View Full Version : When to put the Puffy back in the pack for the year
Gambit McCrae
07-16-2018, 07:59
I don't take a puffy year round on the trail. I typically don't start taking it again on trips until mid to late October but I was watching red beards Long Trail hike thru Vermont which started June 1st nobo and they seemed to be wearing their puffys an awful lot. I will be walking Goose Pond MA, to Hanover starting Sept 1st, and wandering if I will need it that soon in the season? Red Beard was saying while he was hiking it was in the 40's some mornings, When I walked from Salisbury, CT sobo 240 miles last October, I sent my puffy, beanie and gloves/ leggings home after 5-6 days because they were never being used.
I also figured I would bring my megalight sleeping bag which is what I use all summer, but if I need a puffy I am wondering if I need my 15* only due to I sleep pretty cold. I am comfortable in my 30* bag all summer but am never too hot when I don't zip it up.
Two Tents
07-16-2018, 08:35
I can only speak for myself. I hike in a short sleeve capaliene. I have arm sleeves diy from a pair of womens tights ( the ankle cuff style make sweet sleeves)to add to that tee if I need. I have a silk long sleeve top to wear as jammies. Silk bottoms also. Spare sleep socks I only carry my lightest puffy to wear at stops or at camp. No fleece, no other top or hood. I do use my silnylon AntiGravity gear, pit zips rain coat for my shell and wind shirt as needed. Being I'm carrying a summer weight quilt which gets me to 40. I can wear the puffy under the quilt if things got bad. Apex resists moisture and therefore I can and will hike in it if needed. The puffy is a Nunatak Skaha pullover. I've always went with if you can't wear everything at once you are carrying too many articles of clothing. Just sayin'.
MuddyWaters
07-16-2018, 08:49
99% of time i have a light puffy
Except low elevation hot weather
Which i tend to avoid
Even damp with sweat at 65 F, a sub 10oz puffy is great.
My insulation is long john top, fleece, puffy, windshirt
They are mixed and matched as needed
Theres times i bring puffy and not fleece, etc, as its lightest. Hard to beat 5.9 oz.
Just Bill
07-16-2018, 08:56
Lotta stuff going on there:
Simple answer- September in Vermont is not summer. So puffy and warmer bag (your typical fall choices it seems) make sense.
Southerner, section hiker, and September... consider it fall.
Better answer-
Your personal layering system and how UL you want to be... plus how often you're on the trail.
When I'm in better shape and what most would consider a distance hiker... I'm still a bigger guy. I'm 190 in peak shape and 230 in desk jockey shape. So I've got a bit more mass keeping me warm and usually don't need much more than a vest. I also have a summer sleeping quilt I can wear as a camp puffy. I tend to switch to a true WPB shell (vs a windshell) around that time which helps bump things a few degrees. I also tend to carry a few different top layers others might not so the puffy isn't as critical. I'm pretty good overall and the vest is my safety piece realistically.
Many hikers are pretty lean, in both physique and clothing carried. In truth a nice light puffy may be the lightest choice. So that thrift store poly button up shirt or base layer top for hiking may be the extent of the wardrobe. The puffy goes on as the insulation layer and that's that. The kit is basically puffy or no puffy (summer vs shoulder season). Western hikers tend to prefer the one piece on stop/camp piece as well as the day is a bit more cut and dry. It's either warm or it's not. You're moving or you're not. Or you top out a climb and you're up on the ridgeline longer. There is less of the frequent up/down cycle going where multiple light pieces you can vent make more sense. This kit usually involves a 20* quilt as the basis of the sleep system as well. You're not as likely to swelter in it out west or in shoulder seasons... so you have less need for various clothing if you're pushing a summer bag to maintain better balance.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that the Long Trail is western hiking- but Maine Junction or so is roughly the spot where that style works well enough out east.
Realistically it's also the spot where you're far enough north that what you might call summer isn't truly summer gear.
I like a summer 45* quilt, a few layers, and vest for early fall. But again, I run hot and don't mind getting up and hiking (or hiking lower) if I'm cold.
But that said... most folks you'll run into have a puffy and 20* bag in their long trail kit.
Vermont as a whole is moderate to difficult hiking... so many folks are doing less hours on trail... a bit more time in camp... and are in a bit more recovery mode (colder) when resting as a result. That's the reason I mention the different body types really. A fella like me is built for up north and I wear my skirt well into the 20's- but put me down south and I sweat worse than a glass a sweet tea even in the shade. You put that lean mean hiking machine body type up north and the chill bites a bit worse than someone with more mass.
You will probably miss it... but you can get frost or even snow on the north half of the long trail in September.
Doesn't seem like much difference in latitude perhaps as you reach the VT border, but Maine Junction is about that point where you are truly 'north' in my opinion. Probably not a good reference for you, but we Midwestern's joke a bit about lower peninsula and upper peninsula Michigan being two different countries for many reasons. Vermont is the AT equivalent in my opinion. It's where you switch from an eastern hardwoods to a true northwoods ecosystem as well.
