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Gambit McCrae
03-19-2018, 12:35
Ran into this family on youtube and personally I don't really see a HUGE deal with it, however they are really getting mixed feelings from other viewers. Really my only reservation is their youngest is 2 years old and to start in early March with him is really my only concern. I know the little boy didn't ask to thru hike, and probably doesn't even comprehend the scope of what the family is doing. They have been on the trail since about march 7th and are doing about 8 miles a day.

This family reminds me of Homer and his family of 4 thru hiking way back when...They seemed to enjoy it...


https://youtu.be/QDEy3tVwl8w?list=PL8jVL_i9OvEF_GWO4E1AneMON_IFLqci u

Slo-go'en
03-19-2018, 14:13
Talk about clueless. Their not going to last much longer. It only gets harder. BTW, they posted a new Vlog today.

Did they bring a drone along too?

Last Call
03-19-2018, 14:32
First "stunt" hike of the year....and they are skipping the Approach Trail....*sigh*

MuddyWaters
03-19-2018, 14:33
Other families have thru hiked. Including with babies.

Why would anybody care what someone else is doing?

The odds of any individual making it are only 30%.
When you multiply that by several people.... Connected together.... The odds of the group making it together completely are extremely low. Doesnt matter if they are family or not.

Which is expressly why individuals should hike don't look for people to hike with you cuz you scared to be alone. Those companions are a liability for a strong hiker

Coffee
03-19-2018, 14:35
The video doesn't inspire much hope but people do learn along the way and maybe they will too. One thing's for certain ... those kids will be spinning tales about this adventure when they are old.

T.S.Kobzol
03-19-2018, 14:47
Yeah. I have an issue with the baby, the rest of the crew is sort of ok. But the baby - is stuck in a baby carrier for 10 miles per day, not moving, not able to generate heat via movement and blood circulation - this, for me, is at the edge of neglect and abuse. The previous video of showing his face wind freeze burnt was really upsetting to me.

Gambit McCrae
03-19-2018, 14:55
Did they bring a drone along too?
Yes they did, along with a laptop, camera and whatever other electronic equipment they are using to vlog.




1-Why would anybody care what someone else is doing?

2-Which is expressly why individuals should hike don't look for people to hike with you cuz you scared to be alone. Those companions are a liability for a strong hiker


1-Almost every thread on WB is commented on because people care what others are doing. That is what fuels discussion. :-?

2-This is a good point as I almost always search out for hiking buddies to go with me, and only 2 of those buddies can I say were independently not a liability. All the others have ended a hike early that I have invited them on. (Not all the hikes they went on, but at least 1 hike somewhere along the line) So this statement will probably encourage me to go out on more trips by myself even though I enjoy the company of a friend, I am not scared to be alone, just bored.

- The dads voice gets on my nerves, sounds like a valley girl talking thru her nose. Just had to rant on that for a moment.

Bronk
03-19-2018, 14:56
https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/841-The-Family-from-the-North

Excerpt from that thread:

"My Family was the Family from the North... my trail name was Shortcut. I hiked with my whole family mom dad baby sister two step brothers and step sister. I was only eight then so all the details are a little fuzzy but at the time I hated it however looking back now at 18 years of age I am proud to have hiked the AT thru. I am really wanting to get information on our family and the hike now that my parents are split we dont talk about it. If anyone has documents or articles about our family hike that would be great. And in respone to some of the upove comments us kids didnt have a say, we all hated it. We where hungry all day and during the winter we froze, the first cold night by boots actually froze and the next morning I had to wear them until they thawed. Their where times that felt like hell but like i said im glad that I have had that experience. And at some point would love to do some section hiking."

Leo L.
03-19-2018, 15:04
I've carried my elder daughter quite a lot when her being 1-4yrs. But while it was extremely good exercise for me and she enjoyed it immensely, it was only daytrips and I always left a good margin from exhaustion, so I had always part of my Attention and good mood free for to take good care about her.
Not in my wildest phantasies I could imagine to do the very same, plus all the heavy stuff for me and her, for a really long hike.
But hey, its their own hike, and the baby will be fine I'm pretty sure, while the others might hit their wall (and the SPOT button) sometimes, maybe.

MuddyWaters
03-19-2018, 15:11
2-This is a good point as I almost always search out for hiking buddies to go with me, and only 2 of those buddies can I say were independently not a liability. All the others have ended a hike early that I have invited them on. (Not all the hikes they went on, but at least 1 hike somewhere along the line) So this statement will probably encourage me to go out on more trips by myself even though I enjoy the company of a friend, I am not scared to be alone, just bored.

.

Reminds me of what a buddy of mine told me when I was getting into diving. He was a very experienced diver and a Dive Master.

He laughed at the buddy system. And said that's just for new newbies. When you start really diving, a buddy is just one more thing that can kill you. The best divers dive alone. They aren't going to die because someone else made a mistake.

illabelle
03-19-2018, 15:18
This story sorta makes a person think about the Trail of Tears, and all they had to haul, and all they had to endure, and those that didn't make it...

JC13
03-19-2018, 16:35
I think their hike and the feedback is a microcosm of society today.

Some people enjoy doing hard things, some people think life should be easy and sunshine and rainbows.

FrogLevel
03-19-2018, 16:37
I think its a bad idea and probably not much fun but I don't think its abuse.

It would be much more pleasant if they'd have started in April.

rocketsocks
03-19-2018, 16:43
With regard to the pole, it’s not the way would do...but does anyone of you care what I would do? Meh

imscotty
03-19-2018, 17:00
Can't find the baby's rain pants in a cold rain on day one... yeh, this is not going to go well.

I think the grandparents sitting at home watching this must be having a bird!

I don't knock them for giving this a try and having some fun, but if they cannot keep those kids safe I hope they are smart enough to pull the plug on this adventure.

lonehiker
03-19-2018, 17:01
The video doesn't inspire much hope but people do learn along the way and maybe they will too. One thing's for certain ... those kids will be spinning tales about this adventure when they are old.

The fact that they've made it as far as they have is pretty impressive in my eyes. I especially appreciate the fact that, it appears, they didn't need to be "spoon-fed" every detail about the trail...

Venchka
03-19-2018, 17:43
Are they hiking to raise awareness?
Do they have support service critters?
Wayne

sketcher709
03-19-2018, 17:55
Does anyone have a link to this family's youtube video?

Mugthumper
03-19-2018, 17:59
Nope, not amused. I've binge watched quite a few hiker youtube videos over the years when I got bored and couldn't be on the trail, but 3 minutes in and I found this unwatchable.

I hope everyone enjoys themselves, but I doubt that will be the case. I can't even imagine having a 2 year old out there. I have carried my soon to be 3 year old daughter on my back in the osprey poco for hundreds of miles and she absolutely loves it...until she doesn't. I'm always conscious of the temperature when we hike late fall through early spring. Kids riding like that aren't generating the body heat like anyone else who is up and moving, they can't even move their legs. That 2 year old is going to be freezing when the temp dips and the wind starting blowing. And they were a couple miles in and can't even find the kids rain pants?!?!

My 5 and 7 year old boys love hiking also, but I highly doubt he would want to do it day in and day out at this age. They usually hit their limit at 6-8 miles. I couldn't even imagine trying to feed teenagers after hiking all day. I feel like I feed my 2 boys nonstop and all they talk about is food. Add hiking to that and they would chew off their own limbs. But who knows everyone is different.

It is going to be a hygiene nightmare out there for the youngest kids. I see gastrointestinal illness in everybody's future.

....or maybe it was just his voice that I can't handle.

Who knows...best of luck to them but these people and videos just scream LOOK AT ME!!!

Gambit McCrae
03-19-2018, 18:01
Does anyone have a link to this family's youtube video?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT2WgHiawhWgbahB0CNENkg

rocketsocks
03-19-2018, 18:05
​Williemakeit@omg

Richard Gallop
03-19-2018, 21:20
I think its a bad idea and probably not much fun but I don't think its abuse.

It would be much more pleasant if they'd have started in April.

To be clear, in the latest video the father did flick the 2 year old in the mouth (hard enough to break skin) because the toddler wouldn't stop crying. That's abuse. They had the toddlers pant legs tied off to try and keep the child's feet warm causing the pants to fill with moisture while walking all morning in the rain. A 2 year old can't express pain or exhaustion properly and hypothermic reaction just looks like a sleepy baby to these people. Then, when the trail is too much for the kid to handle, crying leads to being punished in a painful way. That's endangerment. I ever see someone treat a 2 year old child the way these people are and I'm going to loose my cool real quick.

Coffee
03-19-2018, 21:23
To be clear, in the latest video the father did flick the 2 year old in the mouth (hard enough to break skin) because the toddler wouldn't stop crying. That's abuse.
Sure is abuse ... that's terrible. I didn't see that part.

Elaikases
03-19-2018, 21:46
To be clear, in the latest video the father did flick the 2 year old in the mouth (hard enough to break skin) because the toddler wouldn't stop crying. That's abuse. They had the toddlers pant legs tied off to try and keep the child's feet warm causing the pants to fill with moisture while walking all morning in the rain. A 2 year old can't express pain or exhaustion properly and hypothermic reaction just looks like a sleepy baby to these people. Then, when the trail is too much for the kid to handle, crying leads to being punished in a painful way. That's endangerment. I ever see someone treat a 2 year old child the way these people are and I'm going to loose my cool real quick.

That is terrible.

imscotty
03-19-2018, 21:56
It is going to be a hygiene nightmare out there for the youngest kids. I see gastrointestinal illness in everybody's future.

Very prescient, Day 5 report.... three kids are throwing up.

Slo-go'en
03-19-2018, 22:16
When the kid won't stop crying, you'd think you'd stop and find out why. There is a warning on the hand warmer packages saying not to use with infants or others who can't feel heat or express discomfort. And he had one sealed in each extremity.

The weather is what will do them in. Looks like it could be a stormy start this spring.

Zed
03-19-2018, 22:21
I wonder about the 2 year old's development. He should be developing motor skills. How much of that is he getting riding in a carrier all day. Maybe they are getting him out to run and play and we just aren't seeing it. Mom complains about being cold while she is hiking. That kid is just riding along, unable to generate any extra heat. In some of the shots he looks completely spaced out. Maybe bored or tired, but maybe early stages of hypothermia?

I don't worry much about the older kids. They'll survive and either they will appreciate this experience or not. They can keep on hiking or bow up and refuse. That toddler has exactly zero options.

Mugthumper
03-19-2018, 23:01
Very prescient, Day 5 report.... three kids are throwing up.

5 days is even faster than I would have even guessed it would happen, but it was inevitable. Wait until one of the parents get sick, maybe it'll be a reality check.

I've watched the first few minutes of the first video and some of the one where guy flicked his son in the mouth after seeing it mentioned comments. I really hesitate to say hiking with a 2 year old is abuse, because I don't think that they intentionally want to harm their kids in any way. Except for the fact that it sounds like they are already losing their temper and getting frustrated and then taking out their frustrations on a 2 year old instead of listening to the signs of a child's distress. What this is is 2 adults being selfish instead of caring for the needs of their youngest child.

I don't know what it is about people like this that rubs me so wrong, I can't describe it.

Common sense. Some people just don't have it.

Mugthumper
03-19-2018, 23:42
I finished watching their most recent video. It just blows my mind that this guy would post a video for the world to see admitting to busting his 2 year old in the mouth for crying about being cold. This poor kid has only one way to tell you that something is wrong. It sounds like they know that the kid is suffering and just keep on keepin on with their own selfish agenda. Guy needs to take a long hard look in the mirror. The mother too for that matter.

I feel like I'm being judgy, so I'm sure I am, but they are obviously attention seekers who put themselves out there for it. And for some, any attention they receive is better than no attention, even if its negative.

Feral Bill
03-20-2018, 01:34
I feel like I'm being judgy, so I'm sure I am... Sometimes being judgy is called for. This is one of those times.

Zed
03-20-2018, 02:00
for some, any attention they receive is better than no attention, even if its negative.

I watched some of their other videos. (There are almost 600 to choose from.) They definitely seem like attention seekers, but they just aren't that interesting. I can't figure out who their target audience might be, and they only have 9000 subscribers so it doesn't seem like they know either. They have added about 1200 subs in the last 30 days so it looks like they are getting a bump for the trail vids. All of it seems like an extended audition for some reality show.

Their gimmick has worked though. I've subscribed just to watch the slow motion train wreck. Who knows, maybe I'm too cynical and they'll make it.

El JP
03-20-2018, 02:13
I watched some of their other videos. (There are almost 600 to choose from.) They definitely seem like attention seekers, but they just aren't that interesting. I can't figure out who their target audience might be, and they only have 9000 subscribers so it doesn't seem like they know either. They have added about 1200 subs in the last 30 days so it looks like they are getting a bump for the trail vids. All of it seems like an extended audition for some reality show.

Their gimmick has worked though. I've subscribed just to watch the slow motion train wreck. Who knows, maybe I'm too cynical and they'll make it.
I also subscribed out of sheer curiosity but you are right, it does seem like a setup for a reality show.

rocketsocks
03-20-2018, 02:16
I finished watching their most recent video. It just blows my mind that this guy would post a video for the world to see admitting to busting his 2 year old in the mouth for crying about being cold. This poor kid has only one way to tell you that something is wrong. It sounds like they know that the kid is suffering and just keep on keepin on with their own selfish agenda. Guy needs to take a long hard look in the mirror. The mother too for that matter.

I feel like I'm being judgy, so I'm sure I am, but they are obviously attention seekers who put themselves out there for it. And for some, any attention they receive is better than no attention, even if its negative.i wasn’t going to be over judgey till I read this...total d-bag.

Zed
03-20-2018, 04:04
They hiked the Wonderland Trail in 2015 with 5 kids and 4 months pregnant. I can't see why they seem so clueless now. I don't think they are prepared for an early start on the AT, and the toddler adds another challenge, but it feels there's something else going on that I can't figure out.

Gambit McCrae
03-20-2018, 08:10
Because it has been mentioned by others, here is the point in which the dad explains popping the 2 year old in the lip, hard enough to make it bleed. You can scroll to Minute 6:45 where it starts

As well, aren't drones banned on the AT lands and National Parks?


https://youtu.be/s7ymIT29i7g?t=6m45s

Pastor Bryon
03-20-2018, 08:35
Made it through one and a half videos, couldn't watch any more. Yes, the lip flicking and foot treatment of the toddler bothers me, but few of the other kids seem that jazzed to be there either. Cold, rainy/snowy weather doesn't help, but no way to avoid that; you have to be prepared for that no matter when you start, either at the start of the trail or the end (or both!).

