Parking/AMC shuttles in NH

[icebeard]

Wondering about parking at Pinkham and Crawford notches, specifically security, proximity to the trail, and proximity to the AMC shuttle buses. I've already looked up info on these spots, but would love to hear firsthand knowledge of these spots/shuttles. Thanks!

[Slo-go'en]

Shouldn't be an issue. I parked at the AT trailhead in Crawford overnight with no problem. Parking at Pinkham can be an issue on weekends, their lot often fills up early and you have to use the auxiliary lot and hope that isn't full too. Pinkham is on the trail, the AT passes right through the parking lot.

There are actually two places you can park at Crawford. One is at the highland center which would be the most secure, the other is at the actual AT trailhead, which only has room for half a dozen cars. You can get the shuttle at either location.

Sounds like you want to do the traverse from Crawford to Pinkham or visa versa. There are several was to get to Mizpah hut and Nauman tent site. The "easy" route is up the Crawford path, a little more difficult is the Webster-Jackson trail. Both of these are accessed from the Highland center. The difficult route is the AT up Webster cliffs, which can be intimidating as it is very exposed and your right on the edge of the cliff. Not a good place to be if it's windy or raining.

[Slo-go'en]

Oh forgot to say if you park at the Highland center but want to go up the AT route, you still pay $24 to be shuttled 3 miles. Do not attempt to walk the road.

Due to the way the shuttle schedule works, it's probably best to hike SOBO from Pinkham and take the afternoon shuttle back from Crawford.

[peakbagger]

Pinkham is probably the safest parking lot in the area with the exception of parking across from the town hall in Gorham (which has cops driving by it 24/7 as the police station is in the town hall). Pinkham has a security guard at night that makes rounds on occasion. The parking at Crawford Notch is actually 4 lots, there are generally no issues with security in any one of them .

Crawford Notch is somewhere a lot of folks get confused. The AMC Highland Center and its associated parking lots are located just north of the Notch. The AT does not run through this area yet it is a popular spot to start a hike. The actual AT crosses the south end of the notch just about 4 very steep miles down RT 302. The AT is the Ethan Pond Trail on the West side of the highway and the Webster Cliff Trail to the east. The AMC shuttle goes to both the Highland Center and Webster Cliff.

The upper parking lots near the Highland Center are all fairly busy with frequent traffic. The actual Highland Center lot is signed for AMC Highland Center guests only. I am not aware if they enforce the sign. There is large lot for the Crawford Path across the street a short distance up Mt Clinton road. That lot is screened with trees from the road and the least visible. There is smaller lot near the old train station south of the Highland Center that is very visible but off RT 302. The last lot is south of there on the west side of RT302. Its get a lot of traffic pulling in and out. The actual parking at Webster Ciff/Ethan Pond crossing is not much, just a wide spot off RT 302. It has route 302 traffic but no local traffic. Its probably the sketchiest of the lots from a break in point of view (but not known for break ins)

I live locally and do not use the AMC shuttles. The key thing to realize is they are predominantly for hut guests and they do fill up. They are not full size buses. You can make reservations in advance and may want to do so or take your chances as a walk on. They frequently fill up on weekends. Read the schedules here https://www.outdoors.org/lodging-camping/lodging-shuttle. Their schedule may not be convenient to you but they are to hut guests. There are local shuttle firms but they will be more expensive then the AMC.

[egilbe]

There was a bunch of construction equipment parked by the train station, filling up most of the lot Wednesday morning when we drove past to get to the Ethan Pond Trail head to pick up my GF's car parked there for five days. No issues with her car over that period. I can't wait for them to finish widening the Notch and remove that equipment.

[Slo-go'en]

If you spend your last night at either Osgood (going NOBO) or Nauman (going SOBO) you have enough time to get to the shuttle back around to where you started.

I used the shuttles twice this summer and found it to be convenient. Both times I was a walk on with no problem, but it was early summer and non-weekend.

