Is Z packs arc haul a durable pack?

[misterfloyd]

Hello to all,

I know that with the title this may set off a firestorm, I just have to ask. I'm just trying to gather information

I have mentioned that I am pretty kind to my gear, but on a trail durability is the last issue I want in a pack. I'm pretty realistic in to get the weight down to 24oz it does have to be treated differently than a 5 pound pack.

My questions are

the advertised weight that it can haul is 40lbs.....What is the real weight that it can handle? I know at times manufactures exaggerate this spec.

How durable is the fiberglass, (carbon?) frame in regards to arcing the pack.

I think the biggest places to get a tear is in the mesh areas of the back and the large mesh in the front. Is it possible to get this pack with a heavier fabric?

I am going to trail days in Damascus this weekend to see it and talk to the reps. I hope to try it on, but I wanted to talk to you.... the people who have been using it for years.

As mentioned before my question is regarding how well it has stood up during normal use.

Any information is appreciated and very welcome!!!
Best regards,
Floyd

[Gambit McCrae]

Is it as durable as a ULA pack? No way. Is it durable enough or a thru hike when used with common sense and some TLC? For sure

[JC13]

The only question I can address is the heavier fabric, the only option is the Dyneema X that it is constructed with. Zpacks doesn't do any custom work anymore.

[capehiker]

Zpacks owner here. The biggest mistake Zpacks did was inflate the load bearing claims of their packs (both the Blast and Haul). Subtract 10lbs from their max load and that would be more accurate. Sure, you could carry 40lbs for a short distance but you’re gonna get sag and you get sag with even lower weights.

Zpacks is a company based in Ultralight gear. If one needs a pack that can handle 30+ pounds of gear, they need to look for a suspension system that’s designed for that much.

[cmoulder]

I've never carried more than about 25lb TPW with mine, and that was for a 4-night winter trip, and includes the weight of snowshoes. I guess it would be okay up to 30lb, but it is not designed to carry mondo trad loads.

Every now and then someone logs in to complain that their Arc Blast feels just awful with 35lbs. Well duh.

[Just Bill]

Zpacks owner here. The biggest mistake Zpacks did was inflate the load bearing claims of their packs (both the Blast and Haul). Subtract 10lbs from their max load and that would be more accurate. Sure, you could carry 40lbs for a short distance but you’re gonna get sag and you get sag with even lower weights.

Zpacks is a company based in Ultralight gear. If one needs a pack that can handle 30+ pounds of gear, they need to look for a suspension system that’s designed for that much.
I'd imagine the mistake is that Joe rates the packs, lol.
A fit, accomplished, prolific thru-hiker with a very minimalist mindset probably does consider those decent ratings.
But for mere mortals and average Joe's... probably not realistically rated.

The sleeping bags tend to fall in that category as well.

Luckily for Joe his customers have figured out how to adjust.

[DuneElliot]

I'd agree that it is comfortable up to 30lbs

I have a 2" arc in my frame and leave it arced all the time. It has lasted two years so far.

I have dragged mine through some grabby pine brush and it didn't tear the mesh top pockets which I thought it would. It's pretty touch mesh. I think I have one TINY hole at the bottom of the front mesh pocket but don't think it was from rubbing as I never lay it down on the pocket. The dyneema holds up great and I have zero wear marks on the bottom, but then I do tend to really baby my gear and always set it down in the softest spot I can find.

[misterfloyd]

Thank you all for weighing in.

I'm beginning to hike again.... and I'm looking for a lighter pack that can handle 35lbs. My current pack is a Atmos 65 (pre AG)

I will resume hiking on the AT soon, but a great deal of hiking is in the Pisgah, Natahala, and the Linville Gorge, which will chew up the best packs, hence the reason I ask.

I'm a very realistic person regarding packs, and the "treatment" of such.

I really wanted to see if that 40lbs is for real, as I know most companies over inflate their estimates. There are just times when leaving a town after a resupply that the pack gets heavier. My summer weight is pretty low, but I have in the past over packed consumables.

As I stand, right now, my mileage is not what it used to be which means packing more, as it takes more time to get to point A to B.

I appreciate you all weighing in, and if their are others who may want to, your information is greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
Best,
Floyd

[Runner2017]

Osprey Exos is another good choice if you occasionally need to carry up to 40lb.

[Burrhead]

Just my opinion but if I was usually around 35 pounds I would keep using the Osprey and put the money you would spend on the ZPack towards lightening up everything else first.

