View Full Version : What's your philosophy on whiteblaze purity?
Rift Zone
12-24-2018, 19:47
I'll go ahead and claim the most advanced and successful long distance hikers know there is no right, wrong, or better answer to this one. It is a personal thing that is best served highly customized. So what's your custom? How do you approach that?
I'm almost kind of ashamed to admit I'm a purist. I'm looking at bypassing cool stuff because the mark in the tree had the wrong color? -that's a rough one for me to reconcile. However, hiking the AT to katahdin is the plan, and I tend to be real loyal to plans I adopt... no technicalities, if I'm gonna claim I hiked the entire thing, I will have. So that's how I end up a purist... I will follow the white blazes. Having said that, I have a get out of that free card in some places... I've hiked a third of the AT already. In those places, over ground I've already covered, taking blueblaze parallel routes to cool places is fair game. I will pretty much do so every time the grass is greener.
How about you?
Purist for me, everyone else hyoh. I'll take a blue blaze to see something cool, then retrace my steps to where I left the AT
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Don't let others force you to follow their meaningless rules.
Those that traveled the Oregon Trail in the 1800's took thousands of different routes to get there. As long as they reached Oregon, nobody could say that they didn't travel the trail.
Is walking past every single blaze really important to you, or is it the whole journey? Come on. Is it about them or about you? It's about YOU and that's what matters.
Hike however you want unless you're a real s$%mbag. Honor your word. Say what you do and do what you say as clearly, honestly, and to the best of your knowledge as you can. If you make application for a 2000 mile certificate or state you completed the AT meet the condition of having made an honest effort to walk the entire Trail. Honest is defined as free of deceit and untruthfulness. Effort in this context is not just referring to 'making an effort' but a concerted, determined, and vigorous effort.
Rift Zone
12-24-2018, 20:23
Hike however you want unless you're a real s$%mbag. Honor your word. Say what you do and do what you say as clearly, honestly, and to the best of your knowledge as you can. If you make application for a 2000 mile certificate or state you completed the AT meet the condition of having made an honest effort to walk the entire Trail. Honest is defined as free of deceit and untruthfulness. Effort in this context is not just referring to 'making an effort' but a concerted, determined, and vigorous effort.
Does that registration require every whiteblaze? How purist is it?
Does that registration require every whiteblaze? How purist is it?
Pfft, it's on the honor system. It's required that you walk 2000 miles on the AT. I've done about that in Maine and New Hampshire alone.
LazyLightning
12-24-2018, 20:49
I'm not judging or saying this means anything but according to the ATC a 2,000 miler is someone who makes an honest attempt to hike the entire trail, not just 2,000 miles of it. They call it that cause it sounds better then a 2,192 miler...
I followed the trail exactly but I also took every scenic blue blaze I could and retraced my steps back anytime I would have had the option to skip part. That's just what I wanted to do, I was hiking the AT so I actually wanted to see the entire trail. If there was a more scenic route I was still interested to see the route they bring the AT through instead, and a lot of times it made me wonder.
The next long stretch I do on the AT I will certainly mix things up and take every trail I can that connects back, even if not necessarily more scenic. HYOH for sure.
Does that registration require every whiteblaze? How purist is it?
Section hikers and thru-hikers who complete the entire A.T. can report their journeys to us by filling out the 2,000-miler application. Those who submit their applications will be added to our roster of 2,000-milers and will receive a certificate of recognition, an A.T. patch, and an accompanying 2,000-miler “rocker” patch. Each year the names of those who have reported hike completions in the previous 12 months are published in the Spring issue of A.T. Journeys (https://www.appalachiantrail.org/home/community/at-journeys-magazine) magazine. Our comprehensive online 2,000-miler listing (https://www.appalachiantrail.org/home/community/2000-miler-listing) is updated periodically.
The Appalachian Trail Conservancy (ATC) recognizes anyone who reports completion of the entire Trail as a “2,000-miler.” The term is a matter of tradition and convenience, based upon the original estimated length of the Trail. Conservancy policy is to operate on an honor system, assuming that those who apply for 2000-miler status have hiked all of the A.T. between Katahdin and Springer Mountain, either as a thru-hiker or in sections. In the event of an emergency, such as a flood, a forest fire, or an impending storm, blue-blazed trails or officially required roadwalks are viable substitutes for the white-blazed route. Issues of sequence, direction, speed, length of time or whether one carries a pack are not considered. ATC assumes that those who apply have made an honest effort to walk the entire Trail, even if they did not walk past every white blaze. If you meet these standards, please complete and sign the form below.Recognition Policy
We hold high expectations of 2,000-milers that include treating the natural environment, A.T. communities, other hikers, and our agency partners — whose land the A.T. passes through — with kindness, respect and cooperation;
We operate on the honor system;
We give equal recognition to thru-hikers and section hikers;
We recognize hikers regardless of sequence, direction, speed or whether they carry a pack;
In the event of an emergency, such as a flood, a forest fire or an impending storm, blue-blazed trails or officially required road walks are viable substitutes for the white-blazed route.
A fair definition with reasonable conditions of recognition for completing the AT whether applying for the 2000 mile certificate or not. Opinions vary though. This has been debated so many times.
I'm concerned with purity of one's word, one's heart, and mind rather than someone claiming an act with untruthfulness and deceit.
fastfoxengineering
12-24-2018, 21:37
But if you blue blaze during a thru did you really thru?
Seriously... let it go. You said it yourself. Those who talk about this crap are those who have never walked that far.
Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
peakbagger
12-24-2018, 21:40
The purists tend to thin out after a few months on the trail. In the whites the Crawford Path and the Gulfside are foul weather routes in spots that skip the actual summits and ridgeline. I expect more than few folks follow the ridgeline on a nice day
Rift Zone
12-24-2018, 21:56
A fair definition with reasonable conditions of recognition for completing the AT whether applying for the 2000 mile certificate or not. Opinions vary though. This has been debated so many times.
I'm concerned with purity of one's word, one's heart, and mind rather than someone claiming an act with untruthfulness and deceit.hmm. I see. They're pretty much purist about it. Honestly, think my vote would be to relax it to a minimum of 2k on white blazes, leaving a little room for side paths on thru hikes, while section hikes should stay purist. It wouldn't change my personal approach any, I'd still be purist; but that's how I'd vote.
Rift Zone
12-24-2018, 22:05
But if you blue blaze during a thru did you really thru?
Seriously... let it go. You said it yourself. Those who talk about this crap are those who have never walked that far.
Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
Directed at me?
If i start at springer/falls and hike to katadin in a season, yea, that's a thru in my view.
i was just curious about the philosophy, cuz I know it's a thing on the AT. -west coast is usually my base camp. The inexperienced care what others philosophies are, like as in guiding principles or something... I don't care, advanced hikers don't care, no one should care. Apparently the 2000miler patch cares, but that's a patch, who cares what it thinks? -i would never register for it, doesn't matter if I get every single white blaze.
MuddyWaters
12-24-2018, 22:39
Do what you like
Others will do what they like
Theres already plenty of yellow blazin 2000 milers
Sun still comes up each morning.
Odd Man Out
12-24-2018, 22:45
If you take a blue blaze trail into town and a different blue blaze out of town, and in doing so miss a short section of white blazes but cover a few extra miles, I'm not going to say anything. Blue blazes don't alway mean short cut.
Rift Zone
12-24-2018, 22:57
Theres already plenty of yellow blazin 2000 milers
that's just plain dirty. lol meh. more power to them and their achievements.
fastfoxengineering
12-24-2018, 23:28
When I hear the word purism i think of one thing.
Integrity.
Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
fastfoxengineering
12-24-2018, 23:43
Most of us had zero issues claiming that 2000 miler status.
Others struggle, because their dishonest.
I love the honor system. Best damn thing about the hiking community. People who lie mess it up for the rest of us.
Shun them. Shun them hard.
Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
Feral Bill
12-24-2018, 23:46
It is not a contest and there are no rules, excepting leave no trace and such. If you are one of the few people doing serious FKT attempts, you follow the customs of that pursuit. All up to you.
Slo-go'en
12-25-2018, 00:00
There's being a "purist" and then there is being anal about it. Does it really matter if you went into a shelter site one way and came back out another? Took the foul weather blue blaze even if the weather was nice? Just don't yellow blaze a significant section of trail.
Follow your own path. If it leads from one white blaze to the next then so be it. If it takes you on a path less travelled then so be it. I hike for myself, I answer only for myself. Integrity applies to how one deals with others as well as oneself.
heading southbound in MA approaching rt 20 outside of lee the trail intersects with a maze of snowmobile and other trails. i missed a turn somewhere and ended up on one of the other trails. it emptied out onto the rd maybe a few hundred feet away from the AT crossing, I walked back over to the AT's road crossing and continued on south.
so i missed a few hundred feet of trail because i walked that same stretch (which is all just non-descript gently downhill walking through the forest) on an adjacent trail.
there are some people who will say "you didnt complete the trail!" if i dont go back and hike that few hundred totally inconsequential feet.
i have nothing polite to say to those people.
It ain't pure til one licks all the blazes....
just sayin'
Yeah, unless you tasted a white blaze that tasted like an orange, a white blaze that tasted like a pineapple, a white blaze that tasted like a strawberry, a white blaze that tasted like snazberries,... you haven't taken the complete tour of the AT factory.
Maybe, what's needed is a compostela Camino de Appalachian? :D Ahh, wait, ah wait minute, you're missing a stamp.
Merry Christmas everyone.
