Info Given On The Trail is Hardly Ever Accurate

[Gambit McCrae]

One of the best tips I can give folks is to know your trip, and have resources available to be educated on key factors about your hike. How many times has that shelter that is "just around the corner" been 2 miles away. Or that was source that is 30 feet down the trail ended up being .4 mile.

I just did Clingmans Dome to Fontana Dam as a quick overnighter and personally was given inaccurate information 3 times.
No I did not ask for this information, nor did I rely on it, but just noted their comments until proven inaccurate.

It is all perspective, and a lot of it is opinionated. "Man that climb was rocky!" Well...not really, yea it had rocks on it? But it wasn't anything more rocky then the last 15 climbs were

Some of it is not opinionated..."There is no water between here and Fontana Dam, better fill up now because that .5 liter is never going to get you to the dam!" Well...Actually sir ya walked right over 2 water sources on your way up the hill, and yes a .5 liter would get me to the dam no problem"

Perhaps others words of others ignorance is not my burden, or perhaps I am just a grouchy old man in a 30 year old body :) haha

My disclaimer: I personally take info given on the trail with a grain of salt, because it time and time again proves to be inaccurate. I have guthooks, I have a paper map, I study the trail on a daily basis. for me this personally more of a rant then looking for guidance on how to not get inaccurate info spewed at me while walking the trail.

[Uriah]

I head to the trails to avoid information, no matter its provenance.

[TNhiker]

one thing to keep in mind-----that stretch is heavily populated...........and by people who dont normally hike or just hike once or three times a year......

and they dont figure on passing someone that is obsessed with the trail....

[Seatbelt]

One of my favorite responses when asking an oncoming hiker how far the next_______(fill in the blank) is; It's about 10 minutes or 30 minutes or whatever. For them, maybe so, but how does their pace compare to mine? It usually takes me longer --unless it is all down hill.

[nsherry61]

I've been told by multiple reliable sources that the secret to accurate information in remote areas is to ask men in pickups. Most information from most people about remote areas is inaccurate or completely wrong, except, men in pickup trucks can be trusted. Thus, the problem is that you aren't asking men in pickup trucks. :-?

[somers515]

One of my favorite responses when asking an oncoming hiker how far the next_______(fill in the blank) is; It's about 10 minutes or 30 minutes or whatever. For them, maybe so, but how does their pace compare to mine? It usually takes me longer --unless it is all down hill.

I actually find that you get better information by asking how long till they left somewhere instead of how far something is away. If they say they left 30 minutes ago, I can usually give myself a good estimate based on their appeared pace of travel. Anyway usually nice to briefly chat with those coming in the opposite direction and trade a little trail info. Not always accurate as the OP correctly notes.

[JPritch]

Yeah, distance estimations are all over the map. I do like messing with people who look like they are about to collapse and want to know how much farther to 'x'. Met one such couple up by Albert Mtn and told the lady she still had about 2 miles to the tower...the look on her face was priceless! I then told her it was about 200 yards just over the crest of the hill behind me. She probably called me every name in the book after I left. :o

[Seatbelt]

I actually find that you get better information by asking how long till they left somewhere instead of how far something is away. If they say they left 30 minutes ago, I can usually give myself a good estimate based on their appeared pace of travel. Anyway usually nice to briefly chat with those coming in the opposite direction and trade a little trail info. Not always accurate as the OP correctly notes.
I usually just add a few minutes to whatever they say, not that it matters much anyway. I, too, enjoy a chat with others on the trail.

[Quik]

I will never forget the nobo AT hiker who told me there was no water for the next 15+ miles and hoped I had plenty for the night. Thank you but did you walk across a footbridge about 1-mile back (it was actually less than that)? Yes I did. That was a water source. No there wasn't any water there then wanted to argue. Okay, have a nice hike. I was also told by the same person it's a steep climb expect it to take at least one hour. I was at the footbridge in 15-min, and crossed a second source the next morning 2-miles south of where I camped and a few more after that.

[double d]

The only concern I have when I talk about trail conditions is accuracy of water sources. Outside of that, I take information from other hikers with a grain of salt.

[MuddyWaters]

I do like messing with people who look like they are about to collapse and want to know how much farther to 'x'. Met one such couple up by Albert Mtn and told the lady she still had about 2 miles to the tower...the look on her face was priceless! I then told her it was about 200 yards just over the crest of the hill behind me. She probably called me every name in the book after I left. :o
After crossing the 10 mile shadeless burned-out area on the CT after Platte river, in really hot conditions mid-day, I watered up at the fire station spigot, ate, rested, etc. This is a water supply everyone counts on.

