View Full Version : sleeping bag woes
ZiggySours
12-15-2018, 11:08
So this past summer was my first section hikes on the AT and really backpacking in general. I hurriedly got all of my gear together over the winter and had researched and developed for about a year. Learned alot those first few trips and am starting to learn what works for me. However, on a unrelated car camping trip late fall with the kids I took my Rei 20 degree synthetic sleeping bag into 35 degree weather. Which i had not encountered while on the At. So with a black lab two kids and me in a tent with a hat on socks on sweat pants and a long sleeve tshirt and a patagonia fleece i woke oh and ****ing hand warmers in my pants pockets, I woke up cold like really effin cold. So heres my deal im like 5'10 250. Im built like a brick **** house so when trying on all these bags at rei by diff companys one thing stayed true the whole experience. My shoulders are broad and mummy sacks do not like me at all. So to combat this an Rei suggested i go for a xlong and xwide bag. Im not that tall i really dont need the x long but try finding a bag that is xwide and not x long. As a result this thing is physically comfortable a ****. However, I feel like the increased material and baggieness is prob not trapping my body heat as well. Is anyone else in this boat? I really just want one sleeping bag that is perfect . Now I know this is going to spark the whole quilt convo but my only dilemma with that is rei does not sell them so say i ****ing hate that **** and now im stuck with a 300 dollar quilt and nothing to sleep in or under. Rei u can return anything so thats what im saying. Im down for cottage company I just dont want to be mailing **** all over the earth back and forth any one with a similar structure have any advise. Thanks Zig
daddytwosticks
12-15-2018, 11:21
Hey Ziggy, what kind of sleeping pad were you using? If the bag has lots of empty space, that will definitely affect it's performance. :)
I'm 5'9, 200, broad shoulders and 46" chest. I have similar issues but not as severe as yours @250lbs ... so it's difficult to say. I agree with you that if you had extra space in your bag, that's a likely culprit, as is the ground pad issue, as daddytwosticks mentioned. I can't speak for REI mummy bags, never having tried one, but there are definitely some mummy bags I can't fit into and some that I can, comfortably. Marmot makes some of the widest bags I've ever tried. Western Mountaineering makes the narrowest bags I've ever tried -- they supposedly have "wide" sizes these days, but I find that a Marmot at the same "shoulder-width" measurement will feel much roomier inside. Feathered Friends also makes bags in different widths, though even their widest is just big enough for me, and so might not fit you depending on how that extra 50lbs is distributed.The various widths offered by these companies are entirely separate from the length differences, so you can get the wider cut in a regular length.
The bags I mentioned are all high-end, and the ones I've tried are all down bags. Just what I have experience with ... hopefully someone else can help with other styles and price ranges.
I've never much liked quilts for warmth ... I like to keep the space inside just enough to avoid being cramped, and most importantly, I find that wearing the hood on my mummy bag is very key to staying toasty.
Have a look at Mont Bell Super Spirals. I have wide shoulders and have no room issues with my MB down hugger.
A 20 F rated Western Mountaineering Alpinlite Long on an Xtherm Large air mattress keeps me comfy to a measured 15 F. I’m only 5’-8” and almost a 100 pounds lighter and I wasn’t wearing anything like the clothes you had on. I didn’t need the long size bag, but the price was right. The Regular Alpinlite will be fine for you.
I’m not sure where you got the idea that WM only makes narrow bags. They actually make more wide bags than skinny bags. Look at the specs online.
I’m also a voice of one in the Wilderness calling BUNK! on the myth about large bags not being warm if they aren’t filled up.
Good luck!
PS: A good down bag will last decades with proper care. It is the most economical solution.
Wayne
I’m not sure where you got the idea that WM only makes narrow bags. They actually make more wide bags than skinny bags. Look at the specs online.
