View Full Version : The dizzying array of gear choices
Hey everyone, it's Friday and I just feel like posting something rambling and incoherent while goofing off on the company's dime, so please bear with me, or not.
I'd like to begin with this quote, familiar to many: “Who has not felt the urge to throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." - John Muir
As one of my favorite quotes of all time, it causes me to reflect on just how much gear is out there to choose from these days, and to realize just how spoiled we very well may have become, as members of the modern hiking community. It's not such a simple thing anymore to make the "right" gear selection. Many times I'll think to myself that I've "got it down" when it comes to my gear list, then all of a sudden something "better" comes along.
All those different "D's" of rip-stop nylon, cuben fiber aka Dyneema in a half-dozen thicknesses, sil-nylon, LiteSkin, eVent, Gore Tex aluminum, titanium, stainless steel, goose down, water-resistent goose down, Hollowfill and a zillion other different synthetic fibers, lithium batteries, regular batteries, a hundred different manufacturers of tents, backpacks, shoes, headlamps, quilts, knives sleeping bags, what size pot should I use, alcohol stove, canister stove, tuna can stoves, Jet Boils, Pocket Rockets, Nalgene, CNOC, Platypus, Camelback, Smart Water liter bottles, Tyvek, polycro, cottage industries, mainstream manufacturers, tarps vs. tents vs. hammock vs. bivy sack - a veritable dizzying cyclonic, tornadic, whirlwind of information and choices, choices and MORE choices!
Enough already I say! Curse you REI and Patagonia and the other early starters who launched an outdoor gear revolution! How do I wean myself away from all of this? A rhetorical question, but feel free to answer anyhow, as it is always good to gain other perspectives on topics like this.
OK, now that I have that out of my system I'm going to sneak off to YouTube and look at gear reviews - I don't want to miss out on anything. Have a great Friday everyone!
colorado_rob
06-29-2018, 09:44
Yep, it's a zoo out there! Tough navigating for some.
My all-time favorite gear review site is "outdoorgearlab.com" Check 'em out. I personally don't have the patience to watch most of those YouTube gear reviews, too much unrelated talk about their dogs, mothers, whatever, plus a lot of those folks just talk too slow and don't get to the point quickly enough. All reviews have some bias, of course, I just find that the gear I've bought has accurate reviews on outdoorgearlab. Check 'em out.
nsherry61
06-29-2018, 09:56
. . . a pound of tea in an old sack . . .
First, I'd like to note that a pound is a ridiculous amount of tea!!
Second, like in the world of computers, at some point you just have to jump in and use what you can get now, knowing there will always be better tomorrow. At some point, we learn to realize that what we have is enough and the best is completely unnecessary. As we embrace the minimalist in weight, we can alternatively embrace the minimalist in complexity or technology (tea and bread as you quoted above). We just have to pick the esthetic that puts the healthiest smile on our face and the not let the drive to have the best overpower and distract from the other often more important priorities we have, eh?
. . . yeah, I spent 10 years in Canada. ;-)
Personally, as a minimalist, I like the idea of nothing but the cloths on my back, a loaf of bread and my poncho. For me shelter is a higher priority than caffeine. But then, if I'm taking the trouble to haul around a loaf of bread and minimalist shelter, why not add a few other minimal items in my pack to make my trip more comfortable, like more food variety, some cordage, a foam pad, some water . . . suddenly reality just aint the same as that dream.
Two Tents
06-29-2018, 10:23
Choices, mmmm! You don't need as much as you think you need. You sound hooked. Welcome to the addiction.
One reason we buy is because it reminds of the feelings we experience when we are outdoors, on the trail. Get out more and you'll feel less urge to buy.
nsherry61
06-29-2018, 11:06
. . . Get out more and you'll feel less urge to buy.
I like that approach.
Traveler
06-29-2018, 11:24
Yes, having many manufacturers and retailers in this industry tends to make it progressive and constantly introducing new materials, equipment, and accessories to the market. I remember what it was like 50 years ago when it was cotton in summer, wool in winter, and leather boots for all seasons. Not a lot of choice then.
