Bear problem at Thomas Knob

[wolfywolfy]

Listed on the ATC website "Problem Bear Activity - Mt. Rogers/Thomas Knob Shelter (05/10/2018) Problem bear activity has been reported at Thomas Knob Shelter in the Mount Rogers National Recreation Area in southwest Virginia, mile 498.5 from Springer Mountain, Georgia."

In reddit found this "I did an overnight up there last night. Was camping north of the shelter near the water source at the crest trail. A guy from the ATC was going around the sites warning people about the problem bear so I made sure I had an extra good hang.

About 1 in the morning I woke up to bear horns and people yelling "no bear, get on bear" a few campsites away. That seemed to scare it off but I did hear the horn again about an hour later. Needless to say I didn't sleep very much.

[JPritch]

I can confirm. Camped 25 yards S of Thomas Knob shelter Sat night and saw the signs, spoke to the ridge runner. Luckily the bear did not come into our campsite, but it did get into some bags hung in the area, including making off with my campmate's Ursack forcing him off the trail to resupply. I suspect it will keep coming back nightly as it's found a consistent food supply. As popular an area as it is, it could really use some cables/poles. Good branches are very hard to come by up there as it's mostly pines and the other trees are very dry rotted. I did a less than ideal hang myself, and a determined bear could probably have made off with mine, but I guess there were even less ideal hangs than mine that night. If you plan to head up there, I'd recommend a bear can unfortunately.

[steve_zavocki]

I have a trip planned this coming weekend and I need to stay in the vicinity of Thomas Knob area on Saturday night. I am hiking with my four oldest children ages ranging from 17-7. I planned this weekend, thinking there will be less people on the trails because most will be at nearby Trail Days.

I have heard about these bear issues on FB, and trying figure out my best options. Please share your opinion of my best option, and why.

1) Try to hang anyway, even though the trees looks far less than idea for the task. Hope the bear finds a worse hang than me.
2) Sleep with my food in tent, keep air horn handy if I hear Yogi sniffing around.
3) Camp down the trail 0.8 at Rhododendron Gap and hope there are enough people that there is safety in numbers

[TNhiker]

2) Sleep with my food in tent, keep air horn handy if I hear Yogi sniffing around.



i would not do this one............at all................not if there are already problem bears in the area...

but thats just me............your safety is your safety afterall (in the style of hyoh)........

[Southeast]

I have a trip planned this coming weekend and I need to stay in the vicinity of Thomas Knob area on Saturday night. I am hiking with my four oldest children ages ranging from 17-7. I planned this weekend, thinking there will be less people on the trails because most will be at nearby Trail Days.

I have heard about these bear issues on FB, and trying figure out my best options. Please share your opinion of my best option, and why.

1) Try to hang anyway, even though the trees looks far less than idea for the task. Hope the bear finds a worse hang than me.
2) Sleep with my food in tent, keep air horn handy if I hear Yogi sniffing around.
3) Camp down the trail 0.8 at Rhododendron Gap and hope there are enough people that there is safety in numbers

Why do you need to stay at or near Thomas Knob?
Plenty of other places to camp in Grayson Highlands.

[steve_zavocki]

Starting at Beartree Gap (481.9), ending at Fox Creek (511.2). Start 3PM Friday, and hike 4.2 to Lost Mountain shelter and camp. Then 12.4 to Thomas Knob, and that leaves 12.7 for Sunday. I am hiking with my kids, and they can't do big miles. I want to make it fun for them and not a forced march.

My 7 year old is tough and did 13.5 on the AT once in a day, but that was pushing it. There really isn't any other good option other than Rhododendron Gap which is close enough to have the same issue.

[KCNC]

I can confirm. Camped 25 yards S of Thomas Knob shelter Sat night and saw the signs, spoke to the ridge runner. Luckily the bear did not come into our campsite, but it did get into some bags hung in the area, including making off with my campmate's Ursack forcing him off the trail to resupply. I suspect it will keep coming back nightly as it's found a consistent food supply. As popular an area as it is, it could really use some cables/poles. Good branches are very hard to come by up there as it's mostly pines and the other trees are very dry rotted. I did a less than ideal hang myself, and a determined bear could probably have made off with mine, but I guess there were even less ideal hangs than mine that night. If you plan to head up there, I'd recommend a bear can unfortunately.

Sunday night he made off with 4 bags, all hung PCT-style. He climbed the tree and broke off the limb. (One of the 4 was my son.) Fortunately he was able to recover all of his kitchen gear, so he just had to hike 2 miles for breakfast after cleaning up the mess.

He said the guy at the Highlands Store hasn't been able to keep his shelf stocked because of the bear.

I saw earlier that they're planning to trap him. The local economy is about to take a hit.

[SWODaddy]

I can confirm. Camped 25 yards S of Thomas Knob shelter Sat night and saw the signs, spoke to the ridge runner. Luckily the bear did not come into our campsite, but it did get into some bags hung in the area, including making off with my campmate's Ursack forcing him off the trail to resupply. I suspect it will keep coming back nightly as it's found a consistent food supply. As popular an area as it is, it could really use some cables/poles. Good branches are very hard to come by up there as it's mostly pines and the other trees are very dry rotted. I did a less than ideal hang myself, and a determined bear could probably have made off with mine, but I guess there were even less ideal hangs than mine that night. If you plan to head up there, I'd recommend a bear can unfortunately.

Yeah, I've camped there several times and there is nowhere good to hang a bear bag. You're basically just advertising your food.

[SWODaddy]

I can confirm. Camped 25 yards S of Thomas Knob shelter Sat night and saw the signs, spoke to the ridge runner. Luckily the bear did not come into our campsite, but it did get into some bags hung in the area, including making off with my campmate's Ursack forcing him off the trail to resupply. I suspect it will keep coming back nightly as it's found a consistent food supply. As popular an area as it is, it could really use some cables/poles. Good branches are very hard to come by up there as it's mostly pines and the other trees are very dry rotted. I did a less than ideal hang myself, and a determined bear could probably have made off with mine, but I guess there were even less ideal hangs than mine that night. If you plan to head up there, I'd recommend a bear can unfortunately.

Yeah, I've camped there several times and there is nowhere good to hang a bear bag. You're basically just advertising your food.

[MuddyWaters]

I have a trip planned this coming weekend and I need to stay in the vicinity of Thomas Knob area on Saturday night. I am hiking with my four oldest children ages ranging from 17-7. I planned this weekend, thinking there will be less people on the trails because most will be at nearby Trail Days.

I have heard about these bear issues on FB, and trying figure out my best options. Please share your opinion of my best option, and why.

1) Try to hang anyway, even though the trees looks far less than idea for the task. Hope the bear finds a worse hang than me.
2) Sleep with my food in tent, keep air horn handy if I hear Yogi sniffing around.
3) Camp down the trail 0.8 at Rhododendron Gap and hope there are enough people that there is safety in numbers

4. Bring a bear cannister and quit worrying about it

[Southeast]

Starting at Beartree Gap (481.9), ending at Fox Creek (511.2). Start 3PM Friday, and hike 4.2 to Lost Mountain shelter and camp. Then 12.4 to Thomas Knob, and that leaves 12.7 for Sunday. I am hiking with my kids, and they can't do big miles. I want to make it fun for them and not a forced march.

My 7 year old is tough and did 13.5 on the AT once in a day, but that was pushing it. There really isn't any other good option other than Rhododendron Gap which is close enough to have the same issue.

Understood. I guess I was thinking you could do a different loop. I’ve spent 2-3 days on a 14 mike loop with my kids and wife just poking around GH and exploring every overlook.
Anyway be safe and have fun.

[Uncle Joe]

I wonder if they're planning to capture and relocate it or something.

[MuddyWaters]

I wonder if they're planning to capture and relocate it or something.
Probably.

When what they should do is recognize it as a sign of overuse, close the area to camping , and institute food storage restrictions.

Relocating Wildlife isn't the right answer, when its the people that are the problem. But that's always the easier solution, and the reason why we have so little wild lands left. Anything that is incompatible with exploitation of land gets removed. From cougars, to Grizzlies, to Native Americans, to black bears. History says it all.

[steve_zavocki]

Sunday night he made off with 4 bags, all hung PCT-style. He climbed the tree and broke off the limb. (One of the 4 was my son.) Fortunately he was able to recover all of his kitchen gear, so he just had to hike 2 miles for breakfast after cleaning up the mess.

He said the guy at the Highlands Store hasn't been able to keep his shelf stocked because of the bear.

I saw earlier that they're planning to trap him. The local economy is about to take a hit.

