View Full Version : Another insulating layer thread
MattSin97
11-27-2018, 02:06
Hey y'all, in the market for an insulating layer. I have been scouring the internet and I am overwhelmed by the whole process. I still have several months till I depart (March 19th), but I am trying to budget and get and test out gear beforehand. So here is the deal, I have it narrowed down to 3 choices, however, I am open to suggestions.
1) Mountain Hardware Super/SD stretchdown hooded: this is the only jacket I have been able to try on out of the three so far, I immediately liked the fit and feel of the jacket, but I haven't read much about the 2018 version and am a bit worried about warmth. Weight is not a deal breaker, although it is considerably heavy.
https://www.rei.com/product/136797/mountain-hardwear-superds-stretchdown-hooded-jacket-mens
2) Rab Microlight Alpine hooded: I have heard good things about Rab (outdoorgearlab.com) and other reviews and it seems like a solid buy, but I haven't been able to get my hands on one and actually see how it feels.
https://www.rei.com/product/137621/rab-microlight-alpine-down-jacket-mens
3) Montbell Alpine Light Down Parka: I've heard good things all around about Montbell products, but like the Rab, I haven't been able to test it out.
https://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=25010&p_id=2301261&gen_cd=1
My main considerations are warmth, durability, and price.
This jacket will be used for an AT thru-hike.
Additionally, I do have an REI gift-card ($100) which would make the Mountain Hardware & Rab 100 dollars cheaper than usual.
Any recommendations or general input is welcome, thanks!
Of those 3, I think the Alpine Light Down Parka is the clear winner. It's the lightest and least expensive while still being fully featured, plus should be at least as warm as the others.
4.8oz 800 fill vs 5oz 750 fill for the Rab. Don't know the fill weight on the MH one, but from the pics, it has noticeably less loft.
I hate the "I use it, so automatically recommend it to everyone" crap so often seen on the internet, but I do have that jacket, and like it very much.
Don't know how warm or cold natured you are, or how much insulation you need for a given temp, but IIRC, the clo numbers say mine should keep the average person warm at 21F. My older version has .5oz less down than the current one, so it may be a bit warmer.
Be sure to check Montbell's Closeout page when looking at their stuff. It's been a few years, but I think my Alpine Down Light Parka was $169 from there.
soumodeler
11-27-2018, 07:52
I have the Montbell and love it. Bought mine over 4 years ago and it has held up very well. Warm, packs down small, and fairly light.
For a puffy layer that you will rarely wear, weight and warmth are your primary considerations. Durability on ultralight gear is pretty suspect. Lightweight gear is fragile. You have to take care of it. You want to get a lightweight puffy because you will be carrying it, not wearing it...unless you are at camp, then you will be quickly eating and climbing into bed to sleep.
MattSin97
11-27-2018, 11:53
They say you pack your fears, and I am highly considering warmth in this category. I run cold, and this jacket will likely be part of my sleep system as well. Thank you for the replies thus far everyone. I was hoping Montbell was going to have a Black Friday deal but it never came, do they ever have deals besides the close out?
If you are planning to sleep in it, I would very seriously consider a synthetic option instead. Have you looked at the Patagonia Nano Air or North Face Ventrix? Both will dry significantly better than a down parka as well as performing better when damp with perspiration.
Feral Bill
11-27-2018, 12:27
For an in camp layer you would want something truly warm. Less nano and more puff. The Montbell would give you that. Tho wear when hiking, I'd suggest a fleece or nice wool sweater. Really, in likely wintery weather, you need both.
REI just sent another sale email for the rest of this week. You might find something.
Whatever you buy should be wind proof and sized to layer over fleece and or a good down vest.
I bought my wife and I LL Bean Down Sweaters on sale last spring. They were appreciated in Wyoming in May. At altitude. My wife wore hers all the time.
Good luck!
Wayne
Of those 3, I think the Alpine Light Down Parka is the clear winner. It's the lightest and least expensive while still being fully featured, plus should be at least as warm as the others.
4.8oz 800 fill vs 5oz 750 fill for the Rab. Don't know the fill weight on the MH one, but from the pics, it has noticeably less loft.
I hate the "I use it, so automatically recommend it to everyone" crap so often seen on the internet, but I do have that jacket, and like it very much.
Don't know how warm or cold natured you are, or how much insulation you need for a given temp, but IIRC, the clo numbers say mine should keep the average person warm at 21F. My older version has .5oz less down than the current one, so it may be a bit warmer.
