight haircut back then.

[SoaknWet]

Upon separation was unofficially advised to switch to civilian clothes as soon as possible! If I had been offered a cup of coffee I would still own the cup.

[gpburdelljr]

Truth be told it makes me feel guilty that others who are more deserving don't get a discount and I do.
You do yourself a disservice by thinking the only thing you did to get a senior lifetime park pass was to get old. A nation is not an abstract thing, it is made up of all the people in it. The contribution of every American, in aggregate, is what makes this a great nation. You contribute by working, by voting, and in innumerable other ways. Getting a senior pass is a small way for a grateful nation to say “thank you for a lifetime of service”, analogous to the proverbial gold watch a company might give a long time employee upon retirement.

[methodman]

I sincerely say that you have put making it to 70 in the most heart felt way I have ever heard. I thank you.

[TexasBob]

You do yourself a disservice by thinking the only thing you did to get a senior lifetime park pass was to get old. A nation is not an abstract thing, it is made up of all the people in it. The contribution of every American, in aggregate, is what makes this a great nation. You contribute by working, by voting, and in innumerable other ways. Getting a senior pass is a small way for a grateful nation to say “thank you for a lifetime of service”, analogous to the proverbial gold watch a company might give a long time employee upon retirement.

Good point well made. I was happy to get my $10 senior pass. This discussion has made me rethink it. My father (93) joined the Army Air Corp during WW II and made it career. He lives in San Antonio now and when we visit him we always end up taking him to Lackland Air Force base to the BX. During the early part of Iraq we would always see young men with obvious brain damage in wheelchairs with their families in the BX. I am sure they were patients at Wolford Hall Medical Center on the base. Compared to what I have done as good citizen for the country it is nothing compared to what they have given for the country. I guess that is why I feel guilty for getting a discount when others who have given far more than I don't get one.

[tawa]

While hiking through Shenandoah this past September I noticed the high use of families on a particular Saturday. Trailhead parking areas were full, families were hiking together and everyone seemed to be having a great day on a beautiful Day.
I stop at one of the huts for a lunch break and talking to two families that were also there.
They informed me that the reason the park was unusually busy was that it was a designated free admission day for the park. One dad quietly told me that these designated days were the only time he could afford to bring his family as he lived pay day to pay day.
The majority of us that have passes or that can afford to come into the park, camp at one of the campgrounds and eat a nice meal at one of the restaurants forget that so many Americans are not so fortunate.
Sad state of affairs when our national and state governments can afford to maintain our parks and make them available to all.

[tawa]

$75 for annual pass seems like the way to go :)

I personally don't see anything wrong with it...Parks are underfunded as it is, why not let the people that go and enjoy it help pickup some of the expenses, while at the same time cut down on the population going to the park for less of an impact.
Tell that to a dad that cant afford to take his children to our national parks. These parks belong to us not just to those that can afford it!
They are underfunded because they are not a priority to the majority of politicians .
As far as veterans don't even get me started. When you have walked in their shoes you will quickly understand its not about being entitled, whining or getting something for free----its about a grateful nation saying thank you for your service to this great nation!

[blw2]

What you say is true and I have no argument with any of it. It is just strikes me as odd that we choose as a society to reward one person because they are still breathing and not another whose contributions benefit all of us. Truth be told it makes me feel guilty that others who are more deserving don't get a discount and I do.

Yeah, I think the senior thing is very interesting. I understand the whole "fixed income" thing, many seniors....like my grandparents were...are poor....but overall I'd say that seniors are the ones with extra money. The young folks just starting out don't.

Side track story..... Way back a good long while ago, I had moved to a new city with a new job. Went to the bank to set-up a checking account. I wanted an interest bearing one. The bank guy put me into one set up as a seniors account. I was around 28 or so at the time..... It was the only one they had like I wanted. I remember him explaining that they can't limit it by age, because that would be age discrimination.

[Last Call]

What chafes me about the parks, state parks included, is that they are increasingly catering to the RV crowd. Case in point, Blackwater River State Park in Florida, it used to have a very nice primitive campground with secluded sites, with a nice bathhouse centrally located. Now it is paved over with RV sites, to heck with the tent campers....no sites for them! Who wants to set up a tent on a cement RV site? Georgia tent sites are now $30....when will the money grab end????

[blw2]

What chafes me about the parks, state parks included, is that they are increasingly catering to the RV crowd. Case in point, Blackwater River State Park in Florida, it used to have a very nice primitive campground with secluded sites, with a nice bathhouse centrally located. Now it is paved over with RV sites, to heck with the tent campers....no sites for them! Who wants to set up a tent on a cement RV site? Georgia tent sites are now $30....when will the money grab end????
I'm not familiar with that park, but I'm an RV'er myself, and we frequent state parks.

I'd say that I've noticed most parks don't have many "walk-in" tent only sites, and even fewer have any backcountry sites.....but from what I have seen the walk-in tent only sites don't get nearly as much use. However, most Florida state park sites really are more dual purpose in that they are not paved. Not really great in terms of nature/privacy but perfectly usable for tents as well as RV's....in fact I'd recon a high percentage of sites are used by tailgate camping tenters.