[cmoulder]

Just my opinion but if I was usually around 35 pounds I would keep using the Osprey and put the money you would spend on the ZPack towards lightening up everything else first.
+1 indeedy!

If the rest of your load is heavy it isn't going to help to get a pack designed for UL... it'll just make things much worse, in fact.

When I first got into UL several years ago I was carrying an REI Flash 62. As I gradually acquired truly UL gear (Duplex was first!) and learned about UL techniques, it got to the point that the pack was barely half full when I went out for a trip, at which time I knew I was ready for a by-gawd UL pack.

Also, I've hiked Pisgah and Nantahala and I don't recall any particular reason those areas should "chew up the best packs." I wouldn't hesitate to use an Arc Blast there, and that material (cuben/poly hybrid) is admittedly more delicate than Dyneema X. The only reason I got the Arc Haul is for a bit more volume in winter and a bit more durability when shimmying thru spruce tunnels and up the occasional rock/ice chute. Winter snow frequently elevates the trails 4-5 feet or more, so this can be a problem.

[robby]

no. the webbing that the arced rods attach to breaks thru fairly easily

[clusterone]

I have an Arc Haul and have no complaints. Typically, the pack has a good 30-35+lbs on day one (drinks, steak, brauts, and cheese all add up). But have had it to 45lbs with no real difference in comfort(on trips I take my kids with). For those of you that just want bag meals, or granola, enjoy (don’t need your he’s no UL comments…). I save bag meals for days 3+ and enjoy great food the first couple days. Normal pack weight without all the goodies is usually around 17lbs. OK, back to the topic on hand…

Is it as durable as a ULA- I’d say so as the entire body is X-Grid, unlike the ULAs. To me more importantly is the comfort and my sweat free back, thanks to the ARC’s mesh back. Sure, you could rip the mesh back if not careful when the pack is off, but while on it is completely protected.

As for the sagging mentioned – YES, it does sag(seems it does depend on how you pack your gear), but no worse than most packs I have used. However, I added the two over the top straps and they greatly reduce the sag as they lift the front of the pack up, connecting to the top support bar of the frame.

Don’t get me wrong, not the most comfortable at 35+ pounds, but the pack is more than capable of handling the weight. Also, don’t get me wrong, the ULA packs are also top notch. The main selling point was the mesh back on the ARC Haul for me. Just so much more comfortable than any other pack I have worn. Oh and the lightest!

[misterfloyd]

I agree with what you are saying.
Concentrated on the big three.
one pound quilt
24 oz SMD trekking tent
I do not use any electronics, and my alcky stove and pot comes in at one ounce heavier than titanium.

Everything else is light. Thought I would start with the big three first. Got to get better with consumables, and always hated resupplying very often. I think the heaviest my pack was 35 ish pounds, but that was with 7 days of food. Just wanted something that could deal with that weight well just in case.

I looked at the new exos and did not care much for it.......IMHO I think they went backward in "updating" the pack.
Sorry for the misinformation I meant the Gorge chewing up packs.

Thank you all!!!!
Floyd

[cmoulder]

no. the webbing that the arced rods attach to breaks thru fairly easily
That was a problem very early on. I have not read any reports of this in a couple of years. But maybe I just missed them.

[cmoulder]

Also, I should mention that I immediately experienced lumbar pain from the bottom cross bar, even with very light loads. Completely "cured" with the optional lumbar pad.

Some people report no problems and some do.

[soumodeler]

no. the webbing that the arced rods attach to breaks thru fairly easily

That was redesigned and corrected. No longer an issue from what I have heard.

[JPritch]

Does a rugged suspension system negate alot of your load? In other words, is 25# in my Arc Blast the equivalent feel/load of say 40# in a heavier beefier suspended pack? Or is 40# still 40#. I've only ever had UL packs so I don't know any better. Coming out of MTR with 9 days food at 43# in my Crown VC was not the most pleasant experience, but would it still have sucked with an Osprey?

[Just Bill]

Does a rugged suspension system negate alot of your load? In other words, is 25# in my Arc Blast the equivalent feel/load of say 40# in a heavier beefier suspended pack? Or is 40# still 40#. I've only ever had UL packs so I don't know any better. Coming out of MTR with 9 days food at 43# in my Crown VC was not the most pleasant experience, but would it still have sucked with an Osprey?
Ask Tipi Walter.

The simple answer is yes.

The slightly more complicated answer may still be yes, though at some point in the context of hours walked per day is where the difference will materialize.
8 hour day with a decent pack...and decent shape hiker... probably about even.
Start pushing back to back to back 12 hour days and the weight of the pack will catch up with most and result in general fatigue.