Now we have the benefit of competition driving research and development and choices abound. There is gear for the family going on a weekend camping trip, the long distance trekker, and all-season hiker that can be accommodated with different types and quality of products. I too tend to keep an eye on new gear announcements and reviews, however I have been pretty well set for the past several years with the choices I have made and only keep an eye on garments or equipment I know are starting to wear out and will need replacing soon.
A great time to be involved with this activity!
Another Kevin
06-29-2018, 13:09
The best gear is the stuff that Just Works, and that I'm so familiar with that I don't need to think about it.
The best example I can think of is my soda-can stove. It isn't even the lastest, most efficient design for a soda-can stove. But it lights every time, and boils my water, and pretty much never needs servicing. I have canister and gasoline-fired stoves, but they mostly stay in the garage at home except in deep winter or if I'm cooking for more than just me. Sure, I look like a hobo, cooking in a Grease Pot over a soda can. So what?
My grubby old REI sleeping bag. I could spend a few hundred bucks to shave a few ounces. Would I sleep as warm? Dunno. Would it be as durable? Dunno. What I have works. Mags uses a similar bag that's a lot lighter than mine, but he's 'vertically challenged.'
My trekking-pole-supported silnylon tent. I could spend about six hundred bucks to get one in UHMWPE. It would be a few ounces lighter. Maybe if I were planning to spend months on the trail, and needing to make big miles. I'm not, and I don't, and I can pitch the one I have quickly because I've got a few dozen nights in it and it's familiar. It replaced a much more conventional dome tent from REI, and was well worth it because I'd made the transition to using trekking poles and it was a weight saving of a couple of POUNDS. In fact, my next move in shelter might be to go a little heavier, and take to the trees.
My middle-of-the-road backpack. It was about the lightest that REI sold in the year that I bought it. I wanted to go with one of the smaller manufacturers and perhaps go lighter still, but I had an REI gift card burning a hole in my pocket, and nothing better to spend it on It's sixty litres. That's 10-15 more than I need on most trips, but when you need the space, you need it. I can't justify to myself having another pack cluttering up the place, so I just suck it up and carry the big one.
All of the stuff is pretty battered, but still serviceable. I'm not going to worry about what the cool kids have.
My summer Big Four weigh 8 pounds, 13 ounces About a pound of that is accounted for by the fact that I'm kind of a big guy, and need big-guy sizes of everything, so my bag, mat, and pack are all larger than someone a little smaller than me could get away with. I'm right on the edge of needing extra-large sizes of things, but I'm deuced uncomfortable in the regular-sized ones, they're just a little bit too small. I could still get rid of about half a pound on each of tent, bag, and pack, but that would cost me well over a thousand bucks, I'm guessing, unless I made some serious tradeoffs about personal comfort. About the only way I could save any weight on the sleeping mat would be to cut it down to thigh-length, and I don't sleep well on a short mat.
The hikers that I see hiking successfully with base weights more than 2-3 pounds lighter than mine (allowing for hiker size)) all have quirky, fiddly, and individualistic systems that work only for the hiker in question. I'm not rushing to emulate them. 1azarus's setup is freaking awesome - but it would take me a LONG time to learn to work it, and I'd probably break things trying.
I can walk through a brick-and-mortar outfitter, look at the gear, and say, "what I have is better for me." It's only the cottage-industry exotica that tempt me at this point, and they just don't look enough better for me to want to jump at them.
I don't know how I've escaped 'gear envy', but it's just not that much of a problem for me.
Odd Man Out
06-29-2018, 13:14
I don't mind agonizing over food and gear so much. After all, while the details are different, at least we know John Muir packed food and gear. But it is a safe bet he didn't pack anything that plugs in. I REALLY hate stressing over electronics: Apple or Android, Sprint or Verizon, InReach or Spot, real camera or cell phone, JPEG or RAW, ear buds or headphones, solar panel or battery pack, etc... If everyone else in the world can't get along with knowing exactly where I piss every day, that's their problem, and if you think the rest of the world cares, then that's your problem, and if you are bored being by yourself, then you must be a boring person.
cmoulder
06-29-2018, 13:25
In fact, my next move in shelter might be to go a little heavier, and take to the trees.
Whoa! If it's any consolation, there are hammock options that are as light as ground options, depending of course upon what is being compared to what.
My summer setup for hanging — including hammock/suspension, tarp/guylines/stakes, under- and top-quilts — weighs 2.66 lb, which is right on par with my similar ground setup.
