View Full Version : Self Defense?
Stop beatin' off dogs and they won't pester you so much, Ridge.
Maybe I should stop doing it in the water sources, but the dog-hikers like the taste of the water so much better.
Skidsteer
07-31-2006, 19:45
Maybe I should stop doing it in the water sources, but the dog-hikers like the taste of the water so much better.
Okaaaaaay.
Please ignore my earlier requests for you to post photos of your hiking trips. :D
I agree with Amigi that a gun is just not practical for defense on the trail.
As far as protection, you should never carry anything anywhere that you don't know how to use - that includes a dog. If your dog isn't trained in protection, don't use him as protection. If you want to use him as protection - train him. Ed is not a protection dog; he is a service dog. He tells me when I'm about to have a mini-stroke, so I can get to a safe place. I have a hard time getting up sometimes from shelving books on the bottom shelf, so he's been trained to stand still, while I use him as a brace and for balance. Last night, he was pawing at my knee (my knee had locked up). He is way too important to me as a service dog to use him for protection. I need him to understand that in a danger situation, I am first defense, and he is backup. As a service dog, he HAS to be approachable, which is not a good trait for a protection dog. I don't want to confuse him by expecting him to be both.
Some people assume that the dog is supposed to know when to growl at people, like they were born out of the police academy, or something. The poor dog wonders why people don't like him, and he's never taught in such a way to get that positive feedback. That just encourages a dislike of people. On the other hand, as obvious from some of the posts here, some people should be growled at first, and asked questions later. Dogs are a very good judge of character!
Amigi makes a great point that a bigger danger, especially for women, comes from people who have your trust. Sit with your back to the wall, and use common sense.
Two Speed
08-01-2006, 11:25
. . . and use common sense.Frieden, a lot of good comments there, but relying on common sense just isn't practiced widely in this country anymore.
Amigi'sLastStand
08-01-2006, 11:58
Maybe I should stop doing it in the water sources, but the dog-hikers like the taste of the water so much better.
I'm so glad this guy is gone.
I'm so glad this guy is gone.
IM BAaaaaCccccKkkkkkkk!
Creepy Uncle
08-02-2006, 16:52
WOW...Hornets.
Guns, dogs and videotape.
Creepy are you or would you in any way shape or form be talking about the popcorn that comes in mason jars...or the kind that flies off the shelves at the trailer park general store on coon dog washing night ?
MY DOGS ARE BIGGER AND MEeeeeener and more most fiesty than yours...
My gun is ah cord strapped to my wrist just a waiting.......
BANG BANG BANG DE DEE DE DEE BANG BANG BANG..
Heck fire TARNATION.....I ain't gonna carry the weight of my 12 gauge on up them hills...I'll strap it to my pitbull 'stead. YES SIR REEEEeeee BOyChild
Hikin' t'is all bout being safe in dem woods, hills and Glens...
Scary Rabbits with HUGE TEETH....lirkin 'hind every tree and rock...just a waiting to git at my gorp stockpile....Sure nough' if'n i had me a wad of "Venture Food Peanut Butter bar...\I'd git myself might scolded fast by them bear and rabbits......why shoot gosh gimminy heck darn...if I didn't have my trusty 45 to blast em'......if'n I twas to be without the devils right hand.....I sure nough would be forced to throw popcorn at whar ever evil critter twas coming my way......
Well that there reminds me of a song....
goes something like this.....guess'n yonse 'll havetah imagine banjo pickin to go along with it.
"Popcorn Popcorn sticks like glue
Sticks to mean doggies and their owners too...
Burns through a village in a single flash...
Nothing left but bones an ash....
Popcorn sticks to kids"
And on a More serious note.
I'll happily stand by my choice to shoot a dog in the head and ask questions later.....course...eatting it would be a different story.
There......How do you like me now ?
The situation dictates.......Big, scary, mean dog....foaming at the mouth....big thick leather collar with 3 inch metal spikes........growling....barking.......leash....n ope....no leash...owner....not within sight.... BANG....which reminds me of another song..
"Happy Trailssssssss to you.....until we meet again...."
:banana BZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
PS.....Creepy I am putting my pack in the truck and heading out now....
11:34pm......
Here Maggie, Maggie Maggie Doodle Doodle Doo
Why carry a gun in the woods....
Well, When i have a bad trip I like to feel safe and simply blasting away at everything that moves make me feel better.....it's all about ME!!!!
If I'm happy....and my dog is Happy...Well, Reckon a few pieces of hot metal zinging round at high velocity causes some pretty neato trails...
"Guns, they're not just for breakfast anymore."
Well, it's just bout midnight...time for me to open the coffin and go out there and suck some blood out of somebody.
YEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeee HAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaWWWWWwwwwww
:eek:
[creepy injects dogvine growth hormone into his previously friendly 15.2 lb dog and creates a 200 lb muscle bound, hiker eating, spiritwind stomping super maggie]
hahahahahaha:banana
now i too can travel in the woods safely!!!
where does creepy hike?
anywhere he damn well feels like.
who can stop me?
nobody!!!!
see that shelter?
IT'S MINE!
ooo, i'm sorry, she's never ripped the head off a small child before. she's actually really sweet. leash? oh no. she normally comes when i call. shots? ???
so what you're saying is i now need to protect my protection with a slug loaded, sawed-off 10-gauge? fine.. my gun is bigger and louder. just let me get off the cell phone and i'll cook ya with my propane stove.
tasty vittles for tha maggs:D
Ramble~On
08-03-2006, 14:01
:eek:
[creepy injects dogvine growth hormone into his previously friendly 15.2 lb dog and creates a 200 lb muscle bound, hiker eating, spiritwind stomping super maggie]
hahahahahaha:banana
now i too can travel in the woods safely!!!
where does creepy hike?
anywhere he damn well feels like.
who can stop me?
nobody!!!!
see that shelter?
