View Full Version : Designing a Better Bear Canister
We are a group of students at the University of Chicago working on designing a better bear canister, and we'd love to get your input to understand how we can improve your backpacking experience. This survey is confidential and should take no more than a few minutes to complete. As a token of our appreciation, complete the survey by 6 pm CT on Friday, 4/13 to be entered in a drawing to win a $100 Amazon gift card!
Please fill out the survey at https://chicagobooth.az1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_eXo8e6sd3YWuoIJ. Thank you in advance for your help!
cmoulder
04-11-2018, 06:20
I completed your survey and wish you good luck.
As you likely discovered with a bit of googling, as an engineering exercise this is a tough nut to crack with some very high regulatory hurdles thrown in for good measure.
MuddyWaters
04-11-2018, 07:09
Only thing that matters is weight, price, and getting approval by yosmite/seki. To be better than existing products that is. Good luck.
Seems they really are focusing on a modular expandable size thing to me. Which is irrelevant imo.
Get out and hike the AT or any trail for a few days or weeks,that might give your group an idea what is needed.
HooKooDooKu
04-11-2018, 09:50
abeona, assuming you're following up on this thread... a few things to realize (in case you don't already)...
1. Someone recently tried to create a new bear canister... trying to create a solution that was lighter weight and cheaper than what was available. It was a failure. (I believe it was called "Honey Pot" and was a kick-starter campaign. Was "active" as recently as about a year ago, but can't find any evidence of the project with a quick google search anymore).
2. Bears have an incredible sense of smell... I've heard of studies where food was placed in nested ziplock bags and the bear still had no problem finding the food.
The purpose of a bear canister isn't to hide the scent of the food, the purpose of the bear canister is to create a package that frustrates the bear so that after he's learned that he can't get into the canister, he quits trying in the future when he encounters the same object and knows he can't get into it.
3. Personal judgement call... but I believe the concept of building an expandable bear canister is a fool's errand. I don't think it is going to be possible to build a bear canister that can change size AND still keep out a bear without increasing the weight such that the expand-ability just isn't worth it. Perhaps the only possible exception would be some sort of setup where two bear canisters could be combined (i.e. the lid and canister is designed in such a way that a second bear canister could substitute as a lid).
Rain Man
04-11-2018, 11:42
I understand a danger with bear canisters is bears rolling them away, even over cliffs to break them or so far away that hikers can't find them, even if they are still intact. Why don't bear canisters have a way to fasten them to a tree, boulder, etc.?
BTW, I tried the link multiple times. It never opened, just "churned" and "churned."
Sarcasm the elf
04-11-2018, 11:49
I understand a danger with bear canisters is bears rolling them away, even over cliffs to break them or so far away that hikers can't find them, even if they are still intact. Why don't bear canisters have a way to fasten them to a tree, boulder, etc.?
As I understand it, the answer is because canisters are designed so that bears cannot get any sort of grip on them. Lightweight canisters are far from indestructible and bears are more than strong enough to break into the average canister if it can get sufficient grip or leverage to get a purchase on the container. This is the reason that when storing canisters on trail it is recommended to not attach rope or webbing, put it any sort of bag, or wedge it in trees or rocks that can potentially give a bear the leverage needed to break the canister open.
I've spent quite a bit of time in the Sierra Nevada over the past five years and never had a bear so much as move my Bearikade a single inch. I usually keep it within view of my tent so I can see it when inside the tent and I put my stove on top of the canister so I'm alerted if anything messes with the canister. I'm sure bears have smelled the food and come by at night. They apparently know Bearikades are hopeless to get into so they leave it alone. I don't think there's anything wrong with the current canisters on the market when used correctly. Of course if someone can design a lighter and better solution, I'd be interested in it. For the most part, canisters have solved the bear problem in the Sierra Nevada. Bears can no longer get food when food is properly secured. The weak link is human error but it is much harder to screw up using a bear canister than a bear hang.
MuddyWaters
04-11-2018, 16:47
Approved cannisters also have only resisted 1 hr of bear play. Pictures have been seen on here before of igbc approved cannister that lil ol black bear ate his way into.