Hi Wayne, I assume this is for me -- my ideas come from actually trying the bags out. My experience is that the width specs are misleading: when lying in both, the same specs for Western Mountaineering bag were a much tighter fit than in the Marmot bag. I didn't say WM only makes narrow bags -- in fact I mentioned the wider widths they offer. My point is that how those bags feel when you're actually lying in them is quite different due to the way they are cut, baffled, and filled -- despite the similar specs. The WM Alpenlite I laid in was a tight fit for me, I doubt the OP would want to squeeze into it.
I think you may be vastly underestimating the difference that 100lbs makes. That's almost like putting a second person in your sleeping bag with you. At 5'10" / 250lbs this guy is thicker than Earl Campbell.
steady123
12-15-2018, 14:34
Get a down 10 degree quilt. Couple with a 4.5 R value inflatable pad. You will be fine.
"So heres my deal im like 5'10 250. Im built like a brick **** house so when trying on all these bags at rei by diff companys one thing stayed true the whole experience. My shoulders are broad and mummy sacks do not like me at all. So to combat this an Rei suggested i go for a xlong and xwide bag. Im not that tall i really dont need the x long but try finding a bag that is xwide and not x long. As a result this thing is physically comfortable a ****. However, I feel like the increased material and baggieness is prob not trapping my body heat as well. Is anyone else in this boat? I really just want one sleeping bag that is perfect ."
The mummy sacks you've looked at don't serve your broad shoulders. You had an REI associate sell you on what they have available in sizes which may not fit. Mummy bags come in shoulder widths as large as I've seen in 65"-67" in reg length which sounds like a better fit for your body shape. You don't need to go to an X long to get the shoulder width you require. NOR do you need to abandon a mummy style because REI's options shown to you don't fit. NOR do you require a quilt to fit your broad shoulders. If you want a quilt for other reasons fine but you don't need a quilt to accommodate very wide shoulders. There are also mummy bags that stretch but again REI doesn't carry bags made by companies like Montbell. REI carries limited in store selections of WM bags and no FF Bags which may also offer a better fit. People are trying to sell you at REI and here on WB.
Hi Wayne, I assume this is for me -- my ideas come from actually trying the bags out. My experience is that the width specs are misleading: when lying in both, the same specs for Western Mountaineering bag were a much tighter fit than in the Marmot bag. I didn't say WM only makes narrow bags -- in fact I mentioned the wider widths they offer. My point is that how those bags feel when you're actually lying in them is quite different due to the way they are cut, baffled, and filled -- despite the similar specs. The WM Alpenlite I laid in was a tight fit for me, I doubt the OP would want to squeeze into it.
I think you may be vastly underestimating the difference that 100lbs makes. That's almost like putting a second person in your sleeping bag with you. At 5'10" / 250lbs this guy is thicker than Earl Campbell.
I read too quickly. Sorry.
Wayne
ZiggySours
12-15-2018, 16:32
so i started out with a cheap klymit v channel pad i think r value is in the 4s or high 3s i tried and exped insulatd one also and that one sucked pretty bad i mean i dont know how anyone likes that i slid off it all night and poped a pin hole in it the second time i used it im going to get like a 200 dollar sea to summit i forget what exact one but its like multi channeled and is red and is light lol also 250 sounds like alot and since ive been married the last few years i put on like 30 dad pounds and yeah i need to loose them lol but i dont look like huge with the extra weight i mean i got a lil belly big shoulders and my thighs are pretty muscular and large but im pretty stout husky maybe lol I am a hvac service tech now but spent 10 years as a installer carying hvac units up and down stairs and in attics and dragging stuff in crawl spaces so as a result i got huge leg muscles and muscular shoulders. THe service world now i dont see to much crazy weight lifting as i did but even in my 20s i always weighted around 200-220 i guess im like a size 38 pant so any name drop of something that might work out would be awesome i dont know if i can drop 600 bucks on a bag and not try it on first though but the western mt bag looked pretty baller thanks in advance Zig
Moosejaw allows bags to be returned IF you don’t remove the tags and IF it looks like new.
