View Full Version : Trails within the AT qestion
I'm searching for a list of all the trails that are linked together to make up the AT. At least I assume that's the way it's put together. Does such a list of trails exist?
Thanks
The Snowman
05-23-2018, 19:19
Shared traiway is very common in the White MTs a list here can be found in the AMC white MT Guide other than that I guess you would have to just look in the ATC guide books. Have a good hike.
Last Call
05-23-2018, 21:36
It all starts with the Approach Trail at Amicalola....when will they extend the Southern terminus to Flagg Mountain, Alabama?
I'm searching for a list of all the trails that are linked together to make up the AT. At least I assume that's the way it's put together. Does such a list of trails exist?
Thanks
thats generally not the case at all. the one big exception, as another has pointed out, is in the white mountains. there may be other small areas with similar things going on.
otherwise it often seems like almost the opposite is true- tons of places where a seemingly fine trail runs parallel to and not far from the AT, seemingly at times simply for the sake of the AT being it's own distinct trail separate from the others.
its also probably more common to find trails that are not the AT now that used to be than it is to find parts of the AT that used to be (or still are) other trails.
evyck da fleet
05-23-2018, 21:59
The AT is the AT. Sometimes it shares the path with the BMT in the South, other trails in smaller parks and as mentioned in the Whites the local club likes to only list the local trail name.
Whites the local club likes to only list the local trail name.
they are the original trail names and if you ever go hiking in the whites and talk to people who arent there to hike the AT they are the names everyone who isnt an "AT person" uses.
the crawford path, most but not all of which is now part of the AT, for example existed since 1819. why would they change the name to middle segment of it to something else suddenly?
to anyone who isnt sectioning or thru hiking the AT (and thats 97% of the people hiking on it) theres just no need to call it anything else.
Last Call
05-24-2018, 01:30
Chunky Gal Trail in Georgia, and the BMT.......
somers515
05-24-2018, 06:55
I'm searching for a list of all the trails that are linked together to make up the AT. At least I assume that's the way it's put together. Does such a list of trails exist?
Thanks
I'm not familiar with a list already made - that would be a neat idea. Others have already mentioned the Whites in NH and you can also add the Long Trail in Vermont to your list.
Starchild
05-24-2018, 07:34
It all starts with the Approach Trail at Amicalola....when will they extend the Southern terminus to Flagg Mountain, Alabama?
The Approach trail is not the AT, it is the Approach Trail (though the first letters of the words are the same). From what I understand at one time it was part of the AT, but not anymore.
Starchild
05-24-2018, 07:42
The Long Trail co-runs with the AT, The AT overlay on top of the LT was done in respect to the nations 1st LD hiking trail. But in signage the AT and LT are treated equal, both use white blazes.
they are the original trail names and if you ever go hiking in the whites and talk to people who arent there to hike the AT they are the names everyone who isnt an "AT person" uses.
the crawford path, most but not all of which is now part of the AT, for example existed since 1819. why would they change the name to middle segment of it to something else suddenly?
to anyone who isnt sectioning or thru hiking the AT (and thats 97% of the people hiking on it) theres just no need to call it anything else.
The reason why it is not called the AT outside of the AT hiking community is because AMC makes it very hard by not including AT on many the signs and not putting white blazes. When AT is included it is usually shown in some diminished capacity. If it were properly marked it would be called that. I do suspect their reason is money based, as AT hikers in general don't pay to hike, and this is a area where AMC's customers pay very dearly and AMC wants to remove the thought of hiking for free and have a pay to play audience. The Whites is one of AMC's biggest cash cows.
