View Full Version : Does water boil faster in the winter
handlebar
02-10-2006, 19:17
I was talking to a buddy who sectioned from Springer to Del Water Gap between high school and college. He's saying that water boils faster in the winter because there's less disolved oxygen. I say it boils slower because it's likely to be colder. Anyone want to arbitrate?
Handlebar :banana
Footslogger
02-10-2006, 19:23
My understanding is that time to boil is influenced by elevation (barometric pressure) but I've not heard that the Winter would have any effect. If anything I would expect the time to boil to increase due to the starting temp of the water.
Maybe someone with more knowledge can shed some light on this one.
'Slogger
Dances with Mice
02-10-2006, 19:30
My understanding is that time to boil is influenced by elevation (barometric pressure) but I've not heard that the Winter would have any effect. If anything I would expect the time to boil to increase due to the starting temp of the water.Maybe someone with more knowledge can shed some light on this one.'Slogger As everyone knows, it all depends on whether or not someone is watching the pot...
Boiling is a function of the intrinsic properties of the fluid, the fluid temperature, and the atmospheric pressure above the fluid.
You're right. He's wrong. Now do what every good scientist would do: Gloat, rub it in and never let him forget what a stupid thing he believed.
TwoForty
02-10-2006, 19:47
Water boils when the vapor pressure of the water is greater than the local atmospheric pressure. Temperature doesn't matter (directly), only barometic pressure (which varies with weather and altitude) matters.
Of course, that is just the variables for water boiling. Your stove has a whole new set of variables. Cold weather does cause the pressure in my canister to drop, so it takes longer to boil.
Cliff notes: no
elevation impacts boiling because the higher you are, the lower the boiling temperature, which is why tea is only tepid warm on everest. this is the classic argument i used to have with my mom at home. She swore that we should fill pots with cold water in the kitchen so that they would boil faster and i would fill it with as hot water as i could. we never raced to see who was right, probably because we liked to fight so much...
saimyoji
02-10-2006, 19:52
RE: dissolved oxygen: cold water actually has MORE dissolved O2 than warm water.
timhines
02-10-2006, 21:05
saimyoji is right about O2.
It seems there would be some sort of corelation. If hot water freezes faster than lukewarm water them maybe cold water boils faster.
I'll have to try and email my old science teacher and see what the deal is.
Lone Wolf
02-10-2006, 21:06
Who cares? you ain't going anywhere. You got lotsa time.:)
icemanat95
02-10-2006, 21:22
If you check the web for scientific discussions on the subject of cold water or hot water boiling faster, you get a lot of disagreement...sometimes aggressive disagreement.
Personally I think the differences are probably negligible from a functional perspective.
mweinstone
02-10-2006, 22:57
that is right.you got plenty of time einsteins.man i used to think hikers were most closely related to bikers but i see its scientists and hikers. bikers must go with wolves.
bobtomaskovic
02-11-2006, 01:10
the wait for a morning coffee always seems 10 times longer to me in the winter. What about loosing BTU's to the enviroment?
Water boils when the vapor pressure of the water is greater than the local atmospheric pressure. Temperature doesn't matter (directly), only barometic pressure (which varies with weather and altitude) matters.When I put a pan with water in it on my stove and turn the burner on, the water gets hot and boils. As far as I know the barometric pressure inside my house is unchanged.
In order to boil, the state (solid,liquid,gas) must change, and that is done by applying energy (heat) to go from liquid to gas (boiling) or solid to gas (sublimation). To go in the opposite direction (liquid to solid) you must remove energy from the liquid. Your freezer will remove energy from the water in the ice cube trays, transferring it to the coils in the back, and then into the air in your house.
Barometric pressure will affect the temperature at which the water boils, but you will still need to raise the temperature of the water. At 10,000 feet water boils at about 194*F.
As far as the general debate about whether it is faster to boil hot water or cold water, do this thought experiment:
Put a pan containing a quart of water in the refrigerator to get it down to about 38 degrees.
Bring a quantity of water almost to a boil, say 200 degrees, and pour a quart of it into a pre-heated pan.
Now put the quart of 38 degree water and quart of 200 degree water on teh stove with the burner under each set at maximum.
Freddie Kreuger is standing next to you with a chainsaw. He asks you to pick which pan of water will come to a boil first. He will cut off your right arm with the chainsaw if you guess wrong. Which pan do you pick?
(To be sure, repeat this experiment switching pans for the hot and cold water, and also switching burners. Bet your left arm this time if you picked the cold water pan last time.)
sliderule
02-11-2006, 12:05
I was talking to a buddy who sectioned from Springer to Del Water Gap between high school and college. He's saying that water boils faster in the winter because there's less disolved oxygen. I say it boils slower because it's likely to be colder. Anyone want to arbitrate?
Handlebar :banana
Maybe it would be smarter to get your physics lessons who hiked after college.
sliderule
02-11-2006, 12:11
Maybe it would be smarter to get your physics lessons who hiked after college.
