View Full Version : packing out the tp
So, let's say you're gonna pack out your tp. And, in bear country, you're supposed to keep everything that smells together. This seems to present a conundrum of the grossest variety! ?
devoidapop
02-12-2018, 21:19
Double bag
Feral Bill
02-12-2018, 21:28
Separate TP bag with opaque zip lock inner bags. Hang outside your food bag. Or hike where extreme "LNT" practices are not customary. Quotes because you will leave some trace, regardless,
rocketsocks
02-12-2018, 21:28
Just throw it over your shoulder like a continental solder.
I always pack out tp. I have *never* even considered putting my used tp with my food nor do I know of anyone who ever has. Just keep it with your unused tp, separately bagged of course.
gwschenk
02-12-2018, 22:38
Whatever you do, please pack it out. Thanks!
MuddyWaters
02-12-2018, 23:53
If your TP actually has any significant poo on it you're method could use Improvement.
T P is for a final cleanse wipe. Using the correct position and natural materials first and there's nothing left. Focus on using minimal TP and there really isn't a problem.
People lived for thousands of years without toilet paper. Actually diet makes a tremendous difference.
If your TP actually has any significant poo on it you're method could use Improvement.
T P is for a final cleanse wipe. Using the correct position and natural materials first and there's nothing left. Focus on using minimal TP and there really isn't a problem.
People lived for thousands of years without toilet paper. Actually diet makes a tremendous difference.
Hey, what about all those other critters out there? They STILL don't have any toilet paper, and they're doing alright!
nsherry61
02-13-2018, 09:40
Geez, just wash yourself, then you're cleaner AND don't have to deal with tp.
Geez, just wash yourself, then you're cleaner AND don't have to deal with tp.
Catch 22.
Water, soap and wash cloth for washing self.
More water and more soap to wash the wash cloth.
In the desert. 20 miles between reliable water sources.
Got a plan for Old and Slow Fossils?
I know. We could stay at home. Not an option.
Wayne
TexasBob
02-13-2018, 10:50
Hey, what about all those other critters out there? They STILL don't have any toilet paper, and they're doing alright!
Critters have their own special tp, its called a tongue.
Catch 22.
Water, soap and wash cloth for washing self.
More water and more soap to wash the wash cloth.
In the desert. 20 miles between reliable water sources.
Got a plan for Old and Slow Fossils?
I know. We could stay at home. Not an option.
Wayne
Not really a fossil here, but hiking regularily in the desert.
I don't use any rag or wash cloth for the business, just water and maybe a tiny drop of soap.
Can do this with 200ml easily, and optimize down to 100ml by skipping the soap.
You won't die from reek as quick as from dehydration.
AllDownhillFromHere
02-13-2018, 11:50
I'd double bag, maybe even triple.
You don't need an opaque bag for the TP, when you're done with it, roll it into a ball with the clean side out. You might want to put some duct tape on the ziplock to reinforce the corners, etc, but it's not like you're looking at the business end of the TP. When you get to town, dump the little balls of wadded up TP in a toilet somewhere.
If your TP actually has any significant poo on it you're method could use Improvement.
So this is kind of gross but I find that "trail diet" produces relatively clean #2s that don't require a lot of cleanup. Use the town potty before leaving (having eaten town food the prior night).
I said it was gross.
gwschenk
02-13-2018, 13:19
Not as gross as finding someone else's TP!
Hey, what about all those other critters out there? They STILL don't have any toilet paper, and they're doing alright!
Critters have their own special tp, its called a tongue.
I don't think ALL critters can actually do that, can they? A human would probably have to be an Olympic --- well, oh, fagetaboutit! ?
gwschenk
02-13-2018, 13:45
I don't think ALL critters can actually do that, can they? A human would probably have to be an Olympic --- well, oh, fagetaboutit! ?
That's why you hike with a friend.:eek:
USE WET WIPES
Not tp.
Pack them out of course. I do this even when I hike in uncharted territory in AZ where there is literally no one ever.
1 or 2 wet wipes will get you cleaner than you are at home.
They come individually packaged at places like Wallmart or you can buy a very small pack of like 30.
Wet wipes can also be very useful in cleaning up cuts/scrapes or general body maintenance. They just beat tp to death.
