View Full Version : Penn State says wilderness is too risky for outdoors clubs
cmoulder
04-24-2018, 07:43
LINK (https://apnews.com/79dc2da81c644ef9bb97b844d88be1a5)
Comedy gold: "Penn State conducted a “proactive risk assessment” not based on any previous participant injuries, according to Powers. She said Outing Club activities were rated high risk because they take place in remote environments with poor cell service and distance from emergency services."
cmoulder
04-24-2018, 08:05
I looked for a dateline and didn't see April 1...... :o
towerclimber727
04-24-2018, 08:14
What in the world did we do before cellphones.
Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk
ScottTrip
04-24-2018, 08:59
Well I guess Penn State football is closing down :D
Not as risky as the football team's showers.
Comedy gold: "Penn State conducted a “proactive risk assessment” not based on any previous participant injuries, according to Powers. She said Outing Club activities were rated high risk because they take place in remote environments with poor cell service and distance from emergency services."
I can't see Dartmouth engaging in such cowardly behavior, or almost all other colleges for that matter. This takes risk averse, lawyer-driven behavior to new levels of fearful nutlessness.
Feral Bill
04-24-2018, 12:21
Penn State is just brimming with geniuses, it appears. :-?
Tuckahoe
04-24-2018, 12:25
Can just turn a blind eye to child molestation... But damn it you better not go hiking.
I can honestly say that I look down on Penn state and all of this silliness. From three weeks ago......
42561
Runner2017
04-24-2018, 12:56
LINK (https://apnews.com/79dc2da81c644ef9bb97b844d88be1a5)
Comedy gold: "Penn State conducted a “proactive risk assessment” not based on any previous participant injuries, according to Powers. She said Outing Club activities were rated high risk because they take place in remote environments with poor cell service and distance from emergency services."What about 500 years ago when guys such as Columbus and Magellen sailed into vast unknown seas without even a map?
Magellan famously said "It's necessary to adventure. It's not necessary to live."
Offshore
04-24-2018, 13:14
The hiking community is better off without PSU students (or alumns) on trails. Their blind loyalty to PSU is very cult-like and makes them just creepy - sort of like the Yellow Deli.
Seatbelt
04-24-2018, 13:53
I can honestly say that I look down on Penn state and all of this silliness. From three weeks ago......
42561
Looks like a view from Mt Nittany. If it is, did ya buy a square inch of real estate while you were up there?:)
rocketsocks
04-24-2018, 15:33
I can honestly say that I look down on Penn state and all of this silliness. From three weeks ago......
42561hey be careful up there, you could die of hape.
perdidochas
04-24-2018, 15:53
LINK (https://apnews.com/79dc2da81c644ef9bb97b844d88be1a5)
Comedy gold: "Penn State conducted a “proactive risk assessment” not based on any previous participant injuries, according to Powers. She said Outing Club activities were rated high risk because they take place in remote environments with poor cell service and distance from emergency services."
And interestingly, they have an Outdoor Adventure organization, which offers similar trips but with university staffers leading the trips instead of students (like the Outing Club). It's just infantilizing the college students. The good thing is that nothing stops them from taking an outing not related to either organization.
Shutterbug
04-24-2018, 18:04
LINK (https://apnews.com/79dc2da81c644ef9bb97b844d88be1a5)
Comedy gold: "Penn State conducted a “proactive risk assessment” not based on any previous participant injuries, according to Powers. She said Outing Club activities were rated high risk because they take place in remote environments with poor cell service and distance from emergency services."
All this discussion of risk assessment reminds me of an incident a few years ago. I was president of a small college in the Boston area. One of the science professors invited me to go along on a field trip to study volcanoes on the big island of Hawaii. The professor led the group of students (and me) out on the lava flow to the point that the lava was still liquid. He warned all of us that we were standing on a thin crust of hardened lava. He said that below us the lava was still flowing and told a story about someone who had broken through the lava crust and fell into the hot lava. When I got a chance, I called the professor to one side and asked, "Aren't you concerned about the possible liability of bringing all of these students out here on the lava?" He looked at me with an innocent look and said, "Not at all. I am with my college president."
