Light weight water system question

[TwoRoads]

I have reduced the weight of my pack from 37 pounds down to 22 pounds, and, as part of that, I am going stoveless. For my water system, I am thinking about going with a Gatorade bottle and life straw, but I am wondering if any of you have any experience with the life straw as your main water filter. I also have both a Sawyer and a Sawyer Mini, but the main reason I want to go with the life straw, besides weight, is ease of back flush. With a Sawyer, I will have to have clean water to back flush, and hence the idea of going with the life straw solution, which back flushes just by blowing through it. Anyone have helpful experience/suggestions?

[DuneElliot]

I think the convenience of not having to back flush with water on the Life Straw is counter-balanced but the inconvenience of how clunky it is to use to drink out of a bottle and having to use it all the time vs only having to back flush every couple of weeks with the Sawyer (if that).

[soumodeler]

I have never used one personally, but having seen people using the Lifestraw, I agree it seems clunky. I rarely have to backflush my Squeeze on trail.

One thing to note, the Lifestraw seems to be designed more for emergency use rather than primary use. It only has a 1000 liter lifespan, while the Squeeze is a 1 million gallon.

[Feral Bill]

Aqua Mira drops work for me.

[HooKooDooKu]

If you're trying to get light weight, seems like there are numerous things that are lighter than a Gatorade bottle... they seem pretty thick compared to a SmartWater bottle. Of course the benefit of the SmartWater and the Sawyer Mini is that the Mini can be screwed directly onto the SmartWater bottle and you can drink directly from the bottle thru the Mini (though for better flow, you might want to consider the original Sawyer Squeeze for that).

If you prefer to filter your water into a bottle and then drink from the bottle (something you'll likely want to do if you're adding anything to the water to flavor it), I enjoy using Bai water bottles. They are about on part with SmartWater bottles on thickness, but they have a wider mouth to make adding drink mixes easier like the wider mouth of the Gatorade bottle. And as a plus... if you carry back flush syringe that comes with Sawyer, the mouth of the Bai works perfectly with them.

[TwoRoads]

Thanks, everyone, for your helpful comments. After considering your different ideas, I've looked into some other option (still trying to achieve the balance of light weight and convenience) and modified my system.

I will be using my Sawyer Squeeze filter, fitted with a SP150 coupling and two Smart water bottles. One bottle will be for stream water with the filter screwed onto its top; then on the other end of the filter, a clean water (Smart) bottle attached via the SP150. This will enable me to fill the dirty water bottle, attach all parts, and carry it on the side of my backpack inverted so that the water gravity feeds into my clean water filter. It also eliminates the need to carry the backflow syringe. I saw this hack described; the only thing I'm not sure about is whether it will tend to air-lock and stop the filtering operation. But I figure on experimenting to try and make it work.

Feel free to comment.

[lonehiker]

Thanks, everyone, for your helpful comments. After considering your different ideas, I've looked into some other option (still trying to achieve the balance of light weight and convenience) and modified my system.

I will be using my Sawyer Squeeze filter, fitted with a SP150 coupling and two Smart water bottles. One bottle will be for stream water with the filter screwed onto its top; then on the other end of the filter, a clean water (Smart) bottle attached via the SP150. This will enable me to fill the dirty water bottle, attach all parts, and carry it on the side of my backpack inverted so that the water gravity feeds into my clean water filter. It also eliminates the need to carry the backflow syringe. I saw this hack described; the only thing I'm not sure about is whether it will tend to air-lock and stop the filtering operation. But I figure on experimenting to try and make it work.

Feel free to comment.

Have you tried this gravity set-up? With the dirty water being a hard bottle I'm wondering if it will gravity feed as would a collapsible bladder?

[Odd Man Out]

Same thought
You need an air outlet on your receiver bottle unless ir is a collapsible bladder. I'm partial to the Gatorade bottles as they have a wide mouth and the grooves in the bottles allows me to fasten them to pack straps with bungees.

[HooKooDooKu]

If light-weight is going to be your main focus, I would suggest filling a Smart Water bottle with dirty water and drinking strait from the bottle thru a Sawyer Squeeze. It has enough flow rate compared to the mini to do this... this is a system I've seen several people on he trails (or YouTube) using.

If gravity filtering for convenience is going to be your main focus, I would suggest double bladders with Sawyer Mini.

