Why not just go ahead and use a bear canister?

[Berserker]

Ok, I’m just gonna go ahead and come out and say that I love my bear canister. My history with food storage is documented on many threads here, so I’m not gonna rehash the whole thing. In a nutshell, for years I was a staunch proponent of hanging (PCT method), then I switched to sleeping with it in my tent if storage (box, cables, etc.) wasn’t provided near where I was camping, and then I started casually using a bear canister after I bought one for my 2013 JMT thru.

All this bear talk recently on WB apparently got into my head and got me “bearanoid” even though I know logically that the chances of even seeing a bear are pretty low (I’ve seen maybe a dozen in 13+ years of hiking). So anyway, I have a Wild Ideas canister I purchased back in 2012 for the aforementioned JMT thru, and I have used it off and on for several of my AT excursions since then. This past week I finished up the 90 miles I had left in PA, and just went ahead and carried it the whole time for the heck of it. Part of the reason I decided to carry it was that I was messing around with my newish pack (Zpacks Arc Haul purchased last year) before the trip, and found out that it fits horizontally on top inside the pack, which is awesome.

So what’s my point here? Well, it’s just to say that the canister gets poo pooed by almost everyone primarily due to the added weight, and I think folks need to consider what this piece of equipment does. It serves 2 main purposes. First off, it’s about as idiot proof and simple a food storage method as you can get that’s portable, thus providing a lot of peace of mind (and I would argue is likely a safer option for the noobs and lazy hikers). For the non-bearanoid experienced folks this may not be a good selling point.

The other main purpose is that it’s a dang good chair. So for me, I removed my normal food storage bag and cord at about 4 oz. Then I added in the Bearikade Weekender at 2 lbs 1 oz. So that’s a net weight addition of 1 lb 13 oz. Now if I were to get a decent chair setup I’m probably looking in the at least 1 lb range. So I figure I’m basically carrying an extra 13 oz over the food bag and a chair.

I already lost the gram weenies who cringed at the idea of carrying a chair, but anyone who stuck around can maybe see the logic here. Carrying a bear can isn’t a huge weight gain (consider it your “luxury item”), it’s a great food storage option and it makes a nice chair.

So perhaps I haven’t sold anyone on it. Bear can users, what do you think? How about the bear can opponents, gram weenies or whoever else doesn’t like them, what do you think? Let’s discuss.

[Feral Bill]

I recently bought an Ursack Almighty (13 OZ), to save the considerable (and sometimes futile) effort of hanging in western forests and sub-alpine areas. It's no chair, but I never carry one, and use a hammock anyway. There is, sadly, no perfect answer to food storage where bears and other potential camp raiders abound. I'll report on the Ursack after enough usage to know something.

[Slo-go'en]

Besides the weight, the bulk of the canister is a big problem. Now you need a pack big enough to carry it and that adds weight too. It takes up the same amount of space whether your carrying 2 days of food or 5 days - if you can fit 5 days of food in it. Then if the canister isn't full, the contents shift around and the weight isn't well distributed. If someday a bear eats all my food, maybe I'll change my mind, but until that happens...

[Nicoleh1]

I'm a section hiker. I leave the bear canister (BV500) home when I can't finagle it into my ULA Ohm. It's my preference to carry the canister but I can't always get it to work with the Ohm. I'm not doing long distances, and the weight doesn't bother me. As Slo-go'en noted, it is the bulk.

[Five Tango]

I own a BV500 and it is truly a Cadillac class piece of gear.However,I am carrying an Ursack Major with the aluminum liner which makes it much more bear resistant and when my sit pad is placed on top of it the liner inside the Ursack will hold up my 148 lb body weight.

However,I still hang my cook kit and first aid/hygiene items pct style in an odor barrier bag as some of my hangs are less than optimal.

[Tipi Walter]

Besides the weight, the bulk of the canister is a big problem. Now you need a pack big enough to carry it and that adds weight too. It takes up the same amount of space whether your carrying 2 days of food or 5 days - if you can fit 5 days of food in it. Then if the canister isn't full, the contents shift around and the weight isn't well distributed. If someday a bear eats all my food, maybe I'll change my mind, but until that happens...

Berserker---You bring up some good points but leave out two major flaws of the bear canister---It's just not added weight but as Slo-go'en says BULK!!. Bulk/weight is the first drawback.

The second is the amount of food you can carry. I routinely carry between 18 to 24 days worth of food and laugh at the idea of stuffing 50 lbs of the stuff in about 4 separate bearvaults. What's your solution??

[Miner]

As someone who hikes regularly in the Sierra Nevada for 25+ years where bear cans are needed in larger areas then anywhere else:. I hate the things and only use them when required. I've never lost my food to a bear even in Yosemite prior to bear cans being needed. The biggest thing is to lessen your chances of even encountering a bear by choosing your campsite wisely and being smart about minimizing food odors. The weight is essentially carrying a useless brick that is also bulky requiring me to bring a heavier pack to carry it than I'd otherwise would. And that weight isn't insignificant. As someone who often goes straight from a deskjob at sea level to the high mountains, I do notice a decrease in my daily mileage when I carry one. For a 2-3 day trip on a tight schedule, that limits where I can go. I don't get enough vacation time to be able to take my time. As others noted, the size and weight don't change even if carrying it just overnight. As a chair it sucks as there is no back support which I want after having to carry that extra weight, so I'm using a log, tree, or large rock to lean my pack against as a back rest while sitting on the ground, even when I have the can. To me, it provides no benefits except to avoid a citation. That said, I'll readily admit it has helped with the Backcountry bear problems caused by past behaviors of the uninformed or just don't care hikers. Downside is I seldom see bears when hiking when I use to see at least one a day so I have few photos of them in recent years.