The purists tend to thin out after a few months on the trail. In the whites the Crawford Path and the Gulfside are foul weather routes in spots that skip the actual summits and ridgeline. I expect more than few folks follow the ridgeline on a nice day
Very cool to bag some of the peaks that the historic Crawford Path (Section of AT) skirts around (check them off your 4000 footer list!) but since you are above treeline anyway, are the views any better if you go up and over them?
Not really.
I expect there are exceptions — I am foggy on the foul weather routes and that is a whole other kettle of fish.
I am thinking that the AT used to go around Mt Height (Which was on a very short blue blaze at one time) which has a really nice view in the Carters.
D
heading southbound in MA approaching rt 20 outside of lee the trail intersects with a maze of snowmobile and other trails. i missed a turn somewhere and ended up on one of the other trails. it emptied out onto the rd maybe a few hundred feet away from the AT crossing, I walked back over to the AT's road crossing and continued on south.
so i missed a few hundred feet of trail because i walked that same stretch (which is all just non-descript gently downhill walking through the forest) on an adjacent trail.
there are some people who will say "you didnt complete the trail!" if i dont go back and hike that few hundred totally inconsequential feet.
i have nothing polite to say to those people.
Sounds like you missed less of the blazed AT than Earl Shaffer did.
It may be a coincidence, but the ATC modified their written 2000 Miler requirements to include the “Honest Effort” part after I pointed out on line that by Wingfoot’s standard, Earl was not the first thru hiker to become a 2000 miler.
Can you say cognitive dissonance?
In Earl’s case, he shared with the ATC that he missed some of the official Trail in the Whites because he failed to receive his maps on time, and ended up taking a route that was just as long.
You are in good company, Todczi.
illabelle
12-25-2018, 07:29
Merry Christmas to the WhiteBlaze community!!
One thing to add to this discussion: If you are trying to set some sort of record, a Fastest Known Time, or FKT, you'd better pass every blaze and provide proof four different ways. Yellow-blue-pink-aqua-rainbow blazing will get you disqualified! Gotta be a purist to set an FKT. Just sayin'.
Rift Zone
12-25-2018, 08:36
It ain't pure til one licks all the blazes....
just sayin'
That's what I'm talking about! Loyalty!
Lol omg that's awesome.
peakbagger
12-25-2018, 09:51
Very cool to bag some of the peaks that the historic Crawford Path (Section of AT) skirts around (check them off your 4000 footer list!) but since you are above treeline anyway, are the views any better if you go up and over them?
Not really.
I expect there are exceptions — I am foggy on the foul weather routes and that is a whole other kettle of fish.
I am thinking that the AT used to go around Mt Height (Which was on a very short blue blaze at one time) which has a really nice view in the Carters.
It definitely makes a big difference for some of the summits, the Crawford Path goes around Eisenhower just below treeline in the krummholz with zero views. The blue blaze over Eisenhower is really nice as the summit of Eisenhower is probably the most classic dome shape in the whites. The AT turn off to the Crawford Path is very confusing in this area and I expect many south bounders end up going partway up the summit before they realize they are on a blue blaze (I met a southbounder this summer who had missed the turn). Monroe and little Monroe both are bypassed by the Crawford Path. The AT goes through a nice flat "lawn" that has some nice alpine flowers in early summer but the blue blaze has a bit of a knife edge in spots and has great views down to the Lakes of the Clouds that are missed entirely by the AT. On the Gulfside north of Mt Washington, the AT skips Mt Clay which sits along the headwall of the Great Gulf. The AT does traverse a similar section just south of the Mt Clay turnoff but it doesnt have the combination of a top of a ridgeline and the steep dropoff that the Mt Clay blue blaze has. The Gulfside bypass around Jefferson is a mixed blessing. It does have some krummholz but a lot is hiking across lawns and the views down to Jefferson's Knees are superior to the blue blaze. The blueblaze up over the summit does have great views west that rival Mt Washington. Jefferson sits a bit northwest of the main presidential ridgeline and the west side of the summit drops down quickly with no major mountains in view until the Green Mountains in VT. Mt Adams is also bypassed by the Gulfside. Its the second highest mountain in New England and is not trashed like the summit of Mt Washington. It also drops off steeply into Great Gulf with great views in all directions. The blue blaze is short so I expect many folks take the time to visit it.
The problem with the presidential ridge for most thru hikers are that they frequently are in rush as unless they have expensive reservations at the huts, many are trying to do it in two days. If the do the conventional Northbound they are starting at Nauman tentsite and then they are either shooting for the Dungeon at Lake of the Crowds of the unofficial Jewell site or the illegal Sphinx col spot. Some really dedicated folks head to the RMC Perch. All of these destinations means a long day and expect the temptation is stick to the ridgeline and do the blueblazes as they dont have time to do the up and back to fiil in the white blazed bypasses. Add a reserved night at Lake of the Crowds into the mix and then they have more time to play and do the blue blazes but if they leave it to chance and hope for a slot late in the day at LOC they most likely are not going to get one. Southbound has similar if not worse issues, may start at Osgood Tentsite and then have to do the steep climb up to the ridge. If they stop at Valley Way for event the Perch the next day is long one to Nauman.
I have heard some debate over the southerly loop over the Wildcats. Given that AMC was a major supporter of the AT and had a path to Crawford Hut from their Pinkham Notch location over the Wildcats long before the AT they were included but with the exception of the views down the ski slope, the views per mile are a bit lower then the rest of the Whites. The AT could have just had easily taken a turn down the Great Gulf trail and then over to 19 mile brook trail and up to Carter Notch. The same views per mile deficit could be said of the Carters but at expect they were needed to connect up with the Mahoosucs. The other option was just follow the old Pine Link (the lower section s now called the Pine Mountain trail all the way to Gorham from the top of Madison and skip the entire Carter Moriah range ;)
Bubblehead
12-25-2018, 10:02
I've hiked Springer Approach to Southern Massachusetts, and hope to finish the trail starting in May, 2019. So far, I've carried my pack on my back the entire way, and passed every white blaze with the exception of about a quarter of a mile leading downhill into DWG, where I missed a blaze and got off trail, having to bushwhack my way back to the trail in very thick rhododendron bushes...not a fun experience!
That being said, I would like to finish the trail with my pack on my back; but I have yet to experience the Whites and rugged southern Maine. I've read where slack packing occurs more often in this area due to the degree of difficulty and remoteness of the trail. But if I get there, and I need to slack pack to increase my chances of finishing the trail, or taking a blue blaze in difficult weather conditions, I will do so...
FrogLevel
12-25-2018, 10:10
If I ever decided to hike the whole thing in one go I don't think I'd be a purist. If I wanted to take a different trail or raft or whatever along the way I'd do it as long as I walked to Maine. I don't have anything to prove.
petedelisio
12-25-2018, 10:17
Earl Shaeffer even yellow blazed some and missed some of the actual trail on the FirstKnownThruhike. Was Still a thru hike in my book.
Even tho a lot of things are different now. Anybody that misses a section or two like that on accident, can still claim themselves thru hiker and be proud of their accomplishment.
And if upon completion they find out they missed a section, and they want to go back to NC after they find out... They are their own person.
peakbagger
12-25-2018, 10:30
I've hiked Springer Approach to Southern Massachusetts, and hope to finish the trail starting in May, 2019. So far, I've carried my pack on my back the entire way, and passed every white blaze with the exception of about a quarter of a mile leading downhill into DWG, where I missed a blaze and got off trail, having to bushwhack my way back to the trail in very thick rhododendron bushes...not a fun experience!
That being said, I would like to finish the trail with my pack on my back; but I have yet to experience the Whites and rugged southern Maine. I've read where slack packing occurs more often in this area due to the degree of difficulty and remoteness of the trail. But if I get there, and I need to slack pack to increase my chances of finishing the trail, or taking a blue blaze in difficult weather conditions, I will do so...
Many conventional thruhikers seem to make the switch to slackpacks in Gorham NH. The main part of the whites may have beat them up a bit and many hitch down from Pinkham to Gorham for a break. Several of the local hostels offer a slackpack drop off at Pinkham to do the Wildcats, Carters and Moriah in one day and many thruhikers take them up on it as camping logistics in this stretch is a bit more difficult. The same issue occurs after the Mahoosucs. Its the longest stretch of the AT with no road crossings public or private north of the smokies and its lot more rugged for many than expected. The folks in Andover make a very tempting proposition for a slack and stay after the Mahoosucs. I expect there is also a bit of Katahdin fever that kicks in while in Gorham. Gorham is the last town where there is easy access to go home, just hop on a bus and few hours later they are in Boston. For some folks its the logical end for a thru hike when the funds, motivation or time run low as they still got the whites in. Later season hikers can get concerned about Katahdin closing early or figuring out a way to do a flip flop so cutting a few days of hauling a pack probably are tempting.
Rift Zone
12-25-2018, 10:34
If I ever decided to hike the whole thing in one go I don't think I'd be a purist. If I wanted to take a different trail or raft or whatever along the way I'd do it as long as I walked to Maine. I don't have anything to prove.
That's what I'm talking about, all about the journey and what's along the path.
Besides, not to talk down on the AT, I've been out there, I know what an ass whoop'n it is; but still, doing the AT is way cush compared to doing long distance adventures elsewhere thanks to all the angles, magic, and infrastructure, like right there. Please try not to hate me too much for this, but it's a bunny slope badge. Hike your own hike!