To get yourself clean with tp it takes a LOT and then you have a much bigger mess. Also if your pack gets soaked you can lose all your tp.
nsherry61
02-14-2018, 08:48
Catch 22.
Water, soap and wash cloth for washing self.
More water and more soap to wash the wash cloth.
In the desert. 20 miles between reliable water sources.
Got a plan for Old and Slow Fossils?
I know. We could stay at home. Not an option.
Wayne
Not really a fossil here, but hiking regularily in the desert.
I don't use any rag or wash cloth for the business, just water and maybe a tiny drop of soap.
Can do this with 200ml easily, and optimize down to 100ml by skipping the soap.
You won't die from reek as quick as from dehydration.
Wayne, 3/4 of the world clean their back side with nothing but a cup of water. It really does work and work well. It is, however against the aesthetic that a lot of us North American types grew up with, so it takes a little practice. Also, if you are hiking in the desert and you body allows you to plan a little, hold off your doo doo duty until you are near your next water source so you can clean with as much water as you wish, without carrying it more than the many 100's of yards you will walk away from the water source before you dig your cat hole.
Double ziplock bag
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TexasBob
02-14-2018, 10:19
Wayne, 3/4 of the world clean their back side with nothing but a cup of water. It really does work and work well. It is, however against the aesthetic that a lot of us North American types grew up with, so it takes a little practice. .......
I am sure your backside gets nice and clean but I wonder just how well you can wash your hands afterward without contaminating everything you touch in the process. That is the part of your routine that gives me pause.
Cleaning with water is not only a practice, but also a philosophy.
Our civilized life long we get educated that all germs and stink and everything down there is bad.
Thats not true.
You easily could stand your own feces as long as you are reasonably healthy. Whats probably going to "kill" you is other peoples and animals feces.
Another point being the number of germs. Having cleaned yourself with water doesn't leave a dangerous amount of germs.
A third point being, when cleaning yourself with water its highly recommended to use one hand (usually the left one) for cleaning exclusively, and restrict eating (and handshaking) to your right hand.
If you obeye all of the above (and several other minor points I might have forgotten to mention) its safe and best LNT practice to clean yourself with water.
The bigger part of worlds population, doing this, are no stupid idiots.
Me, practicing the very same since decades when outdoors, am neither.
TexasBob
02-14-2018, 11:36
......................You easily could stand your own feces as long as you are reasonably healthy. Whats probably going to "kill" you is other peoples and animals feces.
Another point being the number of germs. Having cleaned yourself with water doesn't leave a dangerous amount of germs.
A third point being, when cleaning yourself with water its highly recommended to use one hand (usually the left one) for cleaning exclusively, and restrict eating (and handshaking) to your right hand..............
If what you say is true, why does it matter which hand you eat with?
To make double, if not triple sure no harmful germ can (re-)enter your diagestive system.
The same you would carry your gun (if ever you did) un-loaded and safety pin flipped, maybe even the ammu separate from the gun.
nsherry61
02-14-2018, 12:38
. . . I wonder just how well you can wash your hands afterward without contaminating everything you touch in the process. . .
As I have suggested in these forums in the past, my well washed hands, following cleansing my back side with water, are probably far safer for cooking your food with than the hands of someone else that wipes with TP and assumes they didn't get any contamination and didn't wash their hands as thoroughly with soap. Not to mention, my back side is way cleaner and thus chaffing and monkey-butt are essentially eliminated.
Reasons for using water in preference to TP:
1) Significantly more LNT unless your carry out your TP
2) Way more comfortable
3) Way cleaner back side, so . . .
-- Less stink
-- Less backside chaffing, diaper rash, or whatnot
4) Less to carry
5) Less resupply needs
Reason for using TP instead of water:
1) Squeamishness that doesn't allow one to touch themselves or clean themselves adequately
2) Tradition where there is nobody else to know whether you followed tradition or not
And, if you actually really believe that TP contributes to improved hygiene relative to washing with water, I challenge you to find responsible studies to support your theory. If real, it shouldn't be hard to find given how important improving hygiene is in a lot of impoverished parts of the world most of which are populations that don't have the tradition of using TP.
