View Full Version : Gear Shakedown: March 3rd 2019 NOBO Start
cmarshall099
12-11-2018, 22:29
Hello all,
Ahhh yes another shakedown post..... For those of you trying to help or for those of you who want to critique here is my current ligtherpack link. https://lighterpack.com/r/bv86pb I'm open to all comments.
The items that are stared are items I don't have yet. This is just a rough outline of gear I already own and currently plan on bringing or gear I plan on bringing but don't own. I am open to swapping out or dropping items if it helps me save on weight. I'm really worried about my starting weight as I feel it is on the heavier side. I know this weight will go down once the weather warms up and I can send half of my clothing home but I still need a ton more gear and I'm already pushing 25 lbs.
My next big purchase will be my pack. I'm looking at the ULA Ohm 2.0 as I have read it is very comfortable. The recommended max weight on their website is 30 lbs. With what I have now, I think I'll be over 30lbs once I start but will definitely shed that down once I figure out what to send home. Do you guys think it's ok to be over on the recommended weight by just a bit or should I keep looking for a different pack?
So basically I'm just looking for any advice! I've hiked quite a bit in the Adirondack high peaks but those were all day trips with a day pack on. I'm pretty new to backpacking so I'm a bit lost. I have done a few test nights walking around in my backyard and camping. So anyways... just looking for any advice. How does my gear look so far? What areas should I focus on right away? Do you see anything that I should drop immediately? Am I way over my head with my start date just under four months? Thanks!!!
fastfoxengineering
12-11-2018, 22:49
I dont think you need two sets of baselayers.
March 2nd start probably will be really fricken cold consistently for a while.
I would hike in hiking pants, a t shirt, a light fleece, and have a windshirt to take the chill out.
If it started precipitating I would want rain jacket, rain pants, and rain mitts.
I'd say ditch the hiking baselayer. Wear pants and switch to shorts when the weather gets warmer. But thats just me.
You probably dont need your sleeping bag liner but only you can put a value of warmth in bed.
I find sleep socks are kinda pointless. If im going to carry another pair of socks, i want another pair of hiking socks. I have found that "sleep" socks dont really give my feet any more warmth than my hiking socks. They are cozier though. Nowadays I carry two sets of wool sock liners and hike in those. In wet/colder conditions i carry a third pair that remains my "sleep" socks. But if im heading into town and my other two socks are gross, ill hike in the third pair. If anything, a thin, comfortable, wool liner sock will wick moisture and dry faster after you put your cold waterlogged feet in them. Thicker sleep socks just absorb the moisture and make your feet cold imo. I like the REI wool liners or Injinji nuwool liners. I also hike in solely these so its a win win.
The R1 will come in handy in the beginning.
Your hat is kinda heavy. A simple 1 oz fleece or 1.5 oz wool beanie is plenty. Especially if you have other garments with hoods.
Don't forget a nice freezer ziplock to SLEEP with your filter. Gonna be hearing that one a lot.
Those little brs stoves arent as great as everyone makes them out to be. They really light for sure, but their performace kinda diminishes their weight reduction. Snow peak lite max is the cats meow for a high quality UL stove.
You could probably shave a few lbs off your kit w/o spending much money. Just a change in mindset.
Just some pointers, have fun.
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bigcranky
12-11-2018, 22:50
I had an Ohm (original, not 2.0) and it was great up to 22 pounds. With the better hip belt it ought to go to 25. I would not personally put 30 pounds in one. Would get a Circuit instead -- yeah, it's heavier but it'll carry 30-35 lbs much better.
List looks fine. You'll probably find you have too much clothing (everyone does.) But even with additional stuff your base will be less than 20 which is fine. I'd still want a Circuit, the Ohm really needs a 10-12 lb base.
fastfoxengineering
12-11-2018, 23:11
I'll keep going...
You can trade your Marmot Precip for a Frogg Toggs jacket. Seriously. The precip WILL be a little warmer but the Frogg Toggs does the trick and shaves 6oz off your bw. Honestly, after using a marmot precip, a marmot mica, an or helium ii, and a LHG silnylon jacket, my beat up frogg toggs still does exactly what i need it to do. Treat it with a little TLC and itll last. If it gets torn up just get another one halfway thru for $15.
Here's what you can do to get rid of some weight for free on the gear your not swapping out. If it has any extraneous stuff, cut it off. Did you remove all the extra stuff on your ula pack that your never going to use? If not, just do it. Strip it down and never look back.
I hiked the whole AT, as well as many others, without camp shoes. I also had far fewer foot problems than alot of people I saw who were carrying camp shoes. I did however get a wee bit jealous every so often. The AT is a wet trail and some camp shoes are nice. It greatly depends on the kind of hiker you are. Lots of time in camp and in town, you probably want some camp shoes.
Pocketknife could be lighter. Ive been using a 0.6oz gerber ul lst or spyderco ladybug for years. Never needed anything more. Back home i carry a 3.5oz kabar folder for comparison.
Rip awol in half, get rest later. Save 4oz.
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cmarshall099
12-11-2018, 23:24
Thanks for the response! I really appreciate your help. I will definitely add rain pants. Here are some of my thoughts.
My plan was to hike in a baselayer, shorts, and rainpants for my bottom half and my baselayer, t shirt, R1, and rain jacket for my top half. Obviously mixing and matching layers as I need them. My legs and lower body usually don't get to cold its more of my upper body which i why I'm thinking about going with just shorts and not pants. But now I'm considering otherwise... Do you think a windshirt is necessary or would a rain jacket be suffice?
