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Shaker
07-10-2018, 17:31
I have decided to start using a bear canister because I have Parkinson's disease and trying to hang a bag is getting very difficult. There are several other reasons, but all of that has been debated and is not the purpose of this post.

[I]For those of you who use a bear canister, [I]do you pack all of your toiletries, etc. in the canister? I also have to take quite a few medications. Is it recommended to put those in the canister as well? Finally, is the BV450 big enough for the average AT thru-hiker, or would I really need the BV500 to hold everything?

Thanks,
Shaker

Berserker
07-10-2018, 17:53
Technically everything that smells should go in there. So food, toiletries that smell, sunscreen, lip balm, etc.

With that said I normally just put my food, lip balm and cookware (if it will fit) in my can. If I don't have room for the cookware, which I always clean after use, I leave it sitting out away from my tent. I don't carry any other toiletries other than scentless toilet paper and paper towels that I keep in my tent.

As for the meds, I could go either way on that one. They would probably be safer in the can, but if you can't miss taking them I would at least keep a dose or two in the tent with you just in the off event that the can gets rolled away or actually breached (very unlikely to happen). I usually carry a few staples like ibuprofen that I keep in the tent with me.

I can't comment on the Bear Vault because I have only used the Wild Ideas Bearikade Weekender, but I think the capacity of it is closer to the BV500. I can get 5 - 6 days of food in mine if I make smart (compact) food choices and really jamb it in there. The key thing is to make sure whatever can you get will fit in your pack.

Shaker
07-10-2018, 18:38
Technically everything that smells should go in there. So food, toiletries that smell, sunscreen, lip balm, etc.

With that said I normally just put my food, lip balm and cookware (if it will fit) in my can. If I don't have room for the cookware, which I always clean after use, I leave it sitting out away from my tent. I don't carry any other toiletries other than scentless toilet paper and paper towels that I keep in my tent.

As for the meds, I could go either way on that one. They would probably be safer in the can, but if you can't miss taking them I would at least keep a dose or two in the tent with you just in the off event that the can gets rolled away or actually breached (very unlikely to happen). I usually carry a few staples like ibuprofen that I keep in the tent with me.

I can't comment on the Bear Vault because I have only used the Wild Ideas Bearikade Weekender, but I think the capacity of it is closer to the BV500. I can get 5 - 6 days of food in mine if I make smart (compact) food choices and really jamb it in there. The key thing is to make sure whatever can you get will fit in your pack.

Thanks for the reply. I currently have a Kelty Trekker 65 external frame pack, but I'm considering a Zpacks Arc Haul or the ULA Catalyst to make up some of the weight of the canister. (I'm strongly considering an AT thru-hike in 2019). I want to get my bear can and a new down quilt before I pick a new backpack so that I can make sure everything will fit. I'm 6'2", 200-lbs, with broad shoulders, so everything I need weighs more and takes more space. My clothes are bigger and slightly heavier, I have to have a long and wide quilt, a larger tent, etc. I also have a 23-inch torso, so my external frame weighs about the same as the comparable sized internal frame packs such as the Osprey Atmos 65.

Anyways, thanks for the advice.

Shaker

Venchka
07-10-2018, 19:07
Can you tie a knot in 3/8” rope?
An 8 ounce Ursack tied to a tree will thwart a bear.
Or just avoid camping where the occasional trouble bear is.
Cheers!
Wayne

Shaker
07-10-2018, 19:33
I researched and seriously considered the Ursack, but eventually decided against it. But thanks for the response.

Shaker

Shaker
07-10-2018, 19:33
I researched and seriously considered the Ursack, but eventually decided against it. But thanks for the response.

Shaker

Venchka
07-10-2018, 20:07
I researched and seriously considered the Ursack, but eventually decided against it. But thanks for the response.

Shaker
Any particular reason? Did I miss something? I own the Major. Perfect for my needs in the Rockies.
Cheers!
Wayne

Deadeye
07-10-2018, 20:20
I use both sizes of Bear Vault. I can't speak for the Arc Haul, but either size will fit in my ULA Catalyst, the larger size will fit horizontally. I can easily get 3 days of food in the smaller, and with care get 7 days in the larger. If you plan to resupply every 4 days, the smaller one will do the job. There isn't that much weight difference between the two, so I'd opt for the larger for a little more range when wanted.

