View Full Version : Article addressing extending the south end of the AT
oldwetherman
02-11-2018, 19:43
https://www.annistonstar.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-bring-the-at-to-alabama/article_0c7052bc-0df0-11e8-8101-9fb77b617709.html
Lone Wolf
02-11-2018, 20:24
never gonna happen
I, too, think the AT should be extended south -- but only 8.8 miles to the Amicalola Visitor Center. I also think the northern terminus should be somewhere other than inside Baxter State Park so AT hikers need trouble the Baxter caretakers no more. A classy, modest terminus monument could be placed at the ATC-owned tentsite near Abol Bridge.
I think the trail also misses Kentucky, right? Another Appalachian Mountain state.....
Regardless, I do think that extension would be very logical. I have no understanding though of the history or logistics of the idea.... but as Lone Wolf says, never happen (I'm basing that on the article saying it would take congress to get it done).
I think it would be really great in concept to link up the pinhoti to the Florida trail....but that part of course would not be Appalachian....
I, too, think the AT should be extended south -- but only 8.8 miles to the Amicalola Visitor Center. I also think the northern terminus should be somewhere other than inside Baxter State Park so AT hikers need trouble the Baxter caretakers no more. A classy, modest terminus monument could be placed at the ATC-owned tentsite near Abol Bridge.
Yeah, if I were being asked I'd say both ends should be a trail head....but that's just my logic. Amialola makes sense on that end to me, and I'd say someplace past Katahdin might make sense for the North..... but what do I know...
Rain Man
02-11-2018, 21:09
First, build the trail and support facilities. THEN think about approaching Congress.
Uncle Joe
02-11-2018, 21:49
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Pinhoti still have some lengthy road sections? Shore that up and I think extending the AT is a fine idea.
Ain't gonna do it officially. Aren't there enough hiking trails already that connect to the AT that aren't being utilized or cared for? What's the constant infatuation with everything AT anyway if you really enjoy hiking? Ah, oh no, AT blasphemy. String up the rope. Light the fire. Aren't their already major threats to the AT?
Knee Jerk
02-11-2018, 23:24
I agree with Map Man: Start it (or end it for SOBO's) at the Amicalola Visitor Center - most people take the steps to the top anyway so why not give them credit for those 8 miles of approach trail.
Then end it (or begin it for SOBO's) with a nice monument at Abol and cut out the old fogey's at Baxter. If people still want to hike to the top of Katahdin, they can keep right on going.
Dan Roper
02-12-2018, 00:04
The Pinhoti does have long road-walk stretches in excess of 20 miles. And finding ways to close those stretches is going to be challenging. The problem is that the trail crosses the Great Valley of northwest Georgia, which in the valleys has relatively sparse public land and not much that folks would enjoy backpacking. (But if you want a truly wonderful experience, do the 15-mile stretch from Snake Creek Gap to Dug Gap, west of Dalton, which is lovely and unspoiled...except for the roar of traffic from I-75 which is unceasing).
I like having the termini of the AT off a trailheads. It gives hikers time to decompress a bit when starting or completing the trail, without a zillion folks standing around by their cars, being noisy. I know Katahdin can be busy, but it's only busy with people who work hard to get to the top. They are part of the club, unlike the biker gangs and motorists that often turn places like Newfound Gap into something like Wal-Mart on steroids.
But I do, personally and privately and for more than 40 years, consider the Approach Trail part of the official AT. It's just part of my hiker DNA after much reading about the AT when I was a teenager. "I have to do the Approach Trail" became part of my own creed.
FrogLevel
02-12-2018, 00:22
Sure, why not?
Sarcasm the elf
02-12-2018, 00:34
never gonna happen
This... and it would have taken me four paragraphs to write the sams thing.
rocketsocks
02-12-2018, 00:58
“It’s all the same trail man”~ Janis Joplin :D
Fake news
If the terminuses or termini...ha!....get moved....make them far easier to access.
Great idea. I am all for it as I am about to head out for my morning AT hike where already in mid Feb I will find throngs of thru hikers making the trail a muddy bog. And let's not forget the trash and TP blooms for a touch of color which of course add to the enjoyment of thru hiker season here in GA. I just can't wait for March & April as it gets so much better. Let Alabama hikers deal with this mess.:eek:
LittleRock
02-12-2018, 11:01
Can we put the first night's camping area in Nick Saban's back yard?
