View Full Version : UL PCT KIT, Help me add weight
fastfoxengineering
11-29-2018, 00:11
This is the beginning to my PCT kit list. I'm trying to keep weight sub 7lb base.
Weights are generally pretty accurate for what is listed and some weights are omitted for now. It's still a work in progress. As it stands it is a about as spartan as it gets for me. I would appreciate the experienced PCT hikers to mull it over and offer and advice if they can.
At the bottom I have a small list of gear I can mail to myself and swap out while hiking or I can change out from the beginning. Things like poncho tarp vs tarp/jacket.
There are some UL things on here that I don't want to change because they're not trip compromising and I'm doing some own personally testing for myself. For instance, the 8 carbon tent stakes. I hear very mixed reviews on em. I have 2 different kinds. Supposedly the best on the market. So I want to give em a shot. If they suck or a break one, tent stakes are easy to repace/make do without for a while. I'm also in the mindset of setting up my tarp/poncho as needed because I have my bivy. I understand the weather on the PCT can get gnarly. Especially up north. However, the PCT is known for cowboy camping. So if I don't need my tarp for the majority of the nights, I also don't need tent stakes. So I'm willing to carry the minimal, ultralight carbons. Like I said, my own research for the hell of it. No biggie to swap to a couple MSR's from an outfitter.
My biggest change would be swapping out the poncho for the tarp/jacket combo. Each has their merits but the tarp and jacket definitely has GREATER advantages over the poncho tarp but it comes with a weight penalty. I'm not willing to give up my windshirt. Also, If I were to trade the poncho for the jacket, I feel like I would want a rain skirt or similar for more leg coverage (the poncho drapes down far enough I believe it's all I would need). The poncho also acts as a pack cover. But I'm aware of the disadvantages of the poncho as rain gear as well. What would you bring and why? I'm not trying to go fast, but I am trying to go light and I do appreciate a little comfort. Imo the 7x9 setup is utralight and the poncho tarp is SPARTAN.
I'm looking into an UL battery bank.
You'll also notice I'm not skimping on worn clothing. Full sun protection is a must for me. I get FRIED due to my pasty white Irish gene pool. One of my hiking buddies, a triple crowner, recommended the OR active ice items. He used em on the PCT/CDT and loved the system so I'm gonna give it a shot. I also get a deal at OR so if I wanted to switch out clothing mid trip. I could order from OR and get a good deal on some good clothes. But for now, I really like my worn clothing setup and don't feel like I would want to change anything.
I'm pa cking super light in the carried clothing right as of now. Like I said this is a SPARTAN list. I'm in the process of ADDING weight back to it, but I want to think about it critically. If I were to add clothes back right now it would be a spare top/bottom and my fleece liners. My concern is getting dumped on with freezing rain in socal and not having anything to change into in camp. What would you do and why?
I'll add some more H20 bottles for the desert.
I understand this list requires skill and smart decision making on trail. I'm not saying this is the list I'm heading out with, this is an incomplete list that I'm playing around with but looking for some advice from others.
I've had too much time to think about gear for the PCT... what I learned is that there has to be very, very few people on trail with sub 7 or even sub 8 pound kits. You have to give up a lot and go with really light gear. After trying to get my pack weight down, an 8.5lb base seems cushy.
For this trip I'm also spending a great deal of time organizing my consumables. Dialing in my food is a whole other topic. But I don't want to sabotage my ul kit by carrying way to much food.
I could drop some serious weight in my backpack. I'm being conservative though. Will most likely get a minimal framed pack over a frame less.
Thanks for the help to all you experienced PCT hikers.
I want to hike all day on this trip. I don't want to hike fast or have to push to hard all the time. I just want to travel light and enjoy myself more without the burden of a heavier pack. Not trying to hike a blazing fast speeds but if I need to put in some work every so often I'm fair game.
Getting dialed in and planning the PCT has really helped with post trail blues.
https://lighterpack.com/r/cdxz0f
please don't yell at me if something is missing or inaccurate. this is a work in process, not the holy grail of PCT kits.
Fastfox
What is your start date / are you willing to flip to optimize mild conditions?
fastfoxengineering
11-29-2018, 01:38
Late April. Probably won't flip. Can add stuff in OR/WA as needed. Truth is. I dont have too much care if I finish the whole hike. Gonna head north and see what happens.
Freezing rain in SoCal with a late Apr start shouldn't be an all consuming prioritizing concern.