Lots of other judgy things in my head, similar to what has already been posted. Just my 2c, but looks more like a determined dad who is going to push through anything, regardless of the circumstances or risk...and that worries me. I hope they've also budgeted for a medivac.

sketcher709
03-20-2018, 08:53
The lip flicking incident is troubling not so much because he made the kid bleed but because there were any number of reasons that toddler could have been screaming non stop (discomfort from the heating packs, circulation issues from being in the pack, cold, bored, tired....) and to me that puts it in the category of abuse. They are endangering this kid by dragging him on a stormy spring hike.

Then, when I think about the people who will bitch endlessly because I choose to hike with my well behaved dog, then think that these people are hiking with 6 kids, some of whom are not old enough to use their inside voices and the fact that they are also apparently traveling with a drone really frosts me. I put off a March 7 start due to weather and here I sit, reading about this family I think has made me really start to reevaluate a new strategy with regards to how hard I work to avoid any part of the bubble. And whether I need to carry any anti-drone tools. ;)

Zed
03-20-2018, 08:53
They hiked the Wonderland Trail in 2015 with 5 kids and 4 months pregnant. I can't see why they seem so clueless now. I don't think they are prepared for an early start on the AT, and the toddler adds another challenge, but it feels there's something else going on that I can't figure out.Editing... They actually hiked the trail in 2009 with 4 kids and pregnant with #5 according to an old blog.

Slo-go'en
03-20-2018, 10:57
Editing... They actually hiked the trail in 2009 with 4 kids and pregnant with #5 according to an old blog.

Apparently they don't believe in birth control, so she'll probably be pregnant with #7 soon.

Anyway, if they expect to get very far they will have to send the two youngest to foster care or go home for a while and wait for the weather to improve.

rocketsocks
03-20-2018, 11:12
The lip flicking incident is troubling not so much because he made the kid bleed but because there were any number of reasons that toddler could have been screaming non stop (discomfort from the heating packs, circulation issues from being in the pack, cold, bored, tired....) and to me that puts it in the category of abuse. They are endangering this kid by dragging him on a stormy spring hike.

Then, when I think about the people who will bitch endlessly because I choose to hike with my well behaved dog, then think that these people are hiking with 6 kids, some of whom are not old enough to use their inside voices and the fact that they are also apparently traveling with a drone really frosts me. I put off a March 7 start due to weather and here I sit, reading about this family I think has made me really start to reevaluate a new strategy with regards to how hard I work to avoid any part of the bubble. And whether I need to carry any anti-drone tools. ;)just like with dogs, it’s not the drones fault...pilot error.

Puddlefish
03-20-2018, 11:27
Eh, they'll make it as far as they make it. They'll find a pace that works for them. No different from anyone else who starts a hike.

MacBrave
03-20-2018, 14:13
Saw a picture of this family in a recent Trail Journals entry. Apparently this was taken on 3/19 at Mollies Ridge Shelter: http://www.trailjournals.com/journal/photos/21985/1151113

Gambit McCrae
03-20-2018, 14:20
Saw a picture of this family in a recent Trail Journals entry. Apparently this was taken on 3/19 at Mollies Ridge Shelter: http://www.trailjournals.com/journal/photos/21985/1151113

Well that's not good. They were at Mollies Ridge at some point yesterday MM 177. That means they are probably around 2-3 days (At their pace) from Newfound gap (Clingmans Dome Road is closed) and with a good possibility of up to 15" of snow to fall prior to Thursday morning. Not good, hopefully they are closer to Newfound Gap then that.

Weather for Spence Field:
Tonight: Areas of fog and showers and thunderstorms before 8pm, then patchy fog and rain and snow showers. Cloudy, with a low around 20. West northwest wind 15 to 24 mph, with gusts as high as 39 mph. Chance of precipitation is 80%. New snow accumulation of 3 to 5 inches possible.

Wednesday: Snow showers. Cloudy, with a high near 22. West northwest wind around 25 mph, with gusts as high as 41 mph. Chance of precipitation is 80%. New snow accumulation of 3 to 7 inches possible.

Wednesday Night: Snow showers likely. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 19. Northwest wind 18 to 25 mph, with gusts as high as 41 mph. Chance of precipitation is 60%. New snow accumulation of 1 to 3 inches possible.

Thursday: A chance of snow showers before 10am. Sunny, with a high near 35. North northwest wind 15 to 20 mph, with gusts as high as 32 mph. Chance of precipitation is 30%.

As well Found their Instagram page, they started March 1st. Which makes sense with an avg of 8.8 miles a day.

"Kami and Ben Crawford Family of 8, thru hiking the Appalachian Trail starting March 1, 2018 "

Venchka
03-20-2018, 14:21
Yikes. They fill up a shelter. Folks who arrive after them will not be pleased.
Wayne

MuddyWaters
03-20-2018, 14:31
Yikes. They fill up a shelter. Folks who arrive after them will not be pleased.
Wayne

Some will just have to learn how to actually use those tents they are carryin.

I imagine 40 or 50 people a day or pretty much not pleased everyday about about this time in ga. Just part of it.

Last Call
03-20-2018, 16:34
I can't imagine dealing with the diapees.....

Venchka
03-20-2018, 16:46
A couple and an infant just a few months old thru hiked last year or the year before. They seemed to do just fine. Despite opinions to the contrary.
Wayne

lonehiker
03-20-2018, 18:13
Yikes. They fill up a shelter. Folks who arrive after them will not be pleased.
Wayne

The vids I saw, and I watched them all, showed them tenting.

Venchka
03-20-2018, 18:20
The vids I saw, and I watched them all, showed them tenting.
That’s what I get for thinking.
Tenting is good.
Wayne

McBlaster
03-20-2018, 19:42
In their first video they were spitting their toothpaste into a creek.

KCNC
03-20-2018, 20:25
-Gastrointestinal illness hit them at Neel's Gap - had to take an unplanned zero because half of them were unwell.

-The video posted yesterday indicated that the father "flicked" the baby in the mouth because he wouldn't quit crying, making his lip bleed.

-Had they started a month from now I'd probably be rooting them on. As it is, I feel sorry for the baby for all the reasons previously stated. It's damned cold and wet out there this time of year and he has no understanding of what's going on.

-Don't know if they took the drone with them, they found out before they left they weren't allowed and they have a disclaimer that none of the drone footage is actually from the AT.

-My wife has skimmed their videos thus far, I've watched snippets. I hope no one gets hurt.

Lone Wolf
03-20-2018, 20:27
foolishness. hope they don't make it

KCNC
03-20-2018, 20:34
I also subscribed out of sheer curiosity but you are right, it does seem like a setup for a reality show.

They're not interested in ad revenue, but if you want to send them money they'll take it. :-?

I just don't get it. Oh well, perhaps I'm not meant to understand.

KCNC
03-20-2018, 20:37
Made it through one and a half videos, couldn't watch any more. Yes, the lip flicking and foot treatment of the toddler bothers me, but few of the other kids seem that jazzed to be there either. Cold, rainy/snowy weather doesn't help, but no way to avoid that; you have to be prepared for that no matter when you start, either at the start of the trail or the end (or both!).

Lots of other judgy things in my head, similar to what has already been posted. Just my 2c, but looks more like a determined dad who is going to push through anything, regardless of the circumstances or risk...and that worries me. I hope they've also budgeted for a medivac.

Actually, in one of the videos it's the Mom who is determined to complete the hike. She even admits at that point that she's not as committed to it as she originally was.

Pastor Bryon
03-20-2018, 20:48
Actually, in one of the videos it's the Mom who is determined to complete the hike. She even admits at that point that she's not as committed to it as she originally was.My bad, good correction.

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk

Zed
03-20-2018, 20:58
I dove in last night and watched a several of their other videos. He apparently was a ring leader of a bunch of card counting Christian blackjack players. Supposedly took several casinos for millions. The documentary "Holy Rollers" is about it. https://goo.gl/Rnk8FT

He paid for her nursing school, which once graduated and employed she quit after 12 days because she couldn't do math. (what?)

They seem to put everything in their life out there. 600+ videos.

But as I mentioned before, I don't get it. They don't have many subscribers. They aren't monetized on YouTube. Most of their older videos get about 1500 views. They are obviously attention seeking, but they aren't very good at it.

I don't know why I'm so interested, probably because there is something I'm missing. I can't point to anything in particular, but it feels like a con.

D2maine
03-20-2018, 21:11
foolishness. hope they don't make it

its just walking :rolleyes:

FranklinBeans
03-20-2018, 21:45
I was on their side, initially. The baby will be fine. I'm sure he runs around every time they take a break.


Dad's hitting the baby in the face though? Welp. That's abuse, and I expect social services will be wanting a chat with them shortly.

stumpknocker
03-21-2018, 06:48
I would want parents just like this if I were a kid!

Mugthumper
03-21-2018, 10:40
A couple and an infant just a few months old thru hiked last year or the year before. They seemed to do just fine. Despite opinions to the contrary.
Wayne


It seems we see parents hit the trail every year with kids in tow, but I don't think I can recall any starting the first day of March. It is just not sensible.

There is also a huge difference between carrying around an infant compared to a toddler. 2 year old children have TONS of energy. All of my kids at 2 years old had endless energy from the moment they woke up until bedtime. They are/were always running, dancing, singing, and carrying their toys back and forth to every square inch of my house. Their 2 year old looks nearly comatose every time they show him in the carrier. Look into that child's eyes and tell me that he is not absolutely miserable. I would not doubt if what we are all seeing is the early signs of hypothermia. They even stated that it was taking them I believe 3-4 hours to get warm after getting into the tent. From what I see and the way they talk about their gear, having 3 kids sharing a sleeping bag/comforter together to try and keep warm, they are not geared to be out there.

They have inadequately knowledge of their situation and surroundings and inadequately geared for being there. It is a recipe for disaster.

Slo-go'en
03-21-2018, 11:08
They have inadequately knowledge of their situation and surroundings and inadequately geared for being there. It is a recipe for disaster.

Lets see if they make it out of the Smokies without rescue or death, seeing how nasty the weather will be.

kestral
03-21-2018, 11:24
I read these posts, watch the videos and am reminded of the famous quote about pornography. “I can’t define it, but I know it when I see it.” This has crossed to child endangerment.

This is is a narcissist using his children to publicize himself. And the mother? Perhaps she has been sucked into his world for so long she doesn’t recognize this as bizarre. I love seeing kids outside, but 3-4 hours to get warm, hypothermia to a toddler, hot packs on toddlers hands and feet and unable to move away from them, losing temper and “flicking” toddler. ( that’s what is documented and admitted to by the father, what got edited out?) Who is the adult?

Take a few weeks to let the weather warm at least.

I know many fine devout individuals from different religions, and am proud to be counted as their friends. However, extreme religious identification can lead to cult like behavior. An intelligent, charismatic man can twist scripture to say whatever he wants. Add isolation from others, dependence on the father for food, warmth, basic survival.... lets just say I wouldn’t drink their coolaid.

All this being said, I hope I am completely wrong and that these folks have an excellent experience, and that they achieve their goals. I respect people who live outside the box, but the kids don’t have a choice, and kids crave security and safety - go out and explore, but have a safe nest to be nurtured in when you come home, whether home is a tent, a trailer, or a mansion. We are all just learning, but the wise learn from the mistakes of others, hence my love of white blaze and other informative sites.

Again, take a few weeks off to let the weather warm at least.

Mugthumper
03-21-2018, 11:25
I must be a glutton for punishment, because I did end up watching all of their on trail videos. I realized there was only 5 or so, so the investment wasn't too much. I almost feel guilty about giving them clicks, but what can I say Youtube is like videocrack.

These people are attention seekers who are basically selling themselves to us, the audience. Like a couple of others stated, it really does feel like some audition for a reality show. The way they come across is so disingenuous.

Its all about the drama, drama, drama. Seriously, talk of being in survival mode on day 3, and not knowing what they were going to eat, while sitting in a cabin at Neel Gap? GTFO.

Starting in the first couple miles of day 1, they constantly ignore their better judgment. They themselves are freezing, even while walking all day, but think their 2 year old in the carrier is the warmest of any of them. That boy is way colder than either of the parents. They stated that he already has sunburn and windburn on this face also. It has already gotten to the points where he tells then "owie, owie, cold cold" and the mother actually says that the best thing to do is to ignore him and keep walking. The father, and I use that term loosely, says; Its sad to see him hurting, but it's really not worrying me. Then he busts the kid in the mouth and draws blood because the child is crying.

I mean, seriously, if some of you can't see the complete lack of common sense and judgement, I don't know what to tell to you.

lonehiker
03-21-2018, 11:36
I don't know if they will complete the trail. My gut tells me that they probably won't. But, one thing for sure is that they have made it further than many and as an aside most that start the AT do so with inadequate knowledge. Another note is that their vids are only a few minutes long out of a 24 (or more) hour time period. So I think it a bit absurd to draw any conclusions about what is actually going on from the tidbits you see. I get a chuckle about all the comments about why the kids were sick. Do you suppose it is possible that their digestive system revolted because they gorged themselves on pizza (and anything else they could get their hands on)? I suspect much of the negative comments, especially on the youtube site, stems from parents' feelings of inadequacy as they watch the family attempt this as they pay for their kid's video game subscription so they don't have to interact with them. As to the kid always shown sleeping; this could very well be the only quiet time that allows for filming. Who knows as it is all speculation.

To preempt those going to ask about the kid being flicked in the mouth. No I don't condone that method of discipline. I do not, however, believe that it is child abuse.

A recipe for disaster? How so? There are so many bailout options that if anything got really disastrous they could easily get out. Cold weather is not a disaster. I've seen many thru-hikers having to sleep with every stitch of clothing on so don't see anything particularly unusual about their gear failings. In fact, I've not seen them do anything that I haven't observed from the typical crop of prospective thru-hikers. To include, spitting toothpaste into, or at least close to, a water source. If you haven't seen it you haven't been on many trails.

