Staying Keto on the Trail

[DragonBlue]

I'm looking for advice from fellow hikers who keep keto on long term hikes.

I will be starting out the trip with a supply of things like pemmican, cashew whip, and dry ingredients for soups - all things that can be stored and/or cooked in a mylar bag. I'm also hoping to have RV support from my grandfather at certain points along the trail so I can resupply myself with such items that require prep ahead of time, though a lot of them can be made on the trail or prepped during pit stops in town.

So my questions for those that do/have done keto on the trails:


What kind of foods do you recommend carrying on the trail?
How do you supplement your fat intake?
Any general suggestions/experiences with keeping keto are welcome!

[Venchka]

Carry ghee. Add it to everything that you eat.
Wayne

[AllDownhillFromHere]

It's not the lightest, but I've read that those "mediterranean" salad bars in grocery stores are a good place to go - tons of olive oil, oil-soaked olives, mozarella balls, etc. I know of one hiker who took that and made a kind of tuna salad out of it, carried it in ziplocks.

[roys]

Actually I'm low to moderate carb throughout the year. While hiking I love, love, love, eating sugar foods. Its fast energy. Makes me feel great. As long as your not grossly over consuming, how can there be a wasted calorie hiking. In my opinion, with the exception of type 1 diabetes, I say go for the sugar throughout the day. I think of breakfast and dinner as the nutrient laden meals. Throughout the day I consume mostly sugar foods with supplements (BCAA's and occasionally with other minerals).
Do a search on this site for posts by Malto, he has very interesting info on this subject.

[gracebowen]

Is avocado allowed? They are high gat and calorie.

[Starchild]

The amount of energy one uses on the AT thru will keep one testing positive for ketones pretty easy with a moderately low carb diet, no need for the extreme low carb that is required off trail. It's even possible to eat a regular diet and achieve a state of ketosis. As such you have a lot more leeway. As for foods cold cuts & cheese do go along way to that. I've even brought eggs to cook on trail. Nuts, jerky for snacks.

[JC13]

Is avocado allowed? They are high gat and calorie.Yes, avacado is definitely allowed. Last time out, the guy I was with carried at least 1-3 with him.

[Venchka]

Precooked bacon bits. Add to Mac&Cheese, Knorr Sides, instant mashed potatoes, oatmeal, etc.
I thought that “keeping keto” might be related to the “keeping cute” thread. Who invented this new language? Where did this Keto diet thing come from? Why? Enquiring Geezers want to know.
Wayne

[Venchka]

Is avocado allowed? They are high gat and calorie.
Google avocado chips. Apparently they can be dehydrated.
Wayne

[centerfieldr162]

I did a week long trip in the smokies after giving up carbs for lent last year and carried a jar of peanut butter, nuts, low carb tortillas, cheese, jerky bites, and coconut oil. I had no trouble staying in ketosis. I did, however, have trouble staying with keto after 2 months of it. More power to yall.. I need carbs!!!:banana

[Dogwood]

The amount of energy one uses on the AT thru will keep one testing positive for ketones pretty easy with a moderately low carb diet, no need for the extreme low carb that is required off trail. It's even possible to eat a regular diet and achieve a state of ketosis. As such you have a lot more leeway. Nuts, jerky for snacks.

Exactly my thoughts.

[kestral]

Paleo diet is great, worked for thousands of years. I wouldn’t start Keto on the trail, Keto flu and all, but keeping Keto shouldn’t be too hard with all that excercise, probably could go up to 100-150 grams carb and maintain. Much lower inflammatory response with this diet as opposed to standard hiker poorer quality cheap foods. Carry some urine Keto sticks if you want to spot check. Freeze dried avocado. yummmmmmm. Best of luck to you and give us feedback on how you did, energy levels, etc...

[Dogwood]

What's keto flu?

[gracebowen]

When you first go into ketosis many people feel sick.

Also known as the 'carb flu,' the keto flu is a natural reaction (almost like a feeling of withdrawal) your body undergoes when switching from burning glucose (sugar) as energy to burning fat instead. In fact, some people say the keto flu symptoms can actually feel similar to withdrawing from an addictive substance.

The keto diet was originally designed for severe epelitics.

The ketogenic diet is a high-fat, adequate-protein, low-carbohydrate diet that in medicine is used primarily to treat difficult-to-control (refractory) epilepsy in children. The diet forces the body to burn fats rather than carbohydrates. Normally, the carbohydrates contained in food are converted into glucose, which is then transported around the body and is particularly important in fueling brain-function. However, if there is little carbohydrate in the diet, the liver converts fat into fatty acids and ketone bodies. The ketone bodies pass into the brain and replace glucose as an energy source. An elevated level of ketone bodies in the blood, a state known as ketosis, leads to a reduction in the frequency of epileptic seizures.[1] Almost half of children, and young people, with epilepsy who have tried some form of this diet saw the number of seizures drop by at least half, and the effect persists even after discontinuing the diet.[2] There is some evidence that adults with epilepsy may benefit from the diet, and that a less strict regimen, such as a modified Atkins diet, is similarly effective.[1] The most common adverse effect is constipation, affecting about 30% of patients—this was due to fluid restriction, which was once a feature of the diet, but this led to increased risk of kidney stones and is no longer considered beneficial.[2][3]

I'm not keto but I've thought about it and researched it.

[gracebowen]

A friend of mine has epelipsy and is on a keto diet.

[rickb]

Sardines in oil?

I probably ate over 100 cans on the AT — and not one since.

Makes me gag to think about them now, but they were appreciated at the time.

If otherwise good for Keto and to your taste, I would not fear the can too much — even if it is some will look down their noses at the sight of one. It’s not like you would be lugging around Vienna Sausages :).

[Dogwood]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/blog.kettleandfire.com/keto-flu/amp/

If this is accurate almost all the ways they say to avoid keto flu I already do normally without ever having known they can help to avoid it. Since I've never experienced "keto flu" didn't know such a phrase existed.

[Dogwood]

TU Grace for sharing the research. WB in reverse is BW, short for Book Worm.:D

[devoidapop]

Pardon my ignorance. Is this a rebranded Atkins diet?

[Dogwood]

Pardon my ignorance. Is this a rebranded Atkins diet?

It depends on who you ask. Everyone wants to make diet distinctions and promoting one diet regimen over another. Lots of money in promoting differtent diets! My goodness browse the diet book or diet mag section at Barnes&Noble. Ask a pro or long term Atkins Diet person and theyll say Keto Diet has the same basic premises - a low carb diet. In effect, I agree even though I don't adhere or generally promote either diet.They are both versions of a low carb diet.

[Dogwood]

My take is that on any diet that restricts or vastly alters normal carb, protein, and fat intake is going to have effects.

From that, I would ask is that dietary regimen sustainstable or is it just thought of as temporary, as many taken to diet fads typically define.

[devoidapop]

Pardon my ignorance. Is this a rebranded Atkins diet?

It depends on who you ask. Everyone wants to make diet distinctions and promoting one diet regimen over another. Lots of money in promoting differtent diets! My goodness browse the diet book or diet mag section at Barnes&Noble. Ask a pro or long term Atkins Diet person and theyll say Keto Diet has the same basic premises - a low carb diet. In effect, I agree even though I don't adhere or generally promote either diet.They are both versions of a low carb diet.

Yeah. I know about the marketing end of this stuff. My wife does THM and she's spent a small fortune on products and recipe books. It did bring cocoa butter into my diet, though and for that I am grateful.

[devoidapop]

My take is that on any diet that restricts or vastly alters normal carb, protein, and fat intake is going to have effects.

From that, I would ask is that dietary regimen sustainstable or is it just thought of as temporary, as many taken to diet fads typically define.

When my wife was diagnosed with diabetes the nutritionist told her she could go on a diet or make a lifestyle change. For anybody with a medical condition, I think the lifestyle change is the best approach. You make the changes to your food and excercise that you can sustain long term and greatly increase your chances of success.