Should I go into conversations I've had with people from 1st world countries that wash with water and can't understand how us Americans can be so crude and gross as to wipe our butts with dry paper? Have you ever tried to skip showering in exchange for wiping your body down with paper towels. I guess that way you wouldn't have to touch your stinky armpits. Really, water helps a lot in getting clean, especially when cleaning your butt.
AllDownhillFromHere
02-14-2018, 13:40
Make sure you get your hand sanitizer out of your TP ziplock before you poop.
Don't disagree with your thinking. However, need to remind everyone that those cultures that wash their arse with hand and water instead of TP often times also eat with their hands instead of using utensils!!
Huge reminder---you will need to use one hand for arse wiping and the other for eating!!
Now go practice with your restroom visit and then immediately go and eat your lunch!! lol
MuddyWaters
02-14-2018, 14:22
Having been in one of them countries for the past 2 months, bathrooms are typically absolutely disgusting. The floors are soaking wet from their use of the Muslim shower. Foot track dirt mixed with water is mud. Mixed with God only knows what else.
So yes just paper is a hell of a lot more hygienic. Maybe not for your arsehole but for everything else..
And hey guess what it's not only you that eats with your hands, but if somebody likes you they get to feed you with their hands also. It's not that bad if they're like putting a piece of lamb in your mouth, but when it's rice with yogurt gravy on it..... Kind of messy. Also makes you hope their hands are clean and they don't have any communicable diseases.
nsherry61
02-14-2018, 15:19
Don't disagree with your thinking. However, need to remind everyone that those cultures that wash their arse with hand and water instead of TP often times also eat with their hands instead of using utensils!!. . .
Let's not get too deep into cultural stereotypes here. Although, most countries that clean their butt with water do NOT eat with their hands, yes, some do. And, doing so is obviously not a problem in most cases.
Having been in one of them countries for the past 2 months, bathrooms are typically absolutely disgusting. . .
So MuddyWaters, next are you going to generalize American hygiene to what you see while visiting the local bus station privy? That appears to be what you just did for whatever country you're in. Pull your racist head out of your back side!!
For contrast, in Europe, the last country I was in that washes with water, I stayed in a nice and very clean hotel with a nice bidet that made cleaning up quite pleasant.
For what it's worth, I challenge you to convince me or anyone else with a modicum of experience in Japan to suggest that we, in north American, are cleaner and/or more hygienic than the Japanese. Personally, I think the Japanese overdo it a bit. That being said, their toilet seats totally rock!!
nsherry61
02-14-2018, 15:24
Here's an interesting perspective. (https://www.quora.com/Why-do-we-use-toilet-paper-instead-of-water-showers-especially-in-the-West)
devoidapop
02-14-2018, 15:41
Public bathrooms in developing countries is probably a whole different discussion.
I am curious about the logistics of the back country bidet, as I've never done it. How do keep the dirty water from running down your legs into your socks and on your shorts while squatting?
Time Zone
02-14-2018, 15:44
Public bathrooms in developing countries is probably a whole different discussion.
I am curious about the logistics of the back country bidet, as I've never done it. How do keep the dirty water from running down your legs into your socks and on your shorts while squatting?
I would think that if your rear end is lower than your knees, that shouldn't happen.
MuddyWaters
02-14-2018, 15:46
Let's not get too deep into cultural stereotypes here. Although, most countries that clean their butt with water do NOT eat with their hands, yes, some do. And, doing so is obviously not a problem in most cases.
So MuddyWaters, next are you going to generalize American hygiene to what you see while visiting the local bus station privy? That appears to be what you just did for whatever country you're in. Pull your racist head out of your back side!!
For contrast, in Europe, the last country I was in that washes with water, I stayed in a nice and very clean hotel with a nice bidet that made cleaning up quite pleasant.
!!
When talking about rest of the world.....90% is dirt freaking poor.
Your talking only about the top few percent.
Im talking about the other 90% of ...the ...world.
Nothing i said is racist. Google muslim shower you idiot, its a proper term.
Clean? These people are very clean. They wash their feet , they wash their face. They live where water is precious, and they wash all the time. Hence...muslim shower its more than a bedet for your arsehole.
As usual at WhiteBlaze.
Way too much thread wandering.
Way Way too much information.
Have fun Y’all!
Wayne
Heliotrope
02-14-2018, 16:06
That's why you hike with a friend.:eek:
My sentiments exactly! Lmao!
