Deleted threads

[saimyoji]

I've noticed a few deleted threads with the following reasons:

..tired of hearing about Hillary...

...Dumb....

..etc...

None of these posts were in a restricted forum: Straight Forward or the Ladies forum....

Are we sensing a wind of change here? Why?

Please note that this post is in the straight forward section...so I expect ALL posts that don't answer mine to be deleted.

GOOD LUCK!!

[Tha Wookie]

I too noticed that some older political threads are missing or misplaced. But I really don't care that much.

Remember this is a site run my normal people with normal biases.

It is not free speech, nor is it censorless.

[MOWGLI]

Ever been around a little kid who tells a funny joke, so you laugh? Then the kid says the joke 179 more times until you want to throttle him. Kinda like the whole thing with MS and facial hair, except that was never funny.

Ponder that for a while, and I think you have your answer.

By the way, since this is the straightforward thread, I'll be straight forward. Proper protocal would have been to send a PM to ATTROLL to ask this question.

[Rain Man]

Good thing I'm not the moderator, or else more crap would be deleted and more posters banned! So, be HAPPY, it could be worse. LOL

Rain:sunMan

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[TJ aka Teej]

If "Liberals burning Churches" isn't worth deleting, nothing is...

[hikerjohnd]

It is not free speech, nor is it censorless.


But it is member supported - therefore is subject to the wants and needs of the supporters.

If threads are being removed based on the view of the mod alone then something is wrong. If the members are requesting certain threads be removed then the mods are are doing their jobs.

[Sly]

If the members are requesting certain threads be removed then the mods are are doing their jobs.

While we're at it, delete all the repeatitious neo hammock threads, the neo Hillary threads, the Lobster troll threads and bring back the pissing in the shelter thread! ;)

[bfitz]

If "Liberals burning Churches" isn't worth deleting, nothing is...
Just a funny name for the neverending political debate that goes from thread to thread in the politics forum....same spirit as "good shot dick" etc.
It's logical to take out the trash when old useless threads clearly have outlived whatever use they may have had, though. However I think it ought to be fairly offensive or just absolutely absurdly stupid to deserve deletion...but I defer to those who do the work of running WB to set the standard. I figure they'd just say "Please stop" if anything annoyed them enough to warrant it. (Right?)

[Heater]

While we're at it, delete all the repeatitious neo hammock threads, the neo Hillary threads, the Lobster troll threads and bring back the pissing in the shelter thread! ;)

That weould prbably cut his post count by 80%. Then We could start working on all the repetitive poli-postings. That would do some real damage to a few here as well!
:D

[Roland]

I've never discovered a deleted thread. I've noticed when some threads were moved to a different forum, or in a few cases, threads were closed after the discussion got out of hand. This was always after repeated pleas from moderators were ignored.

If the practice of deleting threads exists, I haven't missed what's been deleted. IMO, the moderators have shown great restraint in dealing with some users/posts I've seen on WhiteBlaze.

[dje97001]

I'd like to second Roland. I would also like to say that the moderators of this site (Troll and Rock) have been extremely tolerant of a lot of garbage (and also a wide variety of perspectives and interests). Unlike some other sites (or one other site in particular...) there is virtually no limit to the discussion here.

I wouldn't complain at all if older threads (read: dead) that had nothing to do with hiking/environment/the trail, etc. were deleted. At that point they are just wasting space. Just my opinion. I think Troll and Rock have done (and are doing) a great job--and it is their site afterall.

[otterman]

I'd like to second Roland. I would also like to say that the moderators of this site (Troll and Rock) have been extremely tolerant of a lot of garbage (and also a wide variety of perspectives and interests). Unlike some other sites (or one other site in particular...) there is virtually no limit to the discussion here.

I wouldn't complain at all if older threads (read: dead) that had nothing to do with hiking/environment/the trail, etc. were deleted. At that point they are just wasting space. Just my opinion. I think Troll and Rock have done (and are doing) a great job--and it is their site afterall.

One hundred percent agree!

[Lone Wolf]

90% of the crap I type should be deleted.:)

[Fiddler]

None of these posts were in a restricted forum: Straight Forward or the Ladies forum....
Are we sensing a wind of change here? Why?

Remember this is a site run my normal people with normal biases.
It is not free speech, nor is it censorless.

But it is member supported - therefore is subject to the wants and needs of the supporters.
If threads are being removed based on the view of the mod alone then something is wrong. If the members are requesting certain threads be removed then the mods are are doing their jobs.

