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Time Zone
02-09-2018, 12:47
Per CNBC (and confirmed on Bean), they are dropping their unlimited satisfaction guarantee and going to 1-year returns:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/09/ll-bean-dropping-its-unlimited-returns-policy.html

Their website notes, however, "After one year, we will consider any items for return that are defective due to materials or craftsmanship." There are other caveats. As I read it, they can be more generous if they wish, but the discretion is theirs now and not the consumer's choice.

https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/513705

They're also doing $50 min for free shipping.

Generally I think this is a good change in policy because of the costs of abuse borne by LLB and its customers. Of course I'd like to see the benefits of the new policy reflected in prices ... but it may take some time. I assume they'd still have to honor items already bought under a prior version of their guarantee, since that generous inducement probably factored into the purchaser's decision to go with LLB.

The shipping policy is a sensible change too. People are turned off (sometimes shocked) at the real cost of shipping, so while it makes some sense to build it into prices, you have to sell enough to recover it.

This is pretty similar to REI's current policy, right?

Perhaps doesn't affect many here but they do still sell some outdoor gear and clothes (and I have some of each).

Venchka
02-09-2018, 13:01
Glad I got what I need before the change. They held out awhile before following REI.
Wayne

Feral Bill
02-09-2018, 13:10
It was just a matter of time.

JJ505
02-09-2018, 13:13
Maybe this was Landsend. But I know of someone who found one of those jackets that used to be really popular (plain bright colored jacket with light insulation) at Goodwill or something and then appealed to them for a new jacket. Lots of abuses like that. I think if that kind of thing gets widespread they can't really afford generous policies. :(

Time Zone
02-09-2018, 13:36
Maybe this was Landsend. But I know of someone who found one of those jackets that used to be really popular (plain bright colored jacket with light insulation) at Goodwill or something and then appealed to them for a new jacket. Lots of abuses like that. I think if that kind of thing gets widespread they can't really afford generous policies. :(

I've heard many stories like that, but all second hand (no pun intended). I've used their returns policy before, but only twice after a year, I think, both times, item failed due to adhesives/coatings failing (items were only lightly used, and were not improperly stored such as in garage/attic). And of course I was the original purchaser, with receipt. Both times I felt sheepish about it, but CSR assured me they wanted me to be satisfied and that's why they offered that guarantee. Naturally, the refund went right into more LLB items.

I have also declined to send back at least one (book)pack where the PU coating flaked off and failed, because the pack had quite a bit of use by that point. Seemed understandable because of the use, but maybe it would have happened anyway, solely with aging?

And while I have a few LLB items that are in good shape, but I might wish to have the funds for something different now, I'd never use their guarantee for that. If I really want some money for them, it's on me to sell them in the secondary market ... and probably put a big red X on the tag, too.

Bronk
02-09-2018, 13:52
I've bought lots of clothes from them online due to the free shipping. Probably won't order as much now as I ususally don't order more than $50 at a time. I've never had to return anything there. When you have a reputation for selling quality stuff you don't need a return policy.

MuddyWaters
02-09-2018, 13:59
Now, i wont order anything from them.
Just like i dont order anything from rei.

I order only the lowest price

peakbagger
02-09-2018, 15:11
I have seen "garage sale ladies" picking through clothes looking for LL Bean labels. Its no urban legend. NPR had a radio show last year regarding the policy and made it obvious that the policy was asking for abuse.

peakbagger
02-09-2018, 16:25
They also also in the process of a big employee buy out to reduce staff and getting freezing their pension plan. They have facilities all over southern Maine. They werent known for high pay but great benefits and the pension plan was pretty rare these days as most big companies got rid of them long ago.

LL Beans is a closely held private company owned by the Bean heirs, most stay out of the public eye but as the years go on there are more heirs and they all probably want their checks. I expect they could have gone public years ago and cashed out and then end up like Eddy Bauer and EMS but they have elected to keep private. The times they have tried to expand out of the outdoor retail field have not always been successful.