Hi KCNC,

Can you shed light on the source where you heard this information. I would like to reach out to see if this has happened yet. I am thinking that if it is going to happen they would do it soon. After Trail Days ends, there will be a large number of hikers heading through next Monday - Wednesday.

thanks!!!

[steve_zavocki]

Ok, I did some calling around. First to Grayson Highlands SP and then to the Forest Service that manages the Thomas Knob area. Both times the phone was answered on the first ring by a knowledgeable person onsite (that is not something to be taked for granted, so Kudos to both).

Both acknowledged that the trees there are not good for hanging bear bags. The lady said that continued hanging of bear bags on trees unsuitable for the task will only encourage the bear.

They are considering trapping the bear but my take is they are still figuring out the logistics if and how they will go about it. Nothing has been done yet.

***However, yesterday the forest service did go up there and left some loaner bear canisters for hikers to use. A big thanks to the forest service for their timely response to this problem for us caught in the middle, while they decide on the best long term solution for the hikers and the bear. ***

[Gambit McCrae]

A simple bear box and better LNT principles would eliminate all of this. This place, like the smokies and Roan Mountain SP get a lot of folks on their yearly "big Backpacking trip" with their trash and glamor...they tramps around for a weekend and head home for the year. Meanwhile people that use the trails all year reap the benefits of ignorance and apathetic one timers.

[Berserker]

4. Bring a bear cannister and quit worrying about it


***However, yesterday the forest service did go up there and left some loaner bear canisters for hikers to use. A big thanks to the forest service for their timely response to this problem for us caught in the middle, while they decide on the best long term solution for the hikers and the bear. ***
Use a bear canister if you are going to stay up there (easy for me to say because I already own one). If you don't own one then maybe you can snag one of the loaners. As other have stated there are not a lot of trees to hang off of up there, and it sounds like this particular bear has become wise to the hangs anyway.

[Berserker]

A simple bear box and better LNT principles would eliminate all of this. This place, like the smokies and Roan Mountain SP get a lot of folks on their yearly "big Backpacking trip" with their trash and glamor...they tramps around for a weekend and head home for the year. Meanwhile people that use the trails all year reap the benefits of ignorance and apathetic one timers.
I used to go up there and base camp right in that area at least once a year, and I'm shocked there hasn't been a bear problem sooner with the amount of people that go up there. So yeah, I agree that a bear box or two installed at the shelter and near the big open areas near Rhododendron Gap would likely resolve the issue.

[TNhiker]

this was posted on FB today via the ATC...


"Due to an increase in bear activity near Thomas Knob Shelter — including multiple instances of campers' food being taken by a bear — two new boxes have been installed for overnight storage of hiker food. While the shelter remains open for now, hikers are highly advised to camp elsewhere if possible and to make extra effort to hang their food properly in Southwest Virginia. The entire Appalachian Trail is home to black bears, and one hiker's improperly stored food can lead to negative wildlife encounters for the hikers who follow. For more information, visit "

[Sarcasm the elf]

The ATC just posted this update on their Facebook page.

42724

Edit: Dang it TN Hiker, you beat me by 30 seconds! :D

[Gambit McCrae]

this was posted on FB today via the ATC...


"Due to an increase in bear activity near Thomas Knob Shelter — including multiple instances of campers' food being taken by a bear — two new boxes have been installed for overnight storage of hiker food. While the shelter remains open for now, hikers are highly advised to camp elsewhere if possible and to make extra effort to hang their food properly in Southwest Virginia. The entire Appalachian Trail is home to black bears, and one hiker's improperly stored food can lead to negative wildlife encounters for the hikers who follow. For more information, visit "


Wow they took my advice seriously and acted very quickly :) lol

[stephanD]

I own a bear canister, but never used it. I'm planning to do Virginia this summer, and I seriously considering to use it for the first time, along with my bear spray. significant weight increase though.

[Sandy of PA]

Thomas Knob is very highly used by locals and distance hikers. I stayed there last June on a Sat night with over 100 of my new best friends! I carry a canister, so easy.

[Lone Wolf]

don't camp any where near those damn shelters and sleep with your food and you'll be fine

[Skyline]

don't camp any where near those damn shelters and sleep with your food and you'll be fine

I agree with the first part.

[tagg]

don't camp any where near those damn shelters and sleep with your food and you'll be fine
That’s exactly what I did when I went through there, and you’re right...I was fine.

[dankwizard22]

Listed on the ATC website "Problem Bear Activity - Mt. Rogers/Thomas Knob Shelter (05/10/2018) Problem bear activity has been reported at Thomas Knob Shelter in the Mount Rogers National Recreation Area in southwest Virginia, mile 498.5 from Springer Mountain, Georgia."

In reddit found this "I did an overnight up there last night. Was camping north of the shelter near the water source at the crest trail. A guy from the ATC was going around the sites warning people about the problem bear so I made sure I had an extra good hang.

About 1 in the morning I woke up to bear horns and people yelling "no bear, get on bear" a few campsites away. That seemed to scare it off but I did hear the horn again about an hour later. Needless to say I didn't sleep very much.

Long time lurker here....just made an account to say that was my reddit post! But yeah....tons of people were camping near me with terrible hangs. I heard the ridge runner telling a guy close by he had a poor hang because it was literally 4 feet from his tent and 4 feet off the ground. The guy said he was used to problem bears since he does a lot of camping in the Smokies. Sigh.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Long time lurker here....just made an account to say that was my reddit post! But yeah....tons of people were camping near me with terrible hangs. I heard the ridge runner telling a guy close by he had a poor hang because it was literally 4 feet from his tent and 4 feet off the ground. The guy said he was used to problem bears since he does a lot of camping in the Smokies. Sigh.

One of the many reasons I stopped using bear hangs years ago. After trying several other methods I’ve been surprisingly happy with carrying a BV500.

42745

[Heliotrope]

One of the many reasons I stopped using bear hangs years ago. After trying several other methods I’ve been surprisingly happy with carrying a BV500.

42745

This really needs to be made into a wall calendar!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JPritch]

Sunday night he made off with 4 bags, all hung PCT-style. He climbed the tree and broke off the limb. (One of the 4 was my son.) Fortunately he was able to recover all of his kitchen gear, so he just had to hike 2 miles for breakfast after cleaning up the mess.


That was my issue, I had it high enough and far out enough, and did a PCT style hang....but the branch itself looked weak as $hit and I just knew a determined bear could pounce on it a few times and knock the entire branch down. I was just lucky that night.

...but good to see bear boxes put in up there. Great solution, assuming people use them. That area has absolutely gorgeous camping/views, so I understand its popularity.

[martinb]

Hopefully the bear boxes don't become trash receptacles.

[Lone Wolf]

Hopefully the bear boxes don't become trash receptacles.

oh they will. count on that

[TNhiker]

oh they will. count on that



yeah....

thats pretty much a guarantee.........

[carouselambra]

I occasionally browse trail journals and saw a post related to this.

http://www.trailjournals.com/journal/entry/590895
Snippet:
Scissors packed up and we headed for Thomas Knob Shelter. It was a smooth climb to the shelter. When we arrived Pumpkin Spice, Bandito, Chill, and Poncho were there. They mentioned that a bear was trying to break into the bear locker all night long. It even tipped over the locker and tried to dig under it. There was also the remains of a bear bag with empty food packages all over the ground. The owner just left the mess there without packing it out.

[MuddyWaters]

Hopefully the bear boxes don't become trash receptacles.

They become places where selfish lazy people leave things that they convince themselves "others will want"

[Sarcasm the elf]

This really needs to be made into a wall calendar!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wish I could take credit for it, but I stole the photo from Jester. If he’d had taken a photo of all the terrible bear bags on his 2015 hike, he probably could have made a page-a-day calendar.

http://nighthikingtomars.blogspot.com/2015/10/new-calendar-idea-spectacularly-crappy_3.html?m=1

[martinb]

They become places where selfish lazy people leave things that they convince themselves "others will want"

"hmmm if I can get enough of these bar wrappers I can make a groundsheet."

[JPritch]

They become places where selfish lazy people leave things that they convince themselves "others will want"

Like the used boots and empty liquor bottle in Thomas Knob shelter last year. Because hikers really need those.

Scissors packed up and we headed for Thomas Knob Shelter. It was a smooth climb to the shelter. When we arrived Pumpkin Spice, Bandito, Chill, and Poncho were there. They mentioned that a bear was trying to break into the bear locker all night long. It even tipped over the locker and tried to dig under it. There was also the remains of a bear bag with empty food packages all over the ground. The owner just left the mess there without packing it out.
Looks like it worked! It will at least spare the food of anybody using it, but I still think the bear has plenty of options up there with all the campsites for the next .5 mile N of Thomas Knob.