Unlike some other sites (or one other site in particular...) there is virtually no limit to the discussion here.
I think Troll and Rock have done (and are doing) a great job--and it is their site afterall.
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with what happens in relation to deletions. I was a lurker quite a while before I signed on. I saw how some of these things were happening before I joined. I donated once that started because I think this site is one of the best (if not the best) and deserving of support. I did not have to donate, I chose to. What I am saying is this: Since I accepted the site knowing what it was, I have no complaints as to what it is. Since I did not have to pay a subscription fee I can't see where I should be entitled to any additional priveleges a totally free (non-donating) member doesn't get. A subscription and a donation are two entirely different things. The ability to edit and the custom avatars are nice perks, but not necessary. If the MODs see fit to delete, let them delete. If a member doesn't like a post, don't read it. There are other members that do like such posts.
When I start sharing equally in "paying the bills", sharing expenses with Rock and Troll, and not just donating a small amount, I will then feel I have a legitimate right to dictate how the site is ran. Until that time I accept it as it is.

[Skyline]

Are threads being deleted, or simply moved to areas that require specific opt-in (registration)? I don't personally like this because it is still quasi-censorship (libraries do the same thing, for example, by moving sex education minors NEED--to a restricted "adult" area). But I respect ATtroll's right to run his site as he pleases. WB is not nearly as heavy-handed as some other sites (hiker and other topics) I regularly participate in.

Or, are threads actually being deleted?

If the former, it might be a good idea to leave the title up for all to see, but close posting to it. The one message under that title would describe where it has been moved to, and what you have to do to see it and/or post in it. Just my $.02 that might resolve bad feelings about moving a thread while still "protecting" virgin ears and eyes.

[Rain Man]

If threads are being removed based on the view of the mod alone then something is wrong. If the members are requesting certain threads be removed then the mods are are doing their jobs.

So, you believe the moderators work for us, and otherwise something is wrong, do you????!!!!! You think this is a dictatorship in which the _users_ are the dictators who dictate to the owners when and how high to jump????!!!!!

You want ATTroll and SGT Rock to start saying "Yes Sir" and "No Sir" to you next?

Rain:sunMan

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[rusty075]

Let me preface my post by saying that: 1) this really only applies to the handful of threads that have been mentioned already in this thread, and threads like them. 2) Yes, I'm a relative newcomer here, so whether that gives my opinions more weight or less is up to you. I do have some experience in this sort of thing; I admin/moderate a website and forum that is several times the size of WB. Now having said that:


I'd vote for WB having even more moderation than it currently does.

At some point you need to rein in posters whose actions are detrimental to the stated goals of the site. WB is a narrowly-focused site, and first time visitors almost certainly come specifically for info and discussion on hiking the AT. Peripheral discussions to that end are important, and should be encouraged, but when the treads devolve to cock-waving between a steady handful of forum regulars it turns new-users away. Sometimes it seems that pretty much any tread here at WB that gets past page 3 has become an OT pissing contest.

Not that there's anything wrong with having a forum that caters to a core handful of users, of course. If that's what Troll and Rock want, that's great, but if it's not, then some of the threads that occur here need to be more tightly controlled. I can tell you first hand that the perception of WB to a new user can be less than positive.

[JimSproul]

Hey Rusty glad you are with us. I agree with much of what you said. That is why there is a "Straight Forward" forum for threads where we hope people's discussion may wander less. I am one of the moderators that deletes messages, not threads.

The idea is an area for people who care less about the general mumblings of fellow Whiteblazers and more about a specific topic. For example, I have removed some messages from this thread because they were about politics, not deleted threads. I don't care what the topic is, in this forum, you just have to stay on topic. Seems fair to me. You will notice that is certainly not the case in other forums.

[Fiddler]

Are threads being deleted, or simply moved to areas that require specific opt-in (registration)?
This will work for moved threads, but not for deletions. All you have to do is a search on some key word of the thread, only takes a few seconds, this brings up all postings with those key words. Then find the one you want. Or click on your user name in the online users panel at the bottom of the main page, or your user name on any of your posts. This will bring up your profile page. Click on "find all posts", click your most recent post to the thread in question, and you're there.

[KirkMcquest]

Some threads, like the religion thread, were deleted without any warning or explanation, poof, just gone. There was no argument, no name calling, things were not getting 'out of control'. Alot of people were contributing and enjoying the thread.

I think certain monitors didn't like some of the opinions that others were expressing.

[MOWGLI]

The idea is an area for people who care less about the general mumblings of fellow Whiteblazers and more about a specific topic. For example, I have removed some messages from this thread because they were about politics, not deleted threads.

