PDA

View Full Version : Number of Hikers Increasing, Stable or Decreasin?



Dan Roper
03-01-2018, 05:06
I've seen the thread regarding increased thru-hiker attempts and bigger bubbles on the AT the past few years. There seems to be a consensus that AT use is way up. But I haven't noticed an increase in use of the trails I frequent, including the AT (at least when I'm on it). The amount of use definitely hasn't kept pace with the increase in population. It seems to me that fewer and fewer young folks are comfortable in the woods, most of them growing up in an electronic age where the woods are far more alien than they are to those of us a bit older. And it seems to me far more common for folks who do get out to stay tethered to cars, pulling into overlooks, walking a few feet on a trail, and returning to their cars having enjoyed a magnificent day "outdoors."

If I'm right, then use of trails will actually decline in coming years. Perhaps we in our 40s, 50s, 60s and older are a bubble of our own. As we age, will there be fewer hikers to take our places? Is the electronic age breeding a new generation for whom the friction of distance, in Aldo Leopold's words, is insurmountable?

My 40 years of hiking and backpacking has been primarily in north Georgia, east Tennessee and western North Carolina. I've been in Georgia's Cohutta Wilderness Area regularly since the early '90s. The number of hikers on CWA trails doesn't seem to have increased, even though the population in the surrounding areas (Atlanta, north Georgia, Chattanooga) has boomed. Even the popular Jacks River Falls area seems about the same. Sometimes there will be several score people there (just as in the '90s) but other times I have it to myself for hours on a Friday afternoon.

I started section hiking the AT annually in 2007 at Springer and reached the Grayson Highlands in 2017. Most of my backpacking on the AT has been done in July, August, and September, with a scattering early or later. I haven't noticed greater use now than in the past.

I've section hiked the Pinhoti Trail in north Georgia in 2017-18 from High Point to Highway 52 (about 75 woods, non-road miles). I can't recall meeting another hiker on the Pinhoti, though I have encountered a couple of mountain bikers. A week ago I did a 15-mile stretch near Fort Mountain and didn't see another hiker but did meet one very overweight man in a pickup truck at a trail head and another on an ATV near a trail head. Other than that it was just woods and splashing creeks and sore feet.

What do you ladies and gents think? Is use of our hiking trails keeping pace with the population increase, holding steady or declining...or somewhere in between?

Leo L.
03-01-2018, 05:57
I can only speak fo my area (the Alps) and there definitely is an ever increasing use of outdoors.
By far the most of it is things that get advertised: Going up by cable car, (BC-)skiing, snowshoeing, MTBs, via ferrata, rock climbing and hiking.
The net of established pists, paths and tracks is dense and ever growing, up to a size that there is hardly any wilderness left.
That said, the increasing number of people use the developed ways exclusively. Go out of the way for a few km and you'll be alone.

I can't say that young people in general live an electronic life exclusively.
What I see watching our kids and their mates, they live that electronig part well, but at some point in their life just start doing sports and/or go outdoors.
They do bring all the electronics with them, just the same as you can read here at WB ("How to charge my phone when hiking?"), and they might have a different approach to nature than we old guys have. But hey, didn't we ourself have an approach different to the one our parents had, back then?

peakbagger
03-01-2018, 07:21
The popular areas of whites are a zoo of late. There was a peak in the late seventies and early eighties and then usage dropped quite a bit then gradually started climbing. Lots of new faces on the trails lately, unfortunately what has changed is they are not members of organized clubs so they tend to be somewhat more clueless. They also tend to be drawn to clicking off the "lists" so use is getting overly concentrated on the quickest way to get up mountain on their list. Far fewer backpackers except on the AT, head into the more remote backcountry areas away from the AT and usage is quite low to the point where Wilderness trails are growing in.

Sarcasm the elf
03-01-2018, 07:55
There was an interesting article posted here a couple of years ago looking at outdoor use. According to the figures presented in it, apparently participatiob in day use outdoor activities such as day hiking, climbing, and mountain biking are all increasing, however multiday activities such as camping and backpacking are showi declines in participation.

egilbe
03-01-2018, 07:59
I see alot of young people when I'm hiking. As peakbagger mentions, they seem clueless, but that just may be from my perspective of spending a lifetime out of doors. At one time, I was just as clueless.

