Footprints are a Complete Waste of Money, Space, and Weight

[Bansko]

Unless, of course, your shelter has no floor. If it does have a floor, there is absolutely no need for a footprint.

Discuss.

[TheCheek]

I don't expect much of a discussion when almost everyone will agree with you.

As for money, the idea is to save your tent floor if you're frequently setting up on rugged surfaces. So if you get a cheap cut of tyvek there is potential money savings. It also can help as an additional moisture barrier depending on the material.

[Traveler]

Some people use footprints, some don't. Some people prefer not to filter and carry water, some do. It's not about right or wrong (or corporate avarice), its about what works for the individual.

I found several "needs" for a footprint; increases the capability of the tent (as it ages) to be water resistant during multi-day rain events, it reduces the opportunity for abrasion of the tent floor and milling away of moisture protection, reduces the potential of sharp things penetrating the tent floor, and protection from general wear and tear. I have also used it as a fly, a fairy clean place to dry gear and get sorted out after a deluge.

[DownYonder]

Inexpensive, keeps bottom of tent clean & dry, helps prolong life of tent, nice place to role up a clean tent, us it for lunch breaks if ground is wet. All for a weight penalty of 2.5oz (1 person tent). If 2.5oz is too much weight, I will just cut back on snacks for a few days and loose 4x that amount. YMMV

[Old Hillwalker]

MY current tent is priced at $555.00 Too much of an investment to not protect it with a footprint.

[T-Rx]

I always use a footprint to help protect my expensive tent as well as provide some additional waterproofing. It’s a personal decision and for me, this is a piece of equipment well worth the few extra ounces.

[cmoulder]

This coming from a fairly devout ULer... you might reconsider after tenting a few nights on granite with a DCF shelter. :-?

Blanket pronunciations are rarely appropriate.

[colorado_rob]

Unless, of course, your shelter has no floor. If it does have a floor, there is absolutely no need for a footprint.

Discuss. Agree. Never used one, never had a floor fail in any way. I have very expensive tents (zpacks duplex, maybe 50+ nights, zero sign of wear, an older BA copper spur, very old BA fly creek with 150+ nights, etc). Waste of money and weight. If you absolutely must use one, at least use Polycryo, cheap and about the lightest material possible (maybe 1.5 oz for average tent).

[Slo-go'en]

I guess it depends on where you spend most of your time hiking/camping. On the AT where the ground is often wet or muddy, a footprint not only keeps the bottom of the tent cleaner, it helps prevent water from speeping in from presure points.

[daddytwosticks]

With the manufacturer's tent footprint, I am able to set up my freestanding MSR Hubba fly first in the rain. Once the fly is set up w/footprint, I can then set up the body of the tent without the inside getting soaked. Same principle for take down in the rain.

[Puddlefish]

True for my situation. My tent floor is rock solid, I've camped on a raspberry cane with no damage. I wouldn't want to presume the same thing for a tent that I haven't owned or used.

[Venchka]

With the manufacturer's tent footprint, I am able to set up my freestanding MSR Hubba fly first in the rain. Once the fly is set up w/footprint, I can then set up the body of the tent without the inside getting soaked. Same principle for take down in the rain.
I can’t speak for the Hubba, but my Hubba Hubba NX doesn’t require the heavy and expensive factory footprint to set up the fly alone. That was the deciding factor in making my purchase decision.
The same is true for my TarpTent StratoSpire 1. I’ve used the fly alone more often than the inner + fly.
Wayne

[capehiker]

I guess it depends on where you spend most of your time hiking/camping. On the AT where the ground is often wet or muddy, a footprint not only keeps the bottom of the tent cleaner, it helps prevent water from speeping in from presure points.

Agree. I can think of a stretch between Franklin and NOC in 2017 of several days of rain where my Nemo Hornet was wetting out in the floor. Got to the outfitter and bought the last footprint.

