View Full Version : Bear Canisters on the Southern PCT (Campo->Kennedy)
colorado_rob
03-24-2018, 12:31
Is it totally silly, or only mostly silly to carry a lightweight (31 oz Berikade) on the southern 700 miles of the PCT?
From what I have read, there are some bear areas along this section, though not as many as further north. But of course there are also lots of other hungry critters. And I might suppose there are limited places to hang food, so I also suppose a lot of folks just sleep with their food.
My "normal" food storage weighs 5-6 ounces or so, so this would be a 1lb-10oz weight penalty, but it also makes a nice camp stool...
I'm seriously thinking about just carrying the darn thing as a convenience, the rest of my kit is pretty UL (16oz tent, 20oz quilt, 1.5# pack, etc, etc).
Would I be the only person in the Entire PCT History to be carrying a canister on the southern PCT?
Any thoughts appreciated, even smart a$$ cynical ones.
Not needed. Inconvenient. H20 wt and and volume is the priority.
Woodpecker
03-24-2018, 12:38
Is it totally silly, or only mostly silly to carry a lightweight (31 oz Berikade) on the southern 700 miles of the PCT?
From what I have read, there are some bear areas along this section, though not as many as further north. But of course there are also lots of other hungry critters. And I might suppose there are limited places to hang food, so I also suppose a lot of folks just sleep with their food.
My "normal" food storage weighs 5-6 ounces or so, so this would be a 1lb-10oz weight penalty, but it also makes a nice camp stool...
I'm seriously thinking about just carrying the darn thing as a convenience, the rest of my kit is pretty UL (16oz tent, 20oz quilt, 1.5# pack, etc, etc).
Would I be the only person in the Entire PCT History to be carrying a canister on the southern PCT?
Any thoughts appreciated, even smart a$$ cynical ones.
In researching, I've seen some who carry a can although they're in the minority. I'm planning on a URSAK and swap out for a Bearikade prior to the Sierra. (1.5lb savings) If you watch Dixie (HomeMadeWanderlust), her friend Perk carried a can on the desert section.
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Would the bear can serve any benefit in carrying water? As a means of corralling water bottles and freeing up pack space? Assuming the bear can rides on top of your pack secured by an over the top strap like I see people do with HMG packs.
If I’m making any sense. Otherwise I was never here.
Wayne
Woodpecker
03-24-2018, 13:04
Would the bear can serve any benefit in carrying water? As a means of corralling water bottles and freeing up pack space? Assuming the bear can rides on top of your pack secured by an over the top strap like I see people do with HMG packs.
If I’m making any sense. Otherwise I was never here.
Wayne
For most of us it's less about freeing up cubic inches and more about the added weight- especially for the desert section where you may need to carry additional liters of water to make the next water source. 2.2lb x 6 liters adds up quick. Need to cut weight elsewhere
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colorado_rob
03-24-2018, 13:16
Would the bear can serve any benefit in carrying water? As a means of corralling water bottles and freeing up pack space? Assuming the bear can rides on top of your pack secured by an over the top strap like I see people do with HMG packs.
If I’m making any sense. Otherwise I was never here.
Wayne Sure you were making sense, but pack volume is not a problem at all with my kit, I generally don't get close to filling up my Zpacks 60L Arc Haul, even with a canister in it. I carry the canister on top of everything else in my pack, vertical, sticking out of the top just barely, sometimes, but rarely (thoroughly tested for 16 days last fall on the Sierra High Route, see attached pic, the canister is on the left, up high, but well inside the pack). If I happened upon a dry stretch with a full food load and needed to carry 6-7L (more?) of water, everything would still fit. I think. Easy to test. But without a full food load, yeah, the canister could hold a couple of 2L platypuses (platypi?) with the food.
I hear everyone on the weight thing, and I realize an extra 1.6 pounds of canister is silly to most folks. Just getting a feel for how silly.
colorado_rob
03-24-2018, 13:28
In researching, I've seen some who carry a can although they're in the minority. I'm planning on a URSAK and swap out for a Bearikade prior to the Sierra. (1.5lb savings) If you watch Dixie (HomeMadeWanderlust), her friend Perk carried a can on the desert section.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The URsack is an excellent idea, works well in Colorado too. More gear!
Yeah, Rob, you'd be the only person in history to carry a bear can down there! Except for that guy Perk. I wouldn't put much stock in Perk's choice of gear, tho. He was also the only guy in history to wear a necktie while hiking the PCT. (Yes folks, the dude was wearing a necktie)! ?