I think Wilderness trails are growing in due to USFS refusal to maintain them. I very rarely see blowdowns removed. People won't walk on trails that aren't maintained. Bushwacking up a mountain is hard. Much easier following a trail.

It's predominantly young people that I see up here in New England on the AT. I'm not sure what the percentage by age starts and completes the trail, but I think the data is skewed to younger people.

evyck da fleet
03-01-2018, 08:07
I see an increase in older hikers. People who are trying to stay active as they age. There are still you people out there but they have more sporting options then those nearing retirement. They’ve grown up with electronics so they bring them with them just as your generation would have had they been as available.

Obviously the more popular hikes are going to be overcrowded and the ones newbies flock to first. The JMT is a prime example with the permits. Relatively new hikers will follow whatever recommendations they can find online.While some of the seasoned hikers on this site would have no problem incorporating High Sierra Route and other trails to natural hot springs. Like everything else there’s a learning curve. If most new hikers stay to the bucket list trails there’s a good chance your favorite local trail won’t change much.

TX Aggie
03-01-2018, 09:27
With the digital age now comes the AT Thru Hiker VLOGs, and they are piquing the interest of the 20s-30s crowd. I’m certain this will draw a lot more attention to the AT, the PCT to some extent, and maybe one or two other major trails, but I’m not convinced it will lead to an overall increase in the number of backpackers on the average Trail. I’m actually interested in how the completion rate will be affected in the coming years. Many of these VLOGGers make the AT look easier and almost stress free. I know there were several last year that took down their channels when they aborted their thru attempt so there are less failures for the kids to see, again adding to the perspective that it’s just a walk in the woods.
I’m also curious that of the younger ones that do end up completing a thru, if that was their entire intent, then will they stick with backpacking once they’re finished. It seems there are an awful lot of them that have never backpacked until 6-12 months before they start their attempt.

Dan Roper
03-01-2018, 10:10
There will always be a small percentage of youths (and people in general) that "march to the beat of a different drummer;" that "go Thoreau" and head to a Walden's Pond; that seek the wilderness. Always has been; always will be.

But does the generation that came of age in the 1950s, '60s, '70s, '80s and '90s form a bubble. These were the first that came of age in an era in which young people had free time; prior thereto, the young were needed or were marrying at 16 or 18 and already building a family. But the Baby Boom generation and the one that followed had some freedom to do things after high school or college and a certain percentage turned to the woods. That generation seems to represent an outsized percentage of people outdoors (and on Whiteblaze). But that generation is aging, the vanguard entering its 70s and 80s. They're still active but they won't be in ten or twenty years, in all likelihood. They are, in effect, a bubble.

What about the kids in their teens now? I know a small percentage will seek the outdoors, but will it be nearly as large as the Baby Boom Bubble? Or will the numbers decline, so that with the passing of the Boomers (and Generation X) there will be a decline in outdoorsmen and outdoorswomen.

I think so, but that's purely a hypothesis on my part. I'm interested in your thoughts and appreciate the replies thus far.

Sarcasm the elf
03-01-2018, 10:13
Mags wrote the following take on it, which includes a link to the article I mentioned earlier:

https://pmags.com/death-of-backpacking-a-response

peakbagger
03-01-2018, 10:15
The other big increase in the whites are trail runners. They are controversial as the state fish and game (responsible for rescues) requires every hiker to be equipped with appropriate gear and safety equipment which generally implies a backpack. The lists are located at this link http://hikesafe.com/index.php?page=full-gear-list. Few if any trail runners I encounter have any gear beyond a hydration pack that has space for possibly car keys and cell phone and a wallet at most. In some areas where the trail bed has been screed in and hardened with rocks, a small minority of runners are running on the outside of the scree walls on top of the alpine plants that were trying to reestablish the areas that the walls were intended to protect. Some of the trail runs like the Pemi loop are in the most remote areas (for the East) so the possibility of an unexpected overnight is possibility and nylon shorts and top with trail runners is not going to provide a lot of warmth when immobile. Luckily they are still a relative minority so I have not heard of any high profile rescues.