I'd assume since RAB is based in Europe and this is marketed largely to that region they use the EU(Lorch) FP testing standards. The U.S. FP rating system ranks higher. The typical thought is add 50- 70 FP to the EU FP rating so the comparison should be thought 4.8 oz 800 FP to 5 oz 800-810 or so FP.
For a puffy layer that you will rarely wear, weight and warmth are...considerations. Durability on ultralight gear is pretty suspect. Lightweight gear is fragile. You have to take care of it. You want to get a lightweight puffy because you will be carrying it, not wearing it...unless you are at camp, then you will be quickly eating and climbing into bed to sleep.
I agree. You'll mostly be carrying any of these pieces not wearing them while hiking. You'll get in camp and at probably longer rest stop usage for about a month to 6 wks and then they all will be excessively warm and "heavy."
As far as durability the AT environment is not that abrasive so with a modicum of TLC you could do fine with less durable light wt jackets. These are all heavier Alpine versions for more abrasive demanding colder conditions.
1) I can understand the comfort. It's designed for alpining/mountaineering on the move use and often worn when sleeping and in camp wear. Again, great for those activities but not so much for backpacking the AT IMO with a March 19 start date. I do like the QShield for those sloppy AT NOBO starting conditions if you're intent on down but it's also available in lighter wt MH down jackets. Many go with super popular MH Ghost Whisper but IMHO you can get something like it at a lower price pt without introducing many ozs into the equation.
2) I like the Pertex Microlight fabric. I have the RAB non Alpine Vest version from like 2008. It still beads. I wear it in mist, fog, light drizzle, and maybe sleet as an outer piece for hrs without major loft collapse when backpacking on the move in cold weather.
3) Loved this jacket but went a different way for backpacking in slop. I'm very good at thermoregulation and layering but it was too warm even when fully vented to backpack in in nothing else but the coldest more dryer higher elev weather.
I've said this many times but I'll say it here for you again. What jacket IF any you take with your Mar 19 start date depends on your layering system approach (3 verse maybe 4 layers), how well you accessorize(hat(s), gloves, socks, even shoes) - they all play into warmth NOT just a jacket, what's on your bottom half, how well you thermoregulate, how much wt, bulk and cost are you willing to carry in often under utilized apparel, if you plan on actually being a mover(a hiker) for the majority of your thru-hike rather than spending more time stopped or in camp,...
As far as being part of your sleep system IMO you probably can go with a lighter jacket IF you bring other sleep system warmth adding techniques and gear into full play.
MattSin97
11-27-2018, 15:32
So far my layering system includes an REI midweight base layer, Patagonia R1 hoodie, and a marmot precip shell. My friend gave me his Kelty cosmic 20 sleeping bag, and I heard they run cold, which is why I'm a little concerned about my sleep system being warm enough and adding a warmer jacket to compensate.
MontBell Japan generally runs cheaper than the US site and I believe still ships free? Might be worth checking out.
MattSin97
11-27-2018, 16:46
I'm also open to any other jacket recommendations, I'm not 100% committed to these jackets exclusively.
MontBell Japan generally runs cheaper than the US site and I believe still ships free? Might be worth checking out.
There were a couple of threads on Mountain Project where guys compared down jackets from the Japan and US site. Apparently some of the products aren't the same despite sharing a name. Worth doing some checking on a particular product before going that route. As long as it's the same, though, the Japan site is clearly a bargain.
Seeing as how you have an REI gift card already, I'd take a good look at the REI co-op puffy's. They're a pretty good value and you can often find them on sale. I don't like to hike in puffy's myself though: down + precipitation or sweating don't mix well. I prefer to carry a heavy weight marino wool sweater to hike in cold weather even though it is a bit heavier. If I'm in camp and I get cold I just crawl under my quilt.
MattSin97
11-27-2018, 17:23
Seeing as how you have an REI gift card already, I'd take a good look at the REI co-op puffy's. They're a pretty good value and you can often find them on sale. I don't like to hike in puffy's myself though: down + precipitation or sweating don't mix well. I prefer to carry a heavy weight marino wool sweater to hike in cold weather even though it is a bit heavier. If I'm in camp and I get cold I just crawl under my quilt.
I won't be using it to hike in, just for camp and possibly as part of my sleep system for added warmth. I tried on the REI magma 850, but the fit was a bit awkward. I wish I was able to try on the Rab and/or montbell to compare but they never have them in stores near me so it's hard to compare.
