View Full Version : Exploring going to ground on section hike this year...
Been a hammock sleeper for ten + years but find myself sleeping prone more as i get older. Just think i may sleep better if i were flat. Seeking general advise on the possible switch. Looking at the Lunar solo and a 2.5-3 inch 25 wide 3/4 pad. Thnks for any recommendations/experiences...-sloan
cneill13
05-23-2018, 09:41
All I can say is don't do it. Why would you want to go from a floating cot to the hard ground? Unless you have a cheapo hammock such as a too short ENO, I cannot believe sleeping on the ground would be more comfortable.
My daughter likes me to sleep in a tent with her when we go camping. I have top of the line Big Agnes 3.5" pad and I still wake up sore and stiff.
I would try it before you buy it. At least if you buy it from overpriced REI you could still return it within a year.
I would bet you will regret going to the ground especially when it is raining cats and dogs and your tent is slowly filling up with water.
Going to be hard to find a 25" wide 3/4 length pad without making one. Until recently, I don't recall anyone making a wide regular length.
I'm not aware of anyone that makes one. You could buy a large pad and try to trim and reseal it yourself I suppose but I don't see that working very well long term unless you've got some skills. I'd just get a large neo-air light and enjoy the full length pad.
I hang and also have a tent. Where I hike will determine what I carry. If you want to sleep comfortably on the ground, get an Exped pad. You have to hunt around to find them and I usually have to get them online. They are a European company iirc. I sleep better on the ground than I do in my hammock but this wouldn't be true without my Exped (I have spent a small fortune on pads in my lifetime and have tried all the other well known brands along the way). Hope this helps
nsherry61
05-23-2018, 22:00
. . . Until recently, I don't recall anyone making a wide regular length.
The REI Flash pad comes in a wide/regular.
The REI Flash pad comes in a wide/regular.Right, it is recent though as is the Big Agnes AXL in Reg/Wide.
Just Bill
05-24-2018, 10:34
Regular and wide is easier to find now, the last few years have seen a good half dozen or more (good) companies produce them.
The elusive unicorn is a 3/4 length and WIDE.
As far as I know that combo is only available by cutting one down.
Gambit McCrae
05-24-2018, 11:45
Going to be hard to find a 25" wide 3/4 length pad without making one. Until recently, I don't recall anyone making a wide regular length.
Incorrect, Exped makes their pads in in Medium wide, regular wide, and long wide
Incorrect, Exped makes their pads in in Medium wide, regular wide, and long wide
I don't see that they do. Looks like Exped has gone to using Medium as the Regular 72" length. So they have M and MW in 72" and the LW in 78". I do think its at least better now that you can get a wide pad in std length with various choices. I only saw one shorter pad listed, an XS at less than 48. I loved my 60" Big Agnes, but alas they don't make wide.
There is a short wide pad - the Klymit Inertia X Wave. I have it. Wouldn't use it on the ground by itself, too thin. I use reflectix underneath and that seems to work well on the ground. Works in a hammock, too, just decided it was too much trouble to carry the extra bulk (reflectix).
OP - just don't go getting a tent in order to find out there was a good reason why you were hanging in the first place. Go sleep on the ground, and if it works for you, might as well do that. If you find you're not sleeping well in a hammock, there IS something you're doing wrong, or some adjustment to be made that can make all the difference. You can discuss on HammockForums.net and I'm sure a solution can be found.
Tinstaafl
05-24-2018, 20:56
If you find you're not sleeping well in a hammock, there IS something you're doing wrong, or some adjustment to be made that can make all the difference.
I suppose getting completely schnockered before bedtime could be considered an adjustment.
Hanging from a couple of trees like some sort of mutated bat can be learned, but it ain't natural. It hinders you from the normal shifting of positions through the night that a "flattish" surface allows much more easily. There's a reason the vast majority of bedrooms in the world contain flat mattresses instead of hammocks.
While there are a lot of reasons to favor hammocks for hiking, they're far from the ultimately restful experience.
cmoulder
05-24-2018, 21:25
I suppose getting completely schnockered before bedtime could be considered an adjustment.
Hanging from a couple of trees like some sort of mutated bat can be learned, but it ain't natural. It hinders you from the normal shifting of positions through the night that a "flattish" surface allows much more easily. There's a reason the vast majority of bedrooms in the world contain flat mattresses instead of hammocks.
While there are a lot of reasons to favor hammocks for hiking, they're far from the ultimately restful experience.
Which hammocks have you used?
Tinstaafl
05-24-2018, 21:37
Which hammocks have you used?
Not a one since I was a kid.
Which hammock do you have strung up in your bedroom at home?
cmoulder
05-24-2018, 22:26
So you have no idea what you're babbling about.
So you have no idea what you're babbling about.
Exactly.