Gambit McCrae
03-21-2018, 11:54
I don't know if they will complete the trail. My gut tells me that they probably won't. But, one thing for sure is that they have made it further than many and as an aside most that start the AT do so with inadequate knowledge. Another note is that their vids are only a few minutes long out of a 24 (or more) hour time period. So I think it a bit absurd to draw any conclusions about what is actually going on from the tidbits you see. I get a chuckle about all the comments about why the kids were sick. Do you suppose it is possible that their digestive system revolted because they gorged themselves on pizza (and anything else they could get their hands on)? I suspect much of the negative comments, especially on the youtube site, stems from parents' feelings of inadequacy as they watch the family attempt this as they pay for their kid's video game subscription so they don't have to interact with them. As to the kid always shown sleeping; this could very well be the only quiet time that allows for filming. Who knows as it is all speculation.

To preempt those going to ask about the kid being flicked in the mouth. No I don't condone that method of discipline. I do not, however, believe that it is child abuse.

A recipe for disaster? How so? There are so many bailout options that if anything got really disastrous they could easily get out. Cold weather is not a disaster. I've seen many thru-hikers having to sleep with every stitch of clothing on so don't see anything particularly unusual about their gear failings. In fact, I've not seen them do anything that I haven't observed from the typical crop of prospective thru-hikers. To include, spitting toothpaste into, or at least close to, a water source. If you haven't seen it you haven't been on many trails.

You ol' freedom fighter you :) You would make a good defense attorney.

Subjecting a 2 year old to those conditions and making him sit in a damn carrier all day, tieing his jumper sleeves with hot hands inside of them, making his lip bleed...Are you freakin' kidding me??

I have never been a fan of the PETA snowflakes of our time asking the question "Would you want to be locked in a little cage like that poor chicken?!" BUT
Would YOU want to be in that carrier for 8-12 miles a day, with your sleeves tied at the end with no control over if those hot hands are actually too hot and burning your fingers or toes while the rest of your body is borderline hypothermic? What about if you crap your pants while your in said carrier and when doing so it pushes you over the edge and you start to cry, instead of the person that you are suppose to view as your protector helping you, he turns around and gives ya good pop in the lip "SHUTUP" he says, and turns around to continue walking. Yea...Sounds like real fun

Feral Bill
03-21-2018, 12:05
I decided to take action and sent an email to GSMNP with a link to their Youtube channel. I stated that I had no firsthand knowledge but thought they should check up on them. I did not do this lightly. Probably some people would question my judgement in my on outdoors activities with my kids when they were young. Still, it had to be done. Now I can sleep soundly.

lonehiker
03-21-2018, 12:16
You ol' freedom fighter you :) You would make a good defense attorney.

Subjecting a 2 year old to those conditions and making him sit in a damn carrier all day, tieing his jumper sleeves with hot hands inside of them, making his lip bleed...Are you freakin' kidding me??

I have never been a fan of the PETA snowflakes of our time asking the question "Would you want to be locked in a little cage like that poor chicken?!" BUT
Would YOU want to be in that carrier for 8-12 miles a day, with your sleeves tied at the end with no control over if those hot hands are actually too hot and burning your fingers or toes while the rest of your body is borderline hypothermic? What about if you crap your pants while your in said carrier and when doing so it pushes you over the edge and you start to cry, instead of the person that you are suppose to view as your protector helping you, he turns around and gives ya good pop in the lip "SHUTUP" he says, and turns around to continue walking. Yea...Sounds like real fun

Do you honestly believe they are hiking their mileage non-stop? What do you suppose they are doing on breaks? Are you suggesting that while they take breaks and eat lunch that mom is simply standing there with him still in his carrier? How have you come to the conclusion that the kid was borderline hypothermic?

Gambit McCrae
03-21-2018, 12:48
Do you honestly believe they are hiking their mileage non-stop? What do you suppose they are doing on breaks? Are you suggesting that while they take breaks and eat lunch that mom is simply standing there with him still in his carrier? How have you come to the conclusion that the kid was borderline hypothermic?

I did not say I think those things, I said 8-10 miles a day, not 8-10 miles non stop.

From Medicinenet.com:

signs of hypothermia in babies
-An accurate axillary (armpit) or rectal temperature below 36.4 C (97.5 F)
-A weak cry.
-Low energy level.
-Lethargic.
-Reddish and cold skin.
-Cool feeling of extremities and abdomen.
-Poor feeding.
-Hypoglycemia (low blood sugar)


I decided to take action and sent an email to GSMNP with a link to their Youtube channel. I stated that I had no firsthand knowledge but thought they should check up on them. I did not do this lightly. Probably some people would question my judgement in my on outdoors activities with my kids when they were young. Still, it had to be done. Now I can sleep soundly.

Good on you Bill. Hey if they check up on them, and all is well then all is well. Better safe then sorry

kolokolo
03-21-2018, 12:57
Gotta say, all of these posts and YouTube views might just be giving the family the type of attention that they are after.

Just sayin'. [emoji4]

Mugthumper
03-21-2018, 13:01
Hey lonehiker. For me it is about being a responsible parent. This family is not one you would see in your prospective cop of thru hikers. Out of the thousands that get on trail every year, how many start on March 1st with a 2 year old? My guess is not many or that none have even attempted it. They seem ill equipped for doing so which compounds the problem. I have no issue whatsoever with the other 5 children, even the 7 year old even though I wouldn't even dream of it.

I personally have been planning for the past 6 months for this summer to take my 7 year old on trip from rockfish gap to harper's ferry. I decided just last week that I will likely wait at least 1 more year to take him with me on a longer trip. It isn't the physical commitment that I worry about. I talk to him about it and he just isn't ready for a trip of that length. We will stick to overnighters for the time being and I'm happy with that. I want his love of the outdoors to come from his own appreciation and not because I forced my own wants on him selfishly. We are in scouts, play baseball, kayak, fish, and of course hike. He's no couch slug glued to a smartphone. Just for perspective.

Now taking a 2 year old out there right now, I certainly have issue with. A 2 year old only has a couple ways to tell you something is wrong, by saying that it hurts or by crying. That child has done exactly this and from the sound of things very frequently. Their response? They talk about how she thinks the best thing to do is ignore him and keep walking. The father says that he knows his son is hurting but it doesn't really worry him. Sure, lots of options for bailout, but I'm fairly certain that they wouldn't even realize if their son was experiencing hypothermia. They just aren't knowledgeable. Look at the videos where they put him in rain clothes and cable tie the legs and arm openings closed, the child is likely constantly soaking wet and of course freezing.

A 2 year old in a child carrier just isn't your typical thru hiker.

On the flip side of the argument. As you said, we are only seeing a fraction of their day. What is more likely, that they only turn on the camera when the kid is asleep, or that what we are seeing is what is happening, a child who is almost always sleeping or lethargic, ignored, told to be quiet when he does voice his discomfort and then smacked in the mouth out of anger and frustration? We see only what they show us.

Knee Jerk
03-21-2018, 13:08
This is "mommy content" and it exists solely so people can comment on it. Which is awful.

It's the world of social media, driven by the need to be famous. Which is awful.

It's the "Kardashian Effect" in action and somehow they'll figure out a way to make money off this. Which is awful.

I predict Oprah will be all over this in 3... 2... 1...

Wait, does Oprah still have a TV Show? I dunno, but my advice would be don't click on it, don't look at it and don't comment on it because it only gets them what they seek - notoriety.

Gambit McCrae
03-21-2018, 13:08
Just posted a new video

https://youtu.be/qTNynA2Cz9E

lonehiker
03-21-2018, 13:14
From Medicinenet.com:

signs of hypothermia in babies
-An accurate axillary (armpit) or rectal temperature below 36.4 C (97.5 F)
-A weak cry.
-Low energy level.
-Lethargic.
-Reddish and cold skin.
-Cool feeling of extremities and abdomen.
-Poor feeding.
-Hypoglycemia (low blood sugar)





Hmmm, lets see:
Armpit rectal temp-absolutely no data to support that it was below 97.5d
weak cry-not enough data to substantiate this.
Low energy level-no data on this as we don't see his activity during breaks in camp etc.
Cool feeling of extremities and abs-no data to support this
poor feeding - no data
hypoglycemia- no data
Reddish and cold skin - he had red cheeks.

Yep we have hypothermia on our hands here!

FranklinBeans
03-21-2018, 13:20
To preempt those going to ask about the kid being flicked in the mouth. No I don't condone that method of discipline. I do not, however, believe that it is child abuse.




I can assure you that hitting a toddler in the face and drawing blood is legally a crime and child abuse in all fifty states.

Coffee
03-21-2018, 13:34
I can assure you that hitting a toddler in the face and drawing blood is legally a crime and child abuse in all fifty states.
Sure is.

The problem with these people (the adults) is that they are just not likable and come across as self indulgent, attention seeking (hey, look at ME) and whiny. Who needs that in a trail video when there are so many good ones?

MuddyWaters
03-21-2018, 14:19
Sure is.

The problem with these people (the adults) is that they are just not likable and come across as self indulgent, attention seeking (hey, look at ME) and whiny. Who needs that in a trail video when there are so many good ones?
Just my take on it but I pretty much think all u tube videos that people make are" hey look at me".

Why else would idiots review things that have been reviewed dozens of times already. Or especially review things without ever having used them. Just take them out the freaking box and give their opinion of them.

Because people are retards. Looking for some attention. That they have no other way to receive.

kestral
03-21-2018, 14:28
Sure is.

The problem with these people (the adults) is that they are just not likable and come across as self indulgent, attention seeking (hey, look at ME) and whiny. Who needs that in a trail video when there are so many good ones?
Absolutely right.

shame on moi for feeding their narcissism.

back to Darwin on the trail for me!

Slo-go'en
03-21-2018, 14:36
It's like a slow moving train wreck which we can't stop watching.

In this last video, the baby doesn't look very happy at all. At least not until they got to the heated pool.

They sure have a lot of baggage.
He has to be flying a drone.

Sure, just shake off all the ice from your tent onto the motel carpet.

If this video was uploaded today, maybe they turned around and went back to Fontana, but it was only speculation they got that far.

Puddlefish
03-21-2018, 14:52
Haven't watched the video, I don't like to reward attention wh... seekers. I just want to state that my prior comment was based on a general family hiking with kids, and their chance of finishing the trail. These parents sound horrible, but there's no rule that horrible people can't have kids, or can't be on the trail.

Zed
03-21-2018, 14:55
They are carrying a drone. They had a prehike video where they griped about how much grief they got on hiking forums when he asked about hiking with it.

He says he's keeping it legal where he's flying it. I don't have an issue with drones as long as I don't see it or hear it. I got a 6am wakeup call from a "film crew" with a drone at Table Rock above Grafton Notch last fall. For a split second I thought I was going to have to get physical with the "director" as I was leaving but cooler heads prevailed.

BuckeyeBill
03-21-2018, 15:10
When my 1st wife was pregnant with our first child, I went over to my parents house and talked to them, as this was something I did not know a lot about. Dad reassured me I would be fine. Mom told me that a baby usually only cries for three reasons. 1-They're hungry. 2-They need changed. 3 they want love/attention. Mom as usual was right. Dad was too.

Now if they are staying together, (the younger children walking with a pack), they have to keep a steady pace. Having the 2 year old in a carrier that long will do nothing but make him grumpy and he is probably crying so they will stop so he can get out and stretch. I mean even on long drives, it is always nice to stop on occasion and walk around.

To Feral Bill, I think what you did was best for the baby.

Gambit McCrae
03-21-2018, 15:14
Because people are retards. Looking for some attention.

This made me laugh pretty hard lol


It's like a slow moving train wreck which we can't stop watching.

In this last video, the baby doesn't look very happy at all. At least not until they got to the heated pool.

If this video was uploaded today, maybe they turned around and went back to Fontana, but it was only speculation they got that far.

There is a picture of them at mollies ridge that was taken at the latest yesterday. I doubt they turned around....

Traffic Jam
03-21-2018, 16:03
This made me laugh pretty hard lol



There is a picture of them at mollies ridge that was taken at the latest yesterday. I doubt they turned around....

Well, today and tonight may make or break 'em. Snow and frigid temps in the Smokies today and tonight. I hope they handle it okay, especially the kids.

greentick
03-21-2018, 16:06
These people are too annoying to watch(managed 10-15min of the first vid and 10min of the one above. Agree they are shopping a "reality" show. Popping the baby is wrong.

My wife and I have 8 kids, currently aged 14 to almost-three y/o twins. All of them have been on hikes/bikes/canoe trips(the oldest was 6m/o crawling around in the bottom of a muddy canoe in Kentucky (wearing a USCG approved PFD of course). All of them love it. We usually lay low for at least 6mos after a baby is born to let my wife recover, whether she feels good at 6wks or not. We have not done a multiday overnighter with the whole crew yet, but that is not far off. I could see the kids making/editing a video, because they're into that. I don't think I would post it on youtube tho. Our last major trip was a drive to Colorado from SE GA to get in some hiking last fall. Houses are cheap to rent outside of ski season. I floated the idea of driving to Glacier NP next and they were disappointed that I was talking about 2019 and not this fall. 10 people in a 12pax van was the biggest potential point for misery but it really went quite well (except I had an abscessed tooth they whole way there, highly recommend not travelling with an abscessed tooth).

The main issue with hiking seems that when our kids are under 5 they seem to face plant...alot. So they go in some sort of carrier. We've had great success with a couple of kelty carriers we got for the oldest 2, complete with sunshade/rolldown sides, bug nets, and accessory bags. We get them out frequently. If we were going to do multiday with a kid in the carrier during potential inclement wx I would MYOG some mods to ensure the kid stayed warm. On the trail with limited resourses is not the time to figure it out.

Everybody has their own comfort level. If someone takes a risk with their kids and things go bad, not only do they have possible legal implications but they will have to live with their bad decisions for the rest of their lives.

My wife and I have a lot of experience, both have a lot of medical training, both think independently and with a different style. That said, if one of us says "this ain't right" and throws up a danger flag, we don't argue about it. Sometimes a trip just needs a little adjustment to continue but we don't have hard feelings if we have to bail. Better to have tried and failed than to sit in your living room wondering if you could have. Helps with planning the next trip.

We do "rehearsals" with our gear prior to a trip. We always have more kids but at this point we know what gear we like. Also, the oldest 5 (14,13,11,9,almost 7) but especially the teens have better parenting skills than a lot of parents I run across working in the ER. They understand the team/family concept that if we know they are an extra set of eyes and set a good example for the younger ones we will do more trips.