IT'S MINE!
ooo, i'm sorry, she's never ripped the head off a small child before. she's actually really sweet. leash? oh no. she normally comes when i call. shots? ???
so what you're saying is i now need to protect my protection with a slug loaded, sawed-off 10-gauge? fine.. my gun is bigger and louder. just let me get off the cell phone and i'll cook ya with my propane stove.
tasty vittles for tha maggs:D
:eek: 200 lb Spiritwind Stomping Super Maggs ?
Still no match for my rabbit with HUGE fangs
Amigi'sLastStand
08-03-2006, 15:27
IM BAaaaaCccccKkkkkkkk!
You shouldn't be j/a. Troll and Rock are too easy one you. Hopefully, you learned some respect.
Creepy Uncle
08-03-2006, 18:14
:eek: 200 lb Spiritwind Stomping Super Maggs ?
Still no match for my rabbit with HUGE fangs
YEAH? well...
okay i'm still working on that
but you just wait
You shouldn't be j/a. Troll and Rock are too easy one you. Hopefully, you learned some respect.
Habla usted inglés? CAN YOU SPEAK ENGLISH??
Amigi'sLastStand
08-04-2006, 02:09
On, not one. Yes, I do believe I can speak english. I can also type it, read it, and write it. And when I get drunk and stupid, I laugh; I don't put people down, call them stupid, or push their buttons, j/a. Learned any respect yet?
Ramble~On
08-04-2006, 03:36
:sun Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Joy Joy
:banana ......................... No Comment.
Koo Koo...Blue to you shmoo
Seems I had another one of "those" hikes.
Common sense. Staying out of trouble as best you can. Don't stir any pots of s***. Don't start things you can't finish. Don't carry the look of a victim. Things of this nature will keep your head on your shoulders most often than not. Just be careful.
"Constant Vigilance!" lol
oldmanwinter
09-10-2006, 01:34
If you really want to be prepared for a dangerous attack carry a knife and learn to use it.
I carry this guy. Hes my backpacking buddy (http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com/).:)
If you want to scare off a bear dont carry a gun, carry a couple of M-80s, or a string of firecrackers.
Or, the best...a howitzer simulator (http://www.skyhighfx.com/professional_effects.htm) ... this baby will cause bears, hogs and hikers to defecate themselves at the very least.
DeltaForce
11-09-2007, 01:44
I was just wondering if anyone here carries any form of self defense from wildlife while on the AT? I completely understand that the chances of ever being attacked by anything are very low, but I am sure there are some who just feel more comfortable with some form of protection. From reading some of the posts on these forums, I have seen some mentions of bear deterrent spray. I personally carry a can of Guard Alaska, and I will admit that I just have it to make myself feel more comfortable - I know the chances of ever having to use it are almost non-existent. So, who else here carries some form of protection, and what do you carry? Also, has anyone ever encountered a situation where you actually had to use it?
I dont know what the rule are but I would A knife
DeltaForce
11-09-2007, 01:47
I dont know the rule but I would have a knife
wrongway_08
11-09-2007, 16:06
Knife and dont forget those trekking poles, they are way more deadly then a knife and can defend against 2 attackers at one time.
Just learn a few skills with them and most importantly - watch your suroundings.
Spiderman-MST
11-09-2007, 16:11
I have had more problems with dogs than anything else - they thought I was dinner
cowboy nichols
11-09-2007, 16:24
A knife, an ex marine tought me how to protect myself. On a trail or at the mall my knife is ready. Last spring I had to fly and I felt absolutely naked without it. It was the first thing I took out of my luggage when I landed and the last thing into my checked luggage. I've used it twice and it was on human wildlife both times.
dessertrat
11-09-2007, 17:27
Sadly, common sense does not always allow us to avoid conflict. If only everyone ELSE on the trail had common sense too.
Ditto. People use catchy slogans like "it's no substitute for common sense", but how about "maybe not, but it's a good *supplement* to common sense."
This is somewhat reminiscent of that old "guns on the AT" argument. I personally have no problems with whatever people want to carry. I think a lot of people who criticize people for carrying pepper spray are just people who don't trust the average person to arm themselves, even with something non-lethal. That's sad in itself.
Full disclosure: yes, I carry pepper spray. Not a substitute for common sense, but a supplement.
dessertrat
11-09-2007, 17:28
A knife, an ex marine tought me how to protect myself. On a trail or at the mall my knife is ready. Last spring I had to fly and I felt absolutely naked without it. It was the first thing I took out of my luggage when I landed and the last thing into my checked luggage. I've used it twice and it was on human wildlife both times.
Dang! You must hang out in some wild places! Were these encounters in the woods, or in the "urban jungle"?
YeOldeBackpacker
11-09-2007, 21:08
Well, I was walking around the Dunnfield Creek area last fall (DWG), the heavy rains had washed out most of the Dunnfield trail down by the creek and there were re-routes all over the initial half of the trail. I came around a grove down towards a huge fallen tree by the creek and there stood a bear. It was about three feet to shoulder, rooting around in the enormous root bed of the fallen tree. It didn't notice me, so I slipped my knife out of its sheath and proceeded with caution. When I was about 4 feet from it and it still hadn't noticed me (the rotted roots and soil along with the scent of grubs had most likely distracted it) I lunged....
That bad boy lies half on my living room floor and in my freezer. Bear steaks are good if you get em on ice fast.
I made a point to emphasize the entry point of my knife and the clean cut across its neck as I disabled and killed that bear on the pelt
I had pics but they just didn't come out.
Yeah Right!
I'm bring my ex-spetsnaz buddies to watch my back and keep track of the concubines.