“Who has not felt the urge to throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." - John Muir
We can still do this...safely and enjoyably. We don't need as much as marketing and the U.S. cultural standards wants us to believe. Remember when we were kids? We'd get on a bike ramble to new places to explore. Sleep out in the woods. We'd get wet, dirty, scraped up, etc and yet we survived AND BECAME STRONGER FOR IT. We didn't need a to anal - ize every thing, including gear or technology.
Take a Primitive Survival Class. Tim Brown's Class taught me much about what we truly need.
Barry Shwartz's Ted Talk was about having too many options it leads to being a perfectionist in our choices; it overwhelms us. It nestles well with your thoughts. https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-pty-pty_packages&hsimp=yhs-pty_packages&hspart=pty&p=ted+talk+too+many+options#id=3&vid=b06dd67bcb6a6e62ca2779582f8bab17&action=click
I hear some folks ramble on, showing pics, etc about gear. Offering up extensive pics and lists of extensive gear collections...basically bragghing about their Materialism. To me it's nothing more than women with over 100 pr of shoes, purses, etc that rarely to never get used or those "tool guys" or man toy accumulations.
Going on very long distance hikes - "thru-hikes" - OUTSIDE OF U.S. CULTURE, SOBERING UP FROM U.S. NORMS, the first two things many become aware of is the spoiled highly consumptive materialistic money oriented nature of being a U.S. citizen. We don't fully realize how we've bought into this culture by ceding our critical thinking and decision making to others until we get outside of the culture for long periods.
Then, we can choose different paths, a more self aware path, that is not based on consumption, Materialism, or an expectation of having to know everything.
As an UL LD hiker I've greatly pared down the amt of gear I primarily use. Adopting one main kit that is slightly tweaked and getting off that typical UL merry-go-round always seeking UL Nirvana was huge for me. UL philosophy has led me to build and live in two different Tiny Houses.
naturegirl90
06-29-2018, 14:22
Seeing all the gear out there sometimes makes me want to throw much of my gear away in order to have a "simpler" hiking experience again. The paradox of choices is overwhelming for sure
LOL at the consumerism disease - simply stop buying the latest crap and go hiking with what you got(less is usually better) - more money to spend on trail food and gas to get to more trail heads. Most any gear will work fine just go and stop trying to spend your way to happiness.
First, I'd like to note that a pound is a ridiculous amount of tea!!
Second, like in the world of computers, at some point you just have to jump in and use what you can get now, knowing there will always be better tomorrow. At some point, we learn to realize that what we have is enough and the best is completely unnecessary. As we embrace the minimalist in weight, we can alternatively embrace the minimalist in complexity or technology (tea and bread as you quoted above). We just have to pick the esthetic that puts the healthiest smile on our face and the not let the drive to have the best overpower and distract from the other often more important priorities we have, eh?
. . . yeah, I spent 10 years in Canada. ;-)
Personally, as a minimalist, I like the idea of nothing but the cloths on my back, a loaf of bread and my poncho. For me shelter is a higher priority than caffeine. But then, if I'm taking the trouble to haul around a loaf of bread and minimalist shelter, why not add a few other minimal items in my pack to make my trip more comfortable, like more food variety, some cordage, a foam pad, some water . . . suddenly reality just aint the same as that dream.
It wasn't a dream. It was, and still can be, the reality. In pics of Muir he was unencumbered by "baggage" - shelter, food "variety", clothing, etc... because he was aware being less encumbered - ensnared - by the entrapments of an over civilized humanity he would better appreciate - be focused on - wilderness - Nature. It's analagous to why many people fast, to take the focus off food, and connect to something else, perhaps something spiritual perhaps something offering a different clearer perspective.
You're "minimalism" being from the U.S. and having lived in Canada for 10 yrs is extravagant - excessive - by many cultural standards. Most often we're not aware of how excessive it is and the consequences.
Consider what Muir said in the late 19th century more than 100 yrs ago.
“Only by going alone in silence, without baggage, can one truly get into the heart of the wilderness. All other travel is mere dust and hotels and baggage and chatter.” - Muir Sounds like Muir depicting WhiteBlaze and BPL user mentalities?