I like having a bag liner for extra warmth with my quilt. I plan on using just that on hot nights too. But that will be the first thing to go if I don't use it to much.
Your probably right about the sleeping socks. I think I'll ditch them and possible add another pair of darn toughs. I've never tried the sock liners but do you wear them with socks or do you just hike in the liners?
Yes I wear my R1 pretty frequently in Upstate NY. My plan is to use that with my rain jacket and keep moving to stay warm while hiking. I hope this will be enough...
I'll look into a lighter wool beanie. Any recomendations? The one listed is one I've had kicking around the house. Not the most practical but it is FREE!!
I will 100% be sleeping with my filter and carrying it close to my body while hiking on the colder days.
My stove I've tested and used a couple times and it seems to do the job. I plan on doing freezer bag cooking and only for supper so I'll only be boiling water with it. That said if it breaks I'll just pick up something else or if I see a good deal on a snow peak I may try it out.
As for shaving off a few lbs I feel my clothing is what really needs an upgrade. Everything else I feel semi confident it. Maybe a new sleeping pad too as the Kylmt seems pretty heavy and doesnt have to much R value.
I'm fairly certain ULA's specked 30 lbs Max Load includes total kit wt which isn't just base wt but consumables too. And you're at 25 lbs now with more to buy and that doesn't include water, fuel, and food wt. A good fair average daily food wt for NB LD hikers is around 1 3/4 - 2 lbs. As most though 1.5 - 2 months into your NOBO you'll be discarding wt, bulk and be more experienced in reducing unnecessary high food and water wt hauls. In the beginning, be judicious in resupplying/supplementing more often to reduce food bulk and wt and don't haul unnecessary amounts of water.
Add this to your Buff and "rain" jacket hood. It's become my favorite beanie for backpacking over the last three yrs or so. https://www.backcountrygear.com/merino-150-beanie.html NO ITCH.
My guess is you'll need more than running shorts to hike in maybe 1/2 the time in Mar going into about mid April. Here's a fair Mar and sometimes early Apr weather experience: It sleets and cold rains intermixed with ice and some snow accumulation all day long. What will you be wearing on your bottom half. Sun is now going down along with temps with winds picking up making the air temp low 20's high teens with the wind chill taking it into single digits or next to 0*. Things are frozen at lay me down to rest time. What are you wearing to sleep on your bottom half inside the EE quilt?
Luv merino tees but I'd exclude it at the Mar 3 start. I'd have a LS 1/4-1/2 zip 260 to maybe 150 wt merino as my base(NTS) layer working outwards on my torso. I bet you delete the R1 and/or the GW before that LS piece.
ZP's possum down socks or more preferably, for sleeping socks ONLY, no hiking sock including any high merino or wool content thick sock, has matched the warmth of Goosefeet down socks. For me, for winter hikes using a zipper less quilt they are mandatory. I also like a liner or bivy in winter and or with sleeping apparel to reduce drafts and losing warmth if using a quilt and not in a tent or lean to.
I'm fairly certain ULA's specked 30 lbs Max Load includes total kit wt which isn't just base wt but consumables too. And you're at 25 lbs now with more to buy and that doesn't include water, fuel, and food wt. A good fair average daily food wt for NB LD hikers is around 1 3/4 - 2 lbs. As most though 1.5 - 2 months into your NOBO you'll be discarding wt, bulk and be more experienced in reducing unnecessary high food and water wt hauls. In the beginning, be judicious in resupplying/supplementing more often to reduce food bulk and wt and don't haul unnecessary amounts of water.
It's not always about having to make gear changes. A gear change may not be required! i.e.; new larger pack. Often, more often than not, how one approaches their hikes has consequences on optimal use of gear. Here, reduce you consumable wt and bulk to allow for an at the start least bulkier and weightier overall kit. When warm weather stabilizes and you start deleting bulk and wt in gear pieces you'll be ahead of the game because you'll have early experiences reducing consumable bulk and wt. You'll experience a max load wt that decreases nicely.
I had an Ohm (original, not 2.0) and it was great up to 22 pounds. With the better hip belt it ought to go to 25. I would not personally put 30 pounds in one. Would get a Circuit instead -- yeah, it's heavier but it'll carry 30-35 lbs much better.
List looks fine. You'll probably find you have too much clothing (everyone does.) But even with additional stuff your base will be less than 20 which is fine. I'd still want a Circuit, the Ohm really needs a 10-12 lb base.
+1 2018 Thru Hike with Ohm 2.0, Food and Water pushed weight above 30lbs. Hiking out of town after resupply was always more of a challenge. Get the Circuit and go with a smaller belt if possible. I had to switch out a Large for a Medium in Hot Springs. That made a huge difference as well.
Other things to consider:
The Packa instead of Precip and pack cover.
Patagonia Houdini “WindShirt” was my favorite piece of gear, especially in the Whites and Maine.
I always used Camp Shoes at night and for river crossings as well as in town on occasion.
I tried sock liners but didn’t care for them. Dogwood is correct, yes to sleeping socks.
i slept with my Sawyer outside boxers but inside leggings in the cold
Yes to Rain Pants, Buff and Beanie but also get a ball cap to hold in hiking heat.
Dont sweat any of this. You carry what YOU carry and will figure it out on the trail, changing as time and experience forge you along the trail.
MuddyWaters
12-12-2018, 09:18
Most i ever had in my circuit , hiking, was 32 w/6.5L water and 5 day food.
Ok for short time, half day, but i wouldnt say it carried well. Every step, you feel it sag and bounce on shoulders.
I would limit circuit to 28-29 lb based on my experience.