[seriously, try not to hate me for that. I assure you, I know what a treasure it is, and I fully respect it. I yearn to carry the same honor! I in no way attempt to diminish the achievement. You can believe anyone who rightfully bears it (and I'll go with my earlier 'vote' of at least 2k miles on whiteblazes, leaving one-whatever miles open for some interpretation as my qualification on that) holds my deepest respects. Wasn't an attack. Just in case, for defense, might not be too off.]
Many conventional thruhikers seem to make the switch to slackpacks in Gorham NH. The main part of the whites may have beat them up a bit and many hitch down from Pinkham to Gorham for a break. Several of the local hostels offer a slackpack drop off at Pinkham to do the Wildcats, Carters and Moriah in one day and many thruhikers take them up on it as camping logistics in this stretch is a bit more difficult. The same issue occurs after the Mahoosucs. Its the longest stretch of the AT with no road crossings public or private north of the smokies and its lot more rugged for many than expected. The folks in Andover make a very tempting proposition for a slack and stay after the Mahoosucs. I expect there is also a bit of Katahdin fever that kicks in while in Gorham. Gorham is the last town where there is easy access to go home, just hop on a bus and few hours later they are in Boston. For some folks its the logical end for a thru hike when the funds, motivation or time run low as they still got the whites in. Later season hikers can get concerned about Katahdin closing early or figuring out a way to do a flip flop so cutting a few days of hauling a pack probably are tempting.
My girlfriend and I discussed this, why so many people quit at the Maine border. We think it's because they get so geared up for the Whites, that when they complete it, they feel they have done the hard part and the rest will be easy...then the Mahoosucs punch them in the face. I'm pretty sure if they went slower through the Whites, saved some energy, they would have a better chance of completing it. Too many people think they can still do 20 or 25 miles a day.
Bubblehead
12-25-2018, 12:04
Thanks for the info, Peakbagger
My girlfriend and I discussed this, why so many people quit at the Maine border. We think it's because they get so geared up for the Whites, that when they complete it, they feel they have done the hard part and the rest will be easy...then the Mahoosucs punch them in the face. I'm pretty sure if they went slower through the Whites, saved some energy, they would have a better chance of completing it. Too many people think they can still do 20 or 25 miles a day.
i see this over and over again - slow down take your time and enjoy the whites and Maine instead of beating yourself up...katahdin fever seems to set in and everybody wants to hurry.
fastfoxengineering
12-25-2018, 14:47
That's what I'm talking about, all about the journey and what's along the path.
Besides, not to talk down on the AT, I've been out there, I know what an ass whoop'n it is; but still, doing the AT is way cush compared to doing long distance adventures elsewhere thanks to all the angles, magic, and infrastructure, like right there. Please try not to hate me too much for this, but it's a bunny slope badge. Hike your own hike!
[seriously, try not to hate me for that. I assure you, I know what a treasure it is, and I fully respect it. I yearn to carry the same honor! I in no way attempt to diminish the achievement. You can believe anyone who rightfully bears it (and I'll go with my earlier 'vote' of at least 2k miles on whiteblazes, leaving one-whatever miles open for some interpretation as my qualification on that) holds my deepest respects. Wasn't an attack. Just in case, for defense, might not be too off.]If the trail was a bunny slope, you'd have alot more actual backpackers finishing it.
On my thru, I noticed there were FAR less long distance backpackers and many more "thru hikers".
Do you indentify as along distance backpacker or a thru hiker?
Either way, you still earn the patch. But theres a substantial difference between the two.
From what I saw. Most quit or convert to slackpackers. And i mean most. The Long Distance Backpacker gets a special nod from the hiking community. They're not better.
But their efforts are recognized.
Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
fastfoxengineering
12-25-2018, 14:53
I've never heard a 2000 miler ever call the AT a bunny slope.
No matter how they hiked it.
Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
gpburdelljr
12-25-2018, 15:02
I think you could make the argument that the blue blazes to AT shelters are a part of the trail. Therefore if you havent walked past every white blaze, AND every blue blaze, you havent walked the entire trail. :)
fastfoxengineering
12-25-2018, 15:13
I think you could make the argument that the blue blazes to AT shelters are a part of the trail. Therefore if you havent walked past every white blaze, AND every blue blaze, you havent walked the entire trail. :)In the end, everyones a section hiker anyways.
Idk anyone who walked from GA-ME and never left the trail.
Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
Therefore if you havent LICKED every white blaze, AND every blue blaze, you havent walked the entire trail. :)
there-------I fixed it for ya....
:confused:
lonehiker
12-25-2018, 15:48
In the end, everyones a section hiker anyways.
Idk anyone who walked from GA-ME and never left the trail.
Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
No definition specifies that you can't leave the trail.
Rift Zone
12-25-2018, 19:42
not the trail, the logistics! The AT has the 100 mile wilderness. PCT has more like 2600 miles of it. Off trail is what makes it a bunny slope compared to long distance adventures virtually anywhere else. on trail, it's no different than any other path you might choose. But with all the infrastructure, like right there, it eases the challenge to what the trail alone throws at you, whereas everywhere else the path is only part of the problem. Trail angels, trail magic, crazy amounts of infrastructure, your path going through an outfitter building... lol That is some pampered packer **** right there. So again, I got nothing to say against the AT or the challenge it bears, but the whole scene surrounding survival otherwise is cush as ****. you got red carpets rolled out for you here for things you have to fight for elsewhere, is what i'm saying.
Rift Zone
12-25-2018, 20:22
as for leaving the trail... most appreciate you not ****ting on it, so by all means leave the trial for that. we'll let it slide.
MuddyWaters
12-25-2018, 20:46
No definition specifies that you can't leave the trail.
Because people leave the trail, a thru becomes just sections hiked back to back.
Much of the bickering of what is a real thru hike between some people, is concerned with how much time between sections is "ok"
. Which is totally arbitrary and pointless really
I don't judge or even care what others do, but I've gone from being a "purist" to having a standard of continuous footprints from start to finish for any hike. I've missed cool things on some hikes due to being a purist and I don't do that anymore. If there are worthwhile alternates, I'll take them. But I won't take shortcuts just to cut miles. Hyoh.
Slo-go'en
12-25-2018, 22:18
Because people leave the trail, a thru becomes just sections hiked back to back.
Much of the bickering of what is a real thru hike between some people, is concerned with how much time between sections is "ok"
Which is totally arbitrary and pointless really
Indeed. Seeing your allowed one calendar year to be classified as a "thru hiker", that allows for some significant time off. I could see taking a month or two off at the peak of summer just to rest up and beat the heat of the mid Atlantic.
Traffic Jam
12-25-2018, 23:06
I believe in following the spirit of the trail. You take what the trail gives you and you learn from it...adapt...figure it out. If that means getting lost and having to skip a few miles to find your way again, so be it. Hiking isn’t about putting one foot in front of another on a pre-ordained path, it’s about learning who you are and becoming a better person.
fiddlehead
12-25-2018, 23:34
"There are no rules" (was spoken to me by a famous hiker Kantishna Bush Pilot, on my second thru-hike, back in '96, I've always accepted his quote as gospel)
Earl Shaeffer even yellow blazed some and missed some of the actual trail on the FirstKnownThruhike.
Can you provide a source on that?
The term “yellow blaze” in the context of a they hike typically means hitching or otherwise getting a ride down the Trail, right?
Slo-go'en
12-26-2018, 02:00
Can you provide a source on that?
The term “yellow blaze” in the context of a they hike typically means hitching or otherwise getting a ride down the Trail, right?
Correct, resulting in a significant distance being skipped over. Earl has to be given some slack as the AT effectively didn't exist in some areas.
MuddyWaters
12-26-2018, 07:10
Been a while since i read walking with spring
My recollection, is earl got lost a bit
Some areas of trail had fallen into neglect
Who gets rides from people back to trail to exact place they got lost?
Its highly likely earl missed a bit here and there due to this.
But probably not as much as Emma Gatewood. Who got lost ....a lot.
The modern discussions over thru hike criteria, are simply people wanting to claim their hike is "better" than someone elses, because they did "X". People do this......to feel better about themselves, compared to others. Thats it.
When I set out on my NOBO thru hike I had developed some personal guidelines that were to govern my hike. First, I had decided that I wanted to spend more time on the trail than in town. So I defied common practice and carried more food and resupplied less often than most folks attempting a thru hike. Second, I wanted to hike in a continuous northern direction following the white blazes. Third, I wanted to carry my pack and not slack pack. On my first thru hike attempt I slack packed. I followed a blue blaze trail when I was suffering from dysentery. I flipped and flopped. On my second thru hike attempt I wanted to hike the Appalachian Trail and experience the entire trail, taking the good with the bad. When I was in Statton, ME some hikers were arranging a slack pack and asked if I wanted to come along. I declined and they asked why. I told them I had nothing against slack packing but had hiked almost 2000 miles without slack packing. I told them I thought slack packing was like hitting the easy button. This was a personal choice and how I wanted to hike the trail. Some may call me a purist but I didn't obsess over walking past every white blaze. In fact I know I missed some like the time I couldn't find the trail in TN, got out my map and headed in the direction of the trail which I eventually intersected
I believe that there is a "right way" to hike the trail and that is the way YOU want to hike it. I hold nothing against others who rainbow blaze the trail or slack pack. The important thing is that they are out hiking and enjoying what the trail offers. How boring the world would be if we were all the same.