Though glossed over... The only real benefit to UL backpacking is that your natural gait and overall stamina remain relatively unchanged... bringing you closer and closer to moving like you have no pack on at all. That specific strategy is very helpful on established long distance trails with clear destinations, goals, and relatively fixed, generally short, resupply points.

When you go on a more open ended trip for a week or more... the philosophy still applies... but when you are carrying a week or more worth of food you can start crossing that line where how the pack rides on you cuts into your time on trail. Bit like a bad pair of shoes or crotch rot can ruin even a slackpack or dayhike. Whatever piece of the system 'fails' needs to be fixed.

80% rule applies...
You dealt with that odd way overloaded and very rare circumstance in favor of the right pack for 80% or more of your walking.
if 80% of your walking involved carrying heavy loads... you'd greatly enjoy an improved suspension system. You may even require it.

If you had loaded up and couldn't cover more than a few miles because your pack carried that badly... you'd call it a bust.
But since you got by... and it was once in a blue moon... still a winner.

Also worth considering during a bad climb out... is if the agony of the climb causes you to curse and spit at your gear or if the gear is really a problem, lol.
If it's better the next day... it was probably the climb.

[DuneElliot]

40# is 40# on your hips and and knees. The rating is just how well the pack carries it and transfers the weight to the support system.

[SWODaddy]

Just my opinion but if I was usually around 35 pounds I would keep using the Osprey and put the money you would spend on the ZPack towards lightening up everything else first.

Yep, this. IMO, the pack should be the last item someone cuts weight in.

[Trail Lady]

The points where the back frame poles meet the webbing, put inside pen caps to reduce poking and wearing holes in the webbing. Especially if arcing the pack.
Cheers

[DuneElliot]

The points where the back frame poles meet the webbing, put inside pen caps to reduce poking and wearing holes in the webbing. Especially if arcing the pack.
Cheers
This sounds like a decent idea but there is not nearly enough room in the webbing holes of my Arc Haul to do this.

[bigcranky]

Just my opinion but if I was usually around 35 pounds I would keep using the Osprey and put the money you would spend on the ZPack towards lightening up everything else first.

Yeah, +1 on this. I've had my Arc Haul for 4+ years now, it replaced my Circuit. The Arc Haul has held up well to moderate use. I don't carry more than 30 pounds in it -- even at 32#, I can feel the whole thing sag and it's not comfortable. 28# is better for me. I did add the "lumbar pad" which is really just an additional padded part for the hip belt, that helped with comfort and support on my lower back.

What's your base weight now? I carry a max of 5+ days of food, which is about 10 pounds, and 2 liters of water is 4, so with a 14-15 pound base weight I'm under 30 and happy. To get to 35 I'd need a 20+ pound base which is too much for any UL pack in my experience.

[Trail Lady]

Put the poles of the frame in pen caps to prevent poking through the webbing over time. Great product, crappy customer service when you have a product with a verified manufacturers defect.

[cmoulder]

Put the poles of the frame in pen caps to prevent poking through the webbing over time. Great product, crappy customer service when you have a product with a verified manufacturers defect.
Both your tent and your pack were defective?

I have an Arc Haul from the first batch they produced and it is still fine. No issues, but I did need the additional lumbar pad because without it I got back pain even with a very light load.

Those frame rods are very tight in mine... don't see how one would add some sort of cap over the end. But I've not had any wear or abrasion or breach, though maybe I've just been lucky.

[LazyLightning]

I would say it's a great pack for an ultra light backpacker. I just finished my nobo thru hike and when I bought my gear I was going as ultra light as I can... then I realized I'm not an ultra light backpacker at all. My arc haul was easily 50 pounds or more on a full resupply - I was afraid to weigh the darn thing after I weighed it once in GA. Considering that it lasted the entire hike with my overloading it, I would say it is a very durable pack but it wasn't to comfortable for a few days after a resupply. Still my style was to load up on a ton of food so I can stay on trail as long as possible and eat as much as I want. I never had just 1 knoor side for dinner or anything like that, like I saw so many doing.

I busted the bottom attachment for my right shoulder strap going through the Mahoosuc Notch and I rigged it up on the same connecter that bends the rod - that got me to Katahdin. I'm surprised it didn't break sooner honestly, my bag was definitely overloaded at the time and I was pushing time cause of rain moving in when it busted.

