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petedelisio
08-11-2018, 23:36
So, I'm looking at and considering these new fangled packs Zpaks UL MLD etc .... with the super thin strap down the shoulder pads with very little padding.
Watching some of these videos it appears much of the weight is transferred to the shoulders. thoughts and opinions on this???
As a rough guide, Could you bet on one of these packs to flipflop the AT twice.
The Zpacks max recommended weight is 30lbs.... At maximum load How much of that weight is felt in the shoulders? How much of the weight is transferred to the waist?

Are the thin shoulder straps and thin padding any count beyond an AT thruhike?

I will probably go the extra 11 ounces for my old gregory which is about 40L and would probably survive a fall off of a cliff, but these old bones are talking to my brain and they won't shutup. And apparently I can't be changed midstream.

DuneElliot
08-12-2018, 00:06
I love my ZPacks Arc Haul and very little of the weight is on my shoulders. I have a 19" torso (or there-abouts) and have it set so that maybe 5% of the weight is actually leaning against my shoulders. ZPacks is very good about this...if you buy the right size. The padding is actually decent too.

petedelisio
08-12-2018, 00:42
I love my ZPacks Arc Haul and very little of the weight is on my shoulders. I have a 19" torso (or there-abouts) and have it set so that maybe 5% of the weight is actually leaning against my shoulders. ZPacks is very good about this...if you buy the right size. The padding is actually decent too.

How much weight do you haul with your haul?
And you get pretty much no downward weight on your shoulders?

DuneElliot
08-12-2018, 01:08
How much weight do you haul with your haul?
And you get pretty much no downward weight on your shoulders?

I have carried it with a maximum of 30#...I wouldn't go heavier than that, no matter what they claim

I have no downward weight on my shoulders because of the way I have the shoulder straps adjusted. They are only there to stop the pack falling backwards. I find any weight on my shoulders tiring.

colorado_rob
08-12-2018, 09:29
I cannot rave enough about the comfort of my ArcHAul, fantastic pack. I personally think it's comfy for up to 35lb, as I carried that much (maybe a tad more) a few times w/o discomfort recently on the PCT (6 liters of water carried a few times with 6 days of food, ugh...). But I'm probably 50% heavier than Dune (just a guess).

As far as durability, I think the pack should be good for up to two AT thru hikes, but probably will be a bit worn in places by then. Doing some quick math, I have 1500 miles on mine (bought a year ago) without noticeable signs of any wear-related failures, but I can see places where it might fail in a couple years (call it another 3000 miles).

One does pay the price a bit on durability for truly UL gear, I'm personally willing to pay this. Plus my wife is a good seamstress, can repair most anything that can be repaired with a sewing needle.

My Arc Haul is quite simply my favorite all-time pack.

MuddyWaters
08-12-2018, 09:41
Durability depends on you

Ive got about 1200 miles on a cuben arc blast
It will go a few thousand more for sure

What ive always said about the pack, is Joe got something right. It rides vertically, doesnt lean away from back heavily, doesnt need load lifters or chest strap to hold it upright

Fit depends on your body, and how you like to wear it, nobody can tell you if you will like a pack over internet. Get it and try it

Slo-go'en
08-12-2018, 10:06
If you buy an ultra light pack, everything you put in it must also be ultra light. Don't overload it and it will be comfortable. Don't drag it over rocks and it will last a long time.

colorado_rob
08-12-2018, 10:20
If you buy an ultra light pack, everything you put in it must also be ultra light. Don't overload it and it will be comfortable. Don't drag it over rocks and it will last a long time. I hear you, but I would respectfully sort-of disagree with this, the Arc Haul is an Ultralight pack, but the 30-35 total pounds that it will comfortably carry might not be really UL, unless it's a lot of food and water, in other words, a 15 pound base (not at all UL) with 20 pounds of food/water will work in an Arc Haul. I guess it's just semantics, and you make a good point anyway: don't try to carry a heavy kit in a UL pack.

