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View Full Version : Have you ever seen these on the trail?



twilight
05-13-2018, 08:37
I have been section hiking on the AT for a long time and have seen how things have changed, especially with technology. But, I came across these42693lo(first one I didn't get picture of) on a recent hike in MA. One at the intersection with Kay Wood shelter the other near the road crossing at Blotz RD. Both set at a level to record hikers. I wasn't really crazy about finding the first one and really found it disturbing about the second one. Just wonder8how others felt about these or thoughts of what they were for.

Twilight

cmoulder
05-13-2018, 08:44
Hunter's game cam. But who put it there and why... dunno.

One would expect that gummint types might put up a sign explaining that they're just trying to get a head count for trail use.

nsherry61
05-13-2018, 09:33
I found a couple behind my house on some of our private land last year. As it turns out some neighbors were hunting on the land, which I don't mind in the least, but since they didn't have the decency to let us know they were putting up game cameras and a tree stand, I figured they were fair game for me. So I pulled them down, downloaded the images they captured, mostly not very exciting, a few deer. I deleted the pictures of me coming up onto the cameras, then uploaded some sasquatch and bear pictures and put them back.

So, now I recommend carrying an SD card reader that works with your phone. Keep a few pictures on your phone that will make you laugh to think about the camera owner seeing them when they download their camera. Then make sure to have some fun whenever you come upon one without a sign that tells you it's legit and not just some random hunter or curious person taking your picture without permission.

Go out and hike and have fun!! Mess with peoples minds and have even more fun. :-?

soumodeler
05-13-2018, 09:56
The ATC or GATC had one located inside a birdhouse directly on the trail just north of the Springer parking lot a few years ago. I am assuming it was used to try and track the number of hikers starting.

nsherry61
05-13-2018, 12:55
Just remember where these are on June 21st. :-? :eek:

FreeGoldRush
05-13-2018, 21:51
Yet another reason to get far off the trail when digging a cat hole.

chknfngrs
05-13-2018, 21:54
Nah if they want to see something let them SEE something

rmitchell
05-14-2018, 07:15
I saw one near Wind Road north of Pearisburg a few years ago. It had a sign attached that it was a university study of wildlife.

Also there was one at Cosby Shelter last year when it was closed due to bear activity. It also had a sign attached by the National Park Service not to disturb.

Weather-man
05-14-2018, 07:16
Wasn't there just a shooting in GA, not AT related iirc, and they caught the shooter via some pics on a trail cam? I think these are more common than you'd think.

perrymk
05-14-2018, 07:36
Mess with peoples minds and have even more fun. :-?

I've been looking for an SD card reader for my iPhone for archiving/sending my photos (vacation, etc.) But now I have even more motivation. :banana

Gambit McCrae
05-14-2018, 08:06
I have seen 1 or 2....always a full moon when I pass by them...:banana

twilight
05-14-2018, 15:02
I don't think I would have been so disturbed by the cameras had there been some signage about intended purpose. But not seeing anything and the way the cameras were positioned were to record who's coming down the trail. The camera at the Kay Wood shelter intersection I was able to rationalize and say maybe it's there to record who's going in and out shelter since its only .3 mile from a road. But, when I ran in to the other camera a few miles a way at Blotz RD, that just didn't feel right.

Twilight

bamboo bob
05-14-2018, 15:41
Just Igame gamera not a very good way to count hikers.

Tundracamper
05-14-2018, 17:34
You do realize that when you are outside, particularly on public land, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy? Someone can also walk by and snap a photo of you and there's not much you can do about it.

Deadeye
05-14-2018, 17:41
I've seen a few. I just smile at them. Considered going back and forth in front of it all day long, or doing a one-man rendition of Lawrence of Arabia, just for kicks.

soilman
05-14-2018, 17:59
You do realize that when you are outside, particularly on public land, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy? Someone can also walk by and snap a photo of you and there's not much you can do about it.
I agree. They could be for research purposes and putting signage may draw attention to them and invite vandalism. They could be hunters if on public hunting land. I have a couple on my property, one along my drive and another in a remote field. I use them to monitor unwanted visitors and trespassers.

nsherry61
05-14-2018, 18:20
You do realize that when you are outside, particularly on public land, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy? Someone can also walk by and snap a photo of you and there's not much you can do about it.
Yeah, but I'd still be creeped out if some guy was covered in camo hiding behind a tree and taking my picture which is pretty much what these game cameras are.