Average wage in 'stans is about $50 a month.
The chances of suffering human rights abuses are outstanding.
Your own deadly and hot entourage is priceless, but actually only $500 a month.
Knife and dont forget those trekking poles, they are way more deadly then a knife and can defend against 2 attackers at one time.
Just learn a few skills with them and most importantly - watch your suroundings.
I think that the trekking poles are stronger when collapsed. They make a nice club when collapsed.
Panzer
Nightwalker
11-12-2007, 01:32
Here's one for y'all to make fun of.
I believe that I'll die the day that God is ready for me. Whether I'm hiding in a bank vault, or walking on a mountaintop, it just won't matter. So, having said that, I live free of fear and enjoy my life to the fullest. I don't need a weapon, because I have faith.
Go.
Faith in your ability, planning, and foresight to successfully clear out a bank vault without getting caught?
Nightwalker
11-12-2007, 02:20
Faith in your ability, planning, and foresight to successfully clear out a bank vault without getting caught?
Not my thing. I don't really care a lot about money.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-12-2007, 02:55
Not sure how effective hiking poles are as clubs, but I have it on good authority (http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/169739/4/) that the off-set walking cane I use for hiking works really well as a weapon. Perhaps some of the techniques mentioned would work with a hikng pole?
dessertrat
11-12-2007, 11:45
Here's one for y'all to make fun of.
I believe that I'll die the day that God is ready for me. Whether I'm hiding in a bank vault, or walking on a mountaintop, it just won't matter. So, having said that, I live free of fear and enjoy my life to the fullest. I don't need a weapon, because I have faith.
Go.
That's why I go into the woods nekkid and without any food, and let God keep me warm and feed me, too.
wrongway_08
11-12-2007, 15:58
I think that the trekking poles are stronger when collapsed. They make a nice club when collapsed.
Panzer
I would practice with them extended, you want to keep as far away from your attacker as possible. The idea is to shove the tip through the wind pipe or in right below the shoulder- beside the rib cage - through all that muscle tissue.
Dont worry if the attacker grabs one, this will only give you more leverage to create a deadly injury to your attacker. If the atacker was to grab one, your best bet is to use the one he/she grabbed as leverage to gain enough force to shove the free pole through the bottom of the lower jaw and as the attacker falls back - push into the back of the throat (like you are aiming for the tree behind the attacer). As the attacker falls back, rip the one out of his/her lower jaw and the move foward with a hit to the chest muscle with the other one.
There are a ton of moves you can do but if you colapse them, the attacker can get closer to you. I dont think they weigh enough to effectivly club some one.
Johnny Thunder
11-12-2007, 16:04
I would practice with them extended, you want to keep as far away from your attacker as possible. The idea is to shove the tip through the wind pipe or in right below the shoulder- beside the rib cage - through all that muscle tissue.
Dont worry if the attacker grabs one, this will only give you more leverage to create a deadly injury to your attacker. If the atacker was to grab one, your best bet is to use the one he/she grabbed as leverage to gain enough force to shove the free pole through the bottom of the lower jaw and as the attacker falls back - push into the back of the throat (like you are aiming for the tree behind the attacer). As the attacker falls back, rip the one out of his/her lower jaw and the move foward with a hit to the chest muscle with the other one.
There are a ton of moves you can do but if you colapse them, the attacker can get closer to you. I dont think they weigh enough to effectivly club some one.
Go for THE GROIN!
and
THE EYES (It's a well known fact that the eyes are the groin of the face)
wrongway_08
11-12-2007, 16:26
Groin shot could back fire, easy for the pole tip to slide down the leg - then the attacker could have the advantage, not to mention use the sticks to strangle you with if you did fall off balance.
The eyes are good, shove hard - instant death.
Dont worry if the attacker grabs one, this will only give you more leverage to create a deadly injury to your attacker. Blah, Blah, Blah
If the attacker gets a hold of one of the poles it takes away your reach advantage and encumbers both of your arms. You would be seriously disadvantaged, and wide open to getting your ribs and face kicked in.
The smartest thing to to do is to try get away, unless you know what the hell you are doing, and to not attack anyone or you will probably end up worse off than you otherwise would have.
skskinner
11-13-2007, 01:58
That can of mace isn't going to do much good against the swarm of yellow jackets coming out of the nest you just walked across.
I agree with TN Hiker. The last time me and a friend were hikeing for five days through the Smokeys, we had only been on the trail a couple of hours and we got attacked by yellow jackets. They came out of the ground. We ran, and then Tom says, "drop your pack," and we ran some more but the YJ's never let up. Finally Tom and I stopped and killed yellow jackets for the next couple of minutes. We had to kill every last one, over a hundred. By coincidence, we counted out stings and we both got 29. It took courage for me to go back after my pack, and Tom and I were convinced that we may have just interacted with one of the first hives of Killer Bees. They were so agressive. If I swatted one off Tom without killing it I could feel the bee hit me hard, maybe that's what they mean by making a beeline. They immediatley turned and attacked again fling staight for eyes and armpits.
Later we talked to a ranger and he was asounded that the bees followed us that far, but they did.
Now for the recomendation. Tom is a medical doctor and had quite a bit of medicine with him. We began taking anithistimines immediately and took them for a couple of days; we went on with our hiking schedule.
When I got home I had hives on me two or three inches in daimeter and a quarter inch high that started on the tops of my feet and went within an hour as far as my chest. I called Tom. Tom came over with two needles and jabbed them into each arm at the same time, laughing his %^& off.
The punchline, BRING A LOT OF BENIDRIL.
HEY, The bears scare me too at least in the parks.
Mule
Johnny Thunder
11-13-2007, 09:28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fWfxrPQG5U
Has that been posted?