If you opt for a truly highly breathable highly ventable very UL rain jacket that doesn't even need to have a super high HH at a sub 7 oz I might leave the wind shirt/jacket home. MAYBE, once around Lake Tahoe switch to a very good DWRed very UL wind jacket. Once in WA while doing a moderately paced NOBO switch back to the "rain jacket."
fastfoxengineering
11-29-2018, 02:28
If you opt for a truly highly breathable highly ventable very UL rain jacket that doesn't even need to have a super high HH at a sub 7 oz I might leave the wind shirt/jacket home. MAYBE, once around Lake Tahoe switch to a very good DWRed very UL wind jacket. Once in WA while doing a moderately paced NOBO switch back to the "rain jacket."
What would your recommendation be for such a jacket?
fastfoxengineering
11-29-2018, 03:04
If you opt for a truly highly breathable highly ventable very UL rain jacket that doesn't even need to have a super high HH at a sub 7 oz I might leave the wind shirt/jacket home. MAYBE, once around Lake Tahoe switch to a very good DWRed very UL wind jacket. Once in WA while doing a moderately paced NOBO switch back to the "rain jacket."But why would I carry that with the pro poncho? I know you advocated the tarp over the poncho before. But something about that pro poncho is just bad ass to me. Cant say cam honan didnt inspire me.
Would you say the 7x9 + rain jacket combo is more sustainable for the duration of the hike?
I had an OR helium II. It really really sucked in any kind of real rain. I like my LHG silnylon but it gets clammy even with pitzips. I like it more than my old helium ii. I really like my montbell wind jacket. I dont have extensive poncho use and would like to get some experience with one. But if im gonna use a poncho as my rain gear, it might as well be my tarp. I dont think Id carry a tarp + poncho over a tarp + rain jacket.
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Have you posted this on Reddit?
R/ultralight will really go through it
You seem to be pretty experienced and have done your research. I’d say don’t worry and head out there, you know you’ll make changes as you go already anyway.
The only other thing I can think of is wouldn’t a UPF long sleeve button up like the silver ridge or Sahara be easier than wearing a Tee and bringing sun sleeves?
I have the same gloves - also a ginger. I’m heading out next year also and like a button up to vent the chest and still protect the arms
fastfoxengineering
11-29-2018, 12:21
Have you posted this on Reddit?
R/ultralight will really go through it
You seem to be pretty experienced and have done your research. I’d say don’t worry and head out there, you know you’ll make changes as you go already anyway.
The only other thing I can think of is wouldn’t a UPF long sleeve button up like the silver ridge or Sahara be easier than wearing a Tee and bringing sun sleeves?
I have the same gloves - also a ginger. I’m heading out next year also and like a button up to vent the chest and still protect the armsI've got three thru hikes under me but nothing on the west coast. I hiked the AT this year thru. But... Ive never been in the desert, never never been at altitude greater than 7,000 feet, and never been to the west coast. Ive been slacking!
Ill post to reddit as well.
Ive hiked in a button up for a while now. Honestly I just want to try something new. I know someone who used the t shirt + sun sleeves on the PCT and CDT and loved them over a button up. He is also fair skinned and roasts in the sun. He really like the versatility as well. Ive got a bunch of hikng shirts at home. I can switch out easily if need be. A new shirt is also easily obtained on trail so im not too worried about it. Plus everyone has a silver ridge, dare to be different i say?
Thanks for the input
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But why would I carry that with the pro poncho? I know you advocated the tarp over the poncho before. But something about that pro poncho is just bad ass to me. Cant say cam honan didnt inspire me.
You wouldn't. Yeah, the MLD DCF Poncho is a nice piece but not so much for the PCT with your start date but I could be wrong as I have little experience wearing poncho tarps. You'll be more concerned about being too hot not staying dry at least for the Mojave Desert and going forward through OR. I don't see you wearing that MB Tachyon under the MLD Pro DCF Poncho much if at all with your start date with a tee baselayer. For other wetter humid hikes yeah but not the PCT with your start having both those pieces. That combo could work for WA though if you've dallied. I don't know how you expect to use the poncho in your sleep system but I wouldn't wear a dry poncho inside my Zpacks 10* bag. With that 10* bag, CCF pad and a MLD Superlight, MB Dynamo and MB Tachyon you already have more than enough warmth in your sleep system, probably too much warmth. So, the poncho falls back to becoming primarily a tarp or heavy groundcloth.