Dogwood
02-09-2018, 17:14
Despite corporate claims phrased in context of preventing abuse as the reason for the growing more restrictive returns/customer service changes it's also because there is an incentive for greater profitability...period.

rocketsocks
02-09-2018, 18:03
...or, they just got tired of excepting year old gear for a refund by those looking to scam.

Time Zone
02-09-2018, 18:04
Despite corporate claims phrased in context of preventing abuse as the reason for the growing more restrictive returns/customer service changes it's also because there is an incentive for greater profitability...period.

keyword = also

Both are valid reasons.

MuddyWaters
02-09-2018, 18:10
LL Beans is a closely held private company owned by the Bean heirs, most stay out of the public eye but as the years go on there are more heirs and they all probably want their checks. I expect they could have gone public years ago and cashed out and then end up like Eddy Bauer and EMS but they have elected to keep private. The times they have tried to expand out of the outdoor retail field have not always been successful.


The Chinese have a saying. I don't speak Chinese or write it or even remember what the words sound like in Chinese so I'm going to paraphrase.

The first generation builds a business
The second generation keeps it going
The third generation destroys it

When you think about it this is very very true.
The idea is that the children of the person who built the business has had enough of their parents character and teaching about it instilled in them to keep it going okay.
The grandchildren are spoiled brats that don't give a darn about anything but spending money. Money they didn't have to work for.

imscotty
02-09-2018, 18:44
What else could LL Bean do? People are scum. OK, only some people are scum, but there are enough of them to ruin things for those who want to play fair. This is why we can't have nioce things.

Maineiac64
02-09-2018, 18:47
It was just a matter of time.

Yup, just 100 years.

Cheyou
02-09-2018, 19:15
The change will have no effect on me . I bet I can decide in a year if it is ok or not !

Thom

Dogwood
02-09-2018, 19:17
keyword = also

Both are valid reasons.


Good catch Mr Grammarman. :) Indeed. TU.

greenmtnboy
02-09-2018, 19:52
I spoke to a worker at a VT state park who fished a large LL Bean tent out of a dumpster at the park and sent it in for a big gift certificate. No proof of purchase, why should they be on the hook on a customer satisfaction basis without evidence?

However I have had their expensive $20 a pair socks that fail in a year or two. I guess it is too late now for some that are "holy", lol.

I can get a couple pair of basic Merino socks for $10 online, no need to go to them.

They will lose business now.

gpburdelljr
02-09-2018, 20:51
You can still return for a full year if not 100% satisfied for any reason. That is extremely generous.

Time Zone
02-09-2018, 22:57
They will lose business now.

I suspect they feel they may be better off in the long run losing a certain segment of the business.

Time Zone
02-09-2018, 23:02
You can still return for a full year if not 100% satisfied for any reason. That is extremely generous.

It would be if it were wholly true. It's not entirely true; there are exceptions. From the page I linked in a the first post, LLB says (emphasis mine):



To protect all our customers and make sure that we handle every return or exchange with reasonable fairness, we cannot accept a return or exchange (even within one year of purchase) in certain situations, including:



Products damaged by misuse, abuse, improper care or negligence, or accidents (including pet damage)
Products showing excessive wear and tear
Products lost or damaged due to fire, flood, or natural disaster
Products with a missing label or label that has been defaced
Products returned for personal reasons unrelated to product performance or satisfaction
Products that have been soiled or contaminated, until they have been properly cleaned
Returns on ammunition either in our stores or through the mail
On rare occasions, past habitual abuse of our Return Policy

MuddyWaters
02-10-2018, 05:52
Pure speculation but I wouldn't be surprised if llbean's mail-order segments have been decreasing with time due to increasing competition from other internet Sellers and Amazon. Back in the 1980s they were one of the only games in town. My parents ordered a lot of things from L.L.Bean. that generation is dying off.

Today I don't even consider them they're not even a blip on the radar unless I wanted that unconditional guarantee. The reason is their prices are normally higher than prices that can be obtained elsewhere. The good thing is it now and then they do have a 20% off or something like that that gives a decent price.

