Help me choose a hammock: REI Flash vs Hennessy Explorer Ultralite [Archive]

connolm

09-11-2018, 18:11

Hi Hammockers:

Seeking advice and expertise from the Whiteblaze Hammock crowd. Lots of information below. But the key question is:

REI Flash or Hennessy Explorer Ultralite Zip for a first timer?

Quick facts:

I'm 47 years old, 5'11" and 220 lbs. I'm a casual hiker and bikepacker. I'm a side sleeper.

I've been a tent camper with a SMD Lunar Solo and a Thermarest NeoAir Xlite pad.

-->> I'm committed to buying from REI because I want the ability to return the hammock if it isn't for me.

Hammocks for consideration:

Hennessy Explorer Ultralite Asym Zip (https://www.rei.com/product/849592/hennessy-hammock-explorer-ultralight-asym-zip-hammock) from REI for $279.95 at 2 lbs. 4 oz. I'd also add Snakeskins for another $20 - so $299.95 total.

REI Co-op Flash Air Hammock from REI (https://www.rei.com/product/127400/rei-co-op-flash-air-hammock) for $199.95 at 2 lbs. 13 oz.

More details:

My two most recent adventures have demonstrated significant drawbacks for tent camping. I experienced limited tenting sites on the AT over the Bigelow Preserve (https://www.maine.gov/dacf/parks/docs/maps/bigelowpreserve.pdf). There were almost no tent sites between shelters and then the tent sites were often platforms. While bikepacking the Green Mountain Gravel Growler, (http://www.bikepacking.com/routes/green-mountain-gravel-growler/) I wanted to stealth camp in the road-side woods on "non-tentable" terrain. On both adventures, I felt a hammock would have been preferable.

I naively assume that hammocking negates the need for the 12oz pad (although I also understand that under-insulation is required in cooler situations).

Hennessy Hammock
Pros:
2 lbs 4 oz. - lighter than Flash
Better color environment
Longer than Flash
Snakeskins!
Asym diagonal lie

Cons:
$100 more than Flash
Weight is reported to be mis-represented and likely closer to 2 lbs 8 oz. Then add Snakeskins.
Tarp is frequently cited as too small - especially for poor weather
Concerned about complexity

REI Flash
Pros:
Looks like a cool, completely integrated system designed from ground up
Pole spreader gives shape
more pockets and storage
Whoppie Slings
Pad straps

Cons:
Horrible color
Banana lie? (Can't tell)
Slightly heavier
Short (?)

Other thoughts?

*** I like the idea of the Flash. It simply looks cool. Worried about the banana lie and the shortness though. But in one review (https://youtu.be/jEz6H8Nb16c), the reviewer (https://youtu.be/jEz6H8Nb16c) said he would recommend it wholeheartedly above a Hennessy. And the $100 price difference is significant.

*** But I also like the idea of the Hennessy. It's got a longer history and is more prevalent in the "hammock-sphere." I wish it had Whoopie slings though. And the tarp has me concerned that I'll need to spend more soon.

Please - no flame war on REI. I'm committed to buying from them to increase my dividend and because of their return policy. I also know about underquilts and am not ready to deal with that yet. This will be used in nice weather to start.

Also note - I have a Moskito by Byer of Maine (https://www.amazon.com/Byer-of-Maine-Moskito-Hammock/dp/B00092M246). It's cheap and uncomfortable and I can't imagine ever getting a wink of sleep in it. The ropes tangle easily and the bug net is fragile like crepe paper. If neither the REI Flash nor the Hennessy are significantly better than the Moskito, let me know and I won't bother.

I'm eager to hear Whiteblaze's thoughts! Chime in and offer an opinion!

OCDave

09-11-2018, 19:08

If your concerned about not liking hammock camping, consider easing into it. Bugs are getting to be less an issue so go netless: https://dutchwaregear.com/product/11ft-netless/#fabric-layer-1

Use a standard blue construction tarp or what ever you have laying around. Use a sleeping pad and your favorite sleeping bag for insulation. While these are perfect, they offer as much opportunity for you to enjoy sleeping in a hammock as the REI available options with modest investment.

The Hennessy looks like it is only 108 inches long, WAY to short for a real camping option. REI option you listed doesn't provide a length, don't consider it if it is not atl least 10.5 feet long. You will not be able to lie flat otherwiase.

I strongly advise you to expand the hammocks you'll consider because those you've specified are far from your bst options.

OCDave

09-11-2018, 19:28

After looking closer at the options you have specified, I would like to increase the strength of my recommendation that you steer clear of both. Hammock camping is really a pleasant exp[erience with the right equipment. A 5'11" 220 poiund guy will never find comfort in euther of those hammocks.

DownYonder

09-11-2018, 19:35

Same boat as you....looking for my first hammock. Decided to put off my purchase for 3 weeks so I can attend a hang in my area. I think there are a couple coming up in MA, one in Goshen. https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/forumdisplay.php/112-Northeast

Feral Bill

09-11-2018, 19:37

I'd suggest broadening your search. There are several cottage hammock makers who have excellent products at good prices. I have a Dream Hammocks Raven that suits me perfectly. They are all custom so you can get just what you want for little or no more money.

Just Bill

09-11-2018, 20:24

Try the REI hammock.
Bit cheaper and likely to work better with a pad. (what you have)
A fly is an easy upgrade if that grows to be an issue.

cynically thinking... it's cheaper and it's REI either way. If that works for you... great. If not, you can always swap it out for the hennessy.

Inline is okay with a pad, especially as a side sleeper.

You can always research other stuff later and upgrade, but REI's advantage is always clear when getting going... you got a year.