I'm not complaining Jim, but I think you need to realize that deterimining what is on or off topic can be very subjective. For instance, in the first post of this thread, a male member of WB asks about deleted posts in the Women's hiking forum. Dixiecritter has chastised male members here for going into and posting to that forum, and explained that it was setup for the female members of WB. I asked what was a guy was doing in the Women's thread, and that deleted. Was that post deemed to be political, off topic, or "general mumblings"? IMO, any post by any guy in the Women's forum should be deleted, regardless of intention, but I'm not a moderator.

[dixicritter]

Ok let's clear some things up...

- Most posts are not deleted just because it upsets a mod or admin. It takes someone (a member or two or three) asking us to step in usually. The only exception to this is when a post contains vulgarity or threats.

- Threads are moved out of the AT forums when they do not revolve around hiking (such as the religion thread, which I do not believe was deleted but moved to the general non-AT forum). Since hiking and more specifically hiking the AT are the primary focus of WB that should make sense to everyone.

- Threads have been deleted and/or merged due to multiple postings of the same topic. However with multiples, one thread is usually left in tact for posting.

- As to my chastising male board members about posting to the female hiking forum, Yes I have asked that the men remember this was set up for the females to feel comfortable asking their questions. However, I have also stated that civilized, respectful posts by the guys here are acceptable.

Why threads like this keep popping up without a single PM or email to the administrators of this site is beyond me. Calling out the folks that run the site seems to just stir up everyone, when the question could be asked without causing an uproar. Attroll, SGT Rock and myself would be more than happy to answer your questions (ok so Rock isn't really available right now, but if he were he'd answer) and try to help clear things up without having these threads every month or so.

Yes lately there have been threads that have disappeared for numerous reasons, however, "dumb" isn't one of them otherwise... well you know.

Sometimes too threads aren't always visible because they have fallen beyond the date set at the bottom of the forum for view-ability. Try setting the Display Options located at the bottom of every forum page to show all threads from the beginning of WB. I think you'll find that the threads you thought were gone just were hidden by the software, not by a mod or admin.

I hope this clears some things up, sorry it's not a short answer, but there really is no short answer to this question. Threads and posts that are deleted or moved are done so on a case by case basis... end of story.

[bfitz]

You guys are awesome. I have never had cause to complain.

[Gray Blazer]

I, myself, learn from all the theads and posts, AND, enjoy the humorous postings. example: the post in the straight forward topics this morning was about gaiters but it was entitled gators on the AT, I assume to get peoples attention. I graduated from the University of FL ( Go Gators) so I naturally checked it out and, being me, I added something short about Gator basketball and found out it was deleted by Jim Sproul. If the thread was about gaiters but it said Gators, isn't that off topic? Using that logic, shouldn't the whole thread have been eliminated. Jim, I noticed you are from Texas. If the thread was about Longhorns on Hump Mt. you might want to say something about Texas Longhorns. I doubt you would because you don't seem to have a sense of humor. Maybe you are prejudiced against me because I see other members inane posts that are not deleted. If people don't like my posts, can't they put me on their ignore list? I'm sorry, I was born in The USA and I grew up believing in free speech. I know I should bite my tongue more often, but, I always keep it short. This is probably my longest post ever.

[max patch]

I think anything neo starts oughta automatically go straight to delete.

[Lump76]

Just a quick comment on the female forums. I haven't posted there myself... but I find them very helpful as I plan to take my girlfriend on her first section hike this summer. She has questions about things that I as a guy wouldn't even think about. So when I don't know the answer, I search the female forums on Whiteblaze, and I can usually find the answer for her. She's also very busy as a school teacher and doesn't have much time to spend online reading up on these things. So even though the forums are intended for women, I find them useful to me as well.

[TJ aka Teej]

Just a funny name for the neverending political debate that goes from thread to thread in the politics forum....
Your claim that your "Liberals burning churches" thread is "politics" notwithstanding, politics should stay in the politics forum.

[TJ aka Teej]

Why threads like this keep popping up without a single PM or email to the administrators of this site is beyond me.

It's because some confuse 'moderator' with 'monitor', dixi.

[Fiddler]

I added something short about Gator basketball and found out it was deleted by Jim Sproul. If the thread was about gaiters but it said Gators, isn't that off topic? Using that logic, shouldn't the whole thread have been eliminated.I too had a post deleted by Jim Sproul a short while ago. It was in the Straight Forward forum. I expressed my opinion on the topic of the thread, almost identical in wording to a few other replies, only this was my opinion. And very much on topic. No explanation was ever given for the deletion. And none of the other similar statements were deleted. However, since I was fairly new on WB at the time, and the person I was disagreeing with had been here a good bit longer than me, I can only assume I disagreed with the wrong type of person. Like maybe a seniority thing.

