View Full Version : Privy: Doesn't Belong in the Back Country
HooKooDooKu
08-13-2018, 22:16
"Nice idea, but does not belong in the back country and should not be maintained by volunteers!!!"
This was the graffiti drawn on the privy at Tricorner Knob shelter in GSMNP.
I'm having problem interpreting this in any other way other than the ignorant rambling of an entitled millennial that seems to think the National Park Service has built these privies for their "comfort" rather than for the protection of the back country.
Yea, this post is mostly a rant... but in case there are any ignorant hiker like the author of this graffiti out there reading this... those privies were built to protect the back country from the destruction causes by large number of people digging cat holes in a concentrated area and instead "collects" human waste in a way that allows the waste to be composted.
MuddyWaters
08-13-2018, 22:37
Perhaps was referring to wheelchair accessible aspect to comply with ADA?
Because its horse accessible, the privy was rebuilt as handicap accessible some yrs ago. 2012 ish. People that dont know horses are allowed on that part AT question how wheelchair could get there. Theres a hitching post on AT above shelter if I recall.
DuneElliot
08-13-2018, 22:40
In the same vein as an article on Backpacker Magazine's FB page regarding the existence of cairns and trails
HooKooDooKu
08-13-2018, 22:46
Perhaps was referring to wheelchair accessible aspect to comply with ADA?
Perhaps... if it had been written on the wall near the retractable handicap bar.
But the graffiti was written on the door... and I don't see the link between ADA access and volunteers?
The bar is the only thing that makes this privy look ADA compliant; because otherwise, the only thing else that makes it ADA compliant (other than size) is the "ramp" that leads to the entrance. But in this case, the privy is built on a hillside such that the entrance is level with the ground and a level "ramp" would be he most appropriate entrance even it not trying to make is ADA compliant.
illabelle
08-14-2018, 06:48
Perhaps... if it had been written on the wall near the retractable handicap bar.
But the graffiti was written on the door... and I don't see the link between ADA access and volunteers?
The bar is the only thing that makes this privy look ADA compliant; because otherwise, the only thing else that makes it ADA compliant (other than size) is the "ramp" that leads to the entrance. But in this case, the privy is built on a hillside such that the entrance is level with the ground and a level "ramp" would be he most appropriate entrance even it not trying to make is ADA compliant.
Additionally, only a portion of the AT through the park is open to horses. I don't think the ADA stuff is happening only in those areas.
Additionally, only a portion of the AT through the park is open to horses. I don't think the ADA stuff is happening only in those areas.
ADA privies are happening all along the AT - its because the law does not make exceptions for the trail and if the clubs along the trail replaced privies with a new privies that are not ADA they will be sued. Same is happening with lean-too's look for them to have ADA accessibility whenever they get replaced.
ADA privies are happening all along the AT - its because the law does not make exceptions for the trail and if the clubs along the trail replaced privies with a new privies that are not ADA they will be sued. Same is happening with lean-too's look for them to have ADA accessibility whenever they get replaced.
i personally am eagerly waiting for the day when a hiker who is able to reach madison spring hut needs to use the wheelchair ramp to access it because they cant go up 3 steps.
How does the Government reconcile the Wilderness Act and the ADA?
My old fuzzy brain recalls the Wilderness Act predates the ADA. The Wilderness Act doesn’t allow wheeled conveyances.
Meanwhile, on a personal pet peeve topic, a bridge on Vallecito Creek washed away years ago. The Forest Service says that rebuilding the bridge is against provisions of the Wilderness Act. Conversely, the San Juan NF authorized the use of helicopters to study bighorn sheep within the Weminuche.
Go figure.
On topic: There is no accounting for human behavior.
Y’all have fun!
Wayne
P. S. :
Have any of you visited the Ranger guided cliff dwellings at Mesa Verde NP?
Wayne
I have no idea if this was a Millennial, but anyone who thinks it is OK to deface a trail structure with graffiti is a self-entitled ignoramus. Does he or she think that the GRAFFITI improved the forest experience?? If you have an opinion on what belongs in the backcountry, feel free to express it by donating countless hours of your time learning what is and isn't good for the trail, then getting out there and actually improving it.
P. S. :
Have any of you visited the Ranger guided cliff dwellings at Mesa Verde NP?
Wayne
Yea those pueblo indians sure were terrible at LNT! ;)
Yea those pueblo indians sure were terrible at LNT! ;)
This discussion makes me wonder about the ADA and access to places like Cliff Palace.