Ohm....probably 25 as said above. My original is ok to 22-23.
You really are not in range for a light weight pack. You WILL be more comfortable with heavier conventional pack for maybe 1 lb more.
Or...get rid of some stuff
I’d freeze with that sleep pad r1.3 with a quilt is to cold .
Crushed Grapes
12-12-2018, 10:51
This is a good start. What temp is your EE quilt rated for?
Also I noticed there are a few items without weights added in yet, keep in mind the small things do add up.
I'm NOBO March 11, hope to see you out there!
cmarshall099
12-12-2018, 18:34
I'm fairly certain ULA's specked 30 lbs Max Load includes total kit wt which isn't just base wt but consumables too. And you're at 25 lbs now with more to buy and that doesn't include water, fuel, and food wt. A good fair average daily food wt for NB LD hikers is around 1 3/4 - 2 lbs. As most though 1.5 - 2 months into your NOBO you'll be discarding wt, bulk and be more experienced in reducing unnecessary high food and water wt hauls. In the beginning, be judicious in resupplying/supplementing more often to reduce food bulk and wt and don't haul unnecessary amounts of water.
In my lighterpack link I included my the weight of my almost full fuel canister and 2 lbs of food for 4 days. So I'm at 25lbs now but still need to account for water wt and all the other little pieces of gear I need. I'm looking into other packs and the circuit looks like a better option for me considering my weight.
cmarshall099
12-12-2018, 18:38
This is a good start. What temp is your EE quilt rated for?
Also I noticed there are a few items without weights added in yet, keep in mind the small things do add up.
I'm NOBO March 11, hope to see you out there!
Quilt is rated for 20 degrees. I did a twenty degree night out in it with just my puffy, baselayers, beanie, quilt and pad. I was fine in the beginning of the night but woke up pretty cold. I'm hoping that adding the bag liner, buff, some gloves and my R1 will fix that but I haven't tested out that system yet.
cmarshall099
12-12-2018, 18:39
I’d freeze with that sleep pad r1.3 with a quilt is to cold .
Yeah I tried it out once and it was pretty cold. I added a bag liner but looking into a pad with a better r value.
Yeah I tried it out once and it was pretty cold. I added a bag liner but looking into a pad with a better r value.
https://sectionhiker.com/therm-a-rest-neoair-xtherm-insulated-sleeping-pad-review/
I trust his picks . I like mine.
The Thermarest Neo Air 12 oz worked great for me in Shelters. I am a Hammocker with an underquilt but still carried the Pad the entire trip after buying at the Gatlinburg Noc. I had it when I needed it! Probably one of the more common pads on the AT although a little expensive. Check it out!
cmarshall099
12-12-2018, 21:19
The Thermarest Neo Air 12 oz worked great for me in Shelters. I am a Hammocker with an underquilt but still carried the Pad the entire trip after buying at the Gatlinburg Noc. I had it when I needed it! Probably one of the more common pads on the AT although a little expensive. Check it out!
After some research I definitely plan on purchasing one of these. They are pricey though so I am looking on for some sales and checking ebay.
In my lighterpack link I included my the weight of my almost full fuel canister and 2 lbs of food for 4 days. So I'm at 25lbs now but still need to account for water wt and all the other little pieces of gear I need. I'm looking into other packs and the circuit looks like a better option for me considering my weight.
I did see that. I don't get it! is that 2 lbs of food per day equalling 8 lbs or 2 lbs for teh entire 4 days.
cmarshall099
12-12-2018, 23:20
I did see that. I don't get it! is that 2 lbs of food per day equalling 8 lbs or 2 lbs for teh entire 4 days.
It's 2 lbs for 4 days. (I have since changed it to 5 days) if you look to the right the quantity for food is 5 so 2lbs x 5 days. I also added an approximate weight of two full smart water bottles. Still not sure if that will be enough water.
fastfoxengineering
12-12-2018, 23:50
It's 2 lbs for 4 days. (I have since changed it to 5 days) if you look to the right the quantity for food is 5 so 2lbs x 5 days. I also added an approximate weight of two full smart water bottles. Still not sure if that will be enough water.On the AT, I rarely carried more than a liter of water. Georgia in the spring, there's water everywhere. I didnt carry any water. PA and NY was a different story.
If you make it a point to drink plentifully at water sources, you really dont need to carry much. Maybe half a liter to keep your pallet wet.
If you find yourself carrying extra water all day... well adjust accordingly. 2lbs of dead weight is alot.
Your gonna have a harder time dialing in water and food if your still dialing in gear. Its a natural progression. After getting my kit down to about 6.5lbs... i then stopped. Reassessed. And said... i could go lower but.. if i dont put much effort into consumables ill just sabotage my low base weight.
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It's 2 lbs for 4 days. (I have since changed it to 5 days) if you look to the right the quantity for food is 5 so 2lbs x 5 days. I also added an approximate weight of two full smart water bottles. Still not sure if that will be enough water.
I'm either very impressed in that you can function off .5 lbs food/day or you're kidding yourself you're going to maintain that....If you think you can maintain that on a LD hike of the AT 's length I'm all ears. Do tell.
As far as pack size you'll evolve, weather will become milder, as said, you'll get into the Thru hike groove. This typically has the consequences of requiring a lower volume hopefully lighter wt backpack. Consider your current OHM 2 option in that light. Sucks having a hauler too large and overly heavy for the load...and the resupplying approach...during summer...when needs change. When you hit this AT NOBO you'll likely be carrying the most complex, heaviest, and bulkiest collection of stuff than at any other time in the hike.