Have a PACE plan. Use control measures. Skills don't weigh a thing, have them in your head when you go. But most of all have fun. Misery is temporary and fades after you are done if your planning is adequate and no one dies.

JC13
03-21-2018, 16:31
Just my take on it but I pretty much think all u tube videos that people make are" hey look at me".

Why else would idiots review things that have been reviewed dozens of times already. Or especially review things without ever having used them. Just take them out the freaking box and give their opinion of them.

Because people are retards. Looking for some attention. That they have no other way to receive.Kind of like why people post here, huh.

Pak-Man
03-22-2018, 09:10
From a Trail Journal... Double Spring Gap Shelter


"One final note before signing off. The Crawford Family made it to this same shelter last night. The toddler was evidently in bad shape from the harsh weather. They hiked the 4 mikes up to Clingman’s Dome this morning, where they were reportedly evacuated by the Forest Service. Prayers, please, for the Crawford’s, and for all of the hikers still not out of the woods just yet."

Angle
03-22-2018, 09:12
Read on the trail journals site that the Crawfords were evacuated from Clingsman Dome by the park service.

Gambit McCrae
03-22-2018, 09:24
hmmm, lets see:
Armpit rectal temp-absolutely no data to support that it was below 97.5d
weak cry-not enough data to substantiate this.
Low energy level-no data on this as we don't see his activity during breaks in camp etc.
Cool feeling of extremities and abs-no data to support this
poor feeding - no data
hypoglycemia- no data
reddish and cold skin - he had red cheeks.

Yep we have hypothermia on our hands here!

do you have enough data yet?!

Mugthumper
03-22-2018, 09:31
Most of us saw this coming. I hoped they would've had enough sense to wait the storm out. Apparently not. Hopefully he fully recovers and these idiot parents put an end to it.

rhjanes
03-22-2018, 09:55
Sad that this was going on. One of the last video's I watched (Couldn't watch much of any of them.....) Mom seemed to have a look of "I love him....but this is ridiculous....wonder when he will understand that"... All the kids interviewed (and it was a nice day) had a "are we done with this yet?" look and attitude. "what are YOU enjoying about our hike?" "getting to town" "and you?" "the pool in the hotel" "and you?" "Pizza in the room"
Reality in search of a bad-TV show......

Traffic Jam
03-22-2018, 10:03
I really worried about those kids last night and hope they are okay. Figured they were somewhere around Thunderhead Mt. Temp was a high of 18*, wind chill -4.

T.S.Kobzol
03-22-2018, 10:04
the aholes


From a Trail Journal... Double Spring Gap Shelter


"One final note before signing off. The Crawford Family made it to this same shelter last night. The toddler was evidently in bad shape from the harsh weather. They hiked the 4 mikes up to Clingman’s Dome this morning, where they were reportedly evacuated by the Forest Service. Prayers, please, for the Crawford’s, and for all of the hikers still not out of the woods just yet."

TexasBob
03-22-2018, 10:14
I decided to take action and sent an email to GSMNP with a link to their Youtube channel. I stated that I had no firsthand knowledge but thought they should check up on them. I did not do this lightly. Probably some people would question my judgement in my on outdoors activities with my kids when they were young. Still, it had to be done. Now I can sleep soundly.

The parents should thank you but it probably would not occur to them to do so.


..... These parents sound horrible, but there's no rule that horrible people can't have kids..........

Sad but true

T.S.Kobzol
03-22-2018, 10:20
I watched their last video yesterday and they said the forecast for next few days is just rain so they were going to go for it. I wonder if they observed lower elevation forecast instead of higher summits forecast. Here in Maine and New Hampshire we look at higher summits forecast when we plan a winter hike...not sure if the same exists for the Smokies but I can't imagine why it wouldn't.

Gambit McCrae
03-22-2018, 10:27
I watched their last video yesterday and they said the forecast for next few days is just rain so they were going to go for it. I wonder if they observed lower elevation forecast instead of higher summits forecast. Here in Maine and New Hampshire we look at higher summits forecast when we plan a winter hike...not sure if the same exists for the Smokies but I can't imagine why it wouldn't.

It certainly does exist with the knowledgeable/ common sense hiker. I know personally if I see March rain in Gatlinburg, I just steer clear of the smokies until nicer weather.

Mugthumper
03-22-2018, 10:45
I watched their last video yesterday and they said the forecast for next few days is just rain so they were going to go for it. I wonder if they observed lower elevation forecast instead of higher summits forecast. Here in Maine and New Hampshire we look at higher summits forecast when we plan a winter hike...not sure if the same exists for the Smokies but I can't imagine why it wouldn't.

That video footage was from earlier this month on the 9th. There is a delay from the time they shoot the footage then edit and upload.

Ashepabst
03-22-2018, 10:48
hey, it's just rain... what's the old saying about hypothermia... makes the heart grow fonder, or something like that. [/end_sarcasm]

most folks wouldn't take their dog out on that kind of hike.

T.S.Kobzol
03-22-2018, 10:57
aah. thanks. I seem to vaguely remember them saying they will upload every day so I thought the delay wasn't as much as what you just indicated.


That video footage was from earlier this month on the 9th. There is a delay from the time they shoot the footage then edit and upload.

Slo-go'en
03-22-2018, 11:15
I wonder how they will spin this to make it not their fault they needed a rescue. I also hope they get into big trouble for lugging a small child up into those weather conditions.

Lone Wolf
03-22-2018, 11:33
the AT has turned into one big reality show and party

Gambit McCrae
03-22-2018, 11:42
the AT has turned into one big reality show and party

It should just be walking right LW? :bse

Mugthumper
03-22-2018, 12:11
This is the trail journal of Which Way and Next Step. I don't know them but their journal is the one that mentions the Crawford family being evacuated by the Forest Service. If you read through, it may give some a better idea of the conditions the hikers are facing up there right now. I personally think it sounds like a helluva adventure, as long as the only person I had to be accountable for was myself. I might have to go back and read their Journal from the beginning, as his storytelling really sucked me in. The last paragraph is where you will find the information about the Crawford's evacuation.

http://www.trailjournals.com/journal/entry/584645

kestral
03-22-2018, 12:15
I literally wouldn’t take my dog out in that weather, in the High mountains, and she has a fleece coat, a windbreaker/ rain coat, fur coat, and is running around. When she is sagging from overwork I can easily read her body language and we hole up for snacks, or an early overnight. We eat well and hydrate. I don’t hit her for complaining.

What at is wrong with these people? This is the adult’s dream. Park the kids with grandparents and freeze your own asses off if you want, but don’t “suffer the little children”

i cant watch “mr whiner and his bad idea, episode nth...”. Gives me heart burn.

Their poor judgment and bad behavior may impact regulations for future hiking families. Hard to litigate common sense.

(FYI, my dog is 11, cold seems to be harder on her now)

MuddyWaters
03-22-2018, 12:28
No law against being stupid , unfortunately.

Slo-go'en
03-22-2018, 12:45
No law against being stupid , unfortunately.

Unless it results in child endangerment.

BuckeyeBill
03-22-2018, 13:21
Unless it results in child endangerment.

true very true.

LittleRock
03-22-2018, 13:33
IMO, these guys are about on the same level as the mom in this story on our local news this morning.

http://www.wral.com/raleigh-police-arrest-mom-after-facebook-video-shows-baby-smoking-/17432881/

RuthN
03-22-2018, 14:19
I haven't read this whole thread, but I've been following the Crawfords out of concern for the baby.

The issue is not the wisdom of bringing small children on a thru-hike. The Crawfords' specific issue is that they were neglecting the baby. Here are just a few highlights:

Here is what they considered appropriate rain and wind protection. Later on in the video they discovered that his socks had indeed stayed wet. https://youtu.be/muoIaCjqWsQ?t=3m33s

Some of them got vomiting and diarrhea and the family holed up in a cabin. Here the father describes the care the sick children are receiving (he doesn't know what they're going to eat but he's happy there's internet). https://youtu.be/RSmAh5xp2uU?t=7m48s

The father describes busting the baby's lip because he wouldn't stop screaming while they were walking on a ridge in cold and windy conditions. https://youtu.be/s7ymIT29i7g?t=6m57s

I thought the baby's hands looked frostbitten in this video, but I'm no expert. https://youtu.be/qTNynA2Cz9E?t=15m24s

Feral Bill
03-22-2018, 15:39
I just spoke to GSMNP law enforcement. They contacted the Crawfords yesterday and they are okay. No further details.

rocketsocks
03-22-2018, 15:45
the AT has turned into one big reality show and party...and board & video game, T-shirts, hand bags, even a bobble headed whatchamacallit. Exploitation at it finest, the American dream! Ugh

BowGal
03-22-2018, 15:47
This is the trail journal of Which Way and Next Step. I don't know them but their journal is the one that mentions the Crawford family being evacuated by the Forest Service. If you read through, it may give some a better idea of the conditions the hikers are facing up there right now. I personally think it sounds like a helluva adventure, as long as the only person I had to be accountable for was myself. I might have to go back and read their Journal from the beginning, as his storytelling really sucked me in. The last paragraph is where you will find the information about the Crawford's evacuation.

http://www.trailjournals.com/journal/entry/584645

Please tell me the snow in the journal link you provided is unusual.
I live in Northern Canada...that’s normal for us, but I would never think that there’d be that much snow for the Smokies. Yikes! How does one deal/prepare for that in advance? Take multiple zeroes until the forecast looks better, or just put the blinders on and trudge on through.

Gambit McCrae
03-22-2018, 15:55
Please tell me the snow in the journal link you provided is unusual.
I live in Northern Canada...that’s normal for us, but I would never think that there’d be that much snow for the Smokies. Yikes! How does one deal/prepare for that in advance? Take multiple zeroes until the forecast looks better, or just put the blinders on and trudge on through.

Wait it out. People (Like the Crawfords), have to be rescued every year because the wrong person, the Crawfords of our world, didn't know when to pump the breaks and give it a break. The trail isn't going anywhere. I realize that not all rescues can be avoided obviously there are going to be the broken legs, heart attacks, even as we see in previous years bear attacks. But this was just pure ignorance to Smokies weather...high east coast altitude weather anywhere. Which IMO isn't acceptable at the risk of children. You wanna go stumble around in waist high snow drifts? have at it bud, but leave the children at home.

Feral Bill
03-22-2018, 15:59
I'm not happy about being right on this one. Hoping the toddler has no serious damage.

MuddyWaters
03-22-2018, 16:06
Please tell me the snow in the journal link you provided is unusual.
I live in Northern Canada...that’s normal for us, but I would never think that there’d be that much snow for the Smokies. Yikes! How does one deal/prepare for that in advance? Take multiple zeroes until the forecast looks better, or just put the blinders on and trudge on through.
Perfectly normal for March.

On average March gets 2 plus feet of snow. That's average. It could range from 0 to 5.
Not Unusual and not a secret.
There are ski resorts in North Carolina ..... Okay they couldn't stay in Business Without snowmaking but neither could any skis area east of the Rockies. Including those in Vermont and and New York, etc. And of course there's Ober Gatlinburg. March is winter at 6000 feet in the Smokies.

42322

Mugthumper
03-22-2018, 16:12
They had to know this storm was coming. The way hikers talk, and as many as it seems are in the Smokys right now, it would have been all anyone talked about for the 48 hours leading up to the storm. And since they were uploading a video yesterday, you know they at access to weather forecast.

Zed
03-22-2018, 16:19
I would bet they uploaded from Gatlinburg, after their "rescue."

RuthN
03-22-2018, 16:50
I just spoke to GSMNP law enforcement. They contacted the Crawfords yesterday and they are okay. No further details.

Including the baby?

Mugthumper
03-22-2018, 16:54
I would bet they uploaded from Gatlinburg, after their "rescue."

You know, you are probably right. I hadn't really thought about the timeline after reading the trail journal. They must have woke up and gotten out of their early before the drifts became too much. I wonder if the Forest Service was waiting for them.

One thing is for certain, is that if the timeline is right, they sure didn't wait long to post a video after getting their rescue. Priorities. Gotta get them clicks.

Feral Bill
03-22-2018, 16:55
Including the baby? I just repeated what I was told. Okay is subjective and I expect they don't want to discuss details at this point for legal reasons. I would think that NC. TN, and the Feds would each have jurisdiction, assuming
prosecution is justified.

Zed
03-22-2018, 17:02
One thing is for certain, is that if the timeline is right, they sure didn't wait long to post a video after getting their rescue. Priorities. Gotta get them clicks.

I hope they're editing multiple videos while in town. They were in Hiawassee in the last one. They are way behind with the uploads. :)

Mugthumper
03-22-2018, 17:18
I hope they're editing multiple videos while in town. They were in Hiawassee in the last one. They are way behind with the uploads. :)

What I'm saying is that they left Double Spring Gap shelter yesterday morning, March 21st, they walked through the snow the 2 to 3 miles to Clingmans Dome, were evacuated by the Forest Service and were already posting videos by 1:00 PM. They sure didn't waste any time to get back online.

Zed
03-22-2018, 17:21
I would expect nothing less. They have over 600 videos on YouTube. They know the drill.

Traffic Jam
03-22-2018, 18:29
If I understand the timeline, 441 was closed at that time so there was no other way to get a ride out.
Not judging, but finding it difficult to not reach some conclusions.

Jefe
03-22-2018, 18:34
This family has run multiple marathons. Even the six year old has run one. They have backpacked several times out in the pacific northwest. They have never done anything this epic, but they are not inexperienced. The drone is never used on the trail. I think the whole family will benefit from this adventure. They are realistic to the fact that they might not go the whole way, but I feel they will go pretty far. They are a very interesting family. I may not believe all the things they do, but I really admire them and the fact that for them, family comes first. I'm enjoying watching their adventure and hope to meet them with I'm out there this year. I however will be waiting for better weather before I continue my Quest.

EarthTone

T.S.Kobzol
03-22-2018, 18:40
OK. I'll bite. How will the two year old baby benefit?



This family has run multiple marathons. Even the six year old has run one. They have backpacked several times out in the pacific northwest. They have never done anything this epic, but they are not inexperienced. The drone is never used on the trail. I think the whole family will benefit from this adventure. They are realistic to the fact that they might not go the whole way, but I feel they will go pretty far. They are a very interesting family. I may not believe all the things they do, but I really admire them and the fact that for them, family comes first. I'm enjoying watching their adventure and hope to meet them with I'm out there this year. I however will be waiting for better weather before I continue my Quest.