(This guy could totally fight a bear)
wrongway_08
11-13-2007, 16:04
If the attacker gets a hold of one of the poles it takes away your reach advantage and encumbers both of your arms. You would be seriously disadvantaged, and wide open to getting your ribs and face kicked in.
The smartest thing to to do is to try get away, unless you know what the hell you are doing, and to not attack anyone or you will probably end up worse off than you otherwise would have.
You would side step to the side of the person as soon as he starts to get a grip, this keeps them from getting a clean shot and keeps him trying to play catch up with you - keeping the advantage in your corner. The strike would be done quick, as you are side stepping him the next strike should already be heading his way.
I kinda think everyone hear knows that if you dont have the skills dont do it............... this is for the people that know what they are doing.
There are a ton of moves you can do but if you colapse them, the attacker can get closer to you. I dont think they weigh enough to effectivly club some one.
Try collapsing a pole and strike yourself just hard enough to see how much power is in them when they are collapsed. I was under the impression that they are sturdy enough to inflict serious damage. I thought the weight and hardness was there. You will be able to strike with 2 of them in a coordinated manner.
Panzer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fWfxrPQG5U
Has that been posted?
(This guy could totally fight a bear)
Christ!!!!!
Panzer
wrongway_08
11-13-2007, 17:08
yea, they would most likely work. I am used to the steel fighting rods, those you just need to hit lightly and they would crack a skull.
It would take some time to get used to not having the weight behind the swing, I feel more comfy using them open.
I feel more comfy using them open.
They are too flimsy and slow when open. You have more options when they are closed.
Panzer
That's why I hike with a 59" hickory hiking staff. Not only has it proven to be a good deterent against dogs but (hopefully) gives a two-legged critter something to think about.
of course, the more it weights, the better it will be as a weapon. But then you have to carry something heavy.
Panzer
I dont know what the rule are but I would A knife
A knife and two treking poles are hard to beat for anything up to a bear/cougar. So in bear country I carry bear spray as well.
just to be on the safe side, besides my knife i`m gonna bring my Gerber sport axe, and i start watching once a day this movie: The Patriot whit Mel Gibson:bse:bse
wrongway_08
11-14-2007, 15:32
Ahhhh screw it all, since I legally can, I'll just pack my gun.
Cant wait to see the look in those muggers eyes :eek: when they jump out with a big arse knife and I plant one between his eyes :D .
HHmmm, I might even collect all the knives from dead muggers and weld them together to make a kick butt hiking stick to remember them by.:cool:
DeltaForce
12-14-2007, 17:55
right to bear arms
That's why I hike with a 59" hickory hiking staff. Not only has it proven to be a good deterent against dogs but (hopefully) gives a two-legged critter something to think about.That would be my choice also. I might go 60" or more though, just to give you something to think about. :D
Hmmm, now where did I hide that 4" rubber tip?:-? :D
Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-14-2007, 18:03
right to bear armsYes, short sleeves, no sleeves, even topless for you fellows, is allowed on the trail. Hope that helps :D
Four armed is forwarned. Five is even better....
mark.k.watson
12-14-2007, 19:06
1. Mace, pepper, or other "bear sprays" are illegal in many areas. By
carrying them, many folks break the law.
2. They are almost never used.
3. Most folks don't know how to use them properly, and frequently end up
spraying themselves or others.
4. If a large animal (like a charging bear) is really pissed off, your spray
will accomplish nothing, even if you have time to reach and use it.
5. The majority of folks on the A.T. don't feel that these items are
necessary. The best defense against problems with animals in the
backcountry is prudence and common sense.
I already posted on another bear thread, but I'll add my two cents in here as well. Sorry if this has been beat to death.
Quoting Jack 1. Mace, pepper, or other "bear sprays" are illegal in many areas. By carrying them, many folks break the law.
I don't know on most areas, but I do know a lot of areas encourage people carrying bear spray. My knowledge is definately not from ther AT, but GTNP and Yellowstone. The spray isn't just for grizz, but blacks as well.
2. They are almost never used.
Yup
3. Most folks don't know how to use them properly, and frequently end up
spraying themselves or others.
AMEN. I saw one post on this thread stating that the postee has carried it in his pack for six years and never had to use it. This is the exact WRONG thing to do. There is no use carrying the spray if you can not access it in an flash. When I carried it It was on my hip belt and no where else.
5. The majority of folks on the A.T. don't feel that these items are
necessary. The best defense against problems with animals in the
backcountry is prudence and common sense.[/quote]
No argument here. I would not carry my spray as I do not feel the threat of a bear encounter is great enough to pack it.
I keep mace in my car for driving around the city, if you're concerned carrying something like mace might make you feel better on the trail...never hurts to have an ace up your sleeve. You're extremely unlikely to ever use it, but you never know...
Oh, and the mace isn't for animals...animals aren't dangerous. Ignorance and stupidity are. And the occasional person.
Toolshed
12-14-2007, 20:48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fWfxrPQG5U
Has that been posted?
(This guy could totally fight a bear)
Many of these moves are standard in Eastern self defense. In the course of doing our katas and other movemoents in Karate (Tatsu-Do), we trained continously with many of these moves and holds. They are not as simple as what it seems. It takes practice with another sparring partner to have smooth holds, correct grips and know instantly what sequence of self-defense/attack moves you will use.
It's not easy to fight either - It takes discipline to hit hard and keep the attack up without becoming emotional and losing your cool. Of course, with that said, once you have muscle memory and understand the physics of various holds and strikes from practice, even years later, you tend to do quickly the moves without really thinking about them. i.e you can see the opportunitie in a blink of an eye and take them while the other person is still thinking about grabbing your shirt or arm..... Great Clip Johnny...