[nsherry61]

Besides the weight, the bulk of the canister is a big problem. . . It takes up the same amount of space whether your carrying 2 days of food or 5 days - if you can fit 5 days of food in it. Then if the canister isn't full, the contents shift around and the weight isn't well distributed. . .
These arguments are common on these bear canister threads. I'd like to argue against the central premise here.

If you are carrying less food than fills the canister, put other gear in there. Then, the net loss of space is exceedingly small and the shifting food is no longer an issue.

[Gambit McCrae]

Most people wont want to admit to it but I will, Its heavy and if not required I'm not gunna carry it.
Disclaimer, I have only hiked in black bear country.

[Slo-go'en]

These arguments are common on these bear canister threads. I'd like to argue against the central premise here.
If you are carrying less food than fills the canister, put other gear in there. Then, the net loss of space is exceedingly small and the shifting food is no longer an issue.
What other gear are you going to put in there? Clothes? That might not be a good idea.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I started carrying a BV500 last year (after several initial years of PCT hanging and then several years of using my food as a pillow) and so far I’m a fan. It’s stupidly easy to use, takes almost all the planning and human error out of food storage, and is more convenient than previous storage techniques. It packs well with my setup and I have found the “bulk” arguments rather unfounded in my case. As far as the agument that it’s too heavy, my pack with canister is still about 10lbs lighter than my pack was nine years ago, so it certainly doesn’t feel too heavy to me.

Of course as they say HYOH, YMMV, HMHDI, etc. :cool:

[MuddyWaters]

Make all the excuses you like

It boils down to not wanting to be inconvenienced by carrying an extra 2 to 2.5 lb.

I would not shed one tear if canisters were required everywhere.

First it would reduce the number of people out there in the woods. Which would be a good thing.

Second it's the best thing for the Bears.

It's really not that big of a deal
If your pack is too heavy it's not because of the bear canister

[Gambit McCrae]

Make all the excuses you like

It boils down to not wanting to be inconvenienced by carrying an extra 2 to 2.5 lb.

I would not shed one tear if canisters were required everywhere.

First it would reduce the number of people out there in the woods. Which would be a good thing.

Second it's the best thing for the Bears.

It's really not that big of a deal
If your pack is too heavy it's not because of the bear canister

Would it reduce the number of people, or increase the number of fines/ tickets?

428794288042881

[nsherry61]

What other gear are you going to put in there? Clothes? That might not be a good idea.
You mean to tell me you can pack a pack and you can't figure out how or what items could also be packed in a bear canister other than food? Why would it be a bad idea to pack cloths, or anything else in your bear canister for that matter? We pack stuff next to each other in our backpacks all the time, why shouldn't we do the same in a bear canister?

[Lone Wolf]

i'll just continue to sleep with my food

[TNhiker]

I would not shed one tear if canisters were required everywhere.



it will come to that eventually......

[Sarcasm the elf]

i'll just continue to sleep with my food

Just take it out on a proper date first.

[TNhiker]

Why would it be a bad idea to pack cloths





probably the scent of food on clothes.......

[MuddyWaters]

it will come to that eventually......

I agree completely.
Which is why they should just go ahead and do it.
There's no denying it's the best thing for the Wildlife.

Only reason not to.... Is not to inconvenience voters

[HooKooDooKu]

i'll just continue to sleep with my food
I hope that's not your attitude EVERYWHERE...
Specifically the area that comes to mind is Great Smoky Mountains National Park. You're required to camp at designated camp sites where you're required to hang your food on the bear cables provided at each campsite.
Every year, campsites get closed for relatively long periods of time because someone didn't want to take the time to hang their food (if EVERYONE did, then bears would never get access to human food and become a nusance).

While there's always the HYOH disclaimer, everyone also needs to realize that different places carry different requirements. I think the bulk of the AT allows sleeping with your food, but GSMNP and other locations along the trail DO NOT.
And even then, you have to pay attention to the exact regulations in effect in an area you plan to camp. Even areas that require bear canisters, they vary in exactly what they require. Some effectively say "any commercially available bear canister", while others limit canisters to a set list specific model numbers.


As to the OP's comments, I must agree that while camping on the JMT, the Bearikade was a great way to deal with food storage. Not only was it easy to use and kept the bears away, it also kept critters out. But if I'm camping someplace like GSMNP, where food storage is effectively provided (i.e. bear cables), a stuff sack to hang food is a lot lighter and keeps the food from the bears just as well.

[stephanD]

I bought a bear canister in 2015 for my thru hike, but never used it. Your thread definitely makes me think hard about carrying it for my section this summer in Virginia. In many parts of the trail bears are losing their fear of humans. And, i admit, i'm a lazy hiker, so i just want to "set it and forget it" so to speak. The drawbacks, as already mentioned, are the weight and bulk. I guess it is a matter of habit and "acquired taste".

[moldy]

The Appalachian Trail does not have a "bear problem". Every year we have thousands of hikers, hundreds of thousands of nights on the trail, nobody get's et by a bear. It's so rare for a bear to draw blood with the current systems of cables and boxes and hanging food that heavy,large, expensive canisters are not needed.

[wolfywolfy]

I use the Bare Boxer 101. It weighs 1.6lbs and is just the right size for me. I can carry 5 days of food in it but then again I am older and really short and only eat 3/4lb per day of food when on the trail.

[ant]

It’s 2018. There has got to be tech that allows for a canister that isn’t two pounds. I don’t think the Ursack is it. Unless I must, I’d rather not carry the weight or bulk nor pay to rent or purchase. Also, why are they so expensive?

[rickb]

While there's always the HYOH disclaimer, everyone also needs to realize that different places carry different requirements. I think the bulk of the AT allows sleeping with your food, but GSMNP and other locations along the trail DO NOT.

Like the Whites.