EarthTone




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Zed
03-22-2018, 18:45
If I understand the timeline, 441 was closed at that time so there was no other way to get a ride out.
Not judging, but finding it difficult to not reach some conclusions.According to the trail journal, Forest Service took them down from Clingman's Dome.

I got lucky and got down right as 441 was closed the 1st weekend of May last year. One guy behind me walked down Clingmans Dome Rd and was picked up by a plow truck so he made it to town. Many ended up sleeping in the restrooms at Newfound Gap.

Jefe
03-22-2018, 18:58
Finally, someone on here with some good common sense. I completely agree with your comments lonehiker.

EarthTone

Jefe
03-22-2018, 19:14
OK. I'll bite. How will the two year old baby benefit?


I'm pretty sure this is just the first of many adventures he will have in his life with his family. Actually it's his second. He already hiked the Wonderland trail, but he did so in his mother's womb.

I always regret coming in here, so it's time to close this tab and move on.

Have fun all you cyber hikers. I'm heading to the trail.

Zed
03-22-2018, 19:23
Actually it's his second. He already hiked the Wonderland trail, but he did so in his mother's womb.

Actually he didn't. They hiked it in 2011 with kid #5 en utero. The other 4 hiked under their own power.

Zed
03-22-2018, 19:25
Actually he didn't. They hiked it in 2011 with kid #5 en utero. The other 4 hiked under their own power.2009. I can't even keep track of my own research.

T.S.Kobzol
03-22-2018, 19:40
Sorry you feel that way. Didn't mean to cause you any distress. I was genuinely interested to see if missed something beneficial to the baby.

I have two sons, both started outdoors early, mostly by 'osmosis' because I'm out there every weekend. One hiked Katahdin and the Presidential rand when he was six. He started hiking gradual hills since he was 3. He is 24 now. Remembers nothing from both of those big hikes or any hikes until the age of 8.

I fail to see how will a two year old baby, carried like a vegetable in freezing weather for hours every day benefit? There is nothing better?

QUOTE=Jefe;2201126]I'm pretty sure this is just the first of many adventures he will have in his life with his family. Actually it's his second. He already hiked the Wonderland trail, but he did so in his mother's womb.

I always regret coming in here, so it's time to close this tab and move on.

Have fun all you cyber hikers. I'm heading to the trail.[/QUOTE]




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

W1LDJACK
03-22-2018, 19:59
Our kids were skiing in our papoose within a year of the birth. Our middle daughter was skiing with my wife within 48 hours of her birth. all of my kids are avid Outdoor enthusiasts. Kids love It! 2 are NOLS grads as their dad. My son is an Outdoor Guide and educator. He believes in The Outdoor classroom.

Traffic Jam
03-22-2018, 20:59
Our kids were skiing in our papoose within a year of the birth. Our middle daughter was skiing with my wife within 48 hours of her birth. all of my kids are avid Outdoor enthusiasts. Kids love It! 2 are NOLS grads as their dad. My son is an Outdoor Guide and educator. He believes in The Outdoor classroom.
It sounds like you raised some damn fine kids. :)

The issue <some> people have is that the Crawford parents are making decisions that have endangered their kids’ lives for (what appears to be) social media attention. These kids are being raised in front of a camera for all the world to see...performing, if you will. How does that benefit them?

The youngest has no voice and is at the mercy of his parents’ decisions. They haven’t listened to his two-year old attempts to get their attention that he’s miserable...instead, he gets a split lip.

I try not to pass judgment on others (often unsuccessfully) but I can’t understand why they didn’t take their children into consideration and wait until it was warmer.

Time Zone
03-22-2018, 21:37
I try not to pass judgment on others (often unsuccessfully) but I can’t understand why they didn’t take their children into consideration and wait until it was warmer.

Well, there would be less drama if the weather was better. That might hurt viewership.

Of course, it could be something as simple as a scheduling matter.

These are not mutually exclusive, of course.

rocketsocks
03-22-2018, 21:55
Let’s try that again...


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXNsjRWePhI

Traffic Jam
03-22-2018, 22:42
Well, there would be less drama if the weather was better. That might hurt viewership.

Of course, it could be something as simple as a scheduling matter.

These are not mutually exclusive, of course.

I guess there ain’t no use askin’ why. Best take a walk and forget all this BS. :)

MuddyWaters
03-23-2018, 04:22
The issue <some> people have is that the Crawford parents are making decisions that have endangered their kids’ lives for (what appears to be) social media attention. These kids are being raised in front of a camera for all the world to see...performing, if you will. How does that benefit them?

The youngest has no voice and is at the mercy of his parents’ decisions. They haven’t listened to his two-year old attempts to get their attention that he’s miserable...instead, he gets a split lip.

I try not to pass judgment on others (often unsuccessfully) but I can’t understand why they didn’t take their children into consideration and wait until it was warmer.
I pass judgement on others all the time.
But I temper it with a reality check too.
You probably got 30 to 40% of parents out there producing obese children today.
If you ask me they ought to be put in jail for this.
Causing long-term physical and psychological harm to these kids
Because they're too lazy to control what their kids eat.
Of course most are too lazy to control what they themselves eat as well.

What I'm saying is people are focusing on what appears to be a hazardous circumstance children were put in, while ignoring things that go on around them everyday. Which is sooooo typical. Not really any different from people focusing on being scared of bears while ignoring all the other risks in their life. It's just what some people do. Life is not without risk. Even sitting on the sofa playing video games has its own risks, or associating with bad friends, just not as readily apparent is the difference.
But sometimes with more severe consequences.
A lot of judging here with very little information.

When you criticize someone else's parenting you might want to look in the mirror, you probably didn't do such a great job either, you were probably just lucky. The Unlucky ones are quick to get crucified. We allow kids to do all kind of very dangerous things in sports, accepted unconditionally. I've seen broken neck, fractured skull, broken limbs, smashed cheekbone, knocked out teeth, etc. No one criticizing those parents...... And you'd be shocked at how many kids are forced to play sports against their will because their parents want them to play. My brother-in-law even forced his to go to schools that gave them sports scholarships even if the kids didn't want to go to those schools. Told them they wouldn't help them with college if they didnt. The result was that they both quit playing their Sports. One nephew dropped out of football at his college his freshman year and join the Marines and said f u to his dad. Parents couldn't do anything about it.

stumpknocker
03-23-2018, 07:32
Sure is a lot of "discussion" and passing judgement going on in this thread from people with absolutely no knowledge of what is actually happening with a family out for a walk.
Probably from most who advocate HYOH (unless of course "they" don't approve)

I can't believe people on here are making up stories as to what they think is happening, some hoping they don'y make it, some turning them in to officials and hoping they are arrested.
Not one person in this thread has any idea what is actually happening on the trail.

Not one mention of ridge runners seeing a problem and helping.

The parents don't do things like I would, but they are certainly doing things the way they like.

My hat off to them. I can't imagine how tough it is doing what they are doing.

I still stand by what I said earlier in this thread..."I would want parents just like this if I were a kid!"

I love seeing families do stuff together. I truly hope they make it all the way!!

Sly
03-23-2018, 12:06
It sounds like you raised some damn fine kids. :)

The issue <some> people have is that the Crawford parents are making decisions that have endangered their kids’ lives for (what appears to be) social media attention. These kids are being raised in front of a camera for all the world to see...performing, if you will. How does that benefit them?

The youngest has no voice and is at the mercy of his parents’ decisions. They haven’t listened to his two-year old attempts to get their attention that he’s miserable...instead, he gets a split lip.

I try not to pass judgment on others (often unsuccessfully) but I can’t understand why they didn’t take their children into consideration and wait until it was warmer.
How many two year olds aren't at the mercy of their parents?

Have you watched all the videos? For the most part the kid seems quite alert and happy.

Traffic Jam
03-23-2018, 13:45
How many two year olds aren't at the mercy of their parents?

Have you watched all the videos? For the most part the kid seems quite alert and happy.

i watched most of the videos. I think there’s one where they’re standing in bathing suits or underwear that I wasn’t interested in.

Please review my posts. My issue is not that they’re hiking but the time of year they chose to do it. This time last year, I was supposed to hike the Foothills Trail with my kids. I cancelled because of bad weather because that’s what intelligent mother’s do. We hiked the AT in VA instead.

Also, the kids growing up in front of a camera bothers me.

And the kid getting his lip split pisses me off.

...

Everyone have a nice day. :)

Coffee
03-23-2018, 15:18
Flicking the two year old and drawing blood in response to the kid crying is alone enough to call the father irresponsible/abusive. These people have put their lives out there as an open book. Check out the video on how they manage their financial affairs. Their entire net worth is in six houses located in the same place and almost all of their income is from rents (no jobs) and, get this, none of the homes are even insured. Aside from the flicking thing being abusive, these people have no common sense and no ability to judge and control RISK. Hope the GSMNP rangers talked some sense into them and they get off trail.

Slo-go'en
03-23-2018, 17:29
It will be interesting to see if this soap opera continues or not. Hopefully they will go home for a bit and wait for better weather.

Mugthumper
03-23-2018, 17:44
I know that this will sound strange, but I didn't have nearly as much of an issue with the couple that took the 1 year old out on the trail last year.

It is definitely not my idea of a good time and would never dream of taking a kid that young on a thru hike but last years couple seemed to be much more prepared when they hit the trial. The biggest thing was that they didn't start their hike until April. It really goes without stating that the weather would have been much less dangerous for a 2 year old starting 5 weeks later.

The other issue is at 2 years old, children are highly mobile. I know all kids are different, but my kids were basically on their feet 12 hours a day, running, dancing, playing and generally driving me up the wall from dawn to dusk. This kid is likely in the carrier for 7-8 hours a day and after the days walking is done its straight to the tent under blankets because its too cold for anything else. He likely only gets to get up and really move around when they take a zero every 5 days or so. That's pretty rough living at 2 years old.

These parents seem to wear their general unpreparedness on their sleeve and it begins within the first moments of hitting the trail and then they make it all about the drama. They wear their unpreparedness like its a badge of honor. In the videos their narcissism, selfishness and lack of responsibility is just never ending. Regardless, I wished them the best from the beginning, even though I was hardly amused. Then daddy pops the kid in the mouth as he is crying over the cold, because of his own poor choices as a parent. If the parents can't handle it mentally, and it gets to the point where they physically punish, by flicking their 2 year old in the mouth and draw blood, that is where I draw the line.

Zed
03-23-2018, 18:00
I watched their most recent video. Glad they decided to wait out some weather when they were in Hiawassee 2 weeks ago. I'm sorta rooting for them, even though I find them insufferable.

One thing that struck me is they kept talking about survival. Unless they royally screw up, I don't believe there is any survival involved in hiking the AT. They have food, clothing, shelter, communication, other hikers around, and money. They're on vacation. Other vloggers do it too, and it was a bit of peeve of mine hearing other hikers say it when I hiked last year, so it stuck out to me.

Also, it's been pointed out to me in PM that they have hiked the Wonderland Trail twice. I know he mentioned in another video climbing Mt Ranier twice and hiking in Switzerland. They aren't totally inexperienced so why do they look like complete noobs? Drama?

Mugthumper
03-23-2018, 18:30
I watched their most recent video. Glad they decided to wait out some weather when they were in Hiawassee 2 weeks ago. I'm sorta rooting for them, even though I find them insufferable.

One thing that struck me is they kept talking about survival. Unless they royally screw up, I don't believe there is any survival involved in hiking the AT. They have food, clothing, shelter, communication, other hikers around, and money. They're on vacation. Other vloggers do it too, and it was a bit of peeve of mine hearing other hikers say it when I hiked last year, so it stuck out to me.

Also, it's been pointed out to me in PM that they have hiked the Wonderland Trail twice. I know he mentioned in another video climbing Mt Ranier twice and hiking in Switzerland. They aren't totally inexperienced so why do they look like complete noobs? Drama?
The drama they create and choice of words, like being in survival mode, is for the clicks.

I will not watch any of their videos but read their titles, its ridiculous. They show themselves holding bags of money, have titles implying that he got physical with her during a fight, tons of videos about them fighting, videos about their sex life, more videos talking about their wealth. Nothing is private to these people They love every second of the attention they can get.

I wouldn't necessarily say that they look like complete noobs though. All things considered, if you remove the unnecessary drama, the parents and the kids seem to each be doing fine on an individual level. Except for their 2 year old son, who is obviously struggling with the cold. Good on them for getting off trail during the bad weather. They finally show some common sense.

Mugthumper
03-23-2018, 18:38
The drama they create and choice of words, like being in survival mode, is for the clicks.

I will not watch any of their videos but read their titles, its ridiculous.

That should say, that I will not watch any of their other, non hiking, videos.

But I'm not sure how long I'll even watch these. Like someone stated earlier in the thread, its like a slow motion train wreck, and I just can't turn my head from it.

Coffee
03-23-2018, 18:40
I had the misfortune of watching one of the non-hiking videos on their financial situation. Suffice it to say that not watching saves you part of your life that you'll wish you could get back if you watch. And that they are about as skilled in off trail life as they are on trail. Let's apply Occam's razor: the adults are just stupid.

fiddlehead
03-23-2018, 20:11
My thoughts?
Good for them.
Some of my most memorable times growing up was my times in the cub and boy scouts and camping, hiking, cooking on fires building shelters, etc.
We can still do that kind of stuff here in Thailand and I've been teaching my 12 year old.
Too many parents don't take their kids outside anymore.
Glad to hear some still do.

capehiker
03-23-2018, 21:06
I don’t think the majority of members opposing this family is against a robust wilderness experience. I think most of us are against the manner and intent in which they are doing this. Big difference.

fiddlehead
03-24-2018, 02:09
Maybe the poll should have another choice: How many wish they would have been brought up doing this? (or thankful that they were not)

flowerboy
03-24-2018, 05:40
first ones to tell someone to hike your own hike are the first ones to talk about someone else's hike . interesting concept you guys have going on in here .

Traveler
03-24-2018, 06:04
first ones to tell someone to hike your own hike are the first ones to talk about someone else's hike . interesting concept you guys have going on in here .