SegmentHike
02-28-2008, 21:08
I not condoning it by any means. But i would be very curious if anyone has carried a firearm on the trial (besides hunters). It seems to me to be a little "overkill" but i am sure somebody out there has. Which makes me want to know about what percent of people do. I can imagine if anyone said they do, would instantly get verbally assaulted on this forum, but do you think it is something to worry about. I'm sure it's more prevalent then you we want to think.
FanaticFringer
02-29-2008, 00:52
I not condoning it by any means. But i would be very curious if anyone has carried a firearm on the trial (besides hunters). It seems to me to be a little "overkill" but i am sure somebody out there has. Which makes me want to know about what percent of people do. I can imagine if anyone said they do, would instantly get verbally assaulted on this forum, but do you think it is something to worry about. I'm sure it's more prevalent then you we want to think.
www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=31546&highlight=gun
Rockhound
02-29-2008, 02:08
so mace comes in a spray form now? wow! i took the other kind of mace last year. let me tell ya that was 12 pounds i didn't need
take-a-knee
02-29-2008, 10:53
so mace comes in a spray form now? wow! i took the other kind of mace last year. let me tell ya that was 12 pounds i didn't need
Thats funny!:)
Footslogger
02-29-2008, 11:04
[quote=Dave568;174127]I was just wondering if anyone here carries any form of self defense from wildlife while on the AT?
==================================
I kinda think HUMANS represent the majority of the "wild life" on the AT ...
'Slogger
Jason of the Woods
02-29-2008, 12:03
I think that humans are the main concern as well. I only carry a pistol because I am disabled and can't react as quickly as I would like with a pack on. I never carried anything into the woods on a hike until I hurt my back.
I personally don't carry anything meant for protection against wildlife. I prefer to rely on tried and true methods of avoiding conflict with wildlife instead. Conflicts with wildlife can be a problem, but almost all are avoidable without using a weapon. By the way, it's Severe Weather Awareness Week. Now there is a threat to hikers that I can relate to.
But I find the defense is the same. Just hunch your body up so you look as big as possible, and curse at the wind, rain, snow, or whatever, while quoting Henry Thoreau's famous words about living lives of quiet desperation. This technique has worked 100 percent. You often have to wait for the storm to perceive the threat. But every single time the storm has eventually gone away.
Best yet, any animal using the storm to sneak up on me, has been frightened away also. At least I've never been attacked when the sun finally comes out.
Weary
MoBill122
03-06-2008, 21:41
Only time I felt threatened while in the woods, a gun or anything else would have been useless. First off... gun would have been in my tent... and by the time I saw the critter, he was at the ZIPPED door of the tent. (Thank You Lord )
I backed off from my campfire... and gave him the camp for 30 minutes... and he finally left.
Yea... you guessed it...... SKUNK ! !
Hurricane
03-30-2008, 22:31
I posted it elsewhere but the AT in VA is close enough so as i can take day trips to Shenandoah NP and one place there is wildlife is SNP.It is almost like a zoo and is because the corridor is so small,all of the animals are herded into small pockets where being unseen is now almost impossible.Not once have i gone there on a trip over 3 days and not seen a bear.Twice i have been pretty much face to face and not once was i truly in any danger.It could be SNP and unusual behavior due to constant human contact but i dont think black bears are too interested in us.From what i have observed we smell pretty bad to them and without exception,i mean none,any close calls i have ever heard reported were instances where hikers have been attached to the food that the bears were after.Alot of pack mutilations and a few hikers attached pack swipes but from my own experience i think bears have pretty good common sense and are akin to us when faced with unknowns,the default is to flee(black bears anyway).Whenever ive gotten close or have had close calls i back off to a respectful distance but first thing,the immediate thing, is separating from my pack.It almost happens automatically as your head has already pressed the panic button but i know they smell the food.Once that is separated they still have to decide whether it is worth going after the food with you,the unknown possible threat,standing nearby.Ive had 20 minute encounters where the option was definitely considered by a large male but in the end it was alot of snorting and looking me over from a few angles to decide whether to chance the burrito.He didnt and left when another bear came up to see what was going on.For other parts of Virginia like GWNF or Jefferson i wont comment on as i actually havent seen a whole lot of wildlife there but SNP is not a problem as long as you use bear poles at night-ANY scrap of food keep it away from your tent,that includes cider/sugar drink mixes-and tie your food up if away from shelters.And dont freak out if you see bears there,even in close proximity if you dont try to get threatening and crazy it is an awesome place to view true wildlife and get a sense of what they are about.
And about guns,i own a few -a baretta storm,hk usp .45 tactical,colt .223 and a walther p99 but id say save it for the range.There are alot of good ranges in Va. and a place near ft.knox kentucky where you can shoot howitzers if you want but in SNP and other national parks if you carry(concealed carry permits dont apply in Va. NP's) it is a federal crime if you get caught.From a hiker and shooter standpoint i dont do it because of safety issues to me.If i fall there is a chance of the safety popping and/or primers igniting due to heat /abrasion or other factors i dont want to worry about when i am trying to enjoy the outdoors.I am also not going to jail and facing massive fines because of wildlife.Same for freaks/weirdos who occasionally feel national parks are good hunting grounds-ive met some sketchy people but never anything i would draw on but i do have a fish scaling knife that is always in the daisy chain pocket.That is what i carry-i guess it is about piece of mind so carry what you need to-the pepper spray isnt a bad idea as it is small and light and you can pocket it if you get into a bad situation but guns?For the range man,aint worth it and Ranger Rick in SNP will bust you if they get wind of someone carrying,since 9/11 they have significantly upped their vigilance past what they did in 96.
Like others said,use common sense and really do what you are there for in the first place, TO RELAX !