Wayne
This discussion makes me wonder about the ADA and access to places like Cliff Palace.
Wayne
Joking aside it is really tough to strike a good balance in that aspect without having too much impact. Not an easy problem and definitely wont have an easy solution.
BlackCloud
08-14-2018, 08:54
But who would do the suing?
DuneElliot
08-14-2018, 09:20
Just as so y'all have the correct info, the ADA applies to current and future buildings: "ensures access to the built environment for people with disabilities. The ADA Standards establish design requirements for the construction and alteration of facilities subject to the law. These enforceable standards apply to places of public accommodation, commercial facilities, and state and local government facilities."
This doesn't mean that EVERYTHING in the US has be accessible
DuneElliot
08-14-2018, 09:22
A good link for outdoor recreation ADA compliance:
https://www.access-board.gov/guidelines-and-standards/recreation-facilities/outdoor-developed-areas/a-summary-of-accessibility-standards-for-federal-outdoor-developed-areas
The new privies the MATC is putting in are all ADA compliant. It was cheaper to build them that way than to file for an exception. The first one I saw was at a stealth campsite just before South Arm Rd. It was like something out of a comedy for the absurd. One either has to go over a mountain range, or cross a brook with steep banks.
Additionally, only a portion of the AT through the park is open to horses. I don't think the ADA stuff is happening only in those areas.
Theres an ADA privy at Leconte shelter.....
Berserker
08-14-2018, 10:25
Yea, this post is mostly a rant... but in case there are any ignorant hiker like the author of this graffiti out there reading this... those privies were built to protect the back country from the destruction causes by large number of people digging cat holes in a concentrated area and instead "collects" human waste in a way that allows the waste to be composted.
Agreed. A good example of what an area looks like without a privy is Rufus Morgan shelter in NC right before the NOC. It's been a while since I've been there, but I remember the entire embankment behind the shelter being the toilet, and it was freakin nasty.
ADA privies are happening all along the AT - its because the law does not make exceptions for the trail and if the clubs along the trail replaced privies with a new privies that are not ADA they will be sued. Same is happening with lean-too's look for them to have ADA accessibility whenever they get replaced.
I personally like the ADA privies because they are much larger. As someone that is 6'-5" tall and hates privies, I'll sometimes avoid the smaller ones because I don't like doing my business with my knees up against the door.
I'm having problem interpreting this in any other way other than the ignorant rambling of an entitled millennial that seems to think the National Park Service has built these privies for their "comfort" rather than for the protection of the back country.
how do you know it's a millennial that is doing the defacing?
after all----the people that were suing the Park over the backcountry fees were also against privies like this...
and those guys are far from being millennial...
how do you know it's a millennial that is doing the defacing?
after all----the people that were suing the Park over the backcountry fees were also against privies like this...
and those guys are far from being millennial...
Everyone always likes to blame the younger generation, while conveniently forgetting their generation created and raised the younger generation to be what they are.
This story reminds me of when locals in Lincoln NH painted "Dont Mass it Up" on some large rocks at a swimming hole popular with tourists. There are far better, and less hypocritical ways to make a point.
Ashepabst
08-14-2018, 11:06
isn't it the Ridge Runners that maintain those privies?
But who would do the suing?
any lawyer hoping to win a judgement/monetary award - lawyers will attack anything at any time if they think it can make them a buck.
HooKooDooKu
08-14-2018, 11:33
Theres an ADA privy at Leconte shelter.....
I think at this point, ALL the privies in GSMNP have been replaced with the new ADA designed style... not so much to get ADA compliant, but because the new design is a composting privy AND has three "stations", so that when one station fills up, they move the seat to one of the other stations.
(Can't say for sure they have all been updated... the last time I remember visiting the one at Spence Field, it was a single seater "test" privy used to prove this composting method was going to work before they started updating all the privies.
how do you know it's a millennial that is doing the defacing?
Obviously there is no way to know for sure...
But assuming the text was addressing the privy as a whole (NOT just the ADA aspect of it), it simply "fits" with a hiker "newbie" that doesn't understand the real purpose for privies, and the perception of the millennial's being an "entitled" group (i.e. the assumption that this privy is here for my comfort rather than considering the possibility it is here for the protection of the forest).