[fiddlehead]

I just hiked in Taiwan with some friends 2 weeks ago.
They all had double wall tents and they ALL had a footprint for the tent.
They also ALL had stainless steel cups hanging off their packs with a big carabiner.
Both silly IMO.
They were amazed at the lightness of my20 lb pack. (with food) (there's were ALL over 40)
But when they saw my tarptent with a thin plastic for my groundcloth, they shook their heads and went into their palaces.
You have to carry those luxuries.
How heavy do you want your pack?
That's what it really comes down to isn't it?

[Slo-go'en]

It also depends on what the tent floor is made of. If it's flimsy silnylon, you really want a ground cloth. Granted, factory foot prints are expensive and heavy, but Tyvek is cheap and reasonably lightweight.

[garlic08]

I agree with the OP. I've hiked the Triple Crown plus lots of alphabet soup (CT, AZT, PNT, WT) using a Tarptent with silnylon floor and no ground sheet. I'm on my second Tarptent in fifteen years and have never had a floor problem, despite the rigors of the Sonoran, Chihuahua, and Colorado deserts and lots of rocky tundra. The one time I got wet from water seeping through the floor was a site selection error, never repeated.

The first Tarptent finally started to fail at the guy line attachment points. The floor was almost pristine. Tarptent's website mentions their repair shop virtually never sees a tent come in for floor work.

In my early tenting experience, back when I paid more attention to conventional wisdom, a groundsheet was just one more wet thing to pack up and try to dry later on.

[blw2]

I'm another that sees value...for all the obvious reasons. Perhaps not every time, but sometimes.... for me most of the time.

My background is mostly tailgate camping and short distance stuff, not usually in over demanding tent ripping terrain... for me I mostly used something to keep the tent cleaner and dry when packing up in the AM...and as a sacrificial lamb for the potential rock or whatever. I find the groundsheet easier to shake or sweep clean, or to drape over a bush to dry a bit while I go ahead and fold up the tent & pack up the other stuff

As I'm kitting out a lighter pack and learning though, I totally get the premise that it's unseeded weight often... and I think the factory high dollar ones could easily be argued as a waste of $.... if it's not a component of a fly-only type free standing system.

[colorado_rob]

I agree with the OP. I've hiked the Triple Crown plus lots of alphabet soup (CT, AZT, PNT, WT) using a Tarptent with silnylon floor and no ground sheet. I'm on my second Tarptent in fifteen years and have never had a floor problem, despite the rigors of the Sonoran, Chihuahua, and Colorado deserts and lots of rocky tundra... It's fairly obvious this boils down to experience... if one has always carried and used a ground sheet, he/she feels good about them, thinking they "work", whereas only those who have done extensive time completely without one with no bad effects realizes they are completely unnecessary. Not a make or break thing, but I might suggest those that do use these extra sheets trying without for a while.

[Harrison Bergeron]

Nonsense. It's much easier to wipe down a 1oz sheet of polycro than the bottom of your tent. And if you're a gram weenie, consider this -- the weight of the water you remove is probably twice the weight of the footprint. And the weight of the water your tent's floor absorbs without a footprint is probably twice that.

My polycro footprint can be tucked into a ziplock and stored in my pack, while the rag I used to dry it will be dry in half an hour hanging from the back. My perfectly dry tent can be stowed in the bottom compartment of my pack without getting anything else wet. Your tent without the footprint will still be a sloppy mess when you pull it out the next night.

There are places where a footprint isn't necessary. The AT isn't one of them.

[colorado_rob]

Nonsense. It's much easier to wipe down a 1oz sheet of polycro than the bottom of your tent. And if you're a gram weenie, consider this -- the weight of the water you remove is probably twice the weight of the footprint. And the weight of the water your tent's floor absorbs without a footprint is probably twice that.

My polycro footprint can be tucked into a ziplock and stored in my pack, while the rag I used to dry it will be dry in half an hour hanging from the back. My perfectly dry tent can be stowed in the bottom compartment of my pack without getting anything else wet. Your tent without the footprint will still be a sloppy mess when you pull it out the next night.

There are places where a footprint isn't necessary. The AT isn't one of them.Try getting a decent, modern tent with a Cuben (DCF) floor. No water absorption at all. But yeah, if you Must carry a footprint, let it at least be polycryo.

