View Full Version : One bag or two?
Slo-go'en
03-20-2018, 12:33
Here's an interesting dilemma.
I'm getting nervous about what the weather in northern VA in late April, early May might be this season. Back in February it seemed like it was going to be an early spring, now it looks like it will be late. (I'll be SOBO from HF).
I'm thinking using my old 40 degree bag as I had been planning is going to be a mistake. I have two choices. I can take a 20 degree bag or add a second 40 degree bag.
If I take the 20 degree bag, I'm stuck with it. If I take 2 bags, I can send one home when it warms up. I can fit the two bags into the same stuff sack as the 20 degree bag so volume isn't an issue, but the package weighs 1 pound more then just the 20 degree bag.
The dilemma is, is it worth the extra pound initially to half the weight of the 20 degree bag later? My base weight is only 17.75 pounds with the double bag so I'm not at crazy base weight either way.
I guess I'll just have to make an executive decision when the time comes and we have a better idea what the weather might look like.
lonehiker
03-20-2018, 12:42
It is more than a month until late April...
Feral Bill
03-20-2018, 12:45
20 degree bag converts to a warm weather quilt when unzipped. Problem solved.
It is more than a month until late April...
this - the weather can/most likely will change significantly between now and then....
Slo-go'en
03-20-2018, 13:19
this - the weather can/most likely will change significantly between now and then....
Indeed, but in what way? I remember one hike I did through VA in May were it rained some 20 days out of 30. I'm hoping the weather will significantly improve in the next 4 weeks, but need to have contingency plans if it doesn't.
Looking at comparisons from an entire sleep system perspective rather than just bag(s) might make decisions clearer. Ponder what else you can tweak into the sleep system. You might find a 40* bag combined with greater under insulation, sleep clothes, heat packs, aluminixed mylar or polyester(emergency super cheap SUL space blanket, sleeping enclosed in a tent, higher fat % food choices, etc making one one accurately rated 40* bag at the core enough to get by in late April going forward.
This also a temp situation where a quilt can shine.
20 degree bag converts to a warm weather quilt when unzipped. Problem solved.
This is simple and yet addresses the goal by putting it more on the shoulders of the user rather than seeing gear as the only way to get to the goal. This utilizes what gear one already has. Sometimes, we overthink these things.
lonehiker
03-20-2018, 13:40
This is simple and yet addresses the goal by putting it more on the shoulders of the user rather than seeing gear as the only way to get to the goal. This utilizes what gear one already has. Sometimes, we overthink these things.
I think you need to read what you wrote in post #6.
Sarcasm the elf
03-20-2018, 14:25
To paraphrase a friend who was making fun of me “Dave, why is it that you spent all that time and money getting good cold weather gear, yet you constantly get yourself in trouble by ignoring your good gear and instead bringing the most marginal gear you can get away with on trips?”
@Lonehiker Providing options. Not overly complex suggesting changing out out pads one might already have or sleeping in clothes one might normally have or grabbing some chem heat packets or buttoning up the tent or taking along some fattier food for a few variable colder nights...is it? Easier maybe doing that than reading about doing that. In considering the reply to the asked question I was guessing volume and wt played into consideration as both were mentioned by the OP too. These alternatives take that into account.
20 degree bag converts to a warm weather quilt when unzipped. Problem solved.
What he said. You'll want the 20 degree bag (I've had snow fall on me in Norther VA the second week of May). Open it up when warmer.
Puddlefish
03-21-2018, 17:04
If you have someone at home, who can retrieve your spare 40 degree bag from the mail, couldn't you just start with the 20 degree bag, and have them mail you the 40 degree bag? At which point you can mail back the 20 degree bag?
Slo-go'en
03-21-2018, 18:10
If you have someone at home, who can retrieve your spare 40 degree bag from the mail, couldn't you just start with the 20 degree bag, and have them mail you the 40 degree bag? At which point you can mail back the 20 degree bag?