However, I sometimes (probably all the time) carry stuff I don't need. And I'm even getting better (or worse, depending on your perspective ) at it. The reason is for training. I figure sometime I might need that bearcan, so I might as well start getting used to carrying it. My first hike from Campo, I was totally unprepared for the weight I was carrying -- mostly in water. Decided not to make that mistake again.
And in addition to the weight, there's also getting used to the placement. Where am I gonna put that bear can? Am I going to have to move stuff to make room for it? Where am I going to put that stuff? Might take a while , trying different ways of packing to find what you like best...
That's the only reason I'd take a bear can south of Kennedy, tho. Just so I'm used to it already, when it becomes required...
btw, Dixie commented, with a wink and a nod, that while carrying a bear can was required, it was NOT required that you actually have all your food inside it. (Which - if you don't - kinda negates the whole main reason for having it in the first place)...
Woodpecker
03-24-2018, 13:34
Sure you were making sense, but pack volume is not a problem at all with my kit, I generally don't get close to filling up my Zpacks 60L Arc Haul, even with a canister in it. I carry the canister on top of everything else in my pack, vertical, sticking out of the top just barely, sometimes, but rarely (thoroughly tested for 16 days last fall on the Sierra High Route, see attached pic, the canister is on the left, up high, but well inside the pack). If I happened upon a dry stretch with a full food load and needed to carry 6-7L (more?) of water, everything would still fit. I think. Easy to test. But without a full food load, yeah, the canister could hold a couple of 2L platypuses (platypi?) with the food.
I hear everyone on the weight thing, and I realize an extra 1.6 pounds of canister is silly to most folks. Just getting a feel for how silly.
Definitely a cumulative task, 8oz here, 4oz there. On my "Gear To-Buy" list I've swapped or cut out items of clothing, tents, cooking items, water filtration and probably 50 other things over the last few months, fighting between weight, safety, functionality and comfort. In the end, it comes down to what you want to carry on your back. I'm a big guy (5'11 and thick) so the weight is less of an impact but I'm also 56 years old and not as resilient as I used to be; and a 23 year old 140lb guy will have a whole different set of dynamics and priorities. Darwin recently did a good job on YouTube discussing this topic- base weight always evolving with trek environment, experience and new gear releases.
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No way would I carry a canister in SoCal Or even an Ursack. There has only been a couple of places where bears have been problematic over the years, north of Walker and around Whitewater. But even with the thousands of hikers going through there you just don't hear of more than a couple of encounter over the years.
colorado_rob
03-24-2018, 14:26
You guys are definitely talking me out of this nonsense. Thanks.
Shucks. We failed.
Have fun! The new snow might make water a bit easier to find.
Wayne
AllDownhillFromHere
03-24-2018, 14:40
Death by a thousand grams. Every ounce is an ounce.
Woodpecker
03-24-2018, 14:56
ColoradoRob, do you use Lighterpack.com? Great tool
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colorado_rob
03-24-2018, 16:25
ColoradoRob, do you use Lighterpack.com? Great tool
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI do not, but maybe I'll check it out sometime, I see lots of folks using it on here. I'm not being snobby, but I do have my kit pretty well dialed though, looking at 9 lb base weight for this PCT endeavor, not extreme UL, somewhere around "average UL" I suppose. (without that silly Bear canister., that is)
Just an editorial on gram counting: over my decades of backpacking, where I have continuously tried to reduce my carried weight, I think I've finally hit a point of diminishing returns. What I mean is that when my total pack weight gets below about 20-22 pounds or so, I basically pretty much quit noticing it. And anything below 28-30 pounds is pretty darn comfortable.
So, for me, there is no real benefit of a, say, 6 or 7 pound base weight vs my 9 pound, except on those rare days (hopefully!) when I have 6 days of food (10lb) in my pack and 6 liters of water (13lb) when my pack will weigh 32 pounds, those days I wish I had that 2 pounds less on my base. But I like my full bug screen tent and full length pad, cozy quilt, jetboil stove, comfy 4-oz pillow and external phone battery and such. My true extreme UL buddy gives me grief all the time (he's at 5.5 base for summer hiking), but I laugh back at him and keep up just fine.
Thanks all for talking me down from that extra 1.6-ish pounds of silliness!
We all need talking down from the ledge occasionaly. :D
Not that it is needed but I'll reiterate what's been said - no need whatsoever. I never saw or heard of any bear issues in the 700 miles to Kennedy Meadows back in April/early May of 2015. I picked up my bearikade at KM. You'll be very glad to not have that extra two pounds with the longer water carries.
gwschenk
03-26-2018, 10:55
btw, Dixie commented, with a wink and a nod, that while carrying a bear can was required, it was NOT required that you actually have all your food inside it.