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nsherry61
02-14-2018, 16:29
. . .How do keep the dirty water from running down your legs into your socks and on your shorts while squatting?
1) Make sure you have a water bottle ready for your clean hand to use. Yes, it is best to designate a clean hand (usually your right hand) and a dirty hand (usually your left hand).
2) Settle into the right squat. Spread your feet to slightly less than shoulder width. Lower your pants just to your knees, not lower. Then squat and you'll find that your but is lower than you knees and thus lower than anything except your shoes and ankles which are pretty easy to keep out of the way of things. This is the squat you want for deification or female urination anyway.
3) After you're done doing your deed(s), you want to poor water down your crack(s) from either the front or the back. Some people poor water down the wrist and hand of their dirty hand, others poor it down their back crack from well above the anus or down the front. Whatever method works for you. If you tilt your butt backward, water tends to flow better down your back crack to your anus. If you tilt your butt forward, water tends to run down the front of your privates a little better. Getting this right isn't easy. It takes some practice. Practicing in your bathtub or shower is probably a good idea if you don't want to spend a bunch of time with your pants down around your knees, outside trying to figure out how to get comfortable with getting your water to flow to where you want it when you want it to. Some people find little 250 ml or 500 ml squirt bottles helpful as they can direct the flow a little more directly.
A tip I got years ago suggested to make sure you are not wiping with your fingers and then trying to wash them off. Think of it like washing dishes in running water. You fingers scrub, but the water is doing the cleaning.
As you gain practice and skill, you will probably find that anywhere from 100 ml to 750 ml will be required to do a good job depending on the "personality" of your "movement". If water is in short supply, you can probably get by in most cases with about 250 ml (1 cup).
4) Once your butt is washed, some people dry off with a bandanna or TP, others just pull up their pants, letting their underwear wick away the moisture.
5) Finally, wash your hands thoroughly with soap and water. Some people are hand sanitizer fans, but, if water is available, I think soap and water has been proven to be significantly more effective at cleaning and sanitizing than sanitizer.
And, so long as you keep your water bottle above and away from your privates and you keep your clean hand as the only one touching your water bottle, you shouldn't need a special water bottle for cleaning unless you just like having a special squirt bottle. I actually find my Smart Water or cycling water bottles works very well for this.
This water washing stuff is just flat sub-optimal. The description in the post above is perfect proof. What a bunch of nonsense and over complication. What a mess!
Not only is it just far too complicated it is unnecessary altogether.
Once again. USE WET WIPES. It only takes 1 or 2 of them and they are easy to pack out.
They will get you just as clean as water without the mess and need for all that procedure above.
Save your water for drinking.
Leave the soap out of the wilderness also.
Jeeze!
Just to add some tiny details:
3a) After having done the business, do a coarse wipe with whatever material is available, be it a roundish stone, a pinecone, a wad of moss or grass.
5) Most often I'm finishing up the cleaning with a tiny drop of liquid soap, which automatically will leave the hand having done the cleaning job clean and non-smelly too
Apply some cream afterwards and it will clean next time much easier.
Plus, as usually the bathroom business happens close in time after breakfast and just once a day, at the very same occassion I'll clean my private parts with another drop of soap in the same run.
Really enjoyable to be all clean and good smelling down there!
When I'm low on water and still have to do the business, I'd skip the soap part.
This might leave you a bit smelly.
As being short on water usually happens in the desert, there are lots of strong smelling herbs around (Oregany being my favorit), and I occassionally grab a few leaves of one and rub it wetween the fingers.
I also routinely pick a few leaves every now and then and stick it into the chest pocket of my shirt, giving me the smell of a wandering herbs witch rather than a stinky hiker.
A few years back I equipped the bathroom in my house with a "Muslim shower", which the whole family really enjoys.
None of the negative effects MW mentions above appear.
Its a sad fact that very many people in the Muslim world (the Middle East that I know of) have zero sensibility for keeping (public) things clean.
But that doesn't render the whole water-cleaning thing bad.
Dude---this is way too much information!! ha
Why take something as simple as shetting in the woods and complicate it with third world country methods?
So just Hike Your Own Hike---and shet your own shet!
