View Full Version : Hikers and egos
I totally get the HYOH thing but it seems on here if you ask a simple question
It doesn't take long before you get ripped a new one
What gives. I will end up slugging someone if they talk to me on the trail like they do on here
Am I out of line in feeling this way? I love the site and most of the post!
You read into text and the written word whatever you feel like it without seeing the body language of the person replying. Most communication between people is non-verbal. A smile or a touch can go a long way towards softening a message.
In other words, quit being a sensitive Nancy.
I hear you! I had a 30 min lecture once by a “thru hiker” I met at hawk mountain shelter about why everything I was doing was wrong. I had just gotten out of an orthotic knee high boot after recovering from a nasty foot fracture, and was wearing a full boot. I needed the support at that time! He had brand new everything from rei and was eager to explain all his choices and why each was “the only intelligent option”. I was obviously unprepared because my pack was 25 lbs with 4 days food. His was about 45 lbs. What a jerk.
Dont let the jerks and *ssh@les get you down. People secure in themselves don’t worry about what their neighbors are doing. If you ask a reasonable question you will get many well thought out answers, a few trolls, and at least one hijack of a useful thread. It is the internet.
Enjoy the joy, embrace the suck and welcome to white blaze,
show me the monkey
02-16-2018, 18:12
You would rarely have trouble interpreting tone in person the way we do in writing. There are occasional trolls on this site, but most perceived insults are not intended that way.
Right on
But I had a guy make a snide remark about my kid and that's not cool anywhere
Sarcasm the elf
02-16-2018, 18:14
If you think this is bad, you should see reddit or some of the Facebook groups (mostly the thru hiker class of ....)
Christoph
02-16-2018, 18:29
Once people sit down.... keyboard warrior engages. Of course, you'll run into these on the trail as well, the knowitalls, the youshouldbe types, etc...
4eyedbuzzard
02-16-2018, 18:32
I read your thread https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/127529-My-kids-best-sections-for-them-to-hike-with-me and didn't see anything there offensive in any way. Did you get a nasty PM or something?
Tipi Walter
02-16-2018, 18:33
If you think this is bad, you should see reddit or some of the Facebook groups (mostly the thru hiker class of ....)
Yes, Facebook comments can get nasty. YouTube comments really get crazy.
Sarcasm the elf
02-16-2018, 18:34
I hear you! I had a 30 min lecture once by a “thru hiker” I met at hawk mountain shelter about why everything I was doing was wrong. I had just gotten out of an orthotic knee high boot after recovering from a nasty foot fracture, and was wearing a full boot. I needed the support at that time! He had brand new everything from rei and was eager to explain all his choices and why each was “the only intelligent option”. I was obviously unprepared because my pack was 25 lbs with 4 days food. His was about 45 lbs. What a jerk
Now that's funny, not the least of which because making it northbound to hawk mountain shelter hardly gives someone the clout to call themselves a thru hiker when giving advice. ;)
Reminds me of this excerpt from a satirical hiking blog:
"Try not to be too annoyed with that first time hiker who wants to talk about his eight-pound base weight and how you’re carrying all sorts of things you don’t need and how you’ll never finish with a pack that heavy. He’s been researching his gear for a year now and he’s just excited because he finally has the chance to use it.
Plus, he’s quitting next week. So you won’t have to put up with him for long..."
http://nighthikingtomars.blogspot.com/2015/03/appalachian-trail-sheltered-life.html?m=1
Turtle-2013
02-16-2018, 18:38
It HELPS to takes everyone's comments as .... "just my thoughts but hike your own hike" ... EVEN if that wasn't what they meant. No value in taking cutting remarks from people you don't know, and will likely never meet, too personally. Still, I have to admit that at times the comments people make, not even about my posts, cause me to stay off WB for a while on occasion. But, then I remember the incredible help I got in preparing for 100 Mile Wilderness from Helitrope ... and from Sarcasm the Elf in preparing for CT ... and from others when I couldn't find a shuttler .... etc., etc., etc. ... AND, I always come back. All in all this is a GREAT groups of people, who can share an incredible depth of experience ... and offer guidance ... as you figure out the BEST way to HYOH !!!!!!
colorado_rob
02-16-2018, 18:40
Lighten up, Francis....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OnpkDWbeJs
Write again and I'll kill ya
Lol
Last Call
02-16-2018, 19:09
One of the most thrilling things on the A.T. is happening upon a thru-hiker at a shelter or pic-a-nic table holding forth, they just have an air of majesty about them....
DBOW
One will occasionally run into asshats or trolls who are just trying to get a rise out of people as they get some form of fulfullment in causing trouble. It takes some time to recognize them and after that never read any post with their name on it or block them. A pain but necessary. And if you meet them on trail poke them in the nose one for me.
But mostly such events are miscommunications. The written language is very ambiguous and prone to be misinterpreted. Many times folks are sort of inarticulate and incapable of actually writing what they intend to. Even amongst native english speakers there are so many local ways of saying things which are not appropriate to the local ways of other places and that causes issues. Then there is always the way old folks and young folks talk to each other which can cause problems. It is endless.
Try to let such issues just pass you by most times. If you run into a troll then confront them, but if they persist there is nothing you can do but to ignore them and that hurts them the most (except for that poke in the nose if you ever get the chance). I have a list for the poke should I ever run into them, but I am getting so old it might be best if that never happens at this point.
rocketsocks
02-16-2018, 19:26
I totally get the HYOH thing but it seems on here if you ask a simple question
It doesn't take long before you get ripped a new one
What gives. I will end up slugging someone if they talk to me on the trail like they do on here
Am I out of line in feeling this way? I love the site and most of the post!C’mon, this is 2018, slugging will likely get y thrown off the trail, don't pass go don’t collect $200 dollars, I’d pull a recon on some shoelaces or pack straps.
I have never experienced any of the internet drama on trail - none of it. In general, people don't talk about gear or base weights unless asked. I have been asked about some gear and I'll answer questions but I never take that as license to critique another hiker's gear in general, and no one has done that to me either.
Granted I've not been in the AT "bubble" and I don't stay at AT shelters on my AT sections... Most of my hiking has been out west. Maybe egos are an issue on the AT during peak bubble season, idk.
Sarcasm the elf
02-16-2018, 19:57
Write again and I'll kill ya
Lol
Haha! That took me longer than it should have!
Haha! That took me longer than it should have!