[Dogwood]

When my wife was diagnosed with diabetes the nutritionist told her she could go on a diet or make a lifestyle change. For anybody with a medical condition, I think the lifestyle change is the best approach. You make the changes to your food and excercise that you can sustain long term and greatly increase your chances of success.

If understanding correctly you're saying something different than the nutrionist. I think you're saying, at least in part, lasting dietary changes are lifestyle changes, to which I whole heartily agree.

There are other lifestyle factors beyond diet and exercise that are correlated with diagnosis of Type II diabetes ie; smoking, excess alcohol consumption, high blood pressure...

That's one of the common issues IMHO with diets, and to some extent lifestyle changes, they are too often temporary.

I wish everyone godspeed navigating the nutrional and dietary industry.

[perdidochas]

I'm looking for advice from fellow hikers who keep keto on long term hikes.

I will be starting out the trip with a supply of things like pemmican, cashew whip, and dry ingredients for soups - all things that can be stored and/or cooked in a mylar bag. I'm also hoping to have RV support from my grandfather at certain points along the trail so I can resupply myself with such items that require prep ahead of time, though a lot of them can be made on the trail or prepped during pit stops in town.

So my questions for those that do/have done keto on the trails:


What kind of foods do you recommend carrying on the trail?
How do you supplement your fat intake?
Any general suggestions/experiences with keeping keto are welcome!

Personally, I think Keto on the trail would be foolish. You are going to need the energy from carbs.

[perdidochas]

Precooked bacon bits. Add to Mac&Cheese, Knorr Sides, instant mashed potatoes, oatmeal, etc.
I thought that “keeping keto” might be related to the “keeping cute” thread. Who invented this new language? Where did this Keto diet thing come from? Why? Enquiring Geezers want to know.
Wayne

Keto is ultra-low carb. Your body goes into ketosis, which helps burn body fast faster.

[perdidochas]

Pardon my ignorance. Is this a rebranded Atkins diet?

Same principle. The early weeks of Atkins are ketosis diets. IIRC, that's not the permanent Atkins diet.

[Starchild]

... The ketone bodies pass into the brain and replace glucose as an energy source. ....
This part is wrong, ketones can not pass through the blood brain barrier, The fats will fuel everything else but the brain needs glucose. So there is a process that converts protein to glucose ( gluconugensis <sp> ) so the brain functions and has the energy it needs. The brain will run on this manufactured glucose from protein while the body uses fat. In starvation that protein comes from the body breaking down muscle, but in a low carb Atkins type diet that protein comes from dietary sources. Since the body can not store protein, it is important to keep protein intake continuous, which in reality is pretty easy on a low carb diet and almost does not need to be mentioned.

[Starchild]

Personally, I think Keto on the trail would be foolish. You are going to need the energy from carbs.
Not necessarily fats have much more and once you switch to fats fully there is a lot of energy, but listen to your body, if it's crying out for foods while on the hike there is usually a very good reason.

[rocketsocks]

Same principle. The early weeks of Atkins are ketosis diets. IIRC, that's not the permanent Atkins diet.ya mean ya cant continue eating 8 hot dogs a day?

[Uncle Joe]

I live largely Keto-centric. No sugars, breads, very low carb. That said, on the trail I eat what I can take and manage. When you're burning calories at an alarming rate you just need calories. That said, I know someone personally who has done tones of bike packing miles completely Keto-adjusted. But bike packing has the advantage of hitting plenty of restaurants where you can have more control. For me, I let myself eat what I can take and get. I can always re-adjust back to a Keto-centric diet when I return.

[gracebowen]

TU Grace for sharing the research. WB in reverse is BW, short for Book Worm.:D

Neat. I needed a smile today. One of my luxury items if I make the trail will be a book.

[Hikingchef]

https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/128223-Low-carb-trail-snacks
This was a huge help for us.

[DrL]

My take is that on any diet that restricts or vastly alters normal carb, protein, and fat intake is going to have effects.

Define normal. Or, how did we (the western world) reach our current normal?
I doubt it had anything to do with health or wellness.

[capehiker]

Pardon my ignorance. Is this a rebranded Atkins diet?

The ketogenic diet has been around for almost 100 years as a dietary tool to aid in reducing epileptic seizures in children. It has gained a resurgence in popularity due to other benefits such as stabilizing blood glucose in diabetics, weight loss, lowering cholesterol, and is popular with intermittent fasters.

[Dogwood]

Define normal. Or, how did we (the western world) reach our current normal?
I doubt it had anything to do with health or wellness.


Normal was used as an adjective synonymous with usual, standard, typical, average, or common. What that means in the context of my post is whatever one's diet typically is. Restating, whomever changes that diet in context of changing, for example macro nutrient sources or percentage allocated to those individual macro nutrients, it will have effects.

What I was getting at is every diet changes things.

Even if this forum allowed or your question was relevant to the topic in regards to hiking I don't know if I could answer succinctly or knowlegably enough.Vast chapters and books have been written and documentries produced examining your second question.

I tend to agree with your last sentence. Excellent pt!

[DrL]

Normal was used as an adjective synonymous with usual, standard, typical, average, or common. What that means in the context of my post is whatever one's diet typically is. Restating, whomever changes that diet in context of changing, for example macro nutrient sources or percentage allocated to those individual macro nutrients, it will have effects.

What I was getting at is every diet changes things.

Even if this forum allowed or your question was relevant to the topic in regards to hiking I don't know if I could answer succinctly or knowlegably enough.Vast chapters and books have been written and documentries produced examining your second question.

I tend to agree with your last sentence. Excellent pt!
Nor did I expect an answer. My post was rhetorical and stems from my own frustration with diets and, more specifically, the forum discussions about them. (It was also probably fueled by a headache and spring allergies ;P). Fad diets gain popularity for a variety of reasons. I like to think that we are cognizant that the current normal isn't working. That there must be something better.

I also think that most people's normal is completely ****ed and a hard reboot is exactly what they need. Even if they struggle and fail to maintain, hopefully they learn something from the experiment and incorporate it into their new normal.

[Wülfgang]

Pardon my ignorance. Is this a rebranded Atkins diet?

Yes.

Not to rain on the OP's parade but the Atkin's Diet along with other iterations of 'keto' diets have been discredited as healthy long-term approaches to eating. Multiple reasons. Certainly effective in the short-term for weight/fat loss and people seem to report other less tangible benefits like mental clarity, better energy, etc.

But on a long trail, it's hard to think of a worse approach to eating. Huge daily energy expenditure, convenience/spoilage factors, and poor metabolic efficiency.

[Dogwood]

Keto is ultra-low carb. Your body goes into ketosis, which helps burn body fast faster.

Yes, typically carbs are in the 5-10% range of total daily caloric intake. Fats are about a whopping 70% of total daily caloric intake. Protein is 20%. In short, the keto diet is another rebranded tweaked high fat low carb(extreme low carb) diet.

That's not normal folks unless youre in a category like the eskimos. And, despite myths the eskimo way of eating, diet, certainly has resulted in negative health and medical consequences.

[Dogwood]

The OP asked valid pointed questions.


...What kind of foods do you recommend carrying on the trail?


How do you supplement your fat intake?


These two questions are related and worth asking!


My 3 cts.


First, absolutely realize there are "good" and "bad" fats and problematic good/bad fat ratios. For example, bad fats are unnaturally occurring trans fats or hydrogenated fats. An example of a problematic bad fat ratio, particularly a problem on trail, is a ratio super high in omega 6 fatty acids to omega 3's. *If 70% of one's diet is coming from fat, and energy is being largely dictated by fats, darn well better be addressing the quality of 70% of ones diet!

What proponents of super high fat super low carb diets sometimes(often?) ignore as they runaway freight train to demonize carbs, only amounting to 5-10% of total daily intake on the keto diet, is the beneficial nutrients carbs can also contain such as fiber, mineral, vitamins, and other nutrients. This is equivalent to obsessing about a few found pennies on the ground - carbs - while ignoring the $50 U.S Grant - the fat - laying next to the pennies.

