Aagh my brother and future thru hike partner is driving me nuts

[gracebowen]

Thankfully I have a year or so to talk some sense into him. He wants to bring a hatchet and a machete. He also wants to fish, hunt forage food and bring our small dog.

He wants to build our own primitive shelter. He is worried about running out of food and water.
He also thinks he can consistently carry 60 lbs. I told him to go start researching thru hiking the trail.

His only valid point so far is we are out of shape. He wants me to start exercising 3x a week.

No thanks. I'll start slow and get in shape on the trail.

[fiddlehead]

He was born 75 years too late.
I'd try to convince him that he could get arrested and fined for cutting down trees and even just marring them.
Also different hunting and fishing seasons and licenses needed in each state.
Otherwise, it's how we did it in the boy scouts back in the early 60's.
Of course we didn't hike very far
But we had fun.
He sounds like a "good ole boy"

[peakbagger]

I hope you are just venting. Few folks end their hike with the partner they started with. Maybe you will start together but its likely you two will go your separate ways. Depending on your age the concept of not getting in shape before a major hike is not great. You may make it for awhile but things like stress fractures in your feet will crop up and that is the end of the hike. Far better to put in miles in advance to build up the bones.

[illabelle]

The trail will teach him better than you can. His expectations will change when confronted with the realities of walking mile after mile, uphill, downhill, in the rain, in the heat, carrying a 60-pound pack and a tired dog.

The difficulty I see is in the relationship between you when he discovers how wrong he is. Will he resent you? Get ticked off and want to go home? If that happens, does that wreck your thru-hike?

My thinking is that the two of you must must must spend a week in the backcountry - maybe in Arkansas - to get your hiking approaches aligned. Be humble, maybe the trail will teach you something too. Good luck and Happy New Year!! :)

[MtDoraDave]

I strongly suggest to anyone who is planning a thru-hike to go out and do a week or two section hike; preferably on the AT.
A friend of mine here in central FL is planning her 2020 thru hike, and I've been giving her tips on equipment and strategy. No, I have not thru hiked, but I've completed about a third of the AT a week at a time, and my equipment and attitude has changed dramatically since my first trip!
.
To put things into perspective, I try to imagine if everybody did the things I (or he or she or you) am doing, what would the result/damage be to the ecology/ environment/ landscape.
For instance, to use the example the OP provided, if everyone tried to create their own lean-to shelter along the way on the AT, it wouldn't be "wooded" very long. It would be an ugly, barren, hacked up landscape.
If everyone tried to hunt and pillage their way along, there would be no small animals to enjoy sighting, no blueberries, raspberries, blackberries, etc along the way.
If everyone attempted to burn their trash, the fire pits would be (even more so) overflowing with half burnt or unburnt trash!

[bigcranky]

He needs a big rifle and lots of ammo, too. :)

In all seriousness, the sort of nomadic travel he seems to be expecting is doable in some places. Maybe the far reaches of the Canadian wilderness. But the reality for the people who have historically lived this way is that they don't ever travel all that far. Set up camp, build some shelters, stay there for a few weeks, hunting and gathering. Pack up and move on a few miles, then camp again for several weeks.

Modern thru-hiking is a very specialized activity. The gear is highly specialized, based on the idea that you'll spend most of your time walking and sleeping. Many hikers find they have little time for cooking and eating, let alone needing to go find something to eat out in the woods. Walking 12-15 (or 20+) miles per day to finish the trail in one season doesn't leave time for much else than the walking. There's a reason why most experienced long distance hikers carry pretty much the same gear.

That said, I do see people with axes, climbing rope, fishing gear, etc., at the start of their hikes in Georgia. That stuff is almost always gone by the time they cross their first state line. They figure out very quickly that it's just not worth the weight.

The dog is a whole 'nother topic. I love dogs, and have had many dogs live with me over the years. A couple of them would have been fine hiking dogs, but I would not take one on a thru. It's just too much responsibility, and in my mind it reduces the chances of me finishing the trail.

[gracebowen]

Yes mostly venting. I talked him out of taking the dog by telling him about the mile of boulders and all the extra work taking a dog is. Especially a small one. I also got him out of the shelter building idea. In truth he only wanted to build one.