Every board needs a big toe or two.
Easy to ignore if it ruffles your feathers. No ear plugs or head phones required.
It's the non face to face medium of communication most and current self absorbed insensitivities to blame, not WB in itself. Internet and non facial communication in itself leads to clear communication difficulties.
Every board needs a big toe or two.
Easy to ignore if it ruffles your feathers. No ear plugs or head phones required.
Yeah, like a Sgt Hulka. :D
One of the most thrilling things on the A.T. is happening upon a thru-hiker at a shelter or pic-a-nic table holding forth, they just have an air of majesty about them....
if you want to call the bad smelling air around them "majesty"
Hear you though. If my intentions were perceived as they sometimes incorrectly are on WB and I mis-interpreted others letting that atmosphere fester someone would be getting thrown into the campfire. It's vastly miscommunication. Then, letting it escalate. Be the bigger person. On the other hand if someone is intentionally being a complete d bag to your family or acting totally clueless a hole...be the bigger man. The fire awaits.
TexasBob
02-16-2018, 20:53
People say things on the phone or on the internet that they would never say to you face to face. Anonymity and distance makes some people feel brave and fearless when in reality they are just gutless with nothing better to do than jerk the chain of someone they never have to face in person.
Oh, oh how I want to meet face to face with them. If I eventually catch up with those gutless a holes who throw a thing at me when walking along the side of a road or while hitching or biking I might be posting on WB from a prison cell. All those Big Gulps, handfuls of loose change, McDonald's shakes, ice creams thrown at me and intentionally swerving at me experiences might cummulatIvely rise to the surface having me pulling them from the vehicle in a vendetta kind of mood. Just once. Then, maybe if my reverse road rage beat down goes viral on social media more gutless a wipes we'll think twice before doing it to others.
WB mini rants save on therapy visits. :p
Sarcasm the elf
02-16-2018, 21:44
Oh, oh how I want to meet face to face with them. If I eventually catch up with those gutless a holes who throw a thing at me when walking along the side of a road or while hitching or biking I might be posting on WB from a prison cell. All those Big Gulps, handfuls of loose change, McDonald's shakes, ice creams thrown at me and intentionally swerving at me experiences might cummulatIvely rise to the surface having me pulling them from the vehicle in a vendetta kind of mood. Just once. Then, maybe if my reverse road rage beat down goes viral on social media more gutless a wipes we'll think twice before doing it to others.
While I'm angry on your behalf that those things happened to you, I'm also surprisingly offended that someone would waste a milkshake like that.
Oh, oh how I want to meet face to face with them. If I eventually catch up with those gutless a holes who throw a thing at me when walking along the side of a road or while hitching or biking I might be posting on WB from a prison cell. All those Big Gulps, handfuls of loose change, McDonald's shakes, ice creams thrown at me and intentionally swerving at me experiences might cummulatIvely rise to the surface having me pulling them from the vehicle in a vendetta kind of mood. Just once. Then, maybe if my reverse road rage beat down goes viral on social media more gutless a wipes we'll think twice before doing it to others.
Wow, you've done way more hiking than I have but I've yet to experience anything like that.... that's terrible.
I'm glad I live up in the woods of the northeast where people are mostly nice.
MuddyWaters
02-16-2018, 22:53
I totally get the HYOH thing but it seems on here if you ask a simple question
It doesn't take long before you get ripped a new one
What gives. I will end up slugging someone if they talk to me on the trail like they do on here
Am I out of line in feeling this way? I love the site and most of the post!
People like to help those that help themselves
People get snarky when somebody shows lack of willingness to do this. Like....look for answer to common questions, before asking it.
I don't think ego has anything to do with it. In fact often the most experienced people are actually the most humble. After all it's just walking.
Some simple things are answered faster and easier just by using Google.
Alligator
02-16-2018, 23:24
It's the non face to face medium of communication most and current self absorbed insensitivities to blame, not WB in itself. Internet and non facial communication in itself leads to clear communication difficulties.Whazzat supposed to mean?
Whazzat supposed to mean?
Texas Bob posted about the cause of inflated insensitivities...non face to face communication. It's rampant on opinion based social media across a wide range of topics.
Since about 55 % of communication is physiology when its taken out of conversations or encounters it affects communication or relations, often negatively. It leads to greater unintentional disagreements or things being communicated that normally wouldn't in face to face communication.
dudeijuststarted
02-17-2018, 00:37
There are plenty of people on the trail to give their opinions and annoy you. That is why I hike solo, and I hike against the herds. As far as this internet forum goes, its an internet forum, I don't know of a single one that isn't full of argumentative people. Perhaps relax a little.
Alligator
02-17-2018, 01:35
Texas Bob posted about the cause of inflated insensitivities...non face to face communication. It's rampant on opinion based social media across a wide range of topics.
Since about 55 % of communication is physiology when its taken out of conversations or encounters it affects communication or relations, often negatively. It leads to greater unintentional disagreements or things being communicated that normally wouldn't in face to face communication.I don't know what ur trying to say but I definitely don't agree with ya.
Dan Roper
02-17-2018, 01:38
WB is a pretty doggone raggedy forum. This is partly because people in their 50s and 60s are so common (including me). We have lived long enough to have firm opinions based upon experience. Apparently, folks our age don't tolerate other opinions too well. And we seem to be grouchy too.
I'm not on Facebook or any other social media (hey, I don't have a cell phone or any other communications device either), so I'm not familiar with the decorum in other places, but this place is far more raw than some other forums I hang out in. Bird watchers, for instance, must be naturally gentle souls. And, believe it or not, I hang around a World War II forum with historians from all over the world and they are gentle folks.
But WB? Pffft. Last autumn's "Incident in Damascus" had to be the worst thread I've seen on WB since I started hanging around 15 years ago.
I hear you! I had a 30 min lecture once by a “thru hiker” I met at hawk mountain shelter about why everything I was doing was wrong. I had just gotten out of an orthotic knee high boot after recovering from a nasty foot fracture, and was wearing a full boot. I needed the support at that time! He had brand new everything from rei and was eager to explain all his choices and why each was “the only intelligent option”. I was obviously unprepared because my pack was 25 lbs with 4 days food. His was about 45 lbs. What a jerk.
Dont let the jerks and *ssh@les get you down. People secure in themselves don’t worry about what their neighbors are doing. If you ask a reasonable question you will get many well thought out answers, a few trolls, and at least one hijack of a useful thread. It is the internet.