The hiking community is better off without PSU students (or alumns) on trails. Their blind loyalty to PSU is very cult-like and makes them just creepy - sort of like the Yellow Deli.
A couple years ago, hiking from RT4 in Maine to RT27, we ran into a hiker from Pedd State dumping his pasta water on the ground, and washing his dishes in the water source. He went by the name Captian Jack. Yes, that's how he spelled it in all the shelter logs. Turns out he was studying to be a naturalist or forest ranger or some such crap. He was complaining about the sanctions Pedd State had to endure from the NCAA and how it wasn't fair. I had to explain to him that he was defending a pedaphile and he wasn't on the moral high horse. He was do dumb.
The hiking community is better off without PSU students (or alumns) on trails. Their blind loyalty to PSU is very cult-like and makes them just creepy - sort of like the Yellow Deli.
A couple years ago, hiking from RT4 in Maine to RT27, we ran into a hiker from Pedd State dumping his pasta water on the ground, and washing his dishes in the water source. He went by the name Captian Jack. Yes, that's how he spelled it in all the shelter logs. Turns out he was studying to be a naturalist or forest ranger or some such crap. He was complaining about the sanctions Pedd State had to endure from the NCAA and how it wasn't fair. I had to explain to him that he was defending a pedaphile and he wasn't on the moral high horse. He was do dumb.
Sarcasm the elf
04-24-2018, 19:09
All this discussion of risk assessment reminds me of an incident a few years ago. I was president of a small college in the Boston area. One of the science professors invited me to go along on a field trip to study volcanoes on the big island of Hawaii. The professor led the group of students (and me) out on the lava flow to the point that the lava was still liquid. He warned all of us that we were standing on a thin crust of hardened lava. He said that below us the lava was still flowing and told a story about someone who had broken through the lava crust and fell into the hot lava. When I got a chance, I called the professor to one side and asked, "Aren't you concerned about the possible liability of bringing all of these students out here on the lava?" He looked at me with an innocent look and said, "Not at all. I am with my college president."
:D That’s excellent!
Sarcasm the elf
04-24-2018, 19:09
Apparently this thread is duplicating responses. :banana
BuckeyeBill
04-24-2018, 19:26
It seems to me that if a outing club sponsors an event, the students signing up to join them are volunteering for the activity. If the club included a clause in the sign up form holding both the club and the University harmless in the event of injury or death you have cover your ars. Additionally they should include a full description of what the exactly the event will entail and known risks the activity presents, again they are spelling things out pretty clearly. Some law student or professor could help draft the signup form. Just my opinion.
Odd Man Out
04-24-2018, 23:52
What about 500 years ago when guys such as Columbus and Magellen sailed into vast unknown seas without even a map?
Magellan famously said "It's necessary to adventure. It's not necessary to live."
Well nearly everyone in Magellan's expedition, including Magellan, died, and they didn't have cell phone service. Coincidence???
Unfortunately we here in Austria are moving in a similar direction when it comes to outdoor activities to pupils/students.
While there are very strict rules for any class-wide outdoor happening like the annual hiking day down to the sad fact that most teachers/directors won't take the hassle any more to organize one, there are no limits to rent out the whole happening to a dediacted outdoor company, and that's where things seem to be going: Hand over the activity to a dedicated company, which has an insurance, and takes the money from the parents. Lots of money, btw.
And as I happen to know most staff of the local outdoor companies personally from my former climbing career I can state that they won't do any better that the teachers would, especially they won't care about most of the restrictions teachers would have to follow.
kolokolo
04-25-2018, 06:15
What about 500 years ago when guys such as Columbus and Magellen sailed into vast unknown seas without even a map?
Magellan famously said "It's necessary to adventure. It's not necessary to live."