You can cut almost a pound to leave the Crocs at home. Nice to have, but heavy. I find if I just loosen up my laces, my hiking shoes work fine as camp shoes. If shoes get wet (which they will), I have plastic bags to keep the wet shoe away from my dry socks in camp. YMMV.
kevperro
12-13-2018, 21:31
I agree with leaving the Crocs at home and I prefer Frog Toggs for my normal PNW hiking in rain and I own the Marmot Precip too. It breaths better and the outer layer doesn't wet-out eventually when the DWR wears off. Frog Toggs are disposable but I find them perfect for anything but bushwhacking.
But you are close enough. You will find out what items you need and what you don't in the first month.
cmarshall099
12-13-2018, 22:31
You can cut almost a pound to leave the Crocs at home. Nice to have, but heavy. I find if I just loosen up my laces, my hiking shoes work fine as camp shoes. If shoes get wet (which they will), I have plastic bags to keep the wet shoe away from my dry socks in camp. YMMV.
You know I was looking at how heavy they are and thinking I could go lighter. But I'm not sure exactly; I like the idea of having a sandal like shoe where I can let my feet breathe when I'm walking around camp. I also head of people using them for river crossings. Not sure how many of those I encounter but it seems like a good idea so I'm not hiking the rest of the day in soaked shoes. It might be one of those things I send home after awhile but I think I'll start with them unless I find something lighter.
cmarshall099
12-13-2018, 22:33
I agree with leaving the Crocs at home and I prefer Frog Toggs for my normal PNW hiking in rain and I own the Marmot Precip too. It breaths better and the outer layer doesn't wet-out eventually when the DWR wears off. Frog Toggs are disposable but I find them perfect for anything but bushwhacking.
But you are close enough. You will find out what items you need and what you don't in the first month.
I can't decide on Frog Togs or no Togs! The weight difference seems like a huge win but I feel the Precip will keep me warmer especially with my earlier start. Maybe I'll pick up a pair and see how she is. For only twenty bucks it's not a huge loss.
kevperro
12-13-2018, 22:48
I can't decide on Frog Togs or no Togs! The weight difference seems like a huge win but I feel the Precip will keep me warmer especially with my earlier start. Maybe I'll pick up a pair and see how she is. For only twenty bucks it's not a huge loss.
I wouldn't stress....either one will work. And your start weight is low enough. You will trim and adjust as you go. Having a few extras at kick-off isn't going to matter.
cmarshall099
12-13-2018, 22:57
I'm either very impressed in that you can function off .5 lbs food/day or you're kidding yourself you're going to maintain that....If you think you can maintain that on a LD hike of the AT 's length I'm all ears. Do tell.
As far as pack size you'll evolve, weather will become milder, as said, you'll get into the Thru hike groove. This typically has the consequences of requiring a lower volume hopefully lighter wt backpack. Consider your current OHM 2 option in that light. Sucks having a hauler too large and overly heavy for the load...and the resupplying approach...during summer...when needs change. When you hit this AT NOBO you'll likely be carrying the most complex, heaviest, and bulkiest collection of stuff than at any other time in the hike.
Sorry for the confusion. I have 2lbs of food PER DAY. In my link I have 160 ounces for 5 days. If I can, I will try and shoot for a resupply every 4 days to save on weight but I'm planing for some long hauls. The same goes for water. I generally drink quite a bit of water which is why I've listed carrying two liters but if there's alot of sources for the day I'll probably "camel up" and carry very little.
cmarshall099
12-13-2018, 23:02
On the AT, I rarely carried more than a liter of water. Georgia in the spring, there's water everywhere. I didnt carry any water. PA and NY was a different story.
If you make it a point to drink plentifully at water sources, you really dont need to carry much. Maybe half a liter to keep your pallet wet.
If you find yourself carrying extra water all day... well adjust accordingly. 2lbs of dead weight is alot.
Your gonna have a harder time dialing in water and food if your still dialing in gear. Its a natural progression. After getting my kit down to about 6.5lbs... i then stopped. Reassessed. And said... i could go lower but.. if i dont put much effort into consumables ill just sabotage my low base weight.
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Wow great point!! Your absolutely right. I don't know how much food I'll need to keep me sustained and I'll hopefully figure that out quickly. I generally drink quite a bit of water throughout the day so I can see myself carrying at least a liter pretty much all the time but like you said I'll adjust when i get out there. Thanks for your feed back!!
Sorry for the confusion. I have 2lbs of food PER DAY. In my link I have 160 ounces for 5 days. If I can, I will try and shoot for a resupply every 4 days to save on weight but I'm planing for some long hauls. The same goes for water. I generally drink quite a bit of water which is why I've listed carrying two liters but if there's alot of sources for the day I'll probably "camel up" and carry very little.
By far the heaviest and bulkiest single category of anything in your entire pack will be 2 lbs of food X 4-5 days. It's my illusion if you want to go with a lighter wt and lower volume backpack - the OHM 2 verse something like a Circuit - and lower wt and bulk kit that's THE primary category to focus on NOT CROCS, NOT Frogg Toggs, NOT any other piece of gear.
Fastfox knows it.
On the AT, I rarely carried more than a liter of water. Georgia in the spring, there's water everywhere. I didnt carry any water. PA and NY was a different story.
If you make it a point to drink plentifully at water sources, you really dont need to carry much. Maybe half a liter to keep your pallet wet.
If you find yourself carrying extra water all day... well adjust accordingly. 2lbs of dead weight is alot.