Enjoy the joy, embrace the suck and welcome to white blaze,
I am 100 percent sure that i'm going to be picked apart by at least one pontificating hiker type up on Springer due to everything from physical condition to footgear to everything in between. I'll be disappointed if it doesn't happen as it'll shake my firm belief that no matter what the situation and/or terrain, you WILL find a grade A self righteous jerk.
My personal take on those types....You damn well better be walking on water all the way up to Katahdin and if you pull out, you better hope to hell i don't get further up trail than you did as i will never cease to break your balls over it. Lord help you if you see a picture of my mug next to the Sign of Signs.
Heading into all this, the only thing i can bring into a discussion with a certain expertise before we head out up trail is the matter of coping with and tolerating really crappy everyday living conditions and carrying on. Anything else (except for some of Shenandoah NP and a part of NJ/ NYC) i'll keep my mouth shut.
MuddyWaters
02-17-2018, 05:00
It goes both ways.
Some of the most annoying abrasive people were neophytes.
Insisted that they could do things their own way
No matter how ridiculous .
Really, really, ridiculous.
And occasionally succeeded. Winning hearts in process. While becoming a bit of a trail Legend.
https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?13082-MinnesotaSmith-Update&p=173995&viewfull=1#post173995
41915
Should be required reading for all.
You have to go back and read much of Minnesota's 3000 + posts to understand just how controversial the guy was and how outrageous his thoughts on hiking were and life in general. He carried many liters of bottled water even when not needed, he carried several rolls of toilet paper at any time he was scared to run out, he covered every square inch of his body to keep the sun off. He carried clothing for" date night.".
And he succeeded.
illabelle
02-17-2018, 07:42
https://whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/miscgreen/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Dogwood https://whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/buttonsgreen/viewpost-right.png (https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2194539#post2194539)
It's the non face to face medium of communication most and current self absorbed insensitivities to blame, not WB in itself. Internet and non facial communication in itself leads to clear communication difficulties.
Whazzat supposed to mean?
Exactly!
This is a thread about miscommunication. Dogwood, Alligator pointed out a relatively minor example of your signature style of miscommunication. I imagine it comes across okay face-to-face, but here on WB I sometimes shake my head at your posts and say "huh? what was that?????"
What is it exactly? Something about stringing together several stream-of-consciousness whether they're helpful or not verbose in excessive quantity torturous twists of vaguely referential sub-logical reasoning where are you going with this I can't remember where you started please just state your point so I can make it out oh God this is exhausting - phrases.
You're a good guy, I'm not slamming you, just givin' a lil' feedback. I know you pay attention because you USED TO POST with all sorts of EXCESSIVE EMPHATIC EMPHASIS, and you've stopped doing that. Love ya! :)
swatsullivan
02-17-2018, 07:56
You guys should check out a pilot forum sometime. Start with AOPA's "Redboard" (https://forums.aopa.org)
If you're fortunate enough not to be an AOPA member, then check out the Blueboard (https://www.pilotsofamerica.com) where you don't need to sign in to view posts.
Personally, I like the Purple Board (http://purpleboard.net).
lonehiker
02-17-2018, 09:38
You're a good guy, I'm not slamming you, just givin' a lil' feedback. I know you pay attention because you USED TO POST with all sorts of EXCESSIVE EMPHATIC EMPHASIS, and you've stopped doing that. Love ya! :)
I've always gotten a chuckle out of those that have an issue with reading words typed in upper case.
cmoulder
02-17-2018, 10:02
I've always gotten a chuckle out of those that have an issue with reading words typed in upper case.
I still chuckle at the beat-down I got more than 30 years ago when doing my first online posting on CompuServe forums using all caps — STOP SCREAMING!!!
And it does make sense... what do you do if you really want to scream??
As far as trail encounters with @$$holes, I've had only 2-3 over the years and agree that people are generally, and naturally, nicer and more reserved in person, and of course the visual clues as to intent.
Puddlefish
02-17-2018, 10:19
Everyone on the trail was far nicer than the people on these boards. I make a point to never post anything on these boards that I wouldn't say to someone's face on the trail. People get brave on the internet, they lose empathy, and tend to generalize much more... and they're probably perfectly nice to those they meet on the trail.
It's a lot harder to be mean to someone when your get to know them in person.
Hikers and egos- An overwhelming majority of hikers I've met do not reek of ego superiority issues but there have been some comical exceptions. I try to have fun with the situation as much as possible. First thing that comes to mind are the dime-a-dozen self declared "legends of the AT" who either hiked or skipped up to Maine. A SOBO will definitely encounter a handful of these folks.
One funny ego story that stands out happened on the CDT. I was supporting my girlfriend, who had already completed the TC trails and then some, when a legend in his own mind hiker decided that he wanted to tell her why she would not make it. Even after she made it clear that she knew what she was doing he wanted to ramble nonsense. He then asked "Have you ever heard of Team [so and so]?" He named a couple trail names and said yeah we did the AT together in whatever year. me: "Cool so you guys formed a hiking team?" him: Yeah, Team [whatever and such]. me "Cool. So did you like check each other for ticks and stuff?" Who knew there were hiking teams? "Nah, never heard of ya. Sorry bub."
rocketsocks
02-17-2018, 10:46
If after about 300 miles your ego is still shinnin’ through, just turn around and go home, you’re likely a lost cause.
lonehiker
02-17-2018, 12:16
[QUOTE=cmoulder;2194625]And it does make sense... what do you do if you really want to scream??
/QUOTE]
Exclamation mark.
a WHOLE LOT of this stuff reminds me of old Casey Stengel testifying before congress re. baseball, anti-trust. Google it. It's kinda hilarious.
After Casey finished his long-winded, rambling, nonsensical diatribe, they asked Mickey Mantle what he thought about it. "I agree with everything Casey said". It was funny!
(But -- you gotta be WAY OLD, to appreciate it) .
Yes, the thread is about miscommunication, maybe egos, and how it applies to WB. Reading the opening statement this is obvious.
It's the non face to face medium of communication most and current self absorbed insensitivities to blame, not WB in itself. Internet and non facial communication in itself leads to clear communication difficulties.
This was an incorrectly inadvertently posted statement. It wasn't edited correctly. It was made in haste. Sorry, if it created confusion.