As for the ADA component to these shelters... I don't see that as much of a big deal. It looks like the only thing being added to get ADA compliant is the grab bars. Small price to pay to avoid jumping thru hoops to get an exemption.
HooKooDooKu
08-14-2018, 11:38
isn't it the Ridge Runners that maintain those privies?
I have seen Ridge Runners maintain the privies, but they are not hired year-round from what I understand... and for most of the season, there's only one for the entire AT thru GSMNP.
I know that some (all?) GSMNP campsites have been "adopted" by local volunteers that do what they can to keep the campsites clean.
So I could see where volunteers would have "adopted" the shelters as well and that both the volunteers AND ridge runners work together to maintain the privies.
Starchild
08-14-2018, 12:44
Some of that sounds a lot like elitist outdoor snobs, who believe in HYOH only if you do it their way and want to make it uncomfortable for others to hike by such things as removal of privies, shelters, blazes. May also be sexist it keep women out of the woods, if it is perceived women prefer privies more then men*, though I don't know if that is a common though of people who support this, but I wouldn't be surprised .
i personally am eagerly waiting for the day when a hiker who is able to reach madison spring hut needs to use the wheelchair ramp to access it because they cant go up 3 steps.
LMAO. At the Partnership shelter last weekend, there were some signs posted about No Alcoholic Beverages permitted within vicinity of shelter, including reference to the specific CFR code. Then the head scratching gov't red tape revealed itself, excluded from this ban were wilderness firefighting personnel in performance of their duties. I understand that they probably have blanket exemption privileges, but just silly that it needed to be spelled out to all of us. I can see Joe FF putting out a fire there and reading the sign then yelling at his buddies to go bring the cooler from his truck.
On the original topic, it's about time they started putting up privies in GSMNP! The backside of those shelter areas is absolutely disgusting. Why litter an entire hillside when you could contain it to a 5x5 pit via privy.
"Nice idea, but does not belong in the back country and should not be maintained by volunteers!!!"
I'm having problem interpreting this in any other way other than the ignorant rambling of an entitled millennial that seems to think the National Park Service has built these privies for their "comfort" rather than for the protection of the back country.
I'm failing to see how this could be an entitled millenial hiker. I would think they would be all for privy's, and why would they care who maintained it! If anything, this reaks of a "get off my lawn" aging hiker or even trail volunteer, ahem, I mean 'experienced backcountry enthusiast' who is against the idea of privy's because they are somehow destroying the pristine landscape of his beloved Smokies.
As far as I know---the privies are maintained by both ridge runners and volunteers....
and the perception of the millennial's being an "entitled" group
and the group who was suing the Park over backcountry fees fits into the "entitled" category...
they are not young spring chickens and they thought they had/have certain "rights" within the Park...
I'm failing to see how this could be an entitled millenial hiker. I would think they would be all for privy's, and why would they care who maintained it! If anything, this reaks of a "get off my lawn" aging hiker or even trail volunteer, ahem, I mean 'experienced backcountry enthusiast' who is against the idea of privy's because they are somehow destroying the pristine landscape of his beloved Smokies.
People twist reality all sorts of weird ways to fit whatever narrative they subscribe to. Trying to pin a misguided call for minimalism and removal of amenities on a group that is supposedly "entitled" is certainly an odd twist, and says more about the OP than the reality of the situation.
HooKooDooKu
08-14-2018, 14:30
I'm failing to see how this could be an entitled millenial hiker. I would think they would be all for privy's, and why would they care who maintained it! If anything, this reaks of a "get off my lawn" aging hiker or even trail volunteer, ahem, I mean 'experienced backcountry enthusiast' who is against the idea of privy's because they are somehow destroying the pristine landscape of his beloved Smokies.
Because any 'EXPERIENCED backcountry enthusiast' would have seen the result of numerous people digging inadequate cat-holes around GSMNP shelters and quickly understand the protection a composting privy provides to the surroundings.
Also, any EXPERIENCED GSMNP hiker would know that GSMNP hasn't been "pristine" since the 1st logger reached what is now park lands. Well before these new privies were constructed, there have been shelters in the GSMNP back country. Those shelters that received high usage have had smelly latines for years as well. So any EXPERIENCED GSMNP hiker would quickly understand how much better these new privies are compared to what came before them.