I purchased a North Face Hightail 3S bag from Moosejaw. The bag was #2 on my short list. I tried the bag out indoors for a couple days. It was a decent bag. Just not what I was looking for. I returned it for a full refund.
My Alpinlite isn’t the largest bag that WM makes. There are others that have more girth around the shoulders.
If it’s not too late, you could get your money back from REI.
Wayne
MuddyWaters
12-15-2018, 18:00
So this past summer was my first section hikes on the AT and really backpacking in general. I hurriedly got all of my gear together over the winter and had researched and developed for about a year. Learned alot those first few trips and am starting to learn what works for me. However, on a unrelated car camping trip late fall with the kids I took my Rei 20 degree synthetic sleeping bag into 35 degree weather. Which i had not encountered while on the At. So with a black lab two kids and me in a tent with a hat on socks on sweat pants and a long sleeve tshirt and a patagonia fleece i woke oh and ****ing hand warmers in my pants pockets, I woke up cold like really effin cold. So heres my deal im like 5'10 250. Im built like a brick **** house so when trying on all these bags at rei by diff companys one thing stayed true the whole experience. My shoulders are broad and mummy sacks do not like me at all. So to combat this an Rei suggested i go for a xlong and xwide bag. Im not that tall i really dont need the x long but try finding a bag that is xwide and not x long. As a result this thing is physically comfortable a ****. However, I feel like the increased material and baggieness is prob not trapping my body heat as well. Is anyone else in this boat? I really just want one sleeping bag that is perfect . Now I know this is going to spark the whole quilt convo but my only dilemma with that is rei does not sell them so say i ****ing hate that **** and now im stuck with a 300 dollar quilt and nothing to sleep in or under. Rei u can return anything so thats what im saying. Im down for cottage company I just dont want to be mailing **** all over the earth back and forth any one with a similar structure have any advise. Thanks Zig
Inside that tent should have been 40+
With what you were wearing, the cheapest $15 walmart sleeping bag should have worked fine. I done that before without issue. Sweat pants, sweatshirt, cheapo 40-50f rectangular bag, in tent. It was 39 in tent. I was warm on prolite pad.
This is how scouts camp.
Something doesn’t compute.
What were the children wearing and sleeping in? Were they comfortable? Cold? Begging to go home?
There are people who sleep really cold. Folks here at WhiteBlaze who claim that they are freezing in a 0 F bag around freezing, 32 F.
Could that be you?
Wayne
SC_Forester
12-15-2018, 20:45
ERR... try a quilt..... https://www.rei.com/product/896047/therm-a-rest-corus-hd-quilt and try to find a wide sleeping pad.
Trail Lady
12-15-2018, 22:43
deleted due to harassing messages sent and emails
Maineiac64
12-15-2018, 23:54
A 20 F rated Western Mountaineering Alpinlite Long on an Xtherm Large air mattress keeps me comfy to a measured 15 F. I’m only 5’-8” and almost a 100 pounds lighter and I wasn’t wearing anything like the clothes you had on. I didn’t need the long size bag, but the price was right. The Regular Alpinlite will be fine for you.
I’m not sure where you got the idea that WM only makes narrow bags. They actually make more wide bags than skinny bags. Look at the specs online.
I’m also a voice of one in the Wilderness calling BUNK! on the myth about large bags not being warm if they aren’t filled up.
Good luck!
PS: A good down bag will last decades with proper care. It is the most economical solution.
Wayne
A regular wm alpinlite will not work for him, maybe the summerlite but even that might be too tight.
Maineiac64
12-15-2018, 23:57
A regular wm alpinlite will not work for him, maybe the summerlite but even that might be too tight.
I meant terralite.
I don't really understand what you meant about quilts....didn't get the code...guessing it was foul language about rei not selling them.
