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FlyPaper
12-07-2018, 22:57
Looks like they've added 1.1 miles for 2019.

http://www.atdist.com/atdist?k1=AA&k2=RN&h=b8fc69dd

Total mileage is now 2192.0

tdoczi
12-08-2018, 08:47
Looks like they've added 1.1 miles for 2019.

http://www.atdist.com/atdist?k1=AA&k2=RN&h=b8fc69dd

Total mileage is now 2192.0
i read this the other day and was curious about the wording... wouldnt it be more accurate to state "1.1 miles were added during 2018"?

its not like all the relos for the year open on january 1st. i know of one relo for sure that opened this past fall, and it wouldnt be surprising at all if more open in the middle of 2019. to the degree that the trail changes ts is a constant rolling change. this is the first time i can recall that change being reported in such a way as to suggest theres one time a year that the length of the trail changes.

MuddyWaters
12-08-2018, 08:56
Relo's are constantly ongoing
But becoming fewer it seems

Always fun to stumble onto a new one your guide dont have.
Most are not even noticeable other than " that 2 mi seemed too take too long,"

FlyPaper
12-08-2018, 09:13
Just poor wording, although surprising that even with that if anyone misunderstood.

Also, I've wondered at times if in some cases the mileage updates stem from corrected measurements in absence of any re-route. There have been a few places where I've been highly suspicious of the official mileage claims.



i read this the other day and was curious about the wording... wouldnt it be more accurate to state "1.1 miles were added during 2018"?

its not like all the relos for the year open on january 1st. i know of one relo for sure that opened this past fall, and it wouldnt be surprising at all if more open in the middle of 2019. to the degree that the trail changes ts is a constant rolling change. this is the first time i can recall that change being reported in such a way as to suggest theres one time a year that the length of the trail changes.

tdoczi
12-08-2018, 12:59
Relo's are constantly ongoing
But becoming fewer it seems

Always fun to stumble onto a new one your guide dont have.
Most are not even noticeable other than " that 2 mi seemed too take too long,"
my nobo descent into pearisburg using an outdated map was really not that fun. it wasnt different enough from the map to be obvious, so it was just confusing. and the trail was a muddy mess.

GaryM
12-08-2018, 15:10
Yep, and all of it uphill....

LazyLightning
12-09-2018, 07:30
does anyone have a list of the actual mile changes?

the main pages says minor changes in GA, NC, central VA, CT and MA. I know they are minor but I'd still be interested to read where, I think someone posted this info last year.

tdoczi
12-09-2018, 09:38
does anyone have a list of the actual mile changes?

the main pages says minor changes in GA, NC, central VA, CT and MA. I know they are minor but I'd still be interested to read where, I think someone posted this info last year.
the section i alluded to earlier is actually none of those. the last of the bear mountain (NY) relo opened this past fall.

maybe it didnt cause a big enough mileage change to be worth noting in this context though.

but then again, if those 5 add up to 1.1 miles thats less than 1/4 mile on average per change. so on their own each of those is almost not worth noting, at least not in the sense of the distance being different.

along the lines of what someone else brought up, 1.1 miles is probably less than what we might assume the cumulative error in measuring the full length of the trail to be.

LazyLightning
12-09-2018, 11:37
it could also be something like 1.3 miles longer here, 1 mile shorter here, 2.7 longer, 2.1 shorter... ect. and then the end result between the 5 changes being only 1.1 difference, while it could possibly be a greater change per area. It can't be to much any way you look at it.

rmitchell
12-09-2018, 11:40
Thanks for the link to the trail log. After starting to pursue section hiking in 1998 I have been using the 1999 A.T. Data Book to log my hikes with notes in the margins. The total miles then was 2160. So far I have walked from the base of Amicalola Falls to the Potomac River.

The 1999 Data Book indicates it's 1000 miles, my 2013 AWOL's guide totals 1018 and the newest total is 1025 miles.

My hope is to do a LASH (or two) beginning in a couple of years to complete the trail. In any event, if I make it to Katahdin I think it still counts as a 2000 miler.

tdoczi
12-09-2018, 16:09
it could also be something like 1.3 miles longer here, 1 mile shorter here, 2.7 longer, 2.1 shorter... ect. and then the end result between the 5 changes being only 1.1 difference, while it could possibly be a greater change per area. It can't be to much any way you look at it.
relos do tend to be longer, not shorter, but thats an interesting point. i could see that the relo on bear mountain, at least the most recently opened section, might be a hair shorter.

importman77
12-11-2018, 13:18
Looks like I've been doing some "sleep hiking". It says that I've completed 2192 of 2192 miles. I wish that was true. Now I've got to go back and put in each of my hikes to get it back right.

greatexpectations
12-11-2018, 13:29
does anyone have a list of the actual mile changes?

the main pages says minor changes in GA, NC, central VA, CT and MA. I know they are minor but I'd still be interested to read where, I think someone posted this info last year.

i would be curious about this information too, if anyone has access to it.

steve_zavocki
12-11-2018, 13:48
I am curious too. I remember from last year, that at year end, Guthooks will update to the new numbers. After that, I update the numbers I keep in a spreadsheet of all my section hikes. Last year it cause my completion percentage to change up ever so slightly without passing a single blaze.