42883 42884

[Burrhead]

I have a BV500. Bought it for use in Grayson highlands and Roan mountain where good trees to hang from are hard to find. Used it on a trip to Big South Fork because I wanted to camp up on the cliffs a couple of nights and just didn't know if I could find a good tree or not. Outside of that I will stick with hanging until a bear or raccoon defeats it,then I will reevaluate things. To me a canister is just another tool in the box. Worth the weight in areas without good trees. Not necessary in places with poles and boxes.

[Malto]

CYOC. But unless required I won't carry one and I own three plus an Ursack. (I used to hike extensive in the Sierra.). I sleep with my food 99% of the time and I also cowboy camp 90%+ as well. To all of those that think you're gonna get ate by bears going after your food answer one question. Why aren't bears attacking you when you are awake to get your food? I will give you a hint...... it is in your possession. Not in your possession then it's free for the taking.

[Shrewd]

Because it’s heavy? I hung my food from the foot end of my hammock on my AT thru.

If i go somewhere more remote and/or solo I’ll hang it.

If I was out west in grizzly country this would be a very different conversation, though - bear can all the way

[blw2]

expensive, heavy, and bulky... all decent reasons to not want to

The thing is, every time I read a thread about food storage,it's almost always about bears... but I'm always thing in the back of my mind about a threat much more prevalent in my estimation than bears...in the majority of places anyway..... rodents, coons, and other small animals really seem to me to be the bigger threat...and for that is what most interests me about the idea of one of these bear canisters....

[becfoot]

I carry a bear canister (the Garcia--I call it "Jerry" for short :) ) because I've mastered all the parts of a great bear hang except for one: I can never get the hang high enough. At the end of a long day, the stress of having to get that thing into a tree, possibly after dark, does nothing for me. At least with a canister, I can stash it far enough from camp that I'm not stressed out about it.

[Venchka]

probably the scent of food on clothes.......
The scent of food is everywhere.
Wayne

[Venchka]

Because it’s heavy? I hung my food from the foot end of my hammock on my AT thru.

If i go somewhere more remote and/or solo I’ll hang it.

If I was out west in grizzly country this would be a very different conversation, though - bear can all the way
You aren’t familiar with the rules in Grizz Country. Glacier and Yellowstone provide poles for hanging at most of the Backcountry campsites. I think that they require canisters in the few places that don’t have hanging provisions. Grand Teton NP requires canisters and provides them free of charge.
The National Forests leave your safety up to you. Self reliance.
Wayne

[foodbag]

Most people wont want to admit to it but I will, Its heavy and if not required I'm not gunna carry it.
Disclaimer, I have only hiked in black bear country.

Same goes for me.

[cmoulder]

And then we're sleeping inside bags made of dead animal products.

[Gambit McCrae]

i'll just continue to sleep with my food


I hope that's not your attitude EVERYWHERE...
Specifically the area that comes to mind is Great Smoky Mountains National Park. You're required to camp at designated camp sites where you're required to hang your food on the bear cables provided at each campsite.
Every year, campsites get closed for relatively long periods of time because someone didn't want to take the time to hang their food (if EVERYONE did, then bears would never get access to human food and become a nusance).

While there's always the HYOH disclaimer, everyone also needs to realize that different places carry different requirements. I think the bulk of the AT allows sleeping with your food, but GSMNP and other locations along the trail DO NOT.
And even then, you have to pay attention to the exact regulations in effect in an area you plan to camp. Even areas that require bear canisters, they vary in exactly what they require. Some effectively say "any commercially available bear canister", while others limit canisters to a set list specific model numbers.


As to the OP's comments, I must agree that while camping on the JMT, the Bearikade was a great way to deal with food storage. Not only was it easy to use and kept the bears away, it also kept critters out. But if I'm camping someplace like GSMNP, where food storage is effectively provided (i.e. bear cables), a stuff sack to hang food is a lot lighter and keeps the food from the bears just as well.


The Wolf don't go to the Great Smoky Mountains National Park - Too many people, too many rules lol

[lonehiker]

When you zone camp in Big Bend National Park you are requested (required?) to sleep with your food.

[Berserker]

Excellent points brought up by many posters. I agree that the downsides of the can are weight and bulk, and that’s why I still don’t carry it every time.

The main reason I have started using it more is that it fits well into my hiking style. I section usually no more than 110 miles at a time, I carry less than 30 lbs (with the can) most of the time, and it fits nicely in my pack.

I also agree with those that down played the bear threat. The can really provides me more piece of mind for smaller critters like mice and raccoons. However, on those rare occasions when a bear is creeping around camp (have had it happen a couple of times) I’d rather have my food in the can. Then of course there’s many portions of the AT where a can is not needed because food storage is provided (GSMNP, SNP, NJ, etc.).

[Berserker]

Berserker---You bring up some good points but leave out two major flaws of the bear canister---It's just not added weight but as Slo-go'en says BULK!!. Bulk/weight is the first drawback.

The second is the amount of food you can carry. I routinely carry between 18 to 24 days worth of food and laugh at the idea of stuffing 50 lbs of the stuff in about 4 separate bearvaults. What's your solution??
You're not a gram weenie girly man like a lot of us, so just strap all four of those Bear Vaults on your pack and haul 'em up there :D

In all seriousness though, I get your point and don't disagree with it. I like using a bear can because it just makes me more comfortable, and fits into my personal hiking style. I do still sleep with the food in the tent sometimes though, and have no issues with others doing that if that's their choice and there are no regulations against it (e.g. such as one is suppose to use the cables in GSMNP).

[fiddlehead]

Too heavy!
In the future, they'll come up with some chemical that bears will not go near.
For now, sleep with it. And learn to camp where no one else does.