FWIW- you will likely find the neo air bottoms out around 45* or so. Neo-air's just are not built for convection. I consider the Xtherm my bare minimum hammock pad outside summer. While it goes zero on the ground- figure around freezing. So you may be facing a pad and tarp upgrade overall with the flash... but it gets you hanging quick and easy.

FWIW part two. The reviewer you mentioned also owns one of my bridge hammocks. I don't think either REI model he tested made it too far beyond the review but I can't say for sure.

Get started... go from there.

u.w.

09-12-2018, 13:36

I would suggest (politely) that while you can get some good (if not great) info here on WB from the various hammock users (myself included) and makers... Perhaps instead, swing on over the Hammockforums dot net and start reading. There is a lot, Lot, LOT of info there (both sites share numerous members, and are, or where sisters sites). Heck, you might even be able to find someone close to where you live who has one, or multiple hammocks that they'd be willing to let you try out - not an uncommon occurrence at all actually -

u.w.

ant

09-12-2018, 14:01

Neither.

Go here: https://dutchwaregear.com/product/complete-intro-package/

scope

09-12-2018, 14:54

I used the Explorer in classic version for years with stock asym tarp with a pad, so I'm a little biased in leaning that direction. I've read a bit about the Flash and my impression is its an incredibly bad product. That would be unusual for REI, but it just seems like they had some particulars in mind and went about matching them no matter what. Why not the Quarter Dome hammock they make?

Using a zip version of the Explorer with the stock asym means you'll contantly be "ducking" in and out of the hammock. Personally, that would annoy the crap out of me. That's because the default HH setup is with the tarp attached on the suspension, as opposed to independently attached to the tree. You can always rig it that way, but 1) that requires purchasing additional lines/hardware to do that which seems to negate, and 2) if using the stock tarp, you're going to want it attached down low due to coverage. Works fine in low configuration, but you'll have zero usable space underneath it. I'd get the bigger hex tarp. I know its more weight, but you'll like it so much more in camp that it will be worth it. Porch mode is da bomb!

I think the HH is a better product, and would have more resale value if you don't return it, but want to upgrade at some point. Now, there are other options in the cottage market, but for the most part you're not going to get less than $300 without giving some things up, like a net. I go netless, but I presume you're not ready to do that. I completely get wanting the safety net of REI, but don't want to see you have a less than optimal experience and ditch hammocking altogether. If there was one site I would check, it would be WarbonnetOutdoors.com.

Now, about that naivety thing... these are your direct transfers for gear. You can do without underinsulation in a tent, too, but do you? Hammocks are cooler underneath so its almost always a necessity.

inner tent = hammock
tent rainfly = tarp
pad = underinsulation (either same pad or underquilt)
bag = top insulation (either same bag or top quilt)

scope

09-12-2018, 14:58

...You can always rig it that way, but 1) that requires purchasing additional lines/hardware to do that which seems to negate...

EDIT: seems to negate some of the integrated features of the product (though everyone mods their HH anyway)

scope

09-12-2018, 15:23

I'd get the bigger hex tarp...

EDIT, EDIT: I forgot at REI you're buying only the stock tarp pkg and the larger tarp is a separate purchase. If ordering from HH direct, you can sub for the larger tarp, and pay a little more for lighter versions. Also, the classic is on sale, so $175 for both hammock and large tarp. Again, I used the classic for years with a pad. I only changed when I started using an UQ, which it works ok for, but was a matter of either zip modding my hammock or selling it and buying a cheap gathered end, and I went the latter route.

Jayne

09-12-2018, 17:39

I recommend that you spend some time over at hammockforums and check out the advice there. I would strongly try to steer a 1st time hanger to a cottage vendor that specializes in hammocks versus a big box product. There are lots of great vendors to choose from. I like Dutchwaregear, Warbonnet Outdoors, and Simply Light Designs personally but that's hardly and exhaustive list.

connolm

09-12-2018, 17:57

SoaknWet

09-12-2018, 17:57

Just Bill

09-12-2018, 18:59

Tremendous thanks for all the suggestions! I'm grateful for you time and thoughtful responses.

in no particular order:

I was aware of the Dutchgear hammocks but hadn't seen their introductory package. Awesome suggestion! It looks like an 11' hammock with a separate bug net and hex tarp including suspension. The price is good. The pictures show a nice diagonal lie. This is a real contender. Some quick math shows this package weighing about 2.6 lbs (minus stakes).

The group hang in Goshen is nearby! I'm on the the North Shore from Boston. I should try to swing by. Get it... "Swing?" Hello? Is this thing on?

I started initially with the Explorer Classic in my cart on the Hennessy website because of the sale. That price was so enticing. But then I though about it and started questioning the practicality of the so-called classic entrance. How does it work with an underquilt? How do you reach down and attached the quilt after you enter? And how do you get into your sleeping bag with your pad positioned below you? Seems like a lot of wiggling. So decided not to punch in my credit card numbers.

As for Hammockforums.net... I signed up the other day. You think I should paste my original query as my very first posting? I was pondering doing so. I posted here first because I have some other posts and history here. I thought this crowd would be more savvy to weight and bulk considerations due to the backpacking aspect.

Warbonnet hammocks drew my attention because of their foot box and gear box (?). I just now reviewed their return policy and it's actually pretty good! Return within 60 days for any reason for a full refund minus any cleaning expenses. By that they mean washing to remove campfire smell. That makes Warbonnet a little more appealing as I try to figure out if hammock camping is for me. Their hammocks are longer and I'd be looking at a Blackbird XLC. I haven't yet added up the weights and prices though.