[icebeard]

Thanks for all the good advice! Plan is to park at Pinkham since it appears to be the safest/most convenient parking. Shuttle to Liberty Springs parking to take AT Nobody back to Pinkham. Bail out plan (if necessary due to weather, time constraints, etc...) is to get off at Crawford and catch shuttle back to Pinkham. Looking truly forward to this trip!

[icebeard]

Correction! Nobo, not Nobody! Lol

[Slo-go'en]

Thanks for all the good advice! Plan is to park at Pinkham since it appears to be the safest/most convenient parking. Shuttle to Liberty Springs parking to take AT Nobody back to Pinkham. Bail out plan (if necessary due to weather, time constraints, etc...) is to get off at Crawford and catch shuttle back to Pinkham. Looking truly forward to this trip!

I took the shuttle from the AT trailhead in Crawford to Franconia. The only problem is you don't get there until nearly 11AM. I didn't get to Garfield until nearly dark - 8:30 PM - on one of the longest days of the year. I would suggest spending the first night at Liberty Spring campsite. That makes for a short day, but once past Liberty Spring there is no camping until you get to Garfield. The trail is all above tree line, very steep and difficult. Apparently there is "Stealth" camping at Garfield pond, but I couldn't find the sites. The climb up and over Garfield is a killer at the end of the day.

This is a difficult section logistically if your not using the huts. Designated camping sites are few and far between. There are very few stealth sites and they're not in convenient locations -if you can find them at all. Don't underestimate the difficulty of this stretch of trail and how soon it gets dark this time of year.

[icebeard]

I took the shuttle from the AT trailhead in Crawford to Franconia. The only problem is you don't get there until nearly 11AM. I didn't get to Garfield until nearly dark - 8:30 PM - on one of the longest days of the year. I would suggest spending the first night at Liberty Spring campsite. That makes for a short day, but once past Liberty Spring there is no camping until you get to Garfield. The trail is all above tree line, very steep and difficult. Apparently there is "Stealth" camping at Garfield pond, but I couldn't find the sites. The climb up and over Garfield is a killer at the end of the day.

This is a difficult section logistically if your not using the huts. Designated camping sites are few and far between. There are very few stealth sites and they're not in convenient locations -if you can find them at all. Don't underestimate the difficulty of this stretch of trail and how soon it gets dark this time of year.

Yeah, I've revised my game plan a bit. Was originally trying to avoid the huts, but like you stated it is difficult to plan realistic goals without incorporating them! With that being said here's my revised itinerary:
Day 1- Franconia notch to Greenleaf hut. 7.5
Day 2- Greenleaf hut to Guyot 9.4
Day 3- Guyot to Crawford notch 11.9
Day 4- Crawford notch to Lake of the Clouds Hut 11.1
Day 5- Lake to Pinkham 14.9 alternative Lake to Madison hut 7.1
Day 6- (if needed) Madison hut to Pinkham 7.8
Do these seem realistic?

[icebeard]

Or on Day 4 Crawford to mizpah hut 6.4
Day 5 Mizpah hut to The Perch 10.3
Day 6 The Perch to Pinkham 9.3

[Slo-go'en]

Lakes to Pinkham is a killer day. A 12-14 hour hike for most people. The only problem with Greenleaf is that is a LONG way down a steep a shoulder of Lafayette. 1.1 miles and 1000 feet down - and then of course back up in the morning. Looked to me like a real knee cruncher and some butt sliding to get there. Of course, there will be a fair amount of that from Franconia to Pinkham just on the AT.

There is no camping at Crawford. You'd have to stay at the Highland center or Ethan Pond. It's a quick 2.5 miles to the notch from Ethan Pond.

Don't know when you plan on doing this hike, but if it's in the near future you'd better check for space at the huts. It will probably be quiet for the next couple of weeks and then get booked solid for when the colors usually come out in late September.

[egilbe]

I saw a few stealth spots between Lafayette and Garfield this past week. One at the base of Lafayette had a little spring or seep next to it.

