View Full Version : Tent durability
I've owned a MSR Hubba Hubba NX for 4 years and use it no more than 5 days each year. When not in use, I keep the tent in a conditioned environment (my house) and have been careful to be sure it's dry before storing it. This year I noticed a thin layer of waterproofing (I guess) is flaking and delaminating from the inside of the tent. leaving a sticky surface. It doesn't appear to affect the waterproffing qualities of the tent but it's odd to me that the tent appears to be disintegrating after so little use. Anyone else have this experience with MSR or other manufacturers?
Gambit McCrae
07-24-2018, 10:24
Delamination is common after 4+ years. If it is not effecting the waterproofness I would just setup and vacuum out the tent before use, problem with delamination is that it doesn't stop flaking once it starts. And My gut assumption would be that it IS INDEED going to effect the waterproofness of the tent.
HooKooDooKu
07-24-2018, 11:08
I would agree that 4 years sounds pretty soon to start seeing delamination.
My 1st tent, a Kelty Vortex took 10 to 15 years before I started seeing issues... starting with the tent floor seam.
My Big Agnes Lynx Pass and Kelty Gunnisson 3.2 are currently 7 years old (or more) and I haven't noticed any issues.
Unfortunately, from what I can see from MSR's website, their warranty is for 3 years.
Starchild
07-24-2018, 11:37
I do feel it will effect water infiltration. You might consider contacting MSR, they are very into customer service especially when there is a defect. Also if you bought it from REI, though their satisfaction guarantee is 1 year, their policy for defects is at their discretion.
If you do plan to keep it I'd consider additional waterproofing sprays.
this was also a problem with the "regular" hubba hubbas....
i bought mine in 2009 and it started to peel...
MSR had already known this was happening through other customers having same problem..
i contacted them and then sent me a new fly......
Gambit McCrae
07-24-2018, 12:09
I should have added'
If you mail them the tent they will more then likely replace it and send you a new one. Write a nice polite letter and say "thanks in advance"
Works for me pretty much every time. Now if I feel that I have USED the product to the end of its life like my Henry Shires TT then I would not do this, but if I got 20 nights use in 4 years out of it? It would be going back for sure.
Tipi Walter
07-24-2018, 12:18
I consider tents to be disposable items like boots or socks---Upgrade when needed because tents never improve with age.
T.S.Kobzol
07-24-2018, 13:35
You won't see any delamination with cuben fiber although something else will probably fail instead :-)
I consider tents to be disposable items like boots or socks---Upgrade when needed because tents never improve with age.
Starchild
07-24-2018, 14:12
You won't see any delamination with cuben fiber although something else will probably fail instead :-)
You won't? I have seen some, though minor and repaired stress delamination issues with CF, and expect that not to get better with time.
T.S.Kobzol
07-24-2018, 14:14
"stress delamination" ? - You mean cuben's propensity to wear out in folds ? I wouldn't call it delamination although I'm no expert on the jargon
Agreed. That's a different issue entirely. As far as I know, cuben doesn't have (or need) any separate coating because the fabric is waterproof by nature.
cmoulder
07-25-2018, 06:41
"stress delamination" ? - You mean cuben's propensity to wear out in folds ? I wouldn't call it delamination although I'm no expert on the jargon
I'd call it abrasion.
Even then, I'd have to question how it occurs. Abrasion is caused by repeated rubbing in the same area, which suggests to me that an item is not being stowed properly. Perhaps forcing it into and out of a stuff sack that is too small? IMO a generously-sized silnylon stuff sack is, ironically, ideal for DCF.
Us tent buyers, we drive this industry. They noticed that we will pay much more and buy more for certain qualities like "light weight". Durability was sacrificed to the ultralight gods long ago. If they design for durability, it will weigh more and we won't buy it. The first question we always ask is, what is the weight? Cost, performance, care requirements, durability all come later.
cmoulder
07-25-2018, 08:52
Us tent buyers, we drive this industry. They noticed that we will pay much more and buy more for certain qualities like "light weight". Durability was sacrificed to the ultralight gods long ago. If they design for durability, it will weigh more and we won't buy it. The first question we always ask is, what is the weight? Cost, performance, care requirements, durability all come later.