Since carbs have been so severely restricted make a concerted effort to eat the most nutritionally dense carbs. Energy production and optimal nutritional health is not just about loading up on calories. It is a fallacy to assume otherwise. That means avoiding empty junk food simple highly refined carbs...as is SOO customary for AT hikers that rely on resupply from convenience fast food stores and gas stations. Go for the complex non refined carbs, vitamins, fiber, minerals, better fats/better fat ratios and other nutrients in things like produce (plants), nuts/nut butters, seeds/seed butters...Anyone on such a super high fat super low carb diet had better recognize this as well as recognizing there certainly are a plethora of high fat low carb junk food! Perhaps, on trail, such as the AT, there exists a greater exposure to and temptation for such foods. Since the OP has RV support its easier; that scenario may also be easier from a food wt carrying perspective. Bring tahini, coconut oil, EVOO, almond butter, and grow sprouts on trail and have these at the RV including other produce and high quality fat sources. I'd even consider carrying canned or foil packed(better) seafood such a WC salmon, WC sardines, yellowtail, etc PACKED IN EVOO.


Any general suggestions/experiences with keeping keto are welcome!


To offset those good things in good carb loses I'd be considering mixing in a low sugar keto approved electrolyte/vitamin/probiotic/powdered greens drink supplement.


High sugar is a no no on the keto diet. Again, be wise to not let sugar intake escalate on trail such is common when opting for gas station and fast food convenience store food like junk food options. If you're already limiting fiber it's my guesstimate copious amts of sugar can result in contributing to roller coasting energy and possibly be additionally problematic to a keto dieter.



Lastly, first experimentation of or dialing in a keto diet IMO shouldn't occur on trail. Accustom yourself over some longer term with the keto diet long before you step on trail. THEN, apply what you're already accustomed tweaked to on trail AT backpacking life.


Maybe, some of this has already been considered or known but throwing it out there.

[Hikingchef]

A good snack that my wife and I rely on both for gym days and hiking days are called “fat bombs”. Usually coconut oil with nuts/dried fruits/nut butters mixed in, and maybe some flax/hemp/chia for added fiber. We’ve also added 75%+ chocolate to them before, think bakers chocolate, to add a little boost of quick energy as well as flavor and texture. We keep them individually wrapped in plastic or parchment and deep freeze them before we hike. They thaw slow and can taste pretty good if you make them right.

[Dogwood]

TJ's roasted coconut chips. https://www.amazon.com/Trader-Joes-Roasted-Coconut-Gluten/dp/B00B13UFRI?SubscriptionId=AKIAJ2F6RDUSIYCWQMFQ&tag=sa-b2c-new-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00B13UFRI

Normally( currently) saturated fat is highly frowned upon but perhaps since you're likely expending 4000+ cals/dy backpacking and on a keto diet a little more leeway to saturated fat can be given on trail.

[Dogwood]

Low sugar low/low/non gluten coconut macaroons. Earthfare has really great chocolate ones but probably a little too sweet for your diet.

[Venchka]

Carry ghee. Add it to everything that you eat.
Wayne


Google avocado chips. Apparently they can be dehydrated.
Wayne
I followed instructions Dogwood.
A person would have to try very hard NOT to eat a high fat - low carb diet on a long hike.
Wayne

[Heliotrope]

I followed instructions Dogwood.
A person would have to try very hard NOT to eat a high fat - low carb diet on a long hike.
Wayne

I would say very easy to eat high fat and high carb on trail. More effort required to keep carbs down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Venchka]

I would say very easy to eat high fat and high carb on trail. More effort required to keep carbs down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Or not. Is there a real point to “keeping keto”?
Meanwhile, in another thread, a nutritionist is quoted saying that a sound diet for long term exercise, like hiking for months, is 50% fat, 35% carbs and 15% protein. In round numbers. I’ll try to find the original.
One thing is certain: the Lewis and Clark Expedition lived almost exclusively on venison, elk and bison. It almost killed them. The indigenous population fared much better by including plant life and fish in their diets.
Wayne

[Heliotrope]

Or not. Is there a real point to “keeping keto”?
Meanwhile, in another thread, a nutritionist is quoted saying that a sound diet for long term exercise, like hiking for months, is 50% fat, 35% carbs and 15% protein. In round numbers. I’ll try to find the original.
One thing is certain: the Lewis and Clark Expedition lived almost exclusively on venison, elk and bison. It almost killed them. The indigenous population fared much better by including plant life and fish in their diets.
Wayne

I would have to agree with you except that for the OP it is important to “keep Keto”. What the ideal diet is for on or off trail is a topic sure to inspire and/or inflame many on here. ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dogwood]

Keto is an extremely high fat 70-75% extremely low carb 5-10 % diet.

Whenever one goes to such dietary extremes consequences are bound to occur. I'm not of the opinion those consequences are always beneficial or all the consequences are solely a result of one dietary approach.

I agree with Heliotrope. Very easy to glutton on high fat content high carb high added sugar foods on an AT thru or LASH. That often describes nutritionally delinquent junk food like products. Going low carb, especially extremely low carb as when on a keto diet, takes greater diligence IMO. Again, it's common for AT resupply locations to offer high fat high carb high sugar junk food AND high fat low- med carb low sugar content junk food. Junk food is junk no matter the diet. Junk food and nutrionally poor food choices can occur whether on a keto diet or not as can be the case on a Vegan, vegetarian/plant based, omnivore, Atkins, Paleo, South Beach, raw, macro, etc etc etc diet. It is certainly possible to consume a junk food keto diet. Keto is NOT a panacea against this occurring.

I tend to look at who benefits most on various diets. I've always heard and assumed keto being an option for those motivated to lose wt especially fat in the body, desire satiation, addressing medical conditions like epilepsy, or balancing insulin or blood sugar and on some kind of controlled fast just as Capehiker said. Keto is just another option to those ends. So, I wonder the motivation for keto on trail as that helps understand individual perspectives perhaps allowing for more targeted responses which asssumed is the priority.

As StarChild said earlier even though one may not strictly adhere to keto on trail one can still get into a state of ketosis. I experience this even though not on a keto diet. My motivation usually involves lowering food wt carried out of anal UL and SUL tendencies. It's a approach I sometimes temporarily loosely adhere usually deeper into a LD hike when I no longer desire or can afford losing anymore body wt.

Thus arises another often significant consequence that deserves more discussion...adjusting to dietary and lifestyle changes transitioning back to off trail life.

As an experienced LD hiker having IMO an above avg grasp of diets and nutrition I sometimes still struggle with this. And, I certainly am not the only one! Stats demonstrate a high percentage of dieters on a temp diet motivated by wt loss or addressing adult onset diabetes when they go off the diet not only regain the lost wt but in short time weigh more than before they started the diet. Same thing for those motivated to reduce diabetes symptoms or no longer be diagnosed as a diabetic, or reduce blood pressure, address high cholesterol, etc.

[Venchka]

Or not. Is there a real point to “keeping keto”?
Meanwhile, in another thread, a nutritionist is quoted saying that a sound diet for long term exercise, like hiking for months, is 50% fat, 35% carbs and 15% protein. In round numbers. I’ll try to find the original.
One thing is certain: the Lewis and Clark Expedition lived almost exclusively on venison, elk and bison. It almost killed them. The indigenous population fared much better by including plant life and fish in their diets.
Wayne
I can’t find the thread from a few days ago. I probably have the fat and carbs reversed.
Wayne

[Dogwood]

Or not. Is there a real point to “keeping keto”?

Wayne

That's what I wanted to know. Are there larger motivations for going keto on trail. I want that info not to boo hoo anyone's dietary choices, to each their own, but to perhaps answer more appropriately.