I don’t want to toss and turn like I do at home. In a hammock, I have deep sleep for longer periods on my back with no tossing whatsoever. I do find that I have to satisfy some body memory for short periods, then I end up on my back again. That body memory is from tossing so much at home. If hammocks weren’t a solitary device, I certainly would be sleeping in one at home.
Alas, I have too much $$ sunk in my mattress to consider replacing it with a $50 hammock. If I was younger, I sure as hell would.
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Tinstaafl
05-24-2018, 22:52
Not babbling at all, nor attempting any insult.
Do you have a reasonable counter-argument regarding what most people on the planet choose to sleep on? Do you have a hammock in your bedroom?
My post was not an attempt to stir the pot; simply a logical observation. I've relaxed in many hammocks over the years, though admittedly none of those were expressly designed for hiking. I find that about a half hour is my limit. At age 68, I'm still quite comfortable sleeping on a flat padded surface, and I doubt that's suddenly going to change.
Sure it was an attempt to stir the pot, but perhaps you don't even realize that. Do you take a mattress hiking? I mean a mattress, not a pad. I think its great that you're 68 and enjoy sleeping flat on the ground, more power to you. My foray into hammocks occurred when that started to not work for me. There can be other reasons to try hammocks, but I imagine that's reason #1 - either you experience better sleep yourself, or you hear about it from someone who has.
I don't need a reason to counter how people sleep at home. That's a pretty poor argument. In fact, there's a number of people choosing to have hammocks instead of mattresses at home. Their is a movement to outfit fire depts with hammocks for both space saving and better sleep - important when you might only have a few hours at a time. There is a fascination, or perhaps ease of understanding, that goes along with the four walls and pseudo mattress of a tent. But its clear that many tenters have no idea what they're actually doing. As a result, many try hammocks and remove underinsulation that they had in a tent, and then wonder why they're cold. Or they lament about having to buy extra stuff like a tarp. The elements of camping are no different than being in a tent, they're just things that sometimes don't look as much like our bedroom setup as tents mostly do. So don't knock it just because its different. If it works for many of us - which it certainly does - then its legit. Do what you want, HYOH, but clearly you're choosing to give very little benefit of the doubt to hammock users.
I'm thinking your Batman metaphor is somewhat of a compliment? Oh, and let's be clear, my hammock is indeed a flattish surface. The fact that you don't know that leads to us describing your writing as babbling.
Tinstaafl
05-25-2018, 00:07
I don't need a reason to counter how people sleep at home. That's a pretty poor argument.
Shirley you jest. Fact is, the vast majority of people prefer a flat stable platform. If that's not your choice, fine, but don't try to project that preference onto me or most of the rest of the planet.
It's a medical fact that "tossing and turning" through the night helps keep your body healthy. Certainly not to excess, but a modicum is definitely desirable.
Hammocking is one way to sleep, but it's not the ultimate Truth and Light by any means. My principle motive for chiming in was to counter just such proselytizing.
BuckeyeBill
05-25-2018, 03:23
Shirley you jest. Fact is, the vast majority of people prefer a flat stable platform. If that's not your choice, fine, but don't try to project that preference onto me or most of the rest of the planet.
It's a medical fact that "tossing and turning" through the night helps keep your body healthy. Certainly not to excess, but a modicum is definitely desirable.
Hammocking is one way to sleep, but it's not the ultimate Truth and Light by any means. My principle motive for chiming in was to counter just such proselytizing.
You are correct when you say that a lot of people prefer a flat sleeping platform. IMO many new hikers go with a tent/mattress/sleeping bag option because normally it is the cheaper way to go. Others have found advantages to a hammock such as not having to crawl into and out of their shelter, waking up and not having their knees in their chest when they sit up or setting their tarp in the porch mode and looking out at the sunset or sunrise. Hammock have come a long way since we were kids and now allow you to lay in a flat position. Yes I did spend more than a tent setup (of which I do still have one), but it is the quality of the product purchased that sold me on paying the prices I did.
As far as tossing and turning, I would be very interested in seeing the research on that. I can however "toss and turn" in my hammock very easily, just as I do in my bed at home.
I would never tell someone that hammocks are the be all end all only way to hike or camp. If they ask me, I will give them my opinion just as what I am saying here is just that "my opinion". Life would be very boring if we all thought the same.
saltysack
05-25-2018, 07:40
Not a one since I was a kid.
Which hammock do you have strung up in your bedroom at home?
I surely would if the wife would go for it!!! Don’t knock it it till you’ve tried it.... I’m a long time rotisserie ground sleeper who has tried lots of pads and nothing comes close to the sleep I’ve gotten in a hammock. I’m a newbie hammock guy but can say for ME there’s no comparison and wish I had tried it many years ago!
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cmoulder
05-25-2018, 07:43
My principle motive for chiming in was to counter just such proselytizing.
Based on ZERO experience.