[GaryM]

Weight and bulk. How long will you be hiking? Big canister for long walks, smaller one for short walks? How many different size canisters will you need? How much will they cost?
If you want one then by all means take one, if not, well I personally am not fond of being told how to do everything. Educate yourself then make your own decision. Of course you will also carry the responsibility for the choices you make.

[H I T C H]

If your goal is to keep bears from eating human food for their safety then a bear canister may be your best option.

If your goal is to keep bears and other critters from eating what you brought to eat yourself then there are multiple options.

On another note ;I have to ask folks who sleep with their food, "aren't you concerned about other critters?"
Mice can carry as many as 100 ticks. I would be afraid to have food in my tent for fear of mice /ticks /Lyme disease.

[Another Kevin]

Like the Whites.

42883 42884

That's weird. On the face of it, it appears that you can hang your food in a bear bag, but not carry it in your pack that way. "Except while being prepared and consumed" doesn't cover having it while on the march.

I suspect that the intention of the regulation was unattended food, but that's not what the plain text says.

I'd argue that food that's being slept with is attended. The big problem with sleeping with your food is that it does have to be attended. Need to get up in the middle of the night? You have to take it with you. (Not just under the law, but for safety - Murphy's Law says that's when Bruin, or a minibear, will be investigating your tent.)

[Malto]

If your goal is to keep bears from eating human food for their safety then a bear canister may be your best option.

If your goal is to keep bears and other critters from eating what you brought to eat yourself then there are multiple options.

On another note ;I have to ask folks who sleep with their food, "aren't you concerned about other critters?"
Mice can carry as many as 100 ticks. I would be afraid to have food in my tent for fear of mice /ticks /Lyme disease.
I haven't had any other critters try to get my food. I believe my possession theory holds true for other critters as well. I keep my food bag in my bivy under my head. Haven't had any hole crewed in my bivy either.

[tdoczi]

On another note ;I have to ask folks who sleep with their food, "aren't you concerned about other critters?"
Mice can carry as many as 100 ticks. I would be afraid to have food in my tent for fear of mice /ticks /Lyme disease.
i more often than not sleep in shelters with my pack, containing my food bag, under my head.

never has this caused me even the slightest problem. never even had anything even attempt to chew into my pack. doesnt happen. non issue. even when i have heard mice scurrying around in the dark.

one time in a non at shelter i woke up early in the morning face to face with a mouse, but it didnt seem like he had gotten around to trying to chew through my pack yet, though he may have been thinking it over.

[HooKooDooKu]

That's weird. On the face of it, it appears that you can hang your food in a bear bag, but not carry it in your pack that way. "Except while being prepared and consumed" doesn't cover having it while on the march..
The TITLE of 42883 says "possession and storage of food while CAMPING".

When you're on the march, you are "hiking", not "camping". To further explain the difference, there are many places where you need a permit to "camp" but you don't need a permit to "hike".

[martinb]

My hang was purloined in Ocala NF over the winter. Since then I've been using a bare boxer for my short trips. It's really not much more of a hassle, in the pack or weight-wise. Just got back from a four-nighter in Slickrock and it was very nice not having any worries about food theft while away from the campsite or during the night.

[cooper30]

Interesting to read all the opinions here.

I'm just getting back into actual backpacking now that our youngest graduated this month. For the past 20 years I've been getting my fill of the back country by 1-2 week canoe trips...canoeing is easier with kids...you can bring way more stuff.

Anyway, after losing half our food to mice one time in the Allagash (food bag hung on the picnic table ridge pole), I started keeping it in a 5 gallon bucket with a tight fitting lid. That works great in a canoe, but not so good in a backpack. Buckets also work great in deterring raccoons.

Since I'm starting to backpack more and more, I've been debating on what to do as far as rodent/bear proofing my food. I am not good at hanging bags, and I'm not humping a 5 gallon bucket. After spending the last two nights in Baxter and seeing what others were doing, I decided on the BV450 and ordered it when I got home today (before finding this thread). If I find that I still like long distance hiking as much as I did 20 years ago, I'll get a larger canister.

Sure, it's just over two pounds, but that beats having mouse poop in your food (or losing it to a raccoon, bear, etc).

[cooper30]

Interesting to read all the opinions here.

I'm just getting back into actual backpacking now that our youngest graduated this month. For the past 20 years I've been getting my fill of the back country by 1-2 week canoe trips...canoeing is easier with kids...you can bring way more stuff.

Anyway, after losing half our food to mice one time in the Allagash (food bag hung on the picnic table ridge pole), I started keeping it in a 5 gallon bucket with a tight fitting lid. That works great in a canoe, but not so good in a backpack. Buckets also work great in deterring raccoons.

Since I'm starting to backpack more and more, I've been debating on what to do as far as rodent/bear proofing my food. I am not good at hanging bags, and I'm not humping a 5 gallon bucket. After spending the last two nights in Baxter and seeing what others were doing, I decided on the BV450 and ordered it when I got home today (before finding this thread). If I find that I still like long distance hiking as much as I did 20 years ago, I'll get a larger canister.

Sure, it's just over two pounds, but that beats having mouse poop in your food (or losing it to a raccoon, bear, etc).

[HooKooDooKu]

If you're going to carry a bear canister on a regular basis, I would suggest the Bearikade. Constructed of carbon fiber sides, it's lighter than an equally sized Bear Vault, and I love the 3x quarter twit screws to open the lid compared to the tabs you have to squeeze the BV lid past.

I still recall my 1st morning on the JMT, a fellow camper came over to the group I was in for the night asking for help getting their BV open. Temperatures had been pretty cool that night, and the plastic of the BV was pretty stiff. It took two people to open the BV... one squeezing the sides to get the lit past the two tabs, while another person concentrated on just turning the lid.

The Bearikade is expensive (3x to 4x the BV). But if you plan to use it on a regular basis, I think the weight and especially the ease of use is worth it.