I was regurgitating what Egilbe stated in post #2 or Showmethemonkey posted in #4 or Texasbob posted #25
Here's how that post was meant to be read: It's the non face to face medium of communication resulting in greater self absorbed insensitivities most to blame, not WB in itself. Internet and non facial communication in itself leads to communication difficulties.:)
I hope those corrections make that post's thoughts clear.
TU for noting. TU for the feedback. :)
[QUOTE=El JP;2194607]
“My personal take on those types....You damn well better be walking on water all the way up to Katahdin and if you pull out, you better hope to hell i don't get further up trail than you did as i will never cease to break your balls over it. Lord help you if you see a picture of my mug next to the Sign of Signs.”
You are wasting your time and energy. If I have no respect for an individual, their opinion and criticism carries no weight, and a quick way for me to lose respect is by being bombarded with unsolicited advice and criticism. Requested critique is one thing, criticism is another. I duck out of conflicts and arguing because it involves too much emotion, time and energy. If someone will cause himself or another serious harm, I will extend myself, otherwise mistakes are great teachers.
I enjoy my time alone in the woods, even though I may never reach the “Sign of Signs” . I am able to decompress and let life happen. ‘Don’t worry about the small stuff, it’s all small stuff’. HYOH ;*)
I don't think the OP was talking about trail encounters, but replies to posts on WB. I agree with him that there seem to be a lot of people on this site who think they are right and they know it.
Slo-go'en
02-17-2018, 13:27
It is amazing how defensive and pee'd off some people get when you see them struggling and offer some friendly advice.
Like suggesting they would have an easier time if they got rid of the 50 feet of climbing rope, the machete, the gun, the unruly dog and replace their department store tent and sleeping bag with something a bit lighter. (I don't believe that guy make it half way through GA).
Tipi Walter
02-17-2018, 18:52
I hear you! I had a 30 min lecture once by a “thru hiker” I met at hawk mountain shelter about why everything I was doing was wrong. I had just gotten out of an orthotic knee high boot after recovering from a nasty foot fracture, and was wearing a full boot. I needed the support at that time! He had brand new everything from rei and was eager to explain all his choices and why each was “the only intelligent option”. I was obviously unprepared because my pack was 25 lbs with 4 days food. His was about 45 lbs. What a jerk.
Dont let the jerks and *ssh@les get you down. People secure in themselves don’t worry about what their neighbors are doing. If you ask a reasonable question you will get many well thought out answers, a few trolls, and at least one hijack of a useful thread. It is the internet.
Enjoy the joy, embrace the suck and welcome to white blaze,
You post reminds of a phenomenon I see regularly when I backpack the Appalachian Trail---Thruhikers holding court at trail shelters. They usually like to sit down somewhere in the shelter or at the picnic table and "hold court"---meaning they will now take your questions BUT WILL NEVER ask any questions of their own.
It seems to be an infectious disease and seems to only occur on the AT. I wrote this assessment a couple years ago---
"What is Holding Court? It's when a guy has been on the AT for 3 months and has suddenly become a cool trail guru Who Will Now Take Your Questions. They sit with smug aloofness and will themselves never ask a single question from anyone but eagerly anticipate YOUR questions. It's depressing and so I get away from a shelter as quick as possible and set up camp far away, with my water from the spring near the shelter.
I'd rather talk to the rattlesnakes and red newts."
As an example I remember one time in the Mt Rogers area by the Thomas Knob shelter I was listening to a guy talk on and on about his knowledge and trail experience and all the nights he's been out and when he took a breath I asked him, "What's it like to backpack and camp in the snow?" I'll never forget his answer: "I've never gone out in the snow."
Everyone on the trail was far nicer than the people on these boards.
It a large community and some people just think differently.
I would be hard pressed to find examples of people not being nice — at least in the way I think of the word.
It's newbie LD hike attempters Tipi ate deemed "experts" by themselves or others. And, let's face it there exists some usually added level of intrigue of what life is like 5 months hiking day in day out wk after wk month after month through the seasons. This leads to many questions asked to these folks. Then, they do seem to be "holding court." I see this much much less in those that live a hiking life. These folks in person are much less opionated unless asked and are more go with the flow.
Thefurther
02-18-2018, 06:14
there are some people out there that need to feel important . just ignore it man and hike on . i just laugh people off that know it all . your not going to change the situation so why even worry about it . do not let the minor details take up space in your head dude . i look at everything in life as a learning situation . the people that know it all have stopped learning bro. . something else i want to throw out there is something i live by you will never know until you try it yourself . living through others experience leaves you wondering and unsure . just get out there and do it .... close your eyes and make the leap ...
cmoulder
02-18-2018, 08:27
there are some people out there that need to feel important . just ignore it man and hike on . i just laugh people off that know it all . your not going to change the situation so why even worry about it . do not let the minor details take up space in your head dude . i look at everything in life as a learning situation . the people that know it all have stopped learning bro. . something else i want to throw out there is something i live by you will never know until you try it yourself . living through others experience leaves you wondering and unsure . just get out there and do it .... close your eyes and make the leap ...
Good advice. Most times it's easy enough to excuse oneself from these situations and, if you don't use shelters, rarely encountered in the first place.
MuddyWaters
02-18-2018, 09:53
there are some people out there that need to feel important . just ignore it man and hike on . i just laugh people off that know it all . your not going to change the situation so why even worry about it . do not let the minor details take up space in your head dude . i look at everything in life as a learning situation . the people that know it all have stopped learning bro. . something else i want to throw out there is something i live by you will never know until you try it yourself . living through others experience leaves you wondering and unsure . just get out there and do it .... close your eyes and make the leap ...
Only a fool disregards others advice blindly.
Everybody knows something worth learning from them.
Everybody knows less than you about something as well.
Being able to discern the difference, is what's important.
For every blowhard that "holds court", there's several newbies that didnt listen to seasoned advice because "it doesn't apply to them". Their suffering beats them into submission eventually.
A symbiotic relationship.
Puddlefish
02-18-2018, 10:32
It a large community and some people just think differently.
I would be hard pressed to find examples of people not being nice — at least in the way I think of the word.
One example: I've seen a whole lot of anger and bile directed at poor people on these boards. Bootstrappy preaching type crap. Get a job, don't beg. Perhaps they didn't intend to be mean, but they have no idea what the poster may have overcome just to get to the point where they want to improve their life by enjoying the trail. They don't know what resources they may have lacked, or really anything about them. Then, they're driven away from these boards when they've done absolutely nothing that impacts us over the internet.