The reason why it is not called the AT outside of the AT hiking community is because AMC makes it very hard by not including AT on many the signs and not putting white blazes. When AT is included it is usually shown in some diminished capacity. If it were properly marked it would be called that. I do suspect their reason is money based, as AT hikers in general don't pay to hike, and this is a area where AMC's customers pay very dearly and AMC wants to remove the thought of hiking for free and have a pay to play audience. The Whites is one of AMC's biggest cash cows.
why would anyone change the name of the middle section of a hiking trail that is over 100 hundred years old to something else?
the simple fact is people who are intentionally hiking on the AT in the whites make up at most 10% of all of the people who use those trails. and thats being generous.
too many of us think the AT is like the king of all hiking or something. it isn't. not even remotely. the whites is perhaps the place on the AT where this is most in evidence. thousands of avid hikers there simply do not care one little about the AT. you could remove the AT from the white mountains entirely and no one would notice and life would continue as normal with barely a blip.
its something we'd all do better to recognize and understand before we complain about the white mountains and the amc.
Starchild
05-24-2018, 09:05
why would anyone change the name of the middle section of a hiking trail that is over 100 hundred years old to something else?
the simple fact is people who are intentionally hiking on the AT in the whites make up at most 10% of all of the people who use those trails. and thats being generous.
too many of us think the AT is like the king of all hiking or something. it isn't. not even remotely. the whites is perhaps the place on the AT where this is most in evidence. thousands of avid hikers there simply do not care one little about the AT. you could remove the AT from the white mountains entirely and no one would notice and life would continue as normal with barely a blip.
its something we'd all do better to recognize and understand before we complain about the white mountains and the amc.
If this is the case the AT should be noted on signs, I'm not saying that the other name should be removed. I think the AMC is begrudgingly giving into this because of the community that the AT is, that they help each other and if the AT is not clear at a point many will take it upon themselves to make it clear for others. This has caused so called vandalism, and I call it so called vandalism because I believe they may be morally correct and AMC morally in the wrong by omitting this, the thru hikers are helping others not get lost who are following the AT, which though it is 10% as you say of the hikers, that is not a insignificant number.
Also much of what you say, that most don't even know the AT is there, is because AMC intentionally hides that to the degree it can, so how would they know. But when people find out they are usually fascinated by the AT journey, the thru hikers and it does expand their vision as to what hiking is way beyond the whites. The whites just become a blip on the map of something much bigger. Hiking itself becomes much bigger, and the world itself becomes the hiker's backyard, and hiking becomes more then just peak bagging, but a journey. The AT is very good for hikers for those who visit the Whites.
Odd Man Out
05-24-2018, 09:07
2.6 miles in MD are on the C&O Canal Towpath. Easiest 2.6 miles on the AT?
peakbagger
05-24-2018, 09:25
Baxter State Park also uses local trail names that predate the AT.
Contrary to popular belief, the AMC doesn't "hide" the AT, it just doesn't emphasize it like elsewhere where the AT was built specifically to be the AT. Much of the trail network in the whites that the AT follows are on trails far older than the AT, many date back to the 1800s or early 1900s. The vast majority of hikers in the whites are day hikers and its a lot easier for them to find a distinctly named trail in a guide and on a map than a trail description for a trail that runs from Glencliff to Shelburne. The other confusing point is that the AT is not the primary path in few areas of the whites so thru hikers used to following the most used path at an intersection and not watching signage occasionally end up on a blue blazed side trail despite walking past a sign with an AT logo at a junction. The AT also goes through the Great Gulf Wilderness that has very strict blazing and signage rules and there is one particular area where its really easy to inadvertently turn onto a blue blaze.
If this is the case the AT should be noted on signs, I'm not saying that the other name should be removed. I think the AMC is begrudgingly giving into this because of the community that the AT is, that they help each other and if the AT is not clear at a point many will take it upon themselves to make it clear for others. This has caused so called vandalism, and I call it so called vandalism because I believe they may be morally correct and AMC morally in the wrong by omitting this, the thru hikers are helping others not get lost who are following the AT, which though it is 10% as you say of the hikers, that is not a insignificant number.