I don't know Red Beard personally but if I recall he's on the tall/lean spectrum and hikes nationally (east and west) so his gear selection probably has as much to do with that background as the trail itself.
I pack more of a midwest/east style of system that works for my body type.
Vermont is a transition state in so many ways it's not a stretch of trail I'd say has any real hard fast rules. Flexibility and a bit more caution is probably best in selecting insulation/clothing.
i wouldnt mess with 40 degrees and rainy in VT in mid september, which youre likely enough to encounter.
i dont backpack in winter so i dont have real winter gear. but the above conditions are something i bring my "cold weather" gear to.
fiddlehead
07-16-2018, 09:26
I have a puffy and a feathered friend's down vest.
I always have one or the other with me.
Usually the puffy as I'm skinny and love being too warm.
But since lately, I've been hiking higher elevations, it's the puffy as it gets cold up above 10,000' even in the summer.
Slo-go'en
07-16-2018, 09:39
It can get pretty darn nippy in September in Vermont. High 30's - low 40's are common early in the morning. 60's during the day. Once the sun goes down, it can get cold quickly.
Although on average our fall weather is getting milder for longer periods, short cold snaps for a few days are common. A cold front also generally triggers a day of cold rain. But once it clears, it is magnificent out. Cool, crisp, clear.
Always have at least a down vest. I’ll suffer the extra 4 oz weight.
thom
All my hiking is in Maine and NH. Since that frigid 4th of July when everyone was in their bags at 6pm, I've never left my puffy behind.
HooKooDooKu
07-16-2018, 13:07
Doing the JMT in July of 2016... morning temperatures around mid-to-low 40s. The puffy made it a whole lot easier to get out of the sleeping bag in the mornings.
I rarely hike without a puffy coat. Even if I never put it on, it wads up and inserts into a cotton stuff sack to serve as my pillow. I have been at elevation in June and July where I was glad to have it in the morning as insulation.
That time of year and that far up? I'd have a synthetic or down puffy for sure. The only way I'd consider skipping it is if I was spending -zero- time hanging around in camp. Temps in the high 30's-low 40's means you have to keep moving to stay warm without a dedicated insulating layer.
This thread made me buy two puffy jackets....lol
Two Tents
07-22-2018, 08:42
This thread made me buy two puffy jackets....lol
I just ordered a Nunatak JMT I hear what you are saying.
red beard is a Florida boy. Us FL boys aren't acclimated to the cold.
When I first moved down here, it was many moons ago one July from Virginia. Then it I down even further South in the Tampa area. That same year when I went back home to coastal NC to my parent's house for Thanksgiving I thought I was going to freeze to death.
I'm a believer that acclimation to temperatures plays a huge role.
I like Just Bill’s approach.
I was going through Vermont on my thru in....late July, I think? Maybe early August?
Anyway there was a nasty little day where it was 40s and rainy all day. I was chilly but was mostly ok in my light Tee and rain jacket (a helium 2) while hiking. But boy was that the first day in awhile I was hoping for climbs just to stay warm.
When we got to camp I pitched my tarp as quickly as I could, set everything up and then changed into my dry camp clothes, which were just another pair of shorts, a light Tee, and my Patagonia puffy.
After eating a hot meal and climbing into my hammock still wearing the puffy and cuddled in my quilts I shivered for quite a while, and my hands didn’t get warm for hours.
Bring the puffy. I always throw mine in my pack unless I’m going on a quick overnight in hot weather
That day is what prompted me to have my 20deg UQ shipped back to me along with my thermals, which I carried the rest of the way to Maine.
I only wore the thermals a couple of times (wind jacket for the win) but man I wore that puffy around camp almost every night
I've seen fifty degree temperature swings in July in the mountains more than once. For some easy and/or short one or two nighter - I may leave it. For longer-ish stuff like the sections we do (150 miles up to and past 250 miles), as Shrewd said, I bring my puffy. The trail has taught me that lesson. Much more so up in Vermont/New Hampshire in September or later. Last October while you were in CT, I was up in Mid & Southern Maine and had light frost on two mornings.
And FWIW, I'll be up there that time frame too, finishing up my last section & the trail. My plan is to sobo from Wentworth NH (25a) down to Bennington VT. Likely we'll bump into each other - which will be pretty neat - as we did indeed meet on my first long section down in GA a few years back now.... Come on September!
u.w.
Crushed Grapes
07-22-2018, 19:55
red beard is a Florida boy. Us FL boys aren't acclimated to the cold.
When I first moved down here, it was many moons ago one July from Virginia. Then it I down even further South in the Tampa area. That same year when I went back home to coastal NC to my parent's house for Thanksgiving I thought I was going to freeze to death.
I'm a believer that acclimation to temperatures plays a huge role.
Lol, love this. My in-laws are in Bradenton (originally from VA), and when it gets down in the 70's, my father in law builds a fire?
Gambit McCrae
07-23-2018, 13:51
I've seen fifty degree temperature swings in July in the mountains more than once. For some easy and/or short one or two nighter - I may leave it. For longer-ish stuff like the sections we do (150 miles up to and past 250 miles), as Shrewd said, I bring my puffy. The trail has taught me that lesson. Much more so up in Vermont/New Hampshire in September or later. Last October while you were in CT, I was up in Mid & Southern Maine and had light frost on two mornings.