Yeah Cam is inspiring but we each need to make our own way.
Would you say the 7x9 + rain jacket combo is more sustainable for the duration of the hike?
Yes, from my experience. But, again you have a different layering multi use set up than myself. If I did stay with the 10* ZP bag and have that size tarp coverage I'd drop the MLD Superlight at around TM.
I had an OR helium II. It really really sucked in any kind of real rain. I like my LHG silnylon but it gets clammy even with pitzips. I like it more than my old helium ii. I really like my montbell wind jacket.
Those are three very different pieces with different attributes! - a breathable WP rain jacket that IMHO isn't tremendously breathable despite OR and Pertex Shield+ spec claims(I'm on my second Helium 2, I ONLY use it when it's cold), a totally non breathable LHG silny but highly WP jacket but with ventability(pit zips, etc), and a DWRed MB Wind jacket(I had/have two versions, I like and have the version with the more breathable mesh under arm side panels)
I dont have extensive poncho use and would like to get some experience with one.
I don't know if a PCT NOBO with a late Apr start date is the best place to gain that poncho experience.
But if im gonna use a poncho as my rain gear, it might as well be my tarp.
Let's reverse that. What if your 6 oz 7x9 DCF tarp could be used on the rare occasion rain was an issue draped over a MB Tachyon and as a ground clothe? And, you have a MLD Superlight bivy to throw in the mix too. FWIW, ponder Ron's usage for the Superlight. When I have one of my two mixed into the kit equation I try to hit on all nine of his written functions. https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/mld-superlight-solo-bivy/
I dont think Id carry a tarp + poncho over a tarp + rain jacket.
I concur.
But why would I carry that with the pro poncho? I know you advocated the tarp over the poncho before. But something about that pro poncho is just bad ass to me. Cant say cam honan didnt inspire me.
You wouldn't. Yeah, the MLD DCF Poncho is a nice piece but not so much for the PCT with your start date but I could be wrong as I have little experience wearing poncho tarps. You'll be more concerned about being too hot not staying dry at least for the Mojave Desert and going forward through OR. I don't see you wearing that MB Tachyon under the MLD Pro DCF Poncho much if at all with your start date with a tee baselayer. For other wetter humid hikes yeah but not the PCT with your start having both those pieces. That combo could work for WA though if you've dallied. I don't know how you expect to use the poncho in your sleep system but I wouldn't wear a dry poncho inside my Zpacks 10* bag. With that 10* bag, CCF pad and a MLD Superlight, MB Dynamo and MB Tachyon you already have more than enough warmth in your sleep system, probably too much warmth. So, the poncho falls back to becoming primarily a tarp or heavy groundcloth.
Would you say the 7x9 + rain jacket combo is more sustainable for the duration of the hike?
Yes, from my experience. But, again you have a different layering multi use set up approach than myself. If I did stay with the 10* ZP bag and have that size tarp coverage I'd drop the MLD Superlight at around TM.
I had an OR helium II. It really really sucked in any kind of real rain. I like my LHG silnylon but it gets clammy even with pitzips. I like it more than my old helium ii. I really like my montbell wind jacket.
Those are three very different pieces with different attributes! - a breathable WP rain jacket that IMHO isn't tremendously breathable despite OR and Pertex Shield+ spec claims(I'm on my second Helium 2, I ONLY use it when it's cold), a totally non breathable LHG silny but highly WP jacket but with ventability(pit zips, etc), and a DWRed MB Wind jacket(I had/have two versions, I like and have the version with the more breathable mesh under arm side panels)
I dont have extensive poncho use and would like to get some experience with one.
I don't know if a PCT NOBO with a late Apr start date is the best place to gain that poncho experience.
But if im gonna use a poncho as my rain gear, it might as well be my tarp.
Let's reverse that. What if your 6 oz 7x9 DCF tarp could be used on the rare occasion rain was an issue draped over a MB Tachyon and as a ground clothe? And, you have a MLD Superlight bivy to throw in the mix too. FWIW, ponder Ron's usage for the Superlight. Whne I hav eone of my two mixed into the kit equation I try to hit on all nine of his written functions
I dont think Id carry a tarp + poncho over a tarp + rain jacket.
I concur.
fastfoxengineering
11-29-2018, 16:48
1. To be part of a total sleep heat retention system, adding 5 – 15 degrees of warmth, especially when even a slight wind gets under and around your shelter.