[wolfywolfy]

I plan to hike from fox creek to Damascus very soon and think I will just hike thru this area and camp elsewhere.

[JPritch]

I plan to hike from fox creek to Damascus very soon and think I will just hike thru this area and camp elsewhere.

Yes, but, that stretch up there is GORGEOUS and so are the campsites. It really is hard to pass up if you can snag a pad on top of that ridge.

[MuddyWaters]

Yes, but, that stretch up there is GORGEOUS and so are the campsites. It really is hard to pass up if you can snag a pad on top of that ridge.
Maybe if you like camping with a hundred people

The 1/4 Mile before and after Thomas knob shelter is often packed with people. People that come by the bus load from schools. The campsites arent all that ,and there's really no reason to stop there other than it's a convenient location.

[RuthN]

How effective would an Ursack be in this situation, and where would you store the canister if you know there's an active bear in the area?

[Sarcasm the elf]

How effective would an Ursack be in this situation, and where would you store the canister if you know there's an active bear in the area?

Bear canisters are simply left in a low lying area where they can’t roll away. They’re designed so that bears can’t get a grip on them or carry them off. All they can do is bat them around until they get bored.
I’m not a huge fan of ursaks because if used properly, the bear won’t be able to get the food inside, but the food will still get destroyed and become a mush of crushed food and bear drool inside the bag.

[JPritch]

How effective would an Ursack be in this situation, and where would you store the canister if you know there's an active bear in the area?
Just make sure you secure the Ursack properly. The guy camping next to me had his Ursack taken the night I was up there. But then you still have the crushed/wet food mentioned above.

[wornoutboots]

This bear is a monster!! He came into our camp @ 1 mile N of Thomas Knob on Wednesday (5/16). We had a perfect hang @ 15-18' off the ground & around 6' from the trunk, he swatted at the tree a few time & 5 of us went down there & chased him away & then 10 minutes later we all are laying in our tents & hear a huge crash, he must have been on top of the branch that was @ 6"-8" in diameter & took the whole branch & himself down. He wasn't scared of us at all, standing over his new prize for a long while until got really loud & he wandered off to where we could pick up most of the food strewn all over & then we packed up & hiked out at midnight. I called the ranger station (as the warning sign says to do) the next morning & got snubbed, with them saying: "yeah we know, we will eventually put a trap up there & catch him. I hope no one gets hurt or killed in the meantime!!! If you are coming through that area, I would not camp up there. I's say this bear is @ 350-400lbs

[martinb]

"eventually"? From your experience it sounds like time is about to run out on someone not getting hurt.

[Siestita]

"This bear is a monster!! He came into our camp @ 1 mile N of Thomas Knob on Wednesday (5/16). We had a perfect hang @ 15-18' off the ground & around 6' from the trunk, he swatted at the tree a few time & 5 of us went down there & chased him away & then 10 minutes later we all are laying in our tents & hear a huge crash, he must have been on top of the branch that was @ 6"-8" in diameter & took the whole branch & himself down. He wasn't scared of us at all, standing over his new prize for a long while until got really loud & he wandered off to where we could pick up most of the food strewn all over & then we packed up & hiked out at midnight. I called the ranger station (as the warning sign says to do) the next morning & got snubbed, with them saying: "yeah we know, we will eventually put a trap up there & catch him. I hope no one gets hurt or killed in the meantime!!! If you are coming through that area, I would not camp up there. I's say this bear is @ 350-400lbs"

Was this a "nuisance bear" or "problem bear"? Obviously, so. Does the potential exist for people to be hurt while trying to defend their food bags during such interactions, Again, the answer is "yes".

But, simply because a Black Bear happens to be very large, has lost its fear of human beings, and has become adept at snagging backpackers' food bags does not make that creature monstrous nor necessarily predatory. Black bears launch predatory attacks on members of our species very, very rarely. They seldom treat our bodies (as opposed to our munchies) as a potential food source. Nothing in the account above indicated that a predatory attack occurred or was likely to take place that night.

It might have been more prudent for the hikers present to have waited until day break before walking out to Massie Gap. That trail has some steep sections where someone could have fallen and become injured in the dark.

[martinb]

I don't think anyone is suggesting a predatory attack. However, in my experience, there are quite a few hikers sleeping with food. This bear is highly likely to try to get at the food inside someone's tent.

[TNhiker]

This bear is highly likely to try to get at the food inside someone's tent




according to reports on FB-----it already has......

[JPritch]

according to reports on FB-----it already has......

Can you share...I don't have The Facebook.


....then 10 minutes later we all are laying in our tents & hear a huge crash, he must have been on top of the branch that was @ 6"-8" in diameter & took the whole branch & himself down...

Not surprised at all. The few non-pine trees up there are so weak and rotted that I figured it wouldn't take much for a bear to bring it down.

[BuckeyeBill]

I have a Ursack AllMitey with the metal liner. If you follow the instructions and tie the bag shut tightly (the knot is basically a double square knot. All of my food is double bagged in odor free bags (not sure if they really work or not). I then find a good downed tree that is about 8-10 inches in diameter and you tie the bag to it again with a double square knot. You need to anchor it to something it can't break or drag away. The metal liner helps protect the food inside.

[TNhiker]

Can you share...I don't have The Facebook.



this is what was posted in an AT section hiker group.....along with some photos of the tent ripped up...




Heads up near Mt Rogers / Grayson Highlands in VA – a major bear incident reported at Thomas Knob Shelter on Sat 5/5 – a bear took down an improperly hung food bag on a branch near a tent and ate it PLUS moved a thru hiker’s tent who was storing food inside it. Moral of the story – hang your food correctly and do not store it in your tent. (first bear pic is not from this incident, 2nd - trashed tent of a thru hiker last year in Shenandoah - he had toothpaste, etc. inside.3rd is a paw print on my tent set up near the thru hiker tent that got nailed. I did not have any smellables in mine.)

[Fredt4]

i would not do this one............at all................not if there are already problem bears in the area...

but thats just me............your safety is your safety afterall (in the style of hyoh)........

I like this option best, never had a bear try to get my food that I was sleeping with. I've seen many hikers lose their hung food. If everyone used this method there would be no problem bears. A poor hang is a bad hang, don't expect the bear to get someone else's hang. 9

[TNhiker]

I like this option best, never had a bear try to get my food that I was sleeping with. I've seen many hikers lose their hung food. If everyone used this method there would be no problem bears.




i would disagree.........

and sadly, in popular areas----there is always going to be problem bears.....

look at this example and spence field from two (?) summers ago...

a problem bear, in both of these cases, tried getting into a tent......

tent may or may not have had food in it............but the bear still tried.....


and that leads to hikers-----how is a hiker going to know which camping area has a problem bear or not?

[BuckeyeBill]

I don't know about sleeping with your food is a good or bad idea, but I have often wondered if the bear can see the bags hanging from tree and associate them with food? The bags should be above their ability the smell them, but again maybe not.

[TNhiker]

but I have often wondered if the bear can see the bags hanging from tree and associate them with food? The bags should be above their ability the smell them, but again maybe not.



yeah.....

bears in the GSMNP have associated bags (along with other things such as tents) with food....

every year at russell field and cosby knob (which is currently closed due to bears)-----the resident bear has been known to run off with backpacks..............

some backpacks have had food----others have not....


also----while the Park provides cables to hang bags from----it's an open faced hook.........

and bears (and other critters) have figured out if they shake the cables, something might fall down with food in it....

and thats why ive been saying for years now----take a carabiner and clip it to the cable that holds the hook...

[wornoutboots]

Not surprised at all. The few non-pine trees up there are so weak and rotted that I figured it wouldn't take much for a bear to bring it down.[/QUOTE]

Our hang was a very strong pine tree. We all heard the large crack & thud. After we saw the bear, it was no surprise it took such a large branch down.

Interesting night!!

[martinb]

----take a carabiner and clip it to the cable that holds the hook...

No doubt about it. I experienced this firsthand at #41 many years ago when a problem bear came in and tried to shake my food bag off the cables. The bear was really moving the thing and the carabiner trick saved the day (errrrr night?).

[steve_zavocki]

I was there last Saturday night. Due to rain, we stayed in the shelter upstairs. The lower portion was full of Boy Scouts. We kept our food in the bear boxes provided by the forest service. The ranger we talked to said that was a temporary solution since Virginia doesn't do bear boxes (not sure why).

A thru hiker we talked to on Sunday said that he saw the bear and he was sitting there watching him put his food bag in the bear box.

There are two bear boxes I saw, one near the shelter and one further down nearer to Rhododendron gap.