I meant to say "from someone who hiked after college."
Where is the edit function when you need it?
I was talking to a buddy who sectioned from Springer to Del Water Gap between high school and college. He's saying that water boils faster in the winter because there's less disolved oxygen. I say it boils slower because it's likely to be colder. Anyone want to arbitrate?
Handlebar :banana
not in my jet boil it don't:cool: neo
saimyoji
02-11-2006, 15:25
Yeah..this question has another implication= why are you trying to boil water? Just to boil water or to cook your pasta (or whatever)? If water boils faster while at a lower temperature, you'll have to boil it longer for the pasta (or whatever) to cook properly.
Ever notice on those soups packets that it says to boil 5 min longer at elevation? So...it may boil FASTER...but you gotta cook it LONGER.
dougmeredith
02-11-2006, 17:59
There is no magic. Think of it this way. Let's say it will take 5 minutes to boil a fixed amount of water that starts at 200 degrees.
Now lets say you have the same volume of water at 100 degrees. Before it will boil, you first have to reach 200 degrees. From this point it will take 5 minutes to boil. Unless you can go from 100 to 200 in negative time, the warm water will always boil first.
You can apply the same logic to figure out if hot or cold water will freeze first.
Doug
The colder it is out, the slower it is going to boil everything else being the same. The liquid has to raise to a certain temp before boiling and the colder it is, the more that cold will fight the raise in temperature.
Is there something complicated about it?
I am not sure, but I think water boils faster when you turn the flame up. :-?
Water boils fastest when you're busy with something else you can't stop yet. It boils slowest when you're waiting for the first cup of coffee in the morning.
I know it takes more fuel to boil water with an alcohol stove at higher elevations. I now use a sierra zip woodburner, fuel is everywhere. Even above tree line you can still find stuff to burn, but I usually carry a little wood up with me if I'm planning on cooking.
The correct answer is "Nope." But "NOPE" doesn't have 10 characters, so I can't say just write "nope." But water takes more time to boil when it's cold out, especially when you start with cold water. And boils even slower if you start with frozen water.
1) Constants: Basic physics say that if you apply a constant amount of BTU's to water at variable temperatures, the warmer water will boil faster. The only way to approach the warm weather boil times in cooler weather are to start with more BTU's or warmer water.
In cold weather, keeping a water bladder under your insulation will keep the water warmer (though it may cool you), allowing for faster boil times than if you use "stream fresh" water.
2) Environmental considerations: Heat applied to the water pot is conveyed into cold air faster than in warm air. Moving cold air can sometimes conduct heat away from your pot almost as fast as you can apply it, lengthening boil times, given a constant application of BTU's. Minimizing the loss of applied heat by way of a windscreen is the most commonly used method of decreasing boil times and fuel consumption (increasing efficiency).
Jet-Boil uses a heat exchanger under the pot which, in effect, increases the surface area of the bottom of the pot, putting more BTU's to the contents.
So: You are right, and your friend is wrong.
Btw: Drinking hot liquids in hot weather does not cool you, (though the increased sweating it may cause possibly could) nor does drinking cold water in cold weather warm you.
saimyoji
02-12-2006, 12:41
I remember a survival story I say on one of those Saturday shows about a couple that crashed their car during a blizzard. They ran out of M&Ms and decided to hike towards civilization (like 20 miles I think, so not impossible, but they were an older inexperienced couple.) Anyway, the woman is eating snow to stay hydrated in the cold dry air. The woman got hypothermic (the snow lowered her core temp) and froze to death while the man made it....the lesson? Don't eat snow to hydrate yourself in such a situation: cold water doesn't warm you up.
Interestingly enough, when I lived in Thailand the locals would say to drink hot tea on a hot day, thinking that it would cool you off. I always went for the cold drinks, but never soda on a really hot day, always thin juice, water or beer (not recommended if you have an active day planned).
I remember a survival story I say on one of those Saturday shows about a couple that crashed their car during a blizzard. They ran out of M&Ms and decided to hike towards civilization (like 20 miles I think, so not impossible, but they were an older inexperienced couple.) Anyway, the woman is eating snow to stay hydrated in the cold dry air. The woman got hypothermic (the snow lowered her core temp) and froze to death while the man made it....the lesson? Don't eat snow to hydrate yourself in such a situation: cold water doesn't warm you up.
Interestingly enough, when I lived in Thailand the locals would say to drink hot tea on a hot day, thinking that it would cool you off. I always went for the cold drinks, but never soda on a really hot day, always thin juice, water or beer (not recommended if you have an active day planned).
Good point on the hot weather drinks. Too much sugar actually draws water out of your system to aid in the digestion of itself. Unless copious amounts of water are consumed with sweet beverages, you could become dehydrated with severe muscle cramps being the immediate problem with other symptoms of heat stroke following. (Personal experience :( ).