Also much of what you say, that most don't even know the AT is there, is because AMC intentionally hides that to the degree it can, so how would they know. But when people find out they are usually fascinated by the AT journey, the thru hikers and it does expand their vision as to what hiking is way beyond the whites. The whites just become a blip on the map of something much bigger. Hiking itself becomes much bigger, and the world itself becomes the hiker's backyard, and hiking becomes more then just peak bagging, but a journey. The AT is very good for hikers for those who visit the Whites.
i dont recall the AT ever not being noted on signs. the notation is small and secondary, but it is there.
why should the name "Appalachian trail" be more prominently displayed on a sign for the crawford path?
its not a conspiracy against the AT. its the simple truth that the AT is not something most "customers" of the white mountains care about.
as for blips on maps and something much bigger.... sorry, the WMNF is a bigger deal than the AT. that so many don't see this is the problem.
why is that so hard for people to just accept? always fascinate same.
Starchild
05-24-2018, 09:43
i dont recall the AT ever not being noted on signs. the notation is small and secondary, but it is there.
why should the name "Appalachian trail" be more prominently displayed on a sign for the crawford path?
its not a conspiracy against the AT. its the simple truth that the AT is not something most "customers" of the white mountains care about.
as for blips on maps and something much bigger.... sorry, the WMNF is a bigger deal than the AT. that so many don't see this is the problem.
why is that so hard for people to just accept? always fascinate same.
The AT was left off of signs in 2013 and most all had it scratched in. There were some threads about it. I have no problem with a small (AT) indicator (which was what was carved in). Now, and perhaps due to the kind hearted AT hikers looking out for each other by adding it, AMC has been including such a indication, which is fine, it doesn't need top billing, but it does need to be there.
And as you say if the WMNF is so much 'bigger' then the AT there should be no problem or fear of putting the AT markers up, as if what you say is true, the mountains will speak for themselves.
The AT was left off of signs in 2013 and most all had it scratched in. There were some threads about it. I have no problem with a small (AT) indicator (which was what was carved in). Now, and perhaps due to the kind hearted AT hikers looking out for each other by adding it, AMC has been including such a indication, which is fine, it doesn't need top billing, but it does need to be there.
And as you say if the WMNF is so much 'bigger' then the AT there should be no problem or fear of putting the AT markers up, as if what you say is true, the mountains will speak for themselves.
i didnt hike in the WMNF in 2013 and therefore can't comment on that. in 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011 though the the AT was indicated.
the "fear" is two fold- causing confusion to the vast number of people who are out hiking who aren't looking for the AT and an unwillingness to devote extra resources to a "trail" which only exists in the abstract (as far as WMNF goes) and which is used by comparatively very few people.
maybe drawing a different sort of comparison to similar situations elsewhere would help-
does GCNP go out of it's way to make sure the arizona trail is clearly marked?
what is the marking like along the PCT in yosemite NP and SEKI?
i think the AT is WMNF is just as well, if not better, marked than either of those above examples.
you just want the AT to receive special treatment.
full conditions
05-24-2018, 10:19
i didnt hike in the WMNF in 2013 and therefore can't comment on that. in 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011 though the the AT was indicated.
the "fear" is two fold- causing confusion to the vast number of people who are out hiking who aren't looking for the AT and an unwillingness to devote extra resources to a "trail" which only exists in the abstract (as far as WMNF goes) and which is used by comparatively very few people.
maybe drawing a different sort of comparison to similar situations elsewhere would help-
does GCNP go out of it's way to make sure the arizona trail is clearly marked?
what is the marking like along the PCT in yosemite NP and SEKI?
i think the AT is WMNF is just as well, if not better, marked than either of those above examples.
you just want the AT to receive special treatment.
Also, anyone with a basic level of understanding of how trail maps work can easily navigate the network of trails in the Whites in order to follow the AT. Its just not that difficult.
Gambit McCrae
05-24-2018, 10:24
It all starts with the Approach Trail at Amicalola....when will they extend the Southern terminus to Flagg Mountain, Alabama?