When one puts their life onto you tube in a series format, they get what comes with it.

flowerboy
03-24-2018, 06:12
When one puts their life onto you tube in a series format, they get what comes with it. i see so hyoh is null and voided if someone youtubes their hike . i see ... thanks for clearing that up . what about armchair hikers and computer key bangers . should i say that most of you that have a comment on everything and anything that comes up should try getting out on the trail and actually do a little hiking ??? should i say maybe stop criticizing people and take a look in the mirror and work on yourselves ??? it is ok to say this cause you are the first one that will tell and speak your mind . you do seem to know everything . a jack of all trades ....

PennyPincher
03-24-2018, 09:04
It is never ok to hit/flick a child for any reason. And who the hell does that to a 2 year old BECAUSE THEY ARE CRYING?! Seriously. That is some messed up crap.

TexasBob
03-24-2018, 09:10
Maybe the poll should have another choice: How many wish they would have been brought up doing this? (or thankful that they were not)

Maybe these people's kids should get to vote on whether to go home or stay on the trail. They have to do what the parents do and really don't get a say in what happens next. Be interesting to know what they really think about the whole thing.

Puddlefish
03-24-2018, 10:26
I know I've shared the trail with some fairly horrible people. The difference is that most don't advertise how horrible they are. Some have left their horrible'ness in the past, and hiking the trail is part of their therapy. I have some strong opinions about these specific parents, based on a whole lot of non hiking things, but I'll keep them to myself, because this is a hiking forum, not a parenting forum, not a religious forum, not an ethics in media forum, not a political forum.

From a strictly hiking point of view, they've made a few stupid decisions, much like a lot of other people. I wouldn't trust much of anything that happens on reality TV or Youtube as being an accurate representation of reality. Don't be suckered into watching their videos because of intentionally created drama, unless you really like being fooled by that kind of thing.

JC13
03-24-2018, 11:08
It is never ok to hit/flick a child for any reason. And who the hell does that to a 2 year old BECAUSE THEY ARE CRYING?! Seriously. That is some messed up crap.Lots of people do such things, the difference is they don't post it on the Internet for anyone to see.

Now I'm not saying I agree with the behavior, but I find it bizarre that someone would intentionally post said interaction and not realize the drama that would ensue. Seems more like an attempt to get views, but since they aren't monetized, that goes against that logic. Perhaps they just really believe in being that transparent.

Additionally, last I heard, they were not taken off trail at Clingmans. Family picked them up at Newfound Gap and they were in Gatlinburg. They did have to sleep in the bathrooms at NfG until the road was opened.

BuckeyeBill
03-24-2018, 20:44
If the family doesn't want my opinion, then don't ask for it.

Dogwood
03-24-2018, 21:30
I wonder if thats an UL baby. Gives new meaning to layering to stay warm.

That's a tough group hike.

Dogwood
03-24-2018, 21:44
I know I've shared the trail with some fairly horrible people. The difference is that most don't advertise how horrible they are. Some have left their horrible'ness in the past, and hiking the trail is part of their therapy. I have some strong opinions about these specific parents, based on a whole lot of non hiking things, but I'll keep them to myself, because this is a hiking forum, not a parenting forum, not a religious forum, not an ethics in media forum, not a political forum.

From a strictly hiking point of view, they've made a few stupid decisions, much like a lot of other people. I wouldn't trust much of anything that happens on reality TV or Youtube as being an accurate representation of reality. Don't be suckered into watching their videos because of intentionally created drama, unless you really like being fooled by that kind of thing.

I'm impressed. Best post read on the thread.

Despite saying anything to the contrary many reality TV watchers have difficulty determining what is and isn't reality. I can't sit with them as they are so eager to accept fantasy as reality. They become defensive and irritated should one point it out.

double d
03-24-2018, 21:50
No offense to this family, but after a long, hard day of hiking, the last thing I would want to run into at a shelter is this group of people. It seems to me to be to many headaches, both for them and other hikers.

BuckeyeBill
03-24-2018, 22:42
I'm impressed. Best post read on the thread.

Despite saying anything to the contrary many reality TV watchers have difficulty determining what is and isn't reality. I can't sit with them as they are so eager to accept fantasy as reality. They become defensive and irritated should one point it out.

When i lived in NYC, my best friend told me and my wife that his girlfriend and another female roommate were stopped by some people from the Maury Show and asked them if they wanted to be on the show. They (the show rep) explained they were going to do a show where guest would portray L/G/B/T individuals. They also wanted them to say they both worked as strippers. The show was going to fly their parents in so they could be told. Well as it turns out only the mothers could make it and suffice it to say things did not go well. After they got off stage and the cameras stopped rolling they told the mothers the truth. Quinn said both mothers slapped the producer across the face then did the same to their daughters for lying to them. Goes to show it doesn't have to be a reality show to pull the wool over some people's eyes.

rocketsocks
03-24-2018, 22:56
I'm impressed. Best post read on the thread.

Despite saying anything to the contrary many reality TV watchers have difficulty determining what is and isn't reality. I can't sit with them as they are so eager to accept fantasy as reality. They become defensive and irritated should one point it out.are you suggesting poppin’ a baby in the mouth is wagging the dog?

Dogwood
03-25-2018, 00:25
I've seen people willing to sell their souls to be a celebrity reality TV "star", sell their movie distribution rights, act a bit part in a b rated movie, and offer all manner of favors and lies. Quest for power/money/fame/notoriety can bring out the sleaziest worst in people. These are at the root motives for so much destruction and pain. Bought movie distribution rights two yrs in CA and France before I had to get out. Now, I much prefer to talk to plants. :D

Dogwood
03-25-2018, 00:28
When i lived in NYC, my best friend told me and my wife that his girlfriend and another female roommate were stopped by some people from the Maury Show and asked them if they wanted to be on the show. They (the show rep) explained they were going to do a show where guest would portray L/G/B/T individuals. They also wanted them to say they both worked as strippers. The show was going to fly their parents in so they could be told. Well as it turns out only the mothers could make it and suffice it to say things did not go well. After they got off stage and the cameras stopped rolling they told the mothers the truth. Quinn said both mothers slapped the producer across the face then did the same to their daughters for lying to them. Goes to show it doesn't have to be a reality show to pull the wool over some people's eyes.

Common. This isnt told though. I can relate known similar events with the same process.

rocketsocks
03-25-2018, 00:33
I've seen people willing to sell their souls to be a celebrity reality TV "star", sell their movie distribution rights, act a bit part in a b rated movie, and offer all manner of favors and lies. Quest for power/money/fame/notoriety can bring out the sleaziest worst in people. These are at the root motives for so much destruction and pain. Bought movie distribution rights two yrs in CA and France before I had to get out. Now, I much prefer to talk to plants. :Dagreed.........

Traveler
03-25-2018, 06:54
i see so hyoh is null and voided if someone youtubes their hike . i see ... thanks for clearing that up . what about armchair hikers and computer key bangers . should i say that most of you that have a comment on everything and anything that comes up should try getting out on the trail and actually do a little hiking ??? should i say maybe stop criticizing people and take a look in the mirror and work on yourselves ??? it is ok to say this cause you are the first one that will tell and speak your mind . you do seem to know everything . a jack of all trades ....

Um, no. Literacy aside, clearly you missed the point. My only comment here was when one puts themselves into the public eye on purpose they get what they get in terms of response from the public. On their hike I am neither hot nor cold.

Highland Goat
03-25-2018, 07:53
My thoughts?
Good for them.
Some of my most memorable times growing up was my times in the cub and boy scouts and camping, hiking, cooking on fires building shelters, etc.
We can still do that kind of stuff here in Thailand and I've been teaching my 12 year old.
Too many parents don't take their kids outside anymore.
Glad to hear some still do.

In Scouting we often talk about age appropriate activities, there are minimum ages set by the Boy Scouts of America for all programs. However, it is up to adults who actually know the youth to determine which activities are suitable, as age, experience, and maturity rarely line up. A Scoutmaster; Venturing Advisor; et cetera, may decide that while someone is old enough for a program, they lack the skills to participate.

Time Zone
03-25-2018, 08:48
first ones to tell someone to hike your own hike are the first ones to talk about someone else's hike

Whose hike are the kids hiking (esp. the two year old)? Not their own.

That's why people are reacting. If the decision-makers on the hike were only at risk of hurting themselves, that's one thing. That's not what has people here concerned.

MuddyWaters
03-25-2018, 09:08
Whose hike are the kids hiking (esp. the two year old)? Not their own.

That's why people are reacting. If the decision-makers on the hike were only at risk of hurting themselves, that's one thing. That's not what has people here concerned.

Not a kid out there that directs own life.
Every kid does what parents want them to do
And only what parents want them to do

Theres always risk of being hurt

No matter what your doing

T.S.Kobzol
03-25-2018, 11:48
I in subscribed.


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T.S.Kobzol
03-25-2018, 11:49
I in subscribed.


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Unsubscribed


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Gambit McCrae
03-26-2018, 13:14
https://youtu.be/IOrv6uUIL8I?list=PL8jVL_i9OvEF_GWO4E1AneMON_IFLqci u

FranklinBeans
03-27-2018, 12:33
https://youtu.be/IOrv6uUIL8I?list=PL8jVL_i9OvEF_GWO4E1AneMON_IFLqci u

Man, he talks big about spending time with his baby and loving him through a tantrum for someone who hits a baby in the face :-/

Dogwood
03-27-2018, 14:00
It's a good family experience. Some things can be learned from their experiences applicable for other family's doing longer distance hikes with larger family's of adolescents.

99.9% I bet it turns into a section hike but that's not the pt and they know it. That shows some consideration of reality.

Sure is a different experience if they had chosen a cheesy cruise ship vacation.

Does remind of stories I hear from eager to sell Tiny Home sellers who took a shot at raising four kids and three large mixed breed dogs who attempted to live off grid in 250 sq ft houses. I give them credit.

Much can be learned by the kids too...LOL...like I hate hiking, I hate the AT, I hate white painted dashes, I hate mashed potatoes and Ramen, I hate the rain. Then, maybe they'll have better understanding of forced migration of Native Americans.

Gambit McCrae
03-28-2018, 11:02
They got back on the trail 6 days ago after spending 2 nights in Gatlinburg. So at 8 miles a day and a break day or 2 they are most likely either at Standing Bear/ nearby hotel/ in between Standing bear and Hot Springs. Seeing as how I will be in Between Erwin and Hot Springs SoBo this weekend, I could possibly run into them.

Dogwood
03-28-2018, 15:42
Good. Heard they are looking for a baby sitter. Nab some extra Ramen do re mi.

Last Call
03-28-2018, 19:10
How old was that "Backpacking Buddy" a few years back that set the record for youngest thru-hiker? Loooks like this family will be setting multiple records if they make it :)

FrogLevel
03-28-2018, 20:25
How old was that "Backpacking Buddy" a few years back that set the record for youngest thru-hiker? Loooks like this family will be setting multiple records if they make it :)

Last May I saw a lady thru-hiking with an infant still in diapers at Overmountain shelter. Her hiking partners were completely wasted as they stumbled into camp. You could here them half a mile away yelling and screaming. They proceeded to have an animated drunken argument about keeping the baby awake. It was embarrassing.

I wonder if they made it. That was the youngest "hiker" I've ever seen.

JC13
03-29-2018, 08:03
How old was that "Backpacking Buddy" a few years back that set the record for youngest thru-hiker? Loooks like this family will be setting multiple records if they make it :)I believe he was 5, there was an 11 month old last year but technically she wasn't considered a thru. Baxter did not let them carry her up Katahdin from what I recall. The same would most likely occur with the Crawfords if they make it that far. I want to say that 5 is the minimum age to summit Katahdin???

Zed
03-29-2018, 09:35
I believe he was 5, there was an 11 month old last year but technically she wasn't considered a thru. Baxter did not let them carry her up Katahdin from what I recall. The same would most likely occur with the Crawfords if they make it that far. I want to say that 5 is the minimum age to summit Katahdin???Children under 6 are not allowed above treeline.

Last Call
03-30-2018, 19:21
Any updates on their location?

KCNC
03-31-2018, 10:04
No idea where they are - but was just told that in their latest video (right before Franklin, I think) the father says their big double quilt is rated at 40 degrees.

:confused:

That is simply inexplicable.

Gambit McCrae
04-02-2018, 08:46
Well I met the Crawfords this weekend at Devils Fork Gap in between Hot Springs and Erwin. I came up on the kids first and kindly asked them all individually how their trip was going. They all had smiles and a tired expression of their thoughts on the hike. Overall they seemed pretty happy and they were very well behaved and well spoken. Up and over the next hill I ran into the parents with the sweet little boy in the carrier. I have to say that these folks are 100% different then they seem to be on their youtube channel. They were easy to talk to, very polite and I could see myself enjoying a fire and some beers with them. The 2 year old was a little shy but I would talk to him and make funny faces and he would just smile and laugh. I spoke with them for about 20 minutes, I did not question them on anything controversial...I did ask how the Smokies treated them and they said that they had a real tough time of it but ended up making it to Newfound Gap during the worst of the snow, and slept in a womens bathroom up there for the night along with several other hikers. They made it down to Gatlinburg the next morning via some sort of hitch I would assume by Gov employees (Salt truck, park rangers etc), and they holed up there for 2-4 days.

I would like to personally restate my opinion on the matter and that opinion is I don't really have a right to have an opinion. Its not my family and I wont ever be lucky enough to have the experience, good or bad. Dad shouldn't flick his lip, correct. May have been more suitable to start in April, correct. But now it is April, all is well and they are in high spirits. I hope they make it to Maine and if not, well they had a great trip.

42419

imscotty
04-02-2018, 10:24
Good to hear that Gambit. I hope they let the kids be their guide in how much of the trail they can get done.

Gambit McCrae
04-02-2018, 10:31
Good to hear that Gambit. I hope they let the kids be their guide in how much of the trail they can get done.