Your gonna have a harder time dialing in water and food if your still dialing in gear. Its a natural progression. After getting my kit down to about 6.5lbs... i then stopped. Reassessed. And said... i could go lower but.. if i dont put much effort into consumables ill just sabotage my low base weight.
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It's common, very common, to get caught up in gear wts and bulk endlessly chatting about it and over anal-yzing it and buying buying buying stuff, when on multiple day hikes the most common bulkiest and weightiest category of all is food. AND, it's easy to decrease the wt and bulk through logistical approaches - like resupplying more often -, repackaging, choosing less bulkier foods, having other nutritional standards that go beyond narrowly focusing on cal/oz ratios, and backpacking in an energy and calorically conservative approach knowing when to expend more calories/energy and when to ratchet back energy/caloric input.
Of all the things one can do on a LD hike to reduce wt and bulk one of the most useful approaches that could be used by the masses is reducing consumable wt and bulk...especially by NB LD hikers. Yet, what happens...gear...as if gear is where it's always at.
You know I was looking at how heavy they are and thinking I could go lighter. But I'm not sure exactly; I like the idea of having a sandal like shoe where I can let my feet breathe when I'm walking around camp. I also head of people using them for river crossings. Not sure how many of those I encounter but it seems like a good idea so I'm not hiking the rest of the day in soaked shoes. It might be one of those things I send home after awhile but I think I'll start with them unless I find something lighter.
So carry the crocs and see how much you really like having them. Easy to give away or send home. Personally, I'd rather cross streams barefoot than carry crocs. This need for stream crossing shoes does not arise as much as you might think.
LazyLightning
12-14-2018, 12:50
This is my favorite camp shoe. It dries super quick, could even wipe it dry. Great for river crossings or if there's a wet section of trail when it's mainly dry, just swap shoes real quick. Perfect for camp and these are so light, a fraction the weight of crocs. You could even hike in them in a jam, just be careful for anything sharp puncturing through. They don't pack well but they are so light they could be attached anywhere on the outside of your pack.
https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/redhead-ragin-water-shoes-for-men?hvarAID=shopping_googleproductextensions&affcode_c=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8JPMoOKf3wIVCtlkCh3NWQEeEAYYASAB EgKJUPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
The pad you have is not really a winter pad. Don't you need a much higher R value, closer to 5, and I think your pad is just over 1. The cold ground is a big problem.
You know I was looking at how heavy they are and thinking I could go lighter. But I'm not sure exactly; I like the idea of having a sandal like shoe where I can let my feet breathe when I'm walking around camp. I also head of people using them for river crossings. Not sure how many of those I encounter but it seems like a good idea so I'm not hiking the rest of the day in soaked shoes. It might be one of those things I send home after awhile but I think I'll start with them unless I find something lighter.Check out the USA Dawgs UL shoe, half the weight of crocs and can be found for 10-20 dollars.
Camp shoes and bag liner are dubious. A liner is good for keeping a bag clean, makes a lot less difference with a quilt. Only 20 degrees? Is it xtra wide? Seems a bit heavy for a 20 EE quilt (by like an ounce). You may want a summer weight quilt at some point, and maybe in apex instead of down. Won't save you any weight, though.
Worn clothing - weights are funny, but should this even be in the mix? And how about poles? If you're including worn clothing, seems like you should include poles. Not that I would include, just making sure you're taking poles.
Pack cover? Packa is a great solution, but you already have a precip which will make a nice shell on the GW for a little extra warmth which you'll likely need, and adding a pack cover shouldn't be much.
Pack - I have a CDT for truly lightweight trips, and I use a Catalyst for everything else. I've carried the latter around with 20 lbs because it was all insulation which could've been compressed to fit in an Ohm, but in all honesty, why compress it. The Catalyst really does carry it all with an ease that I prefer. That said, sounds like a Circuit is a better fit. But not the Ohm.
kevperro
12-14-2018, 19:48
So carry the crocs and see how much you really like having them. Easy to give away or send home. Personally, I'd rather cross streams barefoot than carry crocs. This need for stream crossing shoes does not arise as much as you might think.
Yea... I don't remember ever getting my feet wet via stream crossing.
And when I get my boots wet it doesn't particularly bother me unless it is going to freeze at night. Frozen boots are no fun but during most of the hiking season, I could care less if I have to wade through a stream.
Carrying an extra pair of footwear would be a PIA.
cmarshall099
12-14-2018, 21:31
The pad you have is not really a winter pad. Don't you need a much higher R value, closer to 5, and I think your pad is just over 1. The cold ground is a big problem.
Your right I tested it out about a month ago and was pretty chilled halfway through the night. I'm in the market for a thermarest xlite now. R value is just above 3 I believe. Thoughts?
The x lite would be a much better choice.
The croc (and alternatives) discussion is always a good debate. I would stress that they are called “Camp Shoes” because that is their number one purpose. I didn’t really Ford a river until Maine, and that is when they multipurposes as a water shoe. Just something to keep in mind.
Another thought I have is something that I am changing after my Thru Hike. Like you, I opted for the Pre Cip and Pack cover for Warmth and Rain protection. People are correct that you will “wet out” sooner or later on the trail and I agree. However, I found a cheap (“free Hiker box”) Dry Duck poncho that worked the best for me. However, it was hard to get on and off, without someone pulling it down in back and it just seemed to not ride real even or well. I also never used the Pre Cip for warmth because of my Houdini Windshirt serving multiple purposes. Bottom line, I am getting “The Packa” for future use. Also, my pack cover has been abused and has small rips tears and slices in it. Many hikers complained that pack covers wetted out quicker than the rain jacket itself. I truly believe I would have loved the pack cover, poncho, and rain jacket all in one; which is what The Packa is. You might want to check it out. Especially if you are a Windshirt using Hiker.