[wornoutboots]

"But, simply because a Black Bear happens to be very large, has lost its fear of human beings, and has become adept at snagging backpackers' food bags does not make that creature monstrous nor necessarily predatory. Black bears launch predatory attacks on members of our species very, very rarely. They seldom treat our bodies (as opposed to our munchies) as a potential food source. Nothing in the account above indicated that a predatory attack occurred or was likely to take place that night.

It might have been more prudent for the hikers present to have waited until day break before walking out to Massie Gap. That trail has some steep sections where someone could have fallen and become injured in the dark.



"Monster" was a figure of speech often used for an extremely large item or animal.

The night hike out was an amazing part of this adventurous night. We went down the Wilson Ridge trail, short cutting the AT & it was a blast. I probably have much more night hiking experience than most from soboing the PCT, I night hiked the last few months every night & I quite like it's intensity.

Thanks!!

[SWODaddy]

Was just watching a thru-hiker video (channel is "Evan's Backpacking Videos") on YouTube and he said this bear ripped through two Ursacks (and got 4 other hangs) when he was at Thomas Knob.

[dankwizard22]

Latest update on ATC site:

Problem Bear Activity - Mt. Rogers Area / Thomas Knob Shelter
(Revised 5/24/2018) Problem bear activity has been occurring with increasing frequency at Thomas Knob Shelter in the Mount Rogers National Recreation Area in southwest Virginia, mile 498.5 from Springer Mountain, Georgia. On multiple occasions at the shelter and campsites within several miles of the shelter, a bear has retrieved food bags hung in trees. Hikers are discouraged from camping anywhere between Elk Garden/VA-600 and Wise Shelter unless they can use one of the following food storage facilities provided:

Thomas Knob Shelter: a food storage area is protected by a temporary electric fence, with instructions posted.
0.25 mile north of Thomas Knob Shelter: a bear resistant food storage locker is installed within sight of the A.T.
Rhododendron Gap: a food storage area is protected by a temporary electric fence, with instructions posted.

[TNhiker]

a food storage area is protected by a temporary electric fence, with instructions posted.




and i wonder how long it will be before some morons tear this down....

[BuckeyeBill]

and i wonder how long it will be before some morons tear this down....

Or electrocute themselves.

[fiddlehead]

Seems to me a few hikers need to spray some bear spray in this bear's face.

[rocketsocks]

Seems to me a few hikers need to spray some bear spray in this bear's face.
That’s my opinion as well, putting the fear of humans in them will save the species.

[1234]

this was posted on FB today via the ATC.
"Due to an increase in bear activity near Thomas Knob Shelter — including multiple instances of campers' food being taken by a bear — two new boxes have been installed for overnight storage of hiker food. While the shelter remains open for now, hikers are highly advised to camp elsewhere if possible and to make extra effort to hang their food properly in Southwest Virginia. The entire Appalachian Trail is home to black bears, and one hiker's improperly stored food can lead to negative wildlife encounters for the hikers who follow. For more information, visit "

Thank You, Thank You ATC for putting the bear boxes at the shelter. This is a great timely solution. Poles, cables or boxes are safe ways to keep animals from getting our food. If available hikers will use them. I was just at pass mt. hut and all hikers put there food in the metal box even in the steady rain. There was no trash n the box. I saw 14 bears in the park but none at the huts!

[cneill13]

I live in Georgia and have done much hiking in the Nantahala's where Standing Indian Mountain is located.

The North Carolina bears are much bolder than the Georgia bears. Why?

Because in Georgia, there is a limited hunting season for the black bear. This not only culls the bears that have become accustomed to humans, but it also instills a fear of humans in the others.

In Carolina, it is a bear sanctuary, and the fear of humans is being lost.

I do not hunt. For the simple reason that I believe in eating what you kill. And I prefer cow. But I have no problem with others solving the problem.

[martinb]

Only GSMNP is a "bear sanctuary". They are hunted in surrounding areas, every Oct.

[cneill13]

Only GSMNP is a "bear sanctuary". They are hunted in surrounding areas, every Oct.

You are dead wrong. Standing Indian is most definitely a bear sanctuary.

42774

I forgot to add, culling problem bears not only makes humans safer but it also protects the bears.

[martinb]

Oh, forgot, you're right about that one.

[Seatbelt]

What does 'bear sanctuary" mean? No hunting? I have run into bear hunters on Standing Indian Mtn as well as many other areas not far from there.

[TNhiker]

What does 'bear sanctuary" mean? No hunting? I have run into bear hunters on Standing Indian Mtn as well as many other areas not far from there.




from this document (which i have not fully read just yet)


http://www.ncwildlife.org/Portals/0/Learning/documents/Species/Bear/Black%20Bear%20Management%20Plan_2012-2022.pdf



One of the most important developments in the recovery of North Carolina’s black bearpopulations began in 1971 with the creation of a bear sanctuary system. Twenty-eight bearsanctuaries were established to close approximately 800,000 acres of habitat to bear hunting.The idea behind the sanctuary system was to protect core areas of habitat that encompassed therelatively small home ranges of breeding females. The females would reproduce in thesanctuaries, and bear populations would increase and expand into surrounding areas. The bearsanctuary system, which North Carolina was the first North American jurisdiction to implement,has been one of the most successful and important innovations in the history of bear managementin North America and has been a primary factor in the recovery of bear populations in this state.

[Seatbelt]

Thanks for the info! When checking my journals, I will say that the bear hunters I referred to in my earlier post were mostly prior to this 2012 date.

[JC13]

Or electrocute themselves.Don't wizz on the electric fence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bme0JpXQUg

[martinb]

http://www.ncwildlife.org/Portals/0/Learning/documents/Species/Bear/Black%20Bear%20Management%20Plan_2012-2022.pdf






Thanks for that link. I was unaware there were that many in the state.

[JPritch]

Seems to me a few hikers need to spray some bear spray in this bear's face.
If I make it up there for Father's Day, I'm bringing my spray fo 'sho. I'm afraid some poor hiker is gonna attempt to defend their bag and get met by an angry bear. I hope not though.

[Musky]

Was 1 1/2+- mile north of Thomas Shelter on 5/24. Several people like 5 or 6 had there bear bags hung correctly and the bear climb the tree an broke the limb that was 4-5 inch thick on one of hangs. The bear did chew on my ursack. It survived but the stuff inside was crushed up. I would not stay any were close to Thomas Shelter. If you stay at the shelter use the bear box. "Now they have a nuisance bear" What do they do???

[MuddyWaters]

Now they have a nuisance bear" What do they do???

The right thing to do is close the area to camping.
For at least two months.
If it happens again within a year make the whole area a bear canister area

That's the right approach.

I have 100% confidence the authorities will take the wrong approach. Succumbing to public desire to be able to camp in a Scenic spot........ Devoid of that nasty wildlife. Make no mistake their actions will be solely politically motivated to appease voters that want to camp. As if tame ponies aren't enough. The ponies are not wild, they're not even feral, the proper term would be free-ranged.

If I had to guess.... They will catch the bear... Relocate it to someplace far away , too far for it to come back to they think. However when gsmnp has relocated bears, some have managed to come back to their old trouble areas, after being relocated hundreds of miles away. Hundreds of miles. I recall reading about 1, that the moment they released it, it immediately began walking back towards gsmnp.... Something like something 200 miles away. It made it back there too.

[Burrhead]

One could argue that the right thing to do is for everyone to use canisters anywhere cables, poles or boxes are not available. Put the good of the wildlife and the hiking community before the individual desire to carry less weight.

[TNhiker]

However when gsmnp has relocated bears, some have managed to come back to their old trouble areas, after being relocated hundreds of miles away.



reminds me (and i cant find a link to it anymore) of i believe as bear #95 from GSMNP...

it became a problem bear in cades cove-----they took it about halfway into the park...

it came back to the cove...

so they moved it to the far east part of the park...

it came back to the cove...

they took it into cherokee national forest...

it again came back...

so they took it another time to cherokee forest up near the tri cities area......

it was killed on a highway, and they were presuming that it was trying to return to the park...

[KnightErrant]

Currently thru-hiking but taking a couple of days off while passing by home in southwest VA. I avoided Thomas Knob for sleeping by camping on Whitetop Mountain on Saturday and just past Wise shelter on Sunday. Hung my food with PCT method both nights and no evidence of a bear. But on Sunday I stopped at Thomas Knob for lunch and to wait out a downpour, and there was a ridgerunner there. He had a picture of the bear and interviewed a couple who'd had their food stolen from a tree Rhododendron Gap. They said all but one of the 6-8 bags in that area were taken. Ridgerunner said the bear had eaten upward of 60 bags in 3 weeks and there was no money in the budget for relocation, so if the electric fence + berries coming in don't convince the bear to give up his food-bag-thieving habit, they'll have to put him down. Sad for this particular clever bear, but as the guy said, "we're not hurting for bears around here".