As for underquilt... I wasn't kidding about fair-weather camping. Under the conditions I'm considering using this, it will be July, August, and maybe September. Temps in 70's-80's. At night. In high humidity. And if I get into shoulder seasons, I'll take one of my many air pads and use it half inflated. (I really do have quite a few.) And after that, I'll go through the usual evolutionary progression of car windshield mat, closed cell foam, and then eventually under-quilt. I still would rather defer that whole issue. If i can find a nice package and test it out on some nice saturday afternoons in the next few weeks, I'll figure out the quilting next year in high season.

Please keep the comments coming!

So for now - in play and in order: Dutchgear Complete pack > Warbonnet Blackbird XLC (tentative) >> REI and HH...

What's the Dutchgear return policy? I can't find it on their site.
If you're willing to look beyond REI... the world is a big place.

Dutch's chameleon is a nice new person hammock.

However given your needs (and newness) you might consider a Warbonnet Ridgerunner in double layer.
$200 bucks and given what you have/need you'd be short a tarp.

In high summer- you might not need anything under you... but having two layers is helpful for bugs.
If it's a bit cooler- you have a pad sleeve and plenty of pads. So you dodge the whole UQ issue for quite some time.

There is a lot to take in with hammocks. Bridges are an inline hammock (like the REI) but actually built more like a floating cot.
No sorting out diagonals lays, left right or symmetrical, fiddling with head/foot heights etc. Just get it up and lay in it.
It's got an integrated net and the saddlebags so you don't have to sort out where all your crap goes when you go to bed.

The biggest thing with a bridge is consistent set up. Once you do it a dozen times you got it. Every dozen or so times I take a gathered end out something ends up a bit off and I have to get up and tinker.

But if you can get to a group hang... that's always ideal. Saves you lots of headscratching.

unlike simply laying in a tent... there is a decent amount of stuff to sort out. It's not the end of the world... but it helps a ton if you have a spot in the yard or at home to practice easily. Anyone can lay a pad on the floor and practice ground sleeping to work out kinks. But with hammocks if you don't have a spot to practice then the learning curve only gets steeper.

Just Bill

09-12-2018, 19:06

If you suggest any one other than a cottage vender HF members will run you out of the country. I have several top shelf hammocks but my favorite is a cheaper Wildhorn outfitters single layer 11' hammock, plus all my Warbonnet stuff works with it.
At the end of the day with gathered ends... you either find the perfect fabric for you or you don't. They all lay a little different. Other than finishing details and customer service there are not that many tricks that really make a difference. But to be fair those little details and customer service do engender some very fiercely loyal customers as a result.

Worth keeping in mind as the OP mentioned... WB is a bit more homogenous crowd too (long distance backpackers). The fun thing about the hammock side is you're dealing with everything from bedroom hammock users to genius level tinkerers and everything in between. And despite all the differences... they tend to be exceedingly nice.

I sell hammocks and tell other folks to buy other stuff if and when it makes more sense... I don't care as long as you go out.

Dogwood

09-12-2018, 23:36

My first real backpacking hammock was the Henessey UL asm bottom entry. That was sold. I went with the Zip. For me it was a vast improvement. At 6'4'' I have absolutely no problem with the ridgeline ht or converting it into a hanging seat. The zip just like anything other can fail when unduly stressed although I've had my Asm Zip for something like 6 yrs used in high winds on beaches in Hawaii and on treeless ridges in the Pacific Northwest and on teh northern CDT and OR PCT under storm conditions with no problems. First the tarp is attached via mitten hooks. IT IS removable and NOT integrated. BUT I went with a lighter wt cuben tarp that cost $80 I bought used on hammock forums. Great site for ham info. Those guys live the shart. I've learned a great deal from those folks. 2) buying directly from Hennessy is cheaper. They have sales. They often throw in the snake skins too with a $200 purchase. The lay is great for me. At your ht and wt I strongly suspect it will be for you too. Check out the hammock sites for correct set ups! It helps with the comfy level. I dont use a pad in a hammock and never use a ham in winter although I will employ an UQ at times...a tweaked EE 50* quilt.

I have no experience with the REI Flash. I did buy and use a Dutch hammock kit. Thom is top notch and provides great service. he can get your straps down to very UL wt with a variety of different UL hardware options. When I want to go lightest wt I also have a tricked out Dream UL Darien. Dream only makes the Darien as far as I now know. I use a non integrated sock and a non integrated cuben tarp for it. I like tweaking my gear by compartmentalizing or moduling it so I can take different parts or all of them based on conditions. Since it is the lightest wt I have to be careful with TLC and keeping my wt and wiggling around to 200 lbs max. It was a single layer. Forget the Denier and weave. I'm a side sleeper toss and turner from side to side. In a hammock I tend not to toss.

Dogwood

09-12-2018, 23:41

BTW my Hen Explore UL Zip weighs 19 ozs complete( no UQ) with mule tape. Thing is in hammock temp rating of a quilt or bag goes down while wt goes up to allow for bottom chill...at least in my book. I sleep coldest in a hang.

Dogwood

09-12-2018, 23:44

In my book, and as stated, I'd buy directly from a cottage hammock supplier. The details and explanations and answers and set up will be more solid than I surmise you'll get from any REI Associate...providing you communicate your needs and desires.

cmoulder

09-13-2018, 07:08

To the OP, I can't even begin to describe how much better a UQ is than all the other options.

At least that's how it was for me. When I first got some hammock stuff I went into my local woods just to test some various options, mainly because, like you, I have so many air mats from ground camping, including several TRs and a Klymit Xlite, and a couple of CCF options. Absolutely hated every one of them at any inflation level. Fidget factor was thru the roof. I'd use them as a last resort, but to plan on using them as regular go-to kit?? Nope, nada, no way.

cmoulder

09-13-2018, 09:08

And I'd go with that Dutch starter package in a heartbeat... FAR superior to the two choices in the first post. Many experienced hammock folks could be happy with that.