Deadeye
12-11-2018, 15:13
Relo's are constantly ongoing
But becoming fewer it seems

Always fun to stumble onto a new one your guide dont have.
Most are not even noticeable other than " that 2 mi seemed too take too long,"

I hiked the LT and Vermont portion of the AT in the 60's & early 70's. it's interesting to look at the old guidebooks and see some major relocations over that span of years. Most of the VT relo's have been to move the trail onto public land. If you know where to look, there are still some shelters or tent sites out in the woods where the trail used to go.

LittleRock
12-12-2018, 14:03
my nobo descent into pearisburg using an outdated map was really not that fun. it wasnt different enough from the map to be obvious, so it was just confusing. and the trail was a muddy mess.
Yeah, that one really ticked me off too. Not because the trail was longer, but because the relo dropped you off further away from town, and the extra road walk was all uphill on a busy highway. On top of that, I discovered Pearisburg really isn't a hiker-friendly town.

Astro
12-12-2018, 14:11
Yeah, that one really ticked me off too. Not because the trail was longer, but because the relo dropped you off further away from town, and the extra road walk was all uphill on a busy highway. On top of that, I discovered Pearisburg really isn't a hiker-friendly town.

The DQ (DairyQueen) is nice. Spent a few hours there eating (quite a bit) and charging my phone and the owner/manager even came over and talked with me. FWIW that was back in 2015.

FlyPaper
12-20-2018, 23:03
does anyone have a list of the actual mile changes?

the main pages says minor changes in GA, NC, central VA, CT and MA. I know they are minor but I'd still be interested to read where, I think someone posted this info last year.

In Georgia:
+0.4 miles from Woody Gap to Big Cedar Mtn (Trail mile 20.5)
-0.3 miles from Big Cedar Mtn to Dan Gap (Trail mile 21.9)
+0.1 miles from Burnett Field Mtn to Jarrard Gap (Trail mile 25.7)

In North Carolina:
+0.2 miles from Brown Fork Gap to Brown Fork Gap Shelter (Trail mile 152.9)

In NC/TN
+0.1 miles from a stream to TN91 (Trail Mile 448.2)

In Virginia
+0.2 miles from Highcock Knob to Marble Spring (Centrail VA Mile 140.4)

In Mass/Conn (1457.2)
+0.4 miles from Bear Mtn to Massachusetts - Connecticut Line (Trail Mile 1507.7)
-0.4 miles from Mass/Conn Line to Sages Ravine Campsite (Trail Mile 1507.8)
+0.3 miles from Sage Ravine to Laurel Ridge Campsite (Trail Mile 1508.4)
+0.1 miles from Laurel Ridge Campsite to Mt Race (Trail Mile 1509.6)
+0.2 miles from Shaker Campsite to Jerusalem Rd (Trail Mile 1540)
-0.2 miles from Cheshire Cobbles to Church St (Trail Mile 1578.3)

LazyLightning
12-21-2018, 12:07
thanks so much for that

Seatbelt
12-21-2018, 13:04
In Georgia:
+0.4 miles from Woody Gap to Big Cedar Mtn (Trail mile 20.5)
-0.3 miles from Big Cedar Mtn to Dan Gap (Trail mile 21.9)
+0.1 miles from Burnett Field Mtn to Jarrard Gap (Trail mile 25.7)

In North Carolina:
+0.2 miles from Brown Fork Gap to Brown Fork Gap Shelter (Trail mile 152.9)

In NC/TN
+0.1 miles from a stream to TN91 (Trail Mile 448.2)

In Virginia
+0.2 miles from Highcock Knob to Marble Spring (Centrail VA Mile 140.4)

In Mass/Conn (1457.2)
+0.4 miles from Bear Mtn to Massachusetts - Connecticut Line (Trail Mile 1507.7)
-0.4 miles from Mass/Conn Line to Sages Ravine Campsite (Trail Mile 1507.8)
+0.3 miles from Sage Ravine to Laurel Ridge Campsite (Trail Mile 1508.4)
+0.1 miles from Laurel Ridge Campsite to Mt Race (Trail Mile 1509.6)
+0.2 miles from Shaker Campsite to Jerusalem Rd (Trail Mile 1540)
-0.2 miles from Cheshire Cobbles to Church St (Trail Mile 1578.3)

What is the actual trail mile marker in VA? Pretty sure it is not 140

FlyPaper
12-21-2018, 13:26
What is the actual trail mile marker in VA? Pretty sure it is not 140

Hmm. Perhaps about 777.8.

tdoczi
12-21-2018, 15:52
Yeah, that one really ticked me off too. Not because the trail was longer, but because the relo dropped you off further away from town, and the extra road walk was all uphill on a busy highway. On top of that, I discovered Pearisburg really isn't a hiker-friendly town.
yeah, downhill on the trail, back uphill on the road wasnt so much fun.

when i was there town was so packed with hikers they didnt have much choice but to be friendly. i had no issues though i ended up having to stay in narrows cause everything was booked. that was an... interesting place.

tdoczi
12-21-2018, 15:54
+0.4 miles from Bear Mtn to Massachusetts - Connecticut Line (Trail Mile 1507.7)
-0.4 miles from Mass/Conn Line to Sages Ravine Campsite (Trail Mile 1507.8)


this is rather curious.

