View Full Version : Short But Enlightening Experience.
My time on the AT was laughably brief. Approach Trail on Wednesday, off trail today.
I have a few long nagging physical condition/injuries that I've been long overcome by learning to live with them.
The AT shattered all illusions of sheer will being up to the challenge. For the first time in my life I was completely defeated. My legs could barely flex for most of the time going uphill. A part of my lower back where I tore a muscle was set off for the first time since recovery. I could actually feel the scar tissue when the muscle moved.
Two falls shook everything up. One on ice going down Springer and slipping as I prepared to cross a small stream just past Hawk. Went down sideways and slammed into a log.
After that moment there was no way my mind could force my body to power through as usual. My knees were almost nonfunctional.
At Horse gap i got off trail down the road with another small group and they zoomed ahead and disappeared. Eventually I made my way to Cooper and after a hassle with shuttlers, proceeded down the wrong road but hitched a ride out with some soldiers.
Yet through all this is didn't feel dismay. After a while I began to carefully feel and note everything to describe to a doctor. For the first time in my adult life I'm getting surgery and get fixed up proper. All of it is solely to go back to the trail.
These were some beautifully brief days. The trail seems indescribable. The people were amazing, hope to see them all make it.
It's only a few hours off and I miss it so.
PS- My gear worked well. I picked up a lot from Steep and Cheap. Only real thing I did totally wrong was my footgear.
If anything, I'll answer to something in this thread. Other than that I'm strictly lurking until it's time to go up trail again.
fastfoxengineering
03-23-2018, 22:17
You gained a new direction in your life which is positive.
You tried. Nobody can fault you for trying.
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You ventured, you gained :-)
Thank you for sharing your new adventure. We look forward to your next report.
Don't give up. We all have setbacks. I have had many. It takes some time to really understand your body and your gear. No amount of reading or talking to people is going to teach that to you. It is trial and error. Keep your head up.
saltysack
03-24-2018, 09:22
You made it farther than me this trip....I didn’t even hit the dirt!!! My damn Taco broke down on I95 @ 4:30 this morning in route to do a section hike out of Erwin.......sitting in a dealership in Brunswick, Ga...always next time...get in shape and give it another go....
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its always amazing to me that so many people who, seemingly, have little to no backpacking experience attempt to thru hike. i would never even consider such a thing, for better or worse. its even more stunning to me that so many people do this and are actually successful.
when you get back out there, and hopefully stay back out there awhile, i'd be curious how your perspective on this short trip changes.
Puddlefish
03-24-2018, 10:07
I used to believe in pure will being enough, when I was young, healthy, muscular and had perfect balance. No pain, no gain, and all that silliness is what caused me to injure both knees by the time I was 21. Every step since then has been painful.
I can manage to hike, only if I take the time to build up the muscles supporting the knee structure in advance. There's a lot of prep and maintenance involved for me. I also developed heel spurs recently that are painful, so every morning I hike starts with a half hour of stretching. I made it 600 miles on my thru attempt before a partial tear of my ICL drove me off the trail.
There are a bunch of people on this forum who will talk about lack of will being some sort of moral failing, and they seem to believe that's the only reason people wimp out of completing their thru hikes. Ignore them. Several of them have slunk back in and admitted various reasons their thru attempt failed. Suspiciously absent from their reasoning was their lack of will.
Keep hiking, put together a bunch of day hikes, a whole lot of neighborhood walking, some exercise/therapy to address your specific health concerns, and eventually you can reward yourself with at least a section hike of the AT.
FranklinBeans
03-24-2018, 10:27
its always amazing to me that so many people who, seemingly, have little to no backpacking experience attempt to thru hike. i would never even consider such a thing, for better or worse. its even more stunning to me that so many people do this and are actually successful.
when you get back out there, and hopefully stay back out there awhile, i'd be curious how your perspective on this short trip changes.
well, maybe that's the clue...lots of folks do succeed. it's one of the few gargantuan physical undertakings that you can completely tailor to your own physical capacity, and that you can get in shape for while you're actually doing it. I don't find it particularly shocking that n00bs pull it off.
Slo-go'en
03-24-2018, 10:35
Well, El JP's experience illustrates the importance of doing shake down hikes. Not only to get familiar with gear, but to see if your body is up to the task.
It also illustrates the importance of being in good physical shape when you start. It might be "just walking", but it's strenuous walking with upwards of 30 pounds on your back. This something a lot of people haven't done much of (or any) before they start a thru hike. The "I'll just start slow and get in shape along the way" approach really doesn't work very well and is why people have injuries early on.
It's one thing if your young, but getting into shape prior to the hike gets more and more important for older hikers, especially if you have physical or medical issues to deal with too.
FranklinBeans
03-24-2018, 11:26
Well, El JP's experience illustrates the importance of doing shake down hikes. Not only to get familiar with gear, but to see if your body is up to the task.
It also illustrates the importance of being in good physical shape when you start. It might be "just walking", but it's strenuous walking with upwards of 30 pounds on your back. This something a lot of people haven't done much of (or any) before they start a thru hike. The "I'll just start slow and get in shape along the way" approach really doesn't work very well and is why people have injuries early on.
It's one thing if your young, but getting into shape prior to the hike gets more and more important for older hikers, especially if you have physical or medical issues to deal with too.