In in the end, your gear is your personal choice as to what you desire to use and carry.
If youre bent on taking camp shoes, look at xero clouds as an alternative. Besides being called funny girl names when you wear them, they are legit. Around 5 oz a piece but way more packable than crocs. I wear my crocs all the time at home, but never have the urge to take on trail. If I were taking any camp shoes it would be my xeros.
https://xeroshoes.com/shop/feeltrue-products/amuri-cloud-mens-barefoot-sandal/
Also, dont recommend a liner with a quilt. I switched to a quilt for the warmth snd the comfort. I hate being restricted in a mummy bag and a liner reminds me of a sleeping bag,defeating half of the advantage. I.v tried that klymit pad, thats my guess for your cold experience. It simply gives you no protection from the cold ground.
cmarshall099
12-17-2018, 22:26
If youre bent on taking camp shoes, look at xero clouds as an alternative. Besides being called funny girl names when you wear them, they are legit. Around 5 oz a piece but way more packable than crocs. I wear my crocs all the time at home, but never have the urge to take on trail. If I were taking any camp shoes it would be my xeros.
https://xeroshoes.com/shop/feeltrue-products/amuri-cloud-mens-barefoot-sandal/
Also, dont recommend a liner with a quilt. I switched to a quilt for the warmth snd the comfort. I hate being restricted in a mummy bag and a liner reminds me of a sleeping bag,defeating half of the advantage. I.v tried that klymit pad, thats my guess for your cold experience. It simply gives you no protection from the cold ground.
Thanks for your feedback! Still up in the air about my camp/ town shoes. Those xero clouds actually look pretty sweet but I'm not a huge fan of something between my toes when it comes to sandals. How is the comfort on those guys?
As for my sleep system, I'm definitely gonna start with the bag liner. My EE quilt was a huge investment for me and it's something I want to use even after the AT so I want to take good care of it and keep it as clean as possible while I'm out there. With that said I'm also the type of guy who needs something draped over me at night to fall asleep so even if it's hot as hell I can use that as a blanket. (in hostels and on hot summer nights). Also, I'm definitely getting a better pad before I start. Currently looking for a neoair xlite but can't find one for under 100 bucks. I might have to bite the bullet and just buy one but I have some time to look for a deal before I hit the trail.
To me it looks a bit sparse for an early March start. We started in early April and had snow, freezing temps, and then soaking rain in the Smokies! I would worry a bit less about low weight and a bit more about staying warm. You can ditch excess weight at Hot Springs or Erwin. Going ultralight in basically winter weather? I dunno.....
The clouds take a couple of days to adjust to but not much. Theyre so light that they don't wear much. Stalk ebay and you'll find the pad. I got one about a year ago for 80... long/wide new in box.
cmarshall099
12-20-2018, 22:07
To me it looks a bit sparse for an early March start. We started in early April and had snow, freezing temps, and then soaking rain in the Smokies! I would worry a bit less about low weight and a bit more about staying warm. You can ditch excess weight at Hot Springs or Erwin. Going ultralight in basically winter weather? I dunno.....
What would you say I'm missing for cold weather gear? I'm still looking into a pair of gloves and a nicer hat but I'm curious what you think I should add to avoid a chilly start!
I carry 2 pairs of Darn Tough socks to hike in and a third pair to sleep in.
I use Lands End water shoes as camp shoes, 17 oz. I don't like the idea of open toed sandals in the woods.
If you wear glasses get an extra pair. I realized the need after doing a full frontal and facial fall, my glasses didn't break but did cut my nose a little (plus a forehead cut from a rock). I called my optometrist from the next mountain top and ordered another pair. Carry your prescription also, pdf it in your phone.
Like others I carried about a liter plus 600ml of drink mix and cameled up at sources.
Dogwood is right about food weight. Reduce food weight with high cal/oz foods and short resupply intervals. I'm relooking my plan for the northern half of the AT to reduce the resupply intervals.
You've got fodder here for a half dozen threads.
Thanks for your feedback! Still up in the air about my camp/ town shoes. Those xero clouds actually look pretty sweet but I'm not a huge fan of something between my toes when it comes to sandals. How is the comfort on those guys?
As for my sleep system, I'm definitely gonna start with the bag liner. My EE quilt was a huge investment for me and it's something I want to use even after the AT so I want to take good care of it and keep it as clean as possible while I'm out there. With that said I'm also the type of guy who needs something draped over me at night to fall asleep so even if it's hot as hell I can use that as a blanket. (in hostels and on hot summer nights). Also, I'm definitely getting a better pad before I start. Currently looking for a neoair xlite but can't find one for under 100 bucks. I might have to bite the bullet and just buy one but I have some time to look for a deal before I hit the trail.
For camp shoes, if you like the design of the Crocs, look into Waldies. Same basic design but - my pair weight 9 oz. That’s for the pair.
The ones shown in this link are orange, but there are lots of color choices.
https://www.snewsnet.com/news/waldies-at-the-original-foam-clog
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globetruck
12-21-2018, 22:33
I’ll keep quiet regarding the clothing- it’ll be cold and everyone is different, so maybe that gear will be exactly what you need. If not, mail it home.
My recommended items to delete:
- sleeping bag liner since you’ve got plenty of clothing (9 oz)
- probably don’t need the baselayer bottoms when hiking (6 oz). If it’s that cold wear your rain pants. If it’s even colder, tap into your sleep gear.
- use zing it or lash it instead of paracord and save 1 oz or more.