Captain Panda
08-12-2018, 11:04
What is the point of spending for an UL pack if you plan on carrying 35 lbs. I agree with Slo-go'en; either go UL, or don't. The 2+ lbs you save with the UL pack compared to the added comfort of a more conventional pack such as an Osprey Atmos won't matter. This also begs the question of why you need to carry 35 lbs on the AT. I'm not an UL hiker, but using the already mentioned Osprey pack on a Flip Flop; fully loaded, (including food and water); I kept it between 26-28 lbs. That said; I have considered going full on UL, but as a retired guy, can't justify the big $$$ for all the gear.

colorado_rob
08-12-2018, 11:20
What is the point of spending for an UL pack if you plan on carrying 35 lbs. My point is: sometimes 35 pounds IS ultralight. Like when you have to make a big food and water carry, even though the rest of your gear is truly UL. I suppose though, since this is on the AT part of the forum, my point doesn't really apply, since really, there are no places along the AT where such big carries (like 6 liters of water and 7 days of food, or whatever combo thereof). I suppose if one wants to hike through the 100-mile wilderness without the hassle of a mid-section resupply, one might have to carry 7-8 days of food through there.

Still, another part of my point is that the Zpacks Arc Haul, though a UL pack, acts very much like a heavier, more supportive pack. For example, though a pound lighter, my Arc Haul carries a load significantly better than my Osprey Exos.

So, if you can afford the cost, and don't mind taking a slight durability hit, why NOT save the extra pound (or more) and buy the Arc Haul? You don't sacrifice any comfort with this fantastic pack (again, as long as you do keep it down to 30-35 lbs max).

One more point about buying such a pack such as the Arc Haul, and then I'll shut up: Perhaps you're not UL yet, but at least you're starting to trim your kit and maybe you're at least "lightweight". Most of us cannot afford to buy all UL gear at once (nor is it a good idea even if you can), so getting an Arc Haul is at least a good place to start. Maybe later you can spring for that nice UL zpacks Cuben fiber tent, then later that 1-pound quilt, etc, etc. Because the Arc Haul acts likes a heavier more supportive pack, it is a good place to start.

Slo-go'en
08-12-2018, 14:50
I kept it between 26-28 lbs. That said; I have considered going full on UL, but as a retired guy, can't justify the big $$$ for all the gear.

The older I get and the more miles I put under my feet, the greater the incentive to invest in UL replacement gear. Just wish I could really afford it though.

soumodeler
08-12-2018, 16:42
I have hundreds of miles on my ArcHaul Zip, with almost zero signs of wear. I have carried up to 30 pounds without issue, and normally carry 20-25. It is extremely comfortable below 25, and not bad at 30. Over 30 I think it would be okay just for a short section, like carrying water to a dry camp. I don’t have any issue with weight on the shoulders.

Venchka
08-13-2018, 01:24
I have carried it with a maximum of 30#...I wouldn't go heavier than that, no matter what they claim

I have no downward weight on my shoulders because of the way I have the shoulder straps adjusted. They are only there to stop the pack falling backwards. I find any weight on my shoulders tiring.
This is nothing new for well designed backpacks dating back to the Dark Ages, around the mid-1970s. Joe doesn’t get any credit for coming up with a revolutionary design. His pack works as it should. Just like hundreds of others over the 50-60 odd decades since the likes of Gerry, Kelty, Rivendell, etc. began making quality, comfortable backpacks.
Wayne

cmoulder
08-13-2018, 06:35
This is nothing new for well designed backpacks dating back to the Dark Ages, around the mid-1970s. Joe doesn’t get any credit for coming up with a revolutionary design. His pack works as it should. Just like hundreds of others over the 50-60 odd decades since the likes of Gerry, Kelty, Rivendell, etc. began making quality, comfortable backpacks.
Wayne
He got a patent on some aspect of it, but I've been too lazy to look it up and read the Claims section, which is the important part of a patent. It can't be the trampoline design itself because that's been around for a long time, so I'm thinking it's the adjustable arc feature.