On the trail, I met a whole lot of poor people just trying to get by, and no one gave them any grief. No one on the trail said, get a job, save some money, take care of your responsibilities at home!
lonehiker
02-18-2018, 10:51
The banter on-trail is different than questions asked on-line...
Many posters aren't looking for true critique but rather validation. When they don't get it (validation) they interpret the responders as being mean etc. When I respond to a post I simply state how/what I do or believe. It is up to the OP to take that information, and information from other responders, and determine how, or if, they can apply it to their situation. Remember that there is often times more than one right answer and don't forget the old adage, "be careful what you ask for, you just might get it."
4eyedbuzzard
02-18-2018, 11:12
One example: I've seen a whole lot of anger and bile directed at poor people on these boards. Bootstrappy preaching type crap. Get a job, don't beg. Perhaps they didn't intend to be mean, but they have no idea what the poster may have overcome just to get to the point where they want to improve their life by enjoying the trail. They don't know what resources they may have lacked, or really anything about them. Then, they're driven away from these boards when they've done absolutely nothing that impacts us over the internet.
On the trail, I met a whole lot of poor people just trying to get by, and no one gave them any grief. No one on the trail said, get a job, save some money, take care of your responsibilities at home!
I think a lot of people who CHOOSE or have CHOSEN not to hike because of financial limitations or life responsibilities probably do resent someone asking for a handout to go off and choose to hike for 6 month when they haven't put much effort into making the life choices to gain what is a privilege (taking 6 months do pursue a hike). While hiking and enjoying the trail may well improve one's life, hiking isn't some sort of unalienable right. I certainly can see their point. We are bombarded with solicitation for money from charities, civic groups, politicians, and others, virtually every day of our lives. But rarely (actually never) have I had anyone try to hit me up for money (either in person or on an internet board) to go play a round of golf, or go on a cruise, or the countless other recreational pursuits that also improve one's life. Just the flip side of that coin.
Puddlefish
02-18-2018, 11:28
I think a lot of people who CHOOSE or have CHOSEN not to hike because of financial limitations or life responsibilities probably do resent someone asking for a handout to go off and choose to hike for 6 month when they haven't put much effort into making the life choices to gain what is a privilege (taking 6 months do pursue a hike). While hiking and enjoying the trail may well improve one's life, hiking isn't some sort of unalienable right. I certainly can see their point. We are bombarded with solicitation for money from charities, civic groups, politicians, and others, virtually every day of our lives. But rarely (actually never) have I had anyone try to hit me up for money (either in person or on an internet board) to go play a round of golf, or go on a cruise, or the countless other recreational pursuits that also improve one's life. Just the flip side of that coin.
Again, it comes down to a HYOH mentality. I met one old guy on the trail. He got fired, had resultant marital troubles, no savings, no education, no real desirable job skills. He just started walking from Florida and ended up on the trail. His equipment was barely functional castoffs. Who am I to tell him not to hike? He didn't adversely affect my hike the slightest bit.
Who knows what the alternative was for him. Maybe he'd have killed himself, maybe he'd have beat his wife and dog, maybe he'd have become homeless under a bridge robbing people for drug money...
If the guy wants to hike the trail and clear his mind, while being around other people, then that's his business. If he wanted to start a gofundme, again, that's his business.
People beg for money and spend it on vacations and mansions and yachts all the time. There's a whole prosperity gospel industry. It seems kind of rude to drive away potential hikers from this forum because some of us don't think they're worthy. You can choose not to contribute without calling them vermin.
Adventure Sack
02-18-2018, 11:56
Let's be honest.. people are just so triggered by the smallest, dumbest things. Everyone has a way to take a completely unrelated issue and make it
so they become the victim. Everyone has a voice now and everyone thinks they're ***** don't stank. Esp behind the keyboard. Just take whatever someone says to you with a grain of salt, remember they don't know you, and go on your way. A lot of people need to fight online because they're deficient in something else in their life.. they're girlfriend left them, they're job sucks, they're in debt.. Just be you and you'll be fine.
MuddyWaters
02-18-2018, 12:07
People beg for money and spend it on vacations and mansions and yachts all the time. There's a whole prosperity gospel industry. It seems kind of rude to drive away potential hikers from this forum because some of us don't think they're worthy. You can choose not to contribute without calling them vermin.
Out right begging for money to go on vacation is......up to those that contribute.
But worse is begging on trail. Because then you are takeing advantage of people not wanting to see someone suffer. The argument that people that don't have to help somebody doesn't float, most people have too kind of hearts not to help even if they really don't want to. This is what all Moochers know and prey on. Theres every right to criticize those scum. So that comes back to having enough money to hike or not.
You certainly don't need cool gear. Grandma Gatewood hiked it three times with the laundry Sack , a wool army blanket and a shower curtain. But you do need to plan to realistically be self-sufficient.
At some point there's an obligation to help as well. I met a guy on the pct at a fairly gross water source who had no way to treat the water. I gave him enough aquamira to get to the next road crossing and told him to get off trail till he could figure out his water strategy. You can't responsibly walk by if someone's life is in danger.
Puddlefish
02-18-2018, 12:24
Out right begging for money to go on vacation is......up to those that contribute.
But worse is begging on trail. Because then you are takeing advantage of people not wanting to see someone suffer. The argument that people that don't have to help somebody doesn't float, most people have too kind of hearts not to help even if they really don't want to. This is what all Moochers know and prey on. Theres every right to criticize those scum. So that comes back to having enough money to hike or not.
You certainly don't need cool gear. Grandma Gatewood hiked it three times with the laundry Sack , a wool army blanket and a shower curtain. But you do need to plan to realistically be self-sufficient.
Didn't Grandma Gatewood also knock on people's front doors and ask to spend the night? Relying on the hospitality of strangers? Escaping domestic violence? I suspect if she posted on these boards today, some of us would tell her to get lost.
Only a fool disregards others advice blindly.
Everybody knows something worth learning from them.
Everybody knows less than you about something as well.
It's good to keep this always in mind.
So many so often lead a contentious regularly offended easily irritated (triggered) life. Where's the love, joy, peace, kindness, humbliness, self control, patience, forbearance, and gratitude?
Looking at some of my own posts I could have walked in more of the later.
Puddlefish
02-18-2018, 12:30
It's good to keep this always in mind.