After reading Cam's experience with his superlights, 5-8* is let's say realistic. The only way I could take advantage of this, while dropping some weight is going to lighter quilt. I would love to pick up a Palisade 30* but... $ says no right now. That would drop a 1/4 lb and utilize the bivy to its full potential. I would feel comfortable using this quilt the whole trip. If I had a 22* or a 30* Katabatic, it would be the quilt i would take. Palisade 30 would be real nice and I think would make most sense in my sleep setup.
2. Bug protection.
The superlight is imo the next step up from a head net. It IS bug pro. All be it, not everyones cup of tea. In camp, I can also put on my wind layers if the mozzies are ferocious. I talked to Ron too, sawyer permethrin spray on is encouraged and a GOOD idea. I'm wanting to push my comfort zone a little. It also doesn't put much space, but does put a piece of fabric between me and the creepy crawlies.
3. Built in ground cloth.
I was actually struggling with this one. It would make sense to me to bring another ground cloth for even the bivy. Polycryo is superlight. I don't really have any other uses for it though. I could wrap myself up in it? It would keep camp/bivy a little cleaner. Another WP layer between me and the ground.
4. To protect from any blown or splashed rain /snow that gets in under your overhead shelter.
Paired with a tarp, for sure.
5. To shave weight from a total shelter system. It’s a 7 oz multi-purpose piece of gear that allows for a lighter sleeping bag, a smaller overhead shelter, and no ground cloth, or extra bug protection system.
I don't want to buy a lighter sleeping bag right now. Have a small overhead shelter. Doing my best to leave the ground cloth at home (luxurious!), and willing to have the minimalist bug pro for sleeping.
6. It can be used alone for night temps above about 65 degrees when you do not need a sleeping bag but do need some wind/water protection. It adds a bit of warmth (like a sheet.)
Makes sense to me.
7. It can be used alone, with no overhead tarp, for cowboy camping.
Primary reason I'm carrying it. I plan on cowboying it ever night i can. Fast, clean, efficient camp with some protection. Not just completely in the open.
8. It pairs perfectly with a backcountry-style quilt to limit warm air venting during night moves.
Wish my Zpacks was a true back country quilt to shave an ounce or so. I never zip it up. And can't imagine doing so in the bivy.
9. By putting your sleep pad inside the bivy you increase the sleep pads thermal efficiency by limiting convective heat loss.
I believe it.
I think the only way to optimize my sleep system is with a lighter quilt. Unfortunately, that's a big ticket item as of right and plan on using what I have.
lonehiker
11-29-2018, 17:48
9. By putting your sleep pad inside the bivy you increase the sleep pads thermal efficiency by limiting convective heat loss.[FONT=Abel, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida, sans-serif][COLOR=#000000]
So that I understand this concept better, wouldn't this be conductive heat loss? The protection from the bivy prevents the flow of air across the body so the heat loss would be from the bodies contact with the pad/ground? Isn't this conduction as opposed to convection? Also, I can't believe that the pad inside or outside a bivy would make a measureable difference? Has anyone tried both and can make observation that there was a difference?
You have really pared this down to the nub (and beyond). I presume you have much experience sleeping in a bivvy and like it. That would be my main issue with your system - I have tried bivvy sleeping and just can't stand bivvies. Too confining and too moisture-retaining/trapping for me. I would want some kind of shaped tarp over me with room to sit up and adequate bug and rain protection for me and my pad and quilt. I guess I'll also point out that if your rain gear is also your shelter, you need to make sure it does not sustain any significant damage when in rain gear mode, and you need to figure out how you will set up and/or take down camp in the rain. When I used a Gatewood Cape as both, I would sometimes bring a really crappy very light plastic poncho (sub 2 oz), just so that I had something to use when outside my poncho shelter in the rain.
fastfoxengineering
11-29-2018, 18:59
9. By putting your sleep pad inside the bivy you increase the sleep pads thermal efficiency by limiting convective heat loss.[FONT=Abel, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida, sans-serif][COLOR=#000000]
So that I understand this concept better, wouldn't this be conductive heat loss? The protection from the bivy prevents the flow of air across the body so the heat loss would be from the bodies contact with the pad/ground? Isn't this conduction as opposed to convection? Also, I can't believe that the pad inside or outside a bivy would make a measureable difference? Has anyone tried both and can make observation that there was a difference?