“Thousands of tired, nerve-shaken, over-civilized people are beginning to find out that going to the mountains is going home; that wildness is a necessity; and that mountain parks and reservations are useful not only as fountains of timber and irrigating rivers, but as fountains of life.” - Muir
Another Kevin
06-29-2018, 18:27
... inadvertent duplicate post ....
Another Kevin
06-29-2018, 18:27
Whoa! If it's any consolation, there are hammock options that are as light as ground options, depending of course upon what is being compared to what.
My summer setup for hanging — including hammock/suspension, tarp/guylines/stakes, under- and top-quilts — weighs 2.66 lb, which is right on par with my similar ground setup.
Yeah, I know I can get there ... but I think I'm going to run heavy while I'm learning. Not ready to drop major bucks for all the hammock-specific items I can try stuff out with a sleeping pad and a top quilt (or even a sleeping bag thrown over me as a top quilt) and then lighten up from there. Still need to make or buy a bug net.
Also, I've seen your hammock setup only once, and the conditions were, uhm, less than ideal for a lesson. The other times I've hiked with you, you've gone to ground.
nsherry61
06-29-2018, 18:33
It wasn't a dream. It was, and still can be, the reality. . .
My reference to the dream was an attempt at appreciating the difference between the dream and reality. Sure, you can go out over the fence with nothing but a loaf of bread and a pound of tea (I'm still at a loss as to why anyone would carry an entire pound of tea - roughly 200 servings!). And yeah, Muir strikes a cord in a lot of us with his prose. However, what I'm suggesting is that this dream of simplicity and being close to nature, as wonderful as it sounds, and frankly as awesome as it can be for short periods of time in moderate conditions, is NOT a great experience for an extended period of time. Heat, cold, bugs, uncomfortable terrain, starvation, it all starts to add up to a reality that is vastly different than the dream of being at peace with nature in your simplicity.
Don't get me wrong, I've spent multiple days and nights out in the woods with nothing but the cloths on my back, foraging for wild edibles and making little nests to sleep in. It makes for a great adventure for a limited amount of time in the right conditions. BUT there is a reason that the vast majority of us that spend time outside embrace some creature comforts. And, there are times and places you just cannot be one with nature without enough gear to allow you to survive doing so. Our gear allows us to push the limits of being naked and simple. Not to take anything away from being naked and simple, but IT REALLY IS LIMITING.
Odd Man Out
06-29-2018, 19:54
. ...You're "minimalism" being from the U.S. and having lived in Canada for 10 yrs is extravagant - excessive - by many cultural standards. Most often we're not aware of how excessive it is and the consequences....
All the more reason to travel overseas. There's no better way to get insight into your own paradigm than to experience another's. I just finished reading the new edition of the guide to trekking in the Everest region. The recommended gear lists you sometimes see are so over the top. Yet a porter will haul the gear of two trekkers, plus his own gear. You can bet the porter gets by with almost nothing.
SOBERING UP FROM U.S. NORMS - If there is a phrase that sums things up in a nutshell, this is it.
If you have a moment, Google "poverty in the Third World" and then look at the images. Somehow my choice of titanium pot over aluminum doesn't quite seem as important as it once was....
MuddyWaters
06-29-2018, 23:52
Not so dizzying when you realize that 99% of it is stuff you don't need.
And tea is nasty.
Pointing to a simplistic Utopian vision of Nature devoid of weather, need for sustenance, shelter, insects, etc was never espoused by Muir, Brown, or myself. We can esteem to re-connecting with Nature(going home as Muir said) with less or even no made in a factory gear by having awareness, skills, and techniques that are most useful most often. Without these, YES, LIFE with Nature is REALLY LIMITING. Even gear without these keys to compliment it is limiting. The most important part of - my kit - I bring into the Wilderness is between my ears. I'd always prefer to operate in knowledge and wisdom - with a wide skill set - rather than be solely dependent on the store bought doo-dads in my pack for survival and thriving. I'm alive today after experiencing many potentially fatal events NOT because of gear NOT because I was lucky but because of what I knew and the ability to apply that knowledge(wisdom), to not cede intellect and critical thinking and decision making ability to gear or electronics.
Store bought gear can actually interfere with connecting with Nature and oneself. That's what Tim Brown Jr taught. That's what Muir advocated.
