View Full Version : When did Leki's warranty become garbage?
SWODaddy
10-02-2018, 10:37
I had a warranty issue a while ago and they made it right.
This past weekend I bent a pole after sinking waist deep into a bog at Dolly Sods. I sent them pictures and filed a warranty claim - they told me to bend it back. :rolleyes:
Apparently, their new policy only covers breakage. Not sure how someone would actually break an aluminum shaft.
illabelle
10-02-2018, 10:59
Waist deep in a bog? Ugh!! Can't imagine that was any fun!
I have a pair of Leki poles. Bent one once and they sent replacement parts promptly with no resistance. If they've changed their policy, that's disappointing. My poles have had a lot of use, and when I'm ready to replace them, I want a good warranty.
AllDownhillFromHere
10-02-2018, 11:00
Everyone bends and then re-bends their Al poles. Al bends, that's the point.
Leki ignored my claim or chose not to act upon it.
I hope your experience is better than mine.
TF
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Everyone bends and then re-bends their Al poles. Al bends, that's the point.
Not everyone. I don't.
They also sent me a new replacement pole at no charge once. Several years ago. Great customer service. Hate to think it's gone downhill.
AllDownhillFromHere
10-02-2018, 12:18
Not everyone. I don't.
They also sent me a new replacement pole at no charge once. Several years ago. Great customer service. Hate to think it's gone downhill.
Leki IS awesome - they were able to identify the spacers/adjusters of my ancient Super Makalus right over the phone. But metal bends. And bends back.
MuddyWaters
10-02-2018, 12:35
Everyone bends and then re-bends their Al poles. Al bends, that's the point.
Soft aluminum bends
Hardened aluminum snaps in two suddenly
Ive broken two al poles, not bent, broken, as in 1 piece becomes two suddenly when bent too far.
Just finish breaking the thing and then file your claim. It is very likely to break after bending back because its been work hardened.
Hikingjim
10-02-2018, 18:02
I had a warranty issue a while ago and they made it right.
This past weekend I bent a pole after sinking waist deep into a bog at Dolly Sods. I sent them pictures and filed a warranty claim - they told me to bend it back. :rolleyes:
Apparently, their new policy only covers breakage. Not sure how someone would actually break an aluminum shaft.
Sounds like they'd like you to call back in a few minutes after you snap the pole.
Tundracamper
10-02-2018, 18:14
They will cover breakage due to user error? That’s pretty amazing. And don’t tell me hiking poles should never break. That’s bogus. If it’s deep in a big and you put a lateral load on it, that would seem to fall well outside the parameters of normal usage.
I sure hope this is not true of Leki. My customer service experiences with them up to this point have been fantastic! I have broken a pole and a flip lock and both times they overnighted me the replacement parts with no questions asked.
Starchild
10-02-2018, 18:43
They will cover breakage due to user error? That’s pretty amazing. And don’t tell me hiking poles should never break. That’s bogus. If it’s deep in a big and you put a lateral load on it, that would seem to fall well outside the parameters of normal usage.
Exactly because they are only made for conditions normally found in hiking which would never include being anywhere near such a bog as trails are not built there, well I guess in hiking one may encounter such a bog, because trails are placed their sometimes, so yes hiking sticks should be able to take the activity of hiking, which I have to admit could and does include bogs. If they were not made for hiking trails then perhaps they need to sell them as walking sticks, but I have to admit if they are made for hiking they should work in such condition as one can normally expect on trail.
On two separate occasions I have had an outstanding customer service experience with Leki. Both times I had a split on the lower section of a pole. They sent me a replacement pronto. No hassles. I have nothing but praise for Leki. I hope this is an anomaly or misunderstanding.
I just checked the original packaging on my 9 year old Leki Super Makalu poles and it clearly states that the shafts are guaranteed for life against breakage (carbon fiber for 1 year). So it looks like their warranty policy has not changed at least in the past 9 years. You make be unhappy with your situation but Leki has not given you the shaft (pun intended).
nsherry61
10-02-2018, 20:25
Leki's warranty has been against breakage and NOT bending since I've been using them as of about ten or twelve years ago.
First point: Why replace a perfectly straightenable pole if it is not broken? I've straitened many a bent aluminum poles with no issues other than it took care to get the pole section truly straight again so it slid in and out without extra friction. I still use a pair of Black Diamond poles that I bent the lower section on (a good 45 to 90 degrees) on the first day of a week long trip. I straightened it up enough bending it backwards over my knee to keep hiking that day. I played around getting it better when we stopped for the night so I could collapse the pole. Then a couple hikes later, I got annoyed at the friction when trying to collapse the bent section, so I spend a few minutes rolling the pole lection on my table to see the bends remaining and bent it over my knee again until it was perfectly straight . . . that was at least 5 years ago. Poles are still going strong. Heck, the work hardening has probably made them stronger.