[tdoczi]

Yeah, I've revised my game plan a bit. Was originally trying to avoid the huts, but like you stated it is difficult to plan realistic goals without incorporating them! With that being said here's my revised itinerary:
Day 1- Franconia notch to Greenleaf hut. 7.5
Day 2- Greenleaf hut to Guyot 9.4
Day 3- Guyot to Crawford notch 11.9
Day 4- Crawford notch to Lake of the Clouds Hut 11.1
Day 5- Lake to Pinkham 14.9 alternative Lake to Madison hut 7.1
Day 6- (if needed) Madison hut to Pinkham 7.8
Do these seem realistic?
if you seriously think you can do lakes to pinkham notch (it can be done, but maybe not everyone would enjoy doing it) then just do franconia notch to galehead and dont waste effort and time going down to greenleaf

[tdoczi]

if you seriously think you can do lakes to pinkham notch (it can be done, but maybe not everyone would enjoy doing it) then just do franconia notch to galehead and dont waste effort and time going down to greenleaf

or franconia notch to garfield campsite. memory is a bit hazy and ive never done it personally but garfield campsite to crawford notch is probably possible, mostly because zealand falls hut to the notch is shockingly easy compared to all the other terrain around it.

[somers515]

Every time I visit the Whites I have to reread the regulations for camping there. If you plan on doing any camping outside of designated sites I think this pdf is helpful. If there is a more current version please someone let me know.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5363715.pdf

[peakbagger]

That is the most recent. The key thing to realize is that whoever developed it either intentionally or inadvertently mixed the voluntary Leave no Trace recommendations with actual WMNF regulations. Even though "rules" are mentioned on the second page, the adjacent Leave No Trace section are not rules, they are recommendations. The best approach is if you want to know the rules skip the second page and go direct to the 3rd page.

Note the FS has been known to post frequently used/overused sites as closed to camping, they are not listed anywhere I have found. The section of ridgeline just outside the Liberty Springs RUA seems to be a popular place for this to happen.

[egilbe]

That is the most recent. The key thing to realize is that whoever developed it either intentionally or inadvertently mixed the voluntary Leave no Trace recommendations with actual WMNF regulations. Even though "rules" are mentioned on the second page, the adjacent Leave No Trace section are not rules, they are recommendations. The best approach is if you want to know the rules skip the second page and go direct to the 3rd page.

Note the FS has been known to post frequently used/overused sites as closed to camping, they are not listed anywhere I have found. The section of ridgeline just outside the Liberty Springs RUA seems to be a popular place for this to happen.

is that why all the FPA notices seem to be backwards? They say you are entering one, when it should be leaving? We were a long ways down Liberty Springs trail towards the parking lot, but still a couple miles from the trail head, when we started seeing entering FPA signs. From what I can see, through-hikers tend to ignore those signs, anyway.

[somers515]

That is the most recent. The key thing to realize is that whoever developed it either intentionally or inadvertently mixed the voluntary Leave no Trace recommendations with actual WMNF regulations. Even though "rules" are mentioned on the second page, the adjacent Leave No Trace section are not rules, they are recommendations. The best approach is if you want to know the rules skip the second page and go direct to the 3rd page. . . .

Thanks peakbagger! I absolutely attempt to follow the WMNF regulations and I also try to follow the LNT recommendations too. As anyone who reads the pdf I linked can tell, it's not that easy sometimes and I have sympathy for anyone who honestly tries to follow the regulations and the recommendations but inadvertently messes up.

[peakbagger]

The issue with the backcountry regulations is the WMNF rarely if ever has backcountry rangers enforcing them. The budgets are tight and staffing is low. Generally a camper that sets up late and gets going early without building a fire pit is highly unlikely to get tagged. The folks who are taking a risk are the ones that set up long term camp for a couple of days in a RUA. Folks do get tagged on occasion along the Lincoln Woods trail and the renamed section past Franconia Falls (now called Bondcliff trail). I have also heard of occasional enforcement near Liberty Springs. Most of the huts and campsite along the AT in the whites have areas that they will unofficially direct hikers to when overfull.