As for the question of 'volunteers', again, that seems to play into the notion the author seems to have an entitlement attitude... that maintaining the "bathroom" in the back country should be the job of the government and doesn't understand the government IS NOT going to spend the money that is NEEDED to maintain the back country from the abuse is suffers from the ignorant and selfish... that there are people who love and care for the GSMNP enough that they volunteer their time and effort to help protect it.
HooKooDooKu
08-14-2018, 14:35
and the group who was suing the Park over backcountry fees fits into the "entitled" category...
they are not young spring chickens and they thought they had/have certain "rights" within the Park...
While I was NOT specifically a part of the group that tried to fight the backcountry fees, I must say that I have been a vocal opponent to them...
But unlike that group that didn't want any fees, my objection was the size of the fees.
Moving from a telephone reservation system to an online system was a great idea, and that alone was definitely worth some fee. But as a parent that often brings children along in the back country, I objected to having to spend almost as much for a back country campsite, where my only amenity is a bear cable, as families that reserve front country sites with picnic tables, trash cans, flush toilets, and running water.
I objected to having to spend almost as much for a back country campsite, where my only amenity is a bear cable, as families that reserve front country sites with picnic tables, trash cans, flush toilets, and running wate
that was one of the arguments that the group brought to the court...........it was in their filings...
but, just like everything else, the court shot them down and shot them down hard........the court found that they didnt prove much....
which leads me to the question----are you happy with the fees at 4 bucks?
Traffic Jam
08-14-2018, 22:10
I’m not sure why people think that having an ADA privy in the Backcountry is ludicrous. More and more people with disabilities are breaking boundaries and more power to ‘em.
https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/green-life/adaptive-sports-making-impossible-possible
HooKooDooKu
08-14-2018, 22:13
t----are you happy with the fees at 4 bucks?
For individuals, I'm ok with the $4/night... but I feel like it would have been more appropriate to be $4 per tent or $4 per family or "kids stay free".
For individuals, I'm ok with the $4/night... but I feel like it would have been more appropriate to be $4 per tent or $4 per family or "kids stay free".
i brought this up to the Park when they had the first set of meetings on the fee...............back in 1999...
i am fine with paying a fee-----however with me being a solo hiker, i didnt want to pay the same fee for a spot as a group of 8...........as in, one set price.......
i am fine with the 4 buck fee-----but then again, i havent not hike in the Park since the fees went into place...
not because im protesting the Park (unlike the people who sued the Park and claimed they would never stay in the Park anymore)----its just that my goals have changed....
HooKooDooKu
08-14-2018, 23:16
---however with me being a solo hiker, i didnt want to pay the same fee for a spot as a group of 8...
Agreed...
That's why I suggested something like "per tent" or "per family"... and to avoid calling your group of 8 a "family", it would be reasonable to treat it like a hotel... $4 for upto two adults (in one tent for tent sites) and kids under 18 for free...
I have not changed my hiking habits since the new fee went into effect... but it can now cost me between $4 and $16 PER NIGHT for a back country campsite depending upon what family members come along.
Agreed...
That's why I suggested something like "per tent" or "per family"... and to avoid calling your group of 8 a "family", it would be reasonable to treat it like a hotel... $4 for upto two adults (in one tent for tent sites) and kids under 18 for free...
I have not changed my hiking habits since the new fee went into effect... but it can now cost me between $4 and $16 PER NIGHT for a back country campsite depending upon what family members come along.
Yout point is well made.
I think your suggestion for GSNP made a great deal of sense.
The same issue persists at 9 staffed backcountry sites in the Whites, where it would cost $40 for a family of 4 to share a single tent platform for a single night.
Mother Natures Son
08-15-2018, 07:27
Many years ago there was a movement to make every mile of the AT, ADA compliant. Go figure.
Many years ago there was a movement to make every mile of the AT, ADA compliant. Go figure.
You've got to be kidding me! What a ridiculous notion. There is a guy whose life's mission is to go into food establishments, find ADA violations, and then sue. He's sued hundreds of times. I think people may start with good intentions, but then hubris takes over and they forget why they started.
I’m not sure why people think that having an ADA privy in the Backcountry is ludicrous. More and more people with disabilities are breaking boundaries and more power to ‘em.
Indeed. Several years ago I ran into a slightly overweight guy at LeConte shelter who hiked up there with an above knee prosthesis. He had a heck of a time getting there. Pretty awesome to see.
lonehiker
08-15-2018, 11:00
Indeed. Several years ago I ran into a slightly overweight guy at LeConte shelter who hiked up there with an above knee prosthesis. He had a heck of a time getting there. Pretty awesome to see.