Scotty after talking with them I feel like they definitely will. Like I said, they were completely different in person. It has taught me a good lesson in a few things, including don't judge a book by its cover, and as someone else stated in this thread - Believe nothing you hear, and half of what you see..? lol True statement

FranklinBeans
04-02-2018, 11:33
I'm glad they appear more competent, i hope they avoid any further water side teeth brushing, and I really hope they stop hitting their baby :(

Feral Bill
04-02-2018, 13:31
Thank you for the good news, Gambit.

lonehiker
04-05-2018, 10:57
Well I met the Crawfords this weekend at Devils Fork Gap in between Hot Springs and Erwin. I came up on the kids first and kindly asked them all individually how their trip was going. They all had smiles and a tired expression of their thoughts on the hike. Overall they seemed pretty happy and they were very well behaved and well spoken. Up and over the next hill I ran into the parents with the sweet little boy in the carrier. I have to say that these folks are 100% different then they seem to be on their youtube channel. They were easy to talk to, very polite and I could see myself enjoying a fire and some beers with them. The 2 year old was a little shy but I would talk to him and make funny faces and he would just smile and laugh. I spoke with them for about 20 minutes, I did not question them on anything controversial...I did ask how the Smokies treated them and they said that they had a real tough time of it but ended up making it to Newfound Gap during the worst of the snow, and slept in a womens bathroom up there for the night along with several other hikers. They made it down to Gatlinburg the next morning via some sort of hitch I would assume by Gov employees (Salt truck, park rangers etc), and they holed up there for 2-4 days.

I would like to personally restate my opinion on the matter and that opinion is I don't really have a right to have an opinion. Its not my family and I wont ever be lucky enough to have the experience, good or bad. Dad shouldn't flick his lip, correct. May have been more suitable to start in April, correct. But now it is April, all is well and they are in high spirits. I hope they make it to Maine and if not, well they had a great trip.

42419

Well it sure puts my mind at ease to know that they have your seal of approval...

Gambit McCrae
04-05-2018, 11:15
Well it sure puts my mind at ease to know that they have your seal of approval...

Take a long walk...off a short pier.

BuckeyeBill
04-05-2018, 13:19
Take a long walk...off a short pier.

He would just get wet. I think that now that the weather is changing for the better, they will be getting along better and tempers won't be a short. I am still a little concerned about the 2 YO, but it seems as though the rangers they met with weren't too concerned.

Chadbrow
04-10-2018, 15:12
Just some thoughts about hiking with kids. It seems like most hikers are not fond of families with children backpacking and taking up space at shelters or not using inside voices. Why is that? Are these naysayers parents? Do they enjoy their family? Do they want to teach and share their love of the outdoors with their family? Why is the enjoyment of eight individual adult hikers more deserved than a family of eight? I’m not really looking for answers, I just want everyone to honestly ask themselves these questions.

pettas
04-10-2018, 15:44
Chadbrow - I can't answer for others but here's my take (for what it's worth)...when my wife and I were introducing our kids to the great outdoors we did our best to be sure our kids didn't interfere with the experience of other people. Not everyone will like your kids; or grandkids. As we introduce the next generation we do what we can so they can learn, explore and be wowed by nature but we do everything we can so this doesn't happen at the expense of another person's need for quiet or alone time. In what little I've watched of this family's videos, it doesn't seem like those thoughts have entered their minds. Not saying it hasn't, and many videos are made for the drama and effect so maybe that's the case here but it just doesn't seem like they care for much other than themselves. Just my limited observations. Take them for what they're worth.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.

snapper

MuddyWaters
04-10-2018, 16:23
Just some thoughts about hiking with kids. It seems like most hikers are not fond of families with children backpacking and taking up space at shelters or not using inside voices. Why is that? Are these naysayers parents? Do they enjoy their family? Do they want to teach and share their love of the outdoors with their family? Why is the enjoyment of eight individual adult hikers more deserved than a family of eight? I’m not really looking for answers, I just want everyone to honestly ask themselves these questions.

Groups suck.

Dont matter whether its a group of old people, kids, or....thruhikers. They monopolize space and disturb others.

Out of the above, the old people would likely disturb others the least though.

Uncle Joe
04-10-2018, 16:58
Scotty after talking with them I feel like they definitely will. Like I said, they were completely different in person. It has taught me a good lesson in a few things, including don't judge a book by its cover, and as someone else stated in this thread - Believe nothing you hear, and half of what you see..? lol True statement
Good to hear. My take on it has been it's simply not my business and I tend to be a freedom-first kinda guy. Be free and let others be free.

steve_zavocki
04-10-2018, 17:06
Just some thoughts about hiking with kids. It seems like most hikers are not fond of families with children backpacking and taking up space at shelters or not using inside voices. Why is that? Are these naysayers parents? Do they enjoy their family? Do they want to teach and share their love of the outdoors with their family? Why is the enjoyment of eight individual adult hikers more deserved than a family of eight? I’m not really looking for answers, I just want everyone to honestly ask themselves these questions.

^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^
Thank you for stating what I was thinking as well.

Lone Wolf
04-10-2018, 17:16
Groups suck.

Dont matter whether its a group of old people, kids, or....thruhikers. They monopolize space and disturb others.

Out of the above, the old people would likely disturb others the least though.

time for you to find another trail. the AT is very crowded. only gonna get worse

MuddyWaters
04-10-2018, 18:17
time for you to find another trail. the AT is very crowded. only gonna get worse

Way ahead of you. I branched to sierra, colorado, etc some years ago.

The bubble (long ellipse now) literally takes much of the AT over during the best time of year to hike them (sometimes only good time) .

Very reason why when i was in ga last week for funeral, i took off to hike, and drove 11 hrs Arkansas. Where saw 2 people in 5 days. Thruhikers were past damascus on april 1.

I plan to be in CO in july, and SEKI in sierra in Sept. this yr . Where i hope to see very few peoples.

The AT bubble is 700 miles long.

stumpknocker
04-11-2018, 15:34
I try to catch up on their videos whenever I can and have really enjoyed following their progress...and hope they make it all the way!

It would be a piece of cake for a regular guy or gal to thru hike the AT compared to how hard this has to be.
Even hiking with a couple dogs would be easy compared to what the Crawford family is doing.
I love that a large family is enjoying their Appalachian Trail hike. They have my total respect.

I've been around a few small families thru hiking the AT and they were always a pleasure to be around.
A ton of fun...especially the kids. I imagine it would be fun to hike around this large family.

They'll get to spend more time together as a family in six months than most families spend together in years.
I hope they inspire more families to hike the trail.

stumpknocker
04-11-2018, 19:14
I'm not happy about being right on this one. Hoping the toddler has no serious damage.

You need to watch this.

https://youtu.be/UPt_0oqhcQg

Poppins
04-11-2018, 19:57
This thread made me laugh.

Last Call
04-11-2018, 20:28
They are out there setting records, they should have first dibs on the shelters....I just hope they are encountering good ridge-runners to help them pack out their trash, I know those soiled diapers can be awful heavy.

gpburdelljr
04-11-2018, 20:37
You need to watch this.

https://youtu.be/UPt_0oqhcQg
Apparently child welfare services decided everything was OK.

Night Train
04-11-2018, 22:52
This thread made me laugh.
Wholeheartedly concur.

Poncho Hiker
04-12-2018, 10:15
pettas.... curiously wondering what it means to 'interfere with the experience of other people'? Are children on the trail or at shelter/campsite an interference? If they are how are they more of an interference that any other person? Opinions and perceptions are being formulated from 'snapshots' of their lives on the trail. Along with individual preferences, those opinions get shared here... some encouraging, some snarky. It is helpful to have Gambit's firsthand insight. Personally, I cannot imagine taking a toddler on the trail for the extended time that they are doing. But man think about the memories that those kids will have and how every encounter they have with others on the trail, maybe even you, shapes their experience. I'll never get to meet them, but I would love to be close enough to give them a shuttle and some trail goodies.

soilman
04-12-2018, 11:53
This thread has surpassed the number of posts the Quinn family thread received last year. They are the family that did a successful flip-flop thru with a baby. That thread only had 163 posts. Many on WB said they wouldn't finish.

pettas
04-12-2018, 12:50
Poncho Hiker - When I say "interfere" with another's experience, I'm talking about not allowing our kids/grandkids from annoying others; i.e. running through someone's campsite, being loud or rude (especially after dark), etc. It's pretty obvious when your kids are bothering someone else. With adults you would hope they would realize when they "cross the line" but with kids, who are just starting out, it may not be so obvious to them. As the "adult" I think it's up to me to be sure my kid/grandkid doesn't cross that line and become a nuisance to others who might be out there as well.

For what it's worth, I would hope this is a two way street. I keep my kids/grandkids out of your hair and you do the same with us. Is that really too much to ask?

That's all for now. Take care and until next time....be well.

snapper

two bad
04-13-2018, 12:08
Might want to check out their earlier vlogs. Run multiple marathons, hikes around Mt. Ranier 95 miles. Don't bet against this family, tougher than you think. What they have accomplished so far is a win. Don't hate, appreciate...

rocketsocks
04-13-2018, 12:34
Whatev, not a fan of Flicka.

Mugthumper
04-13-2018, 13:34
I decided to catch up on their videos. Quite a few things I've taken away but want to avoid writing a book about it.

As they neared the Smokies I was really glad to see that they weren't manufacturing nearly as much drama. It makes their hiking videos much more palatable. The kids are doing great from what I saw.

They need to eat more food. You can tell the parents are losing weight already even though they only averaging around 8 mpd including their zeroes every 3-4 days. We don't see everything they eat, but I would willing to bet that they should be eating close to 2-3 times as much as they are now when on trail. Combine this with the incoming warm weather and zero days being further spread out and energy levels are going to crash.

In the Smokies it was good to see that they avoided the worst of the weather and were fine all things considered. I'd take the weather they were hiking in over cold rain every single time.

It is terrible that someone called CPS on them. Nobody should have felt the need to insert themselves into their situation in that way. I've said it before that I think it is crazy to take a 2 year old out of the trail starting in early March. I also thought it unfortunate how the father handled the situation of their youngest child's discomfort which led to the flicking in the mouth incident as they ignored their better judgement a lot in the first week. But can anyone in all honesty watch these videos and say that these parents do not love their kids? In my eyes their children appear to be well loved and receive more parenting than a large percentage of today's youth.

In the final videos he basically call out us here at whiteblaze. I would have completely respected if he just would of came out and told the people that don't agree they could F*** off and leave it at that. I actually agree with many of the principles and philosophies that the family tries to instill in their kids. Unfortunately, the father has all the charm of a used car salesman. If he didn't actually care what people thought he wouldn't of made one of their longest videos about how much he doesn't care. The video only served to remind me of how narcissistic and hypocritical he is. If you are familiar with personality types there is a lot to be gleaned from almost everything he says.

But I digress. I wouldn't of likely addressed the last video if they hadn't made it about our discussion here in this forum.

I still wish the family the best.

Mugthumper
04-13-2018, 13:47
I don't know what happened in my last post, I always type it in a notepad so I don't accident erase it before sending. So here it is again.



I decided to catch up on their videos. Quite a few things I've taken away but want to avoid writing a book about it.

As they neared the Smokies I was really glad to see that they weren't manufacturing nearly as much drama. It makes their hiking videos much more palatable. The kids are doing great from what I saw.

They need to eat more food. You can tell the parents are losing weight already even though they are only averaging 8mpd including their zeroes every 3-4 days. We don't see everything that they eat, but I would be willing to bet that they should be eating 2-3 times as much as they are now on trail. Combine this with the incoming warm weather and zero days being further spread out and energy levels are going to crash.

In the Smokies it was good to see that they avoided the worst of the weather and were fine all things considered. I'd take the weather they were hiking in over cold rain every single time.

It is terrible that someone called CPS on them. Nobody should have felt the need to insert themselves in their situation in that way. I've said it before that I think it is crazy to take a 2 year old out on the trail starting in early March. I also thought it was unfortunate how the father handled the situation with their youngest child's discomfort which led to the flicking in the mouth incident. They ignored their better judgement a lot in the first week. But can anyone in all honesty watch these videos and say that these parents don't love their kids? In my eyes their children appear to be well loved and receive more parenting than a large percentage of today's youth.

In the final videos he basically calls us out here at whiteblaze. I would have completely respected if he just would of came out and told the people that don't agree they could F*** off and leave it at that. I actually agree with many of the principles and philosophies that the family tries to instill in their kids. Unfortunately the father has all the charm of a used car salesman. If he didn't actually care what people thought he wouldn't of made of one of their longest videos about how much he doesn't care. The video only served to remind me of how narcissistic and hypocritical he is. If you are familiar with personality types there is a lot to be gleaned from almost everything he says.

But I digress. I wouldn't of likely addressed the last video if they hadn't made it about our discussion here in the forum.

I still wish the family the best.

lonehiker
04-13-2018, 14:06
I haven't watched any vids since 9 or there abouts. But the discussion on WB has been idiotic to put it quite simply.

pixielauren
04-14-2018, 11:03
What I'm saying is that they left Double Spring Gap shelter yesterday morning, March 21st, they walked through the snow the 2 to 3 miles to Clingmans Dome, were evacuated by the Forest Service and were already posting videos by 1:00 PM. They sure didn't waste any time to get back online.

So, you're going to retract this lie, right?

And apologize for lying about this family?

And do some self-reflecting so that you stop spreading lies in the future?

Mugthumper
04-14-2018, 15:23
So, you're going to retract this lie, right?

And apologize for lying about this family?

And do some self-reflecting so that you stop spreading lies in the future?

It was established over three weeks ago that the information provided by the individual on trail journals was incorrect. I am just as glad now as I was then that the reports turned out to be false. If you want to pick out a single post without reading pages of other posts feel free to do so but a few of us were trying to establish a timeline based on the information available at the time. It is easy to see that I left the word 'if' out between the words "they left Double Spring Gap" it makes a lot more sense as we were trying to figure out where and when they would of been at certain places for everything to be true. Read the post I made 24 minutes before the one you just quotes where I say "if the timeline is right". Nobody here knew anything for certain at that time including myself.

I'll admit that assumptions were made based on the available information and I'm glad my assumptions made from said information was incorrect. I still think they were foolish for beginning their hike when the did, although I don't believe them to be idiots anymore either.

I still wish them the best of luck.

If creating your account to ask me these questions made you feel better, well I hope it did.

Carl7
04-14-2018, 16:43
Now that we know more about their efforts, wow!. How many of us have had success with a group of 8 over this distance. How many of us are perfect parents? I wish my kids were part of this hike.

WTX2WY
04-15-2018, 00:05
What an awesome family.

Most of their peers are sitting in cubicles or eating tide pods and sexting their friends or staring at screens all day long or pooping themselves.

The kids are probably in better conditions (in terms of food, shelter, family, and safety) than kids in most 3rd world countries and many inner cities and trailer parks in America.