[Venchka]

Try getting a decent, modern tent with a Cuben (DCF) floor. No water absorption at all. But yeah, if you Must carry a footprint, let it at least be polycryo.
#GoFundMyDCFTent.
Or how about this:
1.5 mil heat shrink window film 3’x7’.
20 ounce TarpTent StratoSpire 1 rain fly.
Enough change from a DCF tent to get me to Wyoming and back.
One solution rarely fits all.
It’s all good folks! Run what you brung. Just get outside.
Wayne

[TexasBob]

Agree. Never used one .............

So you never used one. That doesn't exactly make you an expert on the utility of a ground sheet. As others have said they have many uses other than protecting the bottom of your tent. Try it sometime and maybe you will like it or not but at least then you will have a fully informed opinion.

[nsherry61]

Not that this thread needs another 2 cents from another hiker, but what the hell, it's better than watching the TV show my wife is watching right now.

I pretty much always use a footprint when camping in front-country and never in the back country. It's a weight weeny thing.

I rarely use my tents as I vastly prefer my tarps. But, that being said, I've worn out two tents in my life.

My 40 year old Frostline tent, although still used, has a problem with the PU peeling off the inside of the fly, a hole in the bug net, and a hole chewed in the floor by some vermin. Before the vermine hole, about 10 years ago, which would be easily fixable if I cared any more, the tent has kept me reasonably dry pitched in a puddle.

My Canadian Mountain Equipment Coop expedition tent (8 lbs and able to withstand hurricanes!) is about 22 years old. It has had zipper faileur on both doors in the first few years (now replaced and failing again). None of the fabric shows any significant wear or deterioration. The floor has never been waterproof to the point of being able to sit in a puddle and stay completely dry. Sitting on the floor in snow will cause a damp spot to appear. Using a footprint doesn't help all that much as there is never all that much moisture in the tent, and even with a footprint, some seems to inevitably get in.

My less than 10 year old REI Quarterdome and BA Copper Spur and BA Fly Creek are all fully functioning and not leaking.

[Tipi Walter]

So you never used one. That doesn't exactly make you an expert on the utility of a ground sheet. As others have said they have many uses other than protecting the bottom of your tent. Try it sometime and maybe you will like it or not but at least then you will have a fully informed opinion.

So true. It's like me criticizing hammocks even though I've never once carried one or slept in one. The true experts on ground sheets have used them in all configurations---as a tarp floor, as a second tent floor, as an extra thorn barrier, as an emergency pack poncho when caught in a rainstorm deluge, as a tent fly UV protector during sunny days in camp, etc.



kept me reasonably dry pitched in a puddle.

The floor has never been waterproof to the point of being able to sit in a puddle and stay completely dry. Sitting on the floor in snow will cause a damp spot to appear.


The biggest need for a "second tent floor" ground cloth in my opinion is to add a waterproof layer to a low hydrostatic tent floor. How do you know you have a low hydrostatic tent floor?

Make a puddle in the backyard grass with a garden hose and unzip your tent place your tent floor on top of the puddle. Now sit on the floor with your butt for 5 minutes and see if any water seeps thru. If so, the tent floor leaks or sponges up water thru the fabric weave. This will happen in the right conditions---heavy rainstorms or atop wet slushy snow. A decent ground cloth should also pass this test---do it separately from the tent test.

I have found certain fabrics to work with this pressure test while others fail miserably.

On almost every trip I take I get into a storm which produces sufficient rain to cause pooling ground water under the tent---and so the tent floor must not let this water inside with body weight pressure.

Some people will say, "Use better site selection!" but this is usually impossible in the Southeast mountains where I backpack. Plus, on many rugged and difficult trails in the TN/NC mountains you'll be lucky to find a level or almost level spot for miles around---and this is the spot you must use. With enough rain pouring off a tent fly, it will pool under the tent temporarily. There's a reason it's called a "bathtub floor".