If they don't have any ownership and/or contact info on them, I assume they are fair game to screw with. . . not to steal mind you, not do damage, and not to delete pictures (other than pictures of me) off of. But sure as heck to screw around with, cover up, turn off, download pictures from, upload pictures to, flash my bare ass at or whatever. If the owner doesn't have the decency or sense of responsibility to share their contact info, the camera has no right to be their anonymously taking pictures!!

Wouldn't it be cool if there were cameras on the trail with web sites listed on them showing the actual wildlife (not identifiable people) pictures so we could all share in the photography bounty of an area we visited? I'd go for that.

Cosmo
05-15-2018, 08:34
They are cameras from the local club. The one at Warner Hill was tampered with, despite having the owner's name and phone number engraved on it.

They are providing important information on the actual number of hikers on the Trail and entering/leaving the campsite. We'll use this info in figuring out where to put our club resources (do we have enough tentsites at Kay Wood, for instance). Much better than guessing, or from sporadic reports from Ridgerunners. We don't keep the image files, they are erased as soon as we make the count. We have no need for any data other than numbers of hikers on a given day and their direction. Camera is not placed in any campsites--ever.

Definitely, we should have provided an info tag on the units and will do so on our next visit. FYI similar cameras are currently installed on the Mass Pike footbridge by a local conservation organization to document it as a wildlife corridor. They are clearly labeled.

We share the counts with our state and federal partners--and anyone else who wants it. PM me and I'll share a google doc with the current data if you are interested.

Cosmo



Yeah, but I'd still be creeped out if some guy was covered in camo hiding behind a tree and taking my picture which is pretty much what these game cameras are.


If they don't have any ownership and/or contact info on them, I assume they are fair game to screw with. . . not to steal mind you, not do damage, and not to delete pictures (other than pictures of me) off of. But sure as heck to screw around with, cover up, turn off, download pictures from, upload pictures to, flash my bare ass at or whatever. If the owner doesn't have the decency or sense of responsibility to share their contact info, the camera has no right to be their anonymously taking pictures!!

Wouldn't it be cool if there were cameras on the trail with web sites listed on them showing the actual wildlife (not identifiable people) pictures so we could all share in the photography bounty of an area we visited? I'd go for that.

rickb
05-15-2018, 08:57
In my opinion, placing a hidden camera in the woods (public property) in places that people are likely to congregate is wrong. Very wrong.

Especially when the camera is placed with the express intent to photograph people who are likely to be wholey unaware of the camera’s presence.

In my opinion, it hardly matters if the camera was placed with good intentions — though I would probably be OK with law enforcement doing this in any number number of scenarios.

Again, just one opinion.

nsherry61
05-15-2018, 09:12
They are cameras from the local club. . . They are providing important information on the actual number of hikers on the Trail and entering/leaving the campsite. We'll use this info in figuring out where to put our club resources . . .
Personally, I think that is awesome. I'll still upload some bigfoot pictures onto it if it isn't tagged with owner info. But thanks, really, for you contribution to our community!!

In my opinion, placing a hidden camera in the woods (public property) in places that people are likely to congregate is wrong. Very wrong. . . — though I would probably be OK with law enforcement doing this in any number number of scenarios. . .
All I can say is if it is a law enforcement camera, it better be tagged with owner information or it's still fair game in my book.

And, in the end, as creepy as hidden cameras feel, there really isn't a lot of harm that can come of them. If someone photographs me taking a dump or doing other private, maybe embarrassing type things, and I never know it's done or what the photographer is doing with those images in the privacy of his or her home, it really doesn't affect me. And, if the images ever go public without my permission, the photographer would be in serious legal trouble and I might make a little spare money to support my next backpacking trip.

rickb
05-15-2018, 09:38
After reading Cosmo’s post more carefully, I do have to say that his club’s policy of deleating all photo’s immediately as well as never putting he cameras in camp helps address most of my concerns.