Well technically if any moving air is in contact with the sleeping pad it'll be convective heat loss. So cowboy camping and the wind blowing around you is going reduce the thermal efficiency of your pad. Substantial? probably not. But I have hear ALOT of people say that when sleeping in AT shelters, they're inflatables seem colder. Probably due to lots of cold convective drafts underneath the shelter.
fastfoxengineering
11-29-2018, 19:13
You have really pared this down to the nub (and beyond). I presume you have much experience sleeping in a bivvy and like it. That would be my main issue with your system - I have tried bivvy sleeping and just can't stand bivvies. Too confining and too moisture-retaining/trapping for me. I would want some kind of shaped tarp over me with room to sit up and adequate bug and rain protection for me and my pad and quilt. I guess I'll also point out that if your rain gear is also your shelter, you need to make sure it does not sustain any significant damage when in rain gear mode, and you need to figure out how you will set up and/or take down camp in the rain. When I used a Gatewood Cape as both, I would sometimes bring a really crappy very light plastic poncho (sub 2 oz), just so that I had something to use when outside my poncho shelter in the rain.
I met an individual on the AT this year that I hiked with off/on for a few hundred miles. He was an older fella with the tiniest pack I've ever seen. He was going Key West to Canada as a "training" hike. He was about 6'2" and his primary shelter was a silnylon MLD pro poncho. The thing had like 7500 miles on it. He used it on the ground AND as a hammock tarp for a few weeks.
I asked him about setting up in the rain. "I just wait for a break in the rain" Usually make a cup of coffee until the rain breaks lol... He would stop and make like 6 cups of coffee a day on an old esbit stove with a vienna sausage can as his cookpot.
He didn't even carry tent pegs and used his environment around him. I was envious.
I actually asked him if he would buy another MLD pro poncho. He said yes and wouldnt have it any other way. I asked if you would get DCF. He said probably not because its too much for his taste buds. Also he believes the silnylon poncho would last (his is still going strong) much longer than the DCF version for extra wear and tear from wearing it.
He had some really light nylon straps rather than cord for guylines.. it was his new preferred method.
I have that in the back of my mind as well. It would suck to rub holes, poke holes, tear, or whatever in Poncho mode and at the same time your damaging your already minimal shelter. .75 DCF cuben may be pretty damn durable as a tarp.. but as a shell.... eh, I can see its life dwindling if needed as a Poncho a lot.
It is something to consider.
However, he did tell me he can pack his bag and undo his tieouts from under his tarp in the am... and stand up into the hood, without ever getting wet. I wanted to see him do it and he told me he would demonstrate.... but he had a habit of getting up at 4am and start walking.
One day we camped together and when I woke he was gone, never saw him again.
Bad ass dude.
lonehiker
11-29-2018, 19:31
Well technically if any moving air is in contact with the sleeping pad it'll be convective heat loss. So cowboy camping and the wind blowing around you is going reduce the thermal efficiency of your pad. Substantial? probably not. But I have hear ALOT of people say that when sleeping in AT shelters, they're inflatables seem colder. Probably due to lots of cold convective drafts underneath the shelter.
This question was within the context of using a bivy.
1. To be part of a total sleep heat retention system, adding 5 – 15 degrees of warmth, especially when even a slight wind gets under and around your shelter.
After reading Cam's experience with his superlights, 5-8* is let's say realistic. The only way I could take advantage of this, while dropping some weight is going to lighter quilt. I would love to pick up a Palisade 30* but... $ says no right now. That would drop a 1/4 lb and utilize the bivy to its full potential. I would feel comfortable using this quilt the whole trip. If I had a 22* or a 30* Katabatic, it would be the quilt i would take. Palisade 30 would be real nice and I think would make most sense in my sleep setup.
Exactly what I would consider. Go with either Kat 22* Alsek or the 30* Palisade or EE or other cheaper alternative in those round about temp ratings in a quilt the whole thru. You'd take greater advantage of the bivy addition. After 11 yrs using the Superlight in it's evolving versions I agree with Cam's spot on warmth increasing assessments. BTW, what's your ZP 10* length? I'm considering an XL in the reg width with the 3/4 zip. Lemme know. PM. I have bags and quilts in great shape to trade IF teh ZP 10* was well taken care of and never machine washed. Lemme know your bag/quilt quiver.