[Riocielo]

Precooked bacon bits. Add to Mac&Cheese, Knorr Sides, instant mashed potatoes, oatmeal, etc.
I thought that “keeping keto” might be related to the “keeping cute” thread. Who invented this new language? Where did this Keto diet thing come from? Why? Enquiring Geezers want to know.
Wayne

I don’t know where it came from, but I’m sure glad it did. It has been the only thing to keep my insulin resistance, impaired glucose tolerance and body weight under control.

Now all my labs are normal, my weight is 64 pounds lighter, my body fat has dropped from 48% to 11%, and I feel great. I, too, am very interested in keeping lower carb on the trail, so I am thankful for this thread.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Riocielo]

Paleo diet is great, worked for thousands of years. I wouldn’t start Keto on the trail, Keto flu and all, but keeping Keto shouldn’t be too hard with all that excercise, probably could go up to 100-150 grams carb and maintain. Much lower inflammatory response with this diet as opposed to standard hiker poorer quality cheap foods. Carry some urine Keto sticks if you want to spot check. Freeze dried avocado. yummmmmmm. Best of luck to you and give us feedback on how you did, energy levels, etc...

Have you actually made freeze dried avocado? What was the texture like? I love avocados, but they are so delicate I would have never thought of taking them on the trail.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Heliotrope]

I don’t know where it came from, but I’m sure glad it did. It has been the only thing to keep my insulin resistance, impaired glucose tolerance and body weight under control.

Now all my labs are normal, my weight is 64 pounds lighter, my body fat has dropped from 48% to 11%, and I feel great. I, too, am very interested in keeping lower carb on the trail, so I am thankful for this thread.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Exactly where I was going with this. The OP has his reasons. If the effect of this diet is keeping his body within normal ranges for insulin and sugar then there is very good reason to think about ways to maintain the good results on trail.

It is possible. May be more challenging. I would not attempt to diagnose or treat anyone online. However, the amount of continuous exercise on a LD hike may allow one to maintain healthy ranges of blood glucose and insulin with more room to eat less than perfectly Keto. Exercise is the other factor besides insulin that allows muscle to take in blood sugar (keeping the levels healthier).

The challenge when exercising this much (hiking)is consuming enough calories. As long as you can meet the demand with Keto friendly foods then you should be in great shape.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dogwood]

I don’t know where it came from, but I’m sure glad it did. It has been the only thing to keep my insulin resistance, impaired glucose tolerance and body weight under control.

Now all my labs are normal, my weight is 64 pounds lighter, my body fat has dropped from 48% to 11%, and I feel great. I, too, am very interested in keeping lower carb on the trail, so I am thankful for this thread.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So, I beg to ask. Are the diet changes the sole cause , the only changes, you've made that can be correlated with the better numbers and med condition. What I'm asking is have there been any other changes in your life that isn't ket related that could also explain the improvements.

Lastly, if keto is resonsible for these improvements I assume to make them long term realized keto is not perceived as a temporary dietary change? So, is your life
Or at least what you consume, going to revolve around keto? Can you FT transition to and long term sustain a keto diet? If not you could be setting yourself up to regress to your former condition.

I hear this so often including from loved family and friends. Look what I've achieved on so and so a diet. But, they can't usually sustain such drastic dietary nor lifestyle changes. And, I point out maybe the improvements shouldnt be perceived entirely as a result of the diet because at the same period you started yoga, meditation, running, consistently hitting the gym, you are getting massages twice a wk, you're now riding a bike more, you went Organic, no longer have tap water as your drinking water source, you reduced or are no longer on prescription meds or taking OTC drugs, etc. All these changes can have positive effects in themselves that possibly can explain all or part of the improvement.

It's like when we see the fitness actor athlete marketer promoting a new get rockhard abs equipment as he or she are showing off their 6 or 8 packs. It's likely they didn't achieve those abs simply by buying and utilizing that piece of fitness equip they are marketing.

[Dogwood]

...the challenge when exercising this much (hiking)is consuming enough calories. As long as you can meet the demand with Keto friendly foods then you should be in great shape.

NO! Getting calories is easy. It's as easy as throwing a bottle of coconut oil, EVOO, or a squeeze bottle of Mr Parkay margarine in your pack. It's proper nutrition that is much more elusive.

As said previously one certainly can consume a strict keto diet of nutrionally dismal food. One can be keto and not get the nutrients there body needs.

Sustaining these diets requires long term lifestyle changes. More folks fail at this than succeed. Then, off to buy into the next temporary dietary fad. It's the same scenario with fitness equipment purchases and gym memberships.

A calorie isn't some magical energy thing or measurement that can be had on its own. A calorie is somthing that requires a carrying case called food. Food is never just a calorie. That carrying case - food- has far more other things in it than just a calorie. Those other things play significant roles in realizing energy, health, and we'll being.

[kestral]

To get back to OP.....

i have an impulse sealer and use it to make bags about 2 inches wide and 4 inches tall. I place the bags in ice cube trays to keep them standing up, and pour melted ghee or coconut oil or ev olive oil into them ( about 1 1/2 oz works well) pop them in freezer. When set, push out air and seal top.

The bags are cut down from those food saver bags you can get from Walmart. They are heavy , textured plastic that is food safe.

I store these here in a large ziplock in freezer between hikes to preserve. They really don’t go bad even when left in the car for a month.

These can be added into any meal for calories, they are healthy fats, about 120 cal per oz, help satisfy hunger, taste great, can be used for body lotion in a pinch and are easy to pack.

They are extremely coveted by fellow backpackers and I usually bring extra to give away ( to compensate for my farty dog) when I’m in shelters.

This is is probably my favorite hiker hack. Followed by dehydrated aloe infused baby wipes. (Another contentious thread)

Also, to OP, if keto is working for you, Great! If not... not so hard to add in healthy high carb dehydrated fruits, nuts, whole grains, which aren’t trash food. Good to see someone thinking about their food as fuel and nutrition, rather then just calories per ounce, regardless of food value.

There is more than only one right way to eat. Best to you, HYOH, eat your own food!

[kestral]

Another small point concerning ketosis which you probably already know, but just in case. You will become dehydrated more easily while in ketosis, be careful to monitor you skin turger and feeling of headache which will worsen if dehydrated. You may need more salt than most. A fat pinch of sea salt to your water bottle will help. Probably won’t be an issue if you have been following diet and excercise pattern for awhile, may happen with new hikers.

[AllDownhillFromHere]

i have an impulse sealer and use it to make bags about 2 inches wide and 4 inches tall. ...

Ever try a whole pint in a platypus bladder? I've seen it done, but always worried that it would pop.

[Dogwood]

Another small point concerning ketosis which you probably already know, but just in case. You will become dehydrated more easily while in ketosis, be careful to monitor you skin turger and feeling of headache which will worsen if dehydrated. You may need more salt than most. A fat pinch of sea salt to your water bottle will help. Probably won’t be an issue if you have been following diet and excercise pattern for awhile, may happen with new hikers.

Responded to this possible need earlier. "To offset those good things in good carb loses I'd be considering mixing in a low sugar keto approved electrolyte/vitamin/probiotic/powdered greens drink supplement.

[Dogwood]

Another small point concerning ketosis which you probably already know, but just in case. You will become dehydrated more easily while in ketosis, be careful to monitor you skin turger and feeling of headache which will worsen if dehydrated. You may need more salt than most. A fat pinch of sea salt to your water bottle will help. Probably won’t be an issue if you have been following diet and excercise pattern for awhile, may happen with new hikers.

Responded to this possible need earlier. "To offset those good things in good carb loses I'd be considering mixing in a low sugar keto approved electrolyte/vitamin/probiotic/powdered greens drink supplement.

[Dogwood]

Also, to OP, if keto is working for you, Great! If not... not so hard to add in healthy high carb dehydrated fruits, nuts, whole grains, which aren’t trash food. Good to see someone thinking about their food as fuel and nutrition, rather then just calories per ounce, regardless of food value.

There is more than only one right way to eat.

This agrees with what I've been saying like forever.