My experience with llbean's own products, are that they are usually very well-made but often seriously lacking in design. They usually aren't my first consideration. I'm still using an LL Bean gym bag that's about 20 years old though and is good shape.

.

Coffee
02-10-2018, 09:31
It's a good change. Excessively liberal return policies that facilitate fraud are not free but paid for by honest customers.

4shot
02-10-2018, 11:00
I suspect they feel they may be better off in the long run losing a certain segment of the business.

The old business adage "there is no such thing as a bad customer" is no longer true in today's environment. I once had a customer who accounted for less than 1% of my annual sales but over 20% of my total returns. Not only was I losing money but he was tying up too much of the company's resources. One of the best decisions I ever made was getting rid of that account.
The changes in their return policy will not affect the average customer.

greenmtnboy
02-10-2018, 11:42
The issue they should have addressed a long time ago was fraud; people with no connection to an item with an LL Bean tag, returning to game the system. We have a lot of these fraudsters from the top of the system to the bottom; they take advantage of the good nature of businesses that want to be reasonable and helpful. No business should subsidize irresponsible people who go to Goodwill, etc. getting LL Bean items seeking whopping gift cards after they sent the items in. Liars should never prosper, but with the LL Bean "guarantee" they were.

I had seen them for a long time look for a sales record on the few returns I did in the last few years. And the last time I returned their defective Merino socks, they gave me $10 as a store credit for $17 socks that were much inferior to the prior set. Someone was praising the Cresta Hiker boots, I tried a pair, their soles failed in less than 100 miles on the AT. They make a lot of money with their expensive stuff, maybe they need to cut back their lavish accommodations at their mall stores? Too many employees too. The brick and mortar business model for high retail is high risk.

Offshore
02-10-2018, 12:42
Glad I got what I need before the change. They held out awhile before following REI.
Wayne
Their revised policy makes no mention of grandfathering prior purchases. You may have a civil case for a retroactive change in return policy, but the costs of pursuing it are probably not worth it.

Time Zone
02-10-2018, 13:02
Their revised policy makes no mention of grandfathering prior purchases. You may have a civil case for a retroactive change in return policy, but the costs of pursuing it are probably not worth it.

True, but I strongly doubt it would be necessary - I think they'll honor stuff bought under the old system - they may require a receipt (IMO they always should have!), an explanation, and have the customer pay to ship back, but that won't affect the honest customer. If they didn't, it's not the civil court case they need worry about, but the court of public opinion.

MtDoraDave
02-10-2018, 14:22
Seeing or hearing of all the abuse of the super liberal return policies (even the 1 year policies) of the various outfitters, I am not surprised LL Bean cut theirs back to something more reasonable. Lifetime warranty on things that are supposed to wear over time... I don't understand.
...auto parts? Okay, they gamble you'll lose your receipt or sell your car before the part wears out - but clothing or gear?

As a self employed / small business owner, I feel guilty taking advantage of these policies. Twenty dollars for a pair of socks that has lasted me four years and counting??? I think I'll just buy another pair when they actually wear out.

Coffee
02-10-2018, 16:03
I always think of posts that appear from time to time of someone recommending Darn Tough socks because you can return them after a five month thru hike (!!!) for a replacement, and keep doing that forever over multiple thru hikes. It's a ludicrous way to behave. The small minority ruins policies that can be helpful sometimes to the rest of us, but that's just the way it is.

Feral Bill
02-10-2018, 16:14
I always think of posts that appear from time to time of someone recommending Darn Tough socks because you can return them after a five month thru hike (!!!) for a replacement, and keep doing that forever over multiple thru hikes. It's a ludicrous way to behave. The small minority ruins policies that can be helpful sometimes to the rest of us, but that's just the way it is. Darn Tough has a ludicrous policy. They depend on the vast majority of their buyers not using it. So, for that matter, did LL Bean and REI.

DT makes some nice socks, though.