[colorado_rob]

So you never used one. That doesn't exactly make you an expert on the utility of a ground sheet. As others have said they have many uses other than protecting the bottom of your tent. Try it sometime and maybe you will like it or not but at least then you will have a fully informed opinion. What should I do: start carrying a useless item for a few years, never use it, so that I could discuss the pros and cons of carrying this item?

I don't know, I think my opinion is completely valid on this particular thread, the title of which is "Footprints are a Complete Waste of Money, Space, and Weight" even though I'm only a one-sided expert.... Since I've never, ever needed one in something on the order of a thousand plus night sleeping in a tent, why would not I be informed as to this opinion? The OP said, "discuss". I'm discussing.

I don't consider the opinion of those folks who have never NOT had one to be "uninformed", though, again, I would hope sometime those who do carry unnecessary weight would try not doing it. I bet after trying not using a footprint for a while, many folks would finally get over them.

[TexasBob]

What should I do: start carrying a useless item for a few years, never use it, so that I could discuss the pros and cons of carrying this item?.............

How about not acting like an expert on something you have no experience with?

[SWODaddy]

Try getting a decent, modern tent with a Cuben (DCF) floor. No water absorption at all.

Might be cheaper to hire a sherpa to carry your tent or get married so your partner can split the load.

[nsherry61]

Might be cheaper to hire a sherpa to carry your tent or get married so your partner can split the load.
Say what?!

Sharing the load with my wife means I have to add 10 lbs to my solo base weight. Yeah, she carries half, but half of twice as much stuff!! Heck, she even wants us to carry one of those damn footprints. Yuck! Don't do it. You'll regret it!

[colorado_rob]

Might be cheaper to hire a sherpa to carry your tent or get married so your partner can split the load. Well, already married and we BP together all the time, and we do share the load. But yeah, DCF tents ain't cheap...


How about not acting like an expert on something you have no experience with? Yikes! Sorry I got under your skin there TB. Peace?

[TexasBob]

..........Yikes! Sorry I got under your skin there TB. Peace?

It is all good. I guess if we were sitting around a campfire and talking we would be friends and be enjoying the great outdoors together. After all that is what is all about.

[lonehiker]

I used a ground sheet for probably 22-23 (maybe more) years. I have not used one for the last, oh, 6-7 years. They are not necessary. I have LW to thank for my change in opinion on this matter.

[blw2]

a lot of mention of polycro earlier.... I've been wondering....that stuff is very thin as I understand it. Seems like it wouldn't do much good with regard to some of the reasons given for ground sheets....protection from sharp objects, abrasion, setting up on bare solid granite ....
I get it for water resistance, keeping dirt off, but no so much for the other stuff.

Is it good enough to use in some of these applications.... or use as a barrier under an inflatable pad on a splintery shelter floor, with popped up nail heads and such?

But then as I write this and think it through, I suppose if the premise is that it's not necessary for any of these reasons then I guess it makes sense to use it as a bonus to cover some of the reasons for using one//namely the dirt and water.

[Venchka]

If you prowl the internet you’ll find polycryo, heat shrink window insulating film, in thicknesses from 0.6 mil to 1.5 mil. I bought a large piece of the 1.5 mil film from ACE hardware for $10 a couple years ago. It’s enough for several ground sheets for my Xtherm pad or my StratoSpire 1. The 1.5 mil film is sturdy.
Wayne

[Time Zone]

a lot of mention of polycro earlier.... I've been wondering....that stuff is very thin as I understand it. Seems like it wouldn't do much good with regard to some of the reasons given for ground sheets....protection from sharp objects, abrasion, setting up on bare solid granite ....
I get it for water resistance, keeping dirt off, but no so much for the other stuff.

Is it good enough to use in some of these applications.... or use as a barrier under an inflatable pad on a splintery shelter floor, with popped up nail heads and such?

But then as I write this and think it through, I suppose if the premise is that it's not necessary for any of these reasons then I guess it makes sense to use it as a bonus to cover some of the reasons for using one//namely the dirt and water.