[Dogwood]

Also, to OP, if keto is working for you, Great! If not... not so hard to add in healthy high carb dehydrated fruits, nuts, whole grains, which aren’t trash food. Good to see someone thinking about their food as fuel and nutrition, rather then just calories per ounce, regardless of food value.

There is more than only one right way to eat.

This agrees with what I've been saying like forever.

[Venchka]

OK, here's the deal:

The quote from the article found by following the FAT link:
“ For Long Distance hikers:
Half the fat that you burn is from storage, half is supplied by the food you eat. To minimize pack weight, choose a higher fat menu. A 50-35-15 Diet on the trail is reasonable:

45-55% Calories from carbohydrate
35-40% Calories from fat
10-15% Calories from protein”
Filed for future use.
Thanks!
Wayne
http://thru-hiker.com/articles/pack_light_eat_right.php

As for the WARNING above about "keeping keto" and dehydration: Just what the novice =needs when leaving Campo NOBO on the PCT.
Nobody has yet to tell us what planet "keeping cute", "keeping keto" and "I am wanting to ..." originated on. This language was not taught in the Honors English classes that I attended in Southwest Louisiana.
PS: Don't even think about it. :banana
Wayne

[kestral]

Ever try a whole pint in a platypus bladder? I've seen it done, but always worried that it would pop.

Never tried that, I do smaller section hikes. If I did I would put the oil filled platty in a ziplock for added protection. They are a great light weight bang for the buck!

[AllDownhillFromHere]

Never tried that, I do smaller section hikes. If I did I would put the oil filled platty in a ziplock for added protection. They are a great light weight bang for the buck!
One brand I found was 16oz plastic bottles, so I packed that one time. I think it was a store brand though, I didn't always find it. I still ziplocked it though.

[kestral]

Have you actually made freeze dried avocado? What was the texture like? I love avocados, but they are so delicate I would have never thought of taking them on the trail.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

i have made freeze dried avocado. I bought a harvest right freeze dryer last year, couldn’t recommend it because of problems with the vacum pump. Now they have a new vacum pump which is much more expensive, but much less hassle.

Got fresh avocados for. 4/ $1. Got about fourty of them! Let them ripen to peak creamy richness, cut them up and freeze dried them. they are crisp, yet creamy, hard to describe. Very yummy snack out of the jar, or mix with wet tomatoes, let rehydrate and add to salad. They are very good. Surprised they are not massed produced for general sale yet- sure they would sell.
Keto type diet not for everyone, but I have tried to follow a paleo diet as described in book “PrimalBody primal Mind for about 1 year with great improvement in health, mental clarity and improved blood Chemistry markers. It is worth a look see if you have medical issues and woUld like to consider a dietary approach to health. Diet is very personal, much like religion, this works for me, not trying to shove it down anyone else’s throat. I find it to be a sustainable and animal humane eating plan. Lots of green veggies, moderate pastured animal protein, moderate amounts of high quality fat. Miss my French fries, but I don’t feel sick after I eat anymore.. works for me!

[Dogwood]

Isn't that ironic, a southwestern Louisiana man complaining about the language of others? I don't know what folks are saying from that region half the time. In all fairness they probably say the same about me.:D

[Dogwood]

Got fresh avocados for. 4/ $1. Got about fourty of them! Let them ripen to peak creamy richness, cut them up and freeze dried them. they are crisp, yet creamy, hard to describe. Very yummy snack out of the jar, or mix with wet tomatoes, let rehydrate and add to salad. They are very good. Surprised they are not massed produced for general sale yet- sure they would sell

Hass? Water content of Hass avos is low, even less than the commonly seen in the US Cavendish banana. I would imagine a rather dry texture if freeze dried. I had some only once, only crumbled small pieces from a Vegan hiker. Thought some of the flavor had been extracted.

There are many other avo types other than the FL and Haas that for whatever reasons never make it to the US mainland, with a higher water content, different flavor, different texture, color, seed size, etc.

[Venchka]

Isn't that ironic, a southwestern Louisiana man complaining about the language of others? I don't know what folks are saying from that region half the time. In all fairness they probably say the same about me.:D
LOL! I sometimes can’t understand my little brother who grew up in Lafayette.
I’m blaming the disappearance of the English language on computers. In the hands of youngsters.
Wayne

[Riocielo]

So, I beg to ask. Are the diet changes the sole cause , the only changes, you've made that can be correlated with the better numbers and med condition. What I'm asking is have there been any other changes in your life that isn't ket related that could also explain the improvements.

Lastly, if keto is resonsible for these improvements I assume to make them long term realized keto is not perceived as a temporary dietary change? So, is your life
Or at least what you consume, going to revolve around keto? Can you FT transition to and long term sustain a keto diet? If not you could be setting yourself up to regress to your former condition.

I hear this so often including from loved family and friends. Look what I've achieved on so and so a diet. But, they can't usually sustain such drastic dietary nor lifestyle changes. And, I point out maybe the improvements shouldnt be perceived entirely as a result of the diet because at the same period you started yoga, meditation, running, consistently hitting the gym, you are getting massages twice a wk, you're now riding a bike more, you went Organic, no longer have tap water as your drinking water source, you reduced or are no longer on prescription meds or taking OTC drugs, etc. All these changes can have positive effects in themselves that possibly can explain all or part of the improvement.

It's like when we see the fitness actor athlete marketer promoting a new get rockhard abs equipment as he or she are showing off their 6 or 8 packs. It's likely they didn't achieve those abs simply by buying and utilizing that piece of fitness equip they are marketing.

Frankly, except for walking, I am exercising less since starting keto. Not by design, but my gym closed and I haven’t found a replacement. No other changes.

I feel so much better on keto, it is great incentive to continue. I dont find it difficult to maintain, even when eating out, because there are so many other choices. (Well maybe not if eating at a Mexican restaurant.)

I do intend this to be a life time change, mainly because I know of no other way to keep my insulin resistance and impaired glucose tolerance under control on a long term basis. I don’t think though that my life does or will “revolve around keto.” It is more that I make different food choices than I used to.

At 64 pounds lost, I am now actively trying not to lose anymore weight. This simply means eating more non-starchy carbs. For the first time in my adult life I feel like I have a real chance of keeping my weight down. It sure makes hiking easier!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Riocielo]

Another small point concerning ketosis which you probably already know, but just in case. You will become dehydrated more easily while in ketosis, be careful to monitor you skin turger and feeling of headache which will worsen if dehydrated. You may need more salt than most. A fat pinch of sea salt to your water bottle will help. Probably won’t be an issue if you have been following diet and excercise pattern for awhile, may happen with new hikers.

I DO find I need more salt, and magnesium, on keto.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Dogwood]

64 lbs? :clap :jump :banana

Keep it off. Make long term lifestyle changes. Change is good!

[TexasBob]

....... I don’t think though that my life does or will “revolve around keto.” It is more that I make different food choices than I used to. At 64 pounds lost, I am now actively trying not to lose anymore weight. This simply means eating more non-starchy carbs. For the first time in my adult life I feel like I have a real chance of keeping my weight down. It sure makes hiking easier!.............

Many people would love to lose the weight that you have been able to lose and you should be very proud of your accomplishment. It is not easy to change your eating habits. I am sure you feel better and see a new you whenever you look in the mirror. I hope that you keep the weight off over the next few years as it is easy to forgot about those different food choices and fall back into bad habits. Now that you know what habits are healthy for you and what wasn't it will be easy to know if you are getting off track.

[Riocielo]

Many people would love to lose the weight that you have been able to lose and you should be very proud of your accomplishment. It is not easy to change your eating habits. I am sure you feel better and see a new you whenever you look in the mirror. I hope that you keep the weight off over the next few years as it is easy to forgot about those different food choices and fall back into bad habits. Now that you know what habits are healthy for you and what wasn't it will be easy to know if you are getting off track.Thank you so much for the encouraging words! It has been a real learning experience, both about myself and what I eat.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[Riocielo]

64 lbs? :clap :jump :banana

Keep it off. Make long term lifestyle changes. Change is good!Thanks so much! I am determined for this to be a positive lifestyle change.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[Camptastrophe]

I live keto—low-carbohydrate, high-fat, and moderate protein.
I consider it a lifestyle, not a diet.
I went keto to lose weight and send type II diabetes in to remission.