So far my layering system includes an REI midweight base layer, Patagonia R1 hoodie, and a marmot precip shell. My friend gave me his Kelty cosmic 20 sleeping bag, and I heard they run cold, which is why I'm a little concerned about my sleep system being warm enough and adding a warmer jacket to compensate.
Having that REI mid wt with a deep 1/4 -1/2 chest zip adds greater ventability than a not zip med base layer.
The Pat R1 Hoody/Anorak is a nice piece. I bet you wind up hiking mostly in these two layers with the Mar PreCip standing by for additional core warmth decreasing convective heat loss. I'm so glad you din't say PreCip rain jacket as that implies only being used when it's raining. Even if it's not raining but cooler and /or windy add it into the layering mix making sure to thermoregulate/not overheat by venting and going at a more moderate pace. IMO we tend to think of only insulating pieces as the primary or sole warmth provider. Warmth doesn't have to be approached that way in a largely one shot heavier insulating core piece.
I'm glad you gave some greater detail. Those are three decent pieces for your hike to work from that offer on the move and in camp diversity for your Mar-late Apr conditions. It all the more means to me you could do best by a lighter jacket. That would give 4 decent torso pieces with different combinations.
Again, accessorizing well plays into greater flexibility in layering offering greater overall warmth. A lot of heat goes out through hands, head, and feet combined with the core.
I agree with your friend. IMHO too the Kelty Cosmic 20* runs cold. But if you have some light-mid wt synthetic or merino bottoms they might see use both when hiking and as part of your sleep system's warmth. There is no rule that says you can't use dry apparel you hike in also as part of your sleep system's warmth. Heck sleep in the dry R1 and PreCip and pants if it's available dry. Put the hoods up. Sleep wearing gloves and dry socks. Heck, if I was in a lean-to I'd use my shelter un set up as apparel or an additional layer. I might add in a 4 oz polyester or silk liner and aluminized mylar emergency "blanket"(underneath) for reflective warmth and greater sleep system warmth. AND, I'd use both draped over me on the coldest days as additional pseudo apparel...if only for 5 wks or so. There are an doodle of ways and techniques beyond just a heavy puffy that adds to a sleep system's warmth built around a conventional sleeping bag.
MattSin97
11-27-2018, 22:53
Having that REI mid wt with a deep 1/4 -1/2 chest zip adds greater ventability than a not zip med base layer.
The Pat R1 Hoody/Anorak is a nice piece. I bet you wind up hiking mostly in these two layers with the Mar PreCip standing by for additional core warmth decreasing convective heat loss. I'm so glad you din't say PreCip rain jacket as that implies only being used when it's raining. Even if it's not raining but cooler and /or windy add it into the layering mix making sure to thermoregulate/not overheat by venting and going at a more moderate pace. IMO we tend to think of only insulating pieces as the primary or sole warmth provider. Warmth doesn't have to be approached that way in a largely one shot heavier insulating core piece.
I'm glad you gave some greater detail. Those are three decent pieces for your hike to work from that offer on the move and in camp diversity for your Mar-late Apr conditions. It all the more means to me you could do best by a lighter jacket. That would give 4 decent torso pieces with different combinations.
Again, accessorizing well plays into greater flexibility in layering offering greater overall warmth. A lot of heat goes out through hands, head, and feet combined with the core.
I agree with your friend. IMHO too the Kelty Cosmic 20* runs cold. But if you have some light-mid wt synthetic or merino bottoms they might see use both when hiking and as part of your sleep system's warmth. There is no rule that says you can't use dry apparel you hike in also as part of your sleep system's warmth. Heck sleep in the dry R1 and PreCip and pants if it's available dry. Put the hoods up. Sleep wearing gloves and dry socks. Heck, if I was in a lean-to I'd use my shelter un set up as apparel or an additional layer. I might add in a 4 oz polyester or silk liner and aluminized mylar emergency "blanket"(underneath) for reflective warmth and greater sleep system warmth. AND, I'd use both draped over me on the coldest days as additional pseudo apparel...if only for 5 wks or so. There are an doodle of ways and techniques beyond just a heavy puffy that adds to a sleep system's warmth built around a conventional sleeping bag.