Billiard Yeti

09-13-2018, 10:15

Me I'm a Cottage Vendor Kinda Guy.

I would go with any of the vendors like Dutchware, Dream Hammock, Wilderness Logics, Hammock Gear, Warbonnet.

I have a Dream Sparrow, and a Wilderness Night Owl. My tarp is a Hammock Gear Winter Palace, and their Underquilts.

Very happy.

(if a Bridge Hammock I would strongly suggest the Ridge Runner from Warbonnet...

u.w.

09-13-2018, 13:30

Tremendous thanks for all the suggestions! I'm grateful for you time and thoughtful responses.

in no particular order:

The group hang in Goshen is nearby! I'm on the the North Shore from Boston. I should try to swing by. Get it... "Swing?" Hello? Is this thing on?

As for Hammockforums.net... I signed up the other day. You think I should paste my original query as my very first posting? I was pondering doing so. I posted here first because I have some other posts and history here. I thought this crowd would be more savvy to weight and bulk considerations due to the backpacking aspect.

As for underquilt... I wasn't kidding about fair-weather camping. Under the conditions I'm considering using this, it will be July, August, and maybe September. Temps in 70's-80's. At night. In high humidity. And if I get into shoulder seasons, I'll take one of my many air pads and use it half inflated. I'll figure out the quilting next year in high season.

Please keep the comments coming!

What's the Dutchgear return policy? I can't find it on their site.

Group Hang!! Heck yes!! I would definitely suggest swinging on by, and hanging out (taps mike... eh-hehm.... HelLo... LOL!) No substitute for being able to put yourself in the hammock and "see" what someone is talking about...

Figure out the underquilt thing when you decide it's time has come - no sweat - (taps mike again... is this thing on?)

You'll probably have to call Dutchgear & ask about their return policy.

I will offer - in my experience, with gathered end hammocks - that the lighter weight the fabric, the more it can 'squeeze' you, across a night of sleep. This can lead to slightly sore hips and/or shoulders in the morning. It seems to be due to how much you sink into the fabric -or- how much/high it wraps around you while you're lying in it; your own weight coming into play also. Polyester is said to stretch less than nylon, and a heavier weight nylon (i.e. 1.9 oz or 1.6 oz) may well have less stretch/squeeze, than a lighter weight one (1.3 oz or 1.1 oz).

u.w.

scope

09-13-2018, 14:45

...I started initially with the Explorer Classic in my cart on the Hennessy website because of the sale. That price was so enticing. But then I though about it and started questioning the practicality of the so-called classic entrance. How does it work with an underquilt? How do you reach down and attached the quilt after you enter? And how do you get into your sleeping bag with your pad positioned below you? Seems like a lot of wiggling. So decided not to punch in my credit card numbers...

If you've got a lot of room between your tarp and hammock, then the open top is much more practical. And its one of the reasons why I'd say to get a zipper mod (https://www.2qzqhammockhanger.com/fullwidth/) if you do get the bottom entry version. The other reason for the zipper mod is its good to be able to reach out, whether its to adjust an underquilt or reach some of your stuff underneath the hammock. Of course, this adds to the cost, which it might seem odd to put a zipper on a hammock when you could just buy a zipper model instead. The practicality of the bottom entry originates with the way the stock tarp works and is attached to the hammock suspension. Note that the same method of attaching the tarp exists on the zip version, which IMO makes for an impractical way of entering and exiting the hammock (perhaps not with a hex tarp in porch mode). Whereas, the bottom entry entrance is from the broadly open end of the hammock, yet still covered. Entry and exit is very easy - more sit and lean back as opposed to sit and spin of a top loader. The one thing that might make a difference for you, given that you will only be camping in warm humid weather, is that there is NOTHING better for a buggy environment than the bottom entry. Put a light on your ridgeline and watch the bugs congregate on top of the net while you enter from the bottom. And if you're asking why I don't still use mine, its because I found I didn't camp in buggy conditions and went to a netless hammock.

By the way, you attach an UQ before getting into the hammock, but you often do need to be able to reach out and adjust it, especially as you're getting used to using one. Sounds like that's a while off, though. And bags are really great for cold weather when you have to wiggle, squirm and writhe around to get yourself and pad situated. Yes, a little facetious there, but true. Not true for warmer weather. You learn to unzip the bag to use as a quilt, and then you learn how much extra material you have around you, which makes you want to change out the bag for a quilt.

None of this means you should get the Explorer classic, but tt does sound like a really viable option for you. That said, if using a pad, a double layer hammock can be a great way of not having to constantly adjust the pad during the night as you move around (which you will do less of than you do at home). That would make either the Warbonnet or Dutch options ones to look at. Might take a peak at DreamHammock.com to see what some possibilities are, too. Best of luck in your journey!

Jayne

09-14-2018, 12:34

Fabric is very important to hammock comfort but it is a bit size dependent. You want a little give so that it doesn't create pinch points but not so much that you sink into it. For what it's worth I think that the Xenon 1.6 is just about perfect for me but I'm on the bigger side for a hike (280.) Xenon 1.1 is probably a better choice for someone under 150 lbs. Also, I wouldn't bother with the 2 layer unless you plan on using a pad instead of an underquilt. Some folks like it as extra bug protection but I have found that giving the hammock a soak in permethrin works great and is much lighter and less fiddly. There's a lot going on with a hammock and it can be a bit overwhelming to a new user so starting off simply is a good idea.