According to your first post (https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/124858-Tuscarora-Trail?p=2150541&viewfull=1#post2150541), which was exactly 8 days ago, you're a hiking noob and blew out a knee on a 9.5 mile hike, presumably have never spent a single night in the woods, and yet you feel ready to wade into the deep end and render highly opinionated judgments based on... uhhh... ???
I have many years of backpacking and mountaineering experience, and there are many folks here who have FAR more than I, and I can say without fear of contradiction that until you have "walked the walk" you have absolutely no basis for arguing the merits of anything vs anything.
I myself did not start hammocking until last Fall, not because I thought it was inferior to tenting/tarping, but because I did a lot of hiking with my dog that slept in my tent with me. However, I have several friends who are hammockers and when my wife retired and wanted the dog to stay home with her when I was out backpacking, I decided to give hammocking a try. It has worked out great for me, and I discovered that many of my assumptions — some of them based upon the same "logic" you cite — were dead wrong. I am also a practitioner of the UL (ultralight) philosophy and thought that a hammock setup would necessarily weigh more than a ground setup, which again proved to be wrong; I now have a summer kit (hammock/tarp/quilts) that weighs less than 3 lbs.
Maybe try again when you have at least a tiny bit of understanding (beyond simple knowledge) based on actual experience?
Tinstaafl
05-25-2018, 08:37
Umm... that first post was a year ago, and I've been an avid camper for about 60 years, mostly primitive style.
Only the hiking aspect is new to me, and I've taken that up mainly as a means of getting farther away from the madding crowd in order to do my belly-button staring. I will happily sit at your feet while you tutor me on hiking, but I doubt you have much of anything new to show me about spending a night in the woods. :)
cmoulder
05-25-2018, 08:44
Straight to IGNORE list
Umm... that first post was a year ago, and I've been an avid camper for about 60 years, mostly primitive style.
Only the hiking aspect is new to me, and I've taken that up mainly as a means of getting farther away from the madding crowd in order to do my belly-button staring. I will happily sit at your feet while you tutor me on hiking, but I doubt you have much of anything new to show me about spending a night in the woods. :)
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Ughh, hate doing this from my phone....
Sounds like you have an agenda. If you don’t think hammocks are a good method of camping, say that and only that. Otherwise, you’re exposing your axx, which is what you’ve done here.
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I surely would if the wife would go for it!!! Don’t knock it it till you’ve tried it.... I’m a long time rotisserie ground sleeper who has tried lots of pads and nothing comes close to the sleep I’ve gotten in a hammock. I’m a newbie hammock guy but can say for ME there’s no comparison and wish I had tried it many years ago!
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as they say ymmv. I hang sometimes and sleep on the ground others. in neither case do I sleep as well as I do in my own bed in a heated or cooled room on a comfy mattress and down pillows. But if I was forced to pick one, I would choose tent and (good) sleeping pad over the hammock/quilt/tarp system. I think a person has to commit $, miles and time to figure out what works best for him/her.
Tinstaafl
05-25-2018, 21:16
Sounds like you have an agenda. If you don’t think hammocks are a good method of camping, say that and only that. Otherwise, you’re exposing your axx, which is what you’ve done here.
My only "agenda", if you want to call it that, is to bring some balance to discussions like this. I've already said that if hammocking works for you, fine, go for it.
Just pointing out that there are valid reasons to lie on the ground too.
Sorry, didn't know you need a high post count and/or high hiking mileage to make valid comments here.
You didn't approach this as offering balance at all. Step back and reread your posts.
Toolumpy
05-26-2018, 06:23
I went back to the ground and sleep mush better than I ever did in a hammock. I do use a full size pad though as I did find my toes on the floor when I would wake up. Do what works for you.
cmoulder
05-26-2018, 08:59
I went back to the ground and sleep mush better than I ever did in a hammock. I do use a full size pad though as I did find my toes on the floor when I would wake up. Do what works for you.
At least your decision is based on direct experience, which gives value to your data point.
For anyone just starting out in hammocking, it would be very wise to visit hammockforums and get Derek Hansen's book The Ultimate Hang (https://theultimatehang.com/2017/12/14/ultimate-hang-second-edition-now-available/) in order to learn how to do it the 'right' way. Also check out Shug Emery's videos. It isn't as simple as finding a cheap hammock on Amazon and stringing it up between a couple of trees. It requires a separate skill set and has its own learning curve.
For those still interested in learning.
devoidapop
05-26-2018, 17:33
Been a hammock sleeper for ten + years but find myself sleeping prone more as i get older. Just think i may sleep better if i were flat. Seeking general advise on the possible switch. Looking at the Lunar solo and a 2.5-3 inch 25 wide 3/4 pad. Thnks for any recommendations/experiences...-sloan
Have you thought about using your hammock tarp as a trekking pole shelter? You can always supplement with a bivy or bug net. That way you have dual purpose gear in case you still hang sometimes. Like others have said, your pad can definitely be dual purpose.