I would contend that this same hiker would have been able to "make do" with a non-ADA compliant privy and/or shelter.
FreeGoldRush
08-15-2018, 12:34
I would contend that this same hiker would have been able to "make do" with a non-ADA compliant privy and/or shelter.
The stainless steel handrails in GSMNP privies crack me up. Anyone who is able to get to one of those can use the privy without handrails.
Which makes you wonder why the shelters are not shutdown by the same health department that requires bald chefs to wear hair nets while cooking.
Traffic Jam
08-15-2018, 12:41
Hikers with spina bifida, paralysis, etc, and are being carried need extra room in toilets and need hand rails.
I'm all for a strategically-placed privy. Better a single large hole filled with doo-doo, which is covered over when full, than five thousand little holes, dug God-knows-where, and with toilet paper flowers strewn about....
HooKooDooKu
08-15-2018, 14:53
I'm all for a strategically-placed privy. Better a single large hole filled with doo-doo, which is covered over when full
That's a latrine...
The GSMNP uses Moldering (Composting) Privies. There's no "hole in the ground".
While not a perfect description, I would describe a moldering privy like this:
Build a platform built about 4 feet off the ground with the perimeter below the privy lined with chicken wire (keeps the stack of poop in place and keeps wild animals out).
The platform has three "stations", and the seat is rotated from station to station as the space under the seat fills with poop/tp/mulch.
Start with the seat in Station 1. As Station 1 gets full, move the seat to Station 2.
When Station 2 gets full, move the seat to Station 3 and spread what remains of the the now composted waste from Station 1 around the area like fertilizer.
Continue the process moving the seat back to Station 1 and spreading around the composted waste from prior stations.
There's never a hole dug nor a hole that gets filled.
The combination of open-air design and composting process keeps the smell down.
Since this is the mountains, the platform is usually build on the side of a hill where a small bridge allows you to walk from ground level to the platform.
MuddyWaters
08-15-2018, 14:56
I'm all for a strategically-placed privy. Better a single large hole filled with doo-doo, which is covered over when full, than five thousand little holes, dug God-knows-where, and with toilet paper flowers strewn about....
Those little holes, properly mixed with damp microorganism containg topsoil, are totally gone in days.
Unlike a big cesspool
And to be quite honest, in some places, if you just crap on surface, hogs will eat it overnight. I observed this on my hunting lease..... Probably work for gsmnp too.
HooKooDooKu
08-15-2018, 15:06
And to be quite honest, in some places, if you just crap on surface, hogs will eat it overnight. I observed this on my hunting lease..... Probably work for gsmnp too.
Way too many visitors to GSMNP, and that's quick way to spread pathogens... (there's already enough problems getting people to properly bury their waste... we DO NOT need people to just start pooping on the ground and leave it there).
DuneElliot
08-15-2018, 15:51
Those little holes, properly mixed with damp microorganism containg topsoil, are totally gone in days.
Making poop soup...I was looking for that article the other day.
Way too many visitors to GSMNP, and that's quick way to spread pathogens... (there's already enough problems getting people to properly bury their waste... we DO NOT need people to just start pooping on the ground and leave it there).
A good example of this is Russell field shelter...
it doesn't (or at least it didn't the last time I was up there about 6 years ago) have a privy and the surrounding area is just a mine field of poop and toilet paper..
Many years ago there was a movement to make every mile of the AT, ADA compliant. Go figure.
its not so much ADA compliance as it is making the AT comply with Federal laws as in multiple laws dealing with accessibility. this is a legal requirement that is not going away - here is a document from the ATC on the subject
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/docs/appalachian-trail-club-leaders/2011/04/14/increasing-opportunities-for-access-on-the-appalachian-trail_a-design-guide.pdf
the accessibility laws have brought about changes in privy and in lean-to design and even design of AMC huts in NH.
changes in lean-to design
https://journeys.appalachiantrail.org/issue/spring-2018/nahmakanta-stream-lean-to-encourages-sustainable-camping/
changes in privy design including the accessibility required by law
https://www.appalachiantrail.org/docs/trail-maintainers-corner/backcountry-sanitation-manual-2-0-august-2014.pdf?sfvrsn=6322f827_6
Galehead hut accessibility
https://www.nytimes.com/2000/08/17/us/for-these-trailblazers-wheelchairs-matter.html
i know everybody likes to laugh at the idea of a wheelchair accessible privy on the AT but this is out of the control of the local trail clubs its federal law and as such must be followed. morally its the right thing to do, not everybody is so lucky in health as most of us here.
and before you say it no they are not going to pave the trail...