Second point: Straighten the darn thing to the best of your ability. If it breaks, Leki will replace it hassle free.
Third point: If you crash your car do you expect the car company to replace your car free of charge? We are way, way, way spoiled in the outdoor industry!
MuddyWaters
10-02-2018, 20:30
Exactly because they are only made for conditions normally found in hiking which would never include being anywhere near such a bog as trails are not built there, well I guess in hiking one may encounter such a bog, because trails are placed their sometimes, so yes hiking sticks should be able to take the activity of hiking, which I have to admit could and does include bogs. If they were not made for hiking trails then perhaps they need to sell them as walking sticks, but I have to admit if they are made for hiking they should work in such condition as one can normally expect on trail.
If you want carry a stick of rebar it'll work under almost any conditions. The problem is people want to carry things that are light. Light and strong don't go together well.
I think poles stand up to normal hiking use ok. But not heavy loads from falls etc. my couple of broken poles resulted from my feet slipping out from under me on slick rocks and all my weight coming down on the pole planted at an angle under me.
SWODaddy
10-02-2018, 21:14
Leki's warranty has been against breakage and NOT bending since I've been using them as of about ten or twelve years ago.
First point: Why replace a perfectly straightenable pole if it is not broken? I've straitened many a bent aluminum poles with no issues other than it took care to get the pole section truly straight again so it slid in and out without extra friction. I still use a pair of Black Diamond poles that I bent the lower section on (a good 45 to 90 degrees) on the first day of a week long trip. I straightened it up enough bending it backwards over my knee to keep hiking that day. I played around getting it better when we stopped for the night so I could collapse the pole. Then a couple hikes later, I got annoyed at the friction when trying to collapse the bent section, so I spend a few minutes rolling the pole lection on my table to see the bends remaining and bent it over my knee again until it was perfectly straight . . . that was at least 5 years ago. Poles are still going strong. Heck, the work hardening has probably made them stronger.
Second point: Straighten the darn thing to the best of your ability. If it breaks, Leki will replace it hassle free.
Third point: If you crash your car do you expect the car company to replace your car free of charge? We are way, way, way spoiled in the outdoor industry!
Short answer: Every time you bend it, it becomes weaker. That means it will bend easier and further the next time. A good makeshift solution, but not long term.
SWODaddy
10-02-2018, 21:18
UPDATE: After another exchange (and contemplating breaking the damn pole section in the garage), the customer service rep said she would send me a new pole section. So...my confidence has been somewhat restored.
SWODaddy
10-02-2018, 21:24
Waist deep in a bog? Ugh!! Can't imagine that was any fun!
I have a pair of Leki poles. Bent one once and they sent replacement parts promptly with no resistance. If they've changed their policy, that's disappointing. My poles have had a lot of use, and when I'm ready to replace them, I want a good warranty.
Every time I go there I ask myself what I was thinking. There are some fun sections of trail there, though.
I had a warranty issue a while ago and they made it right.
This past weekend I bent a pole after sinking waist deep into a bog at Dolly Sods. I sent them pictures and filed a warranty claim - they told me to bend it back. :rolleyes:
Apparently, their new policy only covers breakage. Not sure how someone would actually break an aluminum shaft.
How bad is it, post a photo of the bent section here if you don't mind. I have broken an aluminum pole section more than once, hike enough and it can happen.
nsherry61
10-02-2018, 22:16
Short answer: Every time you bend it, it becomes weaker. That means it will bend easier and further the next time. A good makeshift solution, but not long term.
SWODaddy, you'd better brush up on your aluminum metallurgy. Your statement is absolutely false.
There is a reason that the highest end, high stress, aluminum parts are cold forged. Straightening a bent pole is cold forging it, in a way. It will become stiffer and less likely to bend further again, but, at the same time, too much bending and it becomes brittle and may break. Most trekking poles could be made "stronger", but the cost would be that a high stress event would be more likely to break the pole which is a much harder thing to repair on the trail than a bent pole.
When one of my wife's poles was badly bent as it was tied to the outside of the checked luggage (and the flight company said, tied to the outside would be no good for an insurance case) we went to the shop we've bought it and the guy opened a drawer full of used pole sections we could select one that fit.
If you bend back a bent Aluminium pole, all sorts of things can happen and the higher the materials strenght the worse, but none would make the piece near as good as it's been originally.