No argument there. I hope OP is able to get his medical issues addressed and get back to the trail ASAP. Good luck OP! I hurt my back at work some 18 years ago (blew out a disc) and things were never quite the same since. I don't have a day ever where I don't experience some degree of pain. The most important thing for me is a pack that fits well, transfers weight well, and taking it exactly as slow as I need to.
well, maybe that's the clue...lots of folks do succeed. it's one of the few gargantuan physical undertakings that you can completely tailor to your own physical capacity, and that you can get in shape for while you're actually doing it. I don't find it particularly shocking that n00bs pull it off.
i think my point may be more about making such a huge commitment to something you arent even sure youre going to enjoy than it is about any physical limitations.
the thing that made me think it and write my response was the OP's comment about gear... how would you really know after 2 days? i think someone who starts off inexperienced really doesnt know what theyve gotten themselves into until.... 2 weeks? 2 months? i dont know, some sizable chunk of time later.
Slo-go'en
03-24-2018, 16:56
Well, he was pleased with his gear for the 2 days he used it, which is better then not being pleased after only 2 days :)
Although tdoczi is right, it's not until you've used your gear through a number of weather and trail situations that you know for sure.
BuckeyeBill
03-24-2018, 20:05
its always amazing to me that so many people who, seemingly, have little to no backpacking experience attempt to thru hike. i would never even consider such a thing, for better or worse. its even more stunning to me that so many people do this and are actually successful.
when you get back out there, and hopefully stay back out there awhile, i'd be curious how your perspective on this short trip changes.
I failed to see anything in the original post where it said he had little to no experience. We all started some where Many of us started out with smaller trails and then made the jump to longer trails, then thru-hikes. There is no application that needs to be filled out to be a thru-hiker. You can see it every year that thousands of people start out to thru-hike and drop out. Who are we to judge them? They did not ask us for money to buy gear or a plane ticket to Atlanta. If they don't complete it or drop out early it is no skin off my back. How often is it said on here that taking it easy early on, you will eventually get your trail legs. I believe too many people push themselves to hard too soon to not look like a wimp to their buddies or other hikers. I say the HE** with them, this is my adventure not theirs. I also failed to see where the OP did not do a gear shake down. What he did write the only thing that failed him were his shoes. How many of us have had to try different shoes to find the right ones that work for us?
Well, El JP's experience illustrates the importance of doing shake down hikes. Not only to get familiar with gear, but to see if your body is up to the task.
It also illustrates the importance of being in good physical shape when you start. It might be "just walking", but it's strenuous walking with upwards of 30 pounds on your back. This something a lot of people haven't done much of (or any) before they start a thru hike. The "I'll just start slow and get in shape along the way" approach really doesn't work very well and is why people have injuries early on.
It's one thing if your young, but getting into shape prior to the hike gets more and more important for older hikers, especially if you have physical or medical issues to deal with too.
I kind of agree that being in the best shape possible definitely helps. But short of having access to a 50 story building and climbing the fire stairs regularly, nothing can compete with the approach trail stairs. They are a hip, knee and ankle killer to any hiker. Maybe if the OP had skipped that part he may have had better luck. Age has nothing to do with it. Just ask the 82 year old hiker that recently did a thru-hike or the blind fellow that did the same. Yes he fell a lot, but he was never deterred. I have also seen older hikers who were in much better shape than hikers much younger than they are. For us, we may creek and crack more, but we have learned to stretch out while breakfast is cooking. We also know when to stop, even if we haven't met our mileage quote for the day, because we can all agree that certain parts of the AT are harder than others.
i think my point may be more about making such a huge commitment to something you arent even sure youre going to enjoy than it is about any physical limitations.
the thing that made me think it and write my response was the OP's comment about gear... how would you really know after 2 days? i think someone who starts off inexperienced really doesnt know what theyve gotten themselves into until.... 2 weeks? 2 months? i dont know, some sizable chunk of time later.
As I said earlier, there was no mention of not doing shakedown hikes. I would like to know how many miles someone has to have under their belt before they are "Experienced" or "What they've gotten themselves into"? You even admit you don't know. Like I said earlier, his gear seemed to be fine except for his shoes. Inquiring minds want to know.
I failed to see anything in the original post where it said he had little to no experience. We all started some where Many of us started out with smaller trails and then made the jump to longer trails, then thru-hikes. There is no application that needs to be filled out to be a thru-hiker. You can see it every year that thousands of people start out to thru-hike and drop out. Who are we to judge them? They did not ask us for money to buy gear or a plane ticket to Atlanta. If they don't complete it or drop out early it is no skin off my back. How often is it said on here that taking it easy early on, you will eventually get your trail legs. I believe too many people push themselves to hard too soon to not look like a wimp to their buddies or other hikers. I say the HE** with them, this is my adventure not theirs. I also failed to see where the OP did not do a gear shake down. What he did write the only thing that failed him were his shoes. How many of us have had to try different shoes to find the right ones that work for us?