QuietStorm
12-26-2018, 09:01
I didn't realize there was such a thing when I started section hiking the trail in 2016. It seemed natural to hike every part of the trail i could. I do exit from shelters the same way i came, and I don't take bad weather routes (and there were a few times when I should have). I don't judge others. If your thru hike includes aqua blazing then go for it, but be honest about it. I've noticed that many thru hikers skip 20 miles here and there, and most don't go back to finish the gaps. Personally that would drive me crazy but then again I've only hiked 1,750 miles of the trail, and not 2,190 (or 2,192).
lonehiker
12-26-2018, 09:05
Because people leave the trail, a thru becomes just sections hiked back to back.
Much of the bickering of what is a real thru hike between some people, is concerned with how much time between sections is "ok"
. Which is totally arbitrary and pointless really
Quote Originally Posted by fastfoxengineering View Post
In the end, everyones a section hiker anyways.
Idk anyone who walked from GA-ME and never left the trail.
Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
No definition specifies that you can't leave the trail.
I was referencing leaving the trail for "normal" resupply. Anyway a couple of additional thoughts on the subject.
1. There are rules if applying for the completion certificate through the ATC. If you didn't hike per these requirements you shouldn't apply for it. You can attempt to rationalize your hike anyway your want but if you don't meet the ATC "rules" you shouldn't apply and receive the certificate period. Now, if the little piece of paper is irrelevant to you then do what feels right for you.
2. Search this subject from 10-15 years ago. The tone was vastly different then as opposed to now (the posters were much more colorful then as well). It has always been my observation that as more people participate in an activity the traditions are diluted or abandoned. I suppose all things change; some for the bad, some for the good.
3. Had a third thought but seem to have forgotten what it was.
Gambit McCrae
12-26-2018, 09:11
I'm a purist. Every white blaze along the way. I will take some side trails if time allows but I will be returning to the same blaze I left from.
I have a couple different reasons for this. For one, when I am finished and say I have walked the entire thing, I don't want the little voice on my shoulder reminding me of that 5 miles in SNP to get to a wayside, or the bump from Garenflo gap down into hot springs because it was 100* out. I want to be able to emphasize EVERy foot of the trail and be able to mean it.
My second reason is because I setout in the beginning of my obsession with the trail to thru hike it. And when the real world caught up to me overnight and I never even set out in an attempt to thru hike it, I told myself that in return I would section hike every mile of it, and in a way that resembled a thru hiker. I would put in the 20 mile days, and I would see every blaze. I pride myself in having seen a lot more blazes than many thru hikers I have met that seem to think its okay to call them self thru hikers when they stick a thumb out whenever its convenient. HYOH as a disclaimer.
fastfoxengineering
12-26-2018, 09:38
I didn't hike every foot of the trail, but I did hike every mile.
The former is impossible, the latter is realistic.
Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
Gambit McCrae
12-26-2018, 09:46
I didn't hike every foot of the trail, but I did hike every mile.
The former is impossible, the latter is realistic.
Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
Please explain how so?
petedelisio
12-26-2018, 14:40
I didn't hike every foot of the trail, but I did hike every mile.
The former is impossible, the latter is realistic.
Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
Good thing I had the patience to let the rattlesnake get off the trail when it did, instead of going around it through the bushes.
I'm blissfully impure. If you get from Georgia to Maine or vice-versa under your own power, that's good enough for me. White blazes, blue blazes, even some aqua blazes if you used your own muscles. You certainly won't find me caring whether or not someone leaves a shelter the same way he/she entered. Want to walk the VA Creeper trail instead of the AT (which is just a few feet away in the woods)? Go for it. Ford the Kennebec instead of using the white blazed route? I won't think less of your trip. Even if you take every possible blue-blazed "shortcut" (and not all are shorter or easier), you're still going to hike 2,000+ miles to get from one end to the other. Yellow blazing is a different story - that's not under your own power, but if the trail is a road walk, nobody is going to gain anything by treading asphalt for 10 miles, so go for it.
3. Had a third thought but seem to have forgotten what it was.
Me too. Every day.
Elaikases
12-26-2018, 17:17
Pfft, it's on the honor system. It's required that you walk 2000 miles on the AT. I've done about that in Maine and New Hampshire alone.
:)
It really struck me that while the trail is 2171 or so miles (changing every year) the badge is for 2000.
but if the trail is a road walk, nobody is going to gain anything by treading asphalt for 10 miles, so go for it.
as a section hiker i generally do not do any long road walks that happen to occur at the beginning or end of my hikes. if they occur in the middle of course its kind of hard to avoid.
for example in dalton mass i ended a sobo hike at the parking lot at north end of town and started the next hike by having the shuttle driver drop me off where the woods started again on the south end of town.
dalton is a lovely place but im not sure what i stand to gain by spending 20-30 minutes walking down a mostly (if memory serves) residential street in small town MA.
i kick myself for not realizing the hell that the duncannon roadwalk is before i was too far along in my planning to effectively plan around it.
have i really not hiked the entire AT if i havent risked my life by trying to walk in the 2 foot gap between traffic and the wall of an underpass in the dark? i dont see it that way.
Elaikases
12-26-2018, 17:19
as for leaving the trail... most appreciate you not ****ting on it, so by all means leave the trial for that. we'll let it slide.
Ok.
I'm still amazed at the number of times I have encountered human poop right on the trail, once completely covered in toilet paper.
I'd really wish people always left the trail to do that.
:)
It really struck me that while the trail is 2171 or so miles (changing every year) the badge is for 2000.
I guess you didn't read the ATC's Certificate recognition for application info.
The Appalachian Trail Conservancy (ATC) recognizes anyone who reports completion of the entire Trail as a “2,000-miler.” The term is a matter of tradition and convenience, based upon the original estimated length of the Trail. Conservancy policy is to operate on an honor system, assuming that those who apply for 2000-miler status have hiked all of the A.T. between Katahdin and Springer Mountain, either as a thru-hiker or in sections.Instead of everyone with their own definitions, interpretations, and needless endless confrontation and debating of what it means to complete the AT the ATC's definition is a darn good standard definition. It ends much of the drama.
KnightErrant
12-26-2018, 22:14
I guess I'm a purist? The only bits of trail I didn't walk on my thru-hike this year were a couple hundred yards that were underwater from flooding at Watauga Lake, and then where the trail crosses that busy road in Daleville. Otherwise, I walked past every white blaze. But being "purists" became almost a game, and we would laughingly acknowledge that we were being pretentious when we back-tracked to exit a shelter on the same spur trail or doubled back if we got dropped off at a different end of the trail head parking lot or whatever. I didn't think people weren't real thru-hikers if they skipped that silly stuff or took blue blazes sometimes, as long as they walked the whole way. Even yellow blazing doesn't bother me, since it doesn't affect my hike at all, but I personally would feel disingenuous calling my own hike a "thru-hike" in that case.
I did see an instagram post featured on the Trek or WWH or something, where the girl talked about her PCT thru-hike and how "it wasn't a perfect thru-hike, but it was MY thru-hike" and then declared that she had hiked 1800 miles. I mean, that's something like 70% of that trail. A totally admirable LASH, but why call that a thru? That seemed a little rude to the folks who walked 800 miles more than her. But that begs the question of what percentage gets to qualify. Strictly by definition, it's 100%. According to the AT people who say "It's a 2000 miler certificate, so you can miss up to 190 miles," about 90% is sufficient. To that girl, it was 70%.
To me, it's kind of like a group project back in school. Yellow-blazing thru-hikers are the group members who don't do as much work, but get the same grade. Mildly annoying, but honestly? I only care about my grade.
StubbleJumper
12-26-2018, 22:19
There are some really insecure people in this thread. Why would you allow somebody else to define for you what your goal is and then also decide for you what are your measures of success? Just do whatever the hell you like, and if somebody else doesn't concur, then they can do whatever the hell they like.
People really should get off the AT and hike some other trails where this type of fundamentalism doesn't prevail.
evyck da fleet
12-26-2018, 22:48
Discussing someone’s beliefs on thru hiking is akin to talking politics or religion. Most people think their way is the best and that’s it.
I tried my best to be a purist knowing I would eventually miss some blazes. I walked straight out of Duncannon instead of one block over realizing this half way out of town and not turning around. But the real reason for me being anal and going back to walk out the same blue blaze I came into the shelter on was to make sure I was paying attention to my surroundings and not autopiloting my way down the trail.
After the AT I wasn’t concerned with being a purist and focused more on making sure to see what I wanted. In order to get a JMT permit I was required to take the four mile trail to the first campground instead of the first two miles of the JMT.
I'm a purist. Every white blaze along the way. I will take some side trails if time allows but I will be returning to the same blaze I left from.
I have a couple different reasons for this. For one, when I am finished and say I have walked the entire thing, I don't want the little voice on my shoulder reminding me of that 5 miles in SNP to get to a wayside, or the bump from Garenflo gap down into hot springs because it was 100* out. I want to be able to emphasize EVERy foot of the trail and be able to mean it.
My second reason is because I setout in the beginning of my obsession with the trail to thru hike it. And when the real world caught up to me overnight and I never even set out in an attempt to thru hike it, I told myself that in return I would section hike every mile of it, and in a way that resembled a thru hiker. I would put in the 20 mile days, and I would see every blaze. I pride myself in having seen a lot more blazes than many thru hikers I have met that seem to think its okay to call them self thru hikers when they stick a thumb out whenever its convenient. HYOH as a disclaimer.
Nailed it...well done sir.