soilman
03-01-2018, 11:52
Back in the mid 70's when I did my first AT hike there seemed to be a large number of local shops that offered gear for backpacking and REI and EMS were more of a place to buy gear than attire. Interest in backpacking seemed to have increased. I attribute this to the increasing interest in the environment and popular culture. Remember the cover of the John Denver album "Rocky Mountain High" with John standing in the middle of a mountain stream wearing hiking boots? Hiking chic. Soon everyone wanted a puffy jacket and big leather hiking boots with red laces. It seemed that in the 80's trails were less crowded and the local shops were out of business. I thought backpacking was on the decline.


The ATC's numbers of completed hikes shows a doubling of reported completions every decade since 1970 so there has been a consistent increase of 2000 milers. It seems to me that there are an increasing number of novice backpackers who attempt a thru hike. For many this is the first time they have backpacked overnight. I have met people who had never set up their tent until they got to Springer. The AT has become a destination for many due to the increased awareness of the trail. Back in the 70's many people had never heard of the AT. There is a certain percentage that fall in love with the backpacking and go on to hike other trails. Others who were not successful go on to become section hikers. I wonder how many people who attempt a thru hike, successful or not return to the woods?


Increasing numbers can be good and bad. It can bring increased pressure on resources but can also lead to more people stepping up and volunteering to maintain the trails. A big concern I have is the graying of the trail clubs. It seems that most of the folks I have encountered doing trail maintenance are in their golden years.

Mags
03-01-2018, 14:21
I update this article every year or so because everytime the article is linked, I get told the stats are old, or NPS stats are suspect, anecdotes (!) say otherwise, etc. etc. etc. .. :) But the 2016 stats from various sources, published in 2017 and linked in my article, show the same trends consistent over the years:


* Be it raw numbers or as a percentage of a population, overall backcountry use is indeed going down esp from the peak of the 1970s or even the 1980s.

* Yes, thru-hiking numbers are up, but that is a drop in the statistical bucket. Also, thru-hiking is much different from backpacking (https://pmags.com/celebrating-the-wild-places). The allure is often the journey itself or the cultural aspects esp among the more well-known trails. How many thru-hikers backpack beyond thru-hikes? How many do the AT or PCT, call it good, and don't pick up a pack all that often after?

* Day use activities are increasing. More variety of activities to choose from (day hiking, trail running, mountain biking, etc), they are more accessible, and the activities seem to fit in better with the busy lifestyle we now have for various reasons.

(And, yes, I did copy and paste this text above into my article just now. ;) )

Dogwood
03-01-2018, 15:47
As long as culture, such as in the modern U.S., is built on the belief man is separate from and above the environment - the Natural world - disconnected from it, there will be consequences such as might be true in Mag's article. Much of this belief in the U.S. is rooted in mis understood religious practices.

It's a sad plight for Nature when the profound respectful sustainable connectivity to it that previously existed is intentionally destroyed to replace it to a profound disrespectful self serving unsustainable connection to money.

Starchild
03-01-2018, 15:59
In the Hudson Valley of NY numbers are way up, so are the white mountains of NH, So much so that it makes the news several times, either trail overuse issues, maintance projects to accommodate the hiker number of hikers, parking lot expansion, illegal parking due to overflowing lots, bus shuttles from other lots, new parkign lot and spur trail construction.

I would say the numbers of hikers are about 10x or more then what they were 20 years ago.

And they are also the younger generation. Social media and Meetup in particular has really connected with them and pulled them out to the woods in large numbers.

peakbagger
03-01-2018, 16:22
When I am out bushwhacking in the whites I encounter old campsites way off from any major trails usually near a stream, waterfall or other attraction . They usually consist of an old fire ring some flat spots made by moving rocks and more often than not old beer cans from the seventies/early eighties. Around popular areas there may be 100s of old campsites radiating out into the woods. They haven't been used for years but the soil was compacted and are slowly growing in or covered with blowdowns but the fire rings and occasional hacked trees remain. Most of these areas were usually a half a day to day in from a trailhead. In general the evidence in the field is that there was whole lot more overnight backcountry usage in the past. I think a lot of the LNT principles were developed as result of that era as the woods were a mess. The Whites tried a permit system in at least one local wilderness area for few years at the tail end of the boom but the drop in usage in the mid eighties was fairly steep and they dropped them. I heard the comment that "yuppies didn't hike". I know of many folks who would establish semi permanent seasonal campsites, they would return weekend after weekend to head out in the woods to get stoned and party. Frequently they left their tents and other gear at the end of the season and occasionally we encounter it.