I kind of agree that being in the best shape possible definitely helps. But short of having access to a 50 story building and climbing the fire stairs regularly, nothing can compete with the approach trail stairs. They are a hip, knee and ankle killer to any hiker. Maybe if the OP had skipped that part he may have had better luck. Age has nothing to do with it. Just ask the 82 year old hiker that recently did a thru-hike or the blind fellow that did the same. Yes he fell a lot, but he was never deterred. I have also seen older hikers who were in much better shape than hikers much younger than they are. For us, we may creek and crack more, but we have learned to stretch out while breakfast is cooking. We also know when to stop, even if we haven't met our mileage quote for the day, because we can all agree that certain parts of the AT are harder than others.
As I said earlier, there was no mention of not doing shakedown hikes. I would like to know how many miles someone has to have under their belt before they are "Experienced" or "What they've gotten themselves into"? You even admit you don't know. Like I said earlier, his gear seemed to be fine except for his shoes. Inquiring minds want to know.
it seemed pretty clear the OP at least had not attempted backpacking since whatever injures were suffered that came back and abruptly stopped the hike. maybe prior to these injuries there was more hiking, i dont know.
and my statement that i would never do what those who go from not hiking directly to attempting a thru was not intended as a criticism.
BuckeyeBill
03-24-2018, 20:52
it seemed pretty clear the OP at least had not attempted backpacking since whatever injures were suffered that came back and abruptly stopped the hike. maybe prior to these injuries there was more hiking, i dont know.
and my statement that i would never do what those who go from not hiking directly to attempting a thru was not intended as a criticism.
Your second statement I can accept, but when you say "It seemed pretty clear the OP at least had not attempted backpacking since whatever injures were suffered that came back and abruptly stopped the hike. Sorry I am not a lawyer, but a former law enforcement officer who heard many times in many court rooms, "Assumes facts not in evidence." You may be right and I may be wrong, but until such time I will agree to disagree.:)
Your second statement I can accept, but when you say "It seemed pretty clear the OP at least had not attempted backpacking since whatever injures were suffered that came back and abruptly stopped the hike. Sorry I am not a lawyer, but a former law enforcement officer who heard many times in many court rooms, "Assumes facts not in evidence." You may be right and I may be wrong, but until such time I will agree to disagree.:)
this isnt a court of law though. sure, if it were, i would make guesses like that. fortunately there isnt anything that large at stake here on an internet message board
BuckeyeBill
03-24-2018, 21:12
this isnt a court of law though. sure, if it were, i would make guesses like that. fortunately there isnt anything that large at stake here on an internet message board
No it is not a court of law, but you still made assumptions. I think the OP knew exactly what he was getting into and still has a burning desire to thru-hike when he heals after surgery. This is not a personal attack on you, but I think you were a little harsh on the OP because of those assumptions.
Elaikases
03-24-2018, 21:22
Yet through all this is didn't feel dismay. After a while I began to carefully feel and note everything to describe to a doctor. For the first time in my adult life I'm getting surgery and get fixed up proper. All of it is solely to go back to the trail
Good for you. Then with a little rehab, you will be ready to go.
Best wishes.
Ok, I better comment.
I have what is called "a rude good health " I've never really gone to gyms or anything similar but have gotten quite a workout over the years with various blue collar jobs and sports and within reason, (my knees ) casually solo powerlift items that require team lifts. As for cardiovascular, by the second day my breathing and heart rate were tolerable.
Any hiking history that I've had doesn't begin to compare to what is required by the AT. The climbs and descents combined with constantly changing, twisting, dropping, gapped, terrain on the wrong choice of footgear.
Plenty of times throughout the years I've had to put my body up the challenge and it usually delivered to one extent or the other. As bad as things would get it was just a matter of taking the pain and carrying on. This time was quite different as I didn't have anything I could effectively factor in on the "function/pain" ratio.
I knew it would be a state of constant discomfort but was quite surprised how fast my legs were shot to the point I knew it was over. Even then I still walked down a road for quite a way before hitching a ride out.
Before I forget, my back was only about as sore as after any strenuous activity. What gave concern was as the prior injured muscle flexed the scar tissued part was quite noticible. Scar tissue doesn't stretch, it tears. And so I realized I had a something that could flat out cripple me out there at the worst time.
All in all, I go in Monday for preliminary paperwork. Looking at surgery without a doubt, probably two or three. Therapy after which naturally I plan to jack up to past standard medical advice. Just because I don't go to gyms doesn't mean I don't know a bunch of dudes who live in them and they'll be quite surprised when I ask them to set up a program and stacks.
Gear wise I have a Granite Gear Nimbus Trace Access 60L. The ruck felt perfectly natural once I repacked up on Springer. Still making sense of the million straps but it was quite nice.
Forgot what sleeping bag I have but I was toasty warm the two nights while people were complaining about sleeping cold.
The tent i was likely to switch out on for something lighter as I made it uptrail. It was a Eureka Midori 2 and all things considered it was quite handy. Very simple to set up and take down. Packing it was a bit of a pain but I had that solved by the second day also.
The boots killed me. Not going to mention brand and all as it was good boot, wrong application. Old milspec thinking totally blew it on this one.
I'll comment some more but I'll get this in now.
No it is not a court of law, but you still made assumptions. I think the OP knew exactly what he was getting into and still has a burning desire to thru-hike when he heals after surgery. This is not a personal attack on you, but I think you were a little harsh on the OP because of those assumptions.
we'll never know for sure unless the OP comes back to clarify for us, but i think reading the OP's post as "long term injuries i had been dealing with prior to my hike impacted me more than i thought they would" is not at all unfair.
and since the hike in question lasted two days.... well, i fail to see how even one shakedown hike would not have revealed the physical issues related to those injuries.
and again, i'm not criticizing someone who goes straight from not hiking to thru hiking, just saying i wouldnt do it. whether i was correct in applying this assumption to the OP or not is sort of moot, as it wasnt intended as a criticism either way.