Then the next day, I met a woman who'd had her food stolen from her canister! She showed us the teeth and claw marks all over it. She said she was in her hammock and could hear some noise but was too nervous to try to confront the bear, but after just a few minutes of scraping, the bear got the top off and ate and/or punctured everything.

[SWODaddy]

Currently thru-hiking but taking a couple of days off while passing by home in southwest VA. I avoided Thomas Knob for sleeping by camping on Whitetop Mountain on Saturday and just past Wise shelter on Sunday. Hung my food with PCT method both nights and no evidence of a bear. But on Sunday I stopped at Thomas Knob for lunch and to wait out a downpour, and there was a ridgerunner there. He had a picture of the bear and interviewed a couple who'd had their food stolen from a tree Rhododendron Gap. They said all but one of the 6-8 bags in that area were taken. Ridgerunner said the bear had eaten upward of 60 bags in 3 weeks and there was no money in the budget for relocation, so if the electric fence + berries coming in don't convince the bear to give up his food-bag-thieving habit, they'll have to put him down. Sad for this particular clever bear, but as the guy said, "we're not hurting for bears around here".

Then the next day, I met a woman who'd had her food stolen from her canister! She showed us the teeth and claw marks all over it. She said she was in her hammock and could hear some noise but was too nervous to try to confront the bear, but after just a few minutes of scraping, the bear got the top off and ate and/or punctured everything.

What kind of bear cannister?

[saltysack]

Zpacks must be using picnic basket scented cuben[emoji23]....@ $50 a pop they’re loving it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[martinb]

[QUOTE=KnightErrant;2210112
Then the next day, I met a woman who'd had her food stolen from her canister! She showed us the teeth and claw marks all over it. She said she was in her hammock and could hear some noise but was too nervous to try to confront the bear, but after just a few minutes of scraping, the bear got the top off and ate and/or punctured everything.[/QUOTE]

hmmm, would also like to know what can.

[Berserker]

Currently thru-hiking but taking a couple of days off while passing by home in southwest VA. I avoided Thomas Knob for sleeping by camping on Whitetop Mountain on Saturday and just past Wise shelter on Sunday. Hung my food with PCT method both nights and no evidence of a bear. But on Sunday I stopped at Thomas Knob for lunch and to wait out a downpour, and there was a ridgerunner there. He had a picture of the bear and interviewed a couple who'd had their food stolen from a tree Rhododendron Gap. They said all but one of the 6-8 bags in that area were taken. Ridgerunner said the bear had eaten upward of 60 bags in 3 weeks and there was no money in the budget for relocation, so if the electric fence + berries coming in don't convince the bear to give up his food-bag-thieving habit, they'll have to put him down. Sad for this particular clever bear, but as the guy said, "we're not hurting for bears around here".

Then the next day, I met a woman who'd had her food stolen from her canister! She showed us the teeth and claw marks all over it. She said she was in her hammock and could hear some noise but was too nervous to try to confront the bear, but after just a few minutes of scraping, the bear got the top off and ate and/or punctured everything.
Holy smokes, this guy is chowing down and figured out how to get a canister open. Yeah, as much as I hate to say it I think he's gonna end up being put down. Relocating him is just gonna move the problem somewhere else unless the relocation is to a zoo or some similar facility.

As others have asked I wonder what can was breached? I'm thinking a Bear Vault from the vague description.

[KnightErrant]

Afraid I didn't get the specific brand. I'm not particularly familiar with canisters, but it was the kind with a large twist-off lid, not the kind that screws down with a coin/key/etc. From a quick google image search of "Bear Vault," I think that could have been it.

Also read in the shelter log that he got into an Ursack. This guy is smarter than your average bear all right!

[chknfngrs]

Hey boo boo. Let’s go get us a pick nick baskets

[SWODaddy]

Afraid I didn't get the specific brand. I'm not particularly familiar with canisters, but it was the kind with a large twist-off lid, not the kind that screws down with a coin/key/etc. From a quick google image search of "Bear Vault," I think that could have been it.

Also read in the shelter log that he got into an Ursack. This guy is smarter than your average bear all right!

One of the youtubers has video of what appears to be a torn up Ursack Major. Pretty incredible.

[SWODaddy]

Afraid I didn't get the specific brand. I'm not particularly familiar with canisters, but it was the kind with a large twist-off lid, not the kind that screws down with a coin/key/etc. From a quick google image search of "Bear Vault," I think that could have been it.

Also read in the shelter log that he got into an Ursack. This guy is smarter than your average bear all right!

One of the youtubers has video of what appears to be a torn up Ursack Major. Pretty incredible.

[cneill13]

This is the video which shows the destroyed Ursack. It is near the 5:30 minute mark.

It looks like it failed on the seam line which I think has since been upgraded by Ursack. But I am not sure about this.

Either way, it is not a particularly good advertisement for the company.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwrNParBSh8

BTW, if you are looking for a good AT hiking video, Evan is pretty entertaining. I have been follower of him on YouTube for a long time.

[Crushed Grapes]

This is the video which shows the destroyed Ursack. It is near the 5:30 minute mark.

It looks like it failed on the seam line which I think has since been upgraded by Ursack. But I am not sure about this.
I have a year-ish old Ursack and the one in the video that got destroyed looks different from mine, so it could be the older version. Cool of Tom from Ursack to chime in on the comments of that vid, though.

[Musky]

I was up at Thomas Knob about 1 1/2 mile north a few weeks back. The bear got a hold of my ursack, but did not get in to it. Just crushed things inside and put teeth holes in the bag. Should have had the metal liner. All I can say is the Ursack worked. The bear did not get in to it. Get the metal liner......

[Five Tango]

I was up at Thomas Knob about 1 1/2 mile north a few weeks back. The bear got a hold of my ursack, but did not get in to it. Just crushed things inside and put teeth holes in the bag. Should have had the metal liner. All I can say is the Ursack worked. The bear did not get in to it. Get the metal liner......

I got the metal liner(10-11 oz) for my Ursack Major XL.It fit perfectly.I did add a small piece of gorilla tape to pull the seams together on the liner and put it in the sack,topped it with my sit pad and sat down on it like a stool.I weigh 148 pounds and it help me just fine.YMMV.

From what I have read on line the bags made after April 1,2014 will have a certification tag sewn inside.If not,the bag might be compromised along the seam.I do not know,but do suspect,that the bags ripped wide open at Thomas Knob shelter might have been the older models.I got the liner because I dont want bear cooties on my food.I also made a bottom for the liner out of roof flashing that is free floating but would protect the food on the bottom of the bag from puncture I hope.

[wornoutboots]

After have my "prefect hang" taken by this bear, (broke whole branch clean off) I would say it is common sense to have implemented a mandatory bear canister or no camping in this area just like Blood or the Sierras on the PCT a month+ ago. Not sure why so called "authorities" are dragging their feet and allowing this bear to interact with humans Every night?!?? smh.............

[chknfngrs]

Money. It’s all about money.

[carouselambra]

After have my "prefect hang" taken by this bear, (broke whole branch clean off) I would say it is common sense to have implemented a mandatory bear canister or no camping in this area just like Blood or the Sierras on the PCT a month+ ago. Not sure why so called "authorities" are dragging their feet and allowing this bear to interact with humans Every night?!?? smh.............

This is a very difficult and no-win situation for whatever group has authority for this area. Removing this particular bear(s) will be both unpopular and a short-term solution, but the issues with unprepared and and inconsiderate/indifferent campers in this area need to be addressed. I have camped in this area eight or ten times over the past 10-15 years and a couple of years ago I took my wife up there for a day hike from Massie Gap. It was a Saturday on a night where there was a new moon and I was blown away by the traffic I saw heading up the hill. I saw people hauling coolers on wheels, carrying gymnastics mats from PE class to sleep on, straight from the store bags of groceries brimming with chips and cans of food, large fold out chairs, Coleman two-burner propane stoves, etc.. Pretty much a bunch of people were going to be car camping two or three miles from their car. I talked to several of the people who where backpacking and they did not have bear bags or know how to hang one. Probably over 200 people were spending the night in the Pinnacle/Rhododendron Gap/Thomas Knob area. It is going to be very difficult to monitor and control the camping in the area. One short-term solution would be to ban camping between Mt. Rogers and the Pinnacle. That being said, the largest bear I have seen on the AT was just south of the State Park border, outside of that stretch of trail.

[JPritch]

Due to its popularity, a permit system might be in order instead of an outright ban.