No one at home, but close by. It's easier for me to send something back then to receive it on the trail. I'm only out for 4-6 weeks too, however long it takes to get from one end of VA to the other.
I normally do all the things Dogwood mentions. Tent, base layers, liner, etc. Which is fine unless it has to be done every day for a couple of weeks.Plus I really don't want to buy anything new or put too much wear on the 20 degree bag which I want to save for fall hikes.
Using the second bag which I already have adds nearly 2 pounds, but I could scale back on the weight of cloths some.
Which way I go will depend on what the weather is looking like towards the middle of April. I need to make my decision by April 10th, as I need to make a side trip to Florida first. Chances are I'll do what I always do and skimp a little on warmth and just suffer on the bad days.
You've been around the block.
"I normally do all the things that (other someone) mentions. Tent, base layers, liner, etc. Which is fine unless it has to be done every day for a couple of weeks.Plus I really don't want to buy anything new..."
Same here.
"Which way I go will depend on what the weather is looking like towards the middle of April. I need to make my decision by April 10th, as I need to make a side trip to Florida first."
Good approach. It's like Lonehiker said...
"Chances are I'll do what I always do and skimp a little on warmth and just suffer on the bad days."
Maybe you don't need to suffer(as much) if you choose May instead of April and....:
Warning: Geek stuff ahead.
Overlay the VA AT elevation profile correlating it with possible CS's at lower elevation. May even want to opt for going SOBO.
Here look at it: http://www.appalachiantrail.org/images/default-source/explore-the-trail/explore-by-state/virginia/va-elevation-map.jpg?sfvrsn=b5b5b6a0_4 If you overlay an averaged slope of AT VA elevation between the southern and northern VA state borders the elevation tends from lower elev to higher elev going SOBO. Might not be enough difference to offset the weather affects from a higher longitude though going SOBO.
Slo-go'en
03-21-2018, 22:43
I'm locked into the 19th this year due to where my dad's b-day lands in the week. Starting a week later would make me less nervous.
I'll be going SOBO from Harpers Ferry. That way I can take the train to HF from Florida, then take the bus home from Marion.
I just bought a travel pillow and blanket for the bus/train rides. I was going to abandon these when I got to HF, but I think I might keep them and use the blanket as the bag supplement. I think that will be a worth while experiment.
ZiggySours
03-21-2018, 23:03
So what if you took the 40 degree bag and then got a sleeping bag liner and made it a 20 when u needed it and then when it got to hot ditch the bag and just rock the liner
So what if you took the 40 degree bag and then got a sleeping bag liner and made it a 20 when u needed it and then when it got to hot ditch the bag and just rock the liner
A liner that would turn a 40 degree bag into a 20 degree bag is called a Western Mountaineering Alpinlite.
No liner adds 20 degrees to the rating of a sleeping bag. Nor will they be comfortable to sleep under alone. Another lesson I learned the hard way.
Wayne
I'm a neubie- only a single week on the southern PA AT but when I asked the same question here - two 45* SnugPak Desert bags or one something else. The replies were nearly unanimous for a single bag. I was a bit skeptical but I think after a week of use it was good advice- my choice was a Nemo Disco 30 btw. In my case since I already had the two SnugPaks it was hard to part with the coin given I'm not likely to spend much time using the Nemo at its lower rating(which seems accurate btw)
DuneElliot
03-25-2018, 16:08
Here's a thought. Start with the 20* bag. Before you leave mail the 40* bag ahead of you a couple of weeks. When you pick up the 40* bag you'll have a box ready to ship the 20* bag home.
I have to comment that its really encouraging(I'm being serious) to see a 9K post, 10 year member ask such a basic(to experienced hikers) question. Says a lot about the quality of information here. So many forums today are populated by opinionated but not experienced(by that I mean for example saying something is the "best" when it is the only one you have experience with)people who will gladly spend 'your' money to reinforce THEIR choice.
