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Redbird2
02-22-2018, 22:42
Looking for feedback from hikers who use sleeping bag liners. I'll be sleeping in long underwear and using an EE quilt during colder weather so I'm not really worried about keeping a bag clean. I would expect some extra warmth on the cold nights. I would expect that I could use it alone for warmer weather instead of the quilt. What are your thoughts? Worth the weight? Luxury item? I've read about negative experiences of it feeling confining. Just curious about your experiences and thoughts.

gbolt
02-22-2018, 23:15
I used a liner with an older sleeping bag. However, when I Purchased the appropriate quilt, I ditched the liner. Don’t see the purpose and feel that the quilt uses Body Heat and loft to maintain warmth that a liner may interfere with. The weight is more than purchasing extra loft or the next lower temp quilt and as mentioned, it is very confining. For an occasional cold night that occurs by accident, you can adjust clothing and supplement with a down puffy that many carry anyway. Also, hot bottle trick, Head neck covering and eating before sleep , all help. It does come down to personal choice as does most gear choices.

AllDownhillFromHere
02-22-2018, 23:19
I had a silk one for years and it finally blew out. I got tangled up in it more than once, it was kind of annoying. I think it did add some heat, and kept the bag cleaner. But, you can sleep in your longjohns, and wear a hat, and probably be the same warmth. In the end it was 4oz I didn't need to carry.

Elaikases
02-23-2018, 00:19
I used a liner with an older sleeping bag. However, when I Purchased the appropriate quilt, I ditched the liner. Don’t see the purpose and feel that the quilt uses Body Heat and loft to maintain warmth that a liner may interfere with. The weight is more than purchasing extra loft or the next lower temp quilt and as mentioned, it is very confining. For an occasional cold night that occurs by accident, you can adjust clothing and supplement with a down puffy that many carry anyway. Also, hot bottle trick, Head neck covering and eating before sleep , all help. It does come down to personal choice as does most gear choices.
That has been the way the analysis has fallen out for me. I kept trying to find a liner that made sense. Never did.

Slo-go'en
02-23-2018, 00:34
I like my liner. Invest in a silk one. That will give you the best warmth/weight/size ratio.

When it's hot, I'll start out with just the liner, then pull the bag over me when it gets chilly before dawn.

Dogwood
02-23-2018, 00:58
The lightest wt ripstock silk or polyester ones by Cocoon or c2Summit are worth the 4-4.6 oz wt hit to me to add about 5-7* of warmth when I'm pushing the temp rating of a bag or quilt to below its rating which is customary for myself when I'm already wearing sleep layers, addresed under insulation, accessorize with hats, socks, gloves, etc. Since I'm also a side to side rotisserie sleeper and regular cowboy camper and A frame tarper incorporating a liner into thw mix is one approach to eliminating drafts in a zipperless quilt.

Silk or microfiber thinner UL wt liners are the most slippery and least binding. C2Summit has their stretch silk rectangular shaped liner with lateral lycra stretch panels which may help the tangent issues some voice. http://www.seatosummitusa.com/product/?item=Premium+Silk+Travel+Liner&o1=0&o2=0&o3=111-34


To realize the warmth ratings of such liners mentioned it's important one snug up a hood and/or shoulder drawstring. Many I've seen complain about liner warmth ratings not being realized don't do this and then bitch about the gear as if it's the gear's fault or it's unethical marketing of temp ratings.

Additionally, as an ULer seeking pieces that function doing double and triple duty I get greater usage out of a liner because it's what I sleep in when visiting a hostel or hotel on a hike and I'll drape it over me like a toga in camp and when hiking making it another layering piece. And, of course ripstop silk feels cool and comfortable on the skin.

FWIW, the heavier other fabric liners, when doing wt to warmth ratio comparisons are a wt hit that I'm not willing to make because there are lighter wt alternatives for the warmth.

But when you're on the cusp of the sleep system warmth I'm not totally adverse to adding such a UL liner into the mix on a usual temporary basis.

DownEaster
02-23-2018, 00:59
A silk liner and a sleeping bag or quilt is like pairing a sheet with a blanket: the extra layer makes you more comfortable. Even if you aren't quite covered by the bag/quilt, the liner is a barrier against drafts. You'll sleep longer without interruptions until the temperature drops substantially.