I was in high school for the tail end of the boom and basic backpacking gear could be bought in most department stores, I picked up a primus stove and lantern set at a WT Grant store when it was closing down and nylon Camel brand tents were sold at many stores. There were fewer outdoor retailers, the choice was basic catalog like campmor or REI. We used to make occasional trips to EMS in North Conway for the high end stuff and eventually there was store in my town. Beans had some backpacking gear but it was pricey and in general they really were not the supplier of choice for most backpackers. Frostline kits were popular, I know many folks who borrowed moms sewing machine and sewed their own.

Wyoming
03-01-2018, 16:39
I see alot of young people when I'm hiking. As peakbagger mentions, they seem clueless, but that just may be from my perspective of spending a lifetime out of doors. At one time, I was just as clueless.

I think Wilderness trails are growing in due to USFS refusal to maintain them. I very rarely see blowdowns removed. People won't walk on trails that aren't maintained. Bushwacking up a mountain is hard. Much easier following a trail.

It's predominantly young people that I see up here in New England on the AT. I'm not sure what the percentage by age starts and completes the trail, but I think the data is skewed to younger people.


Regarding the USFS (as one of their trail maintainers here in AZ) I can say that it is NOT a refusal. It is a huge lack of funds. The USFS over the last 20 years and especially the last 10 years is shifting into becoming a wildland fire fighting organization primarily. Out here in the west about 50% of the personnel have been moved to firefighting and there is literally almost no money for trail maintenance at all. Where I live about 80-90% of trail maintenance is performed by volunteers with minimal permanent employee oversight.

Trail maintenance is also concentrated on the trails which get the heaviest use - makes sense. There are lots of trails in AZ which are very seldom traveled which have seen no maintenance for 20+ years and there is no likelihood they will see any in the future. You want deep by yourself hiking we got it.

The same issue is happening to the National Park system. I am also a volunteer for trail work in the Grand Canyon. Last year they had the budget for trail work almost completely gutted. They only have resources for paying for trail work on the 3 main trails and not enough volunteers even to take care of all the toilet facilities below the rim. If this goes on for a few more years there are going to be big issues. Just fyi there are also trails in the Grand Canyon which have not had any trail maintenance in 15-20 years.

I saw some figures a few years ago that the frequency of backcounty backpacking is far below what it was in the mid-70's. It may have come up some but I really think the AT/PCT thru hiker publicity thing is making folks think it has grown a lot when in reality it has not. They are just mostly all at the same places. I do remember 12-14 years ago there was a lot of talk here on WB about the huge surge of AT hikers. Now we also talk about the 3500 starting the PCT every year. Not sure this is a bad thing overall. As long as you avoid the shelters and the towns there is little in the way of problems.

The age demographic is skewed towards the young (under 25) and the old (over 50) with few in between. A lot more young than old of course. As to percentages of age groups who finish - I have no idea.

BillyGr
03-01-2018, 16:49
In the Hudson Valley of NY numbers are way up, so are the white mountains of NH, So much so that it makes the news several times, either trail overuse issues, maintance projects to accommodate the hiker number of hikers, parking lot expansion, illegal parking due to overflowing lots, bus shuttles from other lots, new parkign lot and spur trail construction.

I would say the numbers of hikers are about 10x or more then what they were 20 years ago.

And they are also the younger generation. Social media and Meetup in particular has really connected with them and pulled them out to the woods in large numbers.

Perhaps those online methods you mention have something to do with the overloaded parking areas in some places?