Here's some weights (some are estimates and not from direct specs)
1.0L Smart Water Bottles - 1.3oz
900ml Evernew Water Carry - 1.0oz
2000ml Evernew Water Carry - 1.5oz
1.0L Platpus Soft Bottle - 1.2oz
2.0L Platypus Bottle - 1.3oz
Platypus Hoser Barb cap - 0.5oz
Sweetwater Hose (one of the two 32" hoses in a replacement set) - 1.1oz
Sawyer Coupler - 0.3oz
Sawyer Mini - 2.0oz
Sawyer Squeeze - 3.0oz

So a minimalist Sawyer system would be two Smart Water Bottles, a Sawyer coupler, and a Sawyer Squeeze.
Total weight: 6.1oz
Total Capacity: 2L
Upgrade with a 3rd Bottle to 3L capacity for 7.4oz


A minimalist gravity feed system would be one Smart Water bottle, 900ml Evernew bladder, tubing and barb fitting, 1.0L Platypus, Sawyer coupler and a Sawyer Mini.
Total Weight: 7.4oz
Total Capacity: 2.9L
Upgrade both bladders to 2L becomes 5L capacity for 8.0oz


So after doing this analysis, I'm quite happy with my 5L gravity feed bladder system.

(BTW, the only way I can find to get the Platypus cap with barb fitting is to buy the Platypus hoser, and then throw everything away but the barb fitting and cap. The Hose is too thick and the Platypus 'Bottle' is lighter than the 'Hoser').

BTW2: Testing my gravity feed system with Mini shows a fresh filter can handle 2L in 4 minutes.

[TwoRoads]

So here's what I've settled on at this point. One Smart Water bottle for dirty water. A Sawyer Squeeze filter (with a garden hose washer/filter in the dirty end of the filter). For the other end of the filter (for purposes of backwash, I have the SP150 coupler with a clean Smart Water bottle). I've decided not to worry about gravity feed (no, it will not gravity feed with two hard plastic bottles). This way, I can dip water out of the creek without fighting with a bladder. Screw on the filter and drink. When I need to backwash, filter water into the clean water bottle, then attach the SP150 coupler and the clean water bottle and backwash. I like this better than carrying the Sawyer syringe, because it allows me to apply more pressure on the backwash without bursting the syringe (that did happen to me one time). It's not perfect, but it's light weight and convenient. I'll keep a bladder in mind if I want to tweak the system, but so far, I think I'll like it. I'll know more when I field test it on an actual trip.

[Analog_Kidd]

I have been using the Cnoc Vecto https://cnocoutdoors.com/products/vecto-water-container for my dirty water container. It has a wide mouth at one end that can easily scoop water, and a threaded end to connect the filter. Since it collapses, it can be used by squeezing or as gravity. If I need to carry more than the two 1L Smartwaters, I can just carry extra dirty water and filter later.

I think the process of filtering from one Smartwater bottle to another would be frustrating, having to burp the dirty bottle all the time.

[TwoRoads]

The CNOC Vecto looks sweet, so thanks for that suggestion. You're right about the constant burping. I've been able to get some ideas from all of the posts here and appreciate all the suggestions!

[HooKooDooKu]

I have been using the Cnoc Vecto https://cnocoutdoors.com/products/vecto-water-container for my dirty water container. It has a wide mouth at one end that can easily scoop water, and a threaded end to connect the filter. Since it collapses, it can be used by squeezing or as gravity. If I need to carry more than the two 1L Smartwaters, I can just carry extra dirty water and filter later.
I first saw the CNOC bladder in a youtube video by Darwin On The Trail posting about the equipment he's using this year for hiking the PCT.
To put it simplistically, you pay for the convenience by nearly doubling the weight of the bladder.
The Evernew bladder is 1.5oz, while the CNOC is 2.7oz.

I think the process of filtering from one Smartwater bottle to another would be frustrating, having to burp the dirty bottle all the time.
If I have my weights right, the 1.5L Evernew Water Carry weighs as much as a 1L Smartwater bottle (1.3oz).
Given that statistic, seems like the only reason to stick solely with Smartwater bottles is if you plan to drink strait from the bottle thru the filter (in which case you need a firm-sided container).
Otherwise, it makes more sense to carry one or two Smartwater bottles and one Evernew water Carry (or your bladder of choice depending upon the amount of convenience you want).

[Nanatuk]

I have the CNOC bladder and love it. It may weigh an ounce heavier, but its bulletproof. I use it for a gravity feed system with a Sawyer Squeeze and smart water bottle.

Only advice I would give is don't hang it solely by the plastic loop in the clamp, run your parachute cord under the ends of the clamp whenever the bag is full.

[Huntmog]

Another vote for Cnoc. Love that bladder. You can really put some force into it without worrying about breaking. I also love their folding trekking poles.