Dogwood
02-23-2018, 01:22
...tanglement issues some voice.

MuddyWaters
02-23-2018, 03:28
Why go to a quilt to get away from the entanglement of a bag, and then put yourself in another even more tangly bag under the quilt?

Senseless to me.

Buy the right quilt. Supplement with the right clothes when needed. Keep things simple as possible.

But then again I'm a person that sleeps in all my clothes . Never take them off on the trail unless damp. Simplicity.

Or maybe it's laziness. In any case is low hassle. I'm out there to eat sleep and walk I'm not into changing clothes or pretending I'm at home by emulating home experiences. ( Things like baking, showering, social media, etc)

It varies by season, of course, but the fewer items I can bring the happier I am. The simpler Trail life is. Warm weather is a blast, even with the sweaty days, because so few items are needed.

Simplicity, is elegant.
Complexity, is clumsy and ugly.

Singto
02-23-2018, 04:19
If you can fit, cut this one in half, get the halves sewn and have a second liner as a back up. Approximately 4.5 ounces for half. I'm going to use it as a matter of keeping my bag cleaner 1st and added (minimal) warmth 2nd.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BWDLL2Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Leo L.
02-23-2018, 06:36
Liners do add some warmth to the system but not so much as to justify their use just for that.
Main purpose for me is, to keep the bag as clean as possible, and to add the possibility to start a warm night in just the liner and a jacket draped over mod-body, and to drag the sleepingbag over me later in the night.
Another purpose is to stay sealed-off from critters and moskitos, though not all moskitos are the same, there are some that would sting through the (Nylon) liner no problem.

Hatchet_1697
02-23-2018, 09:01
I use a liner to keep dirt / body oils from getting into my quilt, also for a couple extra degrees of warmth. Silk ones were a kind of a pain. The best one Iíve found is built by Dutch.

https://dutchwaregear.com/product/quilt-liner/

At 2.5oz itís the lightest Iíve found, has held up great for 2 years now, roomy, easy to get in/out of with a little practice, and has kept my quilts very clean Clean = loft = warm = happy hiker.


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blw2
02-23-2018, 12:18
I've toyed with the idea of getting one to use by putting my pad in it, like a fitted sheet to lay on top of
but it could dual purpose as another layer too.

Leo L.
02-23-2018, 12:23
In the old times we did exactly this: Slipping the pad into the bivvy when cowboy camping.
But then, while you have the advantage of never getting the bag over the edge of the pad into dirt, you have the disadvantage of being very restricted in the bag, basically you can mostly lie flat on the back only.

blw2
02-23-2018, 12:33
I meant put the pad inside with me on top outside....not crowding into the liner with the pad....

Wyoming
02-23-2018, 12:36
Liners can be very useful.

On a trail like the AT when the summer comes and you are in between the higher mountains (Southern VA to Hanover) you can go without a bag/quilt entirely and just use a liner. I have done that entire distance carrying only a liner for a bag. Superlight.

I have never been concerned about keeping the bag/quilt clean by using them, but I seldom sleep in my daily top/shorts in a bag as I want to air them out and if I am near water I rinse them in the evening and hang them to dry overnight. Also if you have spent part of the day in rain you do not want to sleep in your wet clothes and the liner over a base layer with your puffy is like a bag and will keep you warm.

The above being said I often do not carry a liner. If I am on one of the western trails where night time temps are very likely to go well below what one sees in the summer on the AT I carry a bag/quilt and leave the liner at home.

For winter hiking a liner can be essential of course whether you use a quilt or bag.

Leo L.
02-23-2018, 12:39
Then why would you? To protect the pad? From what?

When in the desert where there are a thousand stingy pointy things trying to ruin the Thermarest, I'm using a groundcloth made from housewrap (the one I made for My MSR tent), and first thing I do at the campspot is to spread the ground cloth, which defines my home area for the night.

Redbird2
02-23-2018, 16:11
Thanks hikers! All good information. I'll forego the liner and keep doing what has worked for me thus far.

