Food required for SNP

[jjozgrunt]

If I stop for a resupply in Waynesboro, It's just over 107 miles to Front Royal and from what I read lots of waysides in the park plus some resupply options. How many days food would I need to start with looking at doing that section in 5 days?

[MuddyWaters]

That's really up to you.
Will you be passing wayside's when they're open? At mealtime? And do you want to venture off to them because they're not exactly right on the trail always. Hitting a wayside can cost you 3-5 miles out of your day, depending on time spent. It can add a. Day to your schedule easy, or more, negating benefits partly if spend too much time at them. But.....its good to get that cheeseburger, shake, and fries.

I ate two or 3 lunches and one breakfast at waysides if I recall. Did no resupply. Started with about 5.5 days food , Came out with some left. At least a day or two. I didnt eat anything before or after hitting waysides, i dont want to spoil it. Usually not much after either , ha.

[El JP]

Concurring with Muddy Waters based on having worked there. Take a real good look at a map and a guide to get an idea where and when those places are and the hours.

[MuddyWaters]

I remember hiking five or six miles early one morning to Skyland, getting a cold deli case sandwich and a hot coffee and sitting outside at overlook and drinking that coffee and it was fantastic. That sandwich was fantastic... At that place and time.

I imagine my wayside stops added a day to shenandoah for me. But worth it. There was a couple of times when detours to a water source at a picnic area led to spending an hour lying in the sun after eating as well.

[jjozgrunt]

Okay looks like take another day and enjoy it.

[colorado_rob]

Okay looks like take another day and enjoy it. Yeah, I think I did 6 days for that stretch, easy hiking, but lots to do. I also seem to remember only taking 3 days of food out of Waynesboro. Not only are there waysides, but there are also a couple of stores that you pass by. I get the Campgrounds confused, Lewis vs. Loft Mountain, but both have stores. I camped in one of them and stayed in a little cabin in the other for free; nicest guy in the world runs the store at whatever the name of the first one is going north, I bought some stuff (couple of beers, a soda and huge bag of chips!) and chatted with the guy, it was late in the day, I asked if I camped there if there was a handy "hiker camp" area that didn't charge the normal fee ($20?). He said I could stay in the "overflow" cabin for free, no worries, the whole place was almost empty of visitors, it was mid- April 2016 on a weekday.

So really, the combination of waysides AND stores makes it easy to carry a whole lot less for for this stretch. The supplies at the stores are decent, freeze dried food, lots of bars/snacks/jerky, etc. Even some pre-made sandwiches IIRC. HIgh, but not ridiculous prices.

I timed it perfectly hiking through Skyland the first time through, in the fall (2013). I got there just in time for catching the end of the morning breakfast buffet. After that, I relaxed, caught up on a few things and noticed that the Lunch buffet was starting soon, PLUS the Bronco (my home town American football team) game was coming on the TV in the restaurant bar.... So, nothing like yet another calorie-catch-up meal! After another couple hours I hit the trail and still made a decent hiking day out of it.

It is really cushy hiking through SNP.... doing it a third time here in April, this time with my wife.

[Gambit McCrae]

Non of the waysides are on trail. Plan a night at loft mountain CG, you can eat there and do some resupply. I would say bring 4 days food and you will be good.

[colorado_rob]

Non of the waysides are on trail. Pretty darn close, real close in a couple cases, a couple/few tenths of a mile? Skyland (not a wayside, but a decent restaurant) is what, one tenth of a mile?

[tagg]

I didn't feel like the waysides were too out of the way, and stopped in at most of them. I carried 4 or 5 freezer bag dinners into the park so I wouldn't have to worry about my big meal of the day, but started with only a day or two worth of other food and then picked up lunches and snacks from the camp stores just about every day. There's no reason to carry 5 days worth of candy bars, cheese, pop tarts, or things like that because you can get that kind of stuff easily, assuming you're there when the waysides are open.

[gracebowen]

What are the prices like at the waysides and stores? The buffets?

[Slo-go'en]

What are the prices like at the waysides and stores? The buffets?