I do wish there were more state parks with nice back country sites. I mean it's not like they don't have the acreage available to carve out a few spaces off trail someplace..... and for that matter I am usually disappointed in how the RV spaces are crammed in together like a paring lot.

[Coffee]

While hiking through Shenandoah this past September I noticed the high use of families on a particular Saturday. Trailhead parking areas were full, families were hiking together and everyone seemed to be having a great day on a beautiful Day.
I stop at one of the huts for a lunch break and talking to two families that were also there.
They informed me that the reason the park was unusually busy was that it was a designated free admission day for the park. One dad quietly told me that these designated days were the only time he could afford to bring his family as he lived pay day to pay day.


And consider that Shenandoah National Park is located just west of one of the richest areas in the United States and we still have people priced out.

[TX Aggie]

Lost count on how many replies I’ve typed and deleted on this thread. This one snuck thru.

[Wyoming]

I think we can all agree that there are many forms of service to the country (military, nurses, teachers, cops, emt, vets, firefighters) among others.

I think we can all agree the service of these people is somewhat special and deserves our gratitude (to what degree is your personal decision)

I think we can all agree most military, nurses, teachers, cops, emt, vets, firefighters do not act entitled

I think we can all agree any individual that comes off a entitle is just a dink no matter who they are

I think we can agree most military, Vet, teachers, cops, firefighters, emt, nurses if you gave them a discount or bought them a beer in local bar they would be very appreciative and many would try to buy you a beer or reciprocate if one form or another.

I think we can all agree nobody should be priced out of our national parks
Agree.

EVERYONE who is a good citizen serves their county and deserves the same respect regardless of whether they were in the military or not. All good citizens sacrifice for the whole. And bad people occur in all walks of life including the military and none of them deserve respect.

We are all EQUAL here and nobody is special.

Everyone who has served is NOT a hero any more than all the firemen and policemen are or regular citizens are. Hero's are rare and special and if we don't keep it that way we diminish everyone. We have turned being in the service into a kids soccer participation trophy. Please stop.

I served for 21 years through all kinds of horrible stuff and I think the fawning glorification of people who have served this country in its various services is one of the biggest problems this country has. It leads us to make all kinds of bad judgements.

Lots of people who have served their country have made deep sacrifices whether they were in the military, police, firemen or just regular jobs like picking up the trash. Folks should never forget that those of us who have served have excellent pay and incredible benefits not commonly available to regular citizens so we are already being well rewarded. I retired very young and have lots of money and a pension which is perfectly safe, incredible health care and have been able to do what ever I wanted for a long time while I still have my health. What of the good citizen working at the Amazon warehouse for crap wages, under horrible conditions, with no health care at all, in debt and no chance to retire EVER. I have had it 1000 times better than they have. People like me should thank them for serving their country as I could have never done what they are going to do.

[Bronk]

I'm glad they are finally limiting access to lower income people. There's nothing worse than hiking up to a shelter and finding someone there in blue jeans and Walmart shoes smoking a Camel. Maybe now we can finally get a Starbucks at some of the huts in the whites.

[BlackCloud]

A sign of the times seems to be everyone not looking, but expecting, a handout. "Ask not what your country can do for you...."

Consider the cost of a national park entrance fee to the following:

Starbucks coffee: $5 a drink
Movie: $13 per person
NFL ticket: $50 each for nose bleeds
Colonial Williamsburg: $41 each
NASA - Kennedy Space Center: $35 - $195 each
Disney World: $107 each
Vail Lift Ticket: $189 each

And once inside a national park like Yosemite, good luck securing an indoor bed and shower for < $200/night. Nicer properties at Yosemite and elsewhere exceed $500/night! With airfare, car rental and $4.00/gal fuel in CA, I'm not worried about the $75 entrance fee for the entire car for the entire week. At least most that money goes to the park.

[Bronk]

What chafes me about the parks, state parks included, is that they are increasingly catering to the RV crowd. Case in point, Blackwater River State Park in Florida, it used to have a very nice primitive campground with secluded sites, with a nice bathhouse centrally located. Now it is paved over with RV sites, to heck with the tent campers....no sites for them! Who wants to set up a tent on a cement RV site? Georgia tent sites are now $30....when will the money grab end???? When a tent site rents for $8 and an RV site is $30, where do you think the money in their budget is coming from? What I don't understand is why people want to "camp" in these places to begin with. I'm not saying I've never done it, but when I do its during the off season and I'm just about the only person there.

[Bronk]

Many whine expecting free things. That's just been my experience. I was angrily lectured once by a vet about how he is privileged. It's hard to blame them because Americans have led them to believe they deserve all sorts of things others don't get.

I really do appreciate their military service.

And I do agree that national park entrance fees would be a natural place to give them a break. But if you consider why any of us pay fees at those places you come to a sad realization.
Do veterans "fight for our freedom" as the propaganda says, or do they fight for petty discounts and privileges when they return home? When we had universal service this is something we never would have even talked about.