You need to have mindset to defend cannister. Given enough time, an interested bear WILL defeat all of them. Known to do in yosemite by rolling off cliff. Maybe should pass loaded 100' drop test onto concrete also.
BTW, I tried the link multiple times. It never opened, just "churned" and "churned."
worked for me a minute ago....
You need to have mindset to defend cannister.
Agreed. That's why I keep mine a short distance from my tent (maybe 20-30 yards or so) so I can see it from inside my tent and hear it at night. I don't agree with the advice typically given to put it far away from camp. Especially if there's a lot of white noise like a river nearby. I want to know if a bear is messing with my canister. Never happened so far but it could.
I only have experience with black bears. Would probably feel different about grizzlies.
lonehiker
04-11-2018, 18:15
Agreed. That's why I keep mine a short distance from my tent (maybe 20-30 yards or so) so I can see it from inside my tent and hear it at night. I don't agree with the advice typically given to put it far away from camp. Especially if there's a lot of white noise like a river nearby. I want to know if a bear is messing with my canister. Never happened so far but it could.
I only have experience with black bears. Would probably feel different about grizzlies.
Exactly what experience do you have with black bears? I mean hiking in black bear country isn't exactly like having experience with them...
lonehiker
04-11-2018, 18:15
Agreed. That's why I keep mine a short distance from my tent (maybe 20-30 yards or so) so I can see it from inside my tent and hear it at night. I don't agree with the advice typically given to put it far away from camp. Especially if there's a lot of white noise like a river nearby. I want to know if a bear is messing with my canister. Never happened so far but it could.
I only have experience with black bears. Would probably feel different about grizzlies.
Exactly what experience do you have with black bears? I mean hiking in black bear country isn't exactly like having experience with them...
MuddyWaters
04-11-2018, 18:40
Exactly what experience do you have with black bears? I mean hiking in black bear country isn't exactly like having experience with them...
Experience they are wussies that run away.
I keep mine 10 ft from my tent. Or where it cannot roll away, especially downhill into creek.
[QUOTE=HooKooDooKu;2204042]abeona, assuming you're following up on this thread... a few things to realize (in case you don't already)...
1. Someone recently tried to create a new bear canister... trying to create a solution that was lighter weight and cheaper than what was available. It was a failure. (I believe it was called "Honey Pot" and was a kick-starter campaign. Was "active" as recently as about a year ago, but can't find any evidence of the project with a quick google search anymore).
This one ?
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hunny-ultralight-bear-resistant-canisters-camping#/
Hatchet_1697
04-11-2018, 19:30
Everything University of Chicago students need to know about bears can be found here: http://www.chicagobears.com. :)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Another one that did not happen is this one :
http://www.trailspace.com/blog/2011/01/21/outdoor-retailer-bearier-700.html
they usually fail because they don't pass the tests set by the relevant authorities.
Now that you know everything you need to know about bear canisters, can you guys make a food canister with a lid on the top and bottom? That way when you get low on the sugar, flour or whatever, you can just fill it up and turn it over - and now the older stuff is on top.
If you make it, I'll buy the first set!
Sorry - shouldn't have gone off topic. Should have sent a pm. Wasn't thinkin
Exactly what experience do you have with black bears? I mean hiking in black bear country isn't exactly like having experience with them...
Exactly who are you to interrogate me about my experiences? Have something to say? Say it.
Experience they are wussies that run away.
Yes.
The times I've come across them in the Appalachians (rarely) they run like deer. Even when I surprised a cub and its mother trail running. Mother sent cub up a tree and then followed. I've never seen one in the Sierra Nevda backcountry. I've seen them in the developed areas of Yosemite. There they have little fear.
MuddyWaters
04-11-2018, 22:20
Yes.
The times I've come across them in the Appalachians (rarely) they run like deer. Even when I surprised a cub and its mother trail running. Mother sent cub up a tree and then followed. I've never seen one in the Sierra Nevda backcountry. I've seen them in the developed areas of Yosemite. There they have little fear.