The only warning I can give about the Bearikade is that I don't see where it has been certified by IGBC (http://igbconline.org/bear-resistant-products/). So if you plan to travel in an area that specifically requires an IGBC certified products, then the Bearikade isn't for you. But I do know that Bearikade is on the list of approved canisters for use in Yosemite National Park... an area that I believe has perhaps the highest human/bear density combination in the country (i.e. an area you're most likely to encounter a black bear).


{Follow Up}
Regulations for Yellowstone National Park requires an IGBC certified product for food protection in the back country. Since the Bearikade is NOT IGBC certified, it's not legal to use in Yellowstone.

[Berserker]

If you're going to carry a bear canister on a regular basis, I would suggest the Bearikade.
Agreed. If money is not a major factor in the decision and it's going to get used regularly the Bearikade is awesome.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Agreed. If money is not a major factor in the decision and it's going to get used regularly the Bearikade is awesome.

But you still have to worry about bears carrying screwdrivers...

[perrymk]

But you still have to worry about bears carrying screwdrivers...

Bears don't like orange juice

[Sarcasm the elf]

Bears don't like orange juice

Are you saying they drink the vodka straight?

[cooper30]

The Bearikade looks awesome and will be a long-term budgeting goal. Thank you for the info and link.

[scope]

I carry a BV450 - I like it. I'm lazy, so it fits my hiking "style". I put stuff in it too, but I also odor bag my food and other smellys. Mostly hard stuff like my cookware or camp lighting, so its not picking up and holding scent. Becomes a big storage unit for small stuff for which my pack offers no small pockets for. I'm a weekend hiker mostly, so I don't need much food, and I don't want to risk a food bag getting compromised either before or after I hang by the biggest threat, which isn't bears.

[August W.]

My reasons for not carrying a bear canister are:
They aren't perfect. I mean the only consistent ways to get them to fail against a bear is to either not have the lid fully locked (BV lid not screwed on completely) or first leave them out in the weather for many months/years until the canister becomes very brittle. Boo...
Once you eat the food you can't transfer any other items from your pack to the inside of the canister without having to like totally rethink your packing strategy.
It's true that a fed bear is a dead bear and I know that a bear is much more likely to get a food reward from my food bag/ursack, even if the sack isn't fully ripped open. I just don't like bears and if one is going to chew on my food containment system I want that sucker to get enough food reward that he quickly gets habituated and must be put down.
I'm ultralight and canisters aren't.
I'm cheap and canisters aren't.
Bear canisters don't have that cute rope that ursack has and therefore can't be tied off to a tree to encourage a bear to promote the introduction of pests and disease to that tree by ripping it's bark or breaking its limbs/trunk.
It's not fair to use a canister in a pillow fight. Food sacks are fair to use so long as you don't put rocks in them.
Ants have a harder time getting into a bear canister than a food sack. Ants are good protein.
Carrying a canister makes you look like a do-gooder snob.
Using a bear canister as a chair is a good way to tip over and get a bruise. Food sack is much safer.
When you put cool sentimental stickers on a canister it becomes even heavier!
Bear canisters are the tools of a N.P.S. conspiracy to harass and unduly burden backpackers.

[QiWiz]

Berserker---You bring up some good points but leave out two major flaws of the bear canister---It's just not added weight but as Slo-go'en says BULK!!. Bulk/weight is the first drawback.

The second is the amount of food you can carry. I routinely carry between 18 to 24 days worth of food and laugh at the idea of stuffing 50 lbs of the stuff in about 4 separate bearvaults. What's your solution??

18-24 days of food is CRAZY-heavy, but certainly means you can't use a canister system for bears. The most I've gotten into a single canister is about 9-10 days in an Expedition Bearicade. Wild Ideas will make even bigger ones I believe as custom orders if anyone wants one.

[Venchka]

If a person put their mind to it and chose the right location, 3 weeks with 2-3 Ursack Majors wouldn’t be the most horrible thing to do.
Think outside the can.
Wayne

[ant]

Hard to swallow spending nearly $300+ and gaining 2lbs of hard bulk - Bearikade.

[Another Kevin]

I think that at some point there's a Bearikade in my future. I don't want a BearVault because I occasionally hike in the Adirondacks, where some of the bears have learnt how to open one. (Yellow-Yellow became stew several years ago, but she taught the trick to her cubs, and there are still stories of BearVault failures there.) Right now, Eastern High Peaks Wilderness is the only area that I hike were canisters are required, although they're "strongly recommended" on all the NYS DEC lands.

The couple of times I've been to Eastern High Peaks since the rule went into effect, I've used a borrowed or rented Garcia, and I know that's NOT what I want to buy.

I have had a raccoon drag my backpack out from under my feet in a shelter. And there wasn't even any food in it, the food was hanging from the shelter roof [1]. (Little thief shredded my toilet paper, though!)

[1] That wasn't horrible practice, necessarily, under the circumstances. It was -5 °F in the night, and the bears were asleep. I don't do that if there's any sign that they're awake. Even in Eastern High Peaks, canisters are optional December 1-March 31.

[HooKooDooKu]

Hard to swallow spending nearly $300+ and gaining 2lbs of hard bulk - Bearikade.
It's not just the weight but the ease of use that I find the Bearikade to be worth it.

[QuietStorm]

Just got my Bare Boxer. Amazingly light and packable. It’s supposed to be for one person for three days but I put two days in and it’s not even half full. Also easy to open and lock. I carry it in an arc haul zip.


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[perrymk]

This article (https://andrewskurka.com/2018/food-bear-canisters-guide-approved-volume-cost/)has some nice tables comparing the bear canister various options.

[Uncle Joe]

What brand of canister did that bear at Thomas Knob open? Anyone recall?

[MuddyWaters]

Hard to swallow spending nearly $300+ and gaining 2lbs of hard bulk - Bearikade.