BuckeyeBill
03-24-2018, 21:36
we'll never know for sure unless the OP comes back to clarify for us, but i think reading the OP's post as "long term injuries i had been dealing with prior to my hike impacted me more than i thought they would" is not at all unfair.
and since the hike in question lasted two days.... well, i fail to see how even one shakedown hike would not have revealed the physical issues related to those injuries.
and again, i'm not criticizing someone who goes straight from not hiking to thru hiking, just saying i wouldnt do it. whether i was correct in applying this assumption to the OP or not is sort of moot, as it wasnt intended as a criticism either way.
Oh you're fine. I just wonder how many people who have done the Approach Trail have not felt the effect of those 600+ steps. I have seen lots of pictures of clothes and gear dumped on the way up.
Oh you're fine. I just wonder how many people who have done the Approach Trail have not felt the effect of those 600+ steps. I have seen lots of pictures of clothes and gear dumped on the way up.
I went up the East Ridge trail.
It was quite crazy, sorta reminded me of an assault course with a stretch that is a perfect preview of Pennsylvania. It's a geological dream up there.
Pack weight was 37 pounds. Ran into a few people on the Approach with near and plus 50 lbs.
BuckeyeBill
03-24-2018, 23:02
EL JP,
Well in addition to what you posted earlier, that settles the experience part. I still think those stairs did you in, but I am admitting I could be wrong. My step daughter tried to talk her mom and me to join her office team for the empire state building stair climb race. I look at her and said "Are you on crack?"
I said it somewhere on WB that I have done several long a** section hikes of the AT, but left both termini not hiked. Southern end was all of Georgia and up to Clingman's Dome. Up on the north end, all of Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine. Why you may ask? I want certain sections to be new to me, even though I have been to Clingman's Dome numerous times.
Umm, how are people defining will power?
I see it as effective self control., the ability to make capable competent decisions. Using that definition is it being said lack of will power didn't come into play in the experiences cited for quitting in this incident? I ask because it sure seems it did.
Umm, how are people defining will power?
I see it as effective self control., the ability to make capable competent decisions. Using that definition is it being said lack of will power didn't come into play in the experiences cited for quitting in this incident? I ask because it sure seems it did.
The will power I'm used to observing is the ability to go beyond certain limitations and thresholds. As of this moment, the AT is my absolute , impassable limit. An impossibility.
This might be going a bit too far here but I'm willing to near masochistally transform my body for the sole reason of taking on the AT thru-hike hike. The Trail is all I want to do now.
Between the surgeries, therapy and workouts a whole lot of pain is going to be involved. There will be plenty of times then where pure will is all that matters.
Be mindful of what you believe, what you dwell - meditate upon. Guard your heart and mind.
When in our darkest hr know all things are possible to him that believes.
What we focus - dwell upon - we attract to ourselves.
That does not have to be a religious statement. It's been applied by some of the greatest achievers in known history.
BuckeyeBill
03-25-2018, 01:44
EL JP
Never say some thing is an impassible limit. You are dedicating yourself to correct things that need fixed. You may be surprised at the changes. I try to walk 10 miles every other day after work. I gave smoking, drinking, don't have a wife, yes to a part time girlfriend. I don't do the gym thing either. I use engine heads, crankshafts and transmissions for weights while I am at my shop. Am I in great shape? I want to lose about 20 more pounds, but I am working on that. My biggest thing holding me back now is hiking season coincides with car show season. We hit a lot of local shows, but hit Goodguys in Indy and Columbus along with Hot August Nights and SEMA in Vegas and Detroit Autorama, but those are my problems. Hope your surgeries go well and your recovery is fast.
rocketsocks
03-25-2018, 06:30
When this thread comes up I read the little as the ‘short bus experience’ gets me every time :D
Traveler
03-25-2018, 06:36
its always amazing to me that so many people who, seemingly, have little to no backpacking experience attempt to thru hike. i would never even consider such a thing, for better or worse. its even more stunning to me that so many people do this and are actually successful.
Seems to me thats true for many challenges people take on in life. For example, countless successful businesses have been started by people without any experience, countless more have failed by people with considerable experience.
One gets out of life what they put into it, without some risk there is little gain. While there is risk involved with a thru hike, as the OP has seen, there is a lot to gain by the experience regardless of how that experience manifests itself. That the chance was taken, be it an AT thru hike, starting a business, having children, or attending college portends a successful future.
Seems to me thats true for many challenges people take on in life. For example, countless successful businesses have been started by people without any experience, countless more have failed by people with considerable experience.
One gets out of life what they put into it, without some risk there is little gain. While there is risk involved with a thru hike, as the OP has seen, there is a lot to gain by the experience regardless of how that experience manifests itself. That the chance was taken, be it an AT thru hike, starting a business, having children, or attending college portends a successful future.
while for certain there is truth that often times those without experience succeed and those with fail, overall i dont buy that the suggestion that those without experience succeed **more often** than those with. thats what you seem to be implying and that is taking it a step, or several steps, too far.
i think if you were to somehow study it youd find that while yes, many people complete a thru hike having never hiked before youd also find that the failure rate, and the very early exit rate in particular, is much much higher among people who have never hiked before than it is amongst people who have, lets say done, at a minimum done multiple weekend backpacking trips.