Even if you're only out in warmer months I would still strongly recommend an underquilt - they are just very comfortable. Something in the 40-50 degree range is my preference for summer months. You lose a lot of heat through a hammock and will get colder a lot easier than you think. For great deals on underquilts I really like the HammockGear Econ line. Good values there.

BuckeyeBill

09-14-2018, 12:54

For the kind of money you are looking to spend, you can pick up a new Warbonnet Blackbird XLC for $180-$230 bucks. All of them have a choice of continuous loops, whoppie slings or straps. Except for a couple, all weigh the same or less than your two choices. Check over on Hammockforums.net (https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/forumdisplay.php/44-Hangouts-Campouts-and-Trip-Planning) for an upcoming hang in your area. You will see a wide variety of hammocks and setups. The people there will be very friendly and answer your questions. Almost all of them will let you try out their hammocks if you don't act like a dweeb.

pborowski

09-15-2018, 14:54

I used a Hennesy Ultralight (with a 3/4 length ThermaRest pad during cooler weather) during my 2004 thru-hike. I also had the snake skins, but I found I didn't use them much. The color of the Hennesy was perfect for stealth camping. Back in the day, only the bottom entry model was available. It worked flawlessly. I spent many rainy nights in it and never felt like the fly did not provide adequate coverage.

That said, I recently bought an REI Flash for my 2019 hike. My experience with it is limited to only one night so far, but I'm pretty impressed so far. I really like the whoopie slings and hanging hooks which speed up the hanging process (unfortunately, the fly hangs separately, so it's kind of a wash). The bug netting unzips completely and stores near your feet (now the Hennesy feels claustrophobic by comparison). I love placement of the storage pockets in the Flash (there is the perfect place to store a tablet or e-reader above your head). I've read the stated weights from Hennesy are inaccurate. If you upgrade the straps and add snake skins, you may find the weights are closer. I bought mine that last time REI had a 25% off REI-brand sale ($150). My only concern is the orange color (not too stealthy).

I'm 5' 11", 190 lbs. and a side sleeper as well. My first night in the Flash was with an Eno insulated pad and a Enlightened Equipment quilt. With a bit of adjustment, I could get a pretty flat lay. I'm waiting for the next sale to get one for my girlfriend.

Either would be a good choice in my opinion. Hope this helps.

Feral Bill

09-15-2018, 19:27

After this afternoons hammock nap, I weighed my Dream Hammock Raven (with mosquito net and 12' long, 1" nylon straps), and 8x10 silnylon tarp with needed lines and pegs. Total is 3 lbs 4 oz. A smaller /lighter person could save a few ounces on that. Competative, I'd say.

Five Tango

09-16-2018, 20:03

Hammock Forums is where its at.Note,Dutch's Side Zip 11 foot 1.6 Argon hammock would likely fit the bill for you reasonably.I started with a HH Expedition in about 2003 as I recall-shelved it.You can get down quilts from Hammock Gear made from Duck down which are more than adequate and quite economical.HG also has a fine tarp for the money,The Quest.Dream Hammock,Warbonnet,and Simply Light Designs are also awesome cottage vendors.Look before you leap..........

gravitino

09-17-2018, 00:27

Five Tango

09-17-2018, 10:01

While you are at it-check out a guy known as Shug on You Tube.AKA- Sean Emery-humble and knowledgeable disseminator of hammock information and fun to watch!

Feral Bill

09-17-2018, 14:31

Warbonnet Traveler (netless)
Simply Light Designs Trail Lair (integrated net)
Dream Hammocks Dangerbird (integrated net)
Dutchgear as stated in previous posts

Don't buy HH, Bayer, REI, or an underpad.

I had a Byer fail on me two days hike from the nearest trailhead, so + 1 on the above.

connolm

09-18-2018, 12:58

I ultimately went with the REI flash. I had my credit card out and was ready with the Dutchware Gear - but REI's return policy won out.

I decided it's the easiest one to try and if I don't like it, the easiest one to return. If I don't like it, Dutchware Gear is next. HH is lower on the list despite being available at REI. It has too many reviews stating the weights are off and the tarps are too small.

The REI Flash arrived Saturday but I haven't had a chance to hang it yet. I live in an urban area with no trees. And now we're getting the remnants of Florence.

It did weight exactly 2 lbs 14 oz right out of the box as claimed. It's a bit bulkier than I expected but I was able to roll it more compact than originally shipped. It does have a nice "wow factor" with all the nifty design and integration. Lots of pockets, zippers and tabs. The cordage is fancy with color weave and reflector tech. The four stakes are typical. The whoopie slings look nice and the C-link caribiners are light and like nothing I've seen before.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

gravitino

09-18-2018, 15:46

If you don't get comfortable in the hammock, it could be that the REI Flash is too short and too narrow. The Flash is nine feet long, while the typical cottage hammocks is eleven feet. The Flash is 36 inches wide versus the typical 56-58 inches of a cottage hammock. The lack of length and width may preclude achieving a diagonal flat lay, which creates the most significant comfort factor in a hammock. The alternative is the "banana" position, laying straight in the hammock, which is not as comfortable or healthy, as it creates more curvature on the spine, hyper-extension of the knees, and strain on the neck.

Five Tango

09-18-2018, 16:20

I purchased an asym tarp from Dutch once.Decided I didn't like it-he took it back no questions asked and I then purchased a Hex tarp from him.As for weight- I am pretty sure my Dutch 11 Foot Side Zip in hexon 1.0 weighs about 14 oz total.Go compare that to the HH and you will see why I shelved it,although the HH is a real workhorse.
I did use a larger tarp with my HH for a long time and shelved the original asym tarp that came with it.

connolm

09-20-2018, 11:27

I should be able to get out this weekend and string things up for assessment. For size comparison, I also purchased an 11 foot hammock from Amazon for $17.99. It's measures 130" x 78" and looks like an ENO knock-off. You can see it here (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078J9KV29/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1).