Thanks for all the great info, I really appreciate it. I was able to get the REI mid-weight base layer with a 1/4 zip. I was also looking into some mid weight bottoms, but I'm not sure which way I will go with those yet (Patagonia capilene?). Would there be any specific jackets out there I should have in my sights?
What are you anticipating starting with for your bottom half? FWIW, if I was starting on Mar 19 I'd have pants or convertibles and UL rain pants. Under that lower half scenario and even though I too push the temp of my sleep system with wearing bottoms I don't go very heavy on the bottoms. I have Pat Capilene 1 and 2 long bottoms but perhaps the less expensive versions I have work just as well(Hot Chillys, EMS)
Unless you want to start a jackets collection like some of us :D consider a broader spectrum of environments of usage than just the AT. It helps justifying the cost. That includes being worn when not hiking at home, around town, going to work, etc.
I will not get into a synthetic verse down debate but if you might be using a jacket in potentially wetter conditions(Pacific NW, AT spring starting NOBOs, etc) synthetic has made strides in closing the gap in performance virtues compared to down. In LD serial hiking meetings one piece I see so often is a low bulk light to UL synthetic jacket. It brings a lot of versatility to the table.
Understand I come from an UL philosophy apparel approach. I want diversity, low bulk, usage of all the torso pieces as often as possible and prefer 4 layering torso than 3 layer when its cold and mixed(sloppy) conditions. I'm also a consistent moderately paced mover without long stops or many stops. My day is spent moving so I'm consistently generating warmth. When stopping for the night I'm typically in my bag/quilt in 20 mins or less. Multi use non redundancy in the kit is embraced. This plays into apparel needs. This may not be your approach. So, I'm only offering these ideas for you to be exposed to them. I'm not trying to sell you on what I do or the gear I choose. Don't take from anything I said that somehow you're doing it "wrong."
However, I do surmise you'd receive greater potential usage if you went with a lighter wt non bulky jacket in a 4 layer torso approach without having to embrace hardcore UL philosophy. What Neo LD backpackers eventually realize is that excess unnecessary wt carried can have an impact.
MattSin97
11-28-2018, 16:19
What are you anticipating starting with for your bottom half? FWIW, if I was starting on Mar 19 I'd have pants or convertibles and UL rain pants. Under that lower half scenario and even though I too push the temp of my sleep system with wearing bottoms I don't go very heavy on the bottoms. I have Pat Capilene 1 and 2 long bottoms but perhaps the less expensive versions I have work just as well(Hot Chillys, EMS)
Unless you want to start a jackets collection like some of us :D consider a broader spectrum of environments of usage than just the AT. It helps justifying the cost. That includes being worn when not hiking at home, around town, going to work, etc.
I will not get into a synthetic verse down debate but if you might be using a jacket in potentially wetter conditions(Pacific NW, AT spring starting NOBOs, etc) synthetic has made strides in closing the gap in performance virtues compared to down. In LD serial hiking meetings one piece I see so often is a low bulk light to UL synthetic jacket. It brings a lot of versatility to the table.
Understand I come from an UL philosophy apparel approach. I want diversity, low bulk, usage of all the torso pieces as often as possible and prefer 4 layering torso than 3 layer when its cold and mixed(sloppy) conditions. I'm also a consistent moderately paced mover without long stops or many stops. My day is spent moving so I'm consistently generating warmth. When stopping for the night I'm typically in my bag/quilt in 20 mins or less. Multi use non redundancy in the kit is embraced. This plays into apparel needs. This may not be your approach. So, I'm only offering these ideas for you to be exposed to them. I'm not trying to sell you on what I do or the gear I choose. Don't take from anything I said that somehow you're doing it "wrong."
However, I do surmise you'd receive greater potential usage if you went with a lighter wt non bulky jacket in a 4 layer torso approach without having to embrace hardcore UL philosophy. What Neo LD backpackers eventually realize is that excess unnecessary wt carried can have an impact.
I've been debating whether to get convertible pants or just stick with a pair of running shorts that I already have. I would like to just take the shorts and rain pants if I can get away with it just to shave a little weight and money. However, I'm still undecided on this front as well.
I've been down the down vs synthetic road a few hundred times on my jacket search, I often swing back and forth, but I always lean towards the down a little bit more. The Rab X Xenon was looking good for a while, and I almost pulled the trigger, but I backed down once I started looking at other down options.
I will take your advice into consideration as I continue my search. As for now, I think I'm still going to take some more time, maybe step back from the gear sites, and come back with fresh eyes. I feel I might be sitting to close to the problem to see the answers clearly haha. Honestly, I didn't get the whole shaving a few ounces off gear, and here I am contemplating 2 0z.