True story
Woman in Yosemite found a bear in in their food.
She threw one of her shoes at the bear and hit it. The bear walked up to her and took the other shoe out of her other hand.
Bear canisters on the AT? Not necessary at all - not even desirable given the weight penalty.
abeona, assuming you're following up on this thread... a few things to realize (in case you don't already)...
1. Someone recently tried to create a new bear canister... trying to create a solution that was lighter weight and cheaper than what was available. It was a failure. (I believe it was called "Honey Pot" and was a kick-starter campaign. Was "active" as recently as about a year ago, but can't find any evidence of the project with a quick google search anymore).
2. Bears have an incredible sense of smell... I've heard of studies where food was placed in nested ziplock bags and the bear still had no problem finding the food.
The purpose of a bear canister isn't to hide the scent of the food, the purpose of the bear canister is to create a package that frustrates the bear so that after he's learned that he can't get into the canister, he quits trying in the future when he encounters the same object and knows he can't get into it.
3. Personal judgement call... but I believe the concept of building an expandable bear canister is a fool's errand. I don't think it is going to be possible to build a bear canister that can change size AND still keep out a bear without increasing the weight such that the expand-ability just isn't worth it. Perhaps the only possible exception would be some sort of setup where two bear canisters could be combined (i.e. the lid and canister is designed in such a way that a second bear canister could substitute as a lid).
Thanks for the suggestions! Right now, we're considering a design similar to the one you mentioned (substituting a second part as a lid). As we play around with different designs, we'll evaluate whether or not the ability to adjust bear canister volumes compensates enough for the weight penalty incurred.
Another one that did not happen is this one :
http://www.trailspace.com/blog/2011/01/21/outdoor-retailer-bearier-700.html
they usually fail because they don't pass the tests set by the relevant authorities.
Thanks for sharing! We had heard about Hunny Cannisters, but this one is not as well known.
Now that you know everything you need to know about bear canisters, can you guys make a food canister with a lid on the top and bottom? That way when you get low on the sugar, flour or whatever, you can just fill it up and turn it over - and now the older stuff is on top.
If you make it, I'll buy the first set!
Thanks for the suggestion :) That would be a great product to have.
Everything University of Chicago students need to know about bears can be found here: http://www.chicagobears.com. :)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Haha they're certainly the most active bears in the city :)
Thanks so much for all the comments, feedback, and responses to the survey so far! We really appreciate your input. We also wanted to share a friendly reminder that there are ~23 hours remaining to respond to the survey and qualify for the chance to win an Amazon gift card!
Hatchet_1697
04-12-2018, 20:25
What materials are you looking at using? A round Carbon fiber design is light but doesn’t hold up well to the lateral pressures of a bear bouncing on it with its front paws, or rolling it off a cliff onto rocks, tends to split open. Polycarbonate canisters like the bear vault already exist. I’d be curious if a carbon fiber/Dyneema hybrid composite with a smooth slick outer material (to keep the bear from getting leverage) would work. I know, I know... way too grey beard engineer geeky for this forum, does your team have a website?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
What materials are you looking at using? A round Carbon fiber design is light but doesn’t hold up well to the lateral pressures of a bear bouncing on it with its front paws, or rolling it off a cliff onto rocks, tends to split open. Polycarbonate canisters like the bear vault already exist. I’d be curious if a carbon fiber/Dyneema hybrid composite with a smooth slick outer material (to keep the bear from getting leverage) would work. I know, I know... way too grey beard engineer geeky for this forum, does your team have a website?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
We appreciate the help brainstorming! :) We still haven't finalized our material selection or created a website yet, but we're aiming to do so in the next few weeks. We'll let you know when the website (with material details) is up! Would love to get your thoughts on our initial design ideas.
imscotty
04-12-2018, 21:39
I was camped in Yosemite at a designated backcountry site that was having bear issues. The ranger instructed all the campers in the area to store our canisters together 'tied up' to a tree. We did. Sure enough that evening mother and cub came along to steal the food. Several hikers making noise and throwing small rocks was not a deterrent to momma bear. The bear finally made off into the woods with someones polycarbonate canister. My Bearikade was left behind.