Deet comes in handy once you get into northern VA, you won't need anything but if something does come after you jab'em with your trekking poles. If you're a quick thinker, when being attacked, stick your hands down your pants,(front or back, doesn't matter), remove hands from pants and begin to rub them in the face of said attacker. This technique always worked for me but be careful, depending on how long you've been out there, this could be considered a lethal weapon!!!
Bee Stung
07-29-2008, 08:43
I just finished a section hike from I40 to Erwin and was tented just above Spring Mnt Shelter when a bear came close to my tent. I blew my air horn and it took off and never returned .
Bee Stung
07-29-2008, 08:47
I carry a small air horn
truthisnature
07-29-2008, 09:31
I carry Hades Blue in an easy to reach hip pocket, as a back up plan to any animal attacks when the unharmful ways won't work....love animals and know that I am in their home and prefer to do nothing to harm them...but I am not stupid and know things happen.(this stuff saved my uncle's life) As for the human wildlife that means to do me harm. I always stay current with self defense classes and once again the Hades Blue....which I would probably use on a human way faster than on an animal, even if he is in the process of leaving I would spray him, even just getting him anywhere besides the eyes will mark him with the dye and make him easier to identify to the authorities.
Homer&Marje
07-29-2008, 09:50
This deters humans from ever causing a problem, and if per chance in the slightest chance in the darkest depths of hell that i do get attacked by an animal, and providing I have time to get it out of the sheath on my sternum strap, I might have a tiny bit of a fighting chance. Never understood why people carry bear spray and strap it to the back of their pack, personally I can't even reach my camelback hose when it's back there:D When they find the body and roll it over they'll say "And the victim did have bear spray but unfortunately was unable to reach it in time"
If your gonna carry protection make sure it's available to you at all times, otherwise it's useless packweight
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=25665&catid=member&orderby=title&direction=ASC&imageuser=17846&cutoffdate=-1
I've seen a couple people mention firearms for self defense while hiking the AT. Regardless of what anyone tells you, keep in mind, you are ultimately responsible. Whether you're defending yourself or others from another person(s) or an animal(s), or you screw up somehow by, I guess, by dropping it or something and it goes off, you are the only one responsible for the firearm, and your actions. Best advice for anyone carrying on the AT is carry it concealed IF you are licensed, research and know the reciprocity states and laws in the States you're traveling through, and keep it concealed. Don't broadcast that you have it by showing everyone or telling everyone like a two year old and if you are uncomfortable carrying, please do not carry because you'll only endanger yourself and those around you.
I've seen a couple people mention firearms for self defense while hiking the AT. Regardless of what anyone tells you, keep in mind, you are ultimately responsible. Whether you're defending yourself or others from another person(s) or an animal(s), or you screw up somehow by, I guess, by dropping it or something and it goes off, you are the only one responsible for the firearm, and your actions. Best advice for anyone carrying on the AT is carry it concealed IF you are licensed, research and know the reciprocity states and laws in the States you're traveling through, and keep it concealed. Don't broadcast that you have it by showing everyone or telling everyone like a two year old and if you are uncomfortable carrying, please do not carry because you'll only endanger yourself and those around you.
You cross posted the same post in more than one thread, that is frowned upon around here. No need to say the same thing in more than one post, especially if you are the one that resurrected the dead post.
Virtually everyone that does carry a weapon legally on the tail already knows they are responsible and they don't brag about it or tell anybody they are carrying a concealed weapon. Also, It is virtually impossible for a modern handgun to "go off" by dropping it. Almost all modern handguns have an inertial firing pin block. The only way to get them to go bang is to pull the trigger.
I did not post the above comments for you. I posted it for other new members that have not been down this road on here yet. Posting like this is called being a troll, Only a troll joins a forum and digs up ancient controversial posts with no particular reason to do so, and then cross posts to get a bigger bang for their buck.
You started your post by creating a straw man with "Regardless of what anyone tells you, keep in mind, you are ultimately responsible", since no one on here has ever told anyone that they are not "ultimately responsible" that statement was needed by you as stepping off point to build your argument. It is a classic troll way to start a fight on the internet.
What I am trying to say is, don't be a troll.
Tri-Pod Bob
02-06-2014, 08:57
I don't post much on this forum, but...........+1 on bfayer's response!
Tipi Walter
02-06-2014, 09:16
Posting like this is called being a troll, Only a troll joins a forum and digs up ancient controversial posts with no particular reason to do so, and then cross posts to get a bigger bang for their buck.
What I am trying to say is, don't be a troll.
SO PLEASE someone close this thread.
SO PLEASE someone close this thread.
I don't always agree with Tipi Walter, but when I do.... :)
Close every thread that contains a difference of opinion.
Sarcasm the elf
02-06-2014, 09:56
Now how he heck does he expect me to carry my Hawken's concealed?
Close every thread that contains a difference of opinion.
Not at all, just the ones that have no purpose but to cause hate and discontent. This forum is not a freedom of speech free fire zone, there are plenty of other forums that specialize in such stuff. WB is about hiking not pointless arguing.
I understand this, like many other sites have their "troll" issues. No need for the rudeness, I was trying to be helpful without being pro or anti gun.
atmilkman
02-06-2014, 11:24
I understand this, like many other sites have their "troll" issues. No need for the rudeness, I was trying to be helpful without being pro or anti gun.
You did good.
Not at all, just the ones that have no purpose but to cause hate and discontent. This forum is not a freedom of speech free fire zone, there are plenty of other forums that specialize in such stuff. WB is about hiking not pointless arguing.Yes, why are some so intolerant of the items people carry on the trail? I don't understand the "freedom of speech" line. Again, are we not calmly discussing items some people prefer to carry on the trail?