You might have to take out a mortgage, it's not cheap. You do pay a premium for convenience. "15 bucks for a burger and fries, you got to be kidding me! Oh hell, give me two!" Surprisingly, the beer is cheap though and at least the meal is a decent sized portion.

I paid $2.00 for one power bar at Skyland, then put it on a picnic table and turned around. Next thing I knew, a crow swept down, picked it up off the table and flew off with it!

[gracebowen]

Thank you Slogoen.

Any body know the buffet prices.

[jimmyjam]

The camp store at Loft mountain is just maybe 200 ft off the trail. There is also a blus blaze trail from the AT past the Loft camp store to the wayside which maybe .2 mile. Lots of food available and beer. The store at Lewis Mountain Campground is also very close to the trail (trail west as you are heading north) if you know where to turn off. Big Meadows wayside store/restaurant can be a mile walk if you miss the short cut and walk all the way to the campground- however you walk right by the lodge which has a bar/restaurant- also there is a small store where the showers are inside the campground. The trail also goes right by the wayside at Elkwallow.

[evyck da fleet]

You can also hitch into Luray. There’s a WalMart and McDonalds within walking distance of the Caverns, a nice diversion.

[Slo-go'en]

Thank you Slogoen.
Any body know the buffet prices.

I don't remember any Buffets the in park. The Skyland restaurant is like any family restaurant with average price meals of $15 to $20.

The waysides are like fast food joints, burgers, hot dog and some wraps. The Blueberry milk shakes are said to be great, but pricy. Gift shops have mostly snacks and drinks, and of course, trinkets.
The camp stores will have more selection then the gift shops. Camp stores carry primarily car camp supplies, like loafs of bread, eggs, bacon, hot dogs and the like. Backpacker food is primarily Mountain house meals and snacks.

I typically carry most of my dinners into the park, use the waysides for the primary meal of the day a few times and use the stores to keep snacks and breakfast supplied. Big Meadows is about half way, is right on the trail and has a good camp store with a decent selection and a coin shower. So that's a good place to plan to spend at least a few hours.

[colorado_rob]

Skyland had both breakfast and "lunch" (might have been early Dinner?) buffets, at least on the Sunday in September of 2014 when I partook.

Perhaps it's just a "Sunday" thing, or perhaps now, 3.5 years later it's gone.

I don't remember the price, but I'm guessing around $20. I remember a bit high, but not ridiculous. And I got my money's worth. The breakfast one was particularly good, lots of hot, high calorie food.

There are plugs in the floor near various tables in the dining area, not the area near the windows (might have been plugs there too).

[El JP]

The AT goes right by Skyland. It actually ran about 50 yards behind some of the employee housing.

As for the prices, they weren't cheap. If I didn't have a discount I never would have bought any food. Then again, I was rather the skin flint and worked in the kitchen

The buffets weren't any everday thing but the were set up quite often. Go around the side of the building and you'll quite often see kitchen personnel having a smoke break. Feel free to ask about the menu.

[lonehiker]

I left Waynesboro with 3 days of food. Topped off at the first store and then hit each convenient wayside/store (don't remember names). But after I was out of the park I remember thinking that a person could start with about 1.5 days of food and be fine using the stores and waysides.

[Christoph]

You might have to take out a mortgage, it's not cheap. You do pay a premium for convenience. "15 bucks for a burger and fries, you got to be kidding me! Oh hell, give me two!" Surprisingly, the beer is cheap though and at least the meal is a decent sized portion.

I paid $2.00 for one power bar at Skyland, then put it on a picnic table and turned around. Next thing I knew, a crow swept down, picked it up off the table and flew off with it!


Plus one on not being cheap! I hit the 1st few and didn't bat an eye after passing over the rest. Way overpriced, I don't care how convenient it may be. I'll carry enough through there and pass them all by if there's ever another pass through that area.

[Kaptainkriz]

Elkwallow is pretty much on the trail too...

Pretty darn close, real close in a couple cases, a couple/few tenths of a mile? Skyland (not a wayside, but a decent restaurant) is what, one tenth of a mile?