Once bears have been acclimated to human food they are difficult to deter.
When not directed otherwise by a backcountry ranger my preference is to store my canister in sight of my tent with my stove on top as was suggested. I also try to find a natural depression to place it in so it cannot be easily rolled away.
I was camped in Yosemite at a designated backcountry site that was having bear issues. The ranger instructed all the campers in the area to store our canisters together 'tied up' to a tree. We did. Sure enough that evening mother and cub came along to steal the food. Several hikers making noise and throwing small rocks was not a deterrent to momma bear. The bear finally made off into the woods with someones polycarbonate canister. My Bearikade was left behind.
Once bears have been acclimated to human food they are difficult to deter.
When not directed otherwise by a backcountry ranger my preference is to store my canister in sight of my tent with my stove on top as was suggested. I also try to find a natural depression to place it in so it cannot be easily rolled away.
“The mothering cub issue is somewhat of an urban myth when it comes to black bears. That’s more of a brown bear situation,” said Jamie Sajecki, black bear project leader for the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries. “Black bears have a different strategy when threatened. They’ll tend to send their cubs up a tree, then come back later and get them when the threat is gone.”
"Sajecki added that the state has never recorded a fatality as a result of an attack, saying that black bears like to avoid contact with humans."
MuddyWaters
04-13-2018, 17:38
“The mothering cub issue is somewhat of an urban myth when it comes to black bears. That’s more of a brown bear situation,” said Jamie Sajecki, black bear project leader for the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries. “Black bears have a different strategy when threatened. They’ll tend to send their cubs up a tree, then come back later and get them when the threat is gone.”
"Sajecki added that the state has never recorded a fatality as a result of an attack, saying that black bears like to avoid contact with humans."
Black bears innately consider us to be the grizzly bears they evolved to fear. Until they learn otherwise, and that we are tasty...
Feral Bill
04-13-2018, 17:48
Black bears innately consider us to be the grizzly bears they evolved to fear. Until they learn otherwise, and that we are tasty... And modern Americans are so well marbled.
mateozzz
04-13-2018, 18:41
I had to turn off my ad blocker to get it to work.
I would use a bear canister all the time if it wasn't a big weight penalty, say less than 2 pounds for a real 6 days of food. That would avoid the hassle of having to hang it every night, sometimes more than once if I forgot to put something in it or need to get something out. If it could replace something in my pack that would help out the weight equation, but I haven't thought of anything since I normally don't carry a stool or a frying pad (lid). If the canister *was* the pack, then that might be something, although I don't want food scent all over my stuff either. Maybe it could be part of the pack and hold water, too. Just brainstorming...
I understand a danger with bear canisters is bears rolling them away, even over cliffs to break them or so far away that hikers can't find them, even if they are still intact. Why don't bear canisters have a way to fasten them to a tree, boulder, etc.?
BTW, I tried the link multiple times. It never opened, just "churned" and "churned."
I've been using a Bare Boxer for a few trips and it's worth the weight penalty. Don't have to worry about finding the right branch, no throws, no worries about meece, and it fits in the top of the pack quite easily. At night, I stash it in some bushes to make it hard to move around. I do not see a bear swatting this thing for hundreds of yards, or similar, as it has a tendency to move in circles if you swat the ends (yes, I tried).
The Bearikades, Weekender and Expedition, are quite popular for trips in the approximate range of 5 to 10 days. If you could design an adjustable canister that mimicked those two canisters you might have a winner.
Good luck!
Wayne
Feral Bill
04-15-2018, 20:16
If expand-ability is a serious goal, you could have two halves that are threaded to screw together, with a center section that can be screwed in between.
dcdennis
04-16-2018, 08:02
Now that you know everything you need to know about bear canisters, can you guys make a food canister with a lid on the top and bottom? That way when you get low on the sugar, flour or whatever, you can just fill it up and turn it over - and now the older stuff is on top.