Regardless, I can't really imagine an argument against a quilt....especially since so many of them are customizable. Once I tried a quilt instead of a bag I can hardly imagine going back to a bag.
Anyway, I've got to imagine there are custom bag makers out there....I remember a youtube commercial a while back about a company selling discounted gear at a lowish price by cutting out the middle man retailers. Can't remember the name, but I wonder if they did custom stuff.
Sorry, i don't have a direct solution for you. good luck in your search
Western Mountaineering does sell bags made for burly men. Me? I'd rather switch to a quilt. Wait a minute...I did!
A regular wm alpinlite will not work for him, maybe the summerlite but even that might be too tight.
The Summerlite, Ultralite and Apache MF are cut on WM’s slim pattern. Too slim even for skinny me at 59” shoulder girth.
The Alpinlite comes in 64” and 65” shoulder girth. WM makes a few bags with another inch or two of girth. All of the dimensions are listed online.
Wayne
Sorry Maineiac64. I missed your correction.
Wayne
TwoSpirits
12-16-2018, 17:44
The Western Mountaineering semi-rectangular bags are worth looking at. They are not so restrictive like the mummy bags, and can be opened up and used as a quilt if you want. The continuous baffles allow you to move the down wherever you want it, so it is a very versatile 3-season bag. I have the 25* Sycamore, which I have had comfortably into the high teens without changing or adding to my usual sleeping clothes (200wt woolies, socks, fleece cap.) I also have the 5* Sequoia, which is like sleeping in HEAVEN! I haven't really had any temps that have challenged that yet.
Hey Ziggy - I'm a thick guy too (6', 275) and I have some special needs. Hiking gear tends to be sized for typical hikers and I'm just not one. Here are my thoughts and recommendations:
- You may be a cold sleeper. I know that I am. I tend to over exert myself on trail and start getting chilled once I stop hiking. I need much better than the recommended insulation to stay warm. It's just a personal thing that you have to figure out for yourself.
- Take the bag back to REI. They have a fantastic 1 year return policy. You're not going to find something off the shelf that fits properly.
- Get a good sleeping pad (or a hammock, see below.) That's what insulates you from the ground and it is more important than the top cover IMHO. Neoair XLite in the XL 25" wide size is great for 3 season down to about freezing. Any colder than that and I would want the X-Therm if was sleeping on the ground.
- Order a custom top quilt. I like both hammockgear and enlightened equipment. The hammockgear economy line is a really good deal (up to a 55" wide quilt) - or you can custom order an X-Wide (which is what I have) and pay a little more for it.
- I have a hard time sleeping on pads of any sort. They just aren't designed to cope with my size. I have much better sleep in a hammock and use an underquilt beneath the hammock to stay warm instead of a sleeping pad. Hammocks are generally more complicated and more fiddly but I sleep great with no back issues and they are totally worth it IMHO. You should check out hammockforums.com if that sounds interesting to you.
YMMV!
HYOH!
Happy Trails!
Along the hammock line of thought...
WhiteBlaze member Just Bill makes a line of bridge hammocks for the Big Guys. If you decide to go that route.
Disclaimer: I get nothing in return for mentioning Bill’s products here.
Wayne
coach lou
12-17-2018, 18:18
Along the hammock line of thought...
WhiteBlaze member Just Bill makes a line of bridge hammocks for the Big Guys. If you decide to go that route.
Disclaimer: I get nothing in return for mentioning Bill’s products here.
Wayne
Bills a pretty good author as well!
Gambit McCrae
12-18-2018, 10:40
After stumbling thru the OP's poor rhetoric ...I will add my 2 cents.
Take a sleeping pad as a value of 1. 1 anything...
Take a sleeping pad as a value of 1. 1 anything...
Each of these always has to at least equal 1.
Temperature always = 2.
So if your bag is a 1.5 but your pad is only a .5 ....Your gunna be cold.