I don't think I'm gonna talk him out of the mini hatchet or machete. Like he said it's his weight.

Honestly him hiking with me will be a big asset. He can hopefully carry a bit of extra food for us to lower my pack weight.

I'm sure we will have our disagreements along the way. If we split up and go our separate ways it will mar but not ruin my hike.

One thing I am doing to prepare is losing weight. Since August I have lost 20 lbs.
I'm 5ft 6 in and last time I checked I weigh 167.

I do walk some and can hike 4 miles when I go hiking. Maybe when I lose a little more weight I'll work on exersizing more.

[gracebowen]

My pack weight will hopefully never be over 30 lbs when fully packed. I'm aiming for a base weight of 15 lbs or less.

[Puddlefish]

Mention to him that it's public shared land with millions of others, and it would be amazingly selfish to hatchet his way through. Suggest that he buy a few acres of his own to play junior boy scout in.

[Dan Roper]

Have him read one of the early chapters of A Walk in the Woods, where Bryson and Katz start at Amicalola Lodge and forge ahead to Spring and then on. Bryson does a masterful job of describing novices "meeting the trail." The trail soon teaches us that it's not just "another 40 pounds," "just a hatchet," "just another 7 miles." The book is a mishmash of things, but the author nails what its like for a newbie to hit the trail, suffer, endure and learn.

[Rift Zone]

His romanticized view of what it will be like out there is going to crash and burn real fast. Could take his hiking spirit with it. For the stake of holding on to your hiking partner for as long as possible, if nothing else, you definitely need to school him on some realities of the trail. A few acres to play in as suggested above might better suit him; could cost less too.

[Cheyou]

I love bush crafters on the trail . They love fires and carry heavy tools to maintain it. For me it’s win win, fire to cook with saving fuel and a good place to sit around and tell stories at night. They are like flatland Sherpas . Good luck on your hike.

Thom

[gracebowen]

My equipment and strategy changed drastically after my first weekend hiking trip.

[English Stu]

I found Ray Jardines book Beyond Backpacking very informative. His advice, before a thru, is a shakedown hike with all your gear for several hundred miles shadowing how you intend to do your hike; gives you confidence in yourself and your gear.
There has been plenty of views in the past on dogs on the trail.I too have had dogs and like them; however there is enough going on in a hike without caring for someone else who cannot speak and tell you how they feel. There is advice on the web on how many miles a day a dog breed can do and like,then think can they do it day after day.

[FreeGoldRush]

I do walk some and can hike 4 miles when I go hiking. Maybe when I lose a little more weight I'll work on exersizing more.

I assume you are being funny, but if this is serious consider a different mental state: Hike until something breaks, but stop before it does. Don't "exercise". Own the trail instead. Don't stop and smell the roses... yet. For now that will just be a convenient excuse for not doing miles. As soon as you are 80% recovered, then hit a steep trail again. Begin to look forward to sore muscles. It takes just a few days of sitting on the couch before you start going backwards, so get out and hike again real soon. Set goals. Don't do shorter hikes just because of whatever reason you come up with.

That's just a suggestion for where your head should be. I'm certainly not qualified to tell you how to push yourself physically.

[4eyedbuzzard]

I don't think I'm gonna talk him out of the mini hatchet or machete. You have time. Work on him. Aside from the negative attention one will receive from other hikers (some will simply laugh at his naivety, others will see him as a potential nutcase machete murderer:eek:), the amount of attention one could draw from law enforcement (Fed, State, and local - especially in NJ/NY) could "complicate" the hike. Google NJ and NY machete/knife laws - cops aren't going to be positively impressed. Add that in many (most?) lands (National and State Parks) the AT passes through the cutting of live vegetation is prohibited. Cut a marshmallow stick, probably okay. Clear out a new tent footprint area, probably not.

[Skyline]

If he sticks with this a year from now, I feel even more sorry for the dog.

[petedelisio]

Do a shakedown for up to/at least a week. Or do several...
Show him the miles a day you have to do to complete it in 6? or 7? months to walk the entirety of the trail.
And you expect to do 75% of that in your shake down.... And recalling that the terrain is much different were you are. So when you do seven miles... if on fairly level ground, it is only like 3 to 5 on the AT.
Or whatever, you get my point.