Not at all.

That is, when your option is 2.5 lbs

And, you know you can sell it for $275 anytime.

[martinb]

Just got my Bare Boxer. Amazingly light and packable. It’s supposed to be for one person for three days but I put two days in and it’s not even half full. Also easy to open and lock. I carry it in an arc haul zip.


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I put five days worth in, easy. I think they estimate for people packing mountain house-type meals.

[Berserker]

What brand of canister did that bear at Thomas Knob open? Anyone recall?
It was never confirmed, but suspected to be a Bear Vault.

I highly doubt it was a Bearikade...too many people complaining about the cost of one, so I doubt anyone on the East coast is using one other than myself a few other individuals.

[Sarcasm the elf]

What brand of canister did that bear at Thomas Knob open? Anyone recall?


It was never confirmed, but suspected to be a Bear Vault.

I highly doubt it was a Bearikade...too many people complaining about the cost of one, so I doubt anyone on the East coast is using one other than myself a few other individuals.

I very much wonder if user error was involved, especially if it were a BV, as it’s easy enough to imagine someone a accidentally or intentionally storing it without the lid fully screwed down into the locked position. I’ve found it tempting to be lazy and not screw the lid of mine fully into the locking tab from time to time (especially if I think I’m going to access it again soon), which is a bad ha it that I’ve had to force myself not to get into.

[Another Kevin]

I very much wonder if user error was involved, especially if it were a BV, as it’s easy enough to imagine someone a accidentally or intentionally storing it without the lid fully screwed down into the locked position. I’ve found it tempting to be lazy and not screw the lid of mine fully into the locking tab from time to time (especially if I think I’m going to access it again soon), which is a bad ha it that I’ve had to force myself not to get into.

No idea about Thomas Knob. The bears in Eastern High Peaks use a claw to break the locking tab. They actually saw Yellow-Yellow do it, the second or third time they captured her. (Her name comes from the fact that she wore two sets of yellow ear tags.) The DEC won't mention the BV by name but simply states that bear canisters made of transparent plastic are not recommended. Yellow-Yellow has long since been turned into stew, but she taught her cubs and the problem is worse than ever. But only in that one little area. Canisters are still optional (officially recommended, but not required) in High Peaks west of the MacNaughton-Street-Nye ridge.

For the Bearikade, a human needs a screwdriver, but I bet that one of these years some bear will develop a trick to open it with his bear hands.

[Berserker]

No idea about Thomas Knob. The bears in Eastern High Peaks use a claw to break the locking tab. They actually saw Yellow-Yellow do it, the second or third time they captured her.
Since no one uses a canister down in this area I highly doubt the bear at Thomas Knob figured out how to open a Bear Vault. It was likely user error or the bear got lucky...or maybe he and one of the ponies were in cahoots and the pony kicked it open for him :D

[Sarcasm the elf]

Since no one uses a canister down in this area I highly doubt the bear at Thomas Knob figured out how to open a Bear Vault. It was likely user error or the bear got lucky...or maybe he and one of the ponies were in cahoots and the pony kicked it open for him :D

Never trust a feral pony. :D

[August W.]

I very much wonder if user error was involved, especially if it were a BV, as it’s easy enough to imagine someone a accidentally or intentionally storing it without the lid fully screwed down into the locked position. I’ve found it tempting to be lazy and not screw the lid of mine fully into the locking tab from time to time (especially if I think I’m going to access it again soon), which is a bad ha it that I’ve had to force myself not to get into.

User error is highly probable as is user misuse. Though I have never met anyone who's done it I have seen hikers suggest in other popular online chit-char formats the removal of the locking tabs on the BV. Seems some are too lazy and/or weak to both press and twist the lid.
I own the Garcia, BV, and a Bearikade. Purchased in that order. The first 2 collect dust now.

[scope]

Not at all.

That is, when your option is 2.5 lbs

And, you know you can sell it for $275 anytime.

Optimistic, but still able to sell at good value assuming its not artfully decorated (like my BV is).


...Constructed of carbon fiber sides, it's lighter than an equally sized Bear Vault, and I love the 3x quarter twit screws to open the lid compared to the tabs you have to squeeze the BV lid past.

I still recall my 1st morning on the JMT, a fellow camper came over to the group I was in for the night asking for help getting their BV open. Temperatures had been pretty cool that night, and the plastic of the BV was pretty stiff. It took two people to open the BV... one squeezing the sides to get the lit past the two tabs, while another person concentrated on just turning the lid.

The Bearikade is expensive (3x to 4x the BV). But if you plan to use it on a regular basis, I think the weight and especially the ease of use is worth it.

So, I am all too familiar with that cold morning circumstance with the BV. Still, its something you learn and move forward from, so its not like every outing is like this. I'm prepared for cold weather with a tool to press the tab, and the fact that I will need some tack/pressure to turn while pressing. Its just not that bad. It is bad, though, when you're not prepared for that sort of thing, especially in the a.m. when coffee is necessary!

I would imagine that the unscrewing and screwing the Bearikade top open and closed is somewhat conducive to leaving it open for longer periods. Maybe that's just "not that bad" either... HYOH.


Are you saying they drink the vodka straight? If you leave it out, I'm pretty sure that's how they would do it. Gosh, I'd love to see that.