It's worked very well for me.
I've never had a problem with 'keto flu,' serious constipation, or any other negatives.
I lost over 100 lbs., was able to go off diabetes medications and my a1c now runs ~5.0.
I want to keep my blood insulin and blood sugar levels low/steady at all times so 'carbing-up' isn't an option.

Other than increasing protein, carbohydrates, and fats a little bit (while mainating about the same ratio)—oh, and going stoveless, I eat about the same on trail as I do off.

I recommend studying the nutrient density and energy density of the keto foods that you like.
Then compare the nutrient density and energy density to cost, weight, etc. to determine what foods will serve you most efficiently.

Some high fat, high energy foods I favor: Raw coconut oil, grass-fed beef tallow, EVOO, ghee from grass-fed cows, avocado oil, to name a few.

Wild tuna and salmon in pouches are good sources of protein and natural fats.
Sardines, kippers and anchovies packed in olive oil are good options.

Nut and seed butters are good sources of fat, protein, and carbohydrates.

Jerky, bitlong, pre-cooked bacon, summer sausage, landjäger, kabanosy and the like are great, trail-friendly, keto options.

Hard cheeses are good.

Some good carbohydrate, vitamin, and mineral options are dried blueberries, raspberries, cranberries, rose hips, kelp, sun-dried tomatoes, pumpkin seeds, and the like. In moderation, of course.

There are hundreds of nutritious, high-energy, keto-friendly, trail-friendly foods.

:)

[kestral]

Camptastrophy, you and I are on the same page with the ancestral diet success. Wish I had started in my teens. Unfortunately, most see this as a “fad” diet, not the sustainable, most normal human nutrition we have found it to be. It’s hard to fight AHA and diabetic diets, so much money misplaced in health care and by our own government protecting agriculture. Montesano has much to answer for. All I can say to naysayers is do your homework- the facts are the facts! My body weight is normal now after years of hungry low fat dieting, prescribed by my doctors. I have perfect blood chemistries now, after years of struggle with lipedemia. My friends see me snacking on coconut butter cookies and cold steak, think I am insane! But the proof is in the pudding- I’m at my healthiest in years, no cravings, 1 remaining med, perfect labs. HYOH, eat your own diet, keto on the trail, hell yeah!

[Dogwood]

Over 100 lbs? Thats like the wt of a horse foal. I tip my hat. Way to go.:banana

[Camptastrophe]

Camptastrophy, you and I are on the same page with the ancestral diet success. Wish I had started in my teens. Unfortunately, most see this as a “fad” diet, not the sustainable, most normal human nutrition we have found it to be. It’s hard to fight AHA and diabetic diets, so much money misplaced in health care and by our own government protecting agriculture. Montesano has much to answer for. All I can say to naysayers is do your homework- the facts are the facts! My body weight is normal now after years of hungry low fat dieting, prescribed by my doctors. I have perfect blood chemistries now, after years of struggle with lipedemia. My friends see me snacking on coconut butter cookies and cold steak, think I am insane! But the proof is in the pudding- I’m at my healthiest in years, no cravings, 1 remaining med, perfect labs. HYOH, eat your own diet, keto on the trail, hell yeah!

Yeah, I agree! :)

[Camptastrophe]

Thank you very much! :)

[Camptastrophe]

Thanks, Dogwood! :)

[stumpknocker]

I haven't chimed in on this thread until now because I'm new to the keto lifestyle.
Started keto nearly three months ago (12-17-2017) because I was fat and not getting any better.
Stepped on the scale last December 17th and it was reading 275 lbs.

I was disgusted at myself because my normal adult weight has been 232 lbs.
Had been introduced to this lifestyle when I read "The Obesity Code" by Dr Jason Fung and decided to give it a try.
It was the easiest way of eating and losing weight for me, while still feeling satiated.
Jumped right in to just one meal a day and almost never feel hungry.

Weighed in this morning at 231 lbs...which historically has been my decades long ideal weight.
That's 44 lbs lighter!
Spent lots of money on lightweight gear when I really needed to focus on my own body weight instead.
My backpack weighs 20 to 22 lbs, so I have lost the equivalent weight of two whole backpacks in this short time.

Really looking forward to my next long walk coming up soon...those hills should be easier this year.
Pretty sure I'll be able to stay eating keto style on the trail.
I recently paddled the entire Suwannee River and stayed kept easily. Hoping it works the same for backpacking.

[One Half]

When you first go into ketosis many people feel sick.

Also known as the 'carb flu,' the keto flu is a natural reaction (almost like a feeling of withdrawal) your body undergoes when switching from burning glucose (sugar) as energy to burning fat instead. In fact, some people say the keto flu symptoms can actually feel similar to withdrawing from an addictive substance.

The keto diet was originally designed for severe epelitics.

The ketogenic diet is a high-fat, adequate-protein, low-carbohydrate diet that in medicine is used primarily to treat difficult-to-control (refractory) epilepsy in children. The diet forces the body to burn fats rather than carbohydrates. Normally, the carbohydrates contained in food are converted into glucose, which is then transported around the body and is particularly important in fueling brain-function. However, if there is little carbohydrate in the diet, the liver converts fat into fatty acids and ketone bodies. The ketone bodies pass into the brain and replace glucose as an energy source. An elevated level of ketone bodies in the blood, a state known as ketosis, leads to a reduction in the frequency of epileptic seizures.[1] Almost half of children, and young people, with epilepsy who have tried some form of this diet saw the number of seizures drop by at least half, and the effect persists even after discontinuing the diet.[2] There is some evidence that adults with epilepsy may benefit from the diet, and that a less strict regimen, such as a modified Atkins diet, is similarly effective.[1] The most common adverse effect is constipation, affecting about 30% of patients—this was due to fluid restriction, which was once a feature of the diet, but this led to increased risk of kidney stones and is no longer considered beneficial.[2][3]

I'm not keto but I've thought about it and researched it.

This is a really good explanation except for the fact that our brains LIKE burning FAT for fuel over glucose. Otherwise the human race would have never survived when early humans had very limited access to carbs due to seasonal and geographic issues.

[One Half]

My take is that on any diet that restricts or vastly alters normal carb, protein, and fat intake is going to have effects.

From that, I would ask is that dietary regimen sustainstable or is it just thought of as temporary, as many taken to diet fads typically define.
Americans do NOT have "normal carb intake." The carbs most eat are literally killing them. Causing the body to overproduce insulin and store fat which causes failure of the pancreas, creates inflammation throughout the body, and then a whole host of issues besides like elevated triglycerides, blood sugars, blood pressure, etc

[One Half]

for the OP: I would suggest you check out the fat adapted athlete group on facebook. lots of really good info to combat all the crap that's being spewed in this thread

[One Half]

there's also a keto backpacking group on facebook

[Camptastrophe]

This is a really good explanation except for the fact that our brains LIKE burning FAT for fuel over glucose.

Not according to the scientific information that I've read.

"Brain. Glucose is virtually the sole fuel for the human brain, except during prolonged starvation."
In starvation, ketone bodies generated by the liver partly replace glucose as fuel for the brain.

Source: Biochemistry. 5th edition. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22436/)

Protein, as well as lactate and glycerol, can be converted to glucose, when needed, via the process of gluconeogenesis.

"Gluconeogenesis (GNG) is a metabolic process of making glucose, a necessary body fuel, from non-carbohydrate sources such as protein (amino acids), lactate from the muscles and the glycerol component of fatty acids."