It's my guesstimate most AT NOBOers starting 2nd-3rd wk of March wouldn't fare well with just running shorts and rain pants even if they had thermal bottoms. You'll get some teen's/low teens? and very likely sleet and snow switching back and forth to cold rain. Most will do short days or head into town under snowy, wet, cold and windy days. However, even though it's less likely to see it done there are those that would hike in cold dry AT conditions wearing thermal long bottoms under running shorts.
Ahh, just food for thought. No one can or has to know all the answers. You'll figure things out on a personal level as you advance/evolve. Clarity tends to become more accessible once on trail doing your thing.
You can always try hiking a few days this Winter to see what works for you in the cold, wet snow. Spend a couple nights outside.
MattSin97
11-28-2018, 19:21
You can always try hiking a few days this Winter to see what works for you in the cold, wet snow. Spend a couple nights outside.
I'm in California, our winter is laughable. I can pretty much always hike in shorts down here haha
I'm in California, our winter is laughable. I can pretty much always hike in shorts down here haha
Yeah...you are going to be in a rude awakening when you hit the Southern mountains in March. Sorry, shorts and rain pants aren't going to cut it.
Pastor Bryon
11-28-2018, 23:52
I just purchased the RAB jacket 2 weeks ago after considerable research. The fit is excellent. I'm 5'7, 180lbs, 21" torso if that helps - I ordered a large. The redesigned side panels and the hood are excellent. It is on the heavier side of the spectrum, but I wanted something with the hydrophobic down as most of my hiking is in the Mid-Atlantic. I also think the shell material is a little more durable and wanted 3 pockets
MyTrailCo is having an amazing sale on their down jackets, and that was my next option if the RAB didn't fit.
If you have any other questions or want pictures, lemme know. I'm happy with it. Got it for under $200 on a flash sale.
I'm in California, our winter is laughable. I can pretty much always hike in shorts down here haha
You can find cold weather. Even the desert has freezing temperatures more often than you might think. Idyllwild, Big Bear, National Parks along the PCT, TRT, etc. Lots of places.
48-72 hours of wet, wind, 35 F, or worse weather on the AT is grim at best.
Wayne
MattSin97
11-29-2018, 00:32
I just purchased the RAB jacket 2 weeks ago after considerable research. The fit is excellent. I'm 5'7, 180lbs, 21" torso if that helps - I ordered a large. The redesigned side panels and the hood are excellent. It is on the heavier side of the spectrum, but I wanted something with the hydrophobic down as most of my hiking is in the Mid-Atlantic. I also think the shell material is a little more durable and wanted 3 pockets
MyTrailCo is having an amazing sale on their down jackets, and that was my next option if the RAB didn't fit.
If you have any other questions or want pictures, lemme know. I'm happy with it. Got it for under $200 on a flash sale.
Wow, I would have grabbed the Rab if I saw it for that low. I haven't been able to see it for less than around 270 lately. I've looked at MyTrailCo because their prices are very good for What they offer. I heard that they are a kind of resurrection of GoLite which everyone used to really like, but I haven't seen many review of their stuff yet.
Of your original three the overall best for what's you've shared is the RAB Microlight. It's a nice jacket IMHO but personally only demoed the hoodless version on a two day hike. Again, I like my 08-09 RAB Microlight 800-820 FP down vest. It's toasty for a vest which I wear on early and late on shoulder seasons, and with proper layering, under light winter weather.
But if do re mi is a prioritizing issue the REI Magma 850 Down compares favorably. https://www.rei.com/product/137433/rei-co-op-magma-850-down-hoodie-mens You get what you want and save $130 right now using your $100 gift card paying less than $50 for the jacket.
Want less expensive down with a DWR try MyTrail 800 Down UL and Uniqlo.
https://mytrailco.com/products/down-ul-jacket-ms?avad=196286_f13ef67f9&utm_medium=aff&utm_source=157226&variant=44895197635
https://www.uniqlo.com/us/en/ultra-light-down-jacket-400504.html?dwvar_400504_color=COL03#start=6&cgid=men-ultra-light-down-collection
Also at REI I recently saw the Patagonia Nano Puff Synthetic jacket for $150-200. I'd consider this a strong contender if you can get it for a buck fifty. Applying your $100 gift card again you could nail another very decent synthetic for $50.