Tennessee Viking
02-12-2018, 11:04
Not going to happen. Too many roads, private land, and development on the Pinhoti trek.
I wouldn't mind Baxter end being moved to Cadillac Mtn/Champlain Mtn - Acadia NP if an appropriate corridor can be established. Or the supposed Katahdin Woods and Waters if created.
Captain Blue
02-12-2018, 12:02
I think the trail also misses Kentucky, right? Another Appalachian Mountain state.....
There are no Appalachian Mountains in Kentucky. The foothills of the Appalachian Mountainls aren't even in Kentucky. You've been drinking the media Kool Aid.
I, too, think the AT should be extended south -- but only 8.8 miles to the Amicalola Visitor Center. I also think the northern terminus should be somewhere other than inside Baxter State Park so AT hikers need trouble the Baxter caretakers no more. A classy, modest terminus monument could be placed at the ATC-owned tentsite near Abol Bridge.
just foolish on both accounts. Baxter is not the enemy - hikers who are self entitled jerks are the issue.
Not going to happen. Too many roads, private land, and development on the Pinhoti trek.
I wouldn't mind Baxter end being moved to Cadillac Mtn/Champlain Mtn - Acadia NP if an appropriate corridor can be established. Or the supposed Katahdin Woods and Waters if created.
Acadia is not part of the Appalachian chain...
Great Eastern Trail http://www.greateasterntrail.net has a much higher % of trail in Federally defined Appalachia (as in, basically all of it, except for portions on the edges of the Virginia Shenandoah Valley counties that opted out) than the Appalachian Trail does. Including some beautiful areas of KY, and a lot more of WVa. Its New York State county is still Appalachia (which, if you go there, you will believe).
ldsailor
02-12-2018, 13:45
I'm curious about what the ATC thinks of the article.
Hey Lauriep or anyone at the ATC. Are you listening?
If the GA section of the Pinhoti was like the AL section, I would be on board. Of the 170 miles of the AL section, only 15 are road walk and there are already plans to shorten it. Off the top of my head roughly 1/3-1/4 of the GA section is road, though. That's way too much.
Interesting to me since the southern Terminus of the Pinhoti is now the closest real hiking I have near my home in Louisiana, at least I think it is. It's only a matter of time before I hike at least the AL Pinhoti.
Can we put the first night's camping area in Nick Saban's back yard?
He lives on a lake, so plenty of water! :banana
I think the trail also misses Kentucky, right? Another Appalachian Mountain state.....
There are no Appalachian Mountains in Kentucky. The foothills of the Appalachian Mountainls aren't even in Kentucky. You've been drinking the media Kool Aid.
"The" trail? Kentucky already has a great trail... the Sheltowee Trace which could be called the Kentucky Trail. It's part of the GET. WHY does everything need to be AT related to be considered? OMG, zoom out folks. The world is larger than the AT.
I, too, think the AT should be extended south -- but only 8.8 miles to the Amicalola Visitor Center. I also think the northern terminus should be somewhere other than inside Baxter State Park so AT hikers need trouble the Baxter caretakers no more. A classy, modest terminus monument could be placed at the ATC-owned tentsite near Abol Bridge.
Baxter State Park is such an emotional and beautiful place. Is there a way for the ATC to provide a ranger for Baxter and other assistance before moving the trail? What is it worth? A lot in my opinion. Wild places such as Baxter need all of the help they can get. If people don't see it, will future generations want to protect it? However, we have to be open to the fact that the northern terminus may have to be moved due to the numbers. Also, based on the AT's increasing popularity, no matter where the trails starts and finishes, the fact that it's the AT will increase foot traffic. To me, more people hiking is good.
why was springer chosen to be "it" originally anyway?
Christoph
02-12-2018, 22:23
If anything, I'd say start it (NOBO) at A. Falls Park under the arch so more will be tempted to "log in" which could help with number tracking. Keep the northern end at Baxter or continue it on up the knife edge and stop at the bottom. I'm a traditional type though and although it's probably not going to change, I think they just need one more ranger or 2 at both ends, probably cheaper than moving the trail I'd think. Keep what we have and enforce it, problem is you'll have troublemakers no matter where you go though. My Baxter experience was very good and the 1 ranger I saw on duty was very nice. Same at the southern end, but they had more around the area.