Gear over reliance just as tech over reliance, which we can promote so loudly, as the U.S. sorely has learned from the 911 attacks, and the former Soviet Union learned in Afghanistan, can create a false sense of security, and be exploited as a weakness.
Because of the cultures you come it could very well be you see humanity separate from Nature, and likely above it. Nature is something which humanity owns to be constantly broken down into smaller and smaller parcels to which we vie for, not an integral part of Nature to which humanity belongs. As Muir said, "Most people are on the world, not in it -- have no conscious sympathy or relationship to anything about them -- undiffused, separate, and rigidly alone like marbles of polished stone, touching but separate."
LIhikers
06-30-2018, 10:00
Like Another Kevin I've got what I need and what works for me and my wife (and our dog) and am content with that.
I really don't need or desire the latest and greatest.
In fact, we've gotten to the point where we can wander through Campmor or REI and not buy anything, that's a nice feeling.
Not so dizzying when you realize that 99% of it is stuff you don't need.
And tea is nasty.
I’m caffeine immune so I endorse this post.
But that neo air is still going with me along with a pump sack.
Odd Man Out
06-30-2018, 12:48
Like Another Kevin I've got what I need and what works for me and my wife (and our dog) and am content with that.
I really don't need or desire the latest and greatest.
In fact, we've gotten to the point where we can wander through Campmor or REI and not buy anything, that's a nice feeling.
Dogs can be a great inspiration. When you live with one, you are reminded every day you don't need a bunch of stuff to be happy.
Truth be known, Colin Fletcher and his gear would be doing just fine today.
Wayne
TwoSpirits
06-30-2018, 13:54
In fact, we've gotten to the point where we can wander through Campmor or REI and not buy anything, that's a nice feeling.
This.
With very few and rare exceptions, there really isn't anything I want or need from REI or similar places anymore, and it IS a great feeling!
But now my family sure gets frustrated when they ask what I'd like for my birthday....
First World Problems.
This.
With very few and rare exceptions, there really isn't anything I want or need from REI or similar places anymore, and it IS a great feeling!
But now my family sure gets frustrated when they ask what I'd like for my birthday....
First World Problems.
Or when they give you stuff that is heavier and not as good as your stuff. (Like the multitool much too short spoon someone just gave my poor wife. Heavy steel. ).
I cant start a backpacking trip unless I have my 10 oz UL camouflage Robic 210 850 fp Hungarian Goose Down neck pillow, electric 3 prong marshmallow roaster, and lighted spun carbon graphite and titanium tipped trekking poles that match my LED lit hiking sneakers. It's part of my stealthy but lets be safe and well rested while backpacking plan. When buying my REI 14 oz coffee press and signing up for the REI "How to Hike the AT" class the REI REP commended my approach.
Burrhead
06-30-2018, 20:41
I have an early 80's Kelty super Tioga backpack that I would be willing to trade for a Hyperlight or ZPacks backpack if that would make one of you feel better.
Traveler
07-01-2018, 06:41
Now, why would anyone having "everything they need" waste time walking through an outfitting store unless they wanted to see if there was lighter, tougher, or better gear available than what they had? While Colin Fletcher would do fine carrying the gear he had, I would suggest if it was gear from the first edition book he too would be walking through REI shouldering his "bloody great sack" to see what he can lighten his load with.
Suffice to say, looking at gear (even without intent to purchase) provides some education. Otherwise we would still be in blue jean shorts, leather boots, and carrying canvass packs attached to wood frames.
TwoSpirits
07-01-2018, 09:10
Very true and good points. These days, I find myself in REI shopping for my daughter & son-in-law (gently gently feeding their growing interest), and I suppose it's true I will see some Latest & Greatest...then the games will begin again.
colorado_rob
07-01-2018, 09:41
Now, why would anyone having "everything they need" waste time walking through an outfitting store... We have everything we need for our #1 passion, backpacking, yet we thoroughly enjoy walking 2 miles to our local REI a couple nights a week. What can I say? It's a nice walk, we almost always run into someone we know there (including the store manager, who we've hiked a lot with), and I just plain like looking at gear. We have finally settled down our buying habits because we finally found the ideal gear setup for ourselves.
Sure, people probably over-think the gear thing, and get wound up in buying frenzies, and sure, this is a First World, white-person problem for the most part.