Kerosene
12-26-2018, 23:09
Purist here, as a long-time section hiker. I would make sure to touch the blaze I started/ended at to connect each section. There were a few times that I took the blue-blaze loop trail to/from a shelter, I suppose. I really don't care what others do, as long as they walk from Springer to Katahdin over some period of time.
Why would you allow somebody else to define for you what your goal is and then also decide for you what are your measures of success? Just do whatever the hell you like, and if somebody else doesn't concur, then they can do whatever the hell they like.
exactly.......
except when it comes to licking the blazes..........
Therefore if you havent LICKED every white blaze, AND every blue blaze, you havent walked the entire trail. :)
there-------I fixed it for ya...
:confused:
Yeah, if you missed the snazzberry blaze you aint gettin no certificate.
Seatbelt
12-27-2018, 08:35
Heck yeah, let's just all define what thru-hike means to our own selves. I have hiked a little over 700 miles of the AT, I'll just announce myself as a thru-hiker. (tic)
My point is that if you don't have a standard (and maybe we don't actually), then anything (or almost anything) goes.
Can't climb all the way to Kahtahdin? No problem, you're a thru-hiker. Skipped 50 miles to come back back later and do them (but never actually get around to it), you're a thru-hiker. Hike 3/4 of the trail this year and come back a year or two later and finish? you, too are a thru-hiker.
At what point do we call it NOT a thru-hike?
We don't accept these loose guidelines for an FKT attempt, just saying.
I have read many (probly TOO many) trail journals and books written by thru-hikers in recent years and it seems to me that there is a lot of jumping around, skipping sections to catch up with friends or family, rafting, canoeing around certain sections, etc. Most of these still refer to themselves as thru-hikers.
I guess if it doesn't bother them, why should I care? Just seems like a large gray area to me.
Has it always been this way? Just curious.
lonehiker
12-27-2018, 09:16
According to the AT people who say "It's a 2000 miler certificate, so you can miss up to 190 miles," about 90% is sufficient.
You misrepresent what the AT people are saying. Read, or reread, post 65.
Bubblehead
12-27-2018, 09:45
I plan on finishing the AT in 2019. I've hiked 1511 miles of it in 2 LASH's. When I finish it, I will be a 2000 miler, not a thru hiker. I did not hike the entire trail in 1 calendar year.
KnightErrant
12-27-2018, 10:26
You misrepresent what the AT people are saying. Read, or reread, post 65.
I'm well aware of the ATC definition that Dogwood quoted, and that is the definition I was referring to when I said "Strictly by definition, it's 100%." That's the definition I and many other hikers on the trail this year adhered to. But if you read, or reread (;)), the very line of my post that you quoted, you will see that I was saying that according to some AT people (those who say "It's a 2000 mile certificate, so 2000 is good enough."), anything above 90% should qualify. Not how I personally see it, but it's a sentiment expressed both on this thread and one that I heard from some hikers on the trail this year. Not how all AT people see it, but also not an uncommon opinion.
The point of my post was that by definition, a thru-hike should be 100% of the trail, but not all hikers agree on whether it's necessary to follow that definition to the letter. In the end, however, the only thing that really matters to me is that I hiked the whole trail.
Tl;dr hyoh. (Which I suppose is most threads on this forum boiled down to the post character minimum, xP)
Just seems to me like this “purist” thing is both a mental jackoff for those who haven’t actually hiked much of it, and a real good way to diss the hike many have already made simply because you don’t like how others have hiked their own hike. I mean, dissing those whom I would say hiked “reasonably pure” because you don’t like how others hiked who more clearly accepted that there are no rules.
Like the guy that mentioned coming in to town to stay a night and then being shuttled to the trailhead the next day. Is that “skipping” miles in town between trailheads? I completely understand if you would choose not to do that and instead pick up from where you left off, but seems to me that putting a label of “purist” on your preference by default brands the other as less than pure, which bothers the heck out of me on behalf of those who’ve HYOH’d for the 2100+ miles. Most of them only “skipping” a few feet here, a mile or so there, not to make it easier but because at the time it seemed prudent. I forgot who said this, but I feel it’s true... it’s impossible to hike every foot, but a reasonable choice to hike every mile. Though I don’t see missing a mile or so out of the 2100+ as necessarily flaunting that.
You make your own choices, don’t tread on mine, and don’t label my choices because you want one for your own. Call yourself a purist if you want in your own mind.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
rmitchell
12-27-2018, 10:43
exactly.......
except when it comes to licking the blazes..........
I've painted a few and ain't going to lick them. :p
LittleRock
12-27-2018, 11:20
I'll go ahead and claim the most advanced and successful long distance hikers know there is no right, wrong, or better answer to this one. It is a personal thing that is best served highly customized. So what's your custom? How do you approach that?
I go out to HAVE FUN and not stress about passing every single white blaze.
Just seems to me like this “purist” thing is both a mental jackoff for those who haven’t actually hiked much of it, and a real good way to diss the hike many have already made simply because you don’t like how others have hiked their own hike. I mean, dissing those whom I would say hiked “reasonably pure” because you don’t like how others hiked who more clearly accepted that there are no rules.
i find this to be generally true in life. there are people who go through life concerned with how things are supposed to be done, the right way to do everything. they make this their guiding principle. they put a lot of time and energy and willpower in it, and it is often not what they really want.
so of course when they see someone who isn't going putting them self through the same struggle they are going through they react with anger.
throwing in something even as insignificant as a certificate at the end as some sort of prize just makes it worse. those who do everything "right" don't want the people who just did as they pleased getting the same reward.
the truth is someone who has never even set foot on the east coast of the united states can get one of those certificates, and i'm sure someone has. as such, i really never get why anyone worries about meeting the "requirements" to get one.
double d
12-27-2018, 13:35
A purist is someone who labels themselves that-why not take a hatchet with you, the way Ed Schaffer did when he first hiked the AT? As someone wrote earlier, I agree with them:
"Don't let others force you to follow their meaningless rules.
Is walking past every single blaze really important to you, or is it the whole journey? Come on. Is it about them or about you? It's about YOU and that's what matters."
Just Bill
12-27-2018, 14:37
I'll go ahead and claim the most advanced and successful long distance hikers know there is no right, wrong, or better answer to this one. It is a personal thing that is best served highly customized. So what's your custom? How do you approach that?
I'm almost kind of ashamed to admit I'm a purist. I'm looking at bypassing cool stuff because the mark in the tree had the wrong color? -that's a rough one for me to reconcile. However, hiking the AT to katahdin is the plan, and I tend to be real loyal to plans I adopt... no technicalities, if I'm gonna claim I hiked the entire thing, I will have. So that's how I end up a purist... I will follow the white blazes. Having said that, I have a get out of that free card in some places... I've hiked a third of the AT already. In those places, over ground I've already covered, taking blueblaze parallel routes to cool places is fair game. I will pretty much do so every time the grass is greener.
How about you?
If it is an FKT (a record) then covering every inch is mandatory.
Otherwise you aught to simply do what you said you did.
At the end of the day unless you take along a third party witness... it's just your word and if you can live with lying to yerself why should I care?
If you say you hiked THE Appalachian Trail... then technically you aught to be a purist about it... or at least close enough you're comfortable with your definition as the footpath is fairly technically defined and easy to stay on.
If you say you hiked along the AT... then I'm sure you had a swell time and didn't worry too terribly much about exactly which inch of pathway you covered as you went along. You still went on a 2000+ mile hike and really had just as many, if not even possibly more, positive experiences as a purist.
If you say you had an adventure from Georgia to Maine... sweet. Bumming around, doing some hiking, catching a concert, hitchhiking, bar hopping, hooking up with strangers, and overall having a grand adventure of it... God Bless 'Merica cause that sounds like a wonderful trip. Using the trail as a jumping off point for a wild season of fun sounds pretty amazing... especially as many find the 'colorful characters' who make up the trail community so interesting.
I understand a purist getting butthurt over a poser or flat out yellowblazer claiming to have Thru-Hiked THE Appalacian Trail. But more often than not they simply don't understand the meaning of the claim and are not worth yer time.
What is going to happen? After months of hanging out on the trail and walking enough to know better you're going to suddenly break through their thick skull and implant your definition into their heart and mind? They will collapse in shame, shed tears and fall to their knees begging for forgiveness? Nah... they'll just think you're a real a-hole and get on with their lives.
Be proud of what you say you did regardless of what you did.
If you're ashamed of it... guess you're more of purist than you think.
Despite claims to the contrary; You cannot lie on the trail.
Slo-go'en
12-27-2018, 16:53
It's quite possible to thru hike the AT and yet not hike it's entireity
Just Bill
12-27-2018, 17:04
It's quite possible to thru hike the AT and yet not hike it's entireity
"Used to be so wilfully obtuse, or is the word abstruse?
Semantics like a noose, get out your dictionaries"
'Are you Serious', Andrew Bird
It's quite possible to thru hike the AT and yet not hike it's entireity
Not sure I get that one. Unless... maybe that's the point! The whole discussion is pointless because it's impossible to be one with the universe. Or as Tony says, "do your best, and forget the rest."
peakbagger
12-27-2018, 18:50
A few years ago there was a hurricane in New England that hit the AT in VT and NH very hard during thru hiker season. The AT was officially closed from the Mass VT state line to the northern border of the whites. There was no official blue blaze route. The ATC declared that that year this section could be skipped and still be considered a thru hike. It was that way for several weeks.