If I recall correctly, Magellan was killed during his voyage in a battle with natives of what is now part of the Philippines. So there are risks...
Traveler
04-25-2018, 06:32
I wonder if there was some incident or injury that cost the school money precipitating this rationale and subsequent decision.
rocketsocks
04-25-2018, 10:19
If I recall correctly, Magellan was killed during his voyage in a battle with natives of what is now part of the Philippines. So there are risks...maybe, but that’s old world stuff, if he would’ve had some mike & Ike’s or twizzlers with em, that would’ve never happened.
kolokolo
04-25-2018, 10:31
maybe, but that’s old world stuff, if he would’ve had some mike & Ike’s or twizzlers with em, that would’ve never happened.
That's it! Just make sure the Penn State hiking club always has Twizzlers! :)
Bunch of lawyers sitting in a room somewhere.
LINK (https://apnews.com/79dc2da81c644ef9bb97b844d88be1a5)
Comedy gold: "Penn State conducted a “proactive risk assessment” not based on any previous participant injuries, according to Powers. She said Outing Club activities were rated high risk because they take place in remote environments with poor cell service and distance from emergency services."
It seems that folks have a short memory............but I would bet, that the Insurance Companies do not.
:eek:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/24/us/caving-indiana-university.html
they must've been in the widowmakers thread.
Runner2017
04-25-2018, 14:59
Well nearly everyone in Magellan's expedition, including Magellan, died, and they didn't have cell phone service. Coincidence???He died because he got himself into a fight with locals on an island.
Sarcasm the elf
04-25-2018, 15:30
He died because he got himself into a fight with locals on an island.
You have to admit, that absolutely sounds like something Penn State students would do. :D
maybe, but that’s old world stuff, if he would’ve had some mike & Ike’s or twizzlers with em, that would’ve never happened.
And both good PA made choices, too...
cmoulder
04-25-2018, 16:30
He died because he got himself into a fight with locals on an island.
He didn't bring enough beads.
That's it! Just make sure the Penn State hiking club always has Twizzlers! :)
I take take care of that!
Last Call
04-25-2018, 20:34
Pretty sure Penn is still paying for the coaching staff's crimes, and will be for quite some time....
Outing club is NOT disbanding. Update posted to
http://sites.psu.edu/outingclub/
FreeGoldRush
04-25-2018, 21:38
Outing club is NOT disbanding. Update posted to
http://sites.psu.edu/outingclub/
They had to agree not to make trips into the woods in order to keep from disbanding!! They can meet, and talk, and whatever.... but no walking into the dangerous forest.
Rain Man
04-25-2018, 22:20
What about 500 years ago when guys such as Columbus and Magellen sailed into vast unknown seas without even a map?
May I recommend a little reading on the subject? For instance "1421 - The Year the Chinese Discovered America."
Columbus and Magellen most certainly had maps.
Feral Bill
04-25-2018, 22:54
May I recommend a little reading on the subject? For instance "1421 - The Year the Chinese Discovered America."
Columbus and Magellen most certainly had maps. Read the book, and followed up. Iffy source at best. Columbus, (terrible person, bad geographer and administrator, excellent sea captain) however, having been to Iceland, almost certainly knew America was there, and failed to avoid getting there.
Feral Bill
04-25-2018, 22:56
I suppose it would be too much to expect for the club to just break ties with the university.
cmoulder
04-26-2018, 06:50
I suppose it would be too much to expect for the club to just break ties with the university.
Yes. One must be part of an officially sanctioned, organized group to go backpacking. Who doesn't know this, for Pete's sake??
//sarcasm, if it isn't bloody obvious//
It's ironic that I recently hiked the Allegheny Front Trail with some friends and really enjoyed it. PSOC was one of the organizations (https://www.kta-hike.org/allegheny-front-trail.html) that helped develop it.
LittleTim
04-26-2018, 08:35
I wonder if there was some incident or injury that cost the school money precipitating this rationale and subsequent decision.