As I was leaving back to the trail I met a young couple coming toward the fire station. I had spoke to them briefly earlier that day as I passed while they were breaking .

I couldn't resist and told them that the spigot was off and there was no water. The "oh crap" look on their faces was priceless. After a few seconds of anguish, i told them the truth, water was on, plentiful, and cold. They went from as low as you could get to extremely relieved.

[Gambit McCrae]

I head to the trails to avoid information, no matter its provenance.
Useless post...It is as out of place as your location

[Cookerhiker]

I just about never ask for information on the trail ahead of me, likely because I really don't want to know:D. Nor do I offer any proactively, except for interesting wildlife, e.g. there's a bear ahead or I saw a rattlesnake on the rocks.

[PatmanTN]

Yeah, I'm guilty of giving bad advice myself and so try not to give any unless I'm quite certain. I recently told a worn and exhausted family that was hiking in the rain in Shining Rock that they were on a path that would lead them to their van. Through the conversation I thought "their van" was the maroon Honda Odessy that I had parked next to on HWY 215. Guess what? There were at least two maroon Honda Odysseys as it turned out. I assumed the one I saw was theirs and should not have (I met the owner of that van the next day...oh crap) . Hopefully they figured out they still had a 1/4 mile road walk to another parking lot. What a jackass move on my part. Next time I'll just help a confused group read their map if I can and not assume anything.

Regarding bad advice and water: I was camping up at Mt Sterling in the GSMNP few years back and was approached by a panicked young female that told me there was no water on the mountain and could I please share mine? I had just gotten my haul for evening / next morning and told her no, the source is fine.... see? She said she walked and walked down the path but never found any water and turned back. It is marked as being 700 feet off the trail (a permanent wooden sign). I gave in and let her have some to get through the evening but then had to go get more the next day for me. Some folks give up too easy.

[lonehiker]

Yeah, I'm guilty of giving bad advice myself and so try not to give any unless I'm quite certain. I recently told a worn and exhausted family that was hiking in the rain in Shining Rock that they were on a path that would lead them to their van. Through the conversation I thought "their van" was the maroon Honda Odessy that I had parked next to on HWY 215. Guess what? There were at least two maroon Honda Odysseys as it turned out. I assumed the one I saw was theirs and should not have (I met the owner of that van the next day...oh crap) . Hopefully they figured out they still had a 1/4 mile road walk to another parking lot. What a jackass move on my part. Next time I'll just help a confused group read their map if I can and not assume anything.

Regarding bad advice and water: I was camping up at Mt Sterling in the GSMNP few years back and was approached by a panicked young female that told me there was no water on the mountain and could I please share mine? I had just gotten my haul for evening / next morning and told her no, the source is fine.... see? She said she walked and walked down the path but never found any water and turned back. It is marked as being 700 feet off the trail (a permanent wooden sign). I gave in and let her have some to get through the evening but then had to go get more the next day for me. Some folks give up too easy.

She played you.

[TNhiker]

I gave in and let her have some to get through the evening



i find that my ability to give up water (or other supplies) often depends upon how attractive the person is.......

[evyck da fleet]

I rarely care how long it’s been since I passed what may be an insignificant landmark and therefore avoid asking questions that are equivalent to how long or how much money will it cost me to do a thru hike. On the rare occasion if I stop and chat with someone it will be how long did it take them to get somewhere like a viewpoint or summit

i hiked Alum Cave to Mt LeConte a few weeks ago and on the way down my answer to the how far question varied from a while to you don’t want to know

[evyck da fleet]

I rarely care how long it’s been since I passed what may be an insignificant landmark and therefore avoid asking questions that are equivalent to how long or how much money will it cost me to do a thru hike. On the rare occasion if I stop and chat with someone it will be how long did it take them to get somewhere like a viewpoint or summit

i hiked Alum Cave to Mt LeConte a few weeks ago and on the way down my answer to the how far question varied from a while to you don’t want to know

[Traffic Jam]

One of the best tips I can give folks is to know your trip, and have resources available to be educated on key factors about your hike. How many times has that shelter that is "just around the corner" been 2 miles away. Or that was source that is 30 feet down the trail ended up being .4 mile.

I just did Clingmans Dome to Fontana Dam as a quick overnighter and personally was given inaccurate information 3 times.
No I did not ask for this information, nor did I rely on it, but just noted their comments until proven inaccurate.