Source: Ketogenic Diet Resource (https://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/gluconeogenesis.html)

Links to Gluconeogensis information via Google Scholar. (https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C33&q=Gluconeogensis+protein+glucose&btnG=)

[Camptastrophe]

"The Obesity Code" by Dr Jason Fung

That's, generally, the plan I follow. He has a new book coming out at the end of the month, "The Diabetes Code."


That's 44 lbs lighter!

Congratulations on the weight lose! :)

[Camptastrophe]

there's also a keto backpacking group on facebook

Thanks for the heads-up!

:)

[HeartFire]

First, there is a facebook group for ketogenic backpackers - it's nice to be among like minded people.

I'm in the process of experimenting with keto 'bars' for hiking. Cacao butter, protein powder, MCT oil powder and a few other ingredients - cacao nibs, nuts, berries etc. ( the cacao butter and mct oil powder should arrive today - I had to order them on line). We'll see what I can come up with!

[HeartFire]

I should have also mentioned, I'm vegetarian, so no meats or fish for me - that would make it easier though.

[Dogwood]

Americans do NOT have "normal carb intake." The carbs most eat are literally killing them. Causing the body to overproduce insulin and store fat which causes failure of the pancreas, creates inflammation throughout the body, and then a whole host of issues besides like elevated triglycerides, blood sugars, blood pressure, etc

^^^ Totally agree!:banana

[Nolan "Guido" Jordan]

Here's what I recommend. I do a restricted paleo diet with zero sugar, no artificial sweeteners, uninflammatory, carb-less, and full of fat and protein.
I'm doing a week-long hike through the first 80 miles in Georgia, and here's what I'm bringing food wise,
Several bags of trail mix... pecans, grain-free granola mix, freeze-dried blueberries, dried ming cherries, macadamia nuts, bits of 80% dark chocolate, and pistachios.
Macadamia nuts are a must-have when hiking. They're so full of fat. One gram of fat is more calorie-dense than carbs.
Rx bars, just a few Larabars, EPIC bars, Chomps Beef Sticks, special pre-workout Protein Paleo Powder in the morning, plus some chicken bone broth packets.

I wouldn't take avocados or sardines, just because avocados are only ripe for a short period of time, and you don't know exactly when they are. Plus, they take up lots of space. Usually, sardines are packaged in tin cans which make them heavy to carry.

[BillyGr]

I wouldn't take avocados or sardines, just because avocados are only ripe for a short period of time, and you don't know exactly when they are. Plus, they take up lots of space. Usually, sardines are packaged in tin cans which make them heavy to carry.

No idea if they are available many places or not, but one of our local stores had Chicken of the Sea sardines in a pouch like you often see tuna packed in. May have just been a one time thing, though as they do get odd items at times, but if shopping it might be an item to check for in different spots to see if they are more widespread.

[RockDoc]

Man there's a lot of uninformed bs on this thread by people with no experience with a keto diet. Yet there are a refreshing few who get it, many thanks (Kudos, or Ketos) to them!

Keto is the default human energy system, not a dietary fad. This is how we survived the Pleistocene ice ages and thousands of famines worldwide for most of our history. Our bodies are a storage battery meant to carry fat for fuel and then burn it later. We can also run on glucose (carbs), although it is inefficient because our bloodstream can hold only a few teaspoons of glycogen at a time. So running on carbs becomes a constant struggle with feeding and being hungry, as insulin jacks and plummets, jacks and plummets. Not good, and certainly not ancestral. And finally your pancreas burns out from all the unnatural sugar jolts that it never developed to handle... since sugar was scarce and seasonal for most of human history.

A lot of physiology seems to correct and improve on a keto diet. HDL rises, trigs plummet, glucose stabilizes, fat mass decreases, and ketones improve cognitive function. Diabetes reverses (60% according to Virta Health's clinical studies). Arthritis and other chronic conditions are often relieved as inflammation decreases. Sports performance can increase. This is all really spectacular stuff!

One of the misconceptions is that you have to eat a high fat diet. No, ketones are a response to low carbs, not high fat. If you want to burn body fat, keep dietary fat low. And high protein intake won't throw you out of ketosis, that's a false rumor.

I've hiked and run endurance events on keto for over two years and I love it. You don't get hungry. Energy supply is very stable. You no longer think about food all the time, and you don't really need to carry much food. I think the smartest people to follow in the ketosphere are Mark Sisson and Ted Naiman. But avoid the uninformed masses and the general press garbage, please.

[Dogwood]

Americans do NOT have "normal carb intake." The carbs most eat are literally killing them. Causing the body to overproduce insulin and store fat which causes failure of the pancreas, creates inflammation throughout the body, and then a whole host of issues besides like elevated triglycerides, blood sugars, blood pressure, etc

^^^ Totally agree!:banana


I hastily made this comment.


The part I agree is, "Americans do NOT have "normal carb intake. The carbs most eat are literally killing them." I agree because in the U.S. we're oversold on refined highly processed packaged foods and refined highly processed carbs, darlings of modern food "science" technology and national agricultural practices. There are two selling point buzz words to be aware - science and technology. Keto and ancestral/Paleo dietary approaches push away from consuming refined carbs and refined highly processed packaged food like substances which has positive benefits in themselves for those accustomed to the SAD. Take that stuff out, or at least limit it, in the SAD and one is very likely to experience health benefits! It's highly significant to note the potential health positives of that single dietary change of habit! Keto and Paleo push towards complex carbs from things like fresh vegetables in their approach to carb consumption. It's not carbs, all carbs, that are equally the culprit in these diets!

The other parts are not so much I totally agree or disagree. It's more complicated than zeroing in on 'carbs' being the problem in those listed cause and effect relationships. This is the reductionist nutritional approach, a marketing darling of the processed food and dietary fad industries to name two of the big players. The reductionist approach and Nutritionism are two of the leading causes of nutritional confusion and nutritional debate - to know what to eat. To borrow from Michael Pollan, we didn't need celebrity food all star experts - 'food science high priests and priestesses' - to tell us what to eat in the past and in some ways we were healthier without them and the reductionist nutritional approach, common modern food "science" technological practices, industrialized agriculture, and Nutritionism! More sound wider view nutritional science is more complex than myopically focusing on individual food compounds like demonizing carbs. How about thinking holistically when it comes to diet, nutrition, and health care, a greater whole, a greater number of interconnected influences? Zeroing in on demonizing and promoting individual nutrients is a major food and fad diet marketing tactic. i.e.' bananas - potassium, coffee - caffeine, berries - antioxidants(ohh watch out for that one - antioxidants), meat - protein(OMG!), "nutritional" bars - high in protein, cow's milk - calcium, does a body good?), yogurt - probiotics, gluten free, low fat, low sugar, low carbs, high in protein - the protein protein mantra, no trans fats, Organic, on and on. Ever been on a merry-go-round too long becoming disoriented? No wonder why we are nutritionally rattled.

The human body can over produce insulin for other reasons related to sedentary lifestyles, obesity, and high blood pressure, as some examples. Ignoring these other correlated causes while demonizing carbs as the enemy in selling low carb dietary approaches is the current rage. Dont think the trillion dollar diet, "nutritional", "health", various agricultural sectors, food politics, etc don't influence what's popular. It's not all pure science. Whatever pure might mean? Sedentary lifestyles, obesity and high blood pressure aren't always so carb consumption related either! Since Diabetes Type II is a major cause of U.S. fatalities and related symptoms many look for the smoking gun and it can lead to recommending low carb diets while ignoring the role fats can play. Fats can play a major role in pancreas and over insulin production disorders.

Inflammation can be caused by a great many things - bacteria, pathogens, non dietary toxins, pre-existing diseases, etc. To attribute carb intake as the cause of inflammatory responses is a ridiculously narrowed view. It certainly CAN BE involved in pro inflammation responses however!