So many so often lead a contentious regularly offended easily irritated (triggered) life. Where's the love, joy, peace, kindness, humbliness, self control, patience, forbearance, and gratitude?
Looking at some of my own posts I could have walked in more of the later.
Heh, I'm very glad the internet didn't exist when I was a young, far more opinionated person. At least my idiocy then hasn't been preserved on the web.
MuddyWaters
02-18-2018, 12:33
Didn't Grandma Gatewood also knock on people's front doors and ask to spend the night? Relying on the hospitality of strangers? Escaping domestic violence? I suspect if she posted on these boards today, some of us would tell her to get lost.
That used to be very common. There were extremely few services for travellers in rural areas. In 1800s, that was all you could do . Someone often let you sleep in their haystack.
As for pay options become available, people are expected to use them
4eyedbuzzard
02-18-2018, 16:26
Again, it comes down to a HYOH mentality. I met one old guy on the trail. He got fired, had resultant marital troubles, no savings, no education, no real desirable job skills. He just started walking from Florida and ended up on the trail. His equipment was barely functional castoffs. Who am I to tell him not to hike? He didn't adversely affect my hike the slightest bit.
Who knows what the alternative was for him. Maybe he'd have killed himself, maybe he'd have beat his wife and dog, maybe he'd have become homeless under a bridge robbing people for drug money...
If the guy wants to hike the trail and clear his mind, while being around other people, then that's his business. If he wanted to start a gofundme, again, that's his business.
People beg for money and spend it on vacations and mansions and yachts all the time. There's a whole prosperity gospel industry. It seems kind of rude to drive away potential hikers from this forum because some of us don't think they're worthy. You can choose not to contribute without calling them vermin.For the most part, we are not talking about destitute people that solicit money for hiking on these boards. Many (no, not all) of these people seem to have computers, cell phones, food, some form of housing, etc. Maybe their job sucks, or their spouse left them, or maybe...whatever. Guess what? EVERYBODY has issues in life. But they seem to be getting on with life, which yes, can be a struggle (welcome to the real world), and isn't always what we want it to be. Amazing, huh? So yeah, they have all sorts of energy and ambition - and dreams, of course - except when it comes to working and sacrificing to take their vacation from the reality of life. Sorry, just no sympathy here. I'm not the one actively seeking them out. They choose to publicly panhandle. And sometimes the replies are going to go beyond a simple, "No, Thank you." Mostly because we as a society have this ethical belief that encouraging such behavior doesn't lead to a better society. That said, comparing presumptuous hikers to con man preachers in Rolls-Royces and Learjets is beyond even my contempt.
FYOH (Fund your own hike)
Hmm, maybe it's ironic when spoiled US citizens complain about public panhandling and vacations when others are involved?
Puddlefish
02-18-2018, 17:03
For the most part, we are not talking about destitute people that solicit money for hiking on these boards. Many (no, not all) of these people seem to have computers, cell phones, food, some form of housing, etc. Maybe their job sucks, or their spouse left them, or maybe...whatever. Guess what? EVERYBODY has issues in life. But they seem to be getting on with life, which yes, can be a struggle (welcome to the real world), and isn't always what we want it to be. Amazing, huh? So yeah, they have all sorts of energy and ambition - and dreams, of course - except when it comes to working and sacrificing to take their vacation from the reality of life. Sorry, just no sympathy here. I'm not the one actively seeking them out. They choose to publicly panhandle. And sometimes the replies are going to go beyond a simple, "No, Thank you." Mostly because we as a society have this ethical belief that encouraging such behavior doesn't lead to a better society. That said, comparing presumptuous hikers to con man preachers in Rolls-Royces and Learjets is beyond even my contempt.
FYOH (Fund your own hike)
Got it. You're just better than they are. Continue to express your disdain of those who aren't making the same choices that you are.
lonehiker
02-18-2018, 19:49
At some point there's an obligation to help as well. I met a guy on the pct at a fairly gross water source who had no way to treat the water. I gave him enough aquamira to get to the next road crossing and told him to get off trail till he could figure out his water strategy. You can't responsibly walk by if someone's life is in danger.
How was his life in danger?
Sarcasm the elf
02-18-2018, 20:35
Got it. You're just better than they are. Continue to express your disdain of those who aren't making the same choices that you are.
How exactly does giving somebody prudent advice make you better than them, especially when they asked for the advice in the first place?
Lack of funds is one of the top reasons that people abort their thru hikes and the average amount of money spent if fairly well known. When someone with no experience comes here and asks for advice on how to thru hike on a quarter of the budget that most experienced hikers can manage then "get more money" is a realistic and appropriate answer. I know that several times in my life while full of foolish enthusiasm I've tried to get involved in something without appropriate knowledge of what I'm doing. Having someone pull me aside to tell me "hey kid, you don't realize what you're getting yourself into." might not have been what I wanted to hear at the time, but it has saved me from both financial and literal ass-kickings on several occasions.
I agree that sometimes the tone of people's responses could use some improvement, but warning someone who doesn't know better that they are making a bad decision doesn't automatically make somebody a snob.
Thefurther
02-18-2018, 21:09
i see people saying that they are straight forward on here and that is awesome but being a straight jerk is not ok . why in the world would anyone want to be rude and think it is ok . why would anyone want to hurt others feelings ? there is a reason this post being up and if you go through just this post there is some rude comments . i do a lot for hikers out here and when i say i do a lot for the hiking community i mean i give my blood , sweat and tears out here . i have walked into the woods to rescue hikers that could not make it out on their own because they were to sick , to old , or just couldn't hack it. i have picked up trash that people leave behind on the dirt roads and at gaps . i have given rides to people that were on a budget for free . i bring money into the community and help keep the towns going and i give hikers a way to feel comfortable as they do their hike . i have shoveled dirt from parking lots and brought water to the gaps when there is a shortage on water . the way i have been treated on here is not very cool . i have been called a fool and a blowhard in a round about way . i have been questioned about answers i gave to a person needing to know answers about starting a shuttle service and just now i was told to hike my own hike because i told someone they needed a canister from jarrard to neels and if he was going to walk through he did not need it . i'm not sure why people are so rude on here but it is not cool . why in the world would anyone want to act like that . i see where people say it is ok to be rude because they are older and that is that . does being older give you a free ticket to be a dick ??? really ??? there are new people coming out to experience something they hear is awesome and soul lifting and that everyone is nice . when you get on here all you see is fighting and people having the answers to everything and if someone says anything you jump down their throat just like what this post says or asks . this is not a very good impression for new hikers to see .... have a good day .