It come down to resources versus impact. There used to be enforcement on Jefferson Notch road for road side campsites. When the state repaired the road after severe washouts, they opened up more pull offs and these are all getting used and "improved", the ground is bare and the browse line around the sites is expanding. I would suggest that enforcement is easier and far more effective in reducing impact dealing with road side campsites than backcountry overnighters.

[Slo-go'en]

Fortunately, the terrain is the limiting factor. There just aren't that many places where it's practical to set up a tent. They went to a lot of trouble to build tent platforms for a reason. The choices are extremely limited on the Franconia to Madison section, as most of it is above tree line or damn near it. Sure, there are a hand full of places where people have obviously camped, but these places aren't something you can plan on using.

The other thing to consider is this is a very active trail and these few sites are directly along the side of the trail. Otherwise, you'd never see them.

[peakbagger]

While hiking a few days ago I met someone who had camped at Sphinx Col (a fairly popular illegal campsite) above treeline. He was joking it was a popular spot as there were 9 tents there. It was a nice night but last night that I expect anyone camping there wishes they hadnt. There was an extended front that came through the area for about 3 hours with heavy rain and thrunderstorms running right over and near that area. The ridge is fairly narrow in this are and the campsites are basically at the top of the ridge. There are some boulders with vertical faces that might provide some partial protection but expect it was a scary night. There really is no escape from this spot. The ridge drops off steeply into dense nearly impenetrable fir with the trail down into the Great Gulf a low point on the ridge In the other direction its a wide stretch of rock with no cover until ending up in impenetrable fir.

Not only does camping above treeline potentially damage the plants and terrain that survive up there its downright dangerous in foul weather. All of the AMC huts have extensive lightning protection and grounding in place. Even though it may be mild when folks go to bed, storms can form to the west in the summer and rapidly move in anytime during the night.

[Kaptainkriz]

I'm planning on a few days in August to hike the AT North from Franconia Notch. The various websites referencing parking, permits, etc. are a bit confusing to me. Is overnight parking allowed at the various trail head lots, more specifically in Franconia Notch? If I intend to leave a vehicle for a few days in Franconia Notch (Trailhead near Bridle Path...), is there a parking permit required? A few years ago I parked at the Ammo trailhead and used a weekly pass, but now can't even find a link for those. Thanks. :)

[egilbe]

I'm planning on a few days in August to hike the AT North from Franconia Notch. The various websites referencing parking, permits, etc. are a bit confusing to me. Is overnight parking allowed at the various trail head lots, more specifically in Franconia Notch? If I intend to leave a vehicle for a few days in Franconia Notch (Trailhead near Bridle Path...), is there a parking permit required? A few years ago I parked at the Ammo trailhead and used a weekly pass, but now can't even find a link for those. Thanks. :)

State park parking at the trailheads. It's free, for now. I've parked my car there several times overnight. No issues. Weekends, those lots fill up early. Pretty empty by late afternoon.

[Slo-go'en]

It's nearly impossible to get a parking spot in Franconia notch these days. It doesn't matter what day of the week any more. Maybe if you showed up at 3 AM. People were illegally parking on the side of the highway, but the state has put a stop to that. There is now a shuttle bus from the Cannon Mountain ski area parking lot.

Consider parking at the AMC Highland Center at Crawford notch and taking the shuttle over to Franconia. If your only hiking for a few days, that's where you'll end up anyway. On second thought, you could park at the AT trail head at Crawford, as the shuttle will pick you up there. Then you don't have to get back to the Highland center to get your car, which is 3 miles away. That's what I did when I did that section.

While it's possible to hike from Franconia to Crawford in two really long and hard days, doing it in 3 or even 4 makes it a more pleasant and less strenuous hike and you can spend time on the summits to enjoy the view, or get to shelter before the thunderstorms roll in.