FlyPaper
12-21-2018, 17:51
this is rather curious.

I have long speculated that some of the yearly updates are just corrections. A few places I've walked have seemed way further than the official distance. Then a few years later the official distance will change (though no re-route is ever evident). Someone from the area may know for sure whether this was a reroute or a correction.

The measurements come from 10 or so different clubs, are taken in different years, sometimes many years ago, are done by scores of different people, and then are tallied and reported to the ATC by different people. It's unlikely that errors never crept in, and I'd hope they'd make corrections when better information is available even if there are no re-routes.

tdoczi
12-21-2018, 18:54
I have long speculated that some of the yearly updates are just corrections. A few places I've walked have seemed way further than the official distance. Then a few years later the official distance will change (though no re-route is ever evident). Someone from the area may know for sure whether this was a reroute or a correction.

The measurements come from 10 or so different clubs, are taken in different years, sometimes many years ago, are done by scores of different people, and then are tallied and reported to the ATC by different people. It's unlikely that errors never crept in, and I'd hope they'd make corrections when better information is available even if there are no re-routes.
i guess it also depends on if you mean the actual state line, which i dont believe is marked and which the precise location of is often a topic of much (pointless IMO) discussion on here, or the "AT state line" ie the place where all the guidebooks and so forth switch from MA to CT.

if we're talking about the AT state line then the sages ravine campsite is, if memory serves, literally within sight of it.

i wonder if the confusion isnt that some measurements were from the actual state line and some from the unofficial state line and when you put the 2 together an error of .4 miles appeared. thats my best guess at this riddle. if they actually did a reroute that added .4 miles in one spot and subtracted .4 miles from another spot, all within the same mile or so, thats a serious weird re route. especially considering its all just walking on top of a ridge.

BillyGr
12-22-2018, 14:32
I'd suspect it is some of that. I have a photo from 1995 with people straddling what was then marked as the state line and that photo falls in sequence BEFORE you hit the sign that says entering a fragile area for Sages Ravine. When we were doing another hike in that area more recently, there was no sign of that marking, but rather you saw a "Welcome to MA" sign just after you crossed the brook, past the camping area. Definitely seems that there would be 0.4miles (or even a bit more) between those points, so it could very easily be one person using one to measure and someone else using the other.

P.S. - The 2006 data book (so in between the two times I mentioned) shows/lists the line 0.1 mi BEFORE the campsite when heading north from Bear Mountain, which seems closer to the first point but perhaps a bit closer to the campsite than the photo I had.


i guess it also depends on if you mean the actual state line, which i dont believe is marked and which the precise location of is often a topic of much (pointless IMO) discussion on here, or the "AT state line" ie the place where all the guidebooks and so forth switch from MA to CT.

if we're talking about the AT state line then the sages ravine campsite is, if memory serves, literally within sight of it.

i wonder if the confusion isnt that some measurements were from the actual state line and some from the unofficial state line and when you put the 2 together an error of .4 miles appeared. thats my best guess at this riddle. if they actually did a reroute that added .4 miles in one spot and subtracted .4 miles from another spot, all within the same mile or so, thats a serious weird re route. especially considering its all just walking on top of a ridge.

tdoczi
12-22-2018, 14:50
I'd suspect it is some of that. I have a photo from 1995 with people straddling what was then marked as the state line and that photo falls in sequence BEFORE you hit the sign that says entering a fragile area for Sages Ravine. When we were doing another hike in that area more recently, there was no sign of that marking, but rather you saw a "Welcome to MA" sign just after you crossed the brook, past the camping area. Definitely seems that there would be 0.4miles (or even a bit more) between those points, so it could very easily be one person using one to measure and someone else using the other.

P.S. - The 2006 data book (so in between the two times I mentioned) shows/lists the line 0.1 mi BEFORE the campsite when heading north from Bear Mountain, which seems closer to the first point but perhaps a bit closer to the campsite than the photo I had.

not that I've made an exhaustive study or that I've seen the 2006 data book, but all the guidebooks i have come across and looked at for information on that part of the trail list the unofficial state line.

or perhaps more precisely they call it the end of the MA section/start of the CT section or vice versa. they do tend to point out that isn't actually the state line.

i also think, when dealing with things that are very close together, ".1 miles" means anything less than 1/10 of a mile but not in the same place. ie two locations of note that are 300 feet apart would be listed as being .1 miles apart. in that sense the "state line" and the campsite are .1 miles apart, but they aren't 528 feet apart.