View Full Version : sitting on bear cans
A lot of folks mention how convenient it is to have a bear can to sit on. I presume you only do that 100 feet or more from your camp, right? Where you're cooking, since that's where the can is supposed to be. .....?
Gambit McCrae
07-17-2018, 08:49
I would assume that folks have their bear can with them until time to go to bed, and then put it 100 from camp...And they are not sitting on it in their sleep lol
nsherry61
07-17-2018, 08:52
No. Not any more than I carry it 100 ft from where I'm walking.
By and large, bears are looking for an easy unguarded meal. So they snoop where there is scent of food and not active people to scare them off. When I am awake and sitting on my food it's not a problem. When I am asleep on my food, it is generally not a problem, but on the rare occasion that sleeping on my food might not be enough deterrent, the cost is so catastrophic as to not risk it while sleeping. . . except when the risk is already super low, and sleeping on your food moves the likelihood of a problem to so near zero that some of us are willing to take that risk.
Five Tango
07-17-2018, 11:27
I recently bot the aluminum liner for my Usack S29 All White bear bag.By placing my sit pad on top it serves as a usable stool for me but I weigh just under 150lbs.I always have an odor blocking bag like a Lok Sak or Base Camp bag inside the Ursack.It sleeps far enough away from my hammock so as not to disturb me too much should a creature find it.Putting a piece of reflective tape on it is a real plus for locating it in the early mornings too.
When it comes to cooking the question I have is this-just how much odor signature is really given off and airborne when all you do is reconstitute rice or potatoes or some MH or Packet Gourmet type meal?I would think its negligible compared to actually cooking or frying something.Any data out there?Personally,I would want to be a whole lot further away than 100 ft from where bacon was fried etc. but maybe that's just me.....
DuneElliot
07-17-2018, 12:07
Why would you not sit on it in camp? You're only putting it 100ft or more away from camp when you sleep as that is when it is not protected and you want to keep any inquisitive bears away from you while unconscious. I, too, "cook" in camp with my freezer bag meals. And apparently they don't smell much as the bear who DID wander 100 yards away from camp didn't even look in my direction after he came crashing down the creek (I wasn't going to hang food but did after that).
Berserker
07-17-2018, 12:43
A lot of folks mention how convenient it is to have a bear can to sit on. I presume you only do that 100 feet or more from your camp, right? Where you're cooking, since that's where the can is supposed to be. .....?
The can is with me until I go to sleep. So it's either in my pack, or in camp where I use it as a chair. In camp I usually keep the lid on and locked when not actively accessing it for food. When I get ready to turn in for the night I walk a little ways from camp and set it somewhere...usually less than 100' away and often in some weeds or something that will partially conceal it. Most of the time I'm camped near a shelter (where people have their food in the shelter) and/or where there are other people that have food in their tent. So, as long as it's not under my vestibule or right next to the tent that's good enough as far as I'm concerned.
DuneElliot
07-17-2018, 13:43
The can is with me until I go to sleep. So it's either in my pack, or in camp where I use it as a chair. In camp I usually keep the lid on and locked when not actively accessing it for food. When I get ready to turn in for the night I walk a little ways from camp and set it somewhere...usually less than 100' away and often in some weeds or something that will partially conceal it. Most of the time I'm camped near a shelter (where people have their food in the shelter) and/or where there are other people that have food in their tent. So, as long as it's not under my vestibule or right next to the tent that's good enough as far as I'm concerned.
Reminds me of the meme: You don't have to be able to run fast, just faster than the others you hike with.
Brother Jeff failed to mention where he might be sitting on his bear can.
Suffice to say that a perfect location among rocks or small trees that prevents Br’er Bear from playing kick the can with your groceries, Go for it!
The 100’ is a Red Herring.
Just go hiking!
Wayne
MuddyWaters
07-17-2018, 20:33
Your can should be close you, where you can defend it.
It IS NOT bear proof.
It is resistant
If your not willing to holler and throw rocks at black bear trying to get your food.......just stay home.
P.s. even if you put can 200' away ,mr bear stll knows EXACTLY where you are. You are not any safer.
Now a grizz.......put your food 1/4 mile away
Your can should be close you, where you can defend it.
Uh huh. Not me, bub! :)
thanks y'all. got it. I'll go with the consensus, and stash it at bedtime.
When it comes to cooking the question I have is this-just how much odor signature is really given off and airborne when all you do is reconstitute rice or potatoes or some MH or Packet Gourmet type meal?I would think its negligible compared to actually cooking or frying something.Any data out there?Personally,I would want to be a whole lot further away than 100 ft from where bacon was fried etc. but maybe that's just me.....