HikerMom58
02-06-2014, 11:46
I just found this. It takes skilzz that, after reading through the link, I don't have. I want to have them though. I couldn't listen to the entire monotone style video at the end... :D
http://www.wikihow.com/Argue
HikerMom58
02-06-2014, 11:51
Yes, why are some so intolerant of the items people carry on the trail? I don't understand the "freedom of speech" line. Again, are we not calmly discussing items some people prefer to carry on the trail?
I think the problem with this and other topics like this is people feel passionate about the subject. So now you've got emotions involved. When emotions are involved, things get "heated". Also, if you already have certain feeling or emotions towards the person you are "talking" with, that adds another level of tension sometimes.
Bayer said all that was needed. If there ever was an example of deliberate trolling, this is it. When you consider the guy has made only 11 other posts and 2 of them are identical and pertain to a very heated topic, I think the intent is pretty clear. My apologies if I'm wrong
Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2
4eyedbuzzard
02-06-2014, 13:59
I think the problem with this and other topics like this is people feel passionate about the subject. So now you've got emotions involved. When emotions are involved, things get "heated". Also, if you already have certain feeling or emotions towards the person you are "talking" with, that adds another level of tension sometimes.Very much so HikerMom. That said, there are very few people who could legally carry a firearm for the entire length of the AT given all the different federal, state, and local authorities that govern the lands it passes through, and especially given that the trail passes through several jurisdictions and states with very restrictive gun laws (especially New Jersey and New York). For the most part, only active and retired law enforcement officers (LEOSA) could, again legally, do so. Whether or not people need to, or should be able to, is pretty much an unresolvable and very passionate debate.
Sarcasm the elf
02-06-2014, 14:08
I just want to point out that the person you are accusing of being a troll has only been a member here for two days. There is a very good chance that they are simply unaware of the fact that we have beaten the subject of guns on the trail into the ground on this site.
Son Driven
02-06-2014, 14:12
Coming to terms with my own mortality, has provided me with a sense of serenity. Any foe human or animal, all as I ask is that they take it all the way to the end with me, so I can awaken in my reward.
4eyedbuzzard
02-06-2014, 14:21
Any foe human or animal, all as I ask is that they take it all the way to the end with me, so I can awaken in my reward.
Quite.
"We'll not risk another frontal assault. That rabbit's dynamite."
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7_qPPbV8-QM/UCMgF7c7K3I/AAAAAAAAB5I/YzEfS13JIlw/s1600/Monty%2BPython%2BKiller%2BRabbit.jpg
I think the problem with this and other topics like this is people feel passionate about the subject. So now you've got emotions involved. When emotions are involved, things get "heated". Also, if you already have certain feeling or emotions towards the person you are "talking" with, that adds another level of tension sometimes.Here we are trying to learn a few opinions and confirming them with facts from other sources to form logical choices. Yet there are these passionate/emotional types that have an issue with choices that differ from their own - not exactly HYOH tolerant - are they a concern on the trail?
Bayer said all that was needed. If there ever was an example of deliberate trolling, this is it. When you consider the guy has made only 11 other posts and 2 of them are identical and pertain to a very heated topic, I think the intent is pretty clear. My apologies if I'm wrong The guy that joined 2 days ago? And what makes a thread "a very heated topic" - certainly not a difference of opinion.
I just want to point out that the person you are accusing of being a troll has only been a member here for two days. There is a very good chance that they are simply unaware of the fact that we have beaten the subject of guns on the trail into the ground on this site.
Really? the fact that we are on page 17 of a zombi thread didn't give it away? Or the other thread that had 11 pages? That sounds like beaten to death to me.
You don't run into 5 year old threads by accident. You have to go back something like 10 pages in this forum just to find 2008, and then with all the other topics that someone could bring back to life it was two topics about guns?
Having said all that, you are right. Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.
ALLEGHENY
02-06-2014, 14:45
I was just wondering if anyone here carries any form of self defense from wildlife while on the AT? I completely understand that the chances of ever being attacked by anything are very low, but I am sure there are some who just feel more comfortable with some form of protection. From reading some of the posts on these forums, I have seen some mentions of bear deterrent spray. I personally carry a can of Guard Alaska, and I will admit that I just have it to make myself feel more comfortable - I know the chances of ever having to use it are almost non-existent. So, who else here carries some form of protection, and what do you carry? Also, has anyone ever encountered a situation where you actually had to use it?
Dave568 (http://member.php?u=7944) asked for advice about self-defense against wildlife, not people.
This thread is eight years old.
bamboo bob
02-06-2014, 15:48
I have encountered 47 bears on the AT and other trails. (yes I keep count) and every one ran away as soon as I made myself known. In fact I have never even had time to get my camera out.
MkBibble
02-06-2014, 15:50
...You don't run into 5 year old threads by accident. You have to go back something like 10 pages in this forum just to find 2008, and then with all the other topics that someone could bring back to life it was two topics about guns? This would be really easy to do if he was searching the forum about guns and simply didn't notice the date.
I'm new and I did not pay attention to the date, I posted after the first one once I saw that I had posted on an old page. I joined this site because I've always wanted to hike the AT and this year I finally have the chance to do it. I was expecting to get a lot of good information, tips, advice, etc. not the replies I have gotten. It was an honest mistake, for that I apologize. As for repeatedly being called a troll...I'm a combat veteran, I'm not politically correct and I won't put up with being talked down to. Either be helpful or keep your trap shut. I will no longer post on this page and I'll move on to more helpful people.
This would be really easy to do if he was searching the forum about guns and simply didn't notice the date.
Why would someone search for guns on a hiking forum and then post telling people to they need to be responsible? Of all the things a new member could post about?
Like I said I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not politically correct and I won't put up with being talked down to. Either be helpful or keep your trap shut. I will no longer post on this page and I'll move on to more helpful people.