- probably do t need the space blanket (1oz)
- just tear out a 100-200 mile section of the AWOL guide and mail other sections ahead. (8 oz)
- lighter battery pack? 10oz seems heavy. I have a 10000 mah Anker power core that weighs about 6oz. (Save 4 oz)
- lighter camp shoes? Crocs are heavy and bulky but popular. I have some Aleader water shoes (Amazon) that weigh about 10oz. (Save 4 oz).
Total savings: 25-33 oz but probably zero impact on your experience. And in all honesty, your planned 35lb loadout isn’t all that bad and is probably lighter than many others.
Good luck!
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cmarshall099
12-22-2018, 23:10
I’ll keep quiet regarding the clothing- it’ll be cold and everyone is different, so maybe that gear will be exactly what you need. If not, mail it home.
My recommended items to delete:
- sleeping bag liner since you’ve got plenty of clothing (9 oz)
- probably don’t need the baselayer bottoms when hiking (6 oz). If it’s that cold wear your rain pants. If it’s even colder, tap into your sleep gear.
- use zing it or lash it instead of paracord and save 1 oz or more.
- probably do t need the space blanket (1oz)
- just tear out a 100-200 mile section of the AWOL guide and mail other sections ahead. (8 oz)
- lighter battery pack? 10oz seems heavy. I have a 10000 mah Anker power core that weighs about 6oz. (Save 4 oz)
- lighter camp shoes? Crocs are heavy and bulky but popular. I have some Aleader water shoes (Amazon) that weigh about 10oz. (Save 4 oz).
Total savings: 25-33 oz but probably zero impact on your experience. And in all honesty, your planned 35lb loadout isn’t all that bad and is probably lighter than many others.
Good luck!
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Thanks for your response! Please don't "keep quiet" about my clothing what do you think? Do I have to much? To little?
As for your other suggestions,
1. The sleeping bag liner will be one of the first things to go. I figure it might add a little warmth in the beginning and I could always use it by itself later on in hot hostels or humid nights.
2. I'm most likely dropping a baselayer top since I have my R1 and I'll have my puffy for night time/sleeping. Probably will keep two baselayer bottoms incase one gets wet during the day. (I'm also not bringing pants, just shorts)
3. The space blanket will also probably go. It's one of those that are sealed up nice so once I open it; it probably wont be that compact. Still it would be nice to have if someone around me needs it!
4. I'm kind of a book nerd and don't know if I want to rip the AWOL guide in half. I plan on noting the shelters I stay and other things in the guide but then again I'm also carrying a journal so I will be journaling in that.... **** your right...
5. I have already purchased a 10000 mah Anker battery off amazon just waiting for it to come in the mail. 10oz was just an estimate anyways.
6. The crocs are definitely one of my luxury items. I wear them pretty frequently at home but I am looking to swap them out for something lighter. How is the breath-ability on those water shoes? One thing I like about the crocs is the ventilation and I think that will be crucial after wearing socks and shoes all day everyday. Plus they offer more protection than flip flops or sandals as an alternative camp shoe.
I still need to add some small things and drop some others. Also my tent stakes are cheap ones from walmart so I'm researching some others. Any suggestions?
Thanks again your response was extremely helpful!
globetruck
12-23-2018, 10:14
Happy to help but give yourself some credit since you’re off to a good start.
Clothing: everyone is different and only you know your own comfort levels. I personally prefer more multitasking gear and a sleeping bag liner is a unitasker. Maybe leave it behind and keep the extra layer of fleece and just wear an extra layer of clothing at night when it’s cold.
Clothing II: in the summer, it’s all about having something dry to sleep in. Sweat and rain are the main challenges, so I’ll always keep a pair of running shorts and t shirt just for sleep.
In the winter, sweat isn’t that huge of a deal and it’s all about having the right number of layers to keep you warm, particularly when you stop moving for the night. I suggest you go on as many cold and even rainy day hikes to see what your comfort level is. For me in temps from about 30-55 I hike in long pants, t shirt, a light merino baselayer, and I use my smart wool neck buff for my neck and ears . I keep a fleece top and beanie handy for stops. In my pack I’ll carry my down puffy, an extra thermal top & bottoms for sleep, and I generally use my OR Helium rain pants for colder weather. In all honesty as long as I’m dry, I’ve just slept in my day clothes and never needed the long underwear unless it gets colder than about 30 or so.
If it’s below about 25, I’ll add an extra fleece top and take heavier weight (actually the mid weight versions) leggings. I don’t have much experience below 20 degrees other than a handful of nights.
Camp/water shoes: here’s what I have. I’d also look at the other thread about the “original” lightweight crocs. ALEADER Men's Pull-On Water Shoes Brown 9.5 D(M) US https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01D7IJ5TS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_3q5hCbC787VC2
They’re cheap ($17), fairly light (10 oz I think) and comfortable. They are all plastic so they don’t really breathe but they are very well ventilated. They had a strong plastic chemical smell so I just let them offgas in the sun for a couple of days. They are better than crocs for water crossings (crocs tend to float away), but on the AT you don’t have any real water crossings outside of New England.
I gotta run for now. Biggest advice is for you to get out and find out what system currently works for you in colder and wet weather.
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cmarshall099
12-23-2018, 21:24
Happy to help but give yourself some credit since you’re off to a good start.
Clothing: everyone is different and only you know your own comfort levels. I personally prefer more multitasking gear and a sleeping bag liner is a unitasker. Maybe leave it behind and keep the extra layer of fleece and just wear an extra layer of clothing at night when it’s cold.