Ask him if he is willing to ditch just one before the start, the machete or the axe.... like wise with other stuff.. Ok he ditched the machete,
You may want to remind him that he may not want to pay for shipping to mail stuff home and will end up giving stuff away.

Or just roll with it... By the third week his pack may be lighter than yours.

What's in your gear load out?

[gracebowen]

I assume you are being funny, but if this is serious consider a different mental state: Hike until something breaks, but stop before it does. Don't "exercise". Own the trail instead. Don't stop and smell the roses... yet. For now that will just be a convenient excuse for not doing miles. As soon as you are 80% recovered, then hit a steep trail again. Begin to look forward to sore muscles. It takes just a few days of sitting on the couch before you start going backwards, so get out and hike again real soon. Set goals. Don't do shorter hikes just because of whatever reason you come up with.

That's just a suggestion for where your head should be. I'm certainly not qualified to tell you how to push yourself physically.

Nah that's brain fog from fireworks going off all night. That was a description of my current physical state. After my first weekend trip I realized how important every pound is and started working on lowering my body weight and pack weight.

[gracebowen]

If he sticks with this a year from now, I feel even more sorry for the dog.

I already said I talked him out of the dog.

[gracebowen]

Double post deleted.

[gracebowen]

[QUOTE=petedelisio;223280

What's in your gear load out?[/QUOTE]

I'm still working on my gear. I have a tarptent a pack and half of what I need to make 2 quilts. I plan to buy Cascade ??? Hiking poles and hopefully a Merino base layer.

We do have the ability to and have hiked some mederately strenouos trails. He is in much better shape than I am. We both like to hike

[capehiker]

Why are you so adverse to losing weight before you start? Honestly, I never understood that part. You want something so badly but don’t want to put in the effort?

[Captain Panda]

Tell him to stay at home, and you go by yourself!

[martinb]

Take him on a 3-4 day hike with all the junk he wants to bring. He'll be re-thinking things, especially if your kit is minimal.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Do a shakedown for up to/at least a week. Or do several...
Show him the miles a day you have to do to complete it in 6? or 7? months to walk the entirety of the trail.
And you expect to do 75% of that in your shake down.... And recalling that the terrain is much different were you are. So when you do seven miles... if on fairly level ground, it is only like 3 to 5 on the AT.
...
I've seen people who can walk 10 miles on flat ground that wouldn't last 1 mile in NH or ME.;)

[gracebowen]

Why are you so adverse to losing weight before you start? Honestly, I never understood that part. You want something so badly but don’t want to put in the effort?

Have you read any of my posts. I'm taking steps to lose pack and body weight.
Since August I've lost about 20 lbs of body weight. I estimate I've reduced my pack weight so far by about 5 lbs.

[Hatchet_1697]

Reading this reminded me of my cousin, he wanted to be the ultimate camper/backwoods man, it’s fun as heck but through hiking a trail requires you to be the ultimate hiker not an ultimate camper. Very different mindsets. Tried the ultimate camper routine for 100 miles of SNP and spent 8 months fixing plantar fasciitis. But he learned the difference between camping and hiking.

This book helped him understand. Me too.

https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Hikers-Gear-Guide-Second/dp/1426217846/ref=dp_ob_title_sports

As far as conditioning goes, challenge him to make it through week 1 of this basic backpacking conditioning course (it’s not even the mountain training). It’ll teach a lot about the value of removing ounces to drop pounds and what kind of shape you need to be in to avoid injury.

http://mtntactical.com/shop/backpacker-preseason-training-plan/

Good luck!






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[rickb]

I am thinking he is just messing with you.

Perhaps for fun, or just so you continue to do all advance work before he pulls his part together a week or two in advance.

Either way, I think I’d like him :-)

[kythruhiker]

As far as conditioning goes, challenge him to make it through week 1 of this basic backpacking conditioning course (it’s not even the mountain training). It’ll teach a lot about the value of removing ounces to drop pounds and what kind of shape you need to be in to avoid injury.

http://mtntactical.com/shop/backpacker-preseason-training-plan/



Wait, people actually pay someone $40 for a "backpacking" training plan? Fools and their money I guess.