If you make it, I'll buy the first set!
lol you want someone to engineer a double lidded canister because you are too lazy to dump your food out and repack it? XD hehehehe
If expand-ability is a serious goal, you could have two halves that are threaded to screw together, with a center section that can be screwed in between.
You mean something similar like this?
https://www.amazon.de/BD-Werkzeugtechnik-Steckschl%C3%BCssel-Klemmfunktion-magnetisch-YZ00BS000/dp/B00LOIEJE0
(the package, not the content)
HooKooDooKu
04-16-2018, 09:26
lol you want someone to engineer a double lidded canister because you are too lazy to dump your food out and repack it? XD hehehehe
Not such a crazy idea...
The design of the Bearikade might actually make this a reasonable option. The two ends of the Bearikade are nearly identical. The exception is that the metal "band" that is on the "top" has a removable inner lid where as the "bottom" is practically the same band welded together as a solid piece.
I suspect the weight difference would only be a few ounces... and about the only reason I bet Bearikade doesn't offer this as an option is because it would technically be a different design and they would have to go thru all the approval process again... likely not enough demand to justify such a cost...
Either that, or they've tried it and BOTH ends not being solid changes the strength of the canister and no longer able to resist crushing forces (hence the reason a design change like this would need additional testing... the sort of things you have to keep in mind when designing).
lol you want someone to engineer a double lidded canister because you are too lazy to dump your food out and repack it? XD hehehehe
The idea has some merit. Anyone who has crammed a week's worth of food in a canister knows how important it is to plan the sequence in which you will eat food so that you don't have to dump the contents of the precisely packed canister and repack, especially early in the trip. Later in the trip, the canister has less in it and it's easier to get to the bottom. Not the case at all with a fully packed canister. Not a huge deal for me because I have a lot of experience knowing how to pack in such a way that what I want and need is always at the top as I work my way down. But lots of people don't do that.
I suspect the weight difference would only be a few ounces... and about the only reason I bet Bearikade doesn't offer this as an option is because it would technically be a different design and they would have to go thru all the approval process again... likely not enough demand to justify such a cost...
.
One thing about the Bearikade is that I've never found mine to be totally waterproof if I place it with the lid facing up. I flip it around and place it with the lid down. If both sides had the same lid, then I think rain incursion would be a problem. Some people report that their bearikades are waterproof but mind never has been.
Feral Bill
04-16-2018, 11:19
Not really. If my drawing skills were better I could show what I mean.
You mean something similar like this?
https://www.amazon.de/BD-Werkzeugtechnik-Steckschl%C3%BCssel-Klemmfunktion-magnetisch-YZ00BS000/dp/B00LOIEJE0
(the package, not the content)
HooKooDooKu
04-16-2018, 11:55
The idea has some merit. Anyone who has crammed a week's worth of food in a canister knows how important it is to plan the sequence in which you will eat food so that you don't have to dump the contents of the precisely packed canister and repack...
If you're pushing the limits of what your bear canister can hold, I found the opposite approach to be much easier.
After picking up 10 days worth of supplies at MTR during a JMT thru hike, I spent well over an hour trying to figure out how to get all my supplies in the canister.
Finally, the process that worked was to pull 1 day's worth of supplies to the side, and then pack everything else without any regard to any organization other than placing items together that packed as tightly as possible without wasting any space. Then place the one day supply on top.
Of course at the end of that one day, I had to do it all over... dump the entire contents, pull aside one days worth of supplies, and repack everything else in an unorganized fashion. But the process really didn't take that long and became even easier and quicker with each passing day.
lonehiker
04-16-2018, 12:56
If you're pushing the limits of what your bear canister can hold, I found the opposite approach to be much easier.
After picking up 10 days worth of supplies at MTR during a JMT thru hike, I spent well over an hour trying to figure out how to get all my supplies in the canister.
Finally, the process that worked was to pull 1 day's worth of supplies to the side, and then pack everything else without any regard to any organization other than placing items together that packed as tightly as possible without wasting any space. Then place the one day supply on top.