I saw some firefighters that had this same mentality after 9/11. And we've all seen how thruhikers act when they roll into town to ticker tape parades. I don't think its really a veteran thing per se, but just human nature.

[ldsailor]

Do veterans "fight for our freedom" as the propaganda says, or do they fight for petty discounts and privileges when they return home? When we had universal service this is something we never would have even talked about..

I joined - that's right, joined not drafted, the Army in the middle of Vietnam. I was more concerned about coming home in a body bag than getting freebies 50 years later, 'cause I sure wasn't going to get them after I got out. Soldiers back then were just about universally hated in America, or at least that's the way it seemed.

[SoaknWet]

Amen Brother!

[Old Grouse]

Now I'm confused and conflicted. Was I wrong to take GI bill money to help pay for college? At a time when returning service members weren't on a lot of folks' A list, it was the only perk I was aware of, and it was very helpful. Now that I'm in my dotage I sometimes do and sometimes don't take advantage of either veterans' or senior discounts. For example, I always pay for my hot dog at the town's Memorial Day barbeque even though I could get it for free. On the other hand, I was happy to get a 15% discount on a new topcoat at Brooks Brothers last Fall. I guess I'm just fickle, eh?

[gpburdelljr]

Now I'm confused and conflicted. Was I wrong to take GI bill money to help pay for college? At a time when returning service members weren't on a lot of folks' A list, it was the only perk I was aware of, and it was very helpful. Now that I'm in my dotage I sometimes do and sometimes don't take advantage of either veterans' or senior discounts. For example, I always pay for my hot dog at the town's Memorial Day barbeque even though I could get it for free. On the other hand, I was happy to get a 15% discount on a new topcoat at Brooks Brothers last Fall. I guess I'm just fickle, eh?
Nothing wrong with using the GI bill to go to college. As a matter of fact the government probably made money out of it because college graduates make more money, and pay more taxes.

[Dogwood]

... These parks belong to us not just to those that can afford it!

Perhaps, in the not too distant future it'll be increasingly more accurate to state the parks belong to those who can best afford to leverage their influence among legislators.





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[Dogwood]

I do wish there were more state parks with nice back country sites. I mean it's not like they don't have the acreage available to carve out a few spaces off trail someplace.....

Without giving it much thought I can name at least a dozen SP'S in GA, NC, SC, and TN with hike in only campsites.

It's not just NP's and SP's that have hike in only "back country" sites either. By expanding the quest to National Forests, National Rec Areas, National Seashores, Wilderness Areas, National Monuments, National and State Wild and Scenic Rivers/Waterways, and even some Municipal Parks the availability is greater than demand.



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[Dogwood]

...These parks belong to us not just to those that can afford it!

They are underfunded because they are not a priority to the majority of politicians .


Indeed. So what are each one of us doing about it? We should each remember that as we let our collective voices and votes and dollars be leveraged.

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[Dogwood]

I'm glad they are finally limiting access to lower income people. There's nothing worse than hiking up to a shelter and finding someone there in blue jeans and Walmart shoes smoking a Camel. Maybe now we can finally get a Starbucks at some of the huts in the whites.That's so wrong but I still laughed.

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[Coffee]

Indeed. So what are each one of us doing about it? We should each remember that as we let our collective voices and votes and dollars be leveraged.


Wilderness users will always be a tiny minority so the key is to get the much larger number of people who use front country parts of the park system to appreciate and value wilderness even if they only day hike into it, at the most. Probably the best we can do as backpackers is to be good ambassadors for the wilderness by being polite and courteous in the front country and talk to people about the wilderness if so inclined (I've found lots of people ask questions when they realize I'm a backpacker). This also means accepting more development in certain places than we might prefer as wilderness users, understanding that if there isn't adequate front country for large numbers to go to, support for adjacent wilderness may dissipate. I go back and forth on this all the time b/c I really dislike developed front country places like Yosemite Valley and Grand Canyon south rim. I think Shenandoah National park, with the waysides and a couple of visitor centers, and concentrated development in places like Skyland and Big Meadows has it about right, although in an ideal world Skyline Drive wouldn't exist at all (see I'm going back and forth on this...).

[daddytwosticks]

Can't believe this thread is still going on. I'm a veteran. I don't "expect" special treatment or recognition. When it is offered, I accept it with gratitude and humility. Thank you.

[wordstew]

Can't believe this thread is still going on. I'm a veteran. I don't "expect" special treatment or recognition. When it is offered, I accept it with gratitude and humility. Thank you.

Hey buddy

I started this thread

I am surprised this thread sparked such a response

Anybody including Vets that display a holier than thou or an entitlement attitude should simply be ignored.

I too am a Vet and completely agree with your remarks. I was really just trying to point out that financially less fortunate Vets among others with a few less dollars in their pockets could potentially be priced out of the National Park system. It's a shame that some folks may not be able to afford to just walk in.

[TX Aggie]

Can't believe this thread is still going on. I'm a veteran. I don't "expect" special treatment or recognition. When it is offered, I accept it with gratitude and humility. Thank you.

Spot on. I was looking for a way to say exactly this.