I started a thread about that subject not too long ago. Most folks seemed to agree with your thinking.
What about granola bars? I usually have a couple of those in my pants pocket. Bears might be able to smell those a little better than a mountain house, though. I don't know.
Berserker
07-18-2018, 11:59
Your can should be close you, where you can defend it.
It IS NOT bear proof.
It is resistant
If your not willing to holler and throw rocks at black bear trying to get your food.......just stay home.
P.s. even if you put can 200' away ,mr bear stll knows EXACTLY where you are. You are not any safer.
Now a grizz.......put your food 1/4 mile away
Agreed. All my knowledge and small amount of personal experience with black bears has proven that one should fight back against an aggressive black bear. So yeah, keeping the food closer makes more sense.
Don't have any experience with grizzly bears, and not planning to get much either...those things honestly freak me out a bit. It didn't help that I just recently watched The Revenant, and there's a long graphic bear attack scene in there that's both amazing from a cinematic perspective and just down right nasty when you put yourself in the position of the character in movie.
Muddy Waters over exaggerates Grizz habitat.
Maybe that’s a good thing if it reduces the number of visitors.
Have fun Y’all!
Wayne
DuneElliot
07-18-2018, 12:15
Agreed. All my knowledge and small amount of personal experience with black bears has proven that one should fight back against an aggressive black bear. So yeah, keeping the food closer makes more sense.
Don't have any experience with grizzly bears, and not planning to get much either...those things honestly freak me out a bit. It didn't help that I just recently watched The Revenant, and there's a long graphic bear attack scene in there that's both amazing from a cinematic perspective and just down right nasty when you put yourself in the position of the character in movie.
Then don't read about the guy in MT who got attacked TWICE in under an hour by the same mama bear and lived. It was graphic and terrifying.
BTW...the true story The Revenant was based on actually happened in summer in South Dakota
Animal deaths in the USA: Grizz doesn’t even register on the radar.
https://www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-journals/number-of-people-killed-by-animals-each-year-in-the-us-remains-unchanged
Get out there and have fun Y’all!
Wayne
Five Tango
07-19-2018, 09:15
Then don't read about the guy in MT who got attacked TWICE in under an hour by the same mama bear and lived. It was graphic and terrifying.
BTW...the true story The Revenant was based on actually happened in summer in South Dakota
I saw the documentary about the twice attacked guy on YouTube.If my memory serves me well,I think he was an experienced forester.He was armed with both Bear Spray and a large caliber pistol.I think he did get off one blast of the gas before mama bear was on him.On the second attack he went for his pistol which had been lost in attack number one unbeknownst to him.Sorry if my recollection is fuzzy but it was one of those videos you don't want to watch twice.He did say the short blast of gas was eventually helpful in breaking up the first attack I think.
DuneElliot
07-19-2018, 10:14
I saw the documentary about the twice attacked guy on YouTube.If my memory serves me well,I think he was an experienced forester.He was armed with both Bear Spray and a large caliber pistol.I think he did get off one blast of the gas before mama bear was on him.On the second attack he went for his pistol which had been lost in attack number one unbeknownst to him.Sorry if my recollection is fuzzy but it was one of those videos you don't want to watch twice.He did say the short blast of gas was eventually helpful in breaking up the first attack I think.
That would be it. It was definitely gruesome and amazing that he survived not one but both attacks. He was well-prepared and experienced but some mama bears are more protective than others...like the one of a guy walking backwards and filming as a mama Griz and her two cubs just keep walking towards him. You can even hear him exasperated that they keep following and don't leave the trail. Mama didn't seem too concerned but I can't imagine how scary it was for the guy on the trail...he did everything right though.
Five Tango
07-19-2018, 13:06
Yep,saw that one too.I was thinking the whole time ,"Dude,why can't you exit the trail downhill and let them go by?"
DuneElliot
07-19-2018, 13:34
Yep,saw that one too.I was thinking the whole time ,"Dude,why can't you exit the trail downhill and let them go by?"
Kinda tough to do going backwards...you aren't ever supposed to turn your back on a bear, and probably don't want to get below them either. What if the cubs had still followed out of curiosity? Then the dude would really have no way to go...can't keep going backwards like that. And any noise or excess movement might have triggered the mama's more aggressive response. She looked pretty chilled in the video so I'm guessing the guy didn't want to up the ante at all.