It is all perspective, and a lot of it is opinionated. "Man that climb was rocky!" Well...not really, yea it had rocks on it? But it wasn't anything more rocky then the last 15 climbs were

Some of it is not opinionated..."There is no water between here and Fontana Dam, better fill up now because that .5 liter is never going to get you to the dam!" Well...Actually sir ya walked right over 2 water sources on your way up the hill, and yes a .5 liter would get me to the dam no problem"

Perhaps others words of others ignorance is not my burden, or perhaps I am just a grouchy old man in a 30 year old body :) haha

My disclaimer: I personally take info given on the trail with a grain of salt, because it time and time again proves to be inaccurate. I have guthooks, I have a paper map, I study the trail on a daily basis. for me this personally more of a rant then looking for guidance on how to not get inaccurate info spewed at me while walking the trail.

Yep, you're grouchy. People are just trying to be friendly and helpful which are desirable traits in humans.

If you don’t want interaction, maybe choose to hike where there are less people? I can recommend a few trails, like the Cumberland Trail and the Benton MacKaye Trail.

[PatmanTN]

She played you.

lol, exactly...when I said some folks give up too easy I meant me.

[Malto]

One of the best tips I can give folks is to know your trip, and have resources available to be educated on key factors about your hike. How many times has that shelter that is "just around the corner" been 2 miles away. Or that was source that is 30 feet down the trail ended up being .4 mile.

I just did Clingmans Dome to Fontana Dam as a quick overnighter and personally was given inaccurate information 3 times.
No I did not ask for this information, nor did I rely on it, but just noted their comments until proven inaccurate.

It is all perspective, and a lot of it is opinionated. "Man that climb was rocky!" Well...not really, yea it had rocks on it? But it wasn't anything more rocky then the last 15 climbs were

Some of it is not opinionated..."There is no water between here and Fontana Dam, better fill up now because that .5 liter is never going to get you to the dam!" Well...Actually sir ya walked right over 2 water sources on your way up the hill, and yes a .5 liter would get me to the dam no problem"

Perhaps others words of others ignorance is not my burden, or perhaps I am just a grouchy old man in a 30 year old body :) haha

My disclaimer: I personally take info given on the trail with a grain of salt, because it time and time again proves to be inaccurate. I have guthooks, I have a paper map, I study the trail on a daily basis. for me this personally more of a rant then looking for guidance on how to not get inaccurate info spewed at me while walking the trail.
The bolded quote was accurate. I don't recall seeing a water fountain on that stretch of trail.

[Slo-go'en]

Time/distance judgements are pretty subjective. I know I always think I've gone a lot farther then I actually have.

That's one down side to the Guthook app. You can quickly find out how far you are from where you were or where your going and that info can be disappointing. You mean I've only gone this far?

[TwoSpirits]

That's one down side to the Guthook app. You can quickly find out how far you are from where you were or where your going and that info can be disappointing. You mean I've only gone this far?

You read my mind.

[Feral Bill]

Official sources are not immune from giving bad information. Best to ask that ranger some pointed questions to verify whatever.

[Deacon]

Time/distance judgements are pretty subjective. I know I always think I've gone a lot farther then I actually have.

That's one down side to the Guthook app. You can quickly find out how far you are from where you were or where your going and that info can be disappointing. You mean I've only gone this far?

At the end of the hiking day when I’m tired and ready to stop - I come upon a sign that says the shelter is two miles - trying to judge those two miles is not easy, seems more like four miles.

I’ve learned to judge distance by watching the clock on my phone. Pretty much it takes an hour to walk those 2 miles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[cmoulder]

Quite a few years back (more than 20... gee I'm gettin' old) a young friend and I were backpacking in the DWG/Blue Mtn (Poconos) area on one of those long, dry PA ridges and a young couple of day hikers wanted some of our water. We had planned ahead and had just enough for ourselves. They didn't appear to be in immediate distress, so I asked to see their map. Of course, no map. So I got out my map and showed them where we were. It was about 1/2 mile back to a clearly marked trail junction, then a left turn and off the ridge about 1.5mi to a town. I'm sure they were pretty thirsty by the time they got there, but if we had given them our water we would had to have done the same thing. Or maybe they mooched some water off somebody else.

[LittleRock]

I just did Clingmans Dome to Fontana Dam as a quick overnighter and personally was given inaccurate information 3 times.
No I did not ask for this information, nor did I rely on it, but just noted their comments until proven inaccurate.

Sounds like you handled it well. The Smokies are full of novice backpackers - giving advice makes them feel good about themselves. They don't know that their information is useless to an experienced backpacker. So just thank them and move on. They'll learn some day - maybe.