I wouldn't buy another z packs cause I like to eat a lot and not do any injustice to my body …. I also believe that if your eating well you can handle the weight and don't need a 15-20 pound pack... but to each their own. People say it's uncomfortable over 30-35 pounds but it felt like a feather to me when I'm sure it was barely under 40. Of course this is because it gradually got lighter from my full, way overloaded, resupply. For what it's worth I was 120 pounds in ME, never weighed myself before then, so I'm not some huge dude saying the weight was nothing or anything like that.

A great pack for a lightweight backpacker but consider something else if you think you might be near 35-40

[DuneElliot]

Put the poles of the frame in pen caps to prevent poking through the webbing over time. Great product, crappy customer service when you have a product with a verified manufacturers defect.
I completely disgree. ZPacks went above and beyond when I had 3 different issues within a few months (these were issues that didn't relate to the quality of the pack) and got everything fixed within a very very reasonable time frame (only once had to pay because the issue was my fault) and this was on a pack that was 2 years old.

Having read a few of your comments about ZPacks you seem to have it in for them.

[poolskaterx]

I completely disgree. ZPacks went above and beyond when I had 3 different issues within a few months (these were issues that didn't relate to the quality of the pack) and got everything fixed within a very very reasonable time frame (only once had to pay because the issue was my fault) and this was on a pack that was 2 years old. Having read a few of your comments about ZPacks you seem to have it in for them.
I too had VERY good customer service from Zpaks; when I stepped on my unloaded pack and broke a carbon stay, totally my fault, zpaks replaced "gratis" and quick!
I went from an Osprey Atmos "suspension style" pack (super comfy and bomber 45-50 lbs loaded ) to my arc zip after changing out ALL my gear to UL. My old Osprey pack was 1/2 empty so I knew it was time. I purchased my Arc Zip second hand with over 1000 miles on it. I have another 1000 miles on it by now after 2.5 years of use. Sure it has a couple of cuben tape pieces on it where I may have poked a pin hole in it with something sharp but it is still in fantastic condition. I have had my pack up to 30lbs and it feels ok, way better at just a few pounds less. Love the suspension and am a big fan of the brand.

[poolskaterx]

... I am sure the Haul is even more durable than my Zip. Good luck on the search for the perfect kit:)

[JC13]

I don't have a Haul but, it seems that this year among the YouTube vloggers that have had them, there has been a fair number of failures. The issue is, its hard to determine if it is an issue with the newer ones or there were/are less people with the older ones that are mentioning issues where I frequent. I have had a Haul on my list for a year or so but now I am seriously considering just getting a 58L Exos for winter use and being content with the lifetime warranty at a lower price point and the extra pound or so.

[Coffee]

Is it as durable as a ULA pack? No way. Is it durable enough or a thru hike when used with common sense and some TLC? For sure

I have a CDT and Circuit. The Circuit is nearly good as new nearly six years after purchase and at least 3000 trail miles with only replacement being a new hip belt which ULA generously sent to me under warranty and a tiny patch at the base of the pack using tenacious tape. ULAs are insanely durable. I ordered an Arc Blast earlier this year and didn't like it because my bear canister wouldn't pack the way it does in the Circuit and maybe I'm just set in my ways. So I returned it. My impression just from seeing it is that it isn't as durable as the ULA but I have zero trail miles to attest to its durability. With some care, I'm sure the zPacks would last a long thru hike but my expectation would be far less overall life than a ULA.

[Emerson Bigills]

I bought an Arc Haul for my thru. My total pack weight (w food and water) varied between 26 lbs. (Feb start) and 13 lbs. (summer weight before town). I had to knot the bottom of the shoulder straps to keep them from slipping, which is not optimal, but I worked around it. Z-Packs has given me great customer service, a free belt replacement from a shelter mice invasion, free trampoline back replacement after 2200 miles for worn straps and they replaced a belt stay when I snapped it coming out of the Sierra taking off the belt for airport bag check. I took it on the JMT this year and carried about 38 lbs. at the start. We both survived.

I think the Haul is a really good lightweight pack. It has served me well for that weight range. I think if I was in the mid-30's consistently, I might go with something a little heavier. I even question whether the Osprey Atmos is a good pack when you approach 40 lbs. It is a great light weight pack, but the frame structure doesn't seem built for heavier loads. I am of the opinion that once you get around 40 lbs. and higher, the weight of your pack is not so critical, but the ability of the pack to carry a heavier load comfortably really comes into play. Everyone throws up on Gregory packs, but they have some strengths.