Lone Wolf
12-27-2018, 19:15
nobody really cares about your little walk in the woods
Elaikases
12-27-2018, 19:23
A few years ago there was a hurricane in New England that hit the AT in VT and NH very hard during thru hiker season. The AT was officially closed from the Mass VT state line to the northern border of the whites. There was no official blue blaze route. The ATC declared that that year this section could be skipped and still be considered a thru hike. It was that way for several weeks.
Thanks for the point.
nobody really cares about your little walk in the woods
unless all the blazes are licked---then everyone cares....
...If you say you had an adventure from Georgia to Maine... sweet. Bumming around, doing some hiking, catching a concert, hitchhiking, bar hopping, hooking up with strangers, and overall having a grand adventure of it... God Bless 'Merica cause that sounds like a wonderful trip. Using the trail as a jumping off point for a wild season of fun sounds pretty amazing... especially as many find the 'colorful characters' who make up the trail community so interesting...
This describes the way many including myself thru hike/LD hike. One can experience all this, and more, and still meet the ATC's definition of hiking the entirety of the AT. I did. And, it wasn't a problem. I can live with myself.
LD hiking/thru hiking is not just about hiking.
Next time the $379 truck payment is due to the finance company I'm going to send in $300. When they add in a late fee or send a letter stating the entire payment hasn't been remitted as I signed my name agreeing to in a contract to receive the financing benefit I'm going to say "stop being a purist, why are you so legalistic?, I didn't know we were following the letter of the contract." :rolleyes:
...the truth is someone who has never even set foot on the east coast of the united states can get one of those certificates, and i'm sure someone has. as such, i really never get why anyone worries about meeting the "requirements" to get one.
Some sc%$mbags beat up Seniors for their SS checks too. That doesn't justify me doing it.
In these threads I find it alarming how quick and to what extent some will sacrifice their honesty and integrity...for what...perceived benefits of social clout, a fictitiously obtained certificate of accomplishment.
In these threads I find it alarming how quick and to what extent some will sacrifice their honesty and integrity...for what...perceived benefits of social clout, a fictitiously obtained certificate of accomplishment.
Not anyone on this overly long thread has said anything about sacrificing their own honesty and integrity, rather only that you have no right to say exactly what that is.
And your payment analogy is far and away irrelevant and meaningless to what’s been discussed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MuddyWaters
12-27-2018, 22:52
nobody really cares about your little walk in the woods
So true.
Means nothing to hikers...dime a dozen
Non hikers only feign interest....if that.
These days im usually gone somewhere for a month every year. My non-hiking wife never asks questions or asks to see pics. Means nothing to her. I dont ask to see pics from her scrapbooking weekends either.
Ohh, LOL, this thread isn't done yet.
Some sc%$mbags beat up Seniors for their SS checks too. That doesn't justify me doing it.
i'm not encouraging the false acquisition of the certificate. i'm encouraging the proper assessment of the certificate's value (basically nothing).
Next time the $379 truck payment is due to the finance company I'm going to send in $300. When they add in a late fee or send a letter stating the entire payment hasn't been remitted as I signed my name agreeing to in a contract to receive the financing benefit I'm going to say "stop being a purist, why are you so legalistic?, I didn't know we were following the letter of the contract." :rolleyes:
if the ATC (laughably huge if) wants to put in some manner of verification of completion process and starts rejecting applicants who don't meet whatever criteria they create then your analogy works better.
if the terms of your loan are "we'd like you to send us $379 a month, please" and there are no late fees or penalties and at the end of the loan terms you still receive the bill of sale no matter how much you pay a month, how much are you going to send?
I guess I'm a purist? The only bits of trail I didn't walk on my thru-hike this year were a couple hundred yards that were underwater from flooding at Watauga Lake, and then where the trail crosses that busy road in Daleville. Otherwise, I walked past every white blaze. But being "purists" became almost a game, and we would laughingly acknowledge that we were being pretentious when we back-tracked to exit a shelter on the same spur trail or doubled back if we got dropped off at a different end of the trail head parking lot or whatever. I didn't think people weren't real thru-hikers if they skipped that silly stuff or took blue blazes sometimes, as long as they walked the whole way. Even yellow blazing doesn't bother me, since it doesn't affect my hike at all, but I personally would feel disingenuous calling my own hike a "thru-hike" in that case.
I did see an instagram post featured on the Trek or WWH or something, where the girl talked about her PCT thru-hike and how "it wasn't a perfect thru-hike, but it was MY thru-hike" and then declared that she had hiked 1800 miles. I mean, that's something like 70% of that trail. A totally admirable LASH, but why call that a thru? That seemed a little rude to the folks who walked 800 miles more than her. But that begs the question of what percentage gets to qualify. Strictly by definition, it's 100%. According to the AT people who say "It's a 2000 miler certificate, so you can miss up to 190 miles," about 90% is sufficient. To that girl, it was 70%.
To me, it's kind of like a group project back in school. Yellow-blazing thru-hikers are the group members who don't do as much work, but get the same grade. Mildly annoying, but honestly? I only care about my grade.
I sloshed through that flooding at Watauga Lake and then back thru it to the hostel when I realized my failing boot wouldn’t make it to Damascus. With new boots I took the blue blazed high water route.
nobody really cares about your little walk in the woods
unless all the blazes are licked---then everyone cares....
Not anyone on this overly long thread has said anything about sacrificing their own honesty and integrity, rather only that you have no right to say exactly what that is...
I didn't call out any individual. I called out dishonor and deceit.
The ATC has clearly stated applying for a 2000 mile certificate is based on the honor system. OK, then let's be honorable. Let's act with integrity...by demonstrating it with our actions.
If we're accurate in our recollections Scope folks other than myself with an abundance of experience with thru hikers over many years have publicly stated on WB they routinely are intimately privy of AT thru hikers claiming to have completed an AT thru hike having skipped portions of the AT, sometimes large portions, not making an honest effort to entirely hikeall the AT. This is regularly observed when not particularly focused on it. I've witnessed it personally many times. Some want to ignore this. To hush it up. If I made that a regular habit I'd be complacent in that dishonesty. I choose to not aid and abet concealment of and misrepresenting the truth. I desire my conscience to be clear, unconflicted.
How about yourself Scope? Care to reply to the question?
When dishonesty and deceit occur sometimes it's called out. That isn't going away...no matter how much some may want it to.
That's the nature of dishonesty and deceit. It malignantly grows and festers in the attempt to further conceal and misrepresent the truth.
i'm not encouraging the false acquisition of the certificate. i'm encouraging the proper assessment of the certificate's value (basically nothing).
But that's not the case Tdoczi... made obvious by the social value that completing or 'thru hiking" XYZ trail offers. There's often greater value assigned by society as a benefit of completing or accomplishing something - H.S., a college degree, long durations at a job, paying off a vehicle or home, a FKT, a first, etc. This occurs regardless of what we individually believe or how we individually assess or judge value. In short, there's often greater value assigned in gaining a 2000 mile certificate or completing something. That plays into the minds of hikers.
MuddyWaters
12-28-2018, 02:16
A certain percentage of the population will:
Cheat on spouse
Cheat on income taxes
Lie about ....everything
Steal when no ones looking
Its a bit absurd to think none of these people will also make it to the AT.
Theres dishonorable people everywhere. Even in religious organizations.
Feral Bill
12-28-2018, 03:46
The "cheaters" are taking nothing from anyone, except perhaps themselves. Harmless self delusion at the very worst.
But that's not the case Tdoczi... made obvious by the social value that completing or 'thru hiking" XYZ trail offers. There's often greater value assigned by society as a benefit of completing or accomplishing something - H.S., a college degree, long durations at a job, paying off a vehicle or home, a FKT, a first, etc. This occurs regardless of what we individually believe or how we individually assess or judge value. In short, there's often greater value assigned in gaining a 2000 mile certificate or completing something. That plays into the minds of hikers.
a piece of paper that literally anyone can get whether they did the thing it claims they did or not is worthless.
that tons of people falsely assign it worth doesnt change that.
besides, who does something just to gain the admiration of others, or as you put it, the "social value?" unfortunately a lot of people. but to me thats the problem.
Traveler
12-28-2018, 08:54
It really doesn't matter what level of "purity" one establishes for themselves or holds to. What matters is how the self defined "purity" level is managed and the evolution of philosophical concepts when they collide with reality. Does one strictly adhere to self imposed purity rules like "lick every blaze" (love that!)? Or is there an evolution of that philosophy when suffering yet another bout of Norovirus borne on fingers of those who's "purity" level was far less and only had to touch them.
Life provides many object lessons for those who falsely claim achievement to acquire a certificate or gain local notoriety, eventually they are disgraced. While it may not be their undoing to falsely claim the AT 2000 mile certificate, it adds to the straw that eventually breaks the karmic camel's back.
Like personal integrity, I don't think the "purity" issue can be framed in anything close to a one-size-fits-all concept. In my view those issues remain the exclusive province of the individual.
But that's not the case Tdoczi... made obvious by the social value that completing or 'thru hiking" XYZ trail offers. There's often greater value assigned by society as a benefit of completing or accomplishing something - H.S., a college degree, long durations at a job, paying off a vehicle or home, a FKT, a first, etc. This occurs regardless of what we individually believe or how we individually assess or judge value. In short, there's often greater value assigned in gaining a 2000 mile certificate or completing something. That plays into the minds of hikers.
Technically correct, but for practical purposes here in this specific case we’re talking about, incorrect.