[QHShowoman]

Despite the play on words in the thread title, the intent of the thread was to solicit feedback about the use of Gaiters. This is the straight forward forum so one can reasonably assume that posts referring to alligators (real or team mascot) would be deleted.

[Alligator]

Occasionally threads do disappear, sadly there is once in a great while a masterpiece among them. It doesn't happen very often. More often threads are just moved and members of the dumass family can't find them. Then they cry. Boo hoo, the mods have it out for me.

My suggestion is to be as liberal as possible before deleting a thread, but to be a little freer in closing a thread if it is felt to be necessary. Mods can explain why something was closed and folks have the opportunity to assess what was said. If it's deleted, it becomes more rumor.

[saimyoji]

I misspoke when I said that threads were being deleted...I am aware that some get moved, merged and know where to dig those out.

I meant to say some "posts" were being deleted in a seemingly unfair/random way. Some of my posts that were on topic were deleted, as were some from others that I thought contributed to the thread. The reasons given were as I stated above. I can't remember for the life of me what threads they were on, but someone with a faster connection than I could certainly find them.

I'd like to appologize to ATTroll, Dixie and JS. I do appreciate the hard work and BS you put up with here (even from ME!) and did not mean to stir the pot. In future I will PM you directly as per your preference.

[Alligator]

...
I meant to say some "posts" were being deleted in a seemingly unfair/random way. Some of my posts that were on topic were deleted, as were some from others that I thought contributed to the thread. The reasons given were as I stated above. I can't remember for the life of me what threads they were on, but someone with a faster connection than I could certainly find them.
...
Deleted posts do not show up in search. I just tried a search on Mowgli's posts from today, as one of his was deleted. They don't show up, so it will be hard to see where you are talking about.

Can you provide examples of where this has happened? Cite the thread and post number please. Deleted posts are very rare except edits by users (i.e. outside of the women's and straight forward forums).

[saimyoji]

Deleted posts do not show up in search. I just tried a search on Mowgli's posts from today, as one of his was deleted. They don't show up, so it will be hard to see where you are talking about.

Can you provide examples of where this has happened? Cite the thread and post number please. Deleted posts are very rare except edits by users (i.e. outside of the women's and straight forward forums).

Yeah, I know deleted posts don't show up....Again, I can't remember which threads they were on, and did spend some time going through the past few days threads, but can't seem to find them. It sucks to make a statement like that and not be able to back it up with evidence....so maybe until they're found its better to let this die off.

Here's a suggestion: no I'll send it to Troll first, he can respond publicly if he chooses....

[dixicritter]

I misspoke when I said that threads were being deleted...I am aware that some get moved, merged and know where to dig those out.

I meant to say some "posts" were being deleted in a seemingly unfair/random way. Some of my posts that were on topic were deleted, as were some from others that I thought contributed to the thread. The reasons given were as I stated above. I can't remember for the life of me what threads they were on, but someone with a faster connection than I could certainly find them.

I'd like to appologize to ATTroll, Dixie and JS. I do appreciate the hard work and BS you put up with here (even from ME!) and did not mean to stir the pot. In future I will PM you directly as per your preference.

I see what you're saying now. It is very rare that I delete a single post, and when I do it is mainly in the female forum for an inappropriate comment which is usually noted by me. Maybe what should happen is for the moderator that deletes a post give a short reason for the deletion. Even if the only reason given is "off topic" or as in my case "inappropriate comment". It is nice to know why a post is deleted, and I've had it happen to me too without explanation. When I asked I got an immediate answer that I could live with. :)

[Just Jeff]

There are several deleted posts in the "Favorite Quotes" thread. A quick PM to Jim Sproul explained why...they were off topic in the Straight Forward forum.

I disagreed that they were off topic since they were discussing the quotes in the thread, but it was as easy as a PM to the moderator listed in those deleted threads to find out why it happened. And even though we disagreed, Jim was very cordial and friendly in his responses.

Perhaps members being straight forward with the moderators would answer these questions without all the hassle...i.e. in a PM rather than calling them out, all confrontation-like, in the thread. (This thread seems to be asking a question...I'm talking about the ones accusing censorship and such.)

It's only censorship when the government does it. Otherwise, as in this site, it's moderation...you're free to express your opinions elsewhere, but if the mods decide it's not good for this site, it should be handled any way they wish. Rather than bitching about it, address the issue with them in a polite, straight forward manner...or go somewhere else. I'm sure they'll be responsive to what the members want if the members ask nicely. Just look at all the thread attroll started before making the recent changes.