In the mean time I will keep walking and keep using toilet paper!
1) Make sure you have a water bottle ready for your clean hand to use. Yes, it is best to designate a clean hand (usually your right hand) and a dirty hand (usually your left hand).
2) Settle into the right squat. Spread your feet to slightly less than shoulder width. Lower your pants just to your knees, not lower. Then squat and you'll find that your but is lower than you knees and thus lower than anything except your shoes and ankles which are pretty easy to keep out of the way of things. This is the squat you want for deification or female urination anyway.
3) After you're done doing your deed(s), you want to poor water down your crack(s) from either the front or the back. Some people poor water down the wrist and hand of their dirty hand, others poor it down their back crack from well above the anus or down the front. Whatever method works for you. If you tilt your butt backward, water tends to flow better down your back crack to your anus. If you tilt your butt forward, water tends to run down the front of your privates a little better. Getting this right isn't easy. It takes some practice. Practicing in your bathtub or shower is probably a good idea if you don't want to spend a bunch of time with your pants down around your knees, outside trying to figure out how to get comfortable with getting your water to flow to where you want it when you want it to. Some people find little 250 ml or 500 ml squirt bottles helpful as they can direct the flow a little more directly.
A tip I got years ago suggested to make sure you are not wiping with your fingers and then trying to wash them off. Think of it like washing dishes in running water. You fingers scrub, but the water is doing the cleaning.
As you gain practice and skill, you will probably find that anywhere from 100 ml to 750 ml will be required to do a good job depending on the "personality" of your "movement". If water is in short supply, you can probably get by in most cases with about 250 ml (1 cup).
4) Once your butt is washed, some people dry off with a bandanna or TP, others just pull up their pants, letting their underwear wick away the moisture.
5) Finally, wash your hands thoroughly with soap and water. Some people are hand sanitizer fans, but, if water is available, I think soap and water has been proven to be significantly more effective at cleaning and sanitizing than sanitizer.
And, so long as you keep your water bottle above and away from your privates and you keep your clean hand as the only one touching your water bottle, you shouldn't need a special water bottle for cleaning unless you just like having a special squirt bottle. I actually find my Smart Water or cycling water bottles works very well for this.
nsherry61
02-14-2018, 18:42
. . . So just Hike Your Own Hike---and shet your own shet! . . .
Now that is a great quote! :banana
AND, we're NOT talking about 3rd world methods. I am baffled at the naivety in these forums when it comes to this topic. We're talking about alternative methods commonly used in 1st world countries outside of north America because they work very well and are very simple (in spite of my overly complicated description).
devoidapop
02-14-2018, 21:03
This thread is about deucing in the woods and how you clean up and pack out waste. If it bothers you, just scroll on by. it's really not a big deal.
Gotta say though, no chance I'm scrubbing with a pine cone. That's one step up from a wood rasp
TexasBob
02-14-2018, 21:29
To make double, if not triple sure no harmful germ can (re-)enter your diagestive system.
The same you would carry your gun (if ever you did) un-loaded and safety pin flipped, maybe even the ammu separate from the gun.
My bottom line (so to speak) is that I would rather have cleaner hands and a less clean backside and tp works better for that then your suggested method. I guess I have taken to many classes in microbiology, parasitology and food hygiene to believe that you can wash your hands well enough without running water to prevent cross contamination with the hand that is used on your backside. WYOW (wipe your own way) is my motto, to each his own.
This topic on alternative ways to clean oneself is exactly why I won't let others touch my food bag and certainly not stick their hands down into my trail mix!!
devoidapop
02-14-2018, 22:56
This topic on alternative ways to clean oneself is exactly why I won't let others touch my food bag and certainly not stick their hands down into my trail mix!!
And don't go for that southpaw handshake!
As someone who hikes in arid environments frequently that require packing out the TP, this is what I've been doing for over 12 years, including the PCT and many trips into the Sierra Nevada and other parts of California. I use a small sandwich ziploc to hold my used TP though a quart size one works fine and is often all you have when having to buy ziplocs in town. Seal dirty TP ziploc. Dirty TP ziploc, my clean TP, and my small alcohol santizer bottle are all placed into a second clean quart sized ziploc. Don't normally seal the second one completely unless it's going to rain. Put second ziploc into the back mesh pocket on my backpack so it stays outside with the fresh air. I've never had to put it inside the main compartment of my pack. Pack rain cover and sealing the ziploc keeps the TP dry when it rains. I've never put it inside my bear can or hung food bag and have never had a bear or any other animal try for it even when they did go for my food bag. If you are really worried, then as others suggested, hang it on the outside of your food bag when hanging it.