Then why do you expect anyone else to be politically correct. As for being helpful, your post did not ask a question or require anything to be helpful with. Ask question, people including myself will be helpful.
bamboo bob
02-06-2014, 16:12
I'm new and I did not pay attention to the date, I posted after the first one once I saw that I had posted on an old page. I joined this site because I've always wanted to hike the AT and this year I finally have the chance to do it. I was expecting to get a lot of good information, tips, advice, etc. not the replies I have gotten. It was an honest mistake, for that I apologize. As for repeatedly being called a troll...I'm a combat veteran, I'm not politically correct and I won't put up with being talked down to. Either be helpful or keep your trap shut. I will no longer post on this page and I'll move on to more helpful people.
I just take everyone at face value and not assume nefarious motives. So Gus, welcome to Whiteblaze. You'll find lot's of useful information here.
Then why do you expect anyone else to be politically correct. As for being helpful, your post did not ask a question or require anything to be helpful with. Ask question, people including myself will be helpful.Odd, when I read his post it provided information that some will find useful and wise. Isn't it a shame that even today people make assumptions and are not tolerant of different opinions. So much for hope and change.
Odd, when I read his post it provided information that some will find useful and wise. Isn't it a shame that even today people make assumptions and are not tolerant of different opinions. So much for hope and change.
Who had a problem with his opinion, I had a problem with his actions, I agree with his opinion.
Drybones
02-06-2014, 17:05
Odd, when I read his post it provided information that some will find useful and wise. Isn't it a shame that even today people make assumptions and are not tolerant of different opinions. So much for hope and change.
I'm tolerant of any opinion I agree with. My wife told me if she wanted my opinion she'd give it to me.
I'm tolerant of any opinion I agree with. My wife told me if she wanted my opinion she'd give it to me.
Does your wife know my wife?
Who had a problem with his opinion, I had a problem with his actions...
OK, if there is no problem with opinion, what is the problem with "actions" ?
I'm tolerant of any opinion I agree with. My wife told me if she wanted my opinion she'd give it to me.
Does your wife know my wife?
We are all married to the same women, they may look different, but it's a food chain thing.
OK, if there is no problem with opinion, what is the problem with "actions" ?
If you go back and read my post #323, I thought I explained it. Digging up controversial necro-posts, double posting about them, starting the posts with a straw man argument, and never asking a question. That all adds up to troll like behavior. He may not have intended it, but that is what he did. Most folks that are new to forums want to know when they are stirring the pot and don't get defensive about it when it's pointed out.
You have been around this place long enough to know that WB has a very diverse membership and the one thing that binds us together is our love for the outdoors and hiking. There are folks out there however, that love to see us go at each other over issues we don't see eye to eye on. Anyone that does a quick search for guns on here, and reads for a few minutes, should know that guns is one of those issues. That doesn't mean gun topics are off limits, but just bringing up guns to lecture folks on their responsibilities is not the best way to win hearts and minds around here.
I don't have a problem with anyone's opinions. In fact I greatly respect the diversity of opinions on here. But lets keep this in perspective, it was my opinion that the OP was acting like a troll, and you and the OP had a problem with that, but it was just my opinion. Like I said, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in his future posts.
Drybones
02-06-2014, 18:57
If you go back and read my post #323, I thought I explained it. Digging up controversial necro-posts, double posting about them, starting the posts with a straw man argument, and never asking a question. That all adds up to troll like behavior. He may not have intended it, but that is what he did. Most folks that are new to forums want to know when they are stirring the pot and don't get defensive about it when it's pointed out.
You have been around this place long enough to know that WB has a very diverse membership and the one thing that binds us together is our love for the outdoors and hiking. There are folks out there however, that love to see us go at each other over issues we don't see eye to eye on. Anyone that does a quick search for guns on here, and reads for a few minutes, should know that guns is one of those issues. That doesn't mean gun topics are off limits, but just bringing up guns to lecture folks on their responsibilities is not the best way to win hearts and minds around here.
I don't have a problem with anyone's opinions. In fact I greatly respect the diversity of opinions on here. But lets keep this in perspective, it was my opinion that the OP was acting like a troll, and you and the OP had a problem with that, but it was just my opinion. Like I said, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in his future posts.
You're doing a good job of making this point...cut the guy some slack.
You're doing a good job of making this point...cut the guy some slack.
I was just answering Roche's question, but your point is taken.
Game Warden
04-08-2014, 23:18
The only critter you need to fear along the AT is humans, Nothing in the woods will hurt you if you use common sense. I carry a Glock pistol , pepper spray, Taser, 2 pairs of handcuffs, and it's not for the wildlife.
My experience is clear excess weight. If you wanna carry make it a wheelgun. The otherstuff just clogges up without other excess weight.
It is important to note that statistics reflect what HAS happened, not what WILL happen. It was statistically improbable that two girls would be killed on the A.T, in 1993, but they did, now the 'statistics' reflect slightly better odds of that happening. When your talking about huge feral predators, anyone with basic brain function will recognize the danger element.
Hmm. Can you show your work on that? It never was statistically improbable, in that there is a definite probability that can be assigned to the occurrence of two independent events of known probability within a given interval. And, assuming that the events are indeed independent, one such occurrence has no effect on the likelihood of others. Everyone knows that Walt is the danger.
kayak karl
04-14-2014, 20:40
Hmm. Can you show your work on that? It never was statistically improbable, in that there is a definite probability that can be assigned to the occurrence of two independent events of known probability within a given interval. And, assuming that the events are indeed independent, one such occurrence has no effect on the likelihood of others. Everyone knows that Walt is the danger. post was over 8 years ago. i think they even forgot they posted it :)