2. Bug protection.
The superlight is imo the next step up from a head net. It IS bug pro. All be it, not everyones cup of tea. In camp, I can also put on my wind layers if the mozzies are ferocious. I talked to Ron too, sawyer permethrin spray on is encouraged and a GOOD idea. I'm wanting to push my comfort zone a little. It also doesn't put much space, but does put a piece of fabric between me and the creepy crawlies.
It's much more than a 2 oz head net! This and #1 go together. When the mozzies are at their height the temps tend to be warmer. What are you going to do with a 10* bag/quilt hybrid? It becomes overkill using both these, the MLD Superlight and ZP bag together = SWEATFEST!!! At that stage if you continue rocking the 10* ZP bag then a lighter more sensible approach is a head net and covering up bare skin in your sleep combined with permethrin.
3. Built in ground cloth.
I was actually struggling with this one. It would make sense to me to bring another ground cloth for even the bivy. Polycryo is superlight. I don't really have any other uses for it though. I could wrap myself up in it? It would keep camp/bivy a little cleaner. Another WP layer between me and the ground.
It is OK to add especially if your Superlight has the .75 DCF bottom. You dont want to poke holes in it only to find out later when you need a WP bottom. Polycro rips easily and isn't ripstop. The food grade stuff is better if you want to drape as apparel.
4. To protect from any blown or splashed rain /snow that gets in under your overhead shelter.
Paired with a tarp, for sure.
In my calculations if I'm looking to save wt and bulk I want to maximize usage of everything. If a Superlight is part of the protection and warmth equation I want a minimalist tarp for a PCT NOBO late April start. Once one gets into a 7x9 tarp and greater sized coverage in the hands of an experienced tarper one has increasingly less need for splash protection in the context of this PCT hike. If I'm going to be taking that extra 6-8 oz WR bivy I want to maximize it's usage in every way possible! If I'm not than a decent coverage sized DCF tarp of adequate coverage is probably lighter wt than a med coverage tarp and bivy combo.
fastfoxengineering
11-29-2018, 19:59
This question was within the context of using a bivy.Well if your pad is inside the bivy then the bivy would deflect wind and therefore reduce convective heat loss.
i always here people say the superlight is like a really nice wind shell for your sleep system.
Trapping in a little warmth and deflecting the wind from robbing your heat.
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5. To shave weight from a total shelter system. It’s a 7 oz multi-purpose piece of gear that allows for a lighter sleeping bag, a smaller overhead shelter, and no ground cloth, or extra bug protection system.
I don't want to buy a lighter sleeping bag right now. Have a small overhead shelter. Doing my best to leave the ground cloth at home (luxurious!), and willing to have the minimalist bug pro for sleeping.
Ron sells it well IMO based on many Superlight Bivy nights being added into not only the shelter system but the sleep system. It's multi functional.
6. It can be used alone for night temps above about 65 degrees when you do not need a sleeping bag but do need some wind/water protection. It adds a bit of warmth (like a sheet.)
Makes sense to me.
OK, but what if you're also carrying along a quilt or bag during those 65* and up nights? Especially if that bag or quilt has a temp rating 30-45* colder than 65*? That's wt, gear, bulk complexity overload.
7. It can be used alone, with no overhead tarp, for cowboy camping.
Primary reason I'm carrying it. I plan on cowboying it ever night i can. Fast, clean, efficient camp with some protection. Not just completely in the open.
On a PCT late April start with your east coast LD experiences I see that happening 85-95% of your sleep. Therefore minimize your tarp wt and coverage.
8. It pairs perfectly with a backcountry-style quilt to limit warm air venting during night moves.
Wish my Zpacks was a true back country quilt to shave an ounce or so. I never zip it up. And can't imagine doing so in the bivy.
In my Kat and EE zipperless quilts one of the advantages is having less drafts using the Superlight. I toss from side to side to back much of the night. Thinking of Kate Beckinsale in her form fitting Goth vamp suit seeking my sweet warm Lycan neck jugular I eventually get to sleep though.
9. By putting your sleep pad inside the bivy you increase the sleep pads thermal efficiency by limiting convective heat loss.
I believe it.
Watch you don't compress bag/quilt, sleeping cloths, etc though.
I asked him about setting up in the rain. "I just wait for a break in the rain" Usually make a cup of coffee until the rain breaks lol... He would stop and make like 6 cups of coffee a day on an old esbit stove with a vienna sausage can as his cookpot.