Slo-go'en
07-10-2018, 20:45
I've never used one, but I've hiked with people who did - for awhile. You have to learn to make the maximum use of the space, which means leaving as little air space between items as possible. Repackage everything into ziplocks. On average, you can resupply every 3 to 5 days. At 7L and change, the BV450 will be real tight for a 5 day load. I typically fill a 12L stuff sack with 5 days of food. You've got a little wiggle room as you don't need to put the first night out of town's food in the canister, since you'll be eating it that night. Since you probably want to start out with a months supply of pills, you have to factor in how much space that will initially take up. It's debatable if you really need to store the pills in the canister. If they fit, fine. If not...

That said, bear boxes and bear poles for food storage are becoming increasingly common along the AT. It won't be too long before every shelter along the AT will have one. The ones which don't currently have a standard issue food storage pole or box are low bear risk sites (but other critters could be a problem). Using a bear pole might be difficult for you (it can be amusing to watch people trying), but it would be a rare day there wouldn't be someone around willing to help you. Another thing to consider, bear vaults are not easy to open.

Shaker
07-10-2018, 21:52
Any particular reason? Did I miss something? I own the Major. Perfect for my needs in the Rockies.
Cheers!
Wayne

I recognize that the chances of a bear actually messing with my food are quite low, but if one did get a hold of my food, I want the best chances for it to stay intact. I also like that the canister will deter all the other critters, as well as help keep my Pop Tarts from getting crushed. I can use the BV500 as a seat; it's waterproof; I can use to collect water for washing up with periodically, etc. But mainly, I just like that it has a much better chance at protecting my food.

Shaker

Shaker
07-10-2018, 22:00
That's exactly the information that I was looking for! Thanks!

I will most likely have my wife to ship my meds to me every other week so I don't have to carry so much. I was thinking that it would probably be a tight squeeze to get everything into the 450, but it sounds like I should be able to get my food, toiletries, and meds in the BV500. I will save about 2.5 lbs when I get a lighter backpack, so that will make up the difference in weight and make my base weight less than 20 lbs.

Thanks again,

Shaker

Time Zone
07-10-2018, 22:21
I have the BV450 and I'd say 4 person-days of food can fit in there, and if you resupply at the beginning of the day, you can keep the resupply day food out of it and ready as long as you are with it always. So that gives you 5 days at most. Less if you have many other things to put in there like toiletries, meds, and so forth. I'd pick based on resupply needs; if the 500 does not fit well in your pack, you can always get a different pack.

The Ursack is something I had high hopes for, since it's light and malleable, but I'm not sure it's as effective. Nothing seems to be 100%, but at least the hard-sided cans are effective against a much more common threat, the smaller animals with teeth and claws sharp enough to get into a regular Ursack or bear bag hang. The 500 will make a decent stool for you, too, and you can use the extra space for non-smellables, esp. stuff you don't want to get crushed or wet. Granted, they could then smell of food, for a little while, but so will you unless you have dedicated disposable dining clothes.

HooKooDooKu
07-10-2018, 22:29
If a bear canister is going to be your go-to protection system, I would suggest spending the money on Bearikade Weekender or Expedition. They are 3x-4x the cost of bear vault, but they are significant lighter and easier to use IMHO with the 3x "screw" type opener rather than a giant medicine bottle opener.

The only down side to a Bearikade (other than cost) is that it is not IGBC certified. So you can't use it in places like Yellowstone NP where IGBC certified canisters are required (they have grizzlies). But the few places that I've researched that only have black bears seem to have loose enough regulations that the Bearikade can be used (such as Yosemite BP).

Venchka
07-10-2018, 23:23
Watch a few videos of backpacking in Glacier and Yellowstone. Stuff sacks or backpacks hung from the bear poles at most of the backcountry campsites are sufficient. If you go way back in the woods you might find places where IGBC food storage containers are required.
Common sense still prevails in a few corners of the world.
Wayne

martinb
07-11-2018, 08:57
Have a look at the Bare Boxer. I have one and it holds four days of food, easily, if you are freezer bag cooking.

http://www.bareboxer.com/

MuddyWaters
07-11-2018, 09:22
If a bear canister is going to be your go-to protection system, I would suggest spending the money on Bearikade Weekender or Expedition. They are 3x-4x the cost of bear vault, but they are significant lighter and easier to use IMHO with the 3x "screw" type opener rather than a giant medicine bottle opener.