[gracebowen]

I won't be eating at them either. $15 for one meal not for me. My food budget is $75 a week..

[bigcranky]

From my memory, you can get a good meal at Loft Mountain wayside (off the trail, but not a bad walk), Big Meadows (great breakfast), Skyland (we stayed overnight in an historic cabin, so we got two meals and loved sitting on the stone patio in the morning), and Elkwallow (good burgers). I might be missing something. Also you can get takeout food at the camp stores, and there are water fountains and spigots in a lot of places like picnic areas and campgrounds that you will walk past.

I'd probably bring a few days of food and wing it. Be careful about water in the southern section.

[Traffic Jam]

I made the mistake of eating a big (for me) breakfast at a wayside prior to hiking. Temps were 90’s and humid and I was so sluggish and miserable, I barely made 8 miles...the day before was 16 (or 18?). I’ll never do that again.

[Dogwood]

So that's how you got named Traffic Jam. :D

[Dogwood]

I won't be eating at them either. $15 for one meal not for me. My food budget is $75 a week..

Say that after the hiker hunger kicks in.

Of all the things I'd rather spend some more on during a long distance hike it's an occasional great meal than even comparitively more on a mediocre solo hotel stay.

[evyck da fleet]

Say that after the hiker hunger kicks in.

Of all the things I'd rather spend some more on during a long distance hike it's an occasional great meal than even comparitively more on a mediocre solo hotel stay.

This. I want to enjoy my hike. A half mile detour for an overpriced burger and blueberry milkshake or three is nothing considering I’ve walked that far to a water source. Plus it’s a nice reward to have something other than oatmeal etc for breakfast or lunch. Especially if you have trouble keeping on weight. I stopped at three waysides and the bar at the lodge which also serves blueberry milkshakes. Of course doing more miles than planned expands th food budget which increases the miles.

[Slo-go'en]

It takes some serious will power to walk by someplace which serves food. Heck, I spent nearly $20 for a banana split and soda at the Creamery in NY. It was worth every penny :)

[MuddyWaters]

It's not the distance to the way sides that's an issue. It's getting there, cooling down, getting cleaned up a little, getting in line to place order, waiting for your order, eating, refilling water bottles etc throwing away trash, browsing store for a few minutes, and getting back to the trail.

It's going to cost you at least an hour in most cases, maybe 1.5 hours if they're busy.
I'm all for it but it does make your day longer. At the end of the day you might decide to hold up at one hut versus going for the next one because of it.
I see no need to hit up camp stores to resupply also that's just getting out of hand. Starting with about 4 days food isn't outrageous . That's an average of 2 daay, what 3.5-4 lbs?

If my pack is under about 20 lb, which it usually is, it's irrelevant to me. I'm not too concerned about food or water weight if the pack is comfortable. Convenience of not having to stop and resupply becomes desireable.

Do some hikers really hit every possible resupply on trail?

I don't even consider resupply less than 60 to 75 miles. (3-4 days), that's just annoying and tme consuming

[El JP]

It's going to cost you at least an hour in most cases, maybe 1.5 hours if they're busy.


That was about the minimum time certain periods at the Skyland dining room post Memorial day when we would get slammed. Even during the middle of the week if we had multiple tour groups in. The coffee stand/snack bar would even have wait times of up to a half an hour at times. It's a matter of sheer luck as to how the crowds will be when one goes through Shenandoah. Best bet would be the bar but even that could get swamped during sporting events.

[Singto]

What are the prices like at the waysides and stores? The buffets?

Just have a look at the YouTube vids about this, including the most recent (trail talk #19) from Big Bird (Steve Walker). He talks about an almost $25 lunch including a $2 tip. That kind of money can provide for 3 days, or more, of resupply at discount stores like Walmart etc. I like the Luray suggestion above.