When you first hit the trail or come out of town after eating something you aren't use to, it may start out a bit messy. Though later, after your body becomes use to your trail diet and hiking can make you really regular, it isn't so messy. But if it is, I normally place the used stuff on the ground till I done wiping and then use the cleaner pieces to wrap the messier ones before putting them in my dirty TP ziplock. When you get to town or a toliet, dump your dirty TP out of the ziploc. Don't feel shy about reusing the dirty TP ziploc for weeks. But when your ziplocs start to look a little worn, it might be time to replace it.
Packing out your TP isn't a big deal and those that freak out about it makes me wonder just what sort of toxic waste is their body generating so it will melt plastic. Just what is their trail diet anyway?
Well, if you take one step back and have kind of an overview, you might see that its not only about packing out what you've brought in (be it TP or wipes).
Its also about, that those items have to be produced in the first hand, and after having put it in a bin correctly, whats going to happen with it?
Do you know about the waste treatment of the specific community responsible for the bin you put it in? Or do you just thrash it shrugging it off?
Another issue is the certain percentage of bathroom runs that don't go so well. Even the strongest and most honest advocates of packing out have to admit, that every now and then there is a situation when you simply don't do it, but secretly thrash the stuff on site. Sometimes even not having dug a proper cathole.
I'm honest enough to admit that I've done bad every now and then.
Now count in all those numerous people who use TP and don't even think of caring about it afterwards.
The world I'm living and travelling in is full of TP blossoms.
Take the PCT as a sample, where an estimated 5000 people crap in the desert every day, even if there is only such a low percentage as 10% making some kind of mistake, like, leaving the TP on site, or have it blown by the wind, then count the years it might take it to decay (if ever it does).
Some time ago I read here in WB, a ranger having stated "TP is the biggest issue on the PCT".
I highly recommend getting rid of TP (and wipes) completely in favor of washing.
He (she) who never thrashed the tiniest piece of TP is free to throw the first stone.
Wayne, 3/4 of the world clean their back side with nothing but a cup of water. It really does work and work well. It is, however against the aesthetic that a lot of us North American types grew up with, so it takes a little practice. Also, if you are hiking in the desert and you body allows you to plan a little, hold off your doo doo duty until you are near your next water source so you can clean with as much water as you wish, without carrying it more than the many 100's of yards you will walk away from the water source before you dig your cat hole.
Most cultures that use water and hand to clean themselves almost always use their left hand. This is why they eat with their right hand and if they want to insult you, extend their left hand for a handshake. Toilet paper isn't only a cleaning "device" it is also a barrier between your hand and your waste. I'd rather see people properly use toilet paper than trust them to wash their hand(s) thoroughly every time.
...Toilet paper isn't only a cleaning "device" it is also a barrier between your hand and your waste...
What kind of barrier this really is?
You'd rather use disposable gloves. And pack them out, of course.
...
Gotta say though, no chance I'm scrubbing with a pine cone. That's one step up from a wood rasp
Sorry, make that an European Spruce, the most common tree in the Alps.
Cones are smooth.
Regarding germs, we had a very interesting experiment at school 40yrs back:
The Biology professor setup a bunch of AgarAgar dishes and we were free to stick every nasty thing into them we could find. The nastiest we found was an old drinking straw stuck in a floors gap.
One mate right coming back from the toilet (and he confirmed he had washed his hands with water and soap) we asked to print his fingers onto the Agar (several others stuck their thumb in there, too)
Next week we were ready to look at the developed germ cultures:
The drinking straw hadn't provided any germs.
Most other dishes were so-so.
But by far the worst was the one from the toilet-user.
Obviously the towel the guy had used after washing had brought the worst germs.
Leo L
"I highly recommend getting rid of TP (and wipes) completely in favor of washing.
He (she) who never thrashed the tiniest piece of TP is free to throw the first stone."
Well I will throw the first stone them because I haven't.