The only down side to a Bearikade (other than cost) is that it is not IGBC certified. So you can't use it in places like Yellowstone NP where IGBC certified canisters are required (they have grizzlies). But the few places that I've researched that only have black bears seem to have loose enough regulations that the Bearikade can be used (such as Yosemite BP).
The bearikade was grandfathered because it passed previous testing protocol. Which involved dropping 100 lb wt onto it.

Disadvantages of bearicade.....top doesnt seal well. Yes, theres an o ring. No, it doesnt work. In rain you need to put it upside down, above ground (on rocks,etc), to avoid water intrusion.

Top lid is flimsy alumunum and easily bent or flexed Hence why it leaks. To seal againt oring requires totally flat, as try to squeeze stuff in first time.even very gently....you bend lid and will never ever be same. Even without, sealing pressure from latches is applied in 3 spots on a flexible lid. Bend it enough and theres a lip a bearclaw could catch on to rip it apart.

Price...a bit ridiculous to save 8 oz honestly, but so what.

Shaker
07-11-2018, 09:22
Thanks for everyone's responses. I have looked at the bareboxer, but it seems a little small - I want to put all of my food in it, plus meds and toiletries. It would be nice if my stove and cookware would fit as well, so that all of my cooking and smelly stuff will be in one container. This will make it easier for me in camp, where I am the slowest. I can hike just fine, it just takes me longer than average to get camp set up and broken down.

I doubt that I will ever get to backpack out west, so that is beyond the scope of my planning right now. Again, because good tree limbs are hard to find, and because I have difficulty throwing a line over a limb because of my Parkinson's, I have decided to go with a canister so I can just walk it away from camp and leave it.

I would love to have a Bearikade for the additional weight savings and the ease of opening, but I just don't think that it's going to be in the budget. I opened a BV500 at an REI several weeks ago and didn't have any trouble. I can also use a pocket knife or credit card to open it if needed.

I was hoping to go with the BV450 for the space savings, but it seems as though I will need the BV500 to fit everything. On my last trip I packed most of my food in 2 leftover nut jars (30 oz plastic canisters), and was able to get quite a bit in them. I found that I liked having some crush protection for my food. I just wasn't sure how much stuff I could get in the Bear Vaults by just looking at them, though.

Again, thanks for all the responses.

Shaker

MuddyWaters
07-11-2018, 09:36
I would love to have a Bearikade for the additional weight savings and the ease of opening, but I just don't think that it's going to be in the budget. I opened a BV500 at an REI several weeks ago and didn't have any trouble. I can also use a pocket knife or credit card to open it if needed.


The difficulties in opening bear vault are often induced by pressure and temperature changes.

Know how hard it is to open a new vacuum sealed jar? Well, this is why you dont want an airtight bear can. I read an anecdote years ago of someone thathad to submerge their bear vault in cold water to get it open. And differential expansion of different lid/body materials created lids that couldnt be turned. Most these issues were resolved. But shows mfgs ignorance.

But point is....what works in store at room temp is in no way indicative of performance in field.

Berserker
07-11-2018, 10:22
Thanks for the reply. I currently have a Kelty Trekker 65 external frame pack, but I'm considering a Zpacks Arc Haul or the ULA Catalyst to make up some of the weight of the canister. (I'm strongly considering an AT thru-hike in 2019). I want to get my bear can and a new down quilt before I pick a new backpack so that I can make sure everything will fit. I'm 6'2", 200-lbs, with broad shoulders, so everything I need weighs more and takes more space. My clothes are bigger and slightly heavier, I have to have a long and wide quilt, a larger tent, etc. I also have a 23-inch torso, so my external frame weighs about the same as the comparable sized internal frame packs such as the Osprey Atmos 65.

Anyways, thanks for the advice.

Shaker
I'm 6'-5" 195 lbs, and am currently using a Zpacks Arc Haul. So I have the same issue as you (all my stuff is longer/bigger because of my height). The Bearikade Weekender fits horizontally inside the top of the Arc Haul, which surprised me because I bought the "V" strap to place it on the outside on top of the pack (as shown on the Zpacks website), and I don't pack particularly light (normal load with food is usually 27 - 32 lbs). So I'd imagine the BV450 would fit in there easily, and not sure about the BV500. What you can do is get your pack, then make a model of whatever bear can you want out of cardboard and see how it fits.