If one has to rely on the poles seriously, its highly recommended to replace the bent (and bent back) piece eventually.
nsherry61
10-03-2018, 12:38
. . . If you bend back a bent Aluminium pole, all sorts of things can happen and the higher the materials strenght the worse, but none would make the piece near as good as it's been originally.
If one has to rely on the poles seriously, its highly recommended to replace the bent (and bent back) piece eventually.
I find it interesting how concerned many people get about bending or bent aluminum. It's not steel, there is no doubt and that is good and bad. But, there is no black magic in aluminum mentalergy. Most aluminum alloys (probably all) work harden and get brittle much faster than steel. But, that doesn't mean they can't be bent. Heck, all kinds of aluminum are bent and forged as part of the manufacturing process. Bicycle handlebars for instance, where safety is paramount, are engineered to be work hardened just the right amount during the manufacturing (bending) process and without that work hardening they are not strong enough to be safe.
When bending aluminum by hand, it is quite obvious when the metal starts to get hard because it also gets very stiff very fast. If you are bending aluminum, you want to stop bending it when you feel it starting to rapidly get stiff or you absolutely can break it.
As for bent poles: I've broken two different ski poles in my life and bent one. I've bent three trekking poles and never broken one. I've bent all that I've ever had except my newest ones that haven't been used enough yet, I guess. I suspect ski poles are made out of harder aluminum that tends to be stronger for its weight, but then also breaks instead of bends. Both my Black Diamond and Leki poles bent surprisingly easily and then bent back without any apparent issue (better to bend in the back-country than breaking in my book). I have used and am using my rebent poles for years without ever bending any of them a second time (work hardening?) and without ever breaking them (not work hardening them too much?).
At any rate. Speaking from more experience that I wish I had, I would like to encourage people to go ahead and straighten any slightly bent trekking poles they have without concern. Yes, if the bend is sharp and/or there is a kink in the tubing, replace it. But, good golly, don't throw away, or otherwise quit using a pole, just because it has a bend. Fix it. You'll be proud.
Gambit McCrae
10-04-2018, 08:22
I had a warranty issue a while ago and they made it right.
This past weekend I bent a pole after sinking waist deep into a bog at Dolly Sods. I sent them pictures and filed a warranty claim - they told me to bend it back. :rolleyes:
Apparently, their new policy only covers breakage. Not sure how someone would actually break an aluminum shaft.
If you are looking for a replacement company with an outstanding warranty check out komperdell. They have replaced a many of a pole that they didn't HAVE to. I have always gone the carbon route but they may have alum poles if you prefer to stick with that.
AllDownhillFromHere
10-04-2018, 08:52
I've had good luck with Cascade Mountain Tech - cheap Amazon poles, but for $40 I got a pair of carbon poles, and they replaced the lower portions when the tips withered after 800 miles.
How far are you guys bending your Al poles?
saltysack
10-04-2018, 09:32
BD carbon corks have a few thousand miles on them and still can’t believe I haven’t snapped them. I’m 220 and support my big azz on every trip...handles alittle worm and chewed up..likely try to retro a set of GG handles as don’t think BD offers new cork. BD has GREAT CS!
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SWODaddy
10-04-2018, 17:05
SWODaddy, you'd better brush up on your aluminum metallurgy. Your statement is absolutely false.
There is a reason that the highest end, high stress, aluminum parts are cold forged. Straightening a bent pole is cold forging it, in a way. It will become stiffer and less likely to bend further again, but, at the same time, too much bending and it becomes brittle and may break. Most trekking poles could be made "stronger", but the cost would be that a high stress event would be more likely to break the pole which is a much harder thing to repair on the trail than a bent pole.
If you could perfectly straighten it out I'd agree, but this isn't a lab experiment. The pole will never be completely straight and will deflect more when an equal amount of force is applied to it. It will be weaker, which is what I see as I put weight on the pole after the incident.
many brands try their best to give as much back up as possible.
That typically changes following repeated customer abuse.
See the REI example for one.
Christoph
10-04-2018, 17:34
They will cover breakage due to user error? That’s pretty amazing. And don’t tell me hiking poles should never break. That’s bogus. If it’s deep in a big and you put a lateral load on it, that would seem to fall well outside the parameters of normal usage.
I tend to agree. I'd think if you're waist deep in a bog, this is not "normal" use so personally, I wouldn't expect any type of replacement/refund and bash customer service. Things happen though and stuff breaks, most companies are aware of this. I bought a cheap Ozark trail $20 set and they lasted me my entire thru hike. Worn to the nubs and I even broke the center section in the Whites. I was able to make the small end longer and the middle a little shorter. Put them back together and finished my hike. That was a long story, but I wouldn't expect wally world to replace a broken part because I fell on it.