Its claimed weight is 2.1 lbs - so not exactly backpack worthy. $17.99 is a reasonably safe investment to get to the bottom of this size/comfort issue. I've spent more than that on 4-packs of craft beer.

Jayne

09-20-2018, 12:40

Congrats on the purchase! Hanging can take a while to get used to so be patient with it and understand that it may take a couple of tries to get used to. The 1st big question you're going to have to find the answer to is how do I prefer to lay in a hammock? Some things that you should experiment with to see what is more comfortable for you personally:

- If you're using an air pas as insulation you're going to have to play around with how full to fill it so that it's comfortable but still provides insulation
- Try switching sides - some folks prefer head left, feet right, and some prefer the reverse
- Play around with the height of the hammock ends. Most folks like the foot side a little higher than the head side. I prefer the reverse. You're just going to have to experiment with this to see what you like.
- It doesn't look like either hammock you chose has a structural ridgeline. That line connects the two ends of the hammock so that the amount of sag in the hammock is always the same regardless of the angle of the straps connecting it to the trees. You can hang just fine without one but that's another variable. You'll have to play around with tightening an loosening the ends to adjust the sag of the the hammock. It impacts comfort a lot.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes this weekend!

ggreaves

09-20-2018, 14:00

ggreaves

09-20-2018, 14:04

Just Bill

09-20-2018, 18:03

43674

This overhead shot of the flash hammock from the REI website demonstrates a complete lack of understanding in how you're supposed to lie in a gathered end hammock. Enjoy your purchase but don't try to use it like you see in the picture. You'll be quite uncomfortable. rei actually sells a bridge hammock for a similar price as this one btw.
Don't take this as personal- your post is a convenient example.

I do like a wide long hammock in a gathered end design.
But just about any college kid can get a good nap in a 4x9 pocket hammock. And I have several folks who have reached out to me to build them, including some older folks. I don't mind them for a quick trip.
I also couldn't give a crap about hammocks when I was 18 and willing to sleep on a 1/4" cut down piece of foam either.

A rectangular bodied gathered end hammock (whipped or channel) does indeed have limitations regarding lay direction. It does indeed benefit from a diagonal lay. Additional length or width can indeed increase the flat feel and increase in comfort. Selecting just the right fabric for your individual body weight may in fact help quite a bit.

For the most part any cheap knock off product you pick up on amazon will be of inferior quality to a well designed brand name. And any brand name gear will not have the innovation, care, or intense customer service one might find in a cottage brand. Though I have seen some pretty heinous gear sewn from 'cottage vendors'... so smaller isn't always better either. Sometimes it's still nice to get something in hand from a place you can park in the lot and find someone face to face.

Point being- yes many hammock folks do have a complete understanding of a very specific type of hammock. I generally agree with that understanding.

What is mildly funny is that I am starting to hear more often from folks who are intimidated by hammock forums. (Ironically WB was always the 'harsh' place and HF the 'nice' one).
Cut people a little slack. :) Let them get started or try something before you run them off.
There are actually lots of different ways to string a piece of fabric from a tree. By far the simplest is a gathered end. It is not the only way.

Maybe that REI thing sucks. Their 'couch' sucked. The bridge wasn't great, but it sucked less. This thing might not end up sucking. Who cares? Let him try it and return it. Or it works and he's happy.
It'd be one thing if someone chimed in and said they used the hammock and it sucked.
It is clearly designed to be used with an inline lay. It's doubtful you could lie on an angle. If you did, odds are good it would suck even more.
There are ways to design an inline lay hammock. No idea if REI has figured them out- but I know for a fact that it can be done.
Just as both the Amok Dramor and 90* UL from hammock tent show that you can design one that also lays "wrong".
A bridge is an inline lay hammock. So two of the most popular hammock designs are also 'wrong'.

There are also ways to shape the ends and do different things that most in the hammock community demonstrate a complete lack of comprehension regarding any of these possibilities. A roll width by 11' rectangle featuring fabric from dutch or ripstop by the roll is not the ONLY hammock that exists. If it worked so amazing for everyone all the time then why does the Ridgerunner sell so well?

If Speer's legendary whipped end design was all we needed then why didn't it stop there? When Tom brought his hammocks to the masses and changed the game... how did all these cottage guys get a foot in the door?
People always push to make better stuff. Is a 'knotty mod' a technological leap of genius on par with Tesla... or is it just a good idea from somebody tinkering on the forums who let his cottage buddies use it? Is it possible some tinkerer working for a non cottage vendor might not get a good idea some day?

I love that hammock folks are such dedicated fans and supporters of both the hobby AND the cottage vendors.
But the goal is to get folks out in the woods comfortably... not run them off for having an independent thought.
It takes an open mind to try a hammock.
It is odd that folks tend to slam that open mind shut once they find something that works for them and try so hard to force it on everyone else.

I build gear with an open mind because if what I wanted was on the shelf it's easier just to buy it.
I build the lightest bridge hammock in the world. I build the largest too.
I build 90* hammocks, 60* hammocks and even a 180* hammock.
I have at least 10 unique designs that are not released to the public.
I even build an inline lay gathered end hammock less than is in fact under 9' long, the one below is in fact only one of them.