Not just that there are more hikers overall, but that if people are deciding to go to some place on one of those sites they might be more likely to all drive to the site to meet, where in the past groups (where they more likely knew each other beforehand) would have met at an offsite location (say, someone's house) and then driven to the trail in one or two vehicles?

So now you have maybe 2x the number of hikers but 3 or 4x the number of vehicles needing to be parked at a trailhead?

Mags
03-01-2018, 17:37
N.M.

I had this same discussion in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 and now 2018.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Dan Roper
03-01-2018, 18:42
I've probably participated in the discussion in the past, but I appreciate you and everybody for participating again.

It's an interesting societal shift, and similar things are taking place (for a variety of reasons) with hunting and even farming. Our connections to the land are decreasing.

What I've taken from this thus far is the possibility that thru-hiking the AT numbers are way up while most outdoor use seems to be declining.

Rising obesity rates may also contribute. A few weeks ago, I found a "Yellowstone in Winter" documentary filmed in the early '80s on YouTube. The clothing, hair and car styles seemed archaic (how has so much time passed so quickly), but what I found really startling was that everyone in the documentary - scores of visitors and workers - were skinny.

Lone Wolf
03-01-2018, 19:39
increasin'. and not becuz folks are really into being outdoors. lotsa youtube AT party vids appeal to 20 somethings

rickb
03-01-2018, 19:52
I am thinking that a great many life-time leasure activities take their root when we are young.

Whether it be sailing, golfing, horseback riding, backpacking or whatever — if you are not exposed to them when you ar a teen (or before) you may well have missed the boat.

Many older hikers were exposed to backpacking through scouts (as an aside those interested could do a search for a thread for “What rank as a Scout” on Whiteblaze, the percentage of Eagle is rather astounding).

Now days few kids are drawn to that organization for all sorts of reasons — which hardly matter.

That alone means far fewer backpackers, I think.

Starchild
03-01-2018, 20:14
Perhaps those online methods you mention have something to do with the overloaded parking areas in some places?

Not just that there are more hikers overall, but that if people are deciding to go to some place on one of those sites they might be more likely to all drive to the site to meet, where in the past groups (where they more likely knew each other beforehand) would have met at an offsite location (say, someone's house) and then driven to the trail in one or two vehicles?

So now you have maybe 2x the number of hikers but 3 or 4x the number of vehicles needing to be parked at a trailhead?

I find that they do carpool often, often using social media to set it up and request it. It's just more numbers. In the Catskills of NY there is a limit of groups of no more then 20. Hitting this number was very rare even for the most popular hiking clubs, and it was never a issue and not enforced, and not even known by many of these clubs hike leaders as it was so rarely a issue. Meetup groups usually will get those 20 pretty fast and have a long wait list after the 20 slots fill up.

I would say that social media has increased car pooling over the old hiking clubs method where the leader coordinated everything, and people can directly connect with other members.

Sarcasm the elf
03-01-2018, 20:18
Many older hikers were exposed to backpacking through scouts (as an aside those interested could do a search for a thread for “What rank as a Scout” on Whiteblaze, the percentage of Eagle is rather astounding).

Now days few kids are drawn to that organization for all sorts of reasons — which hardly matter.

That alone means far fewer backpackers, I think.

This one?
https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/106643-Who-was-in-Boy-Scouts-Is-an-Eagle-Scout

4eyedbuzzard
03-01-2018, 20:38
Just some thoughts: Assume (broadly) that the most common age to participate in hiking/backpacking is after high school and before having children, careers, etc., due to available time off, financial considerations (like mortgages and child rearing expenses), etc. No, this doesn't account for some lifelong hard-core hikers, but they are the exception, not the rule.

The raw number of 18 to 30 year olds grew rapidly starting in roughly the mid 1960's (due to the baby-boom) and peaked in the early 80's. This era roughly corresponds to the big surge in hiking/backpacking in general in the 80's and 90's . Young people were "getting back to nature", Dick Kelty modernized the backpack, mass produced nylon gear became affordable, and Ed Garvey and Colin Fletcher and others brought their stories of hiking to the masses. It also coincides with BSA's peak membership in 1972. There was both more interest and a bigger "target audience" to draw upon. But as time went on, the actual raw numbers of 18 to 30 year olds dropped, the population became more urbanized, real wages stagnated, we boomers grew older, had less time, etc, etc. Conversely, thru-hiking became romanticized as an epic life adventure, and grew as a sub-set of the now declining more general outdoor movement. But many thru-hikers today haven't grown up with hiking in their blood so to speak. To many it's a very new experience from their formative upbringing. It's become more an epic adventure and/or rite of passage of sorts. Interestingly, many will never set foot on a long trail again.