[C4web88]

My reasons for not carrying a bear canister are:
They aren't perfect. I mean the only consistent ways to get them to fail against a bear is to either not have the lid fully locked (BV lid not screwed on completely) or first leave them out in the weather for many months/years until the canister becomes very brittle. Boo...
Once you eat the food you can't transfer any other items from your pack to the inside of the canister without having to like totally rethink your packing strategy.
It's true that a fed bear is a dead bear and I know that a bear is much more likely to get a food reward from my food bag/ursack, even if the sack isn't fully ripped open. I just don't like bears and if one is going to chew on my food containment system I want that sucker to get enough food reward that he quickly gets habituated and must be put down.
I'm ultralight and canisters aren't.
I'm cheap and canisters aren't.
Bear canisters don't have that cute rope that ursack has and therefore can't be tied off to a tree to encourage a bear to promote the introduction of pests and disease to that tree by ripping it's bark or breaking its limbs/trunk.
It's not fair to use a canister in a pillow fight. Food sacks are fair to use so long as you don't put rocks in them.
Ants have a harder time getting into a bear canister than a food sack. Ants are good protein.
Carrying a canister makes you look like a do-gooder snob.
Using a bear canister as a chair is a good way to tip over and get a bruise. Food sack is much safer.
When you put cool sentimental stickers on a canister it becomes even heavier!
Bear canisters are the tools of a N.P.S. conspiracy to harass and unduly burden backpackers.

That's impressive. I haven't seen a complete compilation of the mental gymnastics used to avoid a bear canister until now. Best post in the thread so far lol.

[HooKooDooKu]

I would imagine that the unscrewing and screwing the Bearikade top open and closed is somewhat conducive to leaving it open for longer periods.
Not really, because it's only 3 screws, and they each only require 1/4 turn (90º) to go from "open" to "lock" (they are more like the locks found on most double-hung windows that a "screw", but they use the slot like a screw to prevent bear claws from being able to turn them).

So with a Bearikade, you wind up spending more time looking for your 'screw driver' (coin) that you spend locking/unlocking the lid.

The lid is also attached (like the lid of a Nalgene bottle is, except it's attached to the lid from the inside rather than the outside).

[ki0eh]

That's impressive. I haven't seen a complete compilation of the mental gymnastics used to avoid a bear canister until now. Best post in the thread so far lol.

:banana:D

My own reason: I'm too damn clumsy not to.

[BowGal]

After reading post after post, viewing videos and comparing canisters, I decided to bite the bullet and buy the Bearikade Wilderness.
I live in a remote, off-grid area where I not only backpack, but also hunt. Unfortunately, all our trees this far north are all pine or tamarack...no branches for throwing a PCT-style hang.
For next years AT hike, I have gotten my base weight to 17lbs...so the additional almost 2 lbs adds a bit more for sure. But I know coming into camp at night after hiking 15-20 miles, will be nice not having to hang my food.

[cmoulder]

After reading post after post, viewing videos and comparing canisters, I decided to bite the bullet and buy the Bearikade Wilderness.
I live in a remote, off-grid area where I not only backpack, but also hunt. Unfortunately, all our trees this far north are all pine or tamarack...no branches for throwing a PCT-style hang.
For next years AT hike, I have gotten my base weight to 17lbs...so the additional almost 2 lbs adds a bit more for sure. But I know coming into camp at night after hiking 15-20 miles, will be nice not having to hang my food.

It's your choice and your calculation, of course, but you'll very likely discover after a few days that a bear can is not really needed on the AT.

[BowGal]

It's your choice and your calculation, of course, but you'll very likely discover after a few days that a bear can is not really needed on the AT.
No doubt, but once I’ve received it, going to take out with me on some backwoods overnighters to test it.

Also thinking I have time to re-evaluate my tent situation. Current tent setup is 1643g (3lbs10oz). If I could find the best tent that suits me, I could get my base weight down even with the canister.
I’ve looked at Zpacks, TarpTent, Six Moon and Lightheart...not sure which.

[lonehiker]

Also thinking I have time to re-evaluate my tent situation. Current tent setup is 1643g (3lbs10oz). If I could find the best tent that suits me, I could get my base weight down even with the canister.
I’ve looked at Zpacks, TarpTent, Six Moon and Lightheart...not sure which.

You just need to pull the trigger. Figure out what you can budget for a tent and what features are important to you, then make a decision. You can't really go wrong with any of those companies. And, if you insist on carrying the bear canister, the new tent should about offset the weight costs of carrying it.

[MuddyWaters]

Not really, because it's only 3 screws, and they each only require 1/4 turn (90º) to go from "open" to "lock" (they are more like the locks found on most double-hung windows that a "screw", but they use the slot like a screw to prevent bear claws from being able to turn them).

So with a Bearikade, you wind up spending more time looking for your 'screw driver' (coin) that you spend locking/unlocking the lid.

The lid is also attached (like the lid of a Nalgene bottle is, except it's attached to the lid from the inside rather than the outside).


If you keep a coin in pocket, no need to look far
Some drill a hole, put on string. Helps keep it from getting lost.
Spares are good idea, although you can likely find coin in dirt at well used campsites

[BowGal]

You just need to pull the trigger. Figure out what you can budget for a tent and what features are important to you, then make a decision. You can't really go wrong with any of those companies. And, if you insist on carrying the bear canister, the new tent should about offset the weight costs of carrying it.

Ordered the Zpacks Plexamid today. Total weight of tent + stakes is 482g.
So weight savings on tent is 1200g.

[saltysack]

Optimistic, but still able to sell at good value assuming its not artfully decorated (like my BV is).



So, I am all too familiar with that cold morning circumstance with the BV. Still, its something you learn and move forward from, so its not like every outing is like this. I'm prepared for cold weather with a tool to press the tab, and the fact that I will need some tack/pressure to turn while pressing. Its just not that bad. It is bad, though, when you're not prepared for that sort of thing, especially in the a.m. when coffee is necessary!

I would imagine that the unscrewing and screwing the Bearikade top open and closed is somewhat conducive to leaving it open for longer periods. Maybe that's just "not that bad" either... HYOH.

If you leave it out, I'm pretty sure that's how they would do it. Gosh, I'd love to see that.

Not optimistic at all...I actually made money off my Bearikade.....disclosure I found it on Craig’s list for $80 in Florida!!! Can’t remember what exactly I sold for but was close to $275-300.