Five Tango
07-20-2018, 10:01
Kinda tough to do going backwards...you aren't ever supposed to turn your back on a bear, and probably don't want to get below them either. What if the cubs had still followed out of curiosity? Then the dude would really have no way to go...can't keep going backwards like that. And any noise or excess movement might have triggered the mama's more aggressive response. She looked pretty chilled in the video so I'm guessing the guy didn't want to up the ante at all.
Good point.Is it just me or did he seem more intent on photography or survival? I also note he passed by either one or two intersections on the trail-no way to know if they would have continued to follow or not.Mama bear seemed pretty calm but that can change in an instant of course.Here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d5vENjxCyg
DuneElliot
07-20-2018, 10:36
Good point.Is it just me or did he seem more intent on photography or survival? I also note he passed by either one or two intersections on the trail-no way to know if they would have continued to follow or not.Mama bear seemed pretty calm but that can change in an instant of course.Here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d5vENjxCyg
I think his instinct was to head back to the TH and a more populated area. It would have been mine too. I think he just continued to film because, well, at that point why not. He couldn't have done any thing more to ensure his survival; he was calm, walking slowly backwards, talking low, no sudden movement. Those side trails might have been a possibility, but he still might have been followed and then would have been further from people if something went wrong. I feel, from my own point of view, that he did everything right that he could have. He had to have a LOT of adrenaline dumping in his system at that point and people don't think clearly when that happens...I think he did great for the situation he was in.
Five Tango
07-20-2018, 13:08
Yep,some of us may have dumped more than a little adrenaline in that encounter!:D
A lot of folks mention how convenient it is to have a bear can to sit on. I presume you only do that 100 feet or more from your camp, right? Where you're cooking, since that's where the can is supposed to be. .....?
Posted the other current bear can thread.
Studying how people behave in Real Bear Country: Glacier and Yellowstone National Parks for future trips.
Everything said in this thread is 180 degrees opposite to what is practiced in those parks.
The Park Service campsites have a kitchen area with fire grate, seating and a bear pole. Food stays in the kitchen area. Period.
Shelters and sleeping gear are carried to the designated sleeping area some distance from the kitchen area where the food is kept.
People hang their packs with all food, smellables and trash from the bear poles in the kitchen area. These practices are shown in several videos online. It’s not heresay.
That makes a 110% more sense than this East & West Coast centered discussion.
It makes sense to me.
Wayne
DuneElliot
07-20-2018, 18:49
Posted the other current bear can thread.
There's also a lot of difference in between what is recommended and what you should be doing in black bear vs Griz country. Most of the advice here is for black bear country.
MuddyWaters
07-20-2018, 19:02
There's also a lot of difference in between what is recommended and what you should be doing in black bear vs Griz country. Most of the advice here is for black bear country.
Griz just have a short fuse. You dont want to bump into one in your campsite ....
There's also a lot of difference in between what is recommended and what you should be doing in black bear vs Griz country. Most of the advice here is for black bear country.
Yellowstone & Glacier are Black and Grizzly bear country.
The idea is to keep all of the food smells, etc. in a single location and all of the sleeping separate.
What many are advocating here is cooking, eating and sleeping in the same place while moving the can of food to another location. Not the best idea.
Wayne
DuneElliot
07-20-2018, 21:48
Yellowstone & Glacier are Black and Grizzly bear country.
The idea is to keep all of the food smells, etc. in a single location and all of the sleeping separate.
What many are advocating here is cooking, eating and sleeping in the same place while moving the can of food to another location. Not the best idea.
Wayne
I agree with you on that one...but I don't want any of that anywhere near me in grizzly country, but am less worried about it in black bear country.
I agree with you on that one...but I don't want any of that anywhere near me in grizzly country, but am less worried about it in black bear country.
Perhaps I wasn’t clear. The Kitchen and Sleeping areas in the National Park campsites are seperated by a practical distance. Yellowstone recommends 100 yards.
https://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/upload/bctrip-planner_2018.pdf
Wayne
DuneElliot
07-20-2018, 22:46
No, I completely got what you said.
Okay. Did you look at the illustration on page 2 of the Yellowstone document on the other end of the link?
What are you objecting to?
Wayne
I find sitting on the ground with my back against a log, boulder, tree, to be far more comfortable than perching on a bear can. I started carrying them in '97 in the Sierra Nevada. Only sat on them a few times and haven't bothered in more than 10 years. They don't look any more comfortable today then they did then. Though I suppose if you are just doing so while leaning over your stove while you cook, that might be convenient, but given I only boil water to pour into a freezer bag or mountain house bag, I don't need to do that.