Dogwood
02-23-2018, 16:45
Why go to a quilt to get away from the entanglement of a bag, and then put yourself in another even more tangly bag under the quilt?

Senseless to me.

Buy the right quilt. Supplement with the right clothes when needed. Keep things simple as possible.


In any case... low hassle.

Simplicity, is elegant.
Complexity, is clumsy and ugly.

Not everyone chooses a quilt based on entanglement issues. You're making more of it into an issue than often need be.

Again, adding a liner can be incorporated into additional warming measures. It doesn't have to be one thing or another. Many things can come together to supplement warmth adding diversity to a sleep system. This is what many do having a limited quilt/bag line up. We all don't have or are willing to afford a great number of different bags and quilts. A liner helps tweak a sleep system.

If you don't want greater complexity/fiddle factor perhaps you should avoid quilts all together because quilts more so than conventional sleeping bags require it particularly often significant in low temps.

Dogwood
02-23-2018, 16:53
I use a liner to keep dirt / body oils from getting into my quilt, also for a couple extra degrees of warmth. Silk ones were a kind of a pain. The best one I’ve found is built by Dutch.

https://dutchwaregear.com/product/quilt-liner/

At 2.5oz it’s the lightest I’ve found, has held up great for 2 years now, roomy, easy to get in/out of with a little practice, and has kept my quilts very clean Clean = loft = warm = happy hiker.


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Hatchet how does the Argon 67 feel on the skin in hot weather? In ground apps? How well does it breathe compared to ripstop silk of say something like a 4.4-4.8 oz c2Summit silk mummy liner?

cmoulder
02-23-2018, 17:12
Looking for feedback from hikers who use sleeping bag liners. I'll be sleeping in long underwear and using an EE quilt during colder weather so I'm not really worried about keeping a bag clean. I would expect some extra warmth on the cold nights. I would expect that I could use it alone for warmer weather instead of the quilt. What are your thoughts? Worth the weight? Luxury item? I've read about negative experiences of it feeling confining. Just curious about your experiences and thoughts.

Unnecessary, pointless luxury item. (IMO, "for me" etc)

If you need more warmth, put on more clothes. One of the advantages of a quilt vs a bag.

no_1
02-23-2018, 17:37
My Rab Traveller rocks but this one seems similar and a bit less spendy:

http://www.silkliners.com/navy-blue-100-mulberry-silk-single-sleeping-bag-liner/

Dogwood
02-23-2018, 18:37
Unnecessary, pointless luxury item. (IMO, "for me" etc)

If you need more warmth, put on more clothes. One of the advantages of a quilt vs a bag.

What if you re wearing all your clothes already?

What if you can wear a liner as a layer as a toga when hiking or in camp?

A liner becomes less of a "luxury" and more of an integrated component multi use piece.

Silk is luxurious though. I'm worth it. :D

Dogwood
02-23-2018, 19:10
Bags dont have to be ridgidly dimensionaly static. ie; Montbell's Super Stretch or Spiral cut on the bias bags.

If one intends on wearing many or bulky layers in their bags as can be customary for climbers or mountaineers then get a larger girth bag. Easy enough with the Valandre bags which are how they are sometimes designed. That's what I did when I had Valandres. Like a roomier feel than buy one with that in mind. Some complain about the lack of roomieness in a conventional mummy bag when they haven't given enough consideration to the cut, dimensions, how they sleep, and their intended set ups, and applications. It's so common to blame issues on gear when the issues are more related to the user's abilities and lack of considerations.

If anything, for me as a side to side rotisserie sleeper, I feel more confined on the same size NeoAir when using any of my three quilts having to stay attached to the Neo Air compared to any of my conventional sleeping bags because the pad is a critical part of the insulation and warmth.

I'm having a discussion not coming at you Cmoulder in a rigid one sided approach.:)

Dogwood
02-23-2018, 19:10
Bags dont have to be ridgidly dimensionaly static. ie; Montbell's Super Stretch or Spiral cut on the bias bags.

If one intends on wearing many or bulky layers in their bags as can be customary for climbers or mountaineers then get a larger girth bag. Easy enough with the Valandre bags which are how they are sometimes designed. That's what I did when I had Valandres. Like a roomier feel than buy one with that in mind. Some complain about the lack of roomieness in a conventional mummy bag when they haven't given enough consideration to the cut, dimensions, how they sleep, and their intended set ups, and applications. It's so common to blame issues on gear when the issues are more related to the user's abilities and lack of considerations.