I've so often experienced non stop rain on the east coast backpacking trips and the AT for 3 or more days. So no wonder he was in the habit of getting up at 4am and start walking.;)
fastfoxengineering
11-29-2018, 20:38
I think the superlight and a true quilt go hand in hand. Cowboying with a quilt in the open doesnt sound like I'd enjoy it on the regular. Id rather have a bag if I was always sleeping in the open.
I'm 5'8". 150lbs. I bought a large superlight to make sure I wasnt compressing anything. Ron recommends this especially if using an xlite. Idk if ik bringing my xlite, but if i do i need not worry.
I definitely think ill kick myself without a simple ground sheet. I like a clean camp and to take care of my stuff. I wouldnt want to to put my DCF tarp on the ground due to $. Ill add the polycro pack. Have you found a ground sheet under the bivy helps reduce condensation/adds warmth etc.
But... thats breaking one of Rons 10 commandments of the superlight lol.
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fastfoxengineering
11-29-2018, 20:39
I asked him about setting up in the rain. "I just wait for a break in the rain" Usually make a cup of coffee until the rain breaks lol... He would stop and make like 6 cups of coffee a day on an old esbit stove with a vienna sausage can as his cookpot.
I've so often experienced non stop rain on the east coast backpacking trips and the AT for 3 or more days. So no wonder he was in the habit of getting up at 4am and start walking.;)I laughed when he said it... im like a break in the rain? Are we on the same trail? Those AT rain storms lingered for days on end lol.
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You're not out in the open you're in a bivy. :D
I recently ordered another Superlight. I wanted a 1.0 DCF bottom rather than the .75. Ron, the Chief Happiness Officer, said not doable. :eek: He suggested a polycro ground sheet so...
I use a current Lg with a NEoAirXLite Shorty or Womans length inside teh Superlight and I'm 6'4" 205Lbs. I don't bring my gear inside though. I do wear apparel but not Michelin Man belaying type poofies.
Be glad you have the DCF bottom if you use a polycro ground cloth. With the silny bottom I slide all over with my tossing and turning. Putting the pad inside less overall sliding around. Trying to sleep with the pad outside the silny bottom bivy using poly I've almost slid off ledges unless it's really flat ground.
fastfoxengineering
11-29-2018, 21:02
You're not out in the open you're in a bivy. :D
I recently ordered another Superlight. I wanted a 1.0 DCF bottom rather than the .75. Ron, the Chief Happiness Officer, said not doable. :eek: He suggested a polycro ground sheet so...
I use a current Lg with a NEoAirXLite Shorty or Womans length inside teh Superlight and I'm 6'4" 205Lbs. I don't bring my gear inside though. I do wear apparel but not Michelin Man belaying type poofies.
Be glad you have the DCF bottom if you use a polycro ground cloth. With the silny bottom I slide all over with my tossing and turning. Putting the pad inside less overall sliding around. Trying to sleep with the pad outside the silny bottom bivy using poly I've almost slid off ledges unless it's really flat ground.Noted on the slippage. I have the DCF bottom. Also have a xlite womens if i decide to go inflatable. But recently ive been sleeping on hard surfaces due to a back injury and i think i might be better on the hard ground than on an inflatable. Been sleeping on the green big ages short pad at home right now. Oware had some nice ccf i was considering. The 2.5" thickness is what im trying to avoid. Ill put my pack under my legs to elevate them.
I got sucked into this black hole.
https://backpackergeek.wordpress.com/2017/05/22/closed-cell-foam-pads-part-2/
Whats your food storage recommendation for the PCT? I have a zpacks food bag with an AT thru hike on it still in great shape. No doubt it would last another thru. It was between that or trying an opsak. Ive seen those things get destroyed real fast though. But i dont know how others treat their gear.
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Opsaks and Skurka's food protection article.
Mega fauna protection is not a grand issue on the PCT other than Yosemite and N Cascades. Even the meeses are much less an issue than the AT.
PM sent.
CCF's do very well on the PCT. I'm used to inflatable shorty and woman Neo's as part a virtual frame in the ruck packs I choose and mainly side sleep so...I'd bring a 1/4 tube of Seam Grip or Aqua Seal though as insurance if an inflatable is that level of multi use at least up to KM. Joshua trees got me twice. Glad to have that 1/4 oz tube on those water hauls with a frameless pack.