BuckeyeBill
03-25-2018, 11:43
Seems to me thats true for many challenges people take on in life. For example, countless successful businesses have been started by people without any experience, countless more have failed by people with considerable experience.
One gets out of life what they put into it, without some risk there is little gain. While there is risk involved with a thru hike, as the OP has seen, there is a lot to gain by the experience regardless of how that experience manifests itself. That the chance was taken, be it an AT thru hike, starting a business, having children, or attending college portends a successful future.
Very well said. I have taken many chances in life and my success rate is much better that my failure rate. After my wife passed away, I sold our three businesses and moved back home again. A very close friend of mine was living Escondido, CA and invited me out to help him with his hot rod shop. While I was there, we took time off and did the PCT together. When we returned we worked for about another year and did the CDT. Steve was killed by a drunk driver in December of 2013. With his long time girlfriend Carol, we kept the shop open long enough to finish all the projects we had at the time. Carol told me Steve wanted his ashes spread on the PCT, some at the beginning some at each state border and some at the end. So with Steve's old equipment and a new pack for both of us, we took off in 2014 and walked together to pay tribute to Steve. She didn't have much experience but we made decent time all the way. We flew back to San Diego and when we got home, I stayed for a few days, before flying home again. I still send Carol flowers every year on the anniversary of Steve's death and we exchange email and phone calls. That's why I will never dis a person's dream of a thru-hike, starting a business or going for their college degree.
...countless successful businesses have been started by people without any experience, countless more have failed by people with considerable experience...
Uhh, I'd argue those countless counts aren't the same counts! :D
Success leaves clues. Those that do have a higher biz success, or any success rate, tend to heed those clues. There're definitely patterns of success in all sorts of endeavors in life. Success is often planned, making oneself more aware, earned, rarely spontaneously arrived at...college education, marriage, raising children, investments, thru hiking, greater health, fewer hospital visits, lower auto insurance rates, etc.
What's sown is what's reaped...cause and effect.
As it relates to hiking, backpacking, and LD backpacking there certainly are patterns or clues to higher success rates too. Everyone isn't winging it, learning as they go. There are real tangible cause and effect reasons why those completing Warren Doyle's thru hiking the AT course meet with much higher thru-hiking completion rates!
Back at home and made a few calls. Going to the hospital tomorrow morning to begin the process. Much to my surprise, i apparently pretty much have it made treatment wise. I just might be able to go out next year but i'm
really hoping for the year after.
Traillium
03-25-2018, 23:04
That's why I will never dis a person's dream of a thru-hike, starting a business or going for their college degree.
What a wonderful heart you have, good man!
Very well said. I have taken many chances in life and my success rate is much better that my failure rate. After my wife passed away, I sold our three businesses and moved back home again. A very close friend of mine was living Escondido, CA and invited me out to help him with his hot rod shop. While I was there, we took time off and did the PCT together. When we returned we worked for about another year and did the CDT. Steve was killed by a drunk driver in December of 2013. With his long time girlfriend Carol, we kept the shop open long enough to finish all the projects we had at the time. Carol told me Steve wanted his ashes spread on the PCT, some at the beginning some at each state border and some at the end. So with Steve's old equipment and a new pack for both of us, we took off in 2014 and walked together to pay tribute to Steve. She didn't have much experience but we made decent time all the way. We flew back to San Diego and when we got home, I stayed for a few days, before flying home again. I still send Carol flowers every year on the anniversary of Steve's death and we exchange email and phone calls. That's why I will never dis a person's dream of a thru-hike, starting a business or going for their college degree.
Heartfelt post. That's reality sharing as it connects to hikkng. Hope it brought some closure.
BuckeyeBill
03-26-2018, 19:30
What a wonderful heart you have, good man!
Thank you, but don"t let anyone else know.
well, i fail to see how even one shakedown hike would not have revealed the physical issues related to those injuries.
If anyone knows terrain in North Jersey that can serve as a stand in for the East Ridge/Approach trail, i'd be happy to train on it. Doing slope/streets in North Bergen is easy by comparison. I also stupidly forgot to pop painkillers after the first day.
Wishing you a speedy recovery El Jp.
If anyone knows terrain in North Jersey that can serve as a stand in for the East Ridge/Approach trail, i'd be happy to train on it. Doing slope/streets in North Bergen is easy by comparison. I also stupidly forgot to pop painkillers after the first day.
any of the trails off of the long path between the top of the palisades and the hudson river. they are all short but very steep, gaining 400-500 feet very rapidly by mostly going up steps.
the red dot trail on mount tammany at Delaware water gap is close to a thousand foot gain in a couple miles.
not in NJ, but close by in NY state are the east hudson highlands with several steep climbs of around 1000 feet or more, the most notrious being breakneck ridge which borders on white mountains hard.
pain killers just dull pain, they dont do anything to help actual injuries, which it sounds like you have. dont think you would have finished a thru hike if you had remembered one dose of well timed painkillers.