On the contrary, it's pretty good for moderately sharp objects and abrasion. Testing a piece of scrap out in my kitchen I found that it really does resist puncturing, say, with a fork. But a sharp steak knife will readily pierce it, and once pierced, the tear will run very easily to the edge. Kind of like a mylar chip bag (most recent example here - the inner bag for a box of Cheese Nips - once you get a tear in the body you should just toss the packaging and put the remaining chips/crackers in a rigid plastic storage container).

Anyway they're so inexpensive you should grab a small sheet and test it out for yourself. I think at my local big box hardware store, you can get one that is 3.5' x 5' for under $2. Not perfect size for a footprint, but it's a cheap way to test it out. And frankly, it may be sufficiently long for a footprint, in that there's probably considerably less abrasion force at the foot end of your tent. Width, you may need to trim, depending. Use a marker and cut on the inside of your line so that your tent's floor covers it completely. You don't want water to run off the fly and collect on the topside of the footprint, for then it'll channel the water right under your tent, instead of running off to the ground.


Don't know about granite.

[lonehiker]

If you do opt to use a groundsheet you should rethink your size requirements. Most say just a few inches smaller than your tent. But if you think about it you probably only need something about the size of your sleeping mat as this is where most of the pressure/use is applied to your tent flooring. Perhaps a bit wider to account for your entryway? But you don't need something under your entire tent floor.

[Venchka]

If you prowl the internet you’ll find polycryo, heat shrink window insulating film, in thicknesses from 0.6 mil to 1.5 mil. I bought a large piece of the 1.5 mil film from ACE hardware for $10 a couple years ago. It’s enough for several ground sheets for my Xtherm pad or my StratoSpire 1. The 1.5 mil film is sturdy.
Wayne
I found the box of Polycryo.
ACE Hardware stock #59903
1.5 mil x 84” x 110”
Plus!
1/2” x 34’ double stick tape.
Wayne

[Harrison Bergeron]

Even if I was willing to double the cost of my Lightheart for a cuben tent just to save 10 oz, I'd still carry the footprint. I'd just figure that the convenience of wiping down my 1oz scrap of polycro instead of a tent was even less of a burden.

[Franco]

I never had any problem with snow on any tent whatsoever, in Melbourne.
(it does not snow here..)
Up in the Alps the situation is different...
The point here is that, as always, it depends.
My advice is : if you can walk barefooted where you intend to pitch, you don't need one.
The converse is also true (in my opinion)
Because I am careful in finding the right location , I don't use one however there are places where the ground is too rough on standard tent floors.

[MuddyWaters]

Only thing footprints are, is heavy and expensive for what offer to a hiker.

They have positive attributes:
Protect floor, which is difficult to replace (or impracticle)
Reduce internal condensation by reducing ground moisture diffusion.

They are perfect for car campers.

[NY HIKER 50]

OK everyone, here's my dollars worth. I always used just a painters plastic drop cloth under my tent. It keeps the bottom free from dirt and dampness and you just pick up a clean tent and stuff it. No need for a special footprint. Just make sure that it's cut slightly smaller than the floor. Is everyone rich? why all this talk about expensive footprints. At the end of the trip just toss it.

[kestral]

window film, polycro footprint for me. very light weight, I keep it on outside pocket for a dry sit pad, when I (rarely) stay in shelter i use it as a ground sheet. was planning to make a tarp with the sheet, but I got lazy. once was covered in mud, I rinsed it in a stream- tough to do that with your tent floor.

[Deacon]

How about a piece of polycro underneath your footprint to keep the footprint clean!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Ethesis]

If you prowl the internet you’ll find polycryo, heat shrink window insulating film, in thicknesses from 0.6 mil to 1.5 mil. I bought a large piece of the 1.5 mil film from ACE hardware for $10 a couple years ago. It’s enough for several ground sheets for my Xtherm pad or my StratoSpire 1. The 1.5 mil film is sturdy.
Wayne

Stops splinters in shelter floors. :).

[Time Zone]

How about a piece of polycro underneath your footprint to keep the footprint clean!

But then what keeps that piece of polycryo clean?
Like turtles, it's footprints all the way down.