If the cameras are here to stay (still hope they are not) I would think those kinds of policies are important — I would like to see even more limitations, though.

Perhaps limiting them to 100 yards of the trailhead, for example.

In any event, I would never vandalize one placed to photograph people, but I can understand how others might think differently.

Tennessee Viking
05-15-2018, 09:47
1. The local AT club/ATC are doing a traffic impact study
2. Capture illegal traffic/activities


When doing animal studies, I usually placed the cameras at least 100 yards off trail & pointed away and usually on game trails. Some of my clubs have placed cameras at dump sites near or on trail.

maptester
05-15-2018, 11:44
This video shows what a video from the images might look like. Animals and people sharing the hiking trail at Shenandoah National Park (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63boA2czpaU)

soilman
05-15-2018, 12:06
There are cameras everywhere today. This is the reality of the 21st century.

nsherry61
05-15-2018, 12:42
This video shows what a video from the images might look like. Animals and people sharing the hiking trail at Shenandoah National Park (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63boA2czpaU)
Awesome video. I want to know if the video is a complete feed suggesting that that bear actual spent more time near the camera than all the hikers combined. Hmm.

twilight
05-15-2018, 13:17
Yes, video is pretty cool. But, from camera angle one can tell that recording wildlife was the intended subject. The humans were not the main focus of this camera shot as the ones I encountered in MA.

Soilman, I agree, it's the reality of the 21st century. Being said from the main installer of cameras in the school district I work for. I do not expect to find cameras to record people on a wilderness trail where one goes to retreat from the 21st century for a little while.

Thanks Cosmo for information you provided about the cameras. I am the guy in the long sleeve black shirt flipping the camera the bird at Kay Wood shelter intersection on 5/11/18.

twilight
05-15-2018, 13:21
Oh, Cosmo, that was around 7:30 in the morning on 5/11/18.

Twilight

rickb
05-15-2018, 16:28
I may have seen this on WB before, but it’s worth checking out.

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC1jtdLcctcx6sWjsmiyuaoQ

Not sure how far from the AT; the Trail Cam was somewhere in PA.

The log might not be in the Wilderness by the way some define it, but it sure looks to be paradise to me.

Time Zone
05-15-2018, 20:55
I may have seen this on WB before, but it’s worth checking out.

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC1jtdLcctcx6sWjsmiyuaoQ



Awesome! Thanks for the link.

w/r/t the topic, seems to me trail cam existence should be disclosed to hikers, right? I mean, if you're relieving yourself ... thinking no one is around. And sorry, in this age, I don't trust "we promise to delete them." Most people would ... but given enough people and enough cams, there will be someone who won't, for whatever reason.

Traffic Jam
05-15-2018, 21:42
In my opinion, placing a hidden camera in the woods (public property) in places that people are likely to congregate is wrong. Very wrong.

Especially when the camera is placed with the express intent to photograph people who are likely to be wholey unaware of the camera’s presence.

In my opinion, it hardly matters if the camera was placed with good intentions — though I would probably be OK with law enforcement doing this in any number number of scenarios.

Again, just one opinion.

I’m with you. It’s one thing when used for security purposes on private property. When it’s placed in an area where it’s not expected and with no signage?...that’s too close to voyeurism. I don’t go to the woods to be spied on.

Traveler
05-16-2018, 06:53
Right or wrong, there is no reasonable expectation of privacy on public lands or rights of way. Anyone has the same legal right to place a camera in these places as those who pass through these places. Though signs on cameras like this are nice, it is not required anymore than hikers having to display their names and address on their persons.

That said, I would think providing a sign of why the camera is there would be a good idea to prevent vandalism from those who are tempted to vandalize them out of ignorance.

Traffic Jam
05-16-2018, 08:01
Right or wrong, there is no reasonable expectation of privacy on public lands or rights of way. Anyone has the same legal right to place a camera in these places as those who pass through these places. Though signs on cameras like this are nice, it is not required anymore than hikers having to display their names and address on their persons.