Lone Wolf
02-10-2018, 16:17
Darn tough socks are not all that tough. just about every day during thru-hiker season a hiker comes into our stores with holy socks wantin' replacements. they have to send them by mail to the company. i personally think the socks suck

Coffee
02-10-2018, 16:43
I wasn't impressed with the one pair of darn tough socks I purchased a few years ago. I got a blister and I never get blisters with smart wool. But I didn't return it, maybe I should have.

blw2
02-10-2018, 17:02
The change will have no effect on me . I bet I can decide in a year if it is ok or not !

Thom

Yeah, kinda my thought too. Doesn't affect me.....I would never fathom a thought of returning something heavily used especially that wasn't defective in some way....or as folks mentioned here something that I didn't even buy. IN fact I would never have even had an idea of the possibility till i read it here!

I just look at stores that advertise such policies as being customer service oriented....& I appreciate that.

I recently returned a sleeping pad to REI that I didn't like, almost a year out. It wasn't until reading about their return policy here in other threads that I would have even thought of it. I still almost didn't, and feel a bit weird about it being almost a year. I justified by the fact that I only slept on the pad once, with clothes so it was still clean...and inflated a few other times at home to try it out, using an inflator bag. Otherwise stored it loosely and properly. I just couldn't like the thing, figured it's still in perfectly good garage sale condition, and that's why they offer the policy. Traded in for a different type of pad.

blw2
02-10-2018, 20:21
I was just checking out some new to me youtube channels. A guy currently hiking the AT showing his gear.
https://youtu.be/4MSlXmQW5bw
I just had to come back to this thread and post.... He Had a whole pile of packs, some still with the tags hanging on them, couple brand new Ospreys. A couple Zpacks models, and others.... I could be misinterpreting what he said, but lead me to believe that he planned to use the largest pack starting out Jan 1 as his winter pack....and then as he progresses loosing gear as the weather warms up, he's switch to progressively smaller and smaller packs...returning them to REI as he goes for refund. Unnecessary I think, but still and interesting concept, right up to the point of returning a used pack

Man o man, I just don't think that's the intention of that policy...... that just doesn't seem right to me.:-?

Durunner
02-10-2018, 21:24
You guys wouldn't even believe how many people trade in heavily worn slippers every year or two. Too cheap to pay for new slippers. I will have some more L.L. Bean info to post on here in a month or two.

Coffee
02-11-2018, 01:30
He Had a whole pile of packs, some still with the tags hanging on them, couple brand new Ospreys. A couple Zpacks models, and others.... I could be misinterpreting what he said, but lead me to believe that he planned to use the largest pack starting out Jan 1 as his winter pack....and then as he progresses loosing gear as the weather warms up, he's switch to progressively smaller and smaller packs...returning them to REI as he goes for refund. Unnecessary I think, but still and interesting concept, right up to the point of returning a used pack
Man o man, I just don't think that's the intention of that policy...... that just doesn't seem right to me.:-?

Doesn't surprise me. It's just messed up. Especially to do this to small manufacturers like zPacks which has a good return policy (which I've used) for merchandise that hasn't been used on trail.

MuddyWaters
02-11-2018, 04:34
People used to buy Craftsman tools used at garage sales and return them for new tools. They could be 50 years old and Sears would give you a brand new version. could be broken and Sears will give you a brand new version.

That created outstanding brand loyalty from many many years to Sears and Craftsman. It's why Craftsman is actually one of the most valuable parts of Sears assets today.

The number of people that abused these kind of policies is low. It's factors into pricing . Companies don't start deleting these kind of programs that generate loyalty until.... They have to.... For financial reasons.

connolm
02-11-2018, 17:32
Surely you saw the news story: Woman returns 'dead' Christmas tree to Costco in January.

This kind of behavior saddens me.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2018/01/11/woman-returns-dead-christmas-tree


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peakbagger
02-11-2018, 17:57
People used to buy Craftsman tools used at garage sales and return them for new tools. They could be 50 years old and Sears would give you a brand new version. could be broken and Sears will give you a brand new version.