Dan Roper
02-12-2018, 22:45
why was springer chosen to be "it" originally anyway?
Springer wasn't the original southern terminus. Originally, the terminus was about 20 miles to the south, atop Mount Oglethorpe. Development in that area led to repositioning the terminus at Springer (the Approach Trail, while no longer part of the official AT, was once part of the official AT).
There's lots of history about the old terminus on White Blaze (see the history tab). And see Earl Shaffer's Walking with Spring for his thru-hike account beginning there in the late '40s.
This drive to extend the AT has been going on---and stalled---for years. Occasionally local/regional papers stir the pot. Too many formidable obstacles (pun intended) stand in the way.
MuddyWaters
02-26-2018, 06:19
There a way more pressing issues with public lands than extending a fricking trail
Just keeping what have from being destroyed by greed and ignorance is one
Overcrowding of limited resources is another. Destruction of experience from within.
National parks were created when us population was much smaller.
Need to protect more land for future while we have it. What do you think will be left 100 years from now?
Can we put the first night's camping area in Nick Saban's back yard?
He lives on a lake, so plenty of water! :banana
Hey, leave Coach Nick alone. ROLL TIDE!!!!
Hey, leave Coach Nick alone. ROLL TIDE!!!!Such foul language should not be allowed on such a fine website as this.
Gambit McCrae
02-26-2018, 09:33
Great idea. I am all for it as I am about to head out for my morning AT hike where already in mid Feb I will find throngs of thru hikers making the trail a muddy bog. And let's not forget the trash and TP blooms for a touch of color which of course add to the enjoyment of thru hiker season here in GA. I just can't wait for March & April as it gets so much better. Let Alabama hikers deal with this mess.:eek:
Not a bad idea seeing as I dislike Alabama, it would become the only state on the AT I dislike lol
Not a bad idea seeing as I dislike Alabama, it would become the only state on the AT I dislike lol
You dislike Bama? I thought that was impossible!
OK..No Bubba Shrimps for you!
Gambit McCrae
02-26-2018, 12:29
You dislike Bama? I thought that was impossible!
OK..No Bubba Shrimps for you!
Only thing good to ever come out of Alabama was Forrest Gump, and if you noticed he ran out of there as fast as he could. So did Jenny
Only thing good to ever come out of Alabama was Forrest Gump, and if you noticed he ran out of there as fast as he could. So did Jenny
Uh, you ever heard of somethin called the Crimson Tide?
And Forrest ALWAYS came back to GREENBOW, A-LUH-BAM-UH!
So if you don't like Bama, you might just be a democrat. But even our last democratic leader - if his name had been Al - he would have been Al Obama! WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT???
Gambit McCrae
02-26-2018, 13:30
Well my name is Al, so I just don't like the way this is going
ok, Al. Sorry. I'm just kidding around ?
Gambit McCrae
02-26-2018, 14:11
ok, Al. Sorry. I'm just kidding around ?
Me too haha
I think the trail also misses Kentucky, right? Another Appalachian Mountain state.....
There are no Appalachian Mountains in Kentucky. The foothills of the Appalachian Mountainls aren't even in Kentucky. You've been drinking the media Kool Aid.
"The" trail? Kentucky already has a great trail... the Sheltowee Trace which could be called the Kentucky Trail. It's part of the GET. WHY does everything need to be AT related to be considered? OMG, zoom out folks. The world is larger than the AT.
In what mountain chain are the mountains in eastern Kentucky located?
I think the trail also misses Kentucky, right? Another Appalachian Mountain state.....
There are no Appalachian Mountains in Kentucky. The foothills of the Appalachian Mountainls aren't even in Kentucky. You've been drinking the media Kool Aid.
"The" trail? Kentucky already has a great trail... the Sheltowee Trace which could be called the Kentucky Trail. It's part of the GET. WHY does everything need to be AT related to be considered? OMG, zoom out folks. The world is larger than the AT.
You may want to contact these and other sites to let them know they've been "drinking media Kool Aid" in re Kentucky vis-a-vis the Appalachian Mountains.