[rocketsocks]

I admire those that came before, hiking with no information on water sources, no wingfoot guide, no philosopher stone, no awol/companion, you made your decisions and you lived with it...far as I know nobody ever died of thirst on the AT.

[Dogwood]

So, you're on WB yet don't like unsolicited inaccurate feelings based rambling opinions - "info?" https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/smilies/think.gif


World is knee deep in BS...and none of us are immune to offering our own version of it. NONE of us should pt fingers!


This seems like typically taken solid advice, "know your trip(or be ready to ascertain that knowledge at some pt), and have resources available to be educated on key factors about your hike." For some(many?) AT hikers that most relied upon resource is other people...some of them on trail. Many enjoy "need" personal confirmation, to be assured, to FEEL comfortable. And, that's what they assume everyone also desires or "needs." It's one reason why so many feel more comfortable with, drawn to, the AT(and stay only on it or do like AT cookie cutter like hikes)... the popularity, the familiarity, the "safety net" of it that is assumed provided by the mounds of AT related available opinions - "info" and customary wealth of hikers or people giving it. This is why those we meet, and we ourselves, can, especially on the most popular trails tend to spew unsolicited "info."


Unfortunately, what constitutes "key" knowledge about a hike(and many other things) has become ridiculously overblown especially on hikes of the popular not truly wildreness AT where the trail and hikes on it are massively over analyzed and over documented. This leaves less and less room for being comfortable embarking with knowing less, embracing the deeply unfamiliar-rather than being fearful of it, creativity, innovation, spontaneous adventure and exploration, and in the moment independent self reliant self experience based individual growth as a hiker and person.


Although Uriah's post was dismissed he's right. Many of us many times assume we need to know every detail about every possible thing about each hike to have a safe and enjoyable hike. Much of the AT community is addicted to info overload... often desired or "needed" to hike -often provided through always desired connectivity to the Interwad or the need for others and their opinions - "info." The biggest promoter of this mind numbing massive dung heap of AT opinions - "info" - that is implied has to be or should be known is this site.


This is why more and more self actualized successful AT thru-hikers, after completing their hikes, are stating they were glad they spent little time on WB.


self actualization - the achievement of one's full potential through creativity, independence, spontaneity, and a grasp of the real world

[Odd Man Out]

one thing to keep in mind-----that stretch is heavily populated...........and by people who dont normally hike or just hike once or three times a year......

and they dont figure on passing someone that is obsessed with the trail....

I had just come off the steep descent from the Dragon's Tooth going NOBO and met a couple of day hikers who were struggling to make it up the first mile of that trail (where it is flat and easy). They said to me "I see why they rate this trail as difficult." I didn't have the heart to tell them they had yet to get to the difficult part. I just told them "It gets worse". They didn't look happy.

[Dogwood]

Here's are options to heed(or not) unsolicited rambling version of my BS for gaining trail info from others; can't say if it will be accurate but it's assisted me:


Qualify the info giver(s); be comfortable with the person or persons giving it to you. BTW, don't just ask a Ranger. Ask a Back Country Hiking Ranger. They are often better sources of accurate info.


Be prepared to receive info in a context you may not have anticipated; don't quickly reject it; it still can be helpful. Be ready to receive from and contribute to anyone.


Evaluate and weigh carefully what is shared. That's part of growing in wisdom.


Always remember the info communicated and received, if it's solicited, is dependent on the quality of the question(s). It can be we didn't ask the right question or asked it in a way that wasn't exactly conducive as the thought we had in our head that we wanted answered. Then, we can get frustrated or angry or defensive or dismissive. The onus is on ourselves to communicate clearly in attaining the knowledge we seek.



Foremost, don't embark on any hike assuming info is going to be gained by getting it directly in person from others...once on the hike. That includes expecting constant electronic connectivity. Embark seeking to be self reliant, even if its the AT.


Don't be a grouch. It's only walkin'. https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

[FlyPaper]

I have found that distance estimations for any side trail are almost always grossly over-estimated.

e.g. Water source down a blue blaze, it's "half a mile off the trail". I tend to guess it's going to be more like 0.2 miles when given that information from an individual.

Of course if the source of information is more official, such as a sign at the side trail-head, it tends to be accurate. Individuals, even experienced hikers, tend to grossly over-estimate how far they've walked on a side trail.

[cmoulder]

Also learn to read a map and make some educated deductions based on topography.