This same scenario plays out a half dozen times daily here in March and April. Everyday I see folks who have developed stress injuries or have the "deer in the headlights" thing going on that will not get passed Gooch or Woody. I commend the OP for posting about his experience and more so his desire to get up and try again. You rarely find these stories told because most just go home and lick their wounds and are never heard from again.
Much better to quit early and avoid continued, possibly permanent, damage to joints.
I wish you a speedy recovery.
Gambit McCrae
03-28-2018, 08:12
OP has his head up, and that is good to have if he wants to consider another attempt. I am a section hiker, not a thru hiker but on the same level as one when I go out I push myself to a pace of a thru hiker mainly out of boredom in camp if I don't. If I were to have given up on my campaign to complete the trail on my first error or failure, I would have stopped a long time ago. I have been lucky to not encounter anything more then some runners knee, arch pain and yes explosive diarrhea up in Connecticut that didn't make it out of the leggings in the middle of the night (little humor there, but true).
I think it is a positive for the OP to post this, hopefully others can learn the importance of shake downs and previous experience prior to a thru.
LittleRock
03-29-2018, 10:48
I commend the OP for both quitting when he realized he needed to, and sharing his experience so that others could learn from it. I've seen and heard about too many hikers pressing onward by sheer will long after they've stopped enjoying the experience. I've done it myself - on one section hike I pushed through severe pain in my achilles (caused by bad footwear) for several days, to the point where I could barely walk after getting out of bed. EL JP, I hope you can heal quickly and get back out there soon.
last month I took a train 500 miles to the PCT southern terminus, with the goal of doing at least the first section, 109 miles. I had been working up to it for months, hiking with my full pack on my training trail. The weather looked like it was going to be good. I thought I was ready.
First day, I got 7 miles in. That night it poured down rain, and the next day it was cold and windy.
Cold, wet and windy: Conditions I had not prepared for - and was not prepared for. I had to quit after that first night.
Back home now, with new rain gear and a new fleece pullover. Spikes also. Now training with the additional gear. I'm planning to carry all my gear thru the spring and summer, so that I'm used to the load. Gonna give it another shot in September.
Odd Man Out
03-29-2018, 15:38
On my first AT section hike, I was about 4 hours in and I stepped on a flat, sloping, wet rock. My feet flew out from under me and landed on my back and elbow. In the fraction of a second I was airborne with my feet above my head, I had a bunch of thoughts go through my head:
First I thought "I'm screwed"
Then I thought "How could you be so stupid as to step on a flat, sloping, wet rock."
Then I thought "I'm hiking alone. How am I going to get help when injured."
Then I thought "Great! I spent years planning this trip and it comes to a crashing halt just a few hours in."
Then I thought "It's amazing how many things can go through your head in the fraction of a second it takes you to hit the ground.
Then I hit the ground. I gashed my elbow but otherwise was unhurt. I taped it up the gash, wiped up the blood, and kept going. I guess I'm lucky, but stuff happens and if it happens on day 1, that's even worse. It turns out three days later, my knee gave out and I had to call it quits. But I still had a great time and considered it a successful first hike. The key was it was just a first hike but not the last. I haven't had such a bad fall or knee problems since.
Much better to quit early and avoid continued, possibly permanent, damage to joints.
I wish you a speedy recovery.
To be brutally honest, i could care less if making it to Katahdin takes 5 years off my life. As long as my body could have functioned enough to make timely miles i would have stayed on the trail, regardless of pain or damage.
bushwhacker88
04-01-2018, 23:09
I'm curious as to what kind of hassles you had with shuttlers at Cooper Gap?
The hassle was in trying to get a lift. Got in contact with one, who was occupied for some hours and so gave me the number to another who was quite clueless despite a rather clear and detailed text message.
So after ending up down at the Ranger base i called the first again on the security landline who gave me the number of a third shuttler. This one would have been perfect except that he was out and was taking messages, which was no good in my situation seeing as there was zero cell reception where i was and i couldn't bother the security any longer. So i posted up outside the base gate and hitched a ride out.
bushwhacker88
04-02-2018, 09:43
O.K. I can understand that. This is a really busy time of year for shuttlers. I thought you were saying that there were shuttlers there at Coopers Gap and you had a hassle with them.
I spend a lot of time thinking about the AT. Basically am mad as hell about the whole affair. In hindsight i should have used some top quality knee braces and pharmaceutical assistance. You can damn well run a marathon on two broken legs with some of the pills available out there. At Mountain Crossing i could have switched out footgear and carried on.
Am already planning for the next time and seeing just how minimal i can get with gear.
MuddyWaters
04-15-2018, 10:10
I spend a lot of time thinking about the AT. Basically am mad as hell about the whole affair. In hindsight i should have used some top quality knee braces and pharmaceutical assistance. You can damn well run a marathon on two broken legs with some of the pills available out there. At Mountain Crossing i could have switched out footgear and carried on.
Am already planning for the next time and seeing just how minimal i can get with gear.
Your experience wasnt that unusual.
I saw a few 20-somethings get off trail by noc, because knee problems.
Many walking wounded resting up in every southern stop , just trying to stay on trail. I imagine a few of those are self inflicted by trying to keep up with others. I witnessed a young male thruhiker run with pack before...and hurt himself...racing to get a spot at next shelter. Sheer stupidity, and he paid price for it.