Tundracamper
10-04-2018, 19:30
Exactly because they are only made for conditions normally found in hiking which would never include being anywhere near such a bog as trails are not built there, well I guess in hiking one may encounter such a bog, because trails are placed their sometimes, so yes hiking sticks should be able to take the activity of hiking, which I have to admit could and does include bogs. If they were not made for hiking trails then perhaps they need to sell them as walking sticks, but I have to admit if they are made for hiking they should work in such condition as one can normally expect on trail.
And one normally encounters rocks on the trail. So, you wedge your hiking pole between two rocks and bend it and it’s Leki’s fault? Now I know why these poles are so expensive. They are replacing poles broken by customers for free and passing on the cost to everyone else.
nsherry61
10-04-2018, 20:28
If you could perfectly straighten it out I'd agree, but this isn't a lab experiment. The pole will never be completely straight and will deflect more when an equal amount of force is applied to it. It will be weaker, which is what I see as I put weight on the pole after the incident.
Gosh, I've never tried this in a lab, but, it sure works great in the field. Obviously, your pole may be bent in a way that is not reasonable to straighten. As for "perfectly straight", all three of my once bent aluminum poles are now straight enough that I can't tell that they were ever bent including sliding into and out of the pole section above without issue. If you straightened your bent pole without kinking or denting the aluminum, and it is straight enough that it slides in and out of the other sections of the pole fairly easily, I would challenge you to compare the stiffness of your bent and straightened pole to your never bent pole. Since bending aluminum work hardens it, the once bent pole should actually be "stronger" but potentially more likely to break under a bending load in the future.
nsherry61
10-04-2018, 20:29
. . . They are replacing poles broken by customers for free and passing on the cost to everyone else.
Yep, that's the math.
SWODaddy
10-04-2018, 21:08
And one normally encounters rocks on the trail. So, you wedge your hiking pole between two rocks and bend it and it’s Leki’s fault? Now I know why these poles are so expensive. They are replacing poles broken by customers for free and passing on the cost to everyone else.
Or maybe... people buy a set of poles *because* of the warranty...then buy more and recommend them to friends. That's why I bought Leki instead of Black Diamond.
nsherry61
10-04-2018, 21:36
Or maybe... people buy a set of poles *because* of the warranty...then buy more and recommend them to friends. That's why I bought Leki instead of Black Diamond.
Yep, that's the other side of the coin. That's why REI failed in China when they tried to open up there, because Chinese people wanted the low initial price and didn't care about the after purchase service. And, that's why many of the big outdoor brands in the US are as successful as they are, they take care of us. BUT, it does contribute significantly to the purchase price.
I am wondering if sending pictures and trying to get a replacement for a none broken pole through the mail is what is at issue here. I say that because I replaced my own bent poles and a friends bent poles, three times during my thru hike. In each case, the outfitter held onto the “bent pole” and either straightened it or sent it back to Leki. They also where in the habit of “scavenging” clips and parts from one “bent” pole to solve another poles problems. I never had an issue with the warranty and loved my Leki’s for my Thru Hike. Wouldn’t choose any other pole.
Just Tom
10-05-2018, 07:44
I had a similar experience with Leki where I bent a pole and was initially told only breaks are covered. So I tried to bend it back. I dont know what magic methods you all used to get them straight, but my result was it was better than before but it still had problems collapsing. Eventually I got concerned enough about the wear and tear on both that segment and the one it collapsed into (you could see friction lines wearing into them) that I called (or emailed, I cannot recall which) and asked to purchase a new lower segment. They inquired enough to identify which exact model and segment I needed and sent it to me for free.
As for Komperdels, I wrecked the ends of a set in a hammock accident and was surprised when they repaired them for free as well, just needed to pay shipping to their facility.
So thumbs up for both brands.
nsherry61
10-05-2018, 10:22
. . . As for Komperdels, I wrecked the ends of a set in a hammock accident . . .
That sounds like an interesting story. A hammock accident that damaged your trekking poles. :-?
Just Tom
10-05-2018, 10:36
I was using them as spreader bars for a bridge hammock and I didn't get the tips aligned / seated correctly in holes. Was a backpacking trip too, so I had a long night on the ground.
saltysack
10-06-2018, 09:09
Or maybe... people buy a set of poles *because* of the warranty...then buy more and recommend them to friends. That's why I bought Leki instead of Black Diamond.
I heard BD had poor CS until I actually called for myself! They have been very supportive...just passing along as I’m very pleased with there products and CS....
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