Clothing II: in the summer, it’s all about having something dry to sleep in. Sweat and rain are the main challenges, so I’ll always keep a pair of running shorts and t shirt just for sleep.
In the winter, sweat isn’t that huge of a deal and it’s all about having the right number of layers to keep you warm, particularly when you stop moving for the night. I suggest you go on as many cold and even rainy day hikes to see what your comfort level is. For me in temps from about 30-55 I hike in long pants, t shirt, a light merino baselayer, and I use my smart wool neck buff for my neck and ears . I keep a fleece top and beanie handy for stops. In my pack I’ll carry my down puffy, an extra thermal top & bottoms for sleep, and I generally use my OR Helium rain pants for colder weather. In all honesty as long as I’m dry, I’ve just slept in my day clothes and never needed the long underwear unless it gets colder than about 30 or so.
If it’s below about 25, I’ll add an extra fleece top and take heavier weight (actually the mid weight versions) leggings. I don’t have much experience below 20 degrees other than a handful of nights.
Camp/water shoes: here’s what I have. I’d also look at the other thread about the “original” lightweight crocs. ALEADER Men's Pull-On Water Shoes Brown 9.5 D(M) US https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01D7IJ5TS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_3q5hCbC787VC2
They’re cheap ($17), fairly light (10 oz I think) and comfortable. They are all plastic so they don’t really breathe but they are very well ventilated. They had a strong plastic chemical smell so I just let them offgas in the sun for a couple of days. They are better than crocs for water crossings (crocs tend to float away), but on the AT you don’t have any real water crossings outside of New England.
I gotta run for now. Biggest advice is for you to get out and find out what system currently works for you in colder and wet weather.
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I like your thought on "multi tasking gear." This is really making me consider dropping my bag liner and extra baselayers. I did a 5 mile hike in my town yesterday with a 20lb pack. (I live in a valley so I did roughly 1200 feet of elevation change. Nothing compared to what I'll be up against but it was a good start.) The weather was in the low 30s, with a wind chill that felt like mid 20s. (according to weather.com) I was completely fine with the clothing I had and actually had to shed some layers. The thing I'm most worried about is having my clothes get wet and not having any dry base layers to sleep in on a cold night. My plan is once the weather warms up I'll most likely drop all of my baselayers, maybe keep a pair of bottoms, and my fleece, gloves/hat and rain pants. I just wanna make sure I'm prepared for the early start.
bigcranky
12-23-2018, 22:18
Every once in a while I get on a weight-cutting binge and leave my Waldies (the original Croc) at home. I have regretted it every single time. I've tried lighter camp shoe options, I've gone without camp shoes, and I keep coming back to the Waldies. Love 'em.
Let me gently disagree with globetruck -- for me, in the winter sweat is a huge big friggin'deal. It's really easy for me to have on too much clothing to start hiking for the day (hey, it's cold!!) then I start uphill and start sweating and soak my base layers. Then when I stop I get really cold - this can actually be dangerous. Trying to manage sweat is more important in the winter than in the summer, in my experience. In the summer I just get wet. Then I have something dry to change into at night. No big deal.
"I'm also not bringing pants, just shorts." For a Mar 3 start you'll be hiking a great deal in the beginning in thermal bottoms, rain pants(even when not raining), and shorts and may still be cold. If all that does get wet, frozen, dirty, what do you wear to sleep on your bottom half?
"The space blanket will also probably go. It's one of those that are sealed up nice so once I open it; it probably wont be that compact. Still it would be nice to have if someone around me needs it!"
You may want it as a ground sheet that contributes some reflective warmth to your sleep system at a 1.5 oz wt penalty. It might be nice to use if you're not sleeping in the Solong like in an AT shelter. 1.5 oz mylar type space blankets normally refold to a sub sized deck of playing cards. I additionally drape one over my shoulders like a shawl that adds some warmth and wind protection, sometimes under my outer layer. It's something I might use to sit on or take a nap too. I've set a space blanket up much like a tarp lean to wind and weather break as well as offering some reflective heat when set up faced in a southerly direction. At some pt in April eliminating the TR quilt liner keeping the space blanket saves you about 7 ozs and some volume. The volume of the liner you have is greater than the space blanket.
I'm noting two main insulation pieces. One is the HEAVY 14+ oz R1 jacket intended to be worn as a mid or outer layer when hiking. The other is the stopped and in camp and in your sleep MH GW 8 oz puffy. That's 22 + oz of main insulation pieces that you may wear very infrequently together. Could you find a torso layering approach and main insulation pieces that complimented each other better that maybe would see greater usage together?
"My plan is once the weather warms up I'll most likely drop all of my baselayers, maybe keep a pair of bottoms, and my fleece, gloves/hat and rain pants. I just wanna make sure I'm prepared for the early start."
Once that happens the R1 can quickly became a too heavy too warm torso piece.
fastfoxengineering
12-24-2018, 09:24
My AT experience.
Freezing cold in the beginning. Was glad I had a 100w fleece + windshirt + pants to hike in.
Come warm weather. I sent home my fleece. And didnt touch my synthetic puffy for like 3 months. Deffinetly could of bumped it ahead but didn't.
In the summer, I should've kept my fleece and sent the puffy ahead.
My next hike, I want to have a fleece, wind shirt, and down puffy thats a few ounces lighter than what I have now.
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Did you include gloves or mittens? Extra socks on hands in a pinch. I hike with trekking poles and found my hands got cold , esp when in a cold rain. Only thing I missed was a waterproof or water resistant outer glove. Ended up with old food bags over hands which actually worked quite well.
Good luck to you!