If anything, for me as a side to side rotisserie sleeper, I feel more confined on the same size NeoAir when using any of my three quilts having to stay attached to the Neo Air compared to any of my conventional sleeping bags because the pad is a critical part of the insulation and warmth.

I'm having a discussion not coming at you Cmoulder in a rigid one sided approach.:)

Dogwood
02-23-2018, 19:11
Sorry for the double post.

cmoulder
02-23-2018, 21:02
Yo Dog no sweat! :cool: I know that you are of the UL persuasion and quite analytical. If you've worked it into your gear list I know that it was well considered.

However, IMO if a silk liner is the factor that determines whether one is comfortable or cold I'd say one didn't carry adequate (or proper) clothing for the conditions. Not easy picking just the right pieces that will keep you warm in challenging conditions but not weigh you down.

But I've taken to hanging the last few months and cannot imagine wrestling with a liner inside a top quilt and inside a hammock.

Hatchet_1697
02-23-2018, 21:17
Hatchet how does the Argon 67 feel on the skin in hot weather? In ground apps? How well does it breathe compared to ripstop silk of say something like a 4.4-4.8 oz c2Summit silk mummy liner?

...Its winter, I had to think about that one, even pulled it out. Itís very soft, smooth, and light material, Mrs Hatchet says it feels like the inside of a quality soft down jacket.

It breathes ďaverageĒ, and I might recall it sticking a little after a hot sweaty hike in hot humid weather, but its so light and roomy itís easy to adjust / vent when Iím using only it for cover on hotter nights. I have a Cocoon Silk Liner, it sticks a lot more and gets twisted. The Argon 67 doesnít seem to have that problem as much, it slides much better.

Hereís a better description, you can call Dutch too, he can give you more info / opinions.

https://dutchwaregear.com/product/argon-67/

All I can say is it has worked well for me either hanging in my hammock or going to ground.



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Dogwood
02-23-2018, 21:46
Yo Dog no sweat! :cool: I know that you are of the UL persuasion and quite analytical. If you've worked it into your gear list I know that it was well considered.

However, IMO if a silk liner is the factor that determines whether one is comfortable or cold I'd say one didn't carry adequate (or proper) clothing for the conditions. Not easy picking just the right pieces that will keep you warm in challenging conditions but not weigh you down.

But I've taken to hanging the last few months and cannot imagine wrestling with a liner inside a top quilt and inside a hammock.

Good pt!

You hit me with the one thing I left out that I intended to include. I too do not use a liner in a hammock with either a quilt or bag with my tossing sleep style. It was a tanglefest for me. Others do it effectively though. Maybe they are back sleepers, using bridge hammocks, or doing something I'm ignorant of.

TU for understanding where I was coming from.

Dogwood
02-23-2018, 21:59
Well, Hatchet you solved the biggest test. The wife approves.

Appreciated your take. I rudimentarly considered Dutch's liner but didn't get very far. I wanted more reviews based on others personally experiencing it.

Care to explain further how you dont get tangled up and I do when using a liner in a hammock with a bag or quilt? Am I doing something wrong?

Harrison Bergeron
02-24-2018, 09:01
The reason you want a liner is so you don't have to buy two sleeping bags and mail them back and forth. One 30-degree bag plus the right liner weighs less than a 20 degree bag and will get you all the way from March on Springer to July at Harpers Ferry to September on Katadyn. The bonus is not having to sleep in the same bed for six months without washing your sheets. Montbell UL Spiral Down Hugger #3 plus Sea to Summit Reactor liner. Total weight: 30.6 oz.

Hatchet_1697
02-25-2018, 08:37
Care to explain further how you dont get tangled up and I do when using a liner in a hammock with a bag or quilt? Am I doing something wrong?