So while not revolutionary, certainly evolutionary.

Elaikases
08-13-2018, 07:46
I have carried it with a maximum of 30#...I wouldn't go heavier than that, no matter what they claim

I have no downward weight on my shoulders because of the way I have the shoulder straps adjusted. They are only there to stop the pack falling backwards. I find any weight on my shoulders tiring.
Same with my Osprey Exos. The straps ride loosely and are there to keep the pack from falling off.

MuddyWaters
08-13-2018, 08:43
This is nothing new for well designed backpacks dating back to the Dark Ages, around the mid-1970s. Joe doesn’t get any credit for coming up with a revolutionary design. His pack works as it should. Just like hundreds of others over the 50-60 odd decades since the likes of Gerry, Kelty, Rivendell, etc. began making quality, comfortable backpacks.
Wayne
Joes packs are really UL packs.
My original arc weighed 16.7 oz new, more now with a few repairs and reinforcements.

No one else has ever approached this in commercially succesdful framed pack. Shoving two arrow shafts on sides.....isnt same.

The 3 oz frame, is the difference between comfortably carrying 15 lb, and 25. While needing no internal or external padding to keep hard objects off back. This last point is downfall of nearly every other lightweight or UL design with and without frame. My ccf for lower legs stays on top, accessible as sitpad. Back not sweaty. Not inside pack against back.

Venchka
08-13-2018, 11:42
Oops.
5-6 odd decades. Not 50-60 odd decades.
Muddy Waters:
While you were splitting hairs you missed my major error.
Wayne

Hosh
08-13-2018, 15:21
This is nothing new for well designed backpacks dating back to the Dark Ages, around the mid-1970s. Joe doesn’t get any credit for coming up with a revolutionary design. His pack works as it should. Just like hundreds of others over the 50-60 odd decades since the likes of Gerry, Kelty, Rivendell, etc. began making quality, comfortable backpacks.
Wayne

If this weren’t so stupid, it would actually be funny.

Wanna make the same statements about golf clubs, tennis rackets, oh never mind.

Integrating high tech materials, developing new processes, oh never mind

If you don’t own one, it can’t be any good, jeepers

Venchka
08-13-2018, 17:22
Load bearing hipbelt.
Shoulder straps non-load bearing.
Circa late 60’s or early ‘70s.
Everything old is new again.
Total weight has diminished with mixed results.
Wayne

Dogwood
08-13-2018, 23:58
So, I'm looking at and considering these new fangled packs Zpaks UL MLD etc .... with the super thin strap down the shoulder pads with very little padding.
Watching some of these videos it appears much of the weight is transferred to the shoulders. thoughts and opinions on this???

Depends on the model and the USER.
As a rough guide, Could you bet on one of these packs to flipflop the AT twice.

That's 4X AT thrus. I say no way!

Jayne
08-14-2018, 11:21
So, I'm looking at and considering these new fangled packs Zpaks UL MLD etc .... with the super thin strap down the shoulder pads with very little padding.
Watching some of these videos it appears much of the weight is transferred to the shoulders. thoughts and opinions on this???
As a rough guide, Could you bet on one of these packs to flipflop the AT twice.
The Zpacks max recommended weight is 30lbs.... At maximum load How much of that weight is felt in the shoulders? How much of the weight is transferred to the waist?

Are the thin shoulder straps and thin padding any count beyond an AT thruhike?

I will probably go the extra 11 ounces for my old gregory which is about 40L and would probably survive a fall off of a cliff, but these old bones are talking to my brain and they won't shutup. And apparently I can't be changed midstream.
It's always a bit of a balancing act and depends a lot on what you personally prefer. I liked the ARC Haul but found all of the tiny straps and buckles and adjustments too fiddly. I hated adjusting stuff all the time and it slipped a lot, etc. I'm packing a Hyperlight Mountain Gear 3400 Windrider now. I just prefer the stouter material and simplicity of design with my gear. JMHO, YMMV.