To answer your interrogative statement from the previous post, I’ve not exactly been one to be reserved about calling folks out. But I’m also conscious of trying to be specific in my arguments, perhaps too much so sometimes. To me, the subject is broad and the answers here have mostly reflected that. Seems to me that you see the issue as much more defined and, therefore, see anything outside of that definition as fair game for the label of dishonest and deceitful. Whereas I see the subject as necessitating a careful tread, your pounding of the subject is more like a bull in a china shop. Lots of untruths accepted in the full speed ahead mode, but lots of little truths ignored along the righteous path.
In summary, there are some that do care about the specifics that make up what a thru hike is supposed to be, and there are others - as LW succinctly put it - simply don’t care about your stroll in the woods. Most of us are in the middle. I’m sure most of us would say that there is a purist way of doing the thru, and would agree with your definition of it. But it’s just wrong to call everything outside of that definition dishonest and deceitful. No, you didn’t call out anyone individually, rather you pretty much called out everyone who’s ever attempted a thru hike, successful or not. That’s what I take issue with.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The "cheaters" are taking nothing from anyone, except perhaps themselves. Harmless self delusion at the very worst.
Exactly.
And it reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite philosophers:
“If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment.”- Marcus Aurelius
Traillium
12-28-2018, 12:15
Exactly.
And it reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite philosophers:
“If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment.”- Marcus Aurelius
This is worth keeping!
nobody really cares about your little walk in the woods
Others don't care if you did the whole thing or only said you did. You are the only one that knows. If you say you thru-hiked that's fine. Only you will know and the rest don't care.
double d
12-28-2018, 14:42
I totally disagree with Lone Wolf when he writes, "nobody really cares about your little walk in the woods." Certainly, if done correctly, one person can share their experiences with others (photo's, web postings, presentations, etc.) and influence the knowledge, motivation and aspirations to hike the AT and/or other trails, especially in others like myself who live in areas of this country (Northern Illinois) that just do not have long distance trails to hike (yes, I'm well aware of the Ice Age Trail and have hiked it numerous times).
A few years ago, I went to Andrew Skurka's presentation in Michigan and was amazed by his stories related to his hikes and also there was many newer hikers and non-hikers who watched his presentation as well and I was happy that those newer hikers were able to greatly benefit from such an experienced hiker as Andrew.
So....LW, many people do care about long distance hiking!!!
Does anyone hike the trail with the purpose of getting that piece of paper? The mind boggles over the money that one could make on EBay selling fake ones. (Thru hike certificates! Save yourself 6 months of pain for only 99.95!!!).
I am doing it for myself. Something I want to do. I am following the blazes I did follow the blue blaze around Siler bald to the shelter, does that disqualify me?). Then again I am a lash, what do I know about thru hiking?
Feral Bill
12-28-2018, 21:52
I totally disagree with Lone Wolf when he writes, "nobody really cares about your little walk in the woods." Certainly, if done correctly, one person can share their experiences with others (photo's, web postings, presentations, etc.) and influence the knowledge, motivation and aspirations to hike the AT and/or other trails, especially in others like myself who live in areas of this country (Northern Illinois) that just do not have long distance trails to hike (yes, I'm well aware of the Ice Age Trail and have hiked it numerous times).
A few years ago, I went to Andrew Skurka's presentation in Michigan and was amazed by his stories related to his hikes and also there was many newer hikers and non-hikers who watched his presentation as well and I was happy that those newer hikers were able to greatly benefit from such an experienced hiker as Andrew.
So....LW, many people do care about long distance hiking!!! I don't read LW as saying people don't care about long distance hiking in general. He says people don't care about your (any one person's) hike. I doubt he's wrong.
The "cheaters" are taking nothing from anyone, except perhaps themselves. Harmless self delusion at the very worst.
Yes, but...
I think most of us are a bit miffed when someone close to us (spouse, child, friend, trusted coworker) is rude, uncharitable or untruthful.
Even it’s about something beyond trivial, like the score one puts down in a friendly round of golf after putting two in the pond. My reactions is far different if the meaningless “cheating” is done by someone with whom I have a bond vs a complete stranger.
While there remains some automatic bond between former thru AT hikers, as our number proliferates I think that bond has weakened more than most can appreciate.
With that, so too have my feelings with regard to those who are compelled to ignore the ATCs requirements printed above their signature, just to get listed as a 2000-miler and receive a certificate.
Now it’s a big “so what” for me, though I would like the ATC to retain its own sense of honor and discontinue the practice of issuing a 2000 miler certificate.
Some say here in this forum the certificate and completing something like hiking from GA to ME is worthless but yet some of these very same people are the ones enthralled with stories of LD hiking, supporting and adding interest to it, and actively engaged with the activity in trail communities impacted by it. I wonder if the ones voicing the loudest and most complaints have ever experienced a LD hike of 2200 miles, knowing what it can mean to others and how others can be enriched. Some find it an accomplishment, something to be admired, to be proud about, to be shared with others as a shared activity. The certificate and professions can remind us of that. If you see it as worthless then move on to a different topic. Why comment on something you perceive as having no value unless you enjoy being a curmudgeonous naysayer?
As Double D said to assume no one cares about another person's hike is missing it big time. Some of the hottest threads on WB alone involve thru hiking and FKT's. Some folks assume a hike is only about one person, as if we each hike in an alienated bubble. Rarely this is so, especially on the AT and especially on a very long AT hike. A hike, any hike, has the potential to influence and impact many. A hike is NOT an it's only about me me me I I I my my my affair. Too many presume it is or approach it as such! A thru hike is not just about hiking. Some of us may be too much in our own little worlds assuming we're all disconnected to see it.
Some say here in this forum the certificate and completing something like hiking from GA to ME is worthless but yet some of these very same people are the ones enthralled with stories of LD hiking, supporting and adding interest to it, and actively engaged with the activity in trail communities impacted by it. I wonder if the ones voicing the loudest and most complaints have ever experienced a LD hike of 2200 miles, knowing what it can mean to others and how others can be enriched. Some find it an accomplishment, something to be admired, to be proud about, to be shared with others as a shared activity. The certificate and professions can remind us of that. If you see it as worthless then move on to a different topic. Why comment on something you perceive as having no value unless you enjoy being a curmudgeonous naysayer?
As Double D said to assume no one cares about another person's hike is missing it big time. Some of the hottest threads on WB alone involve thru hiking and FKT's. Some folks assume a hike is only about one person, as if we each hike in an alienated bubble. Rarely this is so, especially on the AT and especially on a very long AT hike. A hike, any hike, has the potential to influence and impact many. A hike is NOT an it's only about me me me I I I my my my affair. Too many presume it is or approach it as such! A thru hike is not just about hiking. Some of us may be too much in our own little worlds assuming we're all disconnected to see it.
my own personal spin on the "no one cares" angle is that, in the larger world outside the hiking community, tiny little details of the hike, such as did you actually pass all the blazes, no one cares about.
take my example above about missing some of the trail in MA. if as a thru hiker that happens, is there going to be anyone outside the hiking community who wants to hear about how technically i didnt hike the whole trail cause i missed a few hundred feet? no. that level of detailed analysis is relevant to very few people in the grand scheme of things. effectively no one.
so if someone spends 5 months "thru hiking" but takes 3 blue blazes, skips a few road walks and actually (gasp) completely skips 3 miles of trail somewhere boring and insignificant, does anyone in the world at large really care to hear about it? no. to those people, even after the hiker in question tells them all the little details and is truthful, theyre going to turn around and tell their friends "hey so and so hiked the whole AT." that level of detail just doesnt matter to most people.
now there is some point, lets say if the hiker has yellow blazed 500 miles of the trail, where people at large will care. where if you tell someone you hiked the AT and then your friend who was with you says "yeah except you spent 1/4 of the time being driven around" then yeah, at some point even non hikers are just going to laugh at you and/or feel your being deceptive.
but this thread isnt about whether its ok to outright lie, its about "purity." i read that as "is it ok to literally not pass every single blaze" i think most people in the world would laugh at the idea of that question even needing to be asked. and for good reason. like i said in my first post in this thread, the idea that anyone (and there are some, thankfully not many, even in the hiking community) cares that i took an unintended detour in MA and missed 300 feet or so of trail, or that i didnt walk across dalton, ma, is kind of laughable in the grand scheme of things.
and thats what i think "no one cares" means.
MuddyWaters
12-29-2018, 13:53
Since popularization of autos, and shift from rural farming to urban lifestyle for majority of population, most people dont walk much. In truth, they dont understand that its even possible to travel by foot anymore. Theyve never walked more than 1/2 mile at once in their life. Even if they wanted to, no one has time to travel by foot since there is more expedient alternatives. Walking has been relegated to being a hobby due to this
So, some are floored, or enamored to learn that its still possible, and that people do it . Some take great interest, others dont give a hoot.
But the more you know, the less it means to you imo. I got into distance hiking for same reason. Didnt care squat about hiking a few miles and camping. But hike a 100 with only whats on back......much more interesting. With a few twists, its how people travelled for most of human history. On foot. No better way to see the world.
Slo-go'en
12-29-2018, 14:02
The ATC admits you don't have to walk every inch of the AT, they give you some wiggle room. If over the course of hiking 2200 miles, you accumulate a couple of miles of missed trail, that's acceptable.
Of course, the real debate is how much missed trail is acceptable? When I got into a car and went directly from US60 to Glasgow, VA skipping 22 miles of trail, that would have disqualified me right there. To justify it at the time, I was running out of food and was going to go into Buena Vista, but I meet a day hiker at the parking lot heading back to Glasgow with it's free town shelter, which sounded like a much better plan. What would you have done? (Okay, I had done those 22 miles a couple of times in the past, so didn't feel too guilty skipping them).