Meanwhile, real wages have stagnated, time-off has decreased, and life expenses have increased for most American workers over the past decades, and hiking gear (granted while lighter and more comfortable) got a lot pricier. The general pace of life accelerated - one and done, done in a day, etc. So general hiking/backpacking trends down even as thru-hiking trends up. It's an interesting phenomena.

rickb
03-01-2018, 20:50
This one?
https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/106643-Who-was-in-Boy-Scouts-Is-an-Eagle-Scout

I was thinking of this one:

https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/6920-What-rank-as-a-Scout?highlight=What+rank+as+a+Scout

Dogwood
03-01-2018, 21:50
There are segments of outdoor use on the rise paddling, power boating, some snow sports, and even hiking. It's subsets of these categories that can buck those trends.
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20151207006203/en/Global-Outdoor-Backpacks-Market-2015-2019---Rising

Knee Jerk
03-04-2018, 16:27
I am pretty sure that hiking is way up around these parts because the trail-side trash is increasing.

Another Kevin
03-04-2018, 18:20
Personal impression: (The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'!)

It's a weird mix. I find that listed peaks (Catskill 3500, Adirondack 46'ers, Northeast 111), for instance, are sometimes horribly crowded. I once had trouble finding parking for one trailhead to a Catskill 3500'er in the middle of winter, with a five-foot snowpack. On the other hand, I've done approaches from the 'wrong' side of listed peaks and ran into people only at the summits. (Hi, Elf! You know what I'm talking about!) And on the Northville-Placid Trail, I might run into one other party on a typical day, and have a shelter all to myself. (I'd still tent nearby. I dislike mice.) Or I might even see nobody at all - I've had that happen a few times, even in high summer.

I'm seeing more Meetup groups that have nobody along with any experience and practice horrible trail etiquette. (I've been shouldered aside by one of them trying to bag the Winter Four in the Catskills in a single day because that would be "so badass!") I really do get the idea that their bad manners and lack of LNT are out of ignorance - we have whole cohorts of people coming in with nobody to show them the way to behave.

I'm also seeing more and more busloads of Korean day-trippers. They also have pretty questionable trail etiquette - sitting down to cook lunch in the middle of a narrow trail, that sort of thing, but they're always so friendly, smiling and waving and greeting as you try to step around them, that it's hard to stay annoyed.

The Adirondack style of 'hike in to a lean-to, make a base camp, climb/hunt/fish/explore from there' seems very much alive. The kind of long-distance hiking that this site favors was never all that popular in the 'Daks and Cats. It's actually fairly recent that the long-distance style around here wouldn't involve a ton of roadwalking. (There are now pretty good off-road connections for a few longer trails. The Long Path, except for the Orange County Problem and the Northern Excursion, is shaping up to be a gem.)

There are a lot more trail runners. Some of them get seriously annoyed at hikers who can't get out of the way fast enough.

I think Paul is right that the mix more heavily favours 'done in a day' activities. Since I visit a lot of places that are more than a half-day walk from the trailhead, I can still walk away from them. There also seem to be a fair number more people out there who are all about badassery. That seems relatively new.

I don't hike the major long-distance trails in high season, so as to avoid the thru-hiker scene that I've heard so much about. Most of what I've heard doesn't appeal.

So on the whole, I'm not sure it's more or less, but it's different.

Knee Jerk
03-04-2018, 18:30
...I'm seeing more Meetup groups that have nobody along with any experience and practice horrible trail etiquette...