Gorgiewave
08-15-2018, 18:17
What we need in this world is a marked-off area, say in Siberia or the Nevada Desert, where there are no laws, no government and no rules. Anybody can go, anybody is welcome back into society (if they obey the law) but in that area no government will interfere in any way. That way privies in the back country, socialism, anarchism, white supremacy, Islamism, Trumpism, liberalism and modern art can have a good, honest-to-God battle royale, no holds barred and see what happens. It'd be curious to see what would happen.
Been done. Purge, etc.
You can get the movies from Amazon.
I’ll stick to the places that I’ve found over the years. Much tamer.
Wayne
Traveler
08-16-2018, 05:53
What we need in this world is a marked-off area, say in Siberia or the Nevada Desert, where there are no laws, no government and no rules. Anybody can go, anybody is welcome back into society (if they obey the law) but in that area no government will interfere in any way. That way privies in the back country, socialism, anarchism, white supremacy, Islamism, Trumpism, liberalism and modern art can have a good, honest-to-God battle royale, no holds barred and see what happens. It'd be curious to see what would happen.
We have those set aside areas in the US, we call them Designated Wilderness areas. To the balance of your suggestions, I doubt anarchy will solve much given its history, but good luck with that~
[QUOTE=HooKooDooKu;2219430]"Nice idea, but does not belong in the back country and should not be maintained by volunteers!!!"
Yeah, pretty ignorant graffiti. However, as one who abhors concentrated camping, maybe that's what the author was lashing out at. On my through hike two years ago I slept in or near shelters twice. I never used one of those composting toilets. From those two shelter experiences, I considered anywhere within a 200 meter radius of a shelter to be contaminated and unhealthy. Stealth camping, that's where it's at. Fire away.
HooKooDooKu
08-18-2018, 16:02
Stealth camping, that's where it's at. Fire away.
This graffiti was at a shelter compost toilet in GSMNP.
Stealth Camping is illegal in GSMNP as you are required to camp at designated campsites.
In the case of AT thru-hiker permits, you're required to camp at the shelters on the AT. IF the shelter is full, the AT thru-hiker can camp in the general vicinity of the shelter.
rmitchell
08-18-2018, 18:24
As far as I know---the privies are maintained by both ridge runners and volunteers....
Yes. The privies are built by the Smoky Mountain Hiking Club who maintain them with help from the ridge runners.
I think there were two ridge runners this season.
Five Tango
08-19-2018, 10:14
Yes. The privies are built by the Smoky Mountain Hiking Club who maintain them with help from the ridge runners.
I think there were two ridge runners this season.
I have always wondered how they collect and transport all that waste and what they do with it? Anybody know how they handle the job?(slight pun intended,sorry...)
We all all indebted to those who do the task and never get any credit or thanks-SO THANKS GUYS!
I have always wondered how they collect and transport all that waste and what they do with it? Anybody know how they handle the job?(slight pun intended,sorry...)
We all all indebted to those who do the task and never get any credit or thanks-SO THANKS GUYS!
https://www.appalachiantrail.org/docs/trail-maintainers-corner/backcountry-sanitation-manual-2-0-august-2014.pdf?sfvrsn=6322f827_6
rmitchell
08-20-2018, 10:52
https://www.appalachiantrail.org/docs/trail-maintainers-corner/backcountry-sanitation-manual-2-0-august-2014.pdf?sfvrsn=6322f827_6
Lot of poop on poop (329 pages!).
Hikes in Rain
08-20-2018, 20:43
Nice find! The (mostly but still not quite) retired environmental engineer in me is intrigued! Thanks, D2maine.
Five Tango
08-21-2018, 14:42
https://www.appalachiantrail.org/docs/trail-maintainers-corner/backcountry-sanitation-manual-2-0-august-2014.pdf?sfvrsn=6322f827_6
Thanks for the info.My hat is off to all trail maintainers.Salute.
What most people do not realize is that a millenial is not as young as they think. Millenials are born between the 1980s and early 2003s. That would make some of them in the mid 30s. I do not see them doing all of the graffiti. Just saying.