Exactly.
And it reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite philosophers:
“If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment.”- Marcus Aurelius
stepped on a nail the other day. it went through the shoe deeply into my foot. it hurt. I guess i shouldn't have been distressed? :bse
nobody really cares about your little walk in the woods
there it is
wayne
MtDoraDave
12-30-2018, 11:24
Shakespeare said it: to thine own self be true.
.
To me, the tens of extra miles I've hiked (going to shelters, water sources, etc) more than make up for the tenths I may have missed along the way.
Unless you are planning to apply to ATC for the patch, certificate, and to have your name published in AT Journeys for actually completing the entire white-blazed trail, it does not matter if you hike from Georgia to Maine another way or even skip huge sections. No one really cares, unless you are dishonest and claim to have done it all but really didn't.
A good analogy would be something like the New York Marathon. Does anyone here think it's OK for someone to start the Marathon, go a mile, hop on a subway, hang out in a bar, then join the real runners a few miles before the finish line claiming to have run the entire route? Their name, runner number, etc. are published and they get their photo taken as if they finished the entire Marathon. Fair? Honorable?
ATC is the entity that provides the patch, certificate, and public recognition. If you have honor, then honor their honor system. It is crystal clear what is expected if you sign that application. The only real "loophole" is if you encounter a trail closure for safety or emergency issues; when you find them, you are actually encouraged to take an alternate route. Usually, that alternate is marked on-trail, detailed online, mentioned on Guthook, etc.
The good news is that you can skip sections (example: aqua blazing the Shenandoah River in lieu of the parallel AT a few miles to the east) and then go back and actually hike the white blazes. I know hikers who did just that the year after they made it to Maine. They waited until they went back and hiked it before applying to to ATC. And I know hikers who just applied to ATC without going back -- ever. Who is honorable. Who is not?
The ATC admits you don't have to walk every inch of the AT, they give you some wiggle room. If over the course of hiking 2200 miles, you accumulate a couple of miles of missed trail, that's acceptable.
Of course, the real debate is how much missed trail is acceptable? When I got into a car and went directly from US60 to Glasgow, VA skipping 22 miles of trail, that would have disqualified me right there. To justify it at the time, I was running out of food and was going to go into Buena Vista, but I meet a day hiker at the parking lot heading back to Glasgow with it's free town shelter, which sounded like a much better plan. What would you have done? (Okay, I had done those 22 miles a couple of times in the past, so didn't feel too guilty skipping them).
Since you had done those miles before, it counts toward your completion of the AT. The ATC recognition is not for thru-hiking, it's for doing the entire AT. You can do it all in one year as a thru-hike, or over 30 years as a section hiker. So long as you do it all, at least once, you're golden in their eyes.
...A good analogy would be something like the New York Marathon...
Seems like a bad analogy to me. A timed event is completely different from an AT thru hike, even it you're doing the hike all at once and not flip-flopping around. Its illuminating, though, that you think its a good analogy. Shows the constraints that you would put on yourself. Are those constraints really deserving of honor, or just things you find to be more honorable than not, or maybe just things to apply arbitrary honor to?
This idea of "purity" of a thru hike is a regrettable endeavor. There's too much that each person goes through individually to accomplish the feat for anyone to be a good judge of what they had to do to get it done. Blatantly, skipping sections for ease, sure, that's annoying. But again, we're not placed here by anyone to judge that.
Its illuminating, though, that you think its a good analogy.
Seems like your beef should be with the ATC and not Skyline.
If an organization asks you to SIGN a document attesting to the fact that you satisfied the clear requirements they spell out directly above your SIGNATURE, reasonable people might expect that all those who SIGN THEIR NAME did in fact meet those requirements.
Understood why you could be mad at the ATC though. Their requirements are mean and not fair to everyone who deserves a patch.
@rickb...
Not mad at anyone, only irritated by the notion that others might use this purity issue to unnecessarily demean the hikes of those who with all true intent might have missed a blaze or two. And the ATC even acknowledges this on the application, that they assume an honest attempt to hike the entire trail even if not every blaze is passed.
I fail to make any sense of your reply at all.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I decided that sitting at loft mtn campground and drinking a six pack was more fun than hiking 1.1 miles around it. Then, I got sick in maine and took a 4 mile road walk into stratton rather than hiking 8 over crocker mtn. Then I took the summit bypass around moxie. Still got my patch and don't feel guilty.
Here is the ATCs most recent rewrite and the one that they had been using.
I think the new version is a move in the right direction, but still needs to be improved — or better still, done away with. More emphasis on effort and less on entire Trail and viable substitute would make it better, I think.
44680 44681
gracebowen
02-21-2019, 22:54
I'll likely miss a few blazes by taking one path in to the shelter and another out. I won't lose any sleep applying for my thru hiker patch if I manage to complete the whole trail. Likewise if I hitch to town and miss a mile or less of trail due to a slightly different drop off point.
If you hike the AT to only get the 2000 mile certificate you are spending money and time foolishly. Just write to ATC tell them you hiked, answer a few questions and they will send you a 2000 mile certificate. No proof is needed.
If you hike the AT to only get the 2000 mile certificate you are spending money and time foolishly. Just write to ATC tell them you hiked, answer a few questions and they will send you a 2000 mile certificate. No proof is needed.
it is an interesting thing to observe that pretty much no one would do this, but argument over what does or should qualify one to receive the certificate is never ending.
Sarcasm the elf
02-22-2019, 12:31
My personal philosophy is complete and unadulturated indifference. Just be honest when stating what you did or didn’t hike and I’m fine with it.
My personal philosophy is complete and unadulturated indifference. Just be honest when stating what you did or didn’t hike and I’m fine with it.
so to come back round to another thread.... on the off chance a hiker who has hiked all the way from GA to CT decides to take the mohawk trail instead of the current AT route, then proceeds to hike the rest of the way to Katahdin, this person should not receive a certificate/should not tell people "I hiked the Appalachian trail"?
kind of silly if you ask me. and as i think i said earlier when this thread started, to people in the world at large (ie not people who obsess over hiking) as well.
Sarcasm the elf
02-22-2019, 13:18
so to come back round to another thread.... on the off chance a hiker who has hiked all the way from GA to CT decides to take the mohawk trail instead of the current AT route, then proceeds to hike the rest of the way to Katahdin, this person should not receive a certificate/should not tell people "I hiked the Appalachian trail"?
kind of silly if you ask me. and as i think i said earlier when this thread started, to people in the world at large (ie not people who obsess over hiking) as well.
That’s another example of where my great indifference comes into play. If someone did that my response would be “cool, you took the more rewarding route.” and leave it at that. It really doesn’t bother me either way.
That’s another example of where my great indifference comes into play. If someone did that my response would be “cool, you took the more rewarding route.” and leave it at that. It really doesn’t bother me either way.
i agree, but some (many) would put forth the notion that said person claiming they hiked the appalachian trail was mot telling the truth
Sarcasm the elf
02-22-2019, 13:23
i agree, but some (many) would put forth the notion that said person claiming they hiked the appalachian trail was mot telling the truth
I think we’re in agreement that those people are silly, and that possibly they don’t have anything more important to worry about. :)
Sarcasm the elf
02-22-2019, 13:35
i agree, but some (many) would put forth the notion that said person claiming they hiked the appalachian trail was mot telling the truth
Speaking of sillyness in that exact same area, you may have heard this story before, but back in 2009/2010 the CT D.O.T. closed the rte 7 bridge over the Housatonic just north of Belter’s Campsite in Cornwall in order to perform major repairs. Because of this the DOT installed a well marked official hiker detour that involved about a three mile road walk before reconnecting with the trail at Falls Village. During the final stages of construction there was a several month period in the summer where the bridge had been reopened but the DOT had not yet removed the detour signs since that project wasn’t totally finished. That season I heard stories from thru hikers who witnessed a handful of whiteblazing purists complaining and agonizing over the decision of whether they had to follow the “official” detour or the actual trail in order to claim that they genuinely hiked every inch of the trail.
:jump
Speaking of sillyness in that exact same area, you may have heard this story before, but back in 2009/2010 the CT D.O.T. closed the rte 7 bridge over the Housatonic just north of Belter’s Campsite in Cornwall in order to perform major repairs. Because of this the DOT installed a well marked official hiker detour that involved about a three mile road walk before reconnecting with the trail at Falls Village. During the final stages of construction there was a several month period in the summer where the bridge had been reopened but the DOT had not yet removed the detour signs since that project wasn’t totally finished. That season I heard stories from thru hikers who witnessed a handful of whiteblazing purists complaining and agonizing over the decision of whether they had to follow the “official” detour or the actual trail in order to claim that they genuinely hiked every inch of the trail.
:jump
not only do i remember it, i hiked it that summer. the detour was in place. I walked over the bridge dodging between traffic and the construction. as it was a weekend i don't beleive there was anyone actually actively working, but the barriers and everything was up and there was no sidewalk to use.
i didnt do this out of a sense of purity in one direction or the other, but because, as a dayhiker, i didnt feel like spending a big chunk of my day road walking to avoid an under construction bridge.
since the "rules" state youre supposed to hike the trail the way it is marked at the time youre there hiking it, i guess i disqualified myself right then.
middle to middle
02-22-2019, 21:26
Yes I agree. the rest is what we wanted to leave behind the trail.