[peakbagger]

FYI, the AT doesnt leave Franconia Notch via the Lafayette Place parking lots (which are perpetually full). The AT crosses the Notch under a bridge with no vehicle access to it. There is designated AT lot just north of the Flume attraction lot on RT3 off an exit off the parkway. Even that lot fills up, albeit far less oftern and the state will not allow overnight parking in the Flume lot or along RT3. From this lot there is connector that runs through the woods and connects up with the AT. It then follows the bikepath through the woods before the Liberty Springs trail (the AT turns right into the wood. The turn off the bikepath is actually about half way between the AT lot and the next lot north on the parkway which is called the Basin. This lot is rarely full all day as its predominant visitor is day user to the Basin attraction that at best might take an hour to visit so there is lot of turnover.

The one "sure" thing is parking at the new hiker shuttle lot at the top of the notch. The state runs a shuttle from 8:30 AM on to ferry hikers and overnight guests of the two nearby AMC huts. There is cost for this service but is the only choice on good days.

[Kaptainkriz]

Thanks egible, Slo-go'en, and peakbagger for the detailed info! Our thoughts were on a late Sunday or a Monday to get up to Lonesome Lake from one of the closer parking areas and then work the AT North.That was my reasoning for trying to park up toward the Bridle Path. I like the Basin and have been there a number times, I did not realize that parking could be used overnight...would that also include the lot on the East side of the highway under the little tunnel? It actually was not clear to me whether any of the parking along that section was overnight. It sounds like I have a number of options (Liberty Springs Trailhead Parking Lot, Basin, Bridle Trail, many of which will be crowded. If it goes pear shaped, there is always the hiker shuttle lot. So are all the parking lots indicated here overnight? https://www.nhstateparks.org/visit/state-parks/franconia-notch-hiker-parking.aspx (https://whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php/55692-egilbe)

[peakbagger]

If its called a hiker parking lot it includes overnight. As the link mentions, changes my be coming at the Basin to limit hiker parking. That applies to both sides of the highway (there is tunnel like at Lafayette. There are couple of short term lots not mentioned (Boise Rock ?) and the former northbound Old Man Viewing area that are signed for day use only and do not have trailheads. There are not a lot of good options for Lonesome lake except the Lafayette place lots. Get there early in the AM or late at night and you will find parking.

[Kaptainkriz]

Thanks, this makes sense to me now.

If its called a hiker parking lot it includes overnight. As the link mentions, changes my be coming at the Basin to limit hiker parking. That applies to both sides of the highway (there is tunnel like at Lafayette. There are couple of short term lots not mentioned (Boise Rock ?) and the former northbound Old Man Viewing area that are signed for day use only and do not have trailheads. There are not a lot of good options for Lonesome lake except the Lafayette place lots. Get there early in the AM or late at night and you will find parking.

[Ben795]

I parked across from the Highland Center, at the Mt. Clinton Road lot, then walked across the street and got the AMC shuttle to Appalachia trailhead up in Gorham area, to do the Presidential Traverse, north to south, and when We came out two days later, ( one night at Madison Hut, second at Lakes of the clouds Hut) we were at our vehicle. Very convenient, in lieu of car spotting. If you are convenient to a REI, you can get a National Forest parking permit, around $30? It allows you to park at any trailhead parking within WMNF. I have often parked at trailheads late in the evening after a drive up from Boston area on a Friday night, slept in my truck Cap, to get up and get an early start on the trails. The parking pass is a deal, or you can honor pay at most trailhead kiosks. Couple bucks a night..

[Kaptainkriz]

Thanks again everyone. We ended up using the AT lot on RT3 just North of the Flume. There was open parking on a Sunday at 8AM...a few days later we emerged at Crawford. Worked great. Looking to possibly get back up there to continue to Pinkham. I'm assuming the parking at the highland center won't be an issue on a tues if I stay there.

[peakbagger]

AMC took down the sign for guests only at Highland Center but there is parking at the old railroad station.

[Kaptainkriz]

Thanks peakbagger!

AMC took down the sign for guests only at Highland Center but there is parking at the old railroad station.