Most streams dry up later in the summer, but the last ones to dry up are those that drain from large watersheds. If you have a good topo map you can see these areas. Last year when some friends and I did the Grafton Loop Trail, the weather had been quite dry for a while, although not bone dry from a protracted drought. I figured we'd be able to get water from Chase Hill Brook (large drainage area) but not from the seasonal stream that runs right past Stewart Camp. Chase Hill Brook was indeed flowing nicely and we were glad we took a long lunch there and got fully hydrated and each of us left with 3 liters of water... Stewart was quite dry. (We didn't meet, but Slo-go'en was there around the same time and has a story about this, lol.)

42785

[Cookerhiker]

I had just come off the steep descent from the Dragon's Tooth going NOBO and met a couple of day hikers who were struggling to make it up the first mile of that trail (where it is flat and easy). They said to me "I see why they rate this trail as difficult." I didn't have the heart to tell them they had yet to get to the difficult part. I just told them "It gets worse". They didn't look happy.

Similar story last autumn on my LT/AT hike in Vermont. On my SOBO descent from Stratton Mountain, I was no more than 1/2 mile from the end when I met a couple hiking up. They admitted to going slow. It was around 2 PM and they intended to hike to the fire tower and back in one day. Here's the dialogue reprinted from my trail journal (http://www.trailjournals.com/journal/entry/580633):

“Hi, how far are you going?”
“We’re going to the top. We were just resting”
“You have a ways to go yet.”
“How far?”
“About 3 ½ miles and more importantly, about 1,400' of elevation gain”
“I think we can make it. We’ve done about 1,000' already”
(Incredulous) “Uh, no you haven’t.”
(Showing them my guidebook) “See this reference to IP Road? You haven’t gotten there yet and that’s still only at 2,500'. You need to ascent to 3,900'”
“Oh. How far can we get. Can we see views?”
“Not much with the time you have. Why don’t you just hike as far as you can get and then turn around?”


I suspect they didn't get very far...

[The Old Chief]

Wingfoot's guidebook for 2002 didn't list half the water sources available and many campsites weren't mentioned. He did this on purpose so the hiker could "discover" some things for themselves. He would also list a place to stay and then state it was too expensive for hikers to stay there. The guidebook also made an interesting read as it contained many stories and interesting facts about the land the trail passed thru (the ghost named George at Sarver Hollow Shelter). In many ways the older guidebooks were better.

[soilman]

Don't get your shorts in a bunch if you receive unsolicited inaccurate info while on the trail. I don't like to give out estimates of how far, how long, etc when asked for the simple reason I often have no idea.

[Tipi Walter]

I head to the trails to avoid information, no matter its provenance.

Wholeheartedly agree---although I gather a book full of information from the land around me as I hike but it's info given by Miss Nature to me personally---so I must change your sentence: "I head to the trails to avoid . . . the monkey chatter of other humans (i.e. information) . . ."


I admire those that came before, hiking with no information on water sources, no wingfoot guide, no philosopher stone, no awol/companion, you made your decisions and you lived with it...far as I know nobody ever died of thirst on the AT.

Totally agree. The best way to get info on a trail is to hike it repeatedly. Both directions. And camp on it during all four seasons. What's it like to spend 3 days on your particular trail pulling zeros in your tent during a January blizzard? Where are the low spots that fill with water during a deluge? Where's that secret spring right below the gap that no one knows about?

Most backpackers I encounter on the trail (or any trail) could care less about detailed info of the area. Their eyes glaze over etc. In my opinion it's best if I keep my human interactions to a minimum and get back to my solo trip at all costs.

[Uriah]

Wholeheartedly agree---although I gather a book full of information from the land around me as I hike but it's info given by Miss Nature to me personally---so I must change your sentence: "I head to the trails to avoid . . . the monkey chatter of other humans (i.e. information) . . ."

Good point, Tipi, and well said. Nature's information can be and most often is vital, if only we had the capacity to see and hear! The OP, a fledgling it appears, doesn't quite understand that it's hardly information if it doesn't truly inform. Or how to ignore most of what others may say, especially if said source lacks experience/education. No offense to him, but in time, we learn who to learn from.

[Gambit McCrae]

The bolded quote was accurate. I don't recall seeing a water fountain on that stretch of trail.

Who said anything about a water fountain? :-? I am not good with catching sarcasm, that's the elfs job...But yes there were 2 on the way down from shuckstack, I used 1 which is just south of the "open rocks" and I updated guthooks for both sources.

[Malto]

Who said anything about a water fountain? :-? I am not good with catching sarcasm, that's the elfs job...But yes there were 2 on the way down from shuckstack, I used 1 which is just south of the "open rocks" and I updated guthooks for both sources.
I always have trouble with the "dripping with sarcasm" emoji.