Durability is also highly subjective and user-dependent. There are people who can destroy the sturdiest item in 5 minutes flat and those who manage to get excellent performance from the most delicate stuff for many years.
Tipi Walter
07-25-2018, 09:14
Us tent buyers, we drive this industry. They noticed that we will pay much more and buy more for certain qualities like "light weight". Durability was sacrificed to the ultralight gods long ago. If they design for durability, it will weigh more and we won't buy it. The first question we always ask is, what is the weight? Cost, performance, care requirements, durability all come later.
Good post. In my opinion, weight is the last consideration when it comes to a tent. At the top of the list is robust toughness, waterproofness from the top down and the bottom up, perfect in the fourth season but also able to handle summer thunderstorms with high winds, and finally longevity---oh and ample interior square footage. But I'm weird this way---when it comes to my backpacking shelter.
trailmercury
07-25-2018, 09:15
Light, durable, inexpensive
Pick two...Backpacking items that fit all three are exceedingly rare
Tipi Walter
07-25-2018, 09:17
Heavy, durable, expensive, big. Pick four.
Heavy, durable, expensive, big. Pick four.
can't do it - your forum name is already taken
tent makers do not make there own fabric, and different batches of fabric will delaminate faster / slower
in the end, like others have said, this is a warranty / customer service issue - I sent back an outdoor research bivy for delimitation, that they replaced - long lead time so I bought another OR model, probably a win win
MuddyWaters
07-25-2018, 12:40
Some lasts longer than others.
But gear, all if it, is a consumeable item
It doesnt last forever, even without use.
It degrades. Its superceded by new designs and materials, etc. By the time its 10-15 yrs old, its not worth much.
No, 4 yrs is too soon to delaminate. Ask for replacement, all they can say is no. Else throw it away.
But my point is, gear is made to be used. Eventually it becomes worth pennies on dollar if you dont anyway. How many hike with used 90s era gear they could buy cheap on fleabay? No one, theres no market for it, even though lots for sale usually. Ive got a coiple 10year old tents in great condition. Ill prob give to scouts. Not worth anything to sell
Tipi Walter
07-25-2018, 13:20
No, 4 yrs is too soon to delaminate. Ask for replacement, all they can say is no. Else throw it away.
Yes, agree. 4 years is way too early for delamination, even WITH 150+ nights out a year. My tents get such mileage and go strong for at least 10 years. But upgrading never hurts with an old tent---new is always better.
There's a tiny handful of people who want old vintage tents, the North Face Morning Glory comes to mind. They'll pay almost anything to get such a tent. Collector's items. Actual field use? I'd be reluctant to take such a museum piece out for long.
Wise Old Owl
07-25-2018, 21:50
Some lasts longer than others.
But gear, all if it, is a consumeable item
It doesnt last forever, even without use.
It degrades. Its superceded by new designs and materials, etc. By the time its 10-15 yrs old, its not worth much.
No, 4 yrs is too soon to delaminate. Ask for replacement, all they can say is no. Else throw it away.
But my point is, gear is made to be used. Eventually it becomes worth pennies on dollar if you don't anyway. How many hike with used 90s era gear they could buy cheap on fleabay? No one, theres no market for it, even though lots for sale usually. Ive got a couple 10year old tents in great condition. Ill prob give to scouts. Not worth anything to sell
Part of the issue here is de-lamination may be caused by sun damage. I too have tents that are 20 years old that are still usable and a few from 8 years ago I am going to toss out. I think we are on the same idea. If you don't understand this post grab a child or tent structure from a over the counter source and pitch it in the back yard in direct sun. By Oct it will be worthless form all the solar pinholes in the fabric.
T.S.Kobzol
07-25-2018, 21:57
Correct. 90 continuous days out of shade, outside in the sun and you can throw that new Fly Creek out.