I'm just one dude, who does this part time. Imagine what a team of smart designers might stumble on one day if they get lucky and choose not to simply duplicate what others have done?
There are alot of gimmicks and wanna-be vendors... but there is still some innovation.
Not only from a new vendor... but perhaps from that next hanger who comes along who chooses not to just buy from Randy, Dutch or Brandon and see what might just be possible if they give it a shot.
In fact that's exactly who people like Dutch and Brandon are in the first place. These beloved cottage vendors wouldn't exist unless they chose not to use the once beloved Speer or Hennessy folks probably told them to buy.
43680

connolm

09-29-2018, 20:33

Got outside today with the REI Flash today. (Wasn't able to last weekend.)

It was unexpectedly easy to setup. Straps go around the trees. Hammock connects to straps with the C-clips. Pole goes into sewn track. Tarp goes up with the attached lines and c-clips. I expected more fiddling, tweaking, and resetting. I think I could do it in about 90 seconds if needed. (faster?)

I partially inflated my Thermarest NeoAir Xlite pad and locked it in place with the restraining straps. Sitting down in it, I noticed that the hammock stretched/sagged quite a bit more than I expected. Maybe that's because it's new?

The lay was surprisingly comfortable both on my back and on my side in semi-fetal position. Given the vitriol toward this design and REI, I was expecting to be uncomfortable. Not so at all! I didn't fall asleep - but I hung in there for about ten minutes. The gentle swaying was very relaxing. I could roll to either side and remain comfortable. It seemed like I didn't need to be perfectly centered in the hammock.

Next, I took the air pad out and laid down. Again, I was surprised by the comfort. I actually preferred the side semi-fetal position MORE without the pad than with it. But I also noticed the cooling effect of the hammock fabric on my backside. It seemed like warmth was actively sucked away from me by the breeze.

Tear down went quickly and easily. I think I re-packed the hammock in the sack better than it was originally packed.

The tarp had an very cool feature for packing up. There were velcro tabs that would hold the wrapped up tie-outs. (I'll try to get a picture - but this seemed very very cool to me!)

I really like how the "pole" helped the hammock keep its shape and lift the net. The space above my head was impressive and there seemed to be a lot of hammock left below my feet.

I also noted some downsides. As stated in other reviews, the ridgeline is under high tension and the plastic clip that bears all that tension seems a bit meek. I was able to zip the bug net past that clip either due to tension. So the net has to be half zipped before getting in. As well, the zipper hung up several times at the same place where there's a sewing transition from net to fabric.

The pockets in the area above my head were cool. But at the angle I set it up, everything rolled out of the pockets. The straps worked for the trees I selected - but they were at their limit. Another few inches would be preferred.

I didn't have the same feeling of being "inside" something like I do with a tent. Maybe a good thing - maybe not. Time will tell. I also didn't know what to think about NOT having somewhere to put my gear.

Overall - I left pretty excited about the hammock. It was more comfortable than I expected and very easy to setup.

Up next - I need to get back out and try the 11ft hammock I picked up for comparison. I'd also like to see how the REI Flash performs in poor weather.

Jayne

10-01-2018, 10:43

Thanks for the update! Glad you enjoyed your hang. Watch out, it's additive! :)

scope

10-01-2018, 13:31

It was unexpectedly easy to setup... I think REI did a good job trying to understand their customer and what was needed for a first-timer to be successful.

Sitting down in it, I noticed that the hammock stretched/sagged quite a bit more than I expected. Maybe that's because it's new?... Some stretch can be a good thing for comfort, depending on your weight. Likely will do that every time out.

The lay was surprisingly comfortable both on my back and on my side in semi-fetal position. Given the vitriol toward this design and REI, I was expecting to be uncomfortable. Not so at all! I didn't fall asleep - but I hung in there for about ten minutes... Vitriol, huh? Well, let's be clear, most of us that have criticized the Flash have never been in it. That said, need to keep in mind that we have a high enough experience level to have some fairly clear insights into what affects comfort for a hammock, even though comfort is still a very personal thing. I think REI is trying to do something different with the Flash, and it will be good to hear your long-term report on your level of success in using it. I'd ask you to make another assessment of our general opinions on the hammock after you've spent more than 10 minutes in one - like overnight. Perhaps REI is on to something that we were remiss in our consideration.

I actually preferred the side semi-fetal position MORE without the pad than with it... Just guessing it could be related to knee hyperextension.
A figure 4 lay is a good middle ground for laying on your back - one leg out, one pulled in.

I also noticed the cooling effect of the hammock fabric on my backside. It seemed like warmth was actively sucked away from me by the breeze... That's exactly what it is. Much like sleeping on a waterbed when the power goes out. Does anybody sleep on a waterbed anymore? Anyway, a similar effect would occur on the ground because of the temperature differential between you and the ground. That's the primary reason for a pad. But in a hammock you have wind whisking away your heat more quickly than how the ground absorbs it. Has to be real warm overnite to sleep without any insulation. Not sure if the Flash can accommodate an UQ?

Tear down went quickly and easily. I think I re-packed the hammock in the sack better than it was originally packed. The tarp had an very cool feature for packing up. There were velcro tabs that would hold the wrapped up tie-outs... Again, that's something that REI does real well and I sort of wish some others would spend more attention on. The cottage hammock industry has always been more modular in its focus as opposed to trying to sell an all-in-one product like REI is trying to do.

I really like how the "pole" helped the hammock keep its shape and lift the net. The space above my head was impressive and there seemed to be a lot of hammock left below my feet... I hang my tarp high and don't use a net. I don't know what is impressive or not, but given that REI intends the Flash to be more like a hanging bivy, then in that regard I suppose headroom is a definite perk.