[colorado_rob]

Obviously we all have our different financial situations, but for me, and I'm cheap, retired, living on a very modest fixed income, I'll still spend the extra $$$ for quick, hot and filling meals walking through SNP, also saving 3 days of food, close to 6 pounds, starting out from Waynesboro. Not sure where the "hour to hour and a half" comment comes from, I don't think I waited more than 5 minutes at any wayside for my food. The Skyland restaurant is another story, of course that will take over an hour, so what?

I'll stand by my previous statement, it really is a cushy 100-ish miles of the trail from Waynesboro to Front Royal.

One disclaimer: both times I hiked through were a bit "off-season" (April and late September) and I hit the food places on weekdays, by pure luck. My wife and I did stay one night recently at Skyland on a weekend also in April, and it was quite crowded. If there is any way to time your hike easily, jjozgrunt, to avoid Skyland on a weekend, it might help a bit.

Yet one other note: On my entire AT hike I saw 13 bears, 2 in New Jersey, and in a three day period, 11 in SNP (3 times I saw a mom and 2 cups, plus two other single bears). They are like big furry dogs really, but keep good food discipline with your food at night! I seem to remember bear poles vs. boxes at the shelters and campsites.

[globetruck]

Hitting a wayside can cost you 3-5 miles out of your day, depending on time spent. It can add a. Day to your schedule easy, or more, negating benefits partly if spend too much time at them.

I disagree with the notion that waysides cost you 3-5 miles. Here’s some actual FACTS:
- Note: the “Waysides” are essentially small grill cafes that also sell beer and snacks similar to what you’d find at a gas station convenience store. The “camp stores” don’t have hot food to order, but they’ve got more gear/food aimed at car campers, which also encompasses resupply options for backpackers.
- Loft Mountain camp store is 100 yards off the trail and has a store, showers, laundry, some basic hiker food (tuna, potatoes, some freeze dried meals, snacks, etc. The Loft Mountain Wayside is 0.5 miles from the trail.
- Big Meadows Wayside os 0.4 miles from the AT
- Skyland Resort is 0.1 miles from the AT. Not much of a resupply store, but a good spot for a hot meal.
- Elkwallow Wayside is 0.1 miles from the AT

Bottom line: If the waysides and/or camp stores are open, you could easily eat 3 meals “off trail” and purchase enough food so that you don’t have to carry everything. I personally enjoyed Shenandoah and found that my 5 days worth of food was about 1.5-2 days too much after I hit the camp stores and waysides. I averaged about 16 miles per day to give you an idea of my pacing through the park.



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[MuddyWaters]

I disagree with the notion that waysides cost you 3-5 miles. Here’s some actual FACTS:
- Note: the “Waysides” are essentially small grill cafes that also sell beer and snacks similar to what you’d find at a gas station convenience store. The “camp stores” don’t have hot food to order, but they’ve got more gear/food aimed at car campers, which also encompasses resupply options for backpackers.
- Loft Mountain camp store is 100 yards off the trail and has a store, showers, laundry, some basic hiker food (tuna, potatoes, some freeze dried meals, snacks, etc. The Loft Mountain Wayside is 0.5 miles from the trail.
- Big Meadows Wayside os 0.4 miles from the AT
- Skyland Resort is 0.1 miles from the AT. Not much of a resupply store, but a good spot for a hot meal.
- Elkwallow Wayside is 0.1 miles from the AT

Bottom line: If the waysides and/or camp stores are open, you could easily eat 3 meals “off trail” and purchase enough food so that you don’t have to carry everything. I personally enjoyed Shenandoah and found that my 5 days worth of food was about 1.5-2 days too much after I hit the camp stores and waysides. I averaged about 16 miles per day to give you an idea of my pacing through the park.



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16pd.....
Is.....

Not that much unless winter

What would you do if didn't stop at wayside?

You weren't hiking enough miles for it to matter. 8 hrs..... That's why you had 2+ hrs to waste.

Refer to ops original post relative to intended time to hke shenandoah

Someone wanting to hike 105 miles in 5 days, or 6 days even, doesn't have that to spare necessarily. Unless they hike in dark. Shenandoah problem is not many legal camp areas. You can't count on just hiking in dark till find a flat spot like can most places.

[lonehiker]

16pd.....
Is.....