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Tipi Walter
07-25-2018, 23:20
I'm familiar with UV tent death---you know things are bad when you zip up the tent fly vestibule and the fabric separates along a line parallel to the zipper. Or your dog panics and bursts thru the sun-rotted fabric. Or you're using yards of duct tape to keep the tent together and in one piece. The first happened on a North Face Westwind tent and the other happened on a Cabelas Xtreme weather tent. I always dig my thumb into a tent fly before a trip just to see . . . the condition of my condition. It's a nasty test as failure involves a complete rethink and gear-up.
Then again, there are tents out there which are more robust in continuous or oft-repeated exposure to direct sunlight. Some brands are much better than others. You just have to find them.
I'm always wondering why most tent flys nowadays are made from Nylon? Polyamide has a hard time to stand UV and needs special treatment for this (and still will not last long, exposed to the sun), while Polyester would be pretty much UV resistant by itself. Plus, a Polyester fly would not sag in the rain.
The MSR I had did this too. It certainly did not have the use to justify peeling at 3 years of age. MSR sent me another fly and it did not have side vents as part of the redesign, leadin to more condensation. I gave up on it. FWIW, I've had a Hilleberg Allak for 10 years, used it 80+ nights a year and it is still as waterproof as the day I got it. It's my go-to when bad weather is expected.
Tipi Walter
07-26-2018, 13:10
The MSR I had did this too. It certainly did not have the use to justify peeling at 3 years of age. MSR sent me another fly and it did not have side vents as part of the redesign, leadin to more condensation. I gave up on it. FWIW, I've had a Hilleberg Allak for 10 years, used it 80+ nights a year and it is still as waterproof as the day I got it. It's my go-to when bad weather is expected.
You said it and not me. I didn't want to mention Hilleberg in my post of "some brands are better than others"---continually beating a dead horse---but you're right---Hillie's Kerlon stuff is great and like you said it's still waterproof---and while I've seen it fade it never gets the UV pinholes mentioned in other posts.
To OP: The waterproofing is almost certainly not as good as it used to be wherever the flaking is going on. You did not mention if you fold and roll vs stuffing the tent. I favor stuffing as the creases are not made repetitively in the same locations as they are with fold and roll.
T.S.Kobzol
07-26-2018, 13:56
I got a Hillsboro Keron and also one Fjallraven Abisko Viewvamong others but nomatter what tent I choose for the trip I still try not to pitch it totally exposed and I always try to pitch it late in a day when the sun is low and pack it as early in the morning as possible. It all depends on the location or nature of the trip...
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Tipi Walter
07-26-2018, 14:30
I got a Hillsboro Keron and also one Fjallraven Abisko Viewvamong others but nomatter what tent I choose for the trip I still try not to pitch it totally exposed and I always try to pitch it late in a day when the sun is low and pack it as early in the morning as possible. It all depends on the location or nature of the trip...
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I generally follow this practice too---if I get to an exposed camp early I wait for the sun to set before putting up the tent. But I also don't fret over it as much as I used to---just leave the beast up and forget about it. The only problem with this is that direct sunlight usually makes the tent an oven.
43284
Here's the new Keron tent from 10 years ago---notice the nice green color.
43285
Here's the same tent today---a little more faded but still going strong.
T.S.Kobzol
07-26-2018, 16:49
Here is mine [emoji106]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180726/6d5fca56a45f79df796d113ed0b12577.jpg
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Tipi Walter
07-26-2018, 20:47
Here is mine [emoji106]
Nifty! Looks like we belong to the exclusive Keron member's only club.
Btw, is that a mandolin case on the rock??
T.S.Kobzol
07-27-2018, 03:48
That is my ukulele. [emoji846]
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You know, I hadn't every really considered tents having a "shelf life" before... I bought mine 5 years ago and she's still going strong. It's a cheap-ish and heavy tent by AT standards (Alps Mountaineering Chaos 2, 5+ pounds!) but man, have I been surprised by this tent. I'll be sad when it starts to crumble.
Time Zone
07-30-2018, 11:30
You know, I hadn't every really considered tents having a "shelf life" before... I'll be sad when it starts to crumble.
Yes, but getting rid of the funky smell that may accompany delamination of the PU coating, that may soften the blow. Plus, it gives you an excuse to get a new and cool replacement.