[Traffic Jam]

I'm still working on my gear. I have a tarptent a pack and half of what I need to make 2 quilts. I plan to buy Cascade ??? Hiking poles and hopefully a Merino base layer.

We do have the ability to and have hiked some mederately strenouos trails. He is in much better shape than I am. We both like to hike
What are you using for your quilts?

[Slo-go'en]

Wait, people actually pay someone $40 for a "backpacking" training plan? Fools and their money I guess.

While not exactly rocket science, if you haven't a clue getting one is a good idea. Those that take Warren Doyle's AT thru hiking class have a high completion rate.

[Hatchet_1697]

While not exactly rocket science, if you haven't a clue getting one is a good idea. Those that take Warren Doyle's AT thru hiking class have a high completion rate.

From what I’ve seen I agree with Slo-go’en.

The AT in Georgia weeds out a lot of naive unprepared “thru hikers”. But as always HYOH. As retired military I’ve learned being prepared and well conditioned prevents injury and makes for a much more enjoyable hike.


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[gracebowen]

What are you using for your quilts?

Apex climashield for insulation. Haven't got the covering material yet.

[kythruhiker]

While not exactly rocket science, if you haven't a clue getting one is a good idea. Those that take Warren Doyle's AT thru hiking class have a high completion rate.

From a quick glance at the link, it appeared to just be a workout plan that (my assumption) wasn't AT specific or likely even long distance hiking specific...one could Google as much for free and learn how to train to hike with a pack.

[Dogwood]

Why did you choose a hiking partner with an approach so radically different than your own? And why are his ideas so wrong? Can't someone do a thru hike approaching it as he is? Don't fall into the mentality 'this is how a thru-hike has to be done.' Maybe he's going to do something uncommon in an uncommon way.

[Dogwood]

Wait, people actually pay someone $40 for a "backpacking" training plan? Fools and their money I guess.

Maybe these people are less foolish than assumed?

[gracebowen]

Why did you choose a hiking partner with an approach so radically different than your own? And why are his ideas so wrong? Can't someone do a thru hike approaching it as he is? Don't fall into the mentality 'this is how a thru-hike has to be done.' Maybe he's going to do something uncommon in an uncommon way.

Because believe it or not it's actually a good match. I'll hike the trail at my place and he will hike ahead and or take side trails. He might even go off trail a bit.

We will get close enough to the same page eventually. Hes just new to the thru hike concept.

He will probably enhance my hike.

It's mostly just a little venting. I'm sure I can get his pack to a more reasonable weight eventually

[gracebowen]

Why did you choose a hiking partner with an approach so radically different than your own? And why are his ideas so wrong? Can't someone do a thru hike approaching it as he is? Don't fall into the mentality 'this is how a thru-hike has to be done.' Maybe he's going to do something uncommon in an uncommon way.

Because believe it or not it's actually a good match. I'll hike the trail at my place and he will hike ahead and or take side trails. He might even go off trail a bit.

We will get close enough to the same page eventually. Hes just new to the thru hike concept.

He will probably enhance my hike.

It's mostly just a little venting. I'm sure I can get his pack to a more reasonable weight eventually

[Dogwood]

Specifically, how is it a good match? How specifically will the two of you enhance each? How will the two of you cause each other issues? Make a careful honest pro con inventory. Write it down. What does the balance sheet reveal pre hike? Have him do the same. Discuss this pre hike as part of the planning. You don't need to have all the answers pre hike but if there are issues pre hike they might magnify once on trail. Once on trail an individual new to LD hiking alone has so many new things to personally contend. Now, they can magnify on trail. Think of it like a marriage. Would you throw in with someone you felt not compatible? However, you might make it work if you organize yourselves loosely.

[gracebowen]

He pushes me beyond what I think my limits are. I get him to slow down and relax. One time we were on a day hike and I got stuck on a part he had just crossed. I literally couldn't moove. I was on a very narrow ledge and there was a very long drop if I fell. He took up a secure position and helped me across.

I'm sure there will be some conflict on the trail but we generally get over it quickly at home.

[DuneElliot]

He pushes me beyond what I think my limits are. I get him to slow down and relax. One time we were on a day hike and I got stuck on a part he had just crossed. I literally couldn't moove. I was on a very narrow ledge and there was a very long drop if I fell. He took up a secure position and helped me across.