Have you researched an UL umbrella used with a quality DWRed breathable wind shirt? It could address your sun issue as well as provide rain and cowboy sleep site protection. It might be a lighter wt more usable less complex combination and lead to less sun specific clothing. It also leaves you cooler and is utmost in ventability even more so than a poncho. GG and MB have 7-8 oz ones. It can also be used in conjunction with a smaller coverage lighter wt more minimalist tarp or for added protection if setting up with a tarp. You might be able to use it extensively through Socal.
fastfoxengineering
11-30-2018, 01:58
Have you researched an UL umbrella used with a quality DWRed breathable wind shirt? It could address your sun issue as well as provide rain and cowboy sleep site protection. It might be a lighter wt more usable less complex combination and lead to less sun specific clothing. It also leaves you cooler and is utmost in ventability even more so than a poncho. GG and MB have 7-8 oz ones. It can also be used in conjunction with a smaller coverage lighter wt more minimalist tarp or for added protection if setting up with a tarp. You might be able to use it extensively through Socal.I bought a brand new chrome dome a few years back, got it on sale. Still in the case in storage at the moment.
Its been in the back of my mind. Tis the full size. I know they make a smaller one now as well.
My problem is I will roast. Im as white as it gets and really susceptible to sun burns. I even got some pretty good neck burns in the long green tunnel. I dont want to take chances. But... my current sun pro system is pretty adaptable. All be it. Alot of separate pieces. Im comfortable with my system at the moment. Thats something im erring on the side of caution. Will adapt on trail if need be and will set aside a little cash for different clothes if need be. I wore a long sleeve button up on the AT because my arms would burn. Backs of my legs got a little red at times too. I want to mitigate the use of sunblock. Ill carry a small tube of some good stuff. But im gonna need sun pro for the majority of the hike. Id rather use a clothing system rather than gallons of sunblock or carry an umbrella the whole time.
If anything, id pack the umbrella as a luxury item and not refine my kit around it.
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gwschenk
11-30-2018, 12:39
Freezing rain in SoCal with a late Apr start shouldn't be an all consuming prioritizing concern.
I'm too conservative, I suppose, but on the PCT you are traveling in high mountains in the spring. People hit the Lagunas with nothing more than windshirts and get away with it, but I've seen freezing rain up there, with ice coating everything in spring. While there is definitely not a pile of corpses at the base of Forester Pass, entering the high Sierra in May and early June when equipped for summer weather makes me nervous.
fastfoxengineering
11-30-2018, 13:09
I'm too conservative, I suppose, but on the PCT you are traveling in high mountains in the spring. People hit the Lagunas with nothing more than windshirts and get away with it, but I've seen freezing rain up there, with ice coating everything in spring. While there is definitely not a pile of corpses at the base of Forester Pass, entering the high Sierra in May and early June when equipped for summer weather makes me nervous.Ill either have a poncho or rain jacket and possibly an umbrella. Due to my lack of experience on the west coast and PCT. I'd rather pack an extra 2-3 ounces of my fears to make up for my lack of experience out there.
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Ill either have a poncho or rain jacket
I'd suggest the rain jacket and a pack cover if you're hiking alone. I had a poncho on the pct. Started raining. That's when I realized I couldn't get the thing on over my pack without a buddy to pull it over the pack.
I'm too conservative, I suppose, but on the PCT you are traveling in high mountains in the spring. People hit the Lagunas with nothing more than windshirts and get away with it, but I've seen freezing rain up there, with ice coating everything in spring. While there is definitely not a pile of corpses at the base of Forester Pass, entering the high Sierra in May and early June when equipped for summer weather makes me nervous.
Individual apparel pieces in the context of backpacking rarely to never are used individually. They are part of a larger system/larger systems, approaches, and awarenesses.
The OP stated: a late April start, moderate paced, not anticipating flipping, and is not depending on or considering just depending on a wind shirt. To be clear, just a wind shirt approach was not suggested.:)
gwschenk
12-01-2018, 20:33
The OP stated: a late April start, moderate paced, not anticipating flipping, and is not depending on or considering just depending on a wind shirt. To be clear, just a wind shirt approach was not suggested.:)
Oh, I wasn't bashing what you wrote at all, just a general comment. Cheers!
No problem. I thought you were making a general comment. I was adding/reminding us of some detail to offer context of why what was stated. Cheers! :)