Well, tell the ranger at Charlotte Lake that Dixie said it was OK, that'll go over well.
There's no need for a bear can from Campo to Kennedy Meadows. Although I've carried a can when it's not required, as others say, you'll want to use that weight for water down south.
Good luck on your hike, you'll enjoy it.
btw, Dixie commented, with a wink and a nod, that while carrying a bear can was required, it was NOT required that you actually have all your food inside it.
Well, tell the ranger at Charlotte Lake that Dixie said it was OK, that'll go over well.
I think, if you told the ranger, it would likely negate the 'wink and nod' aspect of Dixie's comment. ?
I found, generally when she said stuff like this, she'd always say something like, "Not telling YOU what to do, but just what I observed"....
AllDownhillFromHere
03-26-2018, 12:57
I think, if you told the ranger, it would likely negate the 'wink and nod' aspect of Dixie's comment. ?
I found, generally when she said stuff like this, she'd always say something like, "Not telling YOU what to do, but just what I observed"....
I've heard the same from Yogi.
gwschenk
03-26-2018, 16:40
I've heard the opposite from the rangers working Charlotte and Rae Lakes. I'd believe them over Dixie and Yogi. Tell you what, if you see George Durkee out there, run that by him, see how amused he is.
...Dixie commented, with a wink and a nod, that while carrying a bear can was required, it was NOT required that you actually have all your food inside it. (Which - if you don't - kinda negates the whole main reason for having it in the first place)...
No wink and nod required. What Dixie said is the law. You don't need to have all your food in a canister. Your first day and night’s food doesn’t need to fit in your canister. When that food isn't in the canister you have to always have that food on your person in your immediate possession. ALL of your food and scented items must be in the canister once you make camp... in storage. When we know and demonstrate abiding by the law and fulfill its intention Rangers don't have a problem.
The idea of a bear can is to get bears from getting food. Food legally stored according to the law on one's person outside of a can when hiking doesn't negate honoring those intentions or the law.
Woodpecker
03-26-2018, 17:39
No wink and nod required. What Dixie said is the law. You don't need to have all your food in a canister. Your first day and night’s food doesn’t need to fit in your canister. When that food isn't in the canister you have to always have that food on your person in your immediate possession. ALL of your food and scented items must be in the canister once you make camp... in storage. When we know and demonstrate abiding by the law and fulfill its intention Rangers don't have a problem.
The idea of a bear can is to get bears from getting food. Food legally stored according to the law on one's person outside of a can when hiking doesn't negate honoring those intentions or the law.
Correct Sir! Do we keep our trail snacks in the bear can while we are still hiking? NO. Also, she was having a little fun with the topic and wasn't being serious.
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If Dixie is offering the bear can advice she did, although accurate, I wonder if she actually knew the bear can law details if she included a wink and nod. No wink and nod was needed. An explanation of the law with those included details is what should have been offered not something that suggests impropriety.
The bear can law exists to keep bears from getting food making for greater safety for both the bears and humans. Promote that.
gwschenk
03-26-2018, 19:21
The bear can law exists to keep bears from getting food making for greater safety for both the bears and humans.
I wish more people realized that. Ask any ranger, they'll tell you they hate having to shoot a bear.
@gwschenk Some might say Duh! But we can get side tracked or make things seem more complicated then needed losing sight of the main intention. Smiley
I've seen signs of black bears in the San Jacintos, San Bernardino Mtns (in fact I remember a bear that bit through a tent onto a Boy Scouts head who brought a snickers bar to bed about 20 years ago), San Gabriels, and that section between Tehachapi and Kennedy Meadows. That said, I never bring a bear can or Ursack when hiking in these areas as you will seldom have an encounter and we aren't talking about bears with a Yosemite level of acclamation to humans.
That said, don't camp at Little Jimmy trail camp just after Wrightwood and at Joshua Tree Spring? (the one that tested positive for low levels of uranium; though most springs along the PCT haven't been tested so who knows what you are drinking) between Tehachapi and Kennedy Meadows as your odds of seeing one there will be much higher based on past reported experience.
AllDownhillFromHere
03-27-2018, 00:00
There's was a bear near Idyllwild last May.
https://www.pe.com/2017/05/23/a-bear-in-idyllwild-yes-its-a-rare-thing/
Gabigabs
03-27-2018, 22:42
We never had any problems in SoCal and never felt a need for it. Make sure to have plenty of space for water when hiking through the desert. This is a drier year and you might need to carry around 7 liters at some sections. Water IMHO is the biggest priority at that part of the trail.