But: I do believe that backpacking is more thoroughly enjoyed with a decent kit of gear.
I've been doing this for 52 years (started when I was 10). Yep, I had a canvas tent, canvas pack, flannel sleeping bag and waffle stompers when I started out in the late 60's. Most people did. I remember being cold, soaked and miserable a lot. I was young and strong back then and I vividly remember the pain and suffering carrying a 40-50 pound pack. This continued well into the 70's. THEN, gear got better and eventually lighter. Wow! Now this Greatest of All Pastimes is the best ever. Light, fairly durable and very functional gear has made is easier to do, more comfortable and much more enjoyable.
All that said, there is some gear where getting good stuff is important, whereas other items, not so much.
In no particular order, getting a good tent, bag and pack is utterly important to a longer-term enjoyable backpacking experience. Someone on here mentioned a phrase that is very wise when buying an important piece of gear: It only hurts once buying a good piece of gear, but it hurts many times to buy a bad one. Something like that. If you really think you'll enjoy backpacking, don't buy cheap for important gear. Get good stuff. If you wind up not really using it, good gear has good resale value (especially on Whiteblaze; I cannot believe how much folks are willing to spend on used gear here!).
Clothes? Plenty of cheap but very functional stuff out there. Seems like retailers thrive on those people always wanting the most fashionable new piece of clothing, really no better than much older stuff. I buy cheap clothing, mostly, though I do think have an excellent rain jacket is sometimes worth it (though for an AT hike, not so much).
'Nuff said. I wax.
nsherry61
07-01-2018, 16:17
Now, why would anyone having "everything they need" waste time walking through an outfitting store . . .
Now Traveler, that just show's your stunning lack of understanding human nature! How the heck do we know we need something until we see it, and, how the heck do we know we have everything, or at least everything we want unless we keep checking back to make sure there isn't something new and necessary? :-?
I'm sure I can come up with some good examples of things I would never have known I needed if I hadn't walking into an REI and seen it:
1) A titanium pot when my aluminum one that was the same size and weight worked just fine, but wasn't as durable and cool.
2) A titanium spoon, a folding spork, a long handled aluminum spoon, and a bamboo spoon all of which I needed in case they were lighter, or otherwise more effective than the cheap plastic spoon that always worked well for me before.
3) An MSR fuel canister because it has float marks on it for measuring content, unlike all my other fuel canisters.
4) BD Distance Z-poles because now I can pack my trekking poles in my smaller carry-on baggage even though TSA says trekking poles aren't allowed in carry-on baggage. And, they're a bit lighter than any of my other three sets of trekking poles.
5) Sea-to-summit inflatable pillow because, even though my cloths, and or my water bladder and/or shoes work as pretty effective pillows, it's really cute and really is a bit more comfortable.
6) GSI Infinity insulated mug. It's just so darn light, water tight lid and insulated. I talked my son and his girlfriend into buying them as the ultimate backpacking mug to take on their PCT thru hike this year. The mugs were two of the three things the shipped back home as soon as they arrived at Mt Laguna because they never use them because they have no desire for hot drinks in the desert!
7) . . . the list goes on.
All I can say is, thank goodness for all those brick and mortar outfitters, all those on-line outfitters, and all those backpacking forums (like WB) that keep informing me, teasing me, and reminding me about how much stuff I don't have that will make my life better once I get them. . . not to mention the shear joy and exuberance I get to feel as I spend hours of my life browsing for things I "need" instead of going out and doing!
MtDoraDave
07-01-2018, 20:37
THIS PLACE is worse than REI, for me... on this topic.
I already have a perfectly fine titanium pot that I got on sale, but because of this place, I bought a grease pot - and I'm probably going to buy an Imusa pot - to use with the Zelph Alcohol stove I bought because I saw it here (even though I already had a perfectly good canister stove).
I bought Frogg Toggs because I heard about them here, weighing half of what my Marmot Precips weigh - which I already owned and paid about 8 times as much for.
I'm probably going to buy some Hounds/ USA Dawgs even though my crocs work just fine for camp shoes... because I read about Hounds here, they weigh less AND can be worn on water crossings.
I bought that Olicamp XTS knockoff pot because I read about it here, even though I already ....
I could go on.
I went to REI today, didn't buy a thing.