DuneElliot
08-14-2018, 11:34
It's always a bit of a balancing act and depends a lot on what you personally prefer. I liked the ARC Haul but found all of the tiny straps and buckles and adjustments too fiddly. I hated adjusting stuff all the time and it slipped a lot, etc. I'm packing a Hyperlight Mountain Gear 3400 Windrider now. I just prefer the stouter material and simplicity of design with my gear. JMHO, YMMV.

It's funny that you mentioned the slippage. The webbing they USED to use had zero issues with slippage and was a little rougher. I just got my pack repaired and they've changed the webbing to something smoother and more slick, and now things slip. I'm not a fan...they need to go back to the stuff they used before.

petedelisio
08-14-2018, 16:19
That's 4X AT thrus. I say no way!

Thanks, I will probably be anywhere between 16 and 35 lbs considering the pack itselfs weight. At various points and times on the trail and may make another go a little deep into Canada once. Guessing averaging 22lbs

Will await more input.... Anybody interested in reinforcing a pack ahead of time. Tho I am leaning away from these packs.
Don't know if I want to bother with being extra careful on a pack

globetruck
08-15-2018, 08:25
I love my ZPacks arc haul. It’s not perfect but it’s the best I’ve found in terms of comfort, ability to carry MY load, and features that fit MY style. In other words, everyone has slightly different needs.

I tend to cinch down the hip belt quite tight and carry most weight on my hips. The Arc Haul’s thin hip belt pads actually help in this regard. After a few days of hiking, the pads start forming to my hips. Additionally, the double straps on each side enable me to tighten the thinner pads right around my hip bones. Thick hip belts with a single strap don’t work the same way. My biggest single gripe is that the bottom flat carbon bar is sometimes noticeable depending on how I pack it. I ended up getting the additional hip pad that seems to be an 85% solution. Like I said, it’s not perfect, but the 15% that I don’t like hasn’t dissuaded me from using the Arc Haul as my single favorite pack.

And specifically regarding the shoulder straps, they’re the same - after a few days to break in the pack, the straps mold to my shoulders and distribute weight amazingly well.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Dogwood
08-15-2018, 14:24
Thanks, I will probably be anywhere between 16 and 35 lbs considering the pack itselfs weight. At various points and times on the trail and may make another go a little deep into Canada once. Guessing averaging 22lbs

Will await more input.... Anybody interested in reinforcing a pack ahead of time. Tho I am leaning away from these packs.
Don't know if I want to bother with being extra careful on a pack

The packs mentioned are already reinforced in high wear areas. But, I can understand the concern if dropping $300+ on a supposed UL pack that you want to extend the useful life. I've gotten up to about 7000-8000K on and off trail miles on a ULA CDT. That's unusual though IMO. I like the price at $145. I still have two at the previous $135. I keep the older ones for spare parts and I rotate the same model of several I own to extend life. Same with MLD BURN and ZP Arc Haul. The pack replacement cost isn't as substantial as say $300+. Part of extending life is picking the right pack from my pack quiver(I basically own three models) for the anticipated conditions. I clean and repair anything ASAP. Mesh gets holes first. I dont overload by wt or volume. I think I correctly wear my packs too. I dont over stress shoulder straps or hip belts by throwing them around by grabbing such parts, or pull on zippers or pulls at weird angles. I always use pull grabs on the top center of the pack. I dont abuse gear. Cleaning by doing a hose washing and cleaning buckles, zippers, etc extends the life of a pack every 3 wks or so on trail or as needed. Bring along a needle and thread( I use dental floss) and use tape(works fine on cuben) or McNetts Seam Grip for repairs. I'm careful what and how I pack.