BTW, one other ancillary benefit is these all are 1.5 or more ozs lighter. They all could work for your AT NOBO.
Wow, I would have grabbed the Rab if I saw it for that low. I haven't been able to see it for less than around 270 lately. I've looked at MyTrailCo because their prices are very good for What they offer. I heard that they are a kind of resurrection of GoLite which everyone used to really like, but I haven't seen many review of their stuff yet.
CampSaver has some Rab Microlight's on sale for $144-174, and another 20% off with coupon OUTWNTY. If you said what size you wear, I missed it. You have to look at a couple of different listings on their page depending on which size you wear.
Pastor Bryon
11-29-2018, 10:33
This, too.
https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/fs-rab-microlite-alpine-black-men-med/
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MattSin97
11-29-2018, 15:25
CampSaver has some Rab Microlight's on sale for $144-174, and another 20% off with coupon OUTWNTY. If you said what size you wear, I missed it. You have to look at a couple of different listings on their page depending on which size you wear.
I haven't been able to find my size (Large) under around 270. If it is less than that it is usually from the U.K. I'm not 100% sure I need a large or medium though, so exchanges would get tricky coming from the U.K. I'm 5'8 and 170 lbs.
MattSin97
11-29-2018, 15:26
Very true, I'll keep an eye out for bad weather and see how the gear runs.
Campsaver has a medium:
https://www.campsaver.com/rab-microlight-jkt-jacket.html
With the coupon, you're only out $115. Worst case if it's too small is paying a few dollars of return shipping to put it back on their shelf.
MattSin97
11-29-2018, 17:09
Campsaver has a medium:
https://www.campsaver.com/rab-microlight-jkt-jacket.html
With the coupon, you're only out $115. Worst case if it's too small is paying a few dollars of return shipping to put it back on their shelf.
Whoa, I was just on there and couldn't find any. Shows how good I am at searching. Thank you!
sethd513
11-29-2018, 20:46
Camp saver is free return shipping if the tags are still on it. That’s what they recently told me
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It's free if you accept store credit. Otherwise they wanted a small amount for a jacket return. I think it was either 6.95 or 8.95. That was earlier this week with a Rab positron I decided not to keep.
Signpost
12-05-2018, 05:00
I'm in California, our winter is laughable. I can pretty much always hike in shorts down here haha
Try backpacking the lost coast in winter. It's a great place to get acquainted with wet, chilly weather.
I'm in California, our winter is laughable. I can pretty much always hike in shorts down here haha
The ski areas around Lake Tahoe are open.
Wayne
Try backpacking the lost coast in winter. It's a great place to get acquainted with wet, chilly weather.
Exactly what I was thinking.
wordstew
12-07-2018, 10:04
Rab Xenon is the best...
kevperro
12-13-2018, 21:48
The puffy is a camp layer only and most of your time in camp during a normal season thru-hike doesn't require heavy down jackets. Mine is about 8-ounces.
I view my needs as "moving wear" and "camp wear". While moving the vast majority of time (like 90+%) I only wear shorts + t-shirt. When it rains I often don't even wear a rain jacket. If it is cold I'll don a jacket to provide warmth. I do wear a baseball cap to keep my eyeglasses from getting rain on them which is annoying.
I rarely, wear much in the way of layers while moving. I hike frequently in cold rain/snow and if I'm climbing, I'm still in a t-shirt. If I am on level ground or coming down the mountain I might throw on a shell to keep warm. I play different games with my hands dependent upon conditions because I find my hands get cold first. In cold rain, I'll wear a long-sleeve synthetic top..... really thin layer because I don't like the way wet arms feel. If it is really cold and my exertion isn't keeping me warm I'll use a lightweight (used to be called 100w) fleece top. It will get wet and still function as an insulation layer and it dries in a reasonable timeframe. I've found a cheap $25 top to be better than the >$100 ones I've tried (I've been through plenty). I prefer a full zip without a hood. I carry a fleece cap which is more flexible/lighter and more comfortable that integrated hoods. Same with my synthetic shirt. I use a fairly cheap Terramar unit and find it is as good as anything I've used.
So... outside of the down all my stuff is cheap. I have the money to buy what I want and I use: Dryducks, t-shirts from Walmart, inexpensive fleece and synthetic shirts. My down puffy is a custom unit I had made for me though and at $250 it was money well spent.
Just my $0.02