It should go without saying, light weight and conditioning are your only friends.
Light body wt, light pack wt,routine cardio, excercise that conditions legs to impacts, set you up for success from start. Even then, starting out slow is smart and build mpd gradually. And take it ez on downhills.
Footwear....is most important gear item. By a long shot.
I came down with itb and tendonitis on a walk once. Before i committed to slowing down downhill. What happens when you get a little discomfort, is your gait changes to accomodate that, then everything goes to hell if you continue to push hard. Muscles are stressed in ways they are not accustomed to.
Called some "trail angels" to inquire about pickup. Got runaround basically. Ended up just hiking 35 miles more stiff legged. Going downhill sideways, and using ibuprofen. I had just enough to get to next town when rationed. When ibuprofen wore off, i couldnt walk 50'. With it, i still managed 15 mpd . After that, i always bring enough ibuprofen to get to next town at 6 per day, usually 30 -40 or so, not a token 3, just in case. Having it in case you or some other hiker needs it makes it a very valuable item in pack. It can do wondors if injured. I am not saying to use it routinely for comfort as some do.
Physically i was doing fine all things considered, i started off very late from Springer and still made it to Hawk in good time. Cardio wise i was locked in just like i was back at work. I'm going to look at hydration gear so i can easily drink on the move. In the past i always had a canteen towards the front but now more water is needed to be carried between objectives (Also had the wrong size 750ML bottles, should have had liters).
Am also going to see about getting a shuttle to the Springer parking. Forget the stairs, i went up the East Ridge trail which was pretty brutal in comparison and adds some distance to the approach. Since now i've done the Approach trail, that's pretty much it. If it's not a white blaze i could care less.
My fully loaded pack weight at Amicalola was 37 lbs. Which was pretty good compared to a few others i seen. Some were over 40 and a couple were over 50. An oldtimer i saw at Cooper had a no lie, 100 lb pack. Next time i'm looking at 30 lbs max. Also looking at the little things. The AT Guide was fine for planning and break time but Guthook would have been better on the move. I was going to pick it up but somehow forgot it. Things are going to be very different the next time around.
A few years back, I joined up with my son who was NOBO'ing, and did the stretch from NOC to Fontana with him (and then some into GSMNP). I did it without much conditioning to speak of, and my quads were killing me! Luckily, no major damage. The next year, I had a major hike lined up in the Alps, and did tons of conditioning hikes ahead of time, which really did the trick.
Conditioning hikes are great - not only do they get you in shape, they give you a window into your weaknesses, help you shake down your gear. And, don't shy away from bad weather.
Best of luck to the OP with his surgery and recovery. It's always better to try, learn a lesson, and then come back.
What's that saying? "Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement." Or something like that.
MuddyWaters
04-15-2018, 11:01
.
My fully loaded pack weight at Amicalola was 37 lbs. Which was pretty good compared to a few others i seen. Some were over 40 and a couple were over 50. An oldtimer i saw at Cooper had a no lie, 100 lb pack. Next time i'm looking at 30 lbs max. Also looking at the little things. The AT Guide was fine for planning and break time but Guthook would have been better on the move. I was going to pick it up but somehow forgot it. Things are going to be very different the next time around.
Today, you can do way better than 37 .
Most starting with that wt drop out or spend $$$ uptrail to reduce it today.
Best to do from the start
This is why completion rates have gone from 10% to closer to 30%
More have discovered lighter gear
No, not necessary
But makes it easier, no doubt.
However, repetitive motion injuries actually increase with lighter packs
Do too much before body acclimated.
Still smart to slow down
EL JP, How many time do you go on backpack trips during the year? I just can't see anyone having success, as a thru, if they do not have frequent backpack trips at other times of the year. You mentioned your boots were "killing" you. Had you been on any backpack trips with them prior to your attempt? How exactly were they "killing" you? Do you use trekking poles?
I spend a lot of time thinking about the AT. Basically am mad as hell about the whole affair. In hindsight i should have used some top quality knee braces and pharmaceutical assistance. You can damn well run a marathon on two broken legs with some of the pills available out there. At Mountain Crossing i could have switched out footgear and carried on.
Am already planning for the next time and seeing just how minimal i can get with gear.
again i cant help but feel like buried in all these "rants" of yours theres the impression that you feel like you *almost* had it. that f you had only done this or only done that you would have been successful.
you hiked 2 days out of 100-120 or more. you didnt almost have anything.
i say this because your preparations for your next attempt need to acknowledge this and work to correct it, not just go back out again with everything the same plus a bigger bottle of advil and a knee brace.
again i cant help but feel like buried in all these "rants" of yours theres the impression that you feel like you *almost* had it. that f you had only done this or only done that you would have been successful.
you hiked 2 days out of 100-120 or more. you didnt almost have anything.
i say this because your preparations for your next attempt need to acknowledge this and work to correct it, not just go back out again with everything the same plus a bigger bottle of advil and a knee brace.
For starters i have knee braces i've used for rough days at work for the last few years. They make a hell of a difference and i debated if i should bring them along but since i hadn't had any horrid knee issues for quite a while i took a pass. Wrong choice as i was also checking out quite a few braces that others used on the AT. As for Advil, forget that. It's easy enough to find plenty of pretty heavy duty chemical assistance. Prescribed stuff that'll allow one to deal with the worst painful situation with minimal discomfort. I thought about it for months and even had some offered by one of the few people that knew what i was going to do.