That will never happen
Also, anyone with a basic level of understanding of how trail maps work can easily navigate the network of trails in the Whites in order to follow the AT. Its just not that difficult.
once at cooper lodge on killington, a thru hiker happened along and started asking if he was close to rutland. he was looking for his friends. they were going in to rutland for the night. this is near sunset, and mind you, he is near the top of the highest peak on the AT in VT. he keeps asking, how far is rutland? can i make it before it gets dark? you see, his friends were going there today, so obviously its around here somewhere and cant be that far away.
i didnt bother to try and explain it to him but there are of course multiple ways into rutland from that area and his friends probably got off the trail miles back from where we now were.
its THIS sort of hiker who cant find their way across the whites without getting lost.
there are a lot of them. no one owes them better signage.
That will never happen
Why do you say never? It certainly is discussed a lot. Seems feasible if they re-routed the ~50 miles of road walking on the GA section of the Pinhoti.
full conditions
05-24-2018, 11:51
once at cooper lodge on killington, a thru hiker happened along and started asking if he was close to rutland. he was looking for his friends. they were going in to rutland for the night. this is near sunset, and mind you, he is near the top of the highest peak on the AT in VT. he keeps asking, how far is rutland? can i make it before it gets dark? you see, his friends were going there today, so obviously its around here somewhere and cant be that far away.
i didnt bother to try and explain it to him but there are of course multiple ways into rutland from that area and his friends probably got off the trail miles back from where we now were.
its THIS sort of hiker who cant find their way across the whites without getting lost.
there are a lot of them. no one owes them better signage.
LOL - that's pretty funny. I think that the Whites kinda' hurts the feelings of a lot of thru hikers for a variety of reasons, not just the fact that they have to check their map once in a while - for the first time since leaving Springer, they're hiking on a trail whose first name dosent start with "Appalachian"; blazes are few and far between (although they tend to be wherever you truly need them); campsites are $10.00; huts require work for stay (assuming they even have the room; it's logistically tricky; people seem uninterested when you tell them you walked all the way from Georgia; and worst of all, there's no one doing "magic" at every road crossing for you. A friend of mine put it this way: "not everybody gets a trophy for hiking the Whites".
people seem uninterested when you tell them you walked all the way from Georgia
this is the key thing thru hikers should reflect on. in my experience, these people who respond with this sort of ambivalence or even ignorance of the AT are often clearly VERY experienced hikers. probably much more so than your typical AT thru hiker is these days.
mind blowing right? someone can be a lifetime avid and experienced hiker and not even know the AT exists.
the AT is a big deal in some places but that hardly makes it universally so.
Chunky Gal Trail in Georgia, and the BMT.......
There's a Chunky Gal trail in Ga, too?!?
In PA the A.T. around the Susquehanna River originally overlayed part of the pre-existing Darlington Trail following the Blue (or locally "North") Mountain ridge. None of that overlay is presently part of the A.T., though Darlington Shelter north of Carlisle is near where the current A.T. meets the current Darlington Trail.
I don't think Marty Dominy is on here, though he has been researching for a number of years prior routes and re-routes of the A.T., and could likely rattle off a number of pre-existing paths the A.T. followed.
Why do you say never? It certainly is discussed a lot. Seems feasible if they re-routed the ~50 miles of road walking on the GA section of the Pinhoti.I personally enjoy the road walks, not saying that I would want to do the FT/Pinhoti connector via road walk but a bit of road here and there isn't bad. I still have ~32 miles of road to do on the GA Pinhoti section and am looking forward to it. Have a road walk section in AL this weekend as well.
soumodeler
05-24-2018, 16:56
There's a Chunky Gal trail in Ga, too?!?
Not that I know of. It is in NC, right over the border.
Vermont's Long Trail, sometimes referred to as the Vermont Tr, existed before the AT and is which the AT was modeled. The AT co-joins part of the LT. It's more accurate to state that some trails, actually many trails, named or not, existed pre AT recognition so it is the AT that takes from them not those trails or other trail's segments take from the AT. The Art Loeb Tr, all or in part, was the once the route of AT before the AT was rerouted. Don't know if the Art Loeb Tr existed either by that name or if it was un-named before it became part of the AT. Much of the AT originally was take from pre-existing trail. You may find it interesting to research the historical establishment of the AT. It has evolved through various incarnations so much so the vast majority of it's original routing didn't transpire as envisioned or changed via rerouting. It's why the total mileage changes about every few yrs. For example, the AT's southern terminus was originally Mt Olglethorpe in GA and the Approach Tr was part of it between Mt Oglethorpe and Springer Mt. As another example, Skyline Drive, the road, was originally supposed to be the AT. It truly is amazing the AT, located in the highly populated eastern U.S., so close to so many big cities, with so many threats is still a continuous a 2000+ mile footpath. It's a testament to the lasting commitments of so many. The AT should never be taken for granted!