Just no.
Getting rid of tp is a good idea and no one should be carrying tp into the wilderness.
Your washing idea and that of others is non-functional way too much of the time. And incredibly messy to boot.
Wet wipes are by far and away superior to any other options for many reasons. Just take them out the next time and use them and you will be sold.
They get you cleaner than anything else.
They do not leave residue on your rear end like tp always does.
They are fast to use. Try the washing mess in the middle of a whiteout, a driving rainstorm, high winds, etc.
They save you tons of water. In dry condition hiking water is precious and using a 1/2 liter or more to wash yourself is stupid. What if you are in the middle of a 20-30 mile 1 1/2 day water carry. You're going to use a liter to a liter and a half of water to wash your rear???
They are easy to pack out.
They have a huge variety of secondary uses which tp does not have. All items in the pack should be able to be used in multiple ways.
As explained before, I can easily get clean by 200ml per session, and can shrink the amount to 100ml if necessary.
Maybe it makes all the difference where I'm doing my hikes?
In the (Middle East) desert TP is almost non-existent unless it comes from tourists, and using water is the way to go anyway.
The max water I carried was 9 liters, which was good for about 3 days. Did not count the miles done, because it was very mountainous.
Here in the Alps water is everywhere in huge amounts and in best quality, so most often I'd carry only a small drinking bottle during the day, and get water for camp just on-site or close by.
So in both of my typical hikes it would make not much sense to not use water.
Honestly, I've learned about wipes here at WB the first time in my life, about the same time they appeared in my home (teen girldaughter, you know).
Tried, undertood the troubles, and stayed away since.
This thread is about deucing in the woods and how you clean up and pack out waste. If it bothers you, just scroll on by. it's really not a big deal.
Gotta say though, no chance I'm scrubbing with a pine cone. That's one step up from a wood rasp
Well it started out being about the fact that you want to pack out the tp, and you wanna keep all your smellable stuff in your food bag. Which just goes to prove every rule has an exception.
But I'm with you, bud. No pine cones or sticks and stones for me!
TexasBob
02-15-2018, 19:49
..........But I'm with you, bud. No pine cones or sticks and stones for me!
My wife won't go backpacking because there are no toilets, I can just imagine her reaction to "Here is a pine cone, go to it"
You people do realize this thread is in the PCT section. Parts of SoCal, NorCal, and Oregon have some very long stretches (30+miles) with no water sources where you are carrying all your water for the day. There isn't always water left over to clean up, especially when you are having to dry camp so all water for cooking is carried.
That said, while I am a TP user, when water is available, I'll also use a little out of one of my bottles to do a final cleaning up after the TP. Otherwise, build up of dirt, salt, etc starts to build up and cause a little redness between the cheeks after a few days when the weather is warm. By using TP first, it minimizes the water needed to a very tiny amount and pretty much all or at least most of the stuff you don't want to touch is already gone. That said, please don't use your wiping hand (for TP or water method) to touch other people's stuff, food you may offer them, or grabbing food offered from others.
It’s about time someone else recognized what I was talking about many pages ago.
Wayne
nsherry61
02-15-2018, 22:39
. . .Wet wipes are by far and away superior to any other options for many reasons. Just take them out the next time and use them and you will be sold.
They get you cleaner than anything else.
They do not leave residue on your rear end like tp always does.
They are fast to use. Try the washing mess in the middle of a whiteout, a driving rainstorm, high winds, etc.
They save you tons of water. In dry condition hiking water is precious and using a 1/2 liter or more to wash yourself is stupid. What if you are in the middle of a 20-30 mile 1 1/2 day water carry. You're going to use a liter to a liter and a half of water to wash your rear???
They are easy to pack out.
They have a huge variety of secondary uses which tp does not have. All items in the pack should be able to be used in multiple ways.
Wyoming, you're apparently arguing with experience from only one side of the story.
1) I did use wet wipes in the past for a year or so. They worked exactly as well as they work, which is pretty good, but extra garbage and
2) Wet wipes DO NOT get one as clean as water! If you clean with water, you will realize there is no augment here. Wet wipes do way better than TP, but they don't hold a candle water . . . unless you are limiting your water to 100 ml or so.