*How about this approach to reducing dietary associated inflammation - reduce sugar intake(major source of inflammation in the SAD), trans fats(hydrogenated crap!), dairy/dairy derived compunds(can be a major cause of inflammation in the SAD), processed meat and meat cooked at high temperatures, artificial sweeteners like aspartame, sodium, MSG, casein(dairy, non human sourced), gluten, excessive alcohol consumption(don't be so utterly consumption oriented?), and REFINED carbohydrates? *THE SOURCE of much of this in the SAD is HIGHLY REFINED HIGHLY PROCESSED PACKAGED food like substances, products of mainstream American food "science" and American modern industrialized food "science" technologies. Avoidance of these refined highly processed substances is one of the greatest potential positives for Americans no matter their labeled diet. Yet, go into any U.S. grocery store and most of the products being sold are highly processed highly refined with long shelf lives and extensive ingredient lists packaged "comfort" foods. Grocery stores dedicate most of their shelf space oriented to selling these products and not because it's purely consumer driven uninfluenced by seller motivations and shaping market demand. These products are highly profitable for the food industry. Entertain trail diet thread discussions and what tends to prevail? Is it not consumption of highly processed refined packaged often junk food like products?


If there's one word that so influences nutrition, diets, agriculture, health 'care' products, fitness machine/products, pharmaceutical and supplement industry, sports wear industry... at the core of billions in revenue is the buzz word - fat. We've been conditioned to have that word grab our attention. Tread lightly around that word and step back my friends. Sooo much 'stuff' has been sold centered around that word. The Keto Diet is but one current example of 'stuff' being sold centered around fat. Tread lightly oh Dorothy, of the man behind the curtain pulling the levers in control of the commotion.

Might also tread lightly around PBS healthcare infommercial claims. They are ADVERTISEMENTS - fiduciary motivations included in the caring celebrity Doctor's presentations of the latest scientific research!

[Dogwood]

One of the misconceptions is that you have to eat a high fat diet. No, ketones are a response to low carbs, not high fat. If you want to burn body fat, keep dietary fat low. And high protein intake won't throw you out of ketosis, that's a false rumor.

I'm non combatively asking or dietary debating RockDoc. :) So if your diet is low carb and low fat caloric your getting a mega dose whopping of cals from protein sources? Kinda atkins keto paleo? LOL How is that high of a protein caloric diet being accomplished you advise? Can a diet high in protein be linked to causes? Is that not applying a nutrient demonizing approach?

[One Half]

I hastily made this comment.

The part I agree is, "Americans do NOT have "normal carb intake. The carbs most eat are literally killing them." I agree because in the U.S. we're oversold on refined highly processed packaged foods and refined highly processed carbs, darlings of modern food "science" technology and national agricultural practices. There are two selling point buzz words to be aware - science and technology. Keto and ancestral/Paleo dietary approaches push away from consuming refined carbs and refined highly processed packaged food like substances which has positive benefits in themselves for those accustomed to the SAD. Take that stuff out, or at least limit it, in the SAD and one is very likely to experience health benefits! It's highly significant to note the potential health positives of that single dietary change of habit! Keto and Paleo push towards complex carbs from things like fresh vegetables in their approach to carb consumption. It's not carbs, all carbs, that are equally the culprit in these diets!

The other parts are not so much I totally agree or disagree. It's more complicated than zeroing in on 'carbs' being the problem in those listed cause and effect relationships.

Yes, vegetables and fruits and berries all provide "good carbs." We eat these. We eat almost no "processed" foods. We buy nearly 100% single ingredient foods. We don't consume chemical additives. We don't put crap on our skin like moisturizers and makeup etc.

[Dogwood]

Not that you need anyone's nod but you've shared great steps you've taken IMHO. You're willing to raise your consciousness level. Displaying a willingness to see things through is a big part of taking back control of one's individual diet and health rather than complacently letting others with perhaps different or self serving agendas do it. You bet, it's your life.

R U still doing monk fruit, 100% MF? I think you once said you do 100% MF? I've only tried it once or twice but it may have contained other ingredients.

[Dogwood]

Yes, vegetables and fruits and berries all provide "good carbs." We eat these. We eat almost no "processed" foods. We buy nearly 100% single ingredient foods. We don't consume chemical additives. We don't put crap on our skin like moisturizers and makeup etc.
I'm in a trivia kinda mood. Are tomatoes fruits or vegetables? Are eggplants and peppers fruits? Are zucchini fruits or vegetables. How about cucumbers? Do they fit into keto or paleo low carb diets? What common nutrient is extremely high in all of them? :-?

[Traillium]

I'm in a trivia kinda mood. Are tomatoes fruits or vegetables? Are eggplants and peppers fruits? Are zucchini fruits or vegetables. How about cucumbers? Do they fit into keto or paleo low carb diets? What common nutrient is extremely high in all of them? :-?

Water.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dogwood]

Energy providing nutrient?

Good though.

[Traillium]

Energy providing nutrient? Good though.

Carbs — of a very broad variety. Mono-, di-, oligo-, poly-saccharides, muco-polysaccharides, … the list goes on. The stuff of plants. The stuff of photosynthesis.

“There’s no stigma in being a botanist.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[One Half]

I'm in a trivia kinda mood. Are tomatoes fruits or vegetables? Are eggplants and peppers fruits? Are zucchini fruits or vegetables. How about cucumbers? Do they fit into keto or paleo low carb diets? What common nutrient is extremely high in all of them? :-?
LOL. Tomatoes are actually fruits. They used to be called the "love fruit" or something like that. Evidently peppers are technically fruits as well.

You've got me stumped with all these questions. All I know is these foods don;t raise my blood sugars so I eat them. OK, tomatoes do but I eat some of them anyway. Need them on my salads.

I hope you answer your own questions for me.

[Dogwood]

“There’s no stigma in being a botanist.”

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"What a humus." :D

LOL. Tomatoes are actually fruits. They used to be called the "love fruit" or something like that. Evidently peppers are technically fruits as well.

You've got me stumped with all these questions. All I know is these foods don;t raise my blood sugars so I eat them. OK, tomatoes do but I eat some of them anyway. Need them on my salads.

I hope you answer your own questions for me.

The bot knows all too well they are all ripened ovaries, seed bearing structures from flowering plants - fruits. Traillium is just playing coy with this Hort head.

As a percentage of major caloric providing macronutrients (fats, carbs, protein) breakdown in a food's total calories(not caloric density which measures calories by wt or volume), mostly complex carbs.

[Cinco]

Good thread, lots of useful info.

Thought I'd share this, as it's been a really useful resource for me...

https://alpinescience.com/keto-backpacking/

[kestral]

Thanks for the link, I found it very helpful too.
Good thread, lots of useful info.

Thought I'd share this, as it's been a really useful resource for me...

https://alpinescience.com/keto-backpacking/

[RockDoc]

I'm non combatively asking or dietary debating RockDoc. :) So if your diet is low carb and low fat caloric your getting a mega dose whopping of cals from protein sources? Kinda atkins keto paleo? LOL How is that high of a protein caloric diet being accomplished you advise? Can a diet high in protein be linked to causes? Is that not applying a nutrient demonizing approach?

What the hell are you talking about? This makes no sense to me.

[OwenM]

Any general suggestions/experiences with keeping keto are welcome!
Frankly, I don't give a crap about staying keto on a long hike, and am not about to get into a diet discussion here(for hopefully obvious reasons), but read up on the "Targeted Ketogenic Diet".
Actually thought I invented that year before last, for mountain biking and weightlifting on keto, but recently discovered it's an actual thing, with it's own little acronym and all.
It's what I do when dropping fat, but also engaging in activities where my performance suffers due to the diet.
In a nutshell, a reasonable amount of carbs, pre and mid activity that quickly depletes glycogen stores, isn't going to hurt anything, and can greatly enhance performance.

[OhioHiker]

I only go for a night or two. I freeze meats, pre cooked frozen chicken, veggies. You can also get farm eggs; they don’t require refrigeration. There is also precooked bacon that doesn’t require refrigeration.

There are also Adkins type bars, no carb breads and pita.