That created outstanding brand loyalty from many many years to Sears and Craftsman. It's why Craftsman is actually one of the most valuable parts of Sears assets today.

The number of people that abused these kind of policies is low. It's factors into pricing . Companies don't start deleting these kind of programs that generate loyalty until.... They have to.... For financial reasons.

Sears sold the Craftsman line a few years ago.

T.S.Kobzol
02-11-2018, 18:39
They could change the policy to their brand only and require warranty registration.

But instead they go all out and ruin what set them apart frommajority of the brands. They are overconfident about their brand. Why would any straight thinking outdoor shopper buy their chinese crap? You can buy patagonia (especially when on sale) and get better quality and a better warranty


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greenmtnboy
02-12-2018, 00:52
They were asinine to have an open ended policy; but they didn't really honor it in a lot of cases anyway, giving you the double whammy when you came in to get a replacement! I'm sure they have voodoo dolls of the worst offenders, having their Haitian docs. do their worst! lol
LL Bean isn't really about real outdoor serious hiking and camping anyway, but is second rate, for the yuppies, trust fund make believe weekend outdoors people who can brag about hiking the White Mtns..

MuddyWaters
02-12-2018, 02:10
Sears sold the Craftsman line a few years ago.

Closed 11 mo ago.
Point is the craftsman name was built on lifetime guarantee, and was worth $900 million.

Much of that i thinkt was being at right place right time. Consumers choices were limited and Sears was everywhere for many yrs we hen was American institution.

MuddyWaters
02-12-2018, 14:52
The return policy is priced into their business model. It's not stealing from you. You have the option to make your purchase wherever you want.

Running Warehouse still allows people to return used shoes and exchange them.
Why? Because buying shoes mail order is going to be prone to some dissatisfaction and this was a part of their business model. It works and it works well. They have only a limited number of used returns they're going to allow a person to do a year though. It's at their discretion. Their prices are also higher than other places. You pay for the policy. You can get the same free shipping and free return shipping for trying shoes from Zappo's. But you can't return used shoes to Zappos.

Lnj
02-12-2018, 19:04
I just have to say that LL Bean does make their products VERY WELL. I bought both my kids backpacks/book bags online when they were both in middle school, because I heard LLBean had great ones that lasted and then the awesome return policy, and I was tired of replacing them year after year because my kids are just so abusive to them... My daughter is a freshman in college now and my son is a sophomore in high school and both are still carrying them. They are in great shape. I did replace my daughters in high school because the zipper finally broke. They replaced it without a blink and it was a few years old then. I will always buy from them for any type of bag. Don't know about other stuff, as that's all I have ever bought from them. Just throwing some love on LLB. Hard to find good products made well these days. Most companies make stuff designed to fail within a few years so you have to go buy again and they get the opportunity to possibly get more money out of you. I see the business view on that, but quality builds loyalty and loyalty spreads the word and grows customers.

Time Zone
02-12-2018, 20:48
I just have to say that LL Bean does make their products VERY WELL.

Yes and no. I generally agree with you on packs. I'd put my LLB daypack up against any other in a test of durability. But dang, it ought to be durable, since it is quite heavy for its volume. My LLB backpacking pack is tough too, but closer to mainstream* for weight to volume.

Their book packs are famously durable. And some people value durability - and that late great satisfaction guarantee - over whether it's light weight. They're not wrong for doing so. Just different than those who value light weight above all.

But I've not had good luck with their insulated Wildcat boots.

It all depends on what vendor they're using, and what build specs they're giving them.



*Kelty, Gregory, Deuter, Osprey (non-Exos)

rocketsocks
02-12-2018, 21:33
I got a pair of LL Bean wing tip shoes that’s 35 years old and just now showing signs of a floppy sole.

saltysack
02-12-2018, 21:40
Surely you saw the news story: Woman returns 'dead' Christmas tree to Costco in January.

This kind of behavior saddens me.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2018/01/11/woman-returns-dead-christmas-tree


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LMAO....you got to be kidding! Costco is another retailer forced to tighten their return policy.