Its not just Penn State, I have a friend that was attempting to arrange a powerlifting meet as a staff member at a prominent university in NY. After getting clearances for meetings, building space, parking, etc, he had to submit a risk assessment to the safety and security team where all his previous work was then shot down.
Then in the past two years all the departments had to compile exhaustive risk assessment plans, security protocols, emergency plans, etc. Each plan probably took about 60 man hours to assemble, then same had to happen for all extra cirricular clubs. I'm guessing that PSU just crossed that bridge with the outdoor club and had to make an official judgment on the riskiness of hiking and said 'no.'
Makes for a good headline though.
cmoulder
04-26-2018, 09:17
Makes for a good headline though.
Umm, it isn't just a headline if the policy puts the kibosh on the actual activity they've been involved in for nearly 100 years.
perdidochas
04-26-2018, 12:21
I wonder if there was some incident or injury that cost the school money precipitating this rationale and subsequent decision.
Not in any story I've read about them.
nsherry61
04-26-2018, 12:33
Alas, we are a litigious society, and with law suit rewards big enough to drive even significant sized corporations out of business, over-caution is prudent when trying to avoid liability. Sadly, business prudence most often does not line up well with the wishes, desires, and freedoms of adventurous people.
Outing club is NOT disbanding. Update posted to
http://sites.psu.edu/outingclub/
Per the Outing Club's recent announcement posted above, they've been complaining about the University's mention of "alcohol related abuses" in some of the press about this too. There are no such instances documented, no injuries, just a legal assessment. And it's awfully suspicious, of course, that the official University-sponsored, staff-led trips (which presumably make some money for the college) are being kept on but the student-led ones get the ax.
I can only assume that they made the decision to stay as as a "club that can't go outside" as a pretext for getting like-minded people together to arrange unofficial trips (which of course will probably end up being less safe, but nicely "unaffiliated").
It looks like they jumped through all the hoops and still got shut down due to someone's intuition. I've seen this happen more and more often. Someone is put in change of risk management, safety, etc. They're typically the overly cautious type. The sort that watches the big media news outlets and then loses sleep over one-in-a-million or one-in-a-billion events. Their job (IMO) is to make sure that people complete tasks, projects, or activities safety. That participants take necessary precautions. But instead they act as an insurmountable roadblock. The only way to do something safely is to NOT do it. Move on to something more pedestrian. Watch a movie. Go shopping. Pitch your tent on the lawn of Old Main...
Roll Tide
04-26-2018, 16:16
Back when I was a student at the University of Alabama they offered a Backpacking class which was a PE course. I remember 5 or 6 of us getting in the back of our professor's pickup truck and heading out to Talladega National Forest and letting us out 1 at a time at various locations to find our was back to a designated pickup point. All we had was our backpack and tent, a compass and a map. This was Friday afternoon and we were picked up Sunday afternoon. I'm guessing that would not happen today!
Here’s a joke (with a grain of truth) disclaimer that made its way around the AT management community a while ago:
Notice to All Trail Users†
The Appalachian Trail is a dangerous place. There are poisonous snakes, bees, bears, unpredictable weather, hazard trees, rocks, roots, bumps and humps in the Trail, thieves, murderers, drunks, vagabonds, areas that are slippery when wet, areas that will make you wet, areas that are always wet, bridges, rivers and streams without bridges, hunters with guns, hikers with guns, drop-offs, jump-ups, unmarked road crossings, unoccupied structures, untested and possibly contaminated water supplies, lightning, and many, many other situations that may cause death or permanent disability.
You may become hypothermic, or hyperthermic, or contract any number of diseases; you may suffer a heart attack, heat stroke, or heat exhaustion, carpel tunnel syndrome and sore knees; or you may die of thirst.
However, the Trail is, according to available statistics, safer than virtually every community in America.
Sojourn at your own risk,
and by your own, unaided efforts.
The world can be a dangerous place, so let’s never go there (especially if we might be liable).Cosmo