That said, I've never seen anyone actually put their bear can 100ft away. Leaving it overnight 20-50ft seems to be the norm from what I've seen. Given when we bear bagged, we wanted the food hanging close enough so you would notice it was being messed with so you could scare away the animal messing with it, I wonder why you'd want a bear can even farther away. Is it so you can sleep more soundly since you don't hear the bear knocking it around?
Position of bear can at breakfast (JMT in the fall, north of Mather Pass).
43236
Captain Blue
07-22-2018, 20:14
Suffice to say that a perfect location among rocks or small trees that prevents Br’er Bear from playing kick the can with your groceries, Go for it!
Bad advice. Don't give the bear any mechanical advantage by wedging your bear canister between trees or rocks. You are only helping the bear if you do. As it was previously stated, bear canisters are bear resistant and not bear proof. Put the can out in the open where the bear can swat it, roll it, sit on it, chew on it, etc and the bear will eventually get frustrated and move on. If you wedge it somewhere the bear can pry or bite off the lid easier.
It *is* a good idea to out your cook pot or other noisy item on top of your bear canister. If it gets disturbed the noise may scare the bear away and/or alert you to fact that something is happening.
Berserker
07-23-2018, 13:32
The Kitchen and Sleeping areas in the National Park campsites are seperated by a practical distance. Yellowstone recommends 100 yards.
https://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/upload/bctrip-planner_2018.pdf
Wayne
I saw your posts on this in the other thread and this one, and had a comment. While I don't disagree with the example you have brought up of what is done in Glacier/Yellowstone, that won't currently work along the AT.
The issue along most of the AT is a matter of "infrastructure" for lack of a better term. As everyone on here knows most of the forest along the AT has a very thick understory from spring though the fall, so it's not easy to just meander off into the woods in any direction especially to do an activity like cooking. Also, most shelter areas along the AT are not set up with separate cooking areas, and are set up for cooking/eating at the shelter with no other adjacent area for this activity. So the only way to practically cook in a separate area from a campsite or shelter would be to either walk down the AT or blue blaze side trail and cook somewhere along the side the trail.
To implement what you are suggesting would require clearing another area near shelters and campsites, and designate it a cooking area. A good example of this along the AT is the Liberty Springs campsite in the Whites. This area has several tent platforms, and a separate cooking area.
The original poster is currently on the TRT. Different situation.
Unfortunately WhiteBlaze is AT centric. Frankly, bear cans are an anomaly for the time being on the AT.
As for the occasional problem bear along the AT, anecdotal evidence suggests that inconsiderate non hiking community people are probably to blame for the food the bears find. Aided by the proximity of roads to shelters and campgrounds.
Different techniques for different places.
Wayne
MuddyWaters
07-23-2018, 17:18
Bad advice. Don't give the bear any mechanical advantage by wedging your bear canister between trees or rocks. You are only helping the bear if you do. As it was previously stated, bear canisters are bear resistant and not bear proof. Put the can out in the open where the bear can swat it, roll it, sit on it, chew on it, etc and the bear will eventually get frustrated and move on. If you wedge it somewhere the bear can pry or bite off the lid easier.
It *is* a good idea to out your cook pot or other noisy item on top of your bear canister. If it gets disturbed the noise may scare the bear away and/or alert you to fact that something is happening.
If you lucky enough to camp where it wont roll downhill into river or off cliff.
Unfortunately, many places in sierra are like that. So you most certainly do place it where it wont easily roll away. Next to fallen tree, in circle of rocks, in bushes.
But....it should be about 20' from you, with rocks stacked on top to make noise if disturbed, and you should have a supply of baseball sized throwing rocks handy.
I've heard second hand that Yosemite rangers recommend keeping your bear can close by so you can run the bear off should it attempt to mess with your food. Thoughts?
MuddyWaters
07-27-2018, 13:50
I've heard second hand that Yosemite rangers recommend keeping your bear can close by so you can run the bear off should it attempt to mess with your food. Thoughts?
Ive heard that first-hand
And firmly ascribe to it
Black bears generally dont want a fight
I recall that a ranger at philmont scout ranch once rescued a goat from a bears jaws by punching the bear in the face. Bear ran off.
saltysack
08-03-2018, 07:54
Ive heard that first-hand
And firmly ascribe to it
Black bears generally dont want a fight
I recall that a ranger at philmont scout ranch once rescued a goat from a bears jaws by punching the bear in the face. Bear ran off.
Sounds like a bar room story!!! I’ve heard some funny sh$! but that takes the cake...[emoji23]🥃
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