Lesson is, Pad is equally as important as your bag. And I would say most everyone would agree that there is no bag or pad that is perfect for all 4 seasons. At least not for me. I can certainly get away with have a 3 season bag and winter a winter bag. And a 3 season pad and winter pad.
So, I went through a similar situation with a zero bag used on a night in the 20s. As you were, I was wrapped up in many layers as I sat around a fire for a while. Got cold, climbed in the bag, never really warmed up. That was about 20 years ago. Along the way, I've switched to hammocks and quilts and experienced more of the same from time to time. I've also experienced being warm at 20 degrees with my 20 degree quilt(s). First thing is that bags or quilts need your body warmth to insulate efficiently. If you're wearing to many layers, you're insulating your body warmth from your primary insulation (bag or quilt). Not saying sleep naked, just sleep in one layer, or 2 lighter ones.
I don't think the extra room in the bag is much of an issue. If you're pushing the limits, then yeah, it could be. Of course, a bag doesn't insulate you underneath when your body weight is crushing the insulation, so your pad makes a big difference, but I doubt it was much of an issue at 35. Also makes a difference if you're moving around a lot - crushed insulation on bottom needs to reloft when you roll over onto your side or stomach and fill up with air, which primarily is coming from the exterior. Plus, moving around pushes a lot of warm air out of the bag through the head.
I hammock and use quilts. An underquilt stays put, never moves. A top quilt stays on top and can be tucked around the sides to seal and drape directly on your body with no extra room. The two of them form a bag like insulating structure, but with no crushed insulation and no trapped warm air being pushed out as a result, no matter how much I move - which I don't do nearly as much of in a hammock as I did on the ground. Even on the ground (on a pad), a top quilt can give you the room you need while still draping over you for more efficient insulation.
In short, get yourself warm before getting in the bag and squirm around a bit in the bag (creating some body heat) as you take off some layers. That should account for most of the issue. Then consider your pad and switching to quilts if still a problem.
Time Zone
12-18-2018, 17:17
After stumbling thru the OP's poor rhetoric ...I will add my 2 cents.
Take a sleeping pad as a value of 1. 1 anything...
Take a sleeping pad as a value of 1. 1 anything...
Each of these always has to at least equal 1.
Temperature always = 2.
So if your bag is a 1.5 but your pad is only a .5 ....Your gunna be cold.
Lesson is, Pad is equally as important as your bag. And I would say most everyone would agree that there is no bag or pad that is perfect for all 4 seasons. At least not for me. I can certainly get away with have a 3 season bag and winter a winter bag. And a 3 season pad and winter pad.
I'm not sure your post is going to have the clarifying effect you expected.
I meant terralite.
The Terralite does look ideal, very wide through the hips as well as the shoulders. It's interesting that it's rated to 25°, although it claims as much loft as the 20° Alpinlite. It also has 1oz less fill, despite being wider ... but attains the same loft? All very curious, but makes we wonder if (1) there isn't plenty of room in the Terralite for an extra oz of down, and if that would get you that 5°, and (2) if the rating isn't just adjusted for the roominess, and if you actually fill the bag to the same extent a skinny person in a slim mummy does, might it be just as warm.
Western Mountaineering ratings tend to be conservative. I believe the Sycamore is also rated 25 degrees and is very similar to the Alpinlite.
You can special order down overstuffing from Western Mountaineering. Have you looked for a storefront dealer in your area?
Wayne
i suggest you take your discussion to Rockfish Gap Outfitters in Waynesboro. They have the goodies and they know their stuff. Their email is
[email protected] Good luck.
RE:So heres my deal im like 5'10 250. Im built like a brick **** house
I'm 6'0 and 240 ... so I'm pretty much like you probably. Western Mountaineering Ponderosa if you want to be able to get down to 20F, or the WM Bristlecone if your dealing with colder temps yet. Bought these about 10 years ago, and have never thought about any other bag since.