I'm sure there will be some conflict on the trail but we generally get over it quickly at home.

Even though your hiking styles may be quite different and you are struggling to get his pack weight down I am guessing the two of you are pretty close as siblings and that is what will enhance the hike. If I had the chance to do a thru-hike with my sister I would absolutely JUMP at the opportunity (she never would as she's not into backpacking). You have a year...I think you'll get through to him with a few weeks out together. Ask him what he intends to do with the machete and axe...and then provide logical and concise objections/reasons...like legality of using/carrying them.

[4eyedbuzzard]

... And why are his ideas so wrong? Can't someone do a thru hike approaching it as he is? Don't fall into the mentality 'this is how a thru-hike has to be done.' Maybe he's going to do something uncommon in an uncommon way.
Good point. There was once a guy from Minnesota with 9 rolls of toilet paper and a lot of other baggage...

[MuddyWaters]

1. your brother is clueless
2. by tethering yoursef to a family member, youve just likely halved your odds of sucess.

Go do some training hikes in steep mountains with him.

[Traveler]

I am thinking he is just messing with you.

Perhaps for fun, or just so you continue to do all advance work before he pulls his part together a week or two in advance.

Kind of my thought too. I would get him a goalie mask for safety when using the machete and let him know LE should be able to sort things out.

[petedelisio]

How big is your brother? What Shape?
YOu?

You talk about splitting up taking different trails.. That can be OK, but can add a lot of stress as well.

He is worried about running out of food. Less extra stuff = more food.
By the sounds of it you probably are pushing that issue. Sounds like you may need a part time Sherpa.

[Dogwood]

... I would get him a goalie mask for safety when using the machete and let him know LE should be able to sort things out.
LOL Tell him you're bringing a weed wacker and chain saw. You're doing it the 'right way.'


Seriously, things/issues can tend to magnify on trail compared to at home. You'll each be under stress you're not familiar. Dealing positively with them challenges individuals. Now, you have added challenges as two people doing their first LD hike.

[swisscross]

Even though your hiking styles may be quite different and you are struggling to get his pack weight down I am guessing the two of you are pretty close as siblings and that is what will enhance the hike. If I had the chance to do a thru-hike with my sister I would absolutely JUMP at the opportunity (she never would as she's not into backpacking). You have a year...I think you'll get through to him with a few weeks out together. Ask him what he intends to do with the machete and axe...and then provide logical and concise objections/reasons...like legality of using/carrying them.

Why have not heard of such sister?

[stephanD]

I wouldn't hike with somebody carrying a hatchet and a machete, even if he's family. "Good ole boy" to one may be a "nutcase" to another. Prepare to get a lot of funny stares on the trail.....

[SkeeterPee]

I have done several trips with my brother and we have different styles. I would not want do a thru with him. we have different paces, different plans on when to take breaks, different desires about how closely we need to hike to each other, and probably others. I can do it for a week, and would enjoy visits from him if I do a thru, but not to be in lock step with him for 5 months.. We also would want to do different mileage so if you stick very close together all day your pace will be the slowest of each of you at any given time. Your days will be longer to get the same mileage as if you were separate. You will probably average less miles per day extending the number of days you are on trail.

[gracebowen]

Skeeter he doesn't have to hike close to me. He has agreed to hike at my place. We will both be fully equipped so if we split up we can both complete our hike. He will be fine camping and day hiking to wait for me too.

[HandyRandy]

I don’t think you need to worry about having the perfect amount of, and type of gear on a thru hike that has so many resupply points and trash cans. If someone is carrying something heavy or bulky that they don’t find useful on a daily basis, instinct will kick in soon enough and they will ditch it. Just do it at a proper trash can and not on the trail. Or mail it back home if it’s expensive, sentimental, or useful at a later date. If you find you are missing something, just add it to your pack at a resupply. Don’t let someone else’s gear choices stress you out.

[TexasBob]

........If someone is carrying something heavy or bulky that they don’t find useful on a daily basis, instinct will kick in soon enough and they will ditch it. ...........