I think some of us are watching two completely different movies.
To help further the discussion, could someone post a handful of links to posts they found to be extremely rude?
Puddlefish
02-18-2018, 22:00
How exactly does giving somebody prudent advice make you better than them, especially when they asked for the advice in the first place?
Lack of funds is one of the top reasons that people abort their thru hikes and the average amount of money spent if fairly well known. When someone with no experience comes here and asks for advice on how to thru hike on a quarter of the budget that most experienced hikers can manage then "get more money" is a realistic and appropriate answer. I know that several times in my life while full of foolish enthusiasm I've tried to get involved in something without appropriate knowledge of what I'm doing. Having someone pull me aside to tell me "hey kid, you don't realize what you're getting yourself into." might not have been what I wanted to hear at the time, but it has saved me from both financial and literal ass-kickings on several occasions.
I agree that sometimes the tone of people's responses could use some improvement, but warning someone who doesn't know better that they are making a bad decision doesn't automatically make somebody a snob.
I fully support giving people advice about saving funds for a hike, and suggesting that they'll have a more enjoyable hike if they can manage to do so, and about warning them. It often crosses the line when they start moralizing about it and making it a question of work ethic, about generation, about weakness. It's a hiking forum, driving people away by calling them names, is not the same thing as giving them sound financial advice.
Sarcasm the elf
02-18-2018, 23:53
I fully support giving people advice about saving funds for a hike, and suggesting that they'll have a more enjoyable hike if they can manage to do so, and about warning them. It often crosses the line when they start moralizing about it and making it a question of work ethic, about generation, about weakness. It's a hiking forum, driving people away by calling them names, is not the same thing as giving them sound financial advice.
That's certainly fair, as RickB says above we may have different posts in mind. I'm only defending the ones that are respectfully blunt, not the ones that are abusive.
Sarcasm the elf
02-19-2018, 01:28
On the related subject of egos on WB vs other sites, I've realized that in the last 24 hours I've been blocked by at least two people on the Facebook section hiker's group for very politely trying to explain that their basic assumptions about black bears. During the conversation the same two people also blocked a well known hiker (ajd then bragged about it) for making comments about food storage techniques that would have been considered non-controversal on this site. It just adds to my personal opinion that WB isn't perfect, but for the internet it's pretty darn good.
rocketsocks
02-19-2018, 01:43
I learned the “stick and stones” rhyme a very long time ago, it still serves me well to this day. Much of what people bitch about seem to be just over reactions.
On the related subject of egos on WB vs other sites, I've realized that in the last 24 hours I've been blocked by at least two people on the Facebook section hiker's group for very politely trying to explain that their basic assumptions about black bears. During the conversation the same two people also blocked a well known hiker (ajd then bragged about it) for making comments about food storage techniques that would have been considered non-controversal on this site. It just adds to my personal opinion that WB isn't perfect, but for the internet it's pretty darn good.
dude you were arguing statistics and false equivalencies i should block you just for that alone. Bears are serious bidness!!
oh and this thread may very well be the whitestblaze thread ever.
Sarcasm the elf
02-19-2018, 02:26
dude you were arguing statistics and false equivalencies i should block you just for that alone. Bears are serious bidness!!
oh and this thread may very well be the whitestblaze thread ever.
The false equivalencies comment wasn't the first discussion, he'd previously hurled vulgarities at others for making fairly reasonable statements. As I said, I really do find this site more civil and mature than others. Also, this is a long shot, but is there any chance you are the Bill guy who was also commenting? If so I think we'e get along.
Not sure I fully understand the "WBist thread", I see it as us discussing our own actions on the site, nothing wrong with reflecting on what is and isn't useful or appropriate to post.
I'm one of the broke hikers. It wasn't flush from the get go and it's even worse now due to a bunch of reasons, a few beyond my control.
I'm stepping off from Springer anyway.
What happens, happens, and i don't believe in begging either. I spent about 5 years on the streets, never panhandled once and i don't intend to start on the AT. If anything i would accept loans which, as always, are paid back with a little something extra as interest. And damn right i'm going to hit up people i've known for years. When i have, i kick in so it's time to return the favor.
One way or the other things will get done.
fastfoxengineering
02-19-2018, 03:42
I'm one of the broke hikers. It wasn't flush from the get go and it's even worse now due to a bunch of reasons, a few beyond my control.
I'm stepping off from Springer anyway.
What happens, happens, and i don't believe in begging either. I spent about 5 years on the streets, never panhandled once and i don't intend to start on the AT. If anything i would accept loans which, as always, are paid back with a little something extra as interest. And damn right i'm going to hit up people i've known for years. When i have, i kick in so it's time to return the favor.
One way or the other things will get done.Will this be your first thru hike?
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
Will this be your first thru hike?
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
Yes, this is my first thru hike.
Hahaha I love that website.
There’s a reason you mostly only deal with that in the south (and on the internet).
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
rocketsocks
02-19-2018, 11:21
OAFC
Oversized Appropriation of Fun Comedy
Hikers and egos: During my thru-hike I met a hiker at Hawk Mt. shelter. He was in his early 50s and he was new at long distance hiking. He had been a senior marathon runner and insisted that a hike would be no problem for him. We hiked together for some time and all he would talk about was how superior all his recently purchased light weight high tech equipment would get him to Katahdin with no problem. He would harp on the virtues of being in superior shape and having the best equipment. He had a business that his wife would manage and he would be able to confer with her daily by cell phone. We ended up sharing a cabin at Goose Creek , just down the road at Neels Gap. He became quite upset when he could not communicate with his wife because of poor cell service. He soon discovered that Northern Georgia had poor cell coverage and to call frequently would be a problem. The next morning after breakfast I returned to the cabin, he told me that he could not continue with his hike and was going to leave the trail. My answers to him when he talked gear. which he did non stop, was "it's not what you carry on your back, but what's in your head. A big ero won't get you far on a thru-hike.
...oh and this thread may very well be the whitestblaze thread ever.
Ohh, you have not been around here long enough on the set of this soap opera.
That dubious distinction can be said about one of the "How much does it cost to thru hike the AT?", AT lean to rants, purifying water, or why some other community is wrong when negatively addressing pro AT/the AT is the center of the world mentalities type threads.