Night Train
07-11-2018, 12:44
Pack whatever you feel necessary, in the canister. Pretty straightforward item to manage.

Berserker
07-11-2018, 12:55
Disadvantages of bearicade.....top doesnt seal well. Yes, theres an o ring. No, it doesnt work. In rain you need to put it upside down, above ground (on rocks,etc), to avoid water intrusion.

Top lid is flimsy alumunum and easily bent or flexed Hence why it leaks. To seal againt oring requires totally flat, as try to squeeze stuff in first time.even very gently....you bend lid and will never ever be same. Even without, sealing pressure from latches is applied in 3 spots on a flexible lid. Bend it enough and theres a lip a bearclaw could catch on to rip it apart.

Price...a bit ridiculous to save 8 oz honestly, but so what.
I agree that the top will leak, but it usually results in an insignificant amount of water in the can. I either set it upside down like you suggested (if expecting heavy rain), or I put anything that will get ruined if it gets wet into Ziploc bags. Most of the food I carry is in its factory sealed packaging so this usually is a non-issue.

Not sure about the "flexible lid" thing. I have put a decent amount of pressure on my lid, and it's never flexed that I have noticed. I agree that it could be bent, but one would have to really crank down on it while it was in an awkward position to make that happen.

George
07-11-2018, 23:55
what I put in mine is gummy bears and my teddy bear - I tried once to put a real bear inside but he did not care for the idea

HooKooDooKu
07-12-2018, 09:44
The difficulties in opening bear vault are often induced by pressure and temperature changes.
Yea, this...
Opening a BV is all about bending plastic, and there is a big difference in what it takes to accomplish this between room temperature in a store on a brand new canister v a cold morning in the woods.
(First morning on the JMT, a fellow camper came over to our campsite to request aid getting into their BV. It took two of us AN the credit card trick to get it open, and temperatures we not all that cold).

HooKooDooKu
07-12-2018, 09:48
The bearikade was grandfathered because it passed previous testing protocol. Which involved dropping 100 lb wt onto it.
What exactly do you mean by 'grandfathered' here?

The basis for my comments were the simple fact that Bearikade is NOT IGBC certified, that some places like Yosemite list specific bear canisters that are allowed (and this is one of them), other places simple say something like 'hard-sided commercially sold bear canister', and a few others such as Yellow Stone, require IGBC certified canisters.

Venchka
07-12-2018, 11:38
What exactly do you mean by 'grandfathered' here?

The basis for my comments were the simple fact that Bearikade is NOT IGBC certified, that some places like Yosemite list specific bear canisters that are allowed (and this is one of them), other places simple say something like 'hard-sided commercially sold bear canister', and a few others such as Yellow Stone, require IGBC certified canisters.
Competing approval standards.
The Rockies standard: IGBC. The Bearikades failed. The Ursack passed.
The West Coast standard, I don’t remember the official title.
The Bearikade passed. The Ursack passed. The West Coast folks said that the bears could get a taste of human food through the fabric. Therefore the Ursack was banned.
Meanwhile the folks at Big Bend NP took a more enlightened approach: They accept containers from both testing protocols. How refreshing!
As for the East Coast...Whatever floats your boat.
Wayne

Time Zone
07-12-2018, 18:03
As for the East Coast...Whatever floats your boat.
Wayne

I don't think this is entirely true. In some parts of western NC there's a bear canister requirement and it specifies,

"Bear canisters are still required in the Shining Rock Wilderness, Black Balsam, Sam’s Knob and Flat Laurel Creek Areas of the Pisgah Ranger District, Pisgah National Forest. ...


All bear canisters must be commercially made; constructed of solid, non-pliable material manufactured for the specific purpose of resisting entry by bears."


[emphasis mine]

See:
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/nfsnc/alerts-notices/?cid=stelprd3832543

Venchka
07-13-2018, 00:02
The Canister Plague spreads.
Just exactly how bad is the bear problem in those areas?
Is Linville Gorge canister free? I’m pondering a quick trip to the Gorge in October.
Wayne

DownYonder
07-13-2018, 07:25
The Canister Plague spreads.
Just exactly how bad is the bear problem in those areas?
Is Linville Gorge canister free? I’m pondering a quick trip to the Gorge in October.
Wayne

I do not think that a canister is required in Linville Gorge but it would be worth a call......
Pisgah Ranger District at (828) 877-3265

MuddyWaters
07-13-2018, 07:37
The Canister Plague spreads.
Just exactly how bad is the bear problem in those areas?
Is Linville Gorge canister free? I’m pondering a quick trip to the Gorge in October.
Wayne
Cannisters are the solution

People, are the plague.