[Odd Man Out]

Anyone used a Versa Flow filter by Hydroblu? It superficially appears to be the same as a Sawyer Mini with identical specs. But it is threaded with female threads on both ends so unlike the Sawyer filters (Mini or Squeeze), it can be fitted to bladders or bottles with no adaptors or tubing. Most gravity systems I see us long tubing to get more hydrostatic pressure and faster flow rates, but I use my Sawyer Mini with only 1" of tubing to connect the adaptor and it works fine in gravity mode (with two 900 mL Evernew bladders). I may pick up one of these Versa Flow filters to eliminate the hassle and weight of the adaptor and tubing.

http://hydroblu.com/versa-flow-light-weight-water-filter/

[Bubblehead]

Aquatabs...

[Dogwood]

Keep the ball rolling. https://www.aquamira.com

Two part drops.

[Odd Man Out]

I now have my hands on a Versa Flow filter. I really like it. Great flow. Same basic size as a Sawyer Squeeze, but shaped like a Mini. Having threads on both sides make it most versitile.

I also have a CNOC bladder. It works well with the Versa Flow filter, but not with the mini. The threads on the versa flow are deeper and the gasket has a groove to make a tight seal on the mouth of the bottle. The mini has shallower threads and a flat gasket. I did not have this problem with my mini on water bottles or Evernew bladders. This is because the CNOC threads are made out of the same soft rubbery material as the rest of the bladder. Water bottles and the Evernew Bladders have a rigid plastic for the neck and threads. I think this makes the seal more robust.

[cmoulder]

Keep the ball rolling. https://www.aquamira.com

Two part drops.

Indeed... enough for about a week... 0.93oz
44321

Two 10ml bottles for A&B, one 3ml for daily mix, per Mike C! pre-mix YT video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAoy3VC3uy8).

[Furlough]

[QUOTE=Analog_Kidd;2219960]I have been using the Cnoc Vecto https://cnocoutdoors.com/products/vecto-water-container for my dirty water container. It has a wide mouth at one end that can easily scoop water, and a threaded end to connect the filter. Since it collapses, it can be used by squeezing or as gravity. If I need to carry more than the two 1L Smartwaters, I can just carry extra dirty water and filter later.

I like this concept. One question - have you tried to collect water with it from shallow very low flow water sources? Seems pretty easy for water sources as shown in the video, but as luck would have it I frequently am gathering water from shallow very low flow water sources.

Furlough

[Cheyou]

My body doesn’t need any more chemicals. I just use a squeeze. I’m surprised some of the “healthy food advocates” use chemicals for water treatment .

Thom

[Harrison Bergeron]

The only guy I met on the AT who didn't bring a stove wanted to borrow mine because he was tired of chewing dry ramen noodles. Don't be that guy.

As for your water system, use the sawyer squeeze with the 1 liter dirty water bag. Carry two 1L smart bottles and the dirty water bag full, to make it all day without filtering. If you insist on filtering water at lunch, just carry one bottle. It's something you can easily adjust on the trail. If you don't want to carry the hypodermic to back-flush, just buy another cartridge when it quits working. It's only $30.

[Analog_Kidd]

I like this concept. One question - have you tried to collect water with it from shallow very low flow water sources? Seems pretty easy for water sources as shown in the video, but as luck would have it I frequently am gathering water from shallow very low flow water sources.

Furlough

if you mean like from a puddle, I have not. I've been fortunate so far and all water sources have been deep pools, or fairly well flowing springs. Some springs have been shallow, and as long as the water flows some, the bag fills right up. The bag works best if you can use it as a scoop, or to capture flowing water.

[Analog_Kidd]

I now have my hands on a Versa Flow filter. I really like it. Great flow. Same basic size as a Sawyer Squeeze, but shaped like a Mini. Having threads on both sides make it most versitile.

I also have a CNOC bladder. It works well with the Versa Flow filter, but not with the mini. The threads on the versa flow are deeper and the gasket has a groove to make a tight seal on the mouth of the bottle. The mini has shallower threads and a flat gasket. I did not have this problem with my mini on water bottles or Evernew bladders. This is because the CNOC threads are made out of the same soft rubbery material as the rest of the bladder. Water bottles and the Evernew Bladders have a rigid plastic for the neck and threads. I think this makes the seal more robust.

Somehow , I poked a hole in my Cnoc Vecto, so I ordered a new one. They redesigned the neck and made it a lot stiffer, including the shoulder that you hold when screwing on the filter. It's much easier to thread on the filter now.