Not that much unless winter

What would you do if didn't stop at wayside?

You weren't hiking enough miles for it to matter. 8 hrs..... That's why you had 2+ hrs to waste.

Refer to ops original post relative to intended time to hke shenandoah

Someone wanting to hike 105 miles in 5 days, or 6 days even, doesn't have that to spare necessarily. Unless they hike in dark. Shenandoah problem is not many legal camp areas. You can't count on just hiking in dark till find a flat spot like can most places.

The OP did not specify when they were wanting to do the hike at least in the initial post. But just whimsically selecting May 1st there would be 13 hours 48 minutes of daylight which would easily allow for 20s and time to hit stores/waysides. Even today there are more than 11 hours of daylight. So still plenty of time to get decent mileage and hit the waysides... Back to the OP. Just know that you can carry whatever amount of food you desire but be aware that it is quite easy to get through there with a minimum amount of food carry. As I mentioned in earlier post, if doing this section again I would take at most 2 days and just resupply/eat as I go. Do what feels comfortable to you.

[evyck da fleet]

I didn’t find the waysides added any time to my day when factoring in the ease of the trail through the park. It was still possible to do 24 mile days and be in camp by 5.

[globetruck]

16pd.....
Is.....

Not that much unless winter

What would you do if didn't stop at wayside?

You weren't hiking enough miles for it to matter. 8 hrs..... That's why you had 2+ hrs to waste.

Refer to ops original post relative to intended time to hke shenandoah

Someone wanting to hike 105 miles in 5 days, or 6 days even, doesn't have that to spare necessarily. Unless they hike in dark. Shenandoah problem is not many legal camp areas. You can't count on just hiking in dark till find a flat spot like can most places.

You hike your hike and I’ll hike mine. 16 miles per day was just fine by me and were amazing miles considering the condition of my ankle. Maybe I can email you my MRI and get your expert opinion. Oh wait... you don’t know me, you don’t know my goals, and you clearly don’t know the actual mileage between the AT and SNP waysides.

Hike your own hike and kindly refrain from condescension.


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[MuddyWaters]

You hike your hike and I’ll hike mine. 16 miles per day was just fine by me and were amazing miles considering the condition of my ankle. Maybe I can email you my MRI and get your expert opinion. Oh wait... you don’t know me, you don’t know my goals, and you clearly don’t know the actual mileage between the AT and SNP waysides.

Hike your own hike and kindly refrain from condescension.


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You missed point
OP expressed desire to hike it in 5 days.
And Shenandoah has issues with camping between huts which can require very long days to still go hut to hut.

I'm quite familiar with distance to AT from waysides. I've been to most twice. Howeve it's not the distance from trail it's the total time spend there.

Can average hikers not in thruhiker shape lose a couple hrs per day and still knock out 20-25 a couple days? Some can, many cant. Depends on time if yr, and mostly do they like hiking in dark.


Many thruhikers have no problem getting to huts 9 pm -11 pm after a 25+ mile day that includes detours to resupply, etc,even off trail to town. Few others do that . 2 yrs ago I rehiked Shenandoah in fall, sobo kid come in 11 pm after 29 mile day. For him, no problem. I'm sure he made it through the park in 4 days.

[Slo-go'en]

Can average hikers not in thruhiker shape lose a couple hrs per day and still knock out 20-25 a couple days? Some can, many cant. Depends on time if yr, and mostly do they like hiking in dark.

With a week under my belt having started at Harpers Ferry, it took me another 7 days to get from Front Royal to Waynesboro, with one big 27 mile day from Bearfence shelter to Loft Mt campground. Since I left May 1st, this was on the 11th day. Even with a mile detour to the wayside, I still made it before dark but it was a rough day.

To add insult to injury, that was also the day my canister ran dry and the Loft Mt camp store was closed for renovations. I was able to just make it to the wayside 0.5 miles away before they closed to get some supper. No fuel canisters though. Meet someone the next day who had a full spare canister someone had given him the night before that he really didn't want to carry, so he passed it on to me. Now that's trail magic.