I did, however try on multiple pairs of new hiking sandals and boots. I think I'm going to switch from my Targhee 2's to the new Vents. They feel considerably lighter, fit great, and won't stay wet for 2 days when they get wet.
Five Tango
07-01-2018, 21:17
I sometimes wonder if I am the only one who feels like they have a knack for buying the wrong thing first.I went round and round on stoves and pots until I am almost back to where I started.
I sometimes wonder if I am the only one who feels like they have a knack for buying the wrong thing first.I went round and round on stoves and pots until I am almost back to where I started.
And
I did, however try on multiple pairs of new hiking sandals and boots. I think I'm going to switch from my Targhee 2's to the new Vents. They feel considerably lighter, fit great, and won't stay wet for 2 days when they get wet.
Yeah. Trying out new shoes. That is a whole different thing.
:)
nsherry61
07-01-2018, 22:36
. . . I did, however try on multiple pairs of new hiking sandals and boots. I think I'm going to switch from my Targhee 2's to the new Vents. They feel considerably lighter, fit great, and won't stay wet for 2 days when they get wet.
Oh man, you should try out the new Altra Timps. They're pretty fantastic. :rolleyes:
Time Zone
07-02-2018, 09:03
IMO a case can be made for NOT going with buy once, cry once.
For one thing, as a beginner, you may not know if hiking or backpacking is for you. Buy once, cry once usu. involves high end, expensive gear - and in my experience, it's simply not the case that one can recover 90% of that purchase price if you end up finding it's not for you, and you want to sell it. I'm not sure where such marketplaces are, but I've found that lightly-used stuff needs to be discounted at least a third (plus the sales tax) or it'll never sell. Close to half if you want it to sell quickly.
Another thing is, you may not know what kind of gear you like best. Do you like hammock camping? Dome tents? Trekking-pole-supported tents? Do you need more space in your pack because you're a big guy, or can you go lighter? Do you sleep cold at night and can't get by with the same temp rated bags as most other people? Etc etc. It takes experience to dial-in what works for you, and that often means going through various types of gear before settling on one thing or another (if you can even narrow it, if you hike in varying conditions you may want some different gear choices).
Finally, you can keep older gear as loaner stuff, or give away or sell it to someone who wants to get started but lacks the funds to really gear up with brand new gear. And that's a good thing too.
So yeah, I'd say buy once, cry once is a nice ideal, if you know exactly what you need and want right from the start. But I've not found that to be the case with me, and it strikes me to be unlikely to hold for most people generally.
nsherry61
07-02-2018, 10:04
. . . So yeah, I'd say buy once, cry once is a nice ideal, if you know exactly what you need and want right from the start. But I've not found that to be the case with me, and it strikes me to be unlikely to hold for most people generally.
Love this post. Thanks Time Zone.
That being said, I think the buy once, cry once mantra is valid in the cases where people know they want a particular type of gear and are hesitant to put up the money because there is a cheaper option that may or may not do the job as well as the higher end option with a good reputation.
Many times I'll think to myself that I've "got it down" when it comes to my gear list, then all of a sudden something "better" comes along.
Been there, thought that, bought that. It's a hobby . . .
DownYonder
07-02-2018, 17:43
I did, however try on multiple pairs of new hiking sandals and boots. I think I'm going to switch from my Targhee 2's to the new Vents. They feel considerably lighter, fit great, and won't stay wet for 2 days when they get wet.
What are these Vents that you speak of? :eek:
cmoulder
07-03-2018, 06:19
These (https://www.keenfootwear.com/p/M-TARGHEE-VENT.html) perhaps.
Heliotrope
07-03-2018, 08:12
This.
With very few and rare exceptions, there really isn't anything I want or need from REI or similar places anymore, and it IS a great feeling!
But now my family sure gets frustrated when they ask what I'd like for my birthday....
First World Problems.
Same here except REI doesn’t have the stuff I’m drooling over [emoji3]
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MtDoraDave
07-04-2018, 18:40
These (https://www.keenfootwear.com/p/M-TARGHEE-VENT.html) perhaps.
Yes, but the "mid" height version.
I think the Vent is replacing the Voyager, as they didn't stock the Voyager anymore.