Of course at the end of that one day, I had to do it all over... dump the entire contents, pull aside one days worth of supplies, and repack everything else in an unorganized fashion. But the process really didn't take that long and became even easier and quicker with each passing day.
Ya there is no reason to sweat packing a canister. If it is a long haul you need to do whatever to get it to fit. It's not like you don't have a few minutes in your day to sort it out. I'm actually ambivalent to this subject as my days having to use a canister or so small relative to days I don't have to use one that I'm fine with what I have. The condition in which I would consider getting a new canister would be if it was significantly lighter and cheap. Those two don't usually correlate either so I'm probably stuck with what I have until I check out.
Berserker
04-16-2018, 13:41
Not really adding much value to this thread here, but anybody remember this: http://rutalocura.com/palisade.html
Feral Bill
04-16-2018, 13:52
42472This is What I meant, crudely drawn. You would need anti-unscrewing pins or some such reachable from inside.
Burrhead
04-16-2018, 14:03
I just filed a patent using your drawings....Thank you!:banana
If you're pushing the limits of what your bear canister can hold, I found the opposite approach to be much easier.
After picking up 10 days worth of supplies at MTR during a JMT thru hike, I spent well over an hour trying to figure out how to get all my supplies in the canister.
Finally, the process that worked was to pull 1 day's worth of supplies to the side, and then pack everything else without any regard to any organization other than placing items together that packed as tightly as possible without wasting any space. Then place the one day supply on top.
Of course at the end of that one day, I had to do it all over... dump the entire contents, pull aside one days worth of supplies, and repack everything else in an unorganized fashion. But the process really didn't take that long and became even easier and quicker with each passing day.
I've found that with proper planning I can place each day's worth of food at one "level" in the canister. As I consume food, the next "level" appears without having to repack.
42472This is What I meant, crudely drawn. You would need anti-unscrewing pins or some such reachable from inside.
Pretty similar to what I had in mind.
Aside of the added weight, the biggest task would be to get the threads waterproof. Threads that size need to have lots of loose play to be able to operate it, then to make it waterproof you'd need a seal that should fit tight at any placement.
OK, maybe we could connect the bottom and top pieces by means of an internal elastic bellows that could take care of the waterproofness.
Feral Bill
04-16-2018, 16:23
Pretty similar to what I had in mind.
Aside of the added weight, the biggest task would be to get the threads waterproof. Threads that size need to have lots of loose play to be able to operate it, then to make it waterproof you'd need a seal that should fit tight at any placement.
OK, maybe we could connect the bottom and top pieces by means of an internal elastic bellows that could take care of the waterproofness. A trash bag will deal with waterproof, if its really that important.
Feral Bill
04-16-2018, 16:24
I just filed a patent using your drawings....Thank you!:banana I'll file this post, just in case.:D
Burrhead
04-16-2018, 19:55
Your ok. Turns out they want money to file a patent.
Feral Bill
04-16-2018, 21:52
Your ok. Turns out they want money to file a patent. I hereby donate the modular bear canister public domain, for the benefit of the bearophilic/beariphobic communities.
I hereby donate the modular bear canister public domain, for the benefit of the bearophilic/beariphobic communities.
OK thanks, now for the next steps.
I suggest we take two of the existing non-modular models, cut the top thirds off, weld/glue a short external thread section to each, and add a middle section that has an internal thread.
Then someone should collect some little money and show up at the authorities.
rocketsocks
04-17-2018, 04:48
I just filed a patent using your drawings....Thank you!:bananaI so sari, you server on a 14 hour de-lay, China beat you to it.
There is one bear that has learned to kick the canister to its side and then he sits on it popping the opening end. Having a modular system and or two opening ends could make the job easier for that bears and others that have learned the trick.
I should have added that the hard part is not so much in designing a canister but in getting it approved.
MuddyWaters
04-20-2018, 22:30
I should have added that the hard part is not so much in designing a canister but in getting it approved.