Since slo-goen is from NH, it makes sense to ask what the weather will be like in VA three weeks from now. Knowing me, I'd tend towards a 20* bag myself, but it's good to get confirmation. Things are different south of the Mason Dixon line, so I've heard.
Slo-go'en
03-25-2018, 18:16
In the end I decided on just the travel blanket. I think it will give me the little extra warmth I might need early on.
It's kind of multi use, can use it in the sleeping bag or wrapped around the shoulders while sitting around and is only marginally heavier then a silk liner. Finally, it's something I wouldn't mind leaving behind in a hiker box should I no longer need it. The down side is the bulk, but it's half that of a second sleeping bag and not a lot more bulk then a COCOON coolmax Travel Sheet.
I might still carry the silk liner. If it gets really hot, I can send the sleeping bag home and just use the liner and blanket.
If we were going into fall instead of summer, the two bags would make more sense. I think a good system would be a 40 degree mummy bag and a 40 degree quit.
I'll let you know if I made a wise choice or not in a few months :)
Gabigabs
03-27-2018, 22:45
You might also consider looking into a liner. They can add up significant warmth and weight less than a second sleeping bag. They also can be easily washed when you are in town which keeps your bag clean.
Another Kevin
03-28-2018, 08:38
20 degree bag converts to a warm weather quilt when unzipped. Problem solved.
This. I don't even own a 40-degree bag. Considering where he lives, I'm a little surprised that Slo does.
Slo-go'en
03-28-2018, 09:36
This. I don't even own a 40-degree bag. Considering where he lives, I'm a little surprised that Slo does.
Because I get the heck out of NH for mud season and go hiking in the south. A 40* bag + liner is generally all I need.
With it being such a cold start to spring, I was a bit concerned that combo wouldn't be quite enough for the early part of the trip. Before getting a 20 degree bag for the fall, I've used the double bag trick with good results.
Another Kevin
03-28-2018, 12:50
Because I get the heck out of NH for mud season and go hiking in the south. A 40* bag + liner is generally all I need.
With it being such a cold start to spring, I was a bit concerned that combo wouldn't be quite enough for the early part of the trip. Before getting a 20 degree bag for the fall, I've used the double bag trick with good results.
I guess it depends on how you got started. I started with the 20° bag, because I wanted a three-season capability. I seem to do most of my hiking in "shoulder season".
I go with that bag even in high summer. If I need to, I can unzip it all the way and use it as a quilt, or even just sleep minimally clothed on top of it. A few years ago, I added a 0° bag, which I've pushed a little beyond its rating by using many of the tricks that people here have mentioned. I've never been able to justify the price of a summer-only bag to myself, even though it would save maybe half a pound in season. (In fact, if I were to be adding a third bag to my collection at this point, it would likely be one for deep winter. I envy Lou his pile of dead geese.)
Then again, I have the advantage of being able to go in two directions to hike. By the time the mud season is well underway in the Adirondacks, the trails have usually firmed up nicely in the Shawangunks and Catskills. So I've been able to resist the pull to go to the South for hiking. So far. ;)
Right now it's cabin fever season. Mud and patchy snow down here in the valley, a slushy mess up in the peaks (down from about a seven-foot snowpack after the Four'Easter). And I'm way too busy to travel anywhere. Oh well, I noticed the first crocuses this morning so spring might actually come one of these weeks.
Slo-go'en
05-22-2018, 09:46
I'll let you know if I made a wise choice or not in a few months :)
Here's my update.
I hit the trail in Harpers Ferry SOBO April 19th. My final choice was a 40 degree down bag and silk liner. I traveled with the fleece travel blanket, but I really didn't have enough room in the pack to carry it on the trail, so I gave it to a homeless guy at the DC train station. He put it to immediate use.