US Geological Survey:
https://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/birth/
Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_Mountains
Britannica Encyclopedia:
https://www.britannica.com/place/Appalachian-Mountains
Appalachian Regional Commission
https://www.arc.gov/appalachian_region/TheAppalachianRegion.asp
New World Encyclopedia:
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Appalachian_Mountains
nsherry61
02-26-2018, 16:03
Everything has to be AT for publicity. :welcome So it all gets used as much as possible . . . and maybe maintained a little better.
So, if you have a trail that connects and you want it to get lots of use, make sure to make it part of the AT.
But if you love a trail that connects and you want it to stay beautiful and not worn out from traffic, make sure you DON'T make it part of the AT.
Emerson Bigills
02-26-2018, 22:36
With the ATC's push to have everyone start, or at least check in, at Amicalola VC, it really does much sense to "annex" the approach trail and have a starting trail head that can support the masses. There is absolutely nothing about Springer that you don't experience a hundred times on the AT.
As for the northern terminus, I think Baxter Peak is an epic finish. I was way past wanting to finish the hike and get home when I camped at the Birches. The next day was one of the 3 most memorable days of my life. Finishing at some ATC sign on a forgettable 3000 ft. mountain in Maine would be a travesty versus Katahdin.
The rangers I dealt with at Baxter State Park were fantastic. BSP has a designated camping area and shelter for long distance hikers and every ranger I spoke with went out of their way to congratulate me on what I was about to accomplish and gave me great advice on having the best experience in BSP and on the mountain as was possible. I walked away from Baxter a huge fan of the staff and the mountain. Don't change the northern terminus. Work with BSP to always have the AT finish on that mountain.
TimOnWhiteBlaze
02-26-2018, 22:57
Considering extension of the trail's length is tantamount to asking if you might like to spend more money.
nsherry61
02-27-2018, 09:58
I would love to see a designated scenic trail, incorporating the AT, all the way from the Gulf Coast to the Canadian Border. Kinda like the PCT and the CDT, border to border.
perdidochas
02-27-2018, 17:53
why was springer chosen to be "it" originally anyway?
It wasn't. The original southern terminus was Mt. Oglethorpe. (at least until 1956).
https://thetrek.co/springer-mountain/
Got it very wrong John B. TU very much for the correction. Please, very pretty please, with a cherry on top, correct me if you see that kind of obvious incorrect non factual opinion. I don't know what I was thinking...or if I was thinking. ;)
Hi Dogwood,
The Sheltowee Trace is not part of the Great Eastern Trail (GET). The GET component in Kentucky is the Pine Mountain State Scenic Trail (www.pinemountaintrail.com (http://www.pinemountaintrail.com)).
I think the trail also misses Kentucky, right? Another Appalachian Mountain state.....
There are no Appalachian Mountains in Kentucky. The foothills of the Appalachian Mountainls aren't even in Kentucky. You've been drinking the media Kool Aid.
"The" trail? Kentucky already has a great trail... the Sheltowee Trace which could be called the Kentucky Trail. It's part of the GET. WHY does everything need to be AT related to be considered? OMG, zoom out folks. The world is larger than the AT.
The ST isn't part of the GET? I'm getting schooled today. It's been a humbling day. TU, seriously.
The ST isn't part of the GET? I'm getting schooled today. It's been a humbling day. TU, seriously.
http://www.gethiking.net/p/the-great-eastern-trail.html
Considering extension of the trail's length is tantamount to asking if you might like to spend more money.
And organize for required greater maintenance...when so many trails already are in such need and exist that aren't being used anywhere to the extent of the AT. :confused: Aren't there already enough significant threats to the AT corridor and AT Experience? :confused:
Why, why oh why, don't folks get away from an AT centric world? Preserve what's already existing to some extent as much as possible. Arent there enough trails and miles to hike that aren't the AT?
Just Bill
02-28-2018, 19:16
Why not just finish up, link up, and promote the IAT?
In theory if you wrapped up the southern leg and literally connected it you would extend the AT south in all but name only.
I too like the idea of extending the trail north just enough to get into the national park and out of baxter... you still have a long walk after you 'finish'... might as well head down the mountain in a more productive direction in terms of improving strained relations. If nothing else... you theoretically have double the actual number of people there as the folks that plan to summit tomorrow and those summiting today all return to the same place at the end of the day.
At least if it was an up and over... instead of an up and down it would reduce the perception some.
Your visiting friends and family may be more inclined to book sites in the neighboring park and walk up the far side to meet you up top- further reducing traffic.