windlion
05-25-2018, 09:36
It all starts with the Approach Trail at Amicalola....when will they extend the Southern terminus to Flagg Mountain, Alabama?Great Eastern Trail is planned to go by Flagg Mountain, isn't it?
http://www.greateasterntrail.net/maps-trail-descriptions/alabama/
Virginia is Not Flat
Last Call
05-25-2018, 19:05
i dont recall the AT ever not being noted on signs. the notation is small and secondary, but it is there.
why should the name "Appalachian trail" be more prominently displayed on a sign for the crawford path?
its not a conspiracy against the AT. its the simple truth that the AT is not something most "customers" of the white mountains care about.
as for blips on maps and something much bigger.... sorry, the WMNF is a bigger deal than the AT. that so many don't see this is the problem.
why is that so hard for people to just accept? always fascinate same.
wait....the WMNF is a bigger deal than the A.T.??? Hardly. The A.t. most certainly is the King of trails, famous around the globe.
There's a quite narrow focus of hiking opps, in depth regional content, and generalized tangential hiking related topics WB User's focus. Tdozi is correct in stating the AT is not the king of everyone's or every region's or every NF's, or Wilderness Area's or every National or State Park's focus. This applies to those areas the AT is routed. The AT tends to be most highly focused upon here on WhiteBlaze.
wait....the WMNF is a bigger deal than the A.T.??? Hardly. The A.t. most certainly is the King of trails, famous around the globe.
all i can do is shake my head.
johnacraft
05-26-2018, 11:33
The Art Loeb Tr, all or in part, was the once the route of AT before the AT was rerouted. Don't know if the Art Loeb Tr existed either by that name or if it was un-named before it became part of the AT.
While I agree with your point that the AT followed existing trails in some places like the western Smoky Mountains, I don't believe today's Art Loeb Trail was ever part of the AT. Longitudinally, the entire Art Loeb trail is east of Davenport Gap (AT in red, Art Loeb in orange):
42778
The AT section that was abandoned in favor of the route over Fontana Dam was Cable Gap to Tapoco, then Deal's Gap, then Parson Bald. From there the original route of the AT is now the upper 3/4 mile or so of the Wolf Ridge Trail from Parson Bald to Sheep Pen Gap, then part of the Gregory Bald Trail to its junction with the AT at Buck Gap / Doe Knob.
The Art Loeb Trail was dedicated in 1969.
i dont recall the AT ever not being noted on signs. the notation is small and secondary, but it is there.
why should the name "Appalachian trail" be more prominently displayed on a sign for the crawford path?
its not a conspiracy against the AT. its the simple truth that the AT is not something most "customers" of the white mountains care about.
as for blips on maps and something much bigger.... sorry, the WMNF is a bigger deal than the AT. that so many don't see this is the problem.
why is that so hard for people to just accept? always fascinate same.
I agree. I walked through the whites in 2017 and every sign I saw included (AT) in parentheses after the trail name, like the top line on this sign:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180527/7377054aacb60ff0bf471ce3e67bf994.jpg
I suppose I could have missed a sign or two but always felt reassured by the (AT).
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Great Eastern Trail is planned to go by Flagg Mountain, isn't it?
http://www.greateasterntrail.net/maps-trail-descriptions/alabama/
Yes, currently southern end of Great Eastern Trail is Flagg Mountain.
Honestly, it does seem that there is a division among Pinhoti enthusiasts in Alabama at embracing GET. Few to no logos have been put up in AL. Georgia Pinhoti Trail Association is much more supportive and participating.