And then...getting people to buy it.
A 41 oz cannister can sell for $70, while a same size 31 oz cannister can sell for $300.
Easy to see where buyer is willing to spend $.:)
nsherry61
04-21-2018, 07:48
Not really adding much value to this thread here, but anybody remember this: http://rutalocura.com/palisade.html
Actually, I think it may add a lot. It offers an example of thinking outside of the box (or the canister in this case), which is pretty important if one wants to figure out an alternative that is lighter and cheaper and bigger and other good things we want. I wonder what the level of effectiveness of that said electrified stuff sack was/is. We certainly use electric fences to keep bears out of food cashes in some areas.
Maybe we need to come up with a stuff sack with out outside surface that is saturated in cayenne pepper? Cheap, light, versatile, and very likely highly effective, at least for a little while.
Heck, an Alaskan hunting guide I worked with years ago, guided down near the McNeil river area (the highest grizzly population density in the world). After he and/or his client made a kill (usually moose) it might take a couple days to pack all the meat out from the kill site to the exit point. He had very good success covering the carcass in a tarp and then peppering the tarp with vast quantities of pepper and urinating around the edges.
Kittyslayer
04-21-2018, 08:24
BTW, I tried... multiple times. It never opened, just "churned" and "churned."
Hopefully that's what the bear says too.
BuckeyeBill
04-21-2018, 15:51
What I can't understand is, how a canister can keep a bear from getting your food, when that same bear can rip the door off a car to get inside?
Feral Bill
04-21-2018, 17:44
What I can't understand is, how a canister can keep a bear from getting your food, when that same bear can rip the door off a car to get inside? It can get a grip on the car door.
BuckeyeBill
04-22-2018, 16:03
OK, I forgot those claws are some pretty strong hooks. Does insurance cover a bear attack or do they consider it an act of God?
HooKooDooKu
04-22-2018, 17:53
OK, I forgot those claws are some pretty strong hooks. Does insurance cover a bear attack or do they consider it an act of God?
Isn't insurance supposed to cover acts of God?
Thank you for working on improving the hiking experience!
Feral Bill
04-22-2018, 21:35
Isn't insurance supposed to cover acts of God? For the religious, isn't everything an act of God?
HikerHarry
05-01-2018, 21:01
Electrify the canister!
I put reflective tape all over mine so I can find it at a distance. Bears in the Sierra learned to leave the barricades and the bvk’s alone due to how hard they were to get into. With enough time a bear can get into almost anything though.
HooKooDooKu
05-02-2018, 16:07
Electrify the canister!
https://modernhiker.com/electric-bear-canisters/
MuddyWaters
05-02-2018, 22:44
https://modernhiker.com/electric-bear-canisters/
How would you pick it up?
Obviously you got to touch it in the right places for that to work.
Once upon a time many many years ago I bought a shock collar for a dog that we wanted to keep off of our new back deck and screened porch. I ran the tx wire underneath the ground on the perimeter of the deck and I also ran one around inside of the porch underneath the carpet.
Complete failure.
Dog quickly learned to allow himself to be shocked lightly until the collar went dead then he did what he wanted.
Things like this have potential. But also have increased modes for failure versus a conventional canister. Like dead batteries. Or not on. Or batteries not working in cold weather. What happens when it gets wet?.
The park authorities do not give a rat's ass what a canister weighs, as there are already acceptable Solutions out there. Only how reliable it is. This is taking it down a notch. There's enough failures with people who can't even manage to close a canister.
HikerHarry
05-02-2018, 23:38
https://modernhiker.com/electric-bear-canisters/
Well shoot, there goes my idea!
Our neighbour has a flock of goats fenced off by a professional electric fence.
We have a nice garden with lots of tasty greens.
As soon as the garden looks greener to the goats than their fenced pasture, they are in our garden - no matter how high the fence and the voltage therein.
Can't imagine that an electrical protection for a bear canister could ever work as effectively as a professional fence would - and then it still would fail if it came to goats.
Are your bears less clever than goats? I doubt.