I hiked the first 200 miles of the AT with a guy who started off sleeping with an 8 inch sheath knife in his sleeping bag "In case of bears". He sent the knife home before we left Georgia. Your brother will do the same with his useless stuff and if not then that's his choice to carry it.

[gracebowen]

The ax and hatchet are for turning dead wood into firewood for camp fire

[rmitchell]

The ax and hatchet are for turning dead wood into firewood for camp fire

If you cannot break it in the fork of a tree or by stepping on it, the wood is too big for a practical fire. Anything larger takes too long to burn up and leads to a smoldering hazard next morning .

[gracebowen]

I know .............not too short now

[Hatchet_1697]

... I can’t recall a single time on the AT (GA to CT) where we were unable to find enough firewood for an evening fire. All breakable by hand, foot, or rock.

Critter-wise, wild boar in GA worried me more than bears or rattlesnakes, the latter give you a warning (most times) and you can back away from their space. Boar you need to climb a tree fast! Haven’t reached moose country yet, but I’m thinking a big tree between you and it works better than a knife, maybe our NH friends have some advice.

[DuneElliot]

Why have not heard of such sister?

I've mentioned her...you just don't listen...lol

[4eyedbuzzard]

... Haven’t reached moose country yet, but I’m thinking a big tree between you and it works better than a knife, maybe our NH friends have some advice.Act like friendly flying squirrel comrade. :D You would want a LOT more obstacles than just one tree between you and a PO'ed moose. If you only have one tree between you, use it, but you messed up big-time. Maintain a respectful distance, and don't close that distance. They are territorial and will protect their area, including water spots. Cows with their calf and bulls in rut are also more easily agitated. Use common sense. If you are affecting its behavior you are too close. If it lays its ears back, paws at the ground, or smacks its lips/teeth, etc, you are WAY too close. Generally they are pretty chill. BUT... They are huge AND incredibly fast AND nimble. They will occasionally bluff charge if threatened - run away, they aren't looking to catch you and trample you to death for sport, they just want you gone.

[Hatchet_1697]

Act like friendly flying squirrel comrade. :D

Nice! Good advice, thanks Rocky!


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[illabelle]

A few people have mentioned that you shouldn't try to hike with someone whose pace/style don't match your own. My husband and I hike together. His long-legged pace is faster than mine, he likes longer rest periods and more frequent water breaks, but we make it work.

Going back to review the original post, I see a reference to "our small dog." This suggests to me that perhaps Grace and her brother share a home. If so, they have already made a thousand adjustments to each other in daily life. Not so very different from a married couple with respect to hiking.

[petedelisio]

If you cannot break it in the fork of a tree or by stepping on it, the wood is too big for a practical fire. Anything larger takes too long to burn up and leads to a smoldering hazard next morning .

You need an axe. You're marring the trees. ;)

[HandyRandy]

You need an axe. You're marring the trees. ;)

Don’t be silly now. A hatchet will fit inside your pack much easier. [emoji6]

[Hatchet_1697]

I vote for the chainsaw with hockey mask (for safety) recommendation, clearly the best option :)


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[Dogwood]

He pushes me beyond what I think my limits are. I get him to slow down and relax. One time we were on a day hike and I got stuck on a part he had just crossed. I literally couldn't moove. I was on a very narrow ledge and there was a very long drop if I fell. He took up a secure position and helped me across.

I'm sure there will be some conflict on the trail but we generally get over it quickly at home.


How? It will provide insight into how you as individual hikers and you, as in both on a thru hike together, might organize the hike. :-?

[Maineiac64]

Please, please youtube this.

[gracebowen]

How? It will provide insight into how you as individual hikers and you, as in both on a thru hike together, might organize the hike. :-?

There will be portions of the trail I find scary or difficult. He will help me. He helps me have more confidence in my abilities
Once on a day hike I got stuck. I was scared I would fall. He helped me get past that part.

The rest is hard to explain. On our day hikes when the trail is easy he does his own thing. Hikes ahead, takes a side trail goes off trail etc.When trail is hard he's there just in case.

[gracebowen]

Please, please youtube this.

I doubt it will be you tube worthy. I plan on keeping a trail journal though.

[HandyRandy]

Play it by ear and keep an open mind, plans are just silly.
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