The 40 bag and liner was fine most of the time (plus top and bottom base layers). Once into the SNP it became marginal for a few nights and woefully inadequate one night when we had strong winds blowing right into the shelter and the temp dropped to 25 degrees. Wind chill was probably in the single digits. I had on every piece of clothing I had and still didn't get much sleep. Thankfully that was only a one night event and a few days later it was in the 80's!
By the time I got to Waynesboro, it seemed like summer was there to stay so I sent my cold weather base layers and synthetic vest home. Mostly to make room in my pack, which was packed really tight (45L + 5L expansion sleeve).
By the time I got to Daleville last week, it been really, really hot - 90's every day. Hadn't really used my sleeping bag for a week. So, I decided to send my bag home - along with my rain jacket - and switch to just the silk liner + fleece blanket and switch to a poncho for rain gear since the forecast was for afternoon thunderstorms.
Well, that turned out to be a big mistake. I jumped the gun on making that switch out by at least a week. The only fleece blanket I could find was a thin "throw" which didn't completely cover me. The afternoon thunderstorms turned into more of a steady all night rain. I spent a miserable night at the Lamberts meadow shelter, looked at the weather forecast and saw it wasn't going to get any better anytime soon, so I turned around, went back to Daleville and started home.
cmoulder
05-22-2018, 11:22
Bummer! Sorry to hear about that. :o
I have a really low base weight but would never consider going without my quilt any time of year. It is one key element of safety. Does a 40deg quilt really weigh that much?
Slo-go'en
05-22-2018, 13:37
I have a really low base weight but would never consider going without my quilt any time of year. It is one key element of safety. Does a 40deg quilt really weigh that much?
I don't know, my 40* mummy bag weighs about 1.5 pounds. The fleece throw is only 11 oz. If all that stormy weather hadn't moved in - and lingered - I would have been fine. Lesson learned, the middle of May is still too early to swap out to a hot weather sleep system.
Oh well, I was on the fence about ending at Daleville anyway. Besides the heat, the trail was getting really busy and knew it would get worse once Trail Days let out Sunday. The last week going into Daleville I was passing up to 40 hikers a day.
The last week going into Daleville I was passing up to 40 hikers a day.
couldnt pay me to do a hike against the grain of the bubble like that.
hiking in the same direction as them you can sort of find a spot in between them and make them more or less disappear. going against the traffic though? no way.
To paraphrase a friend who was making fun of me “Dave, why is it that you spent all that time and money getting good cold weather gear, yet you constantly get yourself in trouble by ignoring your good gear and instead bringing the most marginal gear you can get away with on trips?”
This is why my summer base weight is going up as I hike NH & ME this summer. I hate the extra weight for long sleeves and pants, but it beats freezing and regretting. :)
Because I get the heck out of NH for mud season and go hiking in the south. A 40* bag + liner is generally all I need.
With it being such a cold start to spring, I was a bit concerned that combo wouldn't be quite enough for the early part of the trip. Before getting a 20 degree bag for the fall, I've used the double bag trick with good results.
When does NH Mud Season End?
Starting NOBO from Glencliff on June 9th, and hoping it is close to over.
Slo-go'en
05-22-2018, 19:59
When does NH Mud Season End?
Starting NOBO from Glencliff on June 9th, and hoping it is close to over.
Most of the AT through NH is on bed rock. There are however boggy areas, mostly in cols along the ridge, which will stay wet well into summer. Currently streams are running high and that means high water routes in the gaps and any ponds the trail skirts could be very wet. It kind of looks like this is going to end up being a very wet early summer, with yet another tropical system ready to move more rain our way next week. Plan on being cold and wet and hope that your not.
This is why my summer base weight is going up as I hike NH & ME this summer. I hate the extra weight for long sleeves and pants, but it beats freezing and regretting. :)
Last year on July 6th, I ran into a driving sleet storm on Mt. Success (mile 1901) in southern Maine. Glad I had my extra gear, gloves, rain pants, thermals.
Don’t underestimate New Hampshire and Maine weather.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Slo-go'en and Deacon, thanks for the advice!