[pjclay]

I was up at the Thomas Knob shelter on Saturday, 6/2/2018, and they have installed two bear-proof food lockers in the vicinity, and one of them is enclosed with and electric fence for added protection. Just need to ensure people use them properly.

[Jesshiggins]

Listed on the ATC website "Problem Bear Activity - Mt. Rogers/Thomas Knob Shelter (05/10/2018) Problem bear activity has been reported at Thomas Knob Shelter in the Mount Rogers National Recreation Area in southwest Virginia, mile 498.5 from Springer Mountain, Georgia."

In reddit found this "I did an overnight up there last night. Was camping north of the shelter near the water source at the crest trail. A guy from the ATC was going around the sites warning people about the problem bear so I made sure I had an extra good hang.

About 1 in the morning I woke up to bear horns and people yelling "no bear, get on bear" a few campsites away. That seemed to scare it off but I did hear the horn again about an hour later. Needless to say I didn't sleep very much.

OMG, I'm quite new in hiking and such kind of stories make me give everything up. Hope everyone is alive. You guys are truly brave!

[Deacon]

OMG, I'm quite new in hiking and such kind of stories make me give everything up. Hope everyone is alive. You guys are truly brave!

Don’t let all this talk scare you away. This is all about a couple of rare and isolated incidences.

Yes it does happen, but realize the bears have no interest in you, just your food - just like every other animal.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[stephanD]

I think Jesshiggins is being sarcastic...

[wolfywolfy]

Update: I stayed at Thomas Knob on 6/1/2018 and everyone there used the box with the electric fence around it and no one had any problems (even those in tents). The campers at Rhod Gap however had their food taken and the electric fence there is NOT working. I went back up there on 6/5/2018 for the day and found where the bear has been clawing at some stumps, marking tree's and so on. No one reported the bear creating any problems other than stealing food bags in trees. They need more boxes at Rhod gap and the wise shelter and then if everyone would use them I think the bear would move on. But considering the bear has an AYCE every night he has no reason to leave. I also heard thru trail rumor that someone had found his den and it had Hiker trash all around it, what a sight that must be. On a good note I saw not one piece of trash anywhere except in fire pits, that was a first. No one is taking it serious from what I can tell and I have a feeling it is already a very fat well fed bear and very much at home now. He can get his fill of berries there in the upcoming week and never leave. I am seriously considering buying a bear canister myself now.

[martinb]

. No one is taking it serious from what I can tell and I have a feeling it is already a very fat well fed bear and very much at home now. He can get his fill of berries there in the upcoming week and never leave.

the bear is doing its thing, there's a people problem.

[Uncle Joe]

the bear is doing its thing, there's a people problem.

But it's a bear problem now too. People are undoubtedly the cause but the bear is now a problem and will probably be put down. Putting it off isn't helping.

[DownYonder]

But it's a bear problem now too. People are undoubtedly the cause but the bear is now a problem and will probably be put down. Putting it off isn't helping.

I agree that this should have already been dealt with. So many encounters could easily lead to someone being mauled. I live 6 miles from Elk Garden. My daughter and I are heading out for 2 nights next Friday. My plan was to take the AT down to Laurel Valley Rd/603. Might re-think those plans.

[Uncle Joe]

I agree that this should have already been dealt with. So many encounters could easily lead to someone being mauled. I live 6 miles from Elk Garden. My daughter and I are heading out for 2 nights next Friday. My plan was to take the AT down to Laurel Valley Rd/603. Might re-think those plans.

I have a friend going on a group hike and they plan to camp at a site away from, though I don't think too far from, this shelter. The problem is at this point you can do everything right and still have an incident.

[wolfywolfy]

My take away from talking with a ranger in the area was
1. The bears in the area are very small (He had no comment that I heard the problem bear was 350lbs)
2. Bears are shy and will run away
3. You are wasting your time, irrational, if you are afraid of them

I saw a father and his two young boys under age 12 camping in the area and also some youth groups up there last weekend. I am not saying one way or another if it is safe I am just relaying the information I have.

[Uncle Joe]

My take away from talking with a ranger in the area was
1. The bears in the area are very small (He had no comment that I heard the problem bear was 350lbs)
2. Bears are shy and will run away
3. You are wasting your time, irrational, if you are afraid of them
I saw a father and his two young boys under age 12 camping in the area and also some youth groups up there last weekend. I am not saying one way or another if it is safe I am just relaying the information I have.

Well this bear is reportedly not small and certainly isn't running away.

[wolfywolfy]

I added some photo's under my profile

[JPritch]

the bear is doing its thing, there's a people problem.

Sounds like people are doing their thing too...

[pjclay]

Here's the latest update from the ATC website today:

Southwest Virginia
Bear Warning - Mt. Rogers Area / Thomas Knob Shelter
(Revised 6/1/2018) Problematic bear activity has been occurring with increasing frequency at Thomas Knob Shelter in the Mount Rogers National Recreation Area in southwest Virginia, mile 498.5 from Springer Mountain, Georgia. On multiple occasions at the shelter and campsites within several miles of the shelter, a bear has retrieved food bags hung in trees. Hikers are discouraged from camping anywhere between Elk Garden/VA-600 and Wise Shelter unless they can use one of the following food storage facilities provided:

• Thomas Knob Shelter: a food storage area is protected by a temporary electric fence, with instructions posted.
• Rhododendron Gap: a food storage area is protected by a temporary electric fence, with instructions posted.

[martinb]

But it's a bear problem now too. People are undoubtedly the cause but the bear is now a problem and will probably be put down. Putting it off isn't helping.

This is my point.

[wolfywolfy]

Found this in Reddit

"gsmom10[S] 2 points 2 hours ago

“Grayson Highlands State Park - All hiking trails are closed due to aggressive bear activity. Hikers on the AT approaching park areas from Elk Garden side should exercise extreme caution”.

[Southeast]

Also on the VA DCR site.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180617/ac8fe1df43b2019e988b85b7557fc49c.png

[TNhiker]

i cant confirm it easily right now but apparently a woman got hurt by a bear today.............she was walking a dog and it provoked the bear and then the lady tried to get in the middle of it......sent her to the hospital....

[wolfywolfy]

Top stories
All trails closed at Grayson Highlands Park due to bear activity
WCYB · 9 hours ago
Grayson Highlands State Park trails closed until further notice 'due to bear activity'
WJHL-TV News Channel 11 · 10 hours ago

[Lone Wolf]

thomas knob shelter is not closed

[Uncle Joe]

They could have nipped this in the bud early.

[MuddyWaters]

They should have nipped this in the bud early.

Fixed it for ya

Should have been closed a long time ago. They resisted because of perceived bad pr due to it being a popular area.

[wolfywolfy]

found Comments below in the Herald online - sounds like this happened inside the state park borders maybe.

Roger Friend · University of Virginia
My wife and I were getting ready to start our hike just before 8 a.m. at the Massie's Gap trail head in Grayson Highlands SP when we heard a woman call for help. She and her dog had been attacked by a bear. She had puncture wounds on her arm and her dog was scratched on its hind quarters. Another hiker and I carried the dog while my wife helped the woman back to the trail head. By the time we got to the road the rangers had arrived. Luckily some one at the trail head had cell service and had called the rangers.

[Lone Wolf]

cabin creek trail

[u.w.]

They could have nipped this in the bud early.

Definitely agree. Wouldn't be much, if any, of a stretch to say 'they' were/are negligent.


Fixed it for ya
Should have been closed a long time ago. They resisted because of perceived bad pr due to it being a popular area.

Closing the park being one option. Removing the bear being another. Perceived bad PR? or money? maybe both?

u.w.

[MuddyWaters]

Definitely agree. Wouldn't be much, if any, of a stretch to say 'they' were/are negligent.
u.w.

No guarantee it's the same bear with what we know right now.

And most of the time when a dog is involved a bear is acting in self-defense. A dog will quickly bring out the worst in a bear.

If the bear had intended to be predatory the woman probably wouldn't be alive

Dogs are supposed to be on 6-foot leashes in Grayson. Be interesting to see the details. Hope the woman is okay. But I wouldn't convict the bear or the park management just yet in this incident. I still fault them for not closing things down immediately when it started to prevent that bear from becoming a problem.

[wolfywolfy]

cabin creek trail

? where is that? I only know of the one in Denton, NC

[SWODaddy]

No guarantee it's the same bear with what we know right now.

And most of the time when a dog is involved a bear is acting in self-defense. A dog will quickly bring out the worst in a bear.

If the bear had intended to be predatory the woman probably wouldn't be alive

Dogs are supposed to be on 6-foot leashes in Grayson. Be interesting to see the details. Hope the woman is okay. But I wouldn't convict the bear or the park management just yet in this incident. I still fault them for not closing things down immediately when it started to prevent that bear from becoming a problem.