BTW, I called them about the hole that I clearly caused, and they said to use some Tenacious Tape on it. I got the clear plastic tape and it seems to have made a good patch. I'll be carrying some in my emergency kit.

[Starchild]

The largest weight factor in a water system is usually not the purification method, nor the bottle, nor both combined, but the water carried itself. Some methods lend themselves for carrying more or less water. Some water systems can, in theory, lend itself to small amounts of water being carried but in practice lend themselves to more water weight the the theoretical minimum, usually quite a bit more. It is one of the main time that base weight calculations end up biting you in the ass and have you carry more weight overall.

[RangerZ]

I use a Sawyer mini. I drilled a hole in a soda bottle cap and force fitted and glued it to the output side. I use 2 liter Evernew bags for both dirty and clean water sides. I punched holes at the bottom of the bags to carry and hang them as they gravity filter. I know it is not the most hydraulically efficient set up but it’s simple and works for me. YMMV.

I also added a quick disconnect on the output side and can filter directly into my bladder.

[cmoulder]

My body doesn’t need any more chemicals. I just use a squeeze. I’m surprised some of the “healthy food advocates” use chemicals for water treatment .

Thom

This is a good point, but I think Slim Jims and Ding Dongs are health food so I guess I'm okay with it. :sun

At any rate, chlorine dioxide is used in a lot of municipal water treatment (http://www.selectivemicro.com/insights-water/128-treating-municipal-water-with-chlorine-dioxide) systems so we're likely getting it already. Unless the water I collect looks seriously manky (stinky with lots of floaties) I use far fewer AM drops than recommended anyway, which is nearly always.

[Odd Man Out]

The only guy I met on the AT who didn't bring a stove wanted to borrow mine because he was tired of chewing dry ramen noodles. Don't be that guy.

As for your water system, use the sawyer squeeze with the 1 liter dirty water bag. Carry two 1L smart bottles and the dirty water bag full, to make it all day without filtering. If you insist on filtering water at lunch, just carry one bottle. It's something you can easily adjust on the trail. If you don't want to carry the hypodermic to back-flush, just buy another cartridge when it quits working. It's only $30.

Why not use the same system with the Hydroblu Versa flow filter? It is is lighter and chaper than the Sawyer with the same flow rate. Threaded on both ends so no need for adaptors or back-flush syringe.

[Cheyou]

This is a good point, but I think Slim Jims and Ding Dongs are health food so I guess I'm okay with it. :sun

At any rate, chlorine dioxide is used in a lot of municipal water treatment (http://www.selectivemicro.com/insights-water/128-treating-municipal-water-with-chlorine-dioxide) systems so we're likely getting it already. Unless the water I collect looks seriously manky (stinky with lots of floaties) I use far fewer AM drops than recommended anyway, which is nearly always.

Well you got me there ha ha . We ain’t got no city water. It seams to taste funny to me .Bin knows to eat a Ding Dong or two in them emergency situations that creeep up daily.

Not it a fan of filters for winter hiking . Frozen filter issues.

Merry Christmas to all Thom

[gbolt]

[QUOTE=Analog_Kidd;2219960]I have been using the Cnoc Vecto https://cnocoutdoors.com/products/vecto-water-container for my dirty water container. One question - have you tried to collect water with it from shallow very low flow water sources? Seems pretty easy for water sources as shown in the video, but as luck would have it I frequently am gathering water from shallow very low flow water sources.
Furlough
It’s my favorite dirty water container that I used on the AT. However, there were water sources that I still needed a “scoop” bottle; Just a thin drinking bottle with the bottom cut off. Still easier to scoop and pour into the wide mouth end rather than the screw cap opening.

[Furlough]

[QUOTE=Furlough;2231964]It’s my favorite dirty water container that I used on the AT. However, there were water sources that I still needed a “scoop” bottle; Just a thin drinking bottle with the bottom cut off. Still easier to scoop and pour into the wide mouth end rather than the screw cap opening.
I currently do something similar - I have a very old plastic cup that came with my Boy Scout Mess Kit and I use that to scoop with. But I do like the design of this bag, a lot easier to pour the scooped water into the wide end.

Furlough

[Bwana59]

Not to hijack the thread, but has anyone had significant use of the Sawyer Micro? I'm thinking about using it this year on the trail. I have a cheap Chinese filter I used last year. Have no idea how many litters of water it will filter before it is dead, or how safe it is and would hate to find out the hard way. I plan to carry it with me as a spare. FWIW, I'm a two bottle and dirty water bladder guy myself. Got to get A new bladder before I leave.