And FWIW, I'll be up there that time frame too, finishing up my last section & the trail. My plan is to sobo from Wentworth NH (25a) down to Bennington VT. Likely we'll bump into each other - which will be pretty neat - as we did indeed meet on my first long section down in GA a few years back now.... Come on September!
u.w.
MAN! Wont that be cool :) we will have to get a picture together!
bigcranky
07-24-2018, 08:40
I took my hooded puffy on our Long Trail hike, which was basically the entire month of July, and I wore it almost every day. It was also part of my sleep system (~45F quilt). We had temps into the mid 50s every night and dipped into the 40s several nights up north. Was very glad to have it. In July.
Gambit McCrae
07-24-2018, 10:22
I took my hooded puffy on our Long Trail hike, which was basically the entire month of July, and I wore it almost every day. It was also part of my sleep system (~45F quilt). We had temps into the mid 50s every night and dipped into the 40s several nights up north. Was very glad to have it. In July.
Thanks BC!!! I plan on taking the puffy, and my 30* bag. going to leave the thermals and gloves at home
bigcranky
07-25-2018, 17:55
Thanks BC!!! I plan on taking the puffy, and my 30* bag. going to leave the thermals and gloves at home
I guess I need to add that I wore merino wool for sleeping, 150-wt long johns and long sleeve top. I didn't bring gloves in July, but I would in September. I honestly can't recall if I brought a beanie, might have just used the puffy hood, need to look at photos or find my gear list. But I'd take a fleece beanie in Sept :)
EDIT: Yup, I had the beanie, and wore it during the day up north. https://miles2go.blog/photo-gallery/#jp-carousel-38
fastfoxengineering
07-25-2018, 20:27
It doesn't matter what time of the year in Vermont, if you spend some time sitting around in camp at night, you'll use the puffy.
Lots of hiking days tend to get cut short on the LT due to copious amounts of rain.
In lots of wet weather, more layers are better.
After 5 days of straight rain. Everything is damp and cold, including your thermals.
If I was to hike the LT again...
I'd have a long sleeve t shirt, fleece, windshirt, and puffy in mypack. Paired with a 20* or 40* quilt depending on the time of year.
That's my advice for a typical LT end to ender. If your one of those people hiking it in two weeks or less I wouldn't think you'd be asking for advice
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Gambit McCrae
07-26-2018, 08:23
That's my advice for a typical LT end to ender. If your one of those people hiking it in two weeks or less I wouldn't think you'd be asking for advice
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Well...Because I have never been to Vermont before.
As well I am only walking the LT for as long as it overlaps with the AT. :-?
As well, I am not walking 273 miles in 2 weeks I am planning on 202 miles but be prepared for 235 if I have time.
I am from Tennessee, September for us means record high temps for the year, 4 years ago here it was over 100 deg in September, up in Mass 2 years ago it was 90+ degreees for the 4 days I was there hiking. So that is why I ask the questions, to be prepared, not to not ask and look like a know it all, I already do that enough :datz
fastfoxengineering
07-27-2018, 14:25
Well...Because I have never been to Vermont before.
As well I am only walking the LT for as long as it overlaps with the AT. :-?
As well, I am not walking 273 miles in 2 weeks I am planning on 202 miles but be prepared for 235 if I have time.
I am from Tennessee, September for us means record high temps for the year, 4 years ago here it was over 100 deg in September, up in Mass 2 years ago it was 90+ degreees for the 4 days I was there hiking. So that is why I ask the questions, to be prepared, not to not ask and look like a know it all, I already do that enough :datzI apologize if I came off as harsh.
The LT is a cold and wet weather trail year round. weeks of high heat and humidity happen. But it's always chilly at elevation in Vermont.
It's one of those hikes where better to be over prepared than under.
I wish you the best and say bring the extra layer (s).
Also, I know you didn't ask. But camp shoes are an excellent luxury on in Vermud!
Constant wet feet is the norm
Enjoy your hike
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Just Bill
07-27-2018, 15:28
Lookit you kids making nice. :D
fastfoxengineering
07-27-2018, 15:37
Lookit you kids making nice. :DThe AT gave my soul back...I'll be in Vermont in two days time
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Just Bill
07-27-2018, 15:40
The AT gave my soul back...I'll be in Vermont in two days time
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Excellent... though a bit too fast ;)
With Game of Thrones being the new Lord of the Rings...
Are you 'kissed by fire' or did you manage to dodge a new trail name?
fastfoxengineering
07-27-2018, 15:53
Excellent... though a bit too fast ;)
With Game of Thrones being the new Lord of the Rings...
Are you 'kissed by fire' or did you manage to dodge a new trail name?They call me YOTI out here.
Allthough... I'm currently camping with another blessed red head who got the name.. gingerballz
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Just Bill
07-27-2018, 15:55
Dunno that one (YOTI)... but you enjoy your time up north with the freefolk.