Logistical Jedi
07-13-2018, 12:02
I used the BV500 on the JMT last year and was able to pack about 10 days of food with some forethought and a lot of pushing. For shorter days between resupply I would think the smaller one would work fine. All depends on what you want to take and the days between resupply. Other option is what my brother thought of last year on the JMT, just fill the thing with Peanut Butter :) One word of caution though the lid can be tricky, especially if it is cold. A knife or other flat object that you can use to push the tabs around the locking mechanism is worth it. I've hear of people using the edge of a credit card as well. As for scented items I have gone both ways. I've kept scented items like chap stick with me in Grizzly country and hung everything in Black Bear country. I would keep meds with me though, especially if they are important or may need to take quickly for the onset of symptoms.

Shaker
07-13-2018, 12:23
I used the BV500 on the JMT last year and was able to pack about 10 days of food with some forethought and a lot of pushing. For shorter days between resupply I would think the smaller one would work fine. All depends on what you want to take and the days between resupply. Other option is what my brother thought of last year on the JMT, just fill the thing with Peanut Butter :) One word of caution though the lid can be tricky, especially if it is cold. A knife or other flat object that you can use to push the tabs around the locking mechanism is worth it. I've hear of people using the edge of a credit card as well. As for scented items I have gone both ways. I've kept scented items like chap stick with me in Grizzly country and hung everything in Black Bear country. I would keep meds with me though, especially if they are important or may need to take quickly for the onset of symptoms.

Thanks for the response. I have studied the issue with the lid and will have a pocketknife and credit card with me. One guy even taped a small section of a hacksaw blade to his to use like a credit card. I will definitely keep a certain amount of the meds with me so if the canister disappears overnight I won't be up the creek without a paddle.

Shaker

JohnThe Snail
07-16-2018, 21:33
I use 500 from time to time while hiking (I like having the seat option among other things). One thing I've done is tie a length of para cord to it. One you have the cord if needed, plus you can then tie the canister to a tree at night to help prevent it from disappearing if something decides to play with it.

Time Zone
07-16-2018, 22:52
I use 500 from time to time while hiking (I like having the seat option among other things). One thing I've done is tie a length of para cord to it. One you have the cord if needed, plus you can then tie the canister to a tree at night to help prevent it from disappearing if something decides to play with it.

I'm not so sure that's advisable; I vaguely recall reading something about not doing that, for it gives the bear some leverage against the container. Maybe that was something else. Hard to remember for sure, but consider it.

Berserker
07-17-2018, 12:10
I use 500 from time to time while hiking (I like having the seat option among other things). One thing I've done is tie a length of para cord to it. One you have the cord if needed, plus you can then tie the canister to a tree at night to help prevent it from disappearing if something decides to play with it.
A bear canister keeps bears (and other critters) out via 2 design features as follows:

The can is made of materials so it can't be easily breached, and 99.9% of bears don't know how to breach the lid.
When sitting out loose the bear cannot easily get leverage on it to breach it.


So, based on #2 I think tying it down, wedging it between trees or rocks, or any other method of "securing" it so it doesn't get rolled away defeats one of the main design features of the can. It's best to leave it sitting somewhere loose, and just make sure it's in a location where it can't be rolled down a hill or into a stream or creek if it gets messed with. On the East coast there are not many places where a bear is likely to even do much with a canister yet since it is fairly uncommon to see them used in this region. I picture a bear sniffing it, maybe pushing it around a little, and then moving on. So far my can has always been sitting in the same spot I left it in the night before.

JohnThe Snail
07-18-2018, 22:40
Thanks for the info, hadn't thought of that. Will definitely take it under advisement. Always just figured at worst the bear would just kind of be playing tether-ball with it.

Deadeye
07-20-2018, 12:50
I"m not sure if a cord would help a bear open the container, but it may help it drag the thing so far away you can't find it! Agree with the previous advice - just put the canister someplace where it won't roll away if disturbed and you'll be fine.