I'm curious as well. Not sure how a dog on a short leash provokes a bear.

[Lone Wolf]

? where is that? I only know of the one in Denton, NC

it heads down hill from massie gap parking area

[SWODaddy]

cabin creek trail

Cabin Ridge?

[SWODaddy]

Cabin Ridge?

Nevermind, I see now...

[DownYonder]

Daughter and I just returned from 2 night on the AT section thru Grayson Highlands. After the trip, I drove by the ranger station and learned:
- The rangers do NOT want to discuss anything regarding the attack. I finally got one of the 3 rangers that I approached to acknowledge that a woman and her dog had an "incident" near the backpackers parking lot. When I asked what would be done about the bear, one ranger said "we have no idea which one it is". Barring no future "incidents", the AT will remain open.
- Most if not all trails within the park were closed for a portion of Saturday
- All trails except Cabin Creek are now open (3pm 6-17). There were at least 40 cars parked near Cox Visitor Center and numerous people walking around the meadow across from it.
- Reported bear activity Thursday 6-14 at/near the Wise Shelter.
- Backpackers were leaving to take the AT spur from the backpackers parking lot
- I also spoke with 2 different couples who were camped at the horse camp just down from where the AT crosses VA 603 just north of Old Orchard Shelter. They both saw 2 bears in the horse trailer parking area.
- Three different thru-hiking couples said they have seen 7, 9, 12 bears. A few had cubs. None were aggressive and acted as if they could care in the least if you were there.

The bottom line is this: there is a very large bear population along numerous sections of the AT, some have become very bold in their efforts to get your food sacks. It is rumored that the one at Thomas Knob has now taken 60+ sacks. The entire region around Grayson Highlands is heavily populated with black bear. I live 7 miles from the entrance to the park. My trail-cam took a pic last week of a sow with 2 cubs 1/4 mile from my house. My neighbor had juvenile visit his house last night.

Use your common sense, give them a healthy leeway and carry bear spray as a last resort.

[u.w.]

No guarantee it's the same bear with what we know right now.

And most of the time when a dog is involved a bear is acting in self-defense. A dog will quickly bring out the worst in a bear.

If the bear had intended to be predatory the woman probably wouldn't be alive

Dogs are supposed to be on 6-foot leashes in Grayson. Be interesting to see the details. Hope the woman is okay. But I wouldn't convict the bear or the park management just yet in this incident. I still fault them for not closing things down immediately when it started to prevent that bear from becoming a problem.

Agreed.
I remember when I went through Shenandoah Natl Park I got told by more than a few park employees and volunteers, more or less exactly what you said. That dogs can quickly bring out the worst in a bear. I'd never given it much thought until then, and you are one of many now that have mentioned it.
Definitely hope the woman is all right, and also be interested to hear more info/details.
u.w.

[wolfywolfy]

Daughter and I just returned from 2 night on the AT section thru Grayson Highlands. After the trip, I drove by the ranger station and learned:
- The rangers do NOT want to discuss anything regarding the attack. I finally got one of the 3 rangers that I approached to acknowledge that a woman and her dog had an "incident" near the backpackers parking lot. When I asked what would be done about the bear, one ranger said "we have no idea which one it is". Barring no future "incidents", the AT will remain open.
- Most if not all trails within the park were closed for a portion of Saturday
- All trails except Cabin Creek are now open (3pm 6-17). There were at least 40 cars parked near Cox Visitor Center and numerous people walking around the meadow across from it.
- Reported bear activity Thursday 6-14 at/near the Wise Shelter.
- Backpackers were leaving to take the AT spur from the backpackers parking lot
- I also spoke with 2 different couples who were camped at the horse camp just down from where the AT crosses VA 603 just north of Old Orchard Shelter. They both saw 2 bears in the horse trailer parking area.
- Three different thru-hiking couples said they have seen 7, 9, 12 bears. A few had cubs. None were aggressive and acted as if they could care in the least if you were there.

The bottom line is this: there is a very large bear population along numerous sections of the AT, some have become very bold in their efforts to get your food sacks. It is rumored that the one at Thomas Knob has now taken 60+ sacks. The entire region around Grayson Highlands is heavily populated with black bear. I live 7 miles from the entrance to the park. My trail-cam took a pic last week of a sow with 2 cubs 1/4 mile from my house. My neighbor had juvenile visit his house last night.

Use your common sense, give them a healthy leeway and carry bear spray as a last resort.

I actually kind of looked for the bear at Thomas knob, hiked all over and never saw it. I camped several times at Grayson last year and never once saw a bear. Recently hiked thru from fox creek to elk garden and never saw a bear. I saw signs of bear this year but not last year (except in the deep gap area). My uncle also stated he has never actually seen a bear when camping on the trail there in the past 5 years. I do not doubt they were always there but they do seem more active than usual this year in the area. 60+ saks, WOW! The Bear is not addicted to peanut butter and poptarts☺ (carbs)
Past the park boundary I rarely see a dog on a leash as people allow them to run loose up there.

[chknfngrs]

I’m takin notes yall

[stephanD]

When i bought a bear spray two years ago for my section hikes, people were laughing at me. Who is laughing now?

[tdoczi]

When i bought a bear spray two years ago for my section hikes, people were laughing at me. Who is laughing now?
this guy.

ok, i'm not literally laughing, but i dont carry bear spray on the AT and this doesnt change that.

[Five Tango]

Not laughing because I carry it.Works on all sorts of critters,some of which might be rabid.Here in Georgia in the last month there has been a coyote attack on a local hiker and a bobcat attack on a homeowner which did not end well for either animal.The painful treatment and EXPENSE for the survivors is staggering.

[BuckeyeBill]

In reference to those who carry bear spray, be sure to check the expiration dates. Carrying an out of date spray while somewhat effective is no match to a new canister. If it's expired, your can use it to see the spray pattern and its effective range. Just don't spray it into the wind. I also carry it as a last resort, after following all the other suggested means to deter the situation.

[wolfywolfy]

Why is it that the trail always seems to have the bear problems. Using Grayson Highlands as an example why are all the bear problems on the trail and shelters and never in the family campground at the state park

[DownYonder]

Why is it that the trail always seems to have the bear problems. Using Grayson Highlands as an example why are all the bear problems on the trail and shelters and never in the family campground at the state park

The "incident" with the bear, dog and woman was at the parking lot inside the park. Also, we spoke to two groups at the horse camp on VA603. One said they had 2 bears while the other group said they saw 3. They yelled at them and beat pots together. The bears just looked at them and went about wondering around the parking area. They did say that the bears did not harass their horses.

[SWODaddy]

Grayson Highlands reporting on their Facebook page that the dog was off-leash.....

[Southeast]

Why is it that the trail always seems to have the bear problems. Using Grayson Highlands as an example why are all the bear problems on the trail and shelters and never in the family campground at the state park

Those campers refer to that as a photo op.

[Venchka]

Grayson Highlands reporting on their Facebook page that the dog was off-leash.....
One more time. You can’t fix stupid.
How many here have visited the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem? How many of you were privileged to view a grizzly or black bear? My wife and I spent a week in Yellowstone in May. We were fortunate enough to glimpse a grizzly about a half mile away with the aid of 10x50 binoculars. We also saw 3 black bears at much closer range. I don’t recall seeing any dogs, leashed or off leash, in the Park.
I still have to wonder why bears are a problem on the East and West coasts but not in the middle of the country?
Wayne

[MuddyWaters]

Sounds like classic " dog riles up bear and runs back to owner with bear in pursuit"

[Seatbelt]

One more time. You can’t fix stupid.
How many here have visited the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem? How many of you were privileged to view a grizzly or black bear? My wife and I spent a week in Yellowstone in May. We were fortunate enough to glimpse a grizzly about a half mile away with the aid of 10x50 binoculars. We also saw 3 black bears at much closer range. I don’t recall seeing any dogs, leashed or off leash, in the Park.
I still have to wonder why bears are a problem on the East and West coasts but not in the middle of the country?
Wayne
By "middle of the country" do you mean the Midwest states? If so, I can think of a simple answer: lack of bear population.

[tdoczi]

By "middle of the country" do you mean the Midwest states? If so, I can think of a simple answer: lack of bear population.

i think he means, in essence, the rockies. especially the northern half.

my answer would be lack of human population.

my further answer would be there are incidents there as well, they just dont get as much national attention and there have been none recently that are fresh in our minds. but they do happen.

fact of the matter is if this incident happened in montana none of us would be discussing it.