I also noted some downsides... Good notes on the issues. I find that all the products I've used have some downside, and for me, it comes down to the cumulative number of downsides and what I'm willing, and not willing to put up with on my trips. Often, more so than the potential of the upsides. I think a lot of "selling" a product focuses on the upsides, whereas one significant downside makes it unusable. I think this is where much of our critisism of the Flash comes in - that we see potential significant downsides that would rule it out for us. But again, looking forward to hearing your take after using it on some overnights.

I didn't have the same feeling of being "inside" something like I do with a tent. Maybe a good thing - maybe not. Time will tell... This is one of the biggest "pros" for me, the open feeling. Even better without a net (for me).

I also didn't know what to think about NOT having somewhere to put my gear... And the #1 noob question, survey says, "Where do I put my gear?" So, where did you put your gear. THAT is where you put your gear. Keep in mind that while you don't have walls like a tent, you do have dry space like a tent. So the ground underneath your tarp is not really any different than what you have in a tent. Sure, you probably want to have it more in the center than around the edge, and a lot of us take something to put the gear on so that its not directly on the ground.

Up next - I need to get back out and try the 11ft hammock I picked up for comparison... Excellent idea!! Do try out both overnight, because any hammock is relatively comfy to lounge in. Spending 8+ hrs in one can be different.

I'd also like to see how the REI Flash performs in poor weather... The tarp is small but I believe its designed to sit fairly close to you so that it probably performs pretty well. Because its not wide enough to get close to the ground, its going to let in some windblown rain (gear) and its not going to block much wind. You can replace the tarp if you find the hammock to be comfy long term.

Greenlight

10-01-2018, 21:23

If you buy a steup from Hennessy, they throw in the snakeskins for free. I've been hanging with their equipment for a couple of years and have had no problems, other than you will want to upgrade the tarp to a hex. Just do it. If you custom order, they'll probably swap the tarps out and reduce the price of the standard setup. If you want a deep discount, and can wait until May, go to Trail Days. They show up, and on the last Sunday they deep discount what they have left on hand. I got mine for better than 50 percent off for a hyperlite. Its stated weight limit is 200 lbs, though, so you may want to stick with the ultralight.

G

Hi Hammockers:

Seeking advice and expertise from the Whiteblaze Hammock crowd. Lots of information below. But the key question is:

REI Flash or Hennessy Explorer Ultralite Zip for a first timer?

Quick facts:

I'm 47 years old, 5'11" and 220 lbs. I'm a casual hiker and bikepacker. I'm a side sleeper.

I've been a tent camper with a SMD Lunar Solo and a Thermarest NeoAir Xlite pad.

-->> I'm committed to buying from REI because I want the ability to return the hammock if it isn't for me.

Hammocks for consideration:

Hennessy Explorer Ultralite Asym Zip (https://www.rei.com/product/849592/hennessy-hammock-explorer-ultralight-asym-zip-hammock) from REI for $279.95 at 2 lbs. 4 oz. I'd also add Snakeskins for another $20 - so $299.95 total.

REI Co-op Flash Air Hammock from REI (https://www.rei.com/product/127400/rei-co-op-flash-air-hammock) for $199.95 at 2 lbs. 13 oz.

More details:

My two most recent adventures have demonstrated significant drawbacks for tent camping. I experienced limited tenting sites on the AT over the Bigelow Preserve (https://www.maine.gov/dacf/parks/docs/maps/bigelowpreserve.pdf). There were almost no tent sites between shelters and then the tent sites were often platforms. While bikepacking the Green Mountain Gravel Growler, (http://www.bikepacking.com/routes/green-mountain-gravel-growler/) I wanted to stealth camp in the road-side woods on "non-tentable" terrain. On both adventures, I felt a hammock would have been preferable.

I naively assume that hammocking negates the need for the 12oz pad (although I also understand that under-insulation is required in cooler situations).

Hennessy Hammock
Pros:
2 lbs 4 oz. - lighter than Flash
Better color environment
Longer than Flash
Snakeskins!
Asym diagonal lie

Cons:
$100 more than Flash
Weight is reported to be mis-represented and likely closer to 2 lbs 8 oz. Then add Snakeskins.
Tarp is frequently cited as too small - especially for poor weather
Concerned about complexity

REI Flash
Pros:
Looks like a cool, completely integrated system designed from ground up
Pole spreader gives shape
more pockets and storage
Whoppie Slings
Pad straps

Cons:
Horrible color
Banana lie? (Can't tell)
Slightly heavier
Short (?)

Other thoughts?

*** I like the idea of the Flash. It simply looks cool. Worried about the banana lie and the shortness though. But in one review (https://youtu.be/jEz6H8Nb16c), the reviewer (https://youtu.be/jEz6H8Nb16c) said he would recommend it wholeheartedly above a Hennessy. And the $100 price difference is significant.

*** But I also like the idea of the Hennessy. It's got a longer history and is more prevalent in the "hammock-sphere." I wish it had Whoopie slings though. And the tarp has me concerned that I'll need to spend more soon.

Please - no flame war on REI. I'm committed to buying from them to increase my dividend and because of their return policy. I also know about underquilts and am not ready to deal with that yet. This will be used in nice weather to start.

Also note - I have a Moskito by Byer of Maine (https://www.amazon.com/Byer-of-Maine-Moskito-Hammock/dp/B00092M246). It's cheap and uncomfortable and I can't imagine ever getting a wink of sleep in it. The ropes tangle easily and the bug net is fragile like crepe paper. If neither the REI Flash nor the Hennessy are significantly better than the Moskito, let me know and I won't bother.

I'm eager to hear Whiteblaze's thoughts! Chime in and offer an opinion!