Or as Map Man said- kill it at the bridge. You want to walk to Katahdin... make your own arrangements within the parks rules like any other visitor.
If Alabamians want their own long distance trail.. let them build a separate trail that connects to the Southern terminus. I do agree.. the trail should be extended 8 miles south to Amicolala visitor center in amicolala state park. There are services there. Plus it would all us to dispense with the least prepared hikers before they even get to the summit of springer!! :D
We already have one, the connection drops if you want to call it that in GA where it hits the BMT. The road walks are actually a nice change of pace, I can say that because I walked the 20 mile road walk in GA a couple of weeks ago. I will do the ~12 miles in AL as I have time when I knock out the first third of the trail. The last third in GA has another 20+ mile road walk that from the pictures I saw from my hiking partner, didn't look to bad either.
The IAT has already moved the southern terminus north so that it no longer starts at the Baxter State Park boundary/end of the Katahdin Lake Trail. Also, Baxter State Park has closed/quit maintaining the portion of the Katahdin Lake Trail which connected to the (old) southern terminus of the IAT at the park boundary. They have separated a one time connection. There won't be an "official" IAT route in Baxter any time soon.
No apology necessary, Dogwood! The ST runs through Kentucky's Cumberland Falls Resort State Park (which is not the same as Lake Cumberland State Resort Park). The GET in Kentucky doglegs from the Pine Mountain State Scenic Trail through Cumberland Gap National Historic Park, connecting to Tennessee's Cumberland Trail (a.k.a. Justin P. Wilson Cumberland Trail State Park, whose headquarters is in Cumberland Mountain State Park). Confusing, oh yes. Even I had to look it up all over again, and I've hiked the GET through there twice.
The ST isn't part of the GET? I'm getting schooled today. It's been a humbling day. TU, seriously.
Who needs an official trail? Just get some maps, connect the trails as appropriate (road walk? existing single track? bike paths?), and say you went for a walk in the Appalachians. :)
42056
Here's a very informative website: http://www.thomaslegion.net/greatappalachianvalleyhistoryandmap.html
In what mountain chain are the mountains in eastern Kentucky located?
In a big way, the GET is just that! For me, it was an incredible journey through a part of the Appalachians that very few LD backpackers have traveled. I loved every moment of that trip and go back for long sections when I can.
Who needs an official trail? Just get some maps, connect the trails as appropriate (road walk? existing single track? bike paths?), and say you went for a walk in the Appalachians. :)
No apology necessary, Dogwood! The ST runs through Kentucky's Cumberland Falls Resort State Park (which is not the same as Lake Cumberland State Resort Park). The GET in Kentucky doglegs from the Pine Mountain State Scenic Trail through Cumberland Gap National Historic Park, connecting to Tennessee's Cumberland Trail (a.k.a. Justin P. Wilson Cumberland Trail State Park, whose headquarters is in Cumberland Mountain State Park). Confusing, oh yes. Even I had to look it up all over again, and I've hiked the GET through there twice.
Don't sweat it. I've thrued the ST twice and still mistakenly assumed it was part of the GET. :datz:datz:datz
You nailed in your PM why I made that mistake.
I'm shutting up now. I don't want to opine anymore. Batting avg for veracity is shot to he'll already on this thread.
No apology necessary, Dogwood! The ST runs through Kentucky's Cumberland Falls Resort State Park (which is not the same as Lake Cumberland State Resort Park). The GET in Kentucky doglegs from the Pine Mountain State Scenic Trail through Cumberland Gap National Historic Park, connecting to Tennessee's Cumberland Trail (a.k.a. Justin P. Wilson Cumberland Trail State Park, whose headquarters is in Cumberland Mountain State Park). Confusing, oh yes. Even I had to look it up all over again, and I've hiked the GET through there twice.
Also, the GET passes much closer to Cumberland, Maryland, than it does to the Cumberland Valley of Cumberland County, PA (where Boiling Springs is). I understand Prince William, Duke of Cumberland, was something of a jerk, but well known around 1750 just in time for place naming in what was then the Appalachian penumbra of Euro-American settlement.
I don't know if there is any connection to Cumberland Farms, though. :D
Confusion about the GET is normal. :-?
Don't sweat it. I've thrued the ST twice and still mistakenly assumed it was part of the GET. **snip**