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Offshore
02-13-2018, 08:24
LMAO....you got to be kidding! Costco is another retailer forced to tighten their return policy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Costco is misleading when tout their return unlimited return policy. It's really at the discretion of the front-end or store manager - so, it's technically not a "policy" at all. I've (happily) watched people wheeling in well used patio furniture and grills at the end of the season only to be sent packing by the returns desk. I roll my eyes when I hear Costco acolytes gushing about the return policy and not realizing that those costs are sometimes pushed back to the vendor but most often to the retail customer in terms of higher prices. I've always viewed these lax policies as a negative - it's people who treat the policy reasonably paying for the scammers who return cut Christmas trees in January, grills in October, and yes, even Darn Tough socks after putting 1000 miles on them.

saltysack
02-13-2018, 08:35
Costco is misleading when tout their return unlimited return policy. It's really at the discretion of the front-end or store manager - so, it's technically not a "policy" at all. I've (happily) watched people wheeling in well used patio furniture and grills at the end of the season only to be sent packing by the returns desk. I roll my eyes when I hear Costco acolytes gushing about the return policy and not realizing that those costs are sometimes pushed back to the vendor but most often to the retail customer in terms of higher prices. I've always viewed these lax policies as a negative - it's people who treat the policy reasonably paying for the scammers who return cut Christmas trees in January, grills in October, and yes, even Darn Tough socks after putting 1000 miles on them.

I agree with ya I witness the same crap every month when I do my Costco trip....they used to have a crazy computer return policy they did away with as it got abused like crazy!


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Deacon
02-13-2018, 08:58
I got a pair of LL Bean wing tip shoes thatís 35 years old and just now showing signs of a floppy sole.

No excuse for that. Send them back and demand a replacement!


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rocketsocks
02-13-2018, 12:18
No excuse for that. Send them back and demand a replacement!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Proi just can’t do it, I’d be embarrassed, besides I got a great cobbler that could prolly use the dough if he’s still alive, haven’t had to go in a year or two.

Deacon
02-13-2018, 12:28
i just canít do it, Iíd be embarrassed, besides I got a great cobbler that could prolly use the dough if heís still alive, havenít had to go in a year or two.

Oh I know. Just kidding.


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BuckeyeBill
02-13-2018, 12:37
When I was younger and in the process of building my tool set, I Was buying from Craftsman, Mac Tools and Snap-On. One of my Snap-On phillips screwdrivers had rounded over. When I showed it the the salesman, he said that's not covered under warranty. He then chucked it up in a vise took a small sledge hammer and broke the shaft off. He looked at me and said "That's covered under warranty.

swatsullivan
02-13-2018, 17:47
Darn Tough has a ludicrous policy. They depend on the vast majority of their buyers not using it. So, for that matter, did LL Bean and REI.

DT makes some nice socks, though.

They are all I wear now, even to work with a suit and tie. Makes it all the more nice that if any get holes, I can return them, but so far, they have held up better than any of the more "formal" black socks I used to wear to work.

I do not buy anything from LL Bean anymore--not like I did when I was young or like my parents did. I still have my Maine Hunting Shoes (a/k/a Bean Boots) from the early 80s when I was in middle school. I am not sure that the things they produce now are much better than other, lower cost alternatives.

I tried buying some things at LL Bean a few years ago. I was looking for a wide-brimmed hat a couple of years ago to wear hiking in NM. I go one from LL Bean, but did not like it. Returned it and got one from REI that I absolutely loved. I got a raincoat from LL Bean that was light and fairly expensive that did not keep water out. I got one at REI that did keep water out. So I learned my lesson about LL Bean--more style than function it seems.

Lnj
02-13-2018, 18:01
But the book bags are awesome!

swatsullivan
02-13-2018, 18:15
But the book bags are awesome!

Now until you mentioned it, I hadn't thought about it. My cousin (in ME) just had a baby boy, and we got him an LL Bean book bag. I used to have one, and each of my kids (I have 4 boys) has had more than one. I should've returned the ones that they banged up or where zipper failed, but it never occurred to me. We got our money's worth out of them, though! I still use one of their old ones to carry odds and ends around from time to time.