The 37 pound pack weight wasn't that much of a bother but even then i got rid of a few minor items up on Springer. It's saying something when i could easily do single arm curls with the gear. It'll be much though better next time as i'm just bringing along the basic kit.
And for further above about the boots. They didn't hurt at all. They were very comfortable and are excellent boots. However, they were a bit too much for the trail. Going to really look into something along the lines of trail runners but a bit more built up.
As for Advil, forget that. It's easy enough to find plenty of pretty heavy duty chemical assistance.
i'm just going to isolate that statement and allow it to speak for itself.
i'm just going to isolate that statement and allow it to speak for itself.
What's the problem? Even going back to the high school days, players were given pain killers on the sidelines. You'ed take anything to get up and back into the game. Quite a number of guys on the team used steroids as well. Better Living Through Chemistry was the motto of the times.
Rehab for the knees is going to be excruciatingly painful, i already know that. Damn right i'll be on the verge of being strung out on the stuff they give you following the usual instructions. The trick is to use the meds only when the pain is at it's worse. Otherwise stay away.
I'll tell you one thing though, if i had braces and even a half decent supply i'd still be out there. And before i forget, the back muscle i tore and have scar tissue buildup basically is dealt with in two ways 1-Intense deep massage to break up the scar tissue or 2-Surgery to remove it. Personally, i'm going with the massage.
As it is i'm hoping to get back to Amicalola nest year on more or less the same day.
As it is i'm hoping to get back to Amicalola nest year on more or less the same day.
in that case, why wait? go now. still plenty of time to complete a thru and it sounds like you got it covered now, so get back out there.
in that case, why wait? go now. still plenty of time to complete a thru and it sounds like you got it covered now, so get back out there.
No can do.
It took enough to schedule things this year and it's going to be an even worse hassle to get going next year. As things are at the moment i'm looking at two separate procedures on the knees followed by rehab. Depending on exactly what needs to be done i'm looking at a minimum of 6 months following surgery before intensive prolonged physical activity.
in that case, why wait? go now. still plenty of time to complete a thru and it sounds like you got it covered now, so get back out there.
No can do.
It took enough to schedule things this year and it's going to be an even worse hassle to get going next year. As things are at the moment i'm looking at two separate procedures on the knees followed by rehab. Depending on exactly what needs to be done i'm looking at a minimum of 6 months following surgery before intensive prolonged physical activity.
No can do.
It took enough to schedule things this year and it's going to be an even worse hassle to get going next year. As things are at the moment i'm looking at two separate procedures on the knees followed by rehab. Depending on exactly what needs to be done i'm looking at a minimum of 6 months following surgery before intensive prolonged physical activity.
two posts ago it seems like you were saying you just need painkillers and a knee brace.
two posts ago it seems like you were saying you just need painkillers and a knee brace.
It would have sufficed back then. The timings are long blown and money/supplies have been reassigned.
Unless you happen to know the services of a time machine.
It would have sufficed back then. The timings are long blown and money/supplies have been reassigned.
Unless you happen to know the services of a time machine.
you either need surgery or you dont.
if you think doing it over with a knee brace and some pain meds would have prevented that and gotten you to maine.... well, whatever you need to tell yourself.
you either need surgery or you dont.
if you think doing it over with a knee brace and some pain meds would have prevented that and gotten you to maine.... well, whatever you need to tell yourself.
I'm pretty sure i know my injuries and capabilities a whole lot better than you do. Say for example about 9 years ago i tore the absolute hell out of a tendon in my knee. Needed surgery then. Didn't do it. Never missed a minute of work as a result of that or any other injury i've ever suffered. Didn't even use braces back then while working, just duct tape and carry on. Another little hint, i broke a finger three times in a month playing football. Never went to the hospital as none of us bothered in those days. Hell, there were guys that got shot and dealt with it on their own. That's how these sort of things were done.
Just to add to this, a few years ago i had a 100 percent full check up for the first time in almost 30 years. Everything from MRI down and when all was said and done, the Doc focused on two main points...My liver, which is damaged from drinking and workplace chemical exposure and my knees, which he openly stated his wonder on how i've been going around on them for so long as busted up as they are. He wanted there and then to send me to a specialist and get surgery but, no thanks, i have to get back to work.
As i stated up above in the thread, for the very first time in my life i couldn't get my body to respond in a power through manner. The knees more or less ceased to function in a proper manner and i had nothing to support them with once i felt them starting to go.
Howdy all.
Having taken care of a ton of personal things and dealing with medical bureaucracy, examinations, and all i finally got the word on the situation and what can be done about it. As it turns out, i have arthritis in both knees (severe in one of them) and due to so many untreated injuries and compensation for them over the years, the way i walked was pretty affected. Multiple options include knee replacement but i'm backing off that as much as i can in favor of working around the joint via therapy much as possible. As things are at the moment, it's learning how to walk again in a proper manner. The Doctor was pretty upfront in telling me how completely off my gait is and how to work towards correcting it.
I never once mentioned the AT but beating around the bush about work and sports led to the official confirmation that i obviously chose the wrong footgear. I knew it but still, that's how it goes.