The lessons learned and confidence gained are going to stay with these kids for life.

Hope they make it to Katahdin just to piss off all the armchair backpackers and psychologists. :p

Poppins
04-15-2018, 18:02
Poncho Hiker - When I say "interfere" with another's experience, I'm talking about not allowing our kids/grandkids from annoying others; i.e. running through someone's campsite, being loud or rude (especially after dark), etc. It's pretty obvious when your kids are bothering someone else. With adults you would hope they would realize when they "cross the line" but with kids, who are just starting out, it may not be so obvious to them. As the "adult" I think it's up to me to be sure my kid/grandkid doesn't cross that line and become a nuisance to others who might be out there as well.

For what it's worth, I would hope this is a two way street. I keep my kids/grandkids out of your hair and you do the same with us. Is that really too much to ask?

That's all for now. Take care and until next time....be well.



snapper

I'm sure that these kids are less annoying or intrusive than all of the 21 yr old kids bringing their guitars and playing them thinking that we all want to listen to them.

rocketsocks
04-15-2018, 19:34
I'm sure that these kids are less annoying or intrusive than all of the 21 yr old kids bringing their guitars and playing them thinking that we all want to listen to them.this ^^^^^^^

BowGal
04-15-2018, 20:13
I’ve just started watching the videos to see what the hubbub was about. And I’ve read a lot of the comments on YouTube and on WB.
What I’ve gleaned thus far is that I am super jealous of this family doing something together like hiking the AT. Sadly, I never grew up enjoying the outdoors, nor was I encouraged to hike. It was only until later five years did I discover a passion for all things outdoors: backpacking, hiking, fishing and hunting. I may have missed out on a few decades of outdoor fun, but I’m sure going to make up for it. I’m currently training and prepping for a 2019 NOBO attempt.
Second thing I get from the comments, is that I’m sure a good percentage of those comments are from people who don’t even hike. They’re quick to point out the family are attention seekers. Maybe they are, maybe they aren’t.

Anyhow, I wish this family well. At least they’re trying which is more than I can say for people who hide behind their computers passing judgement.

Elaikases
04-15-2018, 20:16
This thread has surpassed the number of posts the Quinn family thread received last year. They are the family that did a successful flip-flop thru with a baby. That thread only had 163 posts. Many on WB said they wouldn't finish.

Glad they succeeded.

;)

Elaikases
04-15-2018, 20:17
So, you're going to retract this lie, right?

And apologize for lying about this family?

And do some self-reflecting so that you stop spreading lies in the future?

Only one post, and this was it?

two bad
04-17-2018, 10:52
400+ miles is in. Helluva stunt...

two bad
04-17-2018, 10:57
This family is the real deal. If you have checked out previous history of their vlogs you would find that they have run multiple marathons as well as long distance backpacking trips. Very interesting alternative parenting. They are currently 400+ miles in. Will they make it? Who knows, but few do. Already winners in my book.

Last Call
04-18-2018, 18:18
Just wondering if this will be the only record setting stunt on the AT for 2018?

stumpknocker
04-25-2018, 21:01
I decided to take action and sent an email to GSMNP with a link to their Youtube channel. I stated that I had no firsthand knowledge but thought they should check up on them. I did not do this lightly. Probably some people would question my judgement in my on outdoors activities with my kids when they were young. Still, it had to be done. Now I can sleep soundly.

Some people can sure cause a lot of trouble by having "no firsthand knowledge".
Appalachian Trail: Child Protective Services [MESSAGE FROM THE KIDS] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyKp1Gjia_M)

Feral Bill
04-25-2018, 23:00
Some people can sure cause a lot of trouble by having "no firsthand knowledge".
Appalachian Trail: Child Protective Services [MESSAGE FROM THE KIDS] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyKp1Gjia_M) Some people report reasonable suspicions and trust the authorities to sort it out. I stand by my actions.

rdljr
04-26-2018, 05:21
If the video had been taken in NH any required reporter (teacher Doctor scoutmaster little league coach) would have had to report it to the authorities.

Malto
04-26-2018, 05:49
This is a terrible thing that this family is doing. The kids should be overdosing on Facebook and getting fat watching Desperate housewives.

T.S.Kobzol
04-26-2018, 07:43
There is a lot of 'convenient oversight' and 'reckless dilution of facts' along with misdirection. Many have expressed opinions about the teenage kids, those who are able to express their opinion.

The crucial focus, however, is and should have been the toddler. The toddler can not speak his opinion, the toddler did get flicked in the mouth until he started bleeding, the toddler did have windburned freeze on his face, the toddler WAS stuck in a seat during freezing temperatures, the toddler is unable to move freely when he is awake and in the child carrier.

It is less crucial now after the freezing weather gave way to warmer season but what happened can not be undone.

FreeGoldRush
04-26-2018, 07:49
Some people report reasonable suspicions and trust the authorities to sort it out. I stand by my actions.

it didn't work. Have you watched the video? This whole incident scared the kids quite a bit and created a lot of stress for the entire family.

rocketsocks
04-26-2018, 09:00
There is a lot of 'convenient oversight' and 'reckless dilution of facts' along with misdirection. Many have expressed opinions about the teenage kids, those who are able to express their opinion.

The crucial focus, however, is and should have been the toddler. The toddler can not speak his opinion, the toddler did get flicked in the mouth until he started bleeding, the toddler did have windburned freeze on his face, the toddler WAS stuck in a seat during freezing temperatures, the toddler is unable to move freely when he is awake and in the child carrier.

It is less crucial now after the freezing weather gave way to warmer season but what happened can not be undone.
This ^^^^^

the whole thing starts with the parents, if ya don’t want the attention then maybe don’t posts videos of you stating that you flick your kid in the mouth for being frustrated...unless your aim is to get hits on your video, and if that’s the case then by all means why not bear bag em by mistake only to realize he’s not at the dinner table.

Alligator
04-26-2018, 10:38
it didn't work. Have you watched the video? This whole incident scared the kids quite a bit and created a lot of stress for the entire family.Blame the Dad, he shouldn't have done it and published it. Getting flicked in the face from your caregiver when you are a toddler and barely understand the world is pretty stressful too.

Now lay off Bill folks.

Gambit McCrae
04-26-2018, 10:54
Some people report reasonable suspicions and trust the authorities to sort it out. I stand by my actions.

I stand behind you too. Nothing wrong with reporting something, if all turns out okay then no harm done. Its not like a wellness check from CPS was devastating to their lives. May have been a good wake up call to Dad to not be flicking his kids in the face.

stephanD
04-26-2018, 11:31
Abuse happens when "good" people turn a blind eye. Somebody suspected abuse and reported to the authorities. The authorities investigated. The suspicions were not substantiated. The family was let go. End of story.

TexasBob
04-26-2018, 11:46
Some people can sure cause a lot of trouble by having "no firsthand knowledge".
Appalachian Trail: Child Protective Services [MESSAGE FROM THE KIDS] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyKp1Gjia_M)

They put their lives on YouTube to get attention. They got some attention they didn't want. That happens when you put your life on public display. Bill did nothing wrong.

schmibitar
04-26-2018, 13:16
Where was everyone's pearl clutching when Kanga and Sherpa hiked last year with Roo? Get the **** outta here.

They've made it past the 1/4 mark. If they want to finish, they'll finish barring injury.

Mugthumper
04-26-2018, 13:27
I stopped giving them clicks about 2 weeks ago.

I think some people are making incorrect assumptions about Bill. He stated that he sent an email alerting the GSMNP to the families presence during a winter storm and provided them with a link to their YT videos. Nothing more. Nothing less. There was legit reason to be concerned for the family at that time and he made a judgement call.

Yesterday I stumbled upon another forum that also has a running discussion about the Crawfords. They call it the Crawford Trailwreck. They start a new thread every few days when new videos are uploaded and the discussion has been very active and the comments brutal. They have brought up the topic of abuse and CPS quite often over there since the beginning of the Crawford's hike. The father Ben is aware of this as he created an account and tried to partake in the discussion. Lets just say he didn't participate in the discussion for very long.

Mugthumper
04-26-2018, 16:18
Where was everyone's pearl clutching when Kanga and Sherpa hiked last year with Roo? Get the **** outta here.

They've made it past the 1/4 mark. If they want to finish, they'll finish barring injury.

This has already been discussed previously. Bottom line, they were knowledgeable and well prepared and left weeks after the Crawfords.

If you have watched the Crawford family's videos of their first couple weeks on trail you will clearly see the difference between the two families.

The father of the Crawford family talks about how he feels about putting his family in dangerous and uncomfortable situations. You can go watch his videos if you like, I can't quote him directly as I am not watching their videos any longer. But he talks about how safety for his children is not his top priority. These are his words, not mine.

If you would like to know how Kanga and Sherpa feels about the hiking in the trail in this situation, I present this to you. From their feed.

---------------

thedirtbagbaby (https://www.instagram.com/thedirtbagbaby/)I’m making a confession: we got off the trail every time there was forecasted extreme weather(snow, ice, high winds, flooding, etc).

Whew, I said it.

Just because we were thru hikers didn’t give us an excuse to have a lack of judgement as Ellie’s parents. Our first priority was Ellie’s safety.

But how do you balance high adventure parenting without being a helicopter parent? It’s such a grey area.

It was about this time last year when we hopped off trail before a storm rolled in at Grayson Highlands State Park. The forecasted temps were in the teens, snow and ice accumulation, and wind gusts of 70 miles an hour. It was a no brainer to get off the trail, regardless of what fellow thru hikers were doing. While Derrick and I could walk to keep warm, Ellie wouldn’t have been able to generate enough heat to stay comfortable.

While there is growth in suffering through harsh weather as an adult(or even older child/teenager), it was unnatural to allow my baby to suffer.

I DO believe it’s good to take babies outside in the winter with proper clothing.

I DO believe uncomfortable circumstances creates a flexible human being.

I DO believe we were created to spend a large majority of life outdoors.

I DO believe we should utilize modern technology to track weather forecasts when taking someone so vulnerable in the backcountry (we may have been overly obsessed with checking the weather!)

I DO believe you should have a lengthy resume of backcountry experience before taking a little one out on an extended trip, including training and certifications like Wilderness First Responder.

Knowing when to get off trail isn’t a sign of weakness or lack of courage, rather it is a sign of experience, wisdom, and good judgment skills.

---------------------------------


That is copied from their IG acct.

It figured that this was the best example I could give of how their philosophies about family safety differentiates on trail.

kestral
04-26-2018, 16:37
The difference between the families is night and day. I hope they have a successful hike with no harm done.

stephanD
04-26-2018, 17:04
They put their lives on YouTube to get attention. They got some attention they didn't want. That happens when you put your life on public display. Bill did nothing wrong.

If you don't want to get wet, don't go into the water (Confucius).

BuckeyeBill
04-26-2018, 18:49
I stand with on the side of Bill as well. Better to act and not have any criminal act or abuse than not act and have something more serious happen.

stephanD
04-27-2018, 10:46
Their videos suffer (my opinion) from all AT YouTube videos out there. After the novelty fades, they become repetitive. After all, what is it that we do? Walk. Eat. Sleep. Repeat (and take a dump in between). The journey is inward. The trail is the means.

rocketsocks
04-27-2018, 11:06
Their videos suffer (my opinion) from all AT YouTube videos out there. After the novelty fades, they become repetitive. After all, what is it that we do? Walk. Eat. Sleep. Repeat (and take a dump in between). The journey is inward. The trail is the means.this ^^^^^^

imscotty
04-29-2018, 20:40
I hesitate to bring this discussion back to life but since the family of eights most recent video is somewhat directed to posters on here, I thought it should be shared.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyKp1Gjia_M

My thoughts on all this...
I think these kids are great, and I credit the parents for raising such wonderful kids. Hats off for taking them on this hike and providing an experience that will stimulate them, challenge them and hopefully help them grow to be responsible adults. You are justly proud of them.

That said, I have no criticism of anyone who asked CPS to check in on your family based on concerns raised about the 2 year old in the previous videos. The parents need to get on this side of their camera and see what their audience sees and understand that there was something of concern presented in them that warranted checking out. Too often society looks away from abuse of the venerable and there have been tragedies because of that. Your analysis of the situation I think lacks some self awareness and a lack of understanding about the motivations of those that were concerned.

Anyway, glad to hear you are all doing well and wish your family the best on your hike. My suggestion would be to put this episode behind you and just let your children be your family's ambassadors. Happy Trails.

TexasBob
04-29-2018, 21:17
I hesitate to bring this discussion back to life but since the family of eights most recent video is somewhat directed to posters on here, I thought it should be shared.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyKp1Gjia_ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyKp1Gjia_M)

First of their videos I have watched and I had to stop when the Dad started whining about how this CPS episode had shaken his faith in humanity. Get a grip and start being a grownup and quit exploiting your children for your own selfish benefit. That is not what parents are supposed to do.

Uncle Joe
04-29-2018, 23:03
CPS shouldn’t have been called at all. #freedomfirst. Calling them was a selfish act, regardless of how “concerned” they convinced themselves they were.

MuddyWaters
04-29-2018, 23:13
CPS shouldn’t have been called at all. #freedomfirst. Calling them was a selfish act, regardless of how “concerned” they convinced themselves they were.
Bunch of busy bodies.

But then again if you're stupid enough to film yourself popping your kid in the mouth and making them bleed and then put it on YouTube you deserve what you get.

TexasBob
05-01-2018, 20:23
CPS shouldn’t have been called at all. #freedomfirst. Calling them was a selfish act, regardless of how “concerned” they convinced themselves they were.

So I see one of their teen age daughters walking down the street and being followed by a creepy guy in a van. Nothing has happened and nobody is hurt yet but I am calling the cops. Is that selfish? You think her Dad is going to lose his faith in humanity because I was concerned about his daughter's welfare?

Uncle Joe
05-01-2018, 23:51
So I see one of their teen age daughters walking down the street and being followed by a creepy guy in a van. Nothing has happened and nobody is hurt yet but I am calling the cops. Is that selfish? You think her Dad is going to lose his faith in humanity because I was concerned about his daughter's welfare?

I don’t believe the two are remotely equivalent.

TexasBob
05-02-2018, 10:15
I don’t believe the two are remotely equivalent.

In real life people were worried about the Dad being a danger and in the other scenario a stranger could be a danger. It is OK to call about a stranger but not the Dad? That was my point.