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[C4web88]

It was never confirmed, but suspected to be a Bear Vault.

I highly doubt it was a Bearikade...too many people complaining about the cost of one, so I doubt anyone on the East coast is using one other than myself a few other individuals.

It was a bear vault....just did a loop recently that included the Thomas Knob shelter and did some research prehike and found this review on hikingupward concerning the loop:

"We began our week long backpacking adventure with great anticipation. We stopped at the ranger station and were told of some bear activity around Rodo Gap Trail and Thomas Knob Shelter. The Nation Forest Service has placed an electric fence with a bear proof metal box inside the fence at the Thomas Knob Shelter and just north of the shelter they placed an electric fence but without the bear proof box. We camped north of the shelter and placed our BV450 Bear Vault inside the fence. One other couple placed their BV450 in the fence along with another individual placing a Bear Bag. Awaking Tuesday morning to our surprise out Vault was outside the fence and all our food eaten except for the coffee and the lid bitten and clawed open. The other couples BV450 was opened in the exact same manner and their food eaten. So, nothing to do but hike out with one nutrition bar between us and return home to re-supply. We reported this to the ranger station and they took pictures telling us they would make a report to the NFS. Grayson Highlands and the surrounding territory will always be favorite but be aware a bear or bears can open the BV450 Bear Vault."

[MuddyWaters]

It was a bear vault....just did a loop recently that included the Thomas Knob shelter and did some research prehike and found this review on hikingupward concerning the loop:

"We began our week long backpacking adventure with great anticipation. We stopped at the ranger station and were told of some bear activity around Rodo Gap Trail and Thomas Knob Shelter. The Nation Forest Service has placed an electric fence with a bear proof metal box inside the fence at the Thomas Knob Shelter and just north of the shelter they placed an electric fence but without the bear proof box. We camped north of the shelter and placed our BV450 Bear Vault inside the fence. One other couple placed their BV450 in the fence along with another individual placing a Bear Bag. Awaking Tuesday morning to our surprise out Vault was outside the fence and all our food eaten except for the coffee and the lid bitten and clawed open. The other couples BV450 was opened in the exact same manner and their food eaten. So, nothing to do but hike out with one nutrition bar between us and return home to re-supply. We reported this to the ranger station and they took pictures telling us they would make a report to the NFS. Grayson Highlands and the surrounding territory will always be favorite but be aware a bear or bears can open the BV450 Bear Vault."

The more important fact is that the electric fence didnt work at all.

No bearcan is bear proof.
Even to approve for grizzly I a its 1 hr of bear-play.

Given time, a bear will get into any cannister, which is why the rangers at yosemite say keep it close and drive any bear away by shouting, banging pots, etc.

[MuddyWaters]

It was a bear vault....just did a loop recently that included the Thomas Knob shelter and did some research prehike and found this review on hikingupward concerning the loop:

"We began our week long backpacking adventure with great anticipation. We stopped at the ranger station and were told of some bear activity around Rodo Gap Trail and Thomas Knob Shelter. The Nation Forest Service has placed an electric fence with a bear proof metal box inside the fence at the Thomas Knob Shelter and just north of the shelter they placed an electric fence but without the bear proof box. We camped north of the shelter and placed our BV450 Bear Vault inside the fence. One other couple placed their BV450 in the fence along with another individual placing a Bear Bag. Awaking Tuesday morning to our surprise out Vault was outside the fence and all our food eaten except for the coffee and the lid bitten and clawed open. The other couples BV450 was opened in the exact same manner and their food eaten. So, nothing to do but hike out with one nutrition bar between us and return home to re-supply. We reported this to the ranger station and they took pictures telling us they would make a report to the NFS. Grayson Highlands and the surrounding territory will always be favorite but be aware a bear or bears can open the BV450 Bear Vault."

The more important fact is that the electric fence didnt work at all.

No bearcan is bear proof.
Even to approve for grizzly I a its 1 hr of bear-play.


Given time, a bear will get into any cannister, which is why the rangers at yosemite say keep it close and drive any bear away by shouting, banging pots, etc.

[TNhiker]

although you can likely find coin in dirt at well used campsites




this is true and reminds me of my trip up to big schloss one year...

my dad dropped me off at the bottom trail so i could make loop (cant remember trail name) and i was feeling like crap and throwing up...

one of the first campsites i saw, that was about 300 yards from the trailhead at road, i could spot a coin in the dirt from about 50 feet away or so..

also, could see, while it was worn and matched surroundings, that it was a wheat penny.....

[MuddyWaters]

I found coins at several campspots on jmt

Possibly dropped bearikade "keys"

[C4web88]

The more important fact is that the electric fence didnt work at all.

No bearcan is bear proof.
Even to approve for grizzly I a its 1 hr of bear-play.


Given time, a bear will get into any cannister, which is why the rangers at yosemite say keep it close and drive any bear away by shouting, banging pots, etc.

For sure, was merely answering what a couple people in this thread asked. I do find it interesting it was able to power through the fence or figure out how to bypass it. When I hiked past the TK shelter, I noticed the fence was intact and theres an actual bear box inside of the fence as well.....

[Berserker]

Just for the record, I just got back from doing part of ME (Rangeley to Monson) and although it appears to have been completely unnecessary I carried my bear can the whole time. I don't know what my point is here other than to say that it's not a big deal carrying one in my opinion.

[Cosmo]

The times they may be changin’. See:
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/nfsnc/news-events/?cid=FSEPRD591471

Cosmo

[MuddyWaters]

I been sayin for years

1. It would happen eventually
2. Its the right thing to do to reduce bear-human interactions and protect bears, in THEIR home


The only possible argument against, is humans are lazy and selfish, and prone to destroy everything they come in contact with