After something like 800 hiking miles, my Targhee 2 mid boots (my second pair) gave me a blister and a discolored toe nail.
.
The sandals I tried didn't give me confidence for hiking the uneven terrain we encounter on the AT, while the Vents felt great crawling all around the fake rock thing in the shoe/ boot section of the REI.
poolskaterx
07-04-2018, 23:03
Same here except REI doesn’t have the stuff I’m drooling over [emoji3]
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...same here, I buy socks, fuel, and listen to many of the awful recomendations I hear some of the staff make to unsuspecting buyers. I do still try on that ghost whisperer jacket now an then and quickly put it back on the rack, lol!
Forget new. Be glad that a few relics of a bygone era are still around.
SVEA 123 stoves and Jensen Packs to name 2 items in my inventory.
Alas Garuda tents were gobbled up and killed by a conglomerate buying spree.
Have fun y’all!
Wayne
T.S.Kobzol
07-05-2018, 10:14
in this day and age ... nobody should be seam sealing their tent ... on of the new technology benefits that I appreciate is the ability to manufacture tents that have taped seams. That's my morning rant :-) Not to cottage vendors who make interesting tent designs but still require us to do seam sealing - "You are losing sales" - Just my opinion that's all :-) Cheers.
colorado_rob
07-05-2018, 10:23
IMO a case can be made for NOT going with buy once, cry once.
For one thing, as a beginner, you may not know if hiking or backpacking is for you. Buy once, cry once usu. involves high end, expensive gear - and in my experience, it's simply not the case that one can recover 90% of that purchase price if you end up finding it's not for you, and you want to sell it. I'm not sure where such marketplaces are, but I've found that lightly-used stuff needs to be discounted at least a third (plus the sales tax) or it'll never sell. Close to half if you want it to sell quickly.
Another thing is, you may not know what kind of gear you like best. Do you like hammock camping? Dome tents? Trekking-pole-supported tents? Do you need more space in your pack because you're a big guy, or can you go lighter? Do you sleep cold at night and can't get by with the same temp rated bags as most other people? Etc etc. It takes experience to dial-in what works for you, and that often means going through various types of gear before settling on one thing or another (if you can even narrow it, if you hike in varying conditions you may want some different gear choices).
Finally, you can keep older gear as loaner stuff, or give away or sell it to someone who wants to get started but lacks the funds to really gear up with brand new gear. And that's a good thing too.
So yeah, I'd say buy once, cry once is a nice ideal, if you know exactly what you need and want right from the start. But I've not found that to be the case with me, and it strikes me to be unlikely to hold for most people generally. You make good points, but I still maintain, that you can resell expensive gear for at least 75-80% of initial cost, assuming you don't damage anything. And back to the "Return Every Item" (aka REI) thing, that really is the nice thing about REI, there is some good stuff there, and you can, indeed buy-and-try then return if it's not for you. But again, you make some good points.
I have tons of gear and am impelled to buy more when something looks cool. How many hammocks do we need? How many stoves are needed? Each time I’d get ready to, I would say that I was going to take this stove or this hammock, or this new underquilt, but truth be told, I take what is comfortable and have used before. I have 10 hammocks, 8 stoves, 3 sleeping bags, 3 tents, 3 pads, and 3 packs but I still use the same stuff.
I think we like the idea of something new, but fear failure on the trail if something doesn’t work.
I can understand getting new gear if you hike a great deal, but with me living in Florida, I actually get to do a trip once a year and take the same things. Comfort and capitalism, they don’t really mix well.
Traveler
07-11-2018, 06:36
Comfort is a primary market driver, which capitalism embraces along with other drivers like fear, safety, and convenience. The automobile makes a good example. One does not need an automatic transmission or air conditioning in a car, however comfort in a utilitarian form of transportation and carrying capabilities is attractive to many people who will pay more for these comforts.
Same holds true for backpacking gear. One really doesn't need more than a pair of sneakers, blanket, shower curtain, spare socks, carried in a homemade denim sling ala Gatewood. However, if comfort, safety, and/or convenience are of interest there is a significant capitalism driven market featuring products that address these market interests with things like backpacks, tents, stoves, and a broad array of gear for those who want them and will pay for those things. Blaming retailers because someone continues to purchase gear they never use may be a sign something else is going on beyond consumer marketplace influence.