[Seatbelt]

i think he means, in essence, the rockies. especially the northern half.

my answer would be lack of human population.

my further answer would be there are incidents there as well, they just dont get as much national attention and there have been none recently that are fresh in our minds. but they do happen.

fact of the matter is if this incident happened in montana none of us would be discussing it.
Ok that makes more sense. I guess by living in the Midwest, we usually think of our location as the "middle"
And I would agree with your assessment about the human population in the rockies.

[August W.]

I have a year-ish old Ursack and the one in the video that got destroyed looks different from mine, so it could be the older version. Cool of Tom from Ursack to chime in on the comments of that vid, though.

Wonder how many non-"Allmighty" IGBC approved ursacks have to fail under proper use before Tom issues a recall on those bags? Seems a recall and replacement program would do more for the brand's public image and for the bears and humans who are relying on ursack to perform.

[trailmercury]

By "middle of the country" do you mean the Midwest states? If so, I can think of a simple answer: lack of bear population.

Certain regions of Wisconsin, Michigan and Minnesota have pretty healthy black bear populations. Unfortunately using unleashed dogs to chase/tree bears is part of some legal hunting practices.

[Crushed Grapes]

Grayson Highlands reporting on their Facebook page that the dog was off-leash.....
I know all dog owners are not this irresponsible, but I'm not usually a fan of random dogs just running up to me while hiking. Never had an issue, but just wish their owners used more thought while out on the trail.

[TexasBob]

One more time. You can’t fix stupid.
How many here have visited the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem? How many of you were privileged to view a grizzly or black bear? My wife and I spent a week in Yellowstone in May. We were fortunate enough to glimpse a grizzly about a half mile away with the aid of 10x50 binoculars. We also saw 3 black bears at much closer range. I don’t recall seeing any dogs, leashed or off leash, in the Park.
I still have to wonder why bears are a problem on the East and West coasts but not in the middle of the country?
Wayne

We camped at Pebble Creek Campground in the Lamar Valley for 3 nights. The day we arrived there were 2 black bears in the meadow about 100 yards from our camp. Use of the bear boxes was mandatory, leaving food in your vehicle was a no-no and the rangers would come through daily and talk to us about bears. They ticketed people who left food on the picnic tables and several times chased bison out of the campground by shooting them in the butt with a slingshot to encourage them to move along. We all carried bear spray with us. The rangers take bears very seriously in the park which I imagine is why more campers don't get in trouble. I lost count of the number of bears we saw driving around the park.

[Burrhead]

Sounds like classic " dog riles up bear and runs back to owner with bear in pursuit"

Don't know but I would guess this is another case of "my dog doesn't need a leash, its under verbal control"! Until it goes after a bear and shuts down a park.

[Venchka]

We camped at Pebble Creek Campground in the Lamar Valley for 3 nights. The day we arrived there were 2 black bears in the meadow about 100 yards from our camp. Use of the bear boxes was mandatory, leaving food in your vehicle was a no-no and the rangers would come through daily and talk to us about bears. They ticketed people who left food on the picnic tables and several times chased bison out of the campground by shooting them in the butt with a slingshot to encourage them to move along. We all carried bear spray with us. The rangers take bears very seriously in the park which I imagine is why more campers don't get in trouble. I lost count of the number of bears we saw driving around the park.
I totally agree with you. The bears know where they are safe and where they shouldn’t be.
As for the sparse population in the Rockies...
Cramming 4+ million people into 3,500 sq miles from mid-May thru mid-September is pretty much full occupancy.
Wayne

[tdoczi]

As for the sparse population in the Rockies...
Cramming 4+ million people into 3,500 sq miles from mid-May thru mid-September is pretty much full occupancy.
Wayne
its all relative. the city i work in is 300 square miles or so and has more than twice as many people living in it.

[Venchka]

its all relative. the city i work in is 300 square miles or so and has more than twice as many people living in it.
Yuck. My condolences!
How many bears?
Wayne

[tdoczi]

Yuck. My condolences!
How many bears?
Wayne
the bears are about 40 miles away

[AngryGerman]

Seems to me a few hikers need to spray some bear spray in this bear's face.

I agree 100% Chase that burly beast and spray the bajezzes out of him. Black bears are about possession as much as humans are. If they know you possess it they wont try but if they do don't be timid and cowardly. Spray him, throw big ass rocks, trekking poles have points too. These bears need to be scared of humans. The more they score in the vicinity of humans and no reaction from said human occurs the bear says to bear self; wimps! I'm taking your food; HA!

Secondly, stop camping near there! Seriously! Definition of insanity anyone?! Arrange your pass through there during the day and stay a few miles out. Plenty places to hang in the lower elevations folks. At 500 ish miles north of Springer you all should be able to pull 25 in a day to get far from there and be able to get the scenery in all the while avoiding big burly bear.

Bear; :rolleyes: huh!

[SawnieRobertson]

There have been episodes in Rocky Mountain National Park with black bears. For instance with bear v tenter while tenter was sleeping. The population has increased over the past few decades. And then, of course, there are the mountain lions. I think it is always worthwhile to check into visitor centers as one arrives on new terrain to learn about the local wildlife. It is interesting, especially if there are reasons for concern.

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=AngryGerman;2212802]
Secondly, stop camping near there! Seriously! Definition of insanity anyone?! Arrange your pass through there during the day and stay a few miles out. Plenty places to hang in the lower elevations folks. At 500 ish miles north of Springer you all should be able to pull 25 in a day to get far from there and be able to get the scenery in all the while avoiding big burly bear.
[/QUOTE

Only one problem with that theory, the bears are everywhere in this neck-of-the-woods. The next shelter NOBO (Wise Shelter) started having visitors last Thursday night. Go 6 more miles to Old Orchard and there was bear activity 3-4 nights ago. Go another 1.5 miles to VA 603 and there are 3 bears hanging out around the horse camp. 5 miles further to Hurricane and it's the same story. IOW, you're not going to get away from them, so you better learn to live with them.

[Berserker]

Only one problem with that theory, the bears are everywhere in this neck-of-the-woods. The next shelter NOBO (Wise Shelter) started having visitors last Thursday night. Go 6 more miles to Old Orchard and there was bear activity 3-4 nights ago. Go another 1.5 miles to VA 603 and there are 3 bears hanging out around the horse camp. 5 miles further to Hurricane and it's the same story. IOW, you're not going to get away from them, so you better learn to live with them.
Issues at Wise and Old Orchard make sense since the AT basically almost wraps back on itself through this area, and those shelters aren't really that far apart as the crow flies. I'm a little surprised that the horse camp and Hurricane are also having problems though.

[DownYonder]

Issues at Wise and Old Orchard make sense since the AT basically almost wraps back on itself through this area, and those shelters aren't really that far apart as the crow flies. I'm a little surprised that the horse camp and Hurricane are also having problems though.

We stopped at the horse camp on Sunday 6-17. Two different couples said that there were bears in the parking area on Saturday night. Later that day on our way up to Iron Mountain, we met a group of SOBO. They had stayed at Hurricane and said there was a bear hanging around but I'm not certain if that was first or second hand info. Either way, they are plentiful in this area.

This was taken 7 miles from the entrance into Grayson.
42962

[hikernutcasey]

So what's the latest on this problem bear? Does anyone know if they ever removed it? I was thinking of taking my son up there Friday night. We usually camp about .2 before the shelter on the Grayson Highlands side and there is nowhere to hang a bag. Are the bear bins still at the shelter? I guess I could use those.

[Gambit McCrae]

So what's the latest on this problem bear? Does anyone know if they ever removed it? I was thinking of taking my son up there Friday night. We usually camp about .2 before the shelter on the Grayson Highlands side and there is nowhere to hang a bag. Are the bear bins still at the shelter? I guess I could use those.


I would assume that the problem has been solved, and that the bear boxes will remain there permanently

[foxinnc]

I'm heading up there on Thursday to do a section from Fox Creek back to Damascus. I guess I'll be carrying the bear canister.:mad:

[TNhiker]

So what's the latest on this problem bear?




someone, in theory, could call the park and ask them..........


worst comes the worst----if i have time, i can do it on wednesday........

[JPritch]

someone, in theory, could call the park and ask them..........
worst comes the worst----if i have time, i can do it on wednesday........

So, what's the good word??So, what's the good word??

[TNhiker]

So, what's the good word??So, what's the good word??



i didnt get a chance to call..........its close to 5 pm and im guessing their office is closed soon...

ill try tomorrow if i have time at work.......

[TNhiker]

So, what's the good word??So, what's the good word??



alright...

i called....

the lady i got said people are allowed to camp up there...

she did not know if the enclosures were still there or not....




i didnt get a chance to call..........its close to 5 pm and im guessing their office is closed soon...

ill try tomorrow if i have time at work.......