Thus is another endless loop everyone has an opinion thread.
Can we get back to Dyneema composite or how much dies your pack weigh type threads?
Get a grip.
Ode to Whiteblaze
Though some may find
Reasons to complain
My skin is prolly tougher
Than the kids’ head’n for Maine.
And if someone’s finer point
Is made with a hammmer
The discourse is OK by me
’Cause no one here corrects my spelling — and grammar
Berserker
02-19-2018, 13:08
I get the point of the OP's post, and there has been some good discussion on here about it. My input would be to understand the word "chaff". Per the dictionary:
Chaff: worthless things; trash
This is how I treat most forums I go on. When I read stuff on here I'm looking at it from a couple of different perspectives. If I'm requesting input or info then I sift through the posts and consider the ones that actually address my inquiry while the rest become chaff that I ignore. If I'm looking for entertainment, then I read all the jokes, derogatory stuff, etc. (i.e. chaff) and have a good laugh.
gracebowen
02-19-2018, 15:17
I'm another one of those poor hikers. My phone plan is 5 lines for $100. Yes I let my kids have internet and cable. It's 150 a month.
I will be considered underfunded when I hike. I do also feel that this site can be a bit harsh at times towards poorer people.
For me it's not just a vacation. I'm not even going to try to explain it.
I will say though this site has helped me a lot. I am hoping to never hike with a pack over 35 lbs.
I have also seen someone offered a free pack and I myself have been given a Cuben fiber tarptent with a Cuben poncho groundsheet by a member here. She didn't even want me to pay shipping.
If and when I hike The only way anyone will know my financial situation is if they guess or get to know me. I won't beg on the trail. I may eat alot of ramen and peanut butter though.
Every time I think I can finally start saving for the trail something happens.
One of the most thrilling things on the A.T. is happening upon a thru-hiker at a shelter or pic-a-nic table holding forth, they just have an air of majesty about them....
LOL! Depending on how long it's been between washings, lol
Write again and I'll kill ya
Lol
lol...
u.w.
MuddyWaters
02-19-2018, 16:15
If and when I hike The only way anyone will know my financial situation is if they guess or get to know me. I won't beg on the trail. I may eat alot of ramen and peanut butter though.
Every time I think I can finally start saving for the trail something happens.
One of the great things about the AT, is the mix of people. Old, Young, Rich, poor, all doing the same thing. Where else will a young 20-something meet , talk, hike, and hang out with a seventy-year-old of the opposite sex??
Honestly nobody cares what you got or what you don't got on the trail. People with millions of dollars will hike right along with people that got don't have two nickels to rub together. And the topic just don't come up.
Unless somebody's an ass, and there are a couple always everywhere.
I know of at least one multi-millionaire retiree, my age, that will start hiking in the next couple weeks
Ego is our own worst enemy. I always try to remember that their comments make sense to them from where they are standing in life
It goes both ways.
https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?13082-MinnesotaSmith-Update&p=173995&viewfull=1#post173995
41915
Should be required reading for all.
.
Forgot to thank you when this thread was current.
Had a super slow day at work and spent a few hours reading through. Absolutely fascinating!
MuddyWaters
02-28-2018, 06:28
Forgot to thank you when this thread was current.
Had a super slow day at work and spent a few hours reading through. Absolutely fascinating!
Thars lessons in there.
It don't matter what's in your pack
It's what's between ears that counts most.
People full of themselves get offended when I keep reminding the trails been thru hiked by old people, young children, overweight, a blind guy, a guy carrying a tuba,....
To that list you can even add a guy that mailed himself bottled water.. ..and carried 6 rolls t.p.
A poor workman, always blames his tools.
Some will succeed no matter what they carry.
Some would fail......no matter what they carry
But you not going to be able to tell that from behind a computer screen.
gwschenk
02-28-2018, 11:11
And we seem to be grouchy too.
Hey! Leave me out of this!
:-)
On a section hike I met a kid who had been on the trail 090 days and had covered 900 Miles.
They were about to take another week off to deal with bloody feet.
The issue was they were pushing for 30 mile days.
Constant injuries and problems.
Convinced me that ego ego driven miles were a huge mistake.
Two more miles
02-28-2018, 14:47
I agree with you. I have for the most part quit even checking on here for the same reason. that and if you ask a question your gear isn't good to suet them so you get an REI or zpack's add. there are some good post but most are ul gear snobs in my opinion.
On the related subject of egos on WB vs other sites, I've realized that in the last 24 hours I've been blocked by at least two people on the Facebook section hiker's group for very politely trying to explain that their basic assumptions about black bears. During the conversation the same two people also blocked a well known hiker (ajd then bragged about it) for making comments about food storage techniques that would have been considered non-controversal on this site. It just adds to my personal opinion that WB isn't perfect, but for the internet it's pretty darn good.
Got a link to the FB thread about black bears? Sounds like good reading.
Sarcasm the elf
02-28-2018, 17:31
Got a link to the FB thread about black bears? Sounds like good reading.
Let me know if this works:
https://m.facebook.com/groups/179997858744135?view=permalink&id=1594471143963459&ref=content_filter&_rdr
Got it, thanks! That really went sideways with a couple of people, eh?
ScareBear
02-28-2018, 18:24
How exactly does giving somebody prudent advice make you better than them, especially when they asked for the advice in the first place?
Lack of funds is one of the top reasons that people abort their thru hikes and the average amount of money spent if fairly well known. When someone with no experience comes here and asks for advice on how to thru hike on a quarter of the budget that most experienced hikers can manage then "get more money" is a realistic and appropriate answer. I know that several times in my life while full of foolish enthusiasm I've tried to get involved in something without appropriate knowledge of what I'm doing. Having someone pull me aside to tell me "hey kid, you don't realize what you're getting yourself into." might not have been what I wanted to hear at the time, but it has saved me from both financial and literal ass-kickings on several occasions.
I agree that sometimes the tone of people's responses could use some improvement, but warning someone who doesn't know better that they are making a bad decision doesn't automatically make somebody a snob.
I'm just sayin......because I warn ya doesn't mean I don't like ya. It just means.....ya needed warning. Sorry if I don't sugar coat things. Not my style...
rocketsocks
02-28-2018, 21:28
Ya know, when ya think about it, all on-line entity’s have inflated egos, Yeah?