That said, I would think providing a sign of why the camera is there would be a good idea to prevent vandalism from those who are tempted to vandalize them out of ignorance.

To a certain extent, there is no expectation of privacy in the backcountry. When i change my clothes or go to the bathroom, there’s a chance someone will see. However, my expectation of the backcountry experience is that there are trees, bears, birds, deer, mountain laurel, maybe other hikers, peace, and solitude. Not hidden cameras.

Traffic Jam
05-16-2018, 08:23
... admittedly, the camera that Time Zone and I saw on the Cumberland Trail didnt bother me too much because it was prominently displayed and not positioned near a shelter or campsite. We even had a bit of fun with it. :)

john844
05-16-2018, 09:57
... admittedly, the camera that Time Zone and I saw on the Cumberland Trail didnt bother me too much because it was prominently displayed and not positioned near a shelter or campsite. We even had a bit of fun with it. :)

I also saw one on the Cumberland Trail. It surprised me and caused me to spend more time looking around the area to see what they were watching.

Traffic Jam
05-16-2018, 10:19
I also saw one on the Cumberland Trail. It surprised me and caused me to spend more time looking around the area to see what they were watching.
Did you dance a jig? ;)

Cosmo
05-16-2018, 11:20
Thanks for the message Twilight...

Just swapped over the card. PM me before tomorrow if you want a souvenir.

Hope you had a good hike,

Cosmo


Oh, Cosmo, that was around 7:30 in the morning on 5/11/18.

Twilight

Cosmo
05-16-2018, 11:37
To a certain extent, there is no expectation of privacy in the backcountry. When i change my clothes or go to the bathroom, there’s a chance someone will see. However, my expectation of the backcountry experience is that there are trees, bears, birds, deer, mountain laurel, maybe other hikers, peace, and solitude. Not hidden cameras.

I have to say, I have mixed feelings about this, too. But the seemingly ever-growing visitor use on the Trail is (at times) a significant issue. If we are going to actually try and address it, we need some hard data to share with our management partners (and hikers) as we decide if, how, and when anything can or should be done about it. It's an extremely complex issue that will need some thoughtful attention. For more info, see: https://visitorusemanagement.nps.gov/VUM/Framework

If our initial data proves to be helpful, it may be more efficient (and less icky) to use "dumb" sensors that just detect movement past a certain point (CT does this already), but it's difficult to determine direction (and the difference between hikers and other mammals) w/o multiple sensor points. We are making a durable label (it's just tape for now) and will prominently place them on the camera.

In the past 3 weeks, we've had 46 overnight visitors, with a max of 9 on one night. 7 nights w/o visitors. Camp season has not started and just the leading edge of NB thruhikers is arriving now.

Cosmo

gpburdelljr
05-16-2018, 12:19
I have to say, I have mixed feelings about this, too. But the seemingly ever-growing visitor use on the Trail is (at times) a significant issue. If we are going to actually try and address it, we need some hard data to share with our management partners (and hikers) as we decide if, how, and when anything can or should be done about it. It's an extremely complex issue that will need some thoughtful attention. For more info, see: https://visitorusemanagement.nps.gov/VUM/Framework

If our initial data proves to be helpful, it may be more efficient (and less icky) to use "dumb" sensors that just detect movement past a certain point (CT does this already), but it's difficult to determine direction (and the difference between hikers and other mammals) w/o multiple sensor points. We are making a durable label (it's just tape for now) and will prominently place them on the camera.

In the past 3 weeks, we've had 46 overnight visitors, with a max of 9 on one night. 7 nights w/o visitors. Camp season has not started and just the leading edge of NB thruhikers is arriving now.

Cosmo
I would think a filter over the lens to blur the image enough that no individual was recognizable, except as being a person and not an animal, would alleviate privacy concerns.

john844
05-16-2018, 13:03
Did you dance a jig? ;)
I'm not admitting anything until I know what evidence exists. Lol

Time Zone
05-16-2018, 15:29
Anyone has the same legal right to place a camera in these places as those who pass through these places.

You may be right, but I would be surprised.