Time Zone
02-14-2018, 15:05
Someone is suing LL Bean for changing their warranty policy:

http://www.13newsnow.com/news/local/ll-bean-faces-class-action-lawsuit-over-return-policy-change/518715326

... it appears that the substance of the claim is that the new policy is being enforced upon items bought under the old policy (not that they can't change the guarantee for future sales). If that's true, I suspect that's a difficult spot for LLB, though IANAL. They sold stuff under the guise of an indefinite satisfaction guarantee. The deal was, you pay this amount of money, you get these goods, and this guarantee.

As of yet unverified are reports that a Bean spokesman responded to the lawsuit by saying, "I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further."

Time Zone
02-14-2018, 15:06
PS bean lawyers: that's a joke! Sarcasm, parody.

fiddlehead
02-14-2018, 21:52
I imagine there will be a class action lawsuit.
How can you tell someone that the item they bought is guaranteed for life, and then say: Never mind. We lied. So the jokes on you. haha.

Slow Trek
02-15-2018, 00:45
Pretty simple really. You honor the warranty for items sold before the policy change,and require proof of purchase date for items sold after the new policy is in place. There really is no free lunch,and there comes a point where you can no longer absorb the cost of abusive customers. I sell professional grade tools with a legendary warranty,and average a grand a week in free tools for warranty. 90 percent of the warranty comes from 10 percent of the users,some from people that simply use them more,but most from people that use the tool improperly. The cost is born by 100 percent of the customers. Bean has no doubt done the math,and found that they cannot simply increase prices enough to pay for abuse of the ten percent,so they have only one other choice,if they intend to show a profit.

rickb
02-15-2018, 04:38
Pretty simple really. You honor the warranty for items sold before the policy change... .

I think that is what they are doing.

Looks like the lead plaintiff in the Class Action suit was not even denied a return ó and that he was seeking redress for a tort that never happened!

IANAL, but if that is the case I hope LLBean finds a way to sic their own lawyers on those who filed this claim.

BillyGr
02-15-2018, 16:47
It seems like the issue could be that many people bought items over the years and never kept their proof of purchase (since you wouldn't need it with the old policy that made sense).

Now they may be concerned that they are not going to be able to get what was promised to them (since they have no way to prove that the item was purchased prior to the change in the rules).

Thus those folks could be denied claims that should be valid, which may be where the lawsuit is coming from? Not knowing if they will have an item that fails next week, or next year and wanting to be sure preemptively that it won't be an issue when/if it happens?

Time Zone
03-06-2018, 17:35
As I've thought about this, I have a hard time figuring out why I'd use LLB much going forward for hiking or backpacking gear. They seem to have about the same warranty as REI now, but REI has a lot bigger selection and a lot more retail stores (incl. ones that are closer to me), so there's not likely a shipping cost (or hassle) either at purchase or if a warranty return within 1 year is needed. Yada yada yada, under their new warranty, what's their competitive advantage? I'm not sure they have one, esp. given their rather limited offerings.

Imagine if instead they charted a middle ground. Indefinite warranty, but a) you had to have a receipt and be the original purchaser, b) ordinary wear and tear is excluded. So if you have a newish looking pack or boot where the stitching is coming undone, they cover it, even if it's 18-24 months old. If the items looks pretty worn, and old, say, it's not covered. Anyway, that's just one idea that could have maintained some reason to buy from them over REI (if you're open to buying from them in the first place).

Doc
03-06-2018, 17:59
I had a MATC meeting at the Freeport store this morning and walked by the returns area. Usually there is a long line but today it seemed to be only one or two folks returning stuff. I will continue to buy from them because I really like their products and I want to support a business that is a huge supporter of the AT. I have no worry if I should return an item that proves defective that they will stand behind it. They have my purchase history going back several years so it is easy for them to see that I bought it and did not get it at Goodwill.