On Monday, I got in a 7-mile hike from the Doris Duke trailhead, up to the Highlands Trail and then down the AT to Fitzgerald Falls and up again on to the Bearfort Ridge and on to Route 17A. Did not see anybody the entire time until I was about 50 yards from the finish when five young guys carry three six packs of beer came walking into the woods. Now who the hell carries bottles of beer into the woods?

Another Kevin
03-04-2018, 18:47
On Monday, I got in a 7-mile hike from the Doris Duke trailhead, up to the Highlands Trail and then down the AT to Fitzgerald Falls and up again on to the Bearfort Ridge and on to Route 17A. Did not see anybody the entire time until I was about 50 yards from the finish when five young guys carry three six packs of beer came walking into the woods. Now who the hell carries bottles of beer into the woods?
Lots of people, from the number that I haul out!

I've even had a group of drunk high-school boys lob a few empties in my direction as I was doing trail cleanup in a local nature preserve that's a favorite haunt of kids looking to get into trouble. "Look at the garbage man, haw haw," they jeered.

"If you're too much of a weakling to carry out your own trash, you can just leave it up there and I'll get it. No need to throw it down to me," I replied.

Slo-go'en
03-04-2018, 22:42
Peak bagging in NH has definitely gone crazy. Hardly a day goes by without someone climbing up a 4000 footer, regardless of weather. The "fastest way to the summit" trail heads are always overflowing out onto the highway on the weekends. This fall I climbed Mount Isolation after labor day on a Wednesday and there were half a dozen people up there and a dog.

I did a lot of day hikes around the Whites this summer and there wasn't a trail which didn't have some other people on it. But hey, glad others are enjoying the trail too.

LittleRock
03-05-2018, 11:11
Even on the AT, a lot of the popularity depends on where/when you are hiking. I remember one section hike I did in the fall a few years ago from US 19E in TN north through Grayson Highlands in VA.

The first 5 days were weekdays, and the trail was nearly empty. I saw maybe 2 hikers/day, spent 2 nights alone in shelters. Even Damascus was pretty quiet the night I stayed there.

Then I hit Thomas Knob Shelter on Friday night. Shelter full, probably 2 dozen tents set up in the surrounding area. The trail going through Grayson Highlands the next morning was a zoo. I swear I never made it 100 yards without passing someone (or more likely, a whole group) the whole way down to the parking lot at Massie Gap.

handlebar
03-05-2018, 18:48
I think Wilderness trails are growing in due to USFS refusal to maintain them. I very rarely see blowdowns removed. People won't walk on trails that aren't maintained. Bushwacking up a mountain is hard. Much easier following a trail.

It isn't that the USFS "refuses" to maintain trails; it's that their budget has been cut to the point where they no longer have the (wo)manpower to do the maintenance. That is why volunteer trail workers are so important. The vast majority of trail work on the AT, for example, is by volunteers. In addition, fire suppression is taking a very large part of the USFS budget.

FreeGoldRush
03-05-2018, 19:56
It isn't that the USFS "refuses" to maintain trails; it's that their budget has been cut to the point where they no longer have the (wo)manpower to do the maintenance. That is why volunteer trail workers are so important. The vast majority of trail work on the AT, for example, is by volunteers. In addition, fire suppression is taking a very large part of the USFS budget.
An extremely small part of their budget is recreation. To assume that their recent budget cut had to negatively impact recreation is unfounded in my opinion. Here is their their budget, but be aware that this report was written by the forest service and it presents things entirely from their own point of view and not that of the tax payers who fund them.

https://www.fs.fed.us/sites/default/files/fy-2017-fs-budget-overview.pdf

Dogwood
03-05-2018, 20:03
Wildfire suppression is around 40% of the USFS budget. Appropriations to infrastructure such as road building and maintenance rank significantly in the budget as well.

Darn well know the USFS under the Dept of Agriculture, National Park Service under Dept of the Interior, and EPA budgets have been deeply cut by the current power that is.

FreeGoldRush
03-05-2018, 20:23
[QUOTE=Dogwood;2197691Darn well know the USFS under the Dept of Agriculture, National Park Service under Dept of the Interior, and EPA budgets have been deeply cut by the current power that is.[/QUOTE]
USFS budget in 2017 (most recent year) is actually higher than it was in 2015.