Being out in public places and carrying a camera is one thing. And you're right, there's generally no right to privacy if you're out in public. If you see other hikers, you get out of sight to do #1 or #2. If you're talking, people may overhear. I get that.

But installing a camera for use when you are no longer there - strikes me as another matter entirely. Seems to me you either better own the land yourself, or get permission from those who manage it on the public's behalf. And if you do, its existence ought to be disclosed. Probably location should be disclosed too, given what good hydration habits often requires of hikers.

twilight
05-16-2018, 18:19
Cosmo, I am going to pass on the souvenir and please just consider me another deleted statistic. Wasn't one of my better moments anyway.

I compliment you on your ability to relate the intention of the cameras to ascertain statistical information on trail usage in the area. Also you admitting personally of your uneasy feeling about the cameras being put in place. I think from the flavor of the posts here most of us would agree that some signage be put in place explaining the intentions of the cameras would be appropriate. I think most hikers/people would likely find that acceptable when given a rational explanation. Please consider that request. Thx.

Twilight

twilight
05-16-2018, 18:19
Cosmo, I am going to pass on the souvenir and please just consider me another deleted statistic. Wasn't one of my better moments anyway.

I compliment you on your ability to relate the intention of the cameras to ascertain statistical information on trail usage in the area. Also you admitting personally of your uneasy feeling about the cameras being put in place. I think from the flavor of the posts here most of us would agree that some signage be put in place explaining the intentions of the cameras would be appropriate. I think most hikers/people would likely find that acceptable when given a rational explanation. Please consider that request. Thx.

Twilight

MuddyWaters
05-16-2018, 20:49
I used to build trail cameras and run several of them on my hunting lease much of the year. It's honestly more fun to take pictures of animals than it is to hunt them. I've got all kind of pictures of weird stuff you never expect to see in the woods. From a emu standing on top of a corn feeder, to a coyote with a fawns leg in its mouth, to trespassers.

As part of this I used to frequent an online trail cam forum. that's where I learned how to build the cameras i built, how to convert them to infrared , where to buy the control boards.etc. I was building way better cameras then you could buy at the time. With exceptional battery life. They could stay out for almost a month and take hundreds of pictures on 2 AA nicads.

Point is , it was evident a lot of people get cameras stolen off a private property and public property. Even when locked to the trees and moderately camoflauged. And if people couldn't steal it, they destroyed it so they could get the memory card out.

People really just do not like having their picture taken . An agency should definitely put a sign on it stating what it's for.

Longboysfan
05-17-2018, 16:49
I found a couple behind my house on some of our private land last year. As it turns out some neighbors were hunting on the land, which I don't mind in the least, but since they didn't have the decency to let us know they were putting up game cameras and a tree stand, I figured they were fair game for me. So I pulled them down, downloaded the images they captured, mostly not very exciting, a few deer. I deleted the pictures of me coming up onto the cameras, then uploaded some sasquatch and bear pictures and put them back.

So, now I recommend carrying an SD card reader that works with your phone. Keep a few pictures on your phone that will make you laugh to think about the camera owner seeing them when they download their camera. Then make sure to have some fun whenever you come upon one without a sign that tells you it's legit and not just some random hunter or curious person taking your picture without permission.

Go out and hike and have fun!! Mess with peoples minds and have even more fun. :-?

Now that was funny....

Longboysfan
05-17-2018, 16:52
I've seen a few. I just smile at them. Considered going back and forth in front of it all day long, or doing a one-man rendition of Lawrence of Arabia, just for kicks.

You can set off the camera with motion.
But it only takes pictures when the time delay is hit.
Maybe 30 seconds between each.

blw2
05-17-2018, 20:30
I keep an RV in a storage lot.....just an old field with a fence around it and a padlock on the gate....low tech.
Some time ago I noticed the owner put up one of these cams looking towards the gate......I contacted the owner just to make sure it was him....and I thought great, a little more 'security'. No problem....

Some time later I notice one up in the shadows of a barn in the back of the lot.... facing the rear of where my RV was parked at the time......

Then I remembered
going back there to take a leak when nobody was around....

I recon he deleted those pictures pretty fast....at least I would hope so! I know I would have, and tried really hard to erase the image from my memory.