3) Cleaning with water is not particularly messy. I would suggest less messy than TP, but probably messier than wet wipes.
4) As for fast to use, unless you are wiping so quickly you'll often be leaving a fair bit behind (pun intended), I've found all methods take about the same, except water doesn't require the added hassle of dealing with the trash.
5) Leo addresses the water volume issue above.
6) Sorry, but wet wipes don't hold a candle to water for multiple use!!
Highland Goat
02-23-2018, 08:11
You migh consider an OPSAK, or another brand of odor-proof zip-top bags.
Another Kevin
02-23-2018, 11:09
So this is kind of gross but I find that "trail diet" produces relatively clean #2s that don't require a lot of cleanup. Use the town potty before leaving (having eaten town food the prior night).
It's not necessarily the diet, it's also the position. I find that I have a lot less cleanup to do after going 'squatty potty'.
When there's snow, clean up with a snowball. Remarkably effective, and not nearly as unpleasant as you might imagine.
AllDownhillFromHere
02-23-2018, 11:12
It's not necessarily the diet, it's also the position. I find that I have a lot less cleanup to do after going 'squatty potty'.When there's snow, clean up with a snowball. Remarkably effective, and not nearly as unpleasant as you might imagine.
Totally agree - silly commercials aside, I think there's something to the squat.
I'm thinking I need to call Zpacks and tell them there is a market for a DCF poop sack.
Might make some like the horses poo bags, lifting the tail opens the bag to catch the business:
http://bunbag.com/image/1894879.gif (http://www.google.at/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiBnZbvsLzZAhXQZlAKHarjBdkQjRx6BAgAEAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbunbag.com%2F257296.html&psig=AOvVaw2lq3vndSEksvtQcVV5tcU5&ust=1519487108762344)
I carry a special small container of water for after #2 and I just wash up. There's enough water to wash my bum and my hands, and the squat position leaves very little to wash off anyway.
Ladies really need to hear the pack out the TP message because there are a lot of toilet paper "flowers" all over the trail in the So Cal section and it's obvious that it's not day hikers because of where I've seen it. For pee, use a pee rag. The radioactive sun of the PCT will zap it and kill all the germs.
gwschenk
05-16-2018, 12:12
^^ Absolutely.
Time Zone
05-16-2018, 15:52
Sorry, make that an European Spruce, the most common tree in the Alps.
Cones are smooth.
Regarding germs, we had a very interesting experiment at school 40yrs back:
The Biology professor setup a bunch of AgarAgar dishes and we were free to stick every nasty thing into them we could find. The nastiest we found was an old drinking straw stuck in a floors gap.
One mate right coming back from the toilet (and he confirmed he had washed his hands with water and soap) we asked to print his fingers onto the Agar (several others stuck their thumb in there, too)
Next week we were ready to look at the developed germ cultures:
The drinking straw hadn't provided any germs.
Most other dishes were so-so.
But by far the worst was the one from the toilet-user.
Obviously the towel the guy had used after washing had brought the worst germs.
I was told a similar story on a school tour, about 10 yrs ago. Results: swabs from phones and keyboards grew more bacteria in a culture dish than anything else, including toilet seats.
Of late I've seen it reported that blow dryers for hands in restrooms are really good at spreading germs.
Another Kevin
05-16-2018, 16:18
Of late I've seen it reported that blow dryers for hands in restrooms are really good at spreading germs.
Don't forget door handles. Best technique is supposed to be to dry your hands with a paper towel and use it to open the door.
Feral Bill
05-16-2018, 16:35
Back on topic, doggy poop sacks were suggested as a good solution to packing out TP at a recent ruck. Get opaque. About 2 cents and 2 grams each. Of course, if you in a place you need to pack out everything, they are made for the job.
Thinking back, the triple-crowner who made the suggestion is a vet. She should know.
nsherry61
05-29-2018, 14:33
Back on topic, doggy poop sacks were suggested as a good solution to packing out TP at a recent ruck. . . they are made for the job. . .
On that note, they are made for the job of collecting dog poop AND being biodegradable (in most cases). So, those bags are light and cheap, but they are far from smell proof or durable, so make sure you bag your bags if the bags you collect in are poop bags.
As said, double bag. Don't worry about it. Really isn't as gross as it sounds after a couple of days.