FWIW, I've been using canisters for a decade both on the trail and for food caches, and they have always been right where I left them.

Tipi Walter
07-20-2018, 13:34
The Canister Plague spreads.

Wayne

Yes, totally agree.


I do not think that a canister is required in Linville Gorge but it would be worth a call......
Pisgah Ranger District at (828) 877-3265

The Gorge does not require a canister, thankfully. Nor does the adjacent Pisgah NF---Steels Creek, Upper Creek, Harper/North Harper, Wilson Creek, Lost Cove Creek etc.

I used a couple Bearvaults once and it must be remembered that a bear can slap these babies down a mountain side and worry them to death. They roll. One found my vaults and I had to walk a couple hundred feet down the hill to find them. Unopened!!

43227

Venchka
07-20-2018, 15:07
Studying how people behave in Real Bear Country: Glacier and Yellowstone National Parks for future trips.
Everything said in this thread is 180 degrees opposite to what is practiced in those parks.
The Park Service campsites have a kitchen area with fire grate, seating and a bear pole. Food stays in the kitchen area. Period.
Shelters and sleeping gear are carried to the designated sleeping area some distance from the kitchen area where the food is kept.
People hang their packs with all food, smellables and trash from the bear poles in the kitchen area. These practices are shown in several videos online. It’s not heresay.
That makes a 110% more sense than this East & West Coast centered discussion.
It makes sense to me.
Wayne

BowGal
07-20-2018, 19:18
I undersrand about the 100’ away from your tent. How easy is it to maintain that distance on the AT when you have a dozen or more other hikers at the same site? Obviously not everyone would have a canister, but hate for someone to trip over it.

Berserker
07-23-2018, 12:45
I undersrand about the 100’ away from your tent. How easy is it to maintain that distance on the AT when you have a dozen or more other hikers at the same site? Obviously not everyone would have a canister, but hate for someone to trip over it.
Depends on where you are on the AT, but in most cases if you really wanted to get 100' away from your tent at a minimum you could walk 100' North or South on the AT and set it off to the side somewhere making sure you are not near some one else's camp. If on a blue blaze trail (i.e. like at a shelter) you could do the same thing. In some areas where the understory isn't super thick you can walk off in whatever direction you want and set it off in the woods.

HooKooDooKu
07-23-2018, 15:07
Studying how people behave in Real Bear Country: Glacier and Yellowstone National Parks for future trips.
Everything said in this thread is 180 degrees opposite to what is practiced in those parks.

Aren't those the only two national parks in the lower 48 with grizzlies?
If so, it would stand to reason that they would have different procedures that other places that need only deal with black bears.

Berserker
07-23-2018, 15:56
Aren't those the only two national parks in the lower 48 with grizzlies?
If so, it would stand to reason that they would have different procedures that other places that need only deal with black bears.
Yes, I believe they are.

And to tie this together with the similar discussion going on in the "sitting on bear cans" thread in the gear forum I posted the following in response to Venchka in regards to the differing procedures in Yellowstone/Glacier:

“I saw your posts on this in the other thread and this one, and had a comment. While I don't disagree with the example you have brought up of what is done in Glacier/Yellowstone, that won't currently work along the AT.

The issue along most of the AT is a matter of "infrastructure" for lack of a better term. As everyone on here knows most of the forest along the AT has a very thick understory from spring though the fall, so it's not easy to just meander off into the woods in any direction especially to do an activity like cooking. Also, most shelter areas along the AT are not set up with separate cooking areas, and are set up for cooking/eating at the shelter with no other adjacent area for this activity. So the only way to practically cook in a separate area from a campsite or shelter would be to either walk down the AT or blue blaze side trail and cook somewhere along the side the trail.

To implement what you are suggesting would require clearing another area near shelters and campsites, and designate it a cooking area. A good example of this along the AT is the Liberty Springs campsite in the Whites. This area has several tent platforms, and a separate cooking area.”

Venchka
07-23-2018, 16:06
Aren't those the only two national parks in the lower 48 with grizzlies?
If so, it would stand to reason that they would have different procedures that other places that need only deal with black bears.
They deal with both. National Parks along the Divide from Grand Teton to Jasper and Mt. Robson Provincial Park all deal with bears similarly. Boxes and poles are preferred.
The East Coast is different.
Wayne

Venchka
07-23-2018, 16:07
Sorry. The West Coast is also different.
Wayne