Hmm, for me Iíd say itís a combination of things. I try to use dedicated UL synthetic socks/shorts/shirt for sleeping. These are always clean and dry (relatively). Feet/hips/shoulders are major touch points so wearing synthetic fabric on these, combined with the extreme smoothness of the Argon 67, just seems to work. That liner is also cut for a quilt, sewn foot box (very large) but halfway up it splits which makes it easier to get in/out of and adjust. I prob do adjust it during the night, but not nearly as much as my silk one where it catches and gets twisted up when damp.

Iíve started my seasonal training hikes, have an overnight in a few weeks, Iíll pay attention and report back, but am pretty sure the combination is why it doesnít really stick/twist.

Good luck!



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Singto
02-25-2018, 09:42
My Rab Traveller rocks but this one seems similar and a bit less spendy:

http://www.silkliners.com/navy-blue-100-mulberry-silk-single-sleeping-bag-liner/

Available on Ebay for about $14 including shipping.

saltysack
02-25-2018, 10:44
...Its winter, I had to think about that one, even pulled it out. Itís very soft, smooth, and light material, Mrs Hatchet says it feels like the inside of a quality soft down jacket.

It breathes ďaverageĒ, and I might recall it sticking a little after a hot sweaty hike in hot humid weather, but its so light and roomy itís easy to adjust / vent when Iím using only it for cover on hotter nights. I have a Cocoon Silk Liner, it sticks a lot more and gets twisted. The Argon 67 doesnít seem to have that problem as much, it slides much better.

Hereís a better description, you can call Dutch too, he can give you more info / opinions.

https://dutchwaregear.com/product/argon-67/

All I can say is it has worked well for me either hanging in my hammock or going to ground.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I hate liners but this is an interesting set up as can also use as a make shift bivy as has a DWR..Iíve spent way too much money with Dutch and HG in last few months!


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cmoulder
02-25-2018, 10:55
I hate liners but this is an interesting set up as can also use as a make shift bivy as has a DWR..I’ve spent way too much money with Dutch and HG in last few months!


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I recently bought another UQ (40deg EE Revolt) for when the weather warms up. In addition to the other stuff (tarps, UQ) from HG, and straps, hammock and hardware from DH and DW. I'm seriously all set for gear, and if I get the urge to buy anything else I'm going to bang my head on the wall screaming NO! :)

mikec
02-25-2018, 12:48
I thought about a sleeping bag liner but didn't want the hassle and additional bulk. I just throw a couple iron oxide hand warmers into my bag at night when it's cold. It raises the temperature in the bag by 10 degrees or more. This works for me.

Hatchet_1697
02-25-2018, 14:42
..Iíve spent way too much money with Dutch and HG in last few months!

Yeah, that was me last year, but both are solid small businesses who make excellent gear. This is my hobby so I figure itís worth it.

Both have great customer support too. I bought one of the first Chameleon hammocks, and as happens with early adopters, there was a small defect in the zipper. Early on their vendor had trouble meeting quality standards and I had separation at the tabs. I emailed Dutch, sent a pic, and they sent me a new hammock body with the upgraded zipper no charge. So far zero issues with their liner or other gear. HG is awesome too, my first trip out with their CF hammock tarp a tree 25í away came down and tore a 7Ē hole in my brand new tarp :(( (Could have been a LOT worse) I asked their advice on repairing it, they said send it in, I did and they fixed it for no charge. Iím a big fan of both.

But I digress, this is a liner thread after all.


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Frisbee
02-25-2018, 17:06
Hi Redbird. I use a Cocoon silk/cotton liner now. Used to use all silk but if it tears when you are sleeping, it's ruined. Silk/cotton takes more abuse. Choose a liner that you slip into from the head, not one with a zipper. The liner does provide additional warmth but much more importantly it protects your sleeping bag from hiker grime. If you use a liner religiously and air out your bag, you won't have to wash it ever. Crazy, but pretty true. Liners add life to bags. When it is hot, you can use it by itself or with your sleeping bag open as a quilt over you. I don't see it as a luxury item, but as a piece of necessary gear. It can be a little confining, but so are mummy bags.

Good luck and have a great hike.

Frisbee
AT 3000+ miler

Dogwood
02-25-2018, 17:25
Hatchet, the civilility and clarity in your commmunication is appreciated. You offering future feed back based on personal experiences is also greatly appreciated.