Just my non-moderator two cents. Thanks for your work, mods.

[Nean]

While a PM may be more direct, we all learn what's up when it is discussed in the open. I've noticed things have changed recently on WB. Many more deleted post. Seems more hairs are being split nowdays? When SGT. Rock returns it is my guess that there will be less to be deleted.

[Gray Blazer]

I, myself, appreciate what people in charge are doing for this site, even Mr. Sproul, however, I would rather read or not read each post than to read "this post was eliminated by.........". To me, it just doesn't seem right.

[Fiddler]

I, myself, appreciate what people in charge are doing for this site, even Mr. Sproul, however, I would rather read or not read each post than to read "this post was eliminated by.........". To me, it just doesn't seem right.At the least, for the reason of simple courtesy, after the "this post was eliminated by........." there could be something like "for the following reason: (reason goes here)".

[Just Jeff]

Putting a reason on there would be a great idea. Then if you have more questions you can still PM the moderator.

Things are changing on WB. There has been a significant increase in the politics/religion/liberal-conservative-bashing in the last few months than when I first joined. That's probably why more posts are being deleted now. I'm not sure Rock would disagree with how it's been moderated, but I guess we'll find out when he gets back (Just wait till your daddy gets home!).

[Rain Man]

We need MORE supervision of some miscreants, who seem to stupidly spray innocent bystanders with testosterone and then revel in seeing who can use the most thinly disguised foul language that is so bad it's otherwise blocked by the software.

It's bad enough in the general forums. Now there are "men" (and I use the word loosely) going to the forums for women and girls, and seeing who can act most macho by using words that people with social graces don't use. If words are bad enough for the moderators to set up software to block them, then anyone who attempts to circumvent those blocks should be given a little "vacation" from WhiteBlaze, until they learn to act decently. There are places for them and their conduct, just not here.

Frankly, it's pitiful. The more jerks on WhiteBlaze, and the more they are allowed to gradually spoil the good nature of WhiteBlaze, the farther WhiteBlaze slips down the slope. If this is to be a site for immature potty mouths and faux-machoism, it's not going to be the classy place I want to be associated with.

Rain:sunMan

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[max patch]

We need MORE supervision of some miscreants, who seem to stupidly spray innocent bystanders with testosterone and then revel in seeing who can use the most thinly disguised foul language that is so bad it's otherwise blocked by the software.

It's bad enough in the general forums. Now there are "men" (and I use the word loosely) going to the forums for women and girls, and seeing who can act most macho by using words that people with social graces don't use. If words are bad enough for the moderators to set up software to block them, then anyone who attempts to circumvent those blocks should be given a little "vacation" from WhiteBlaze, until they learn to act decently. There are places for them and their conduct, just not here.

Frankly, it's pitiful. The more jerks on WhiteBlaze, and the more they are allowed to gradually spoil the good nature of WhiteBlaze, the farther WhiteBlaze slips down the slope. If this is to be a site for immature potty mouths and faux-machoism, it's not going to be the classy place I want to be associated with.

Rain:sunMan

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Rain Man you are 100% correct.

While "free speech" sounds good there are always a few who screw it up for everyone. If a site -- any site -- wants to stay true to its Mission Statement then the mods have to be Benevolelent Dictators and delete individual posts, entire threads, or specific individuals as warranted.

White Blaze is at a crossroads. Will be interesting to see which fork in the road it takes.

[dixicritter]

While a PM may be more direct, we all learn what's up when it is discussed in the open. I've noticed things have changed recently on WB. Many more deleted post. Seems more hairs are being split nowdays? When SGT. Rock returns it is my guess that there will be less to be deleted.

SGT Rock knows what's going on, I keep him well informed. And you just demonstrated why PM's are preferable to open discussion on deleted threads/posts. If this thread had never been started you wouldn't have made that comment. :rolleyes:

[MOWGLI]

SGT Rock knows what's going on, I keep him well informed.

Good! Please inform him that he's missed, in a very straightforward kind of way.

[bfitz]

Your claim that your "Liberals burning churches" thread is "politics" notwithstanding, politics should stay in the politics forum.You're right. I didn't notice...obviously it should be in the right forum. Outright deletion of sarcasm seems a little extreme, though, unless it's vulgar or more than just toungue-in-cheek insulting......

[Pacific Tortuga]

It says Jim Sproul and Doctari are allowed to deleat threads. Are they playing good cop bad cop because all I see is Jim Sproul deleting the unwanted posts, has Doctari deleted any? Are these two gentelman choisen for their sence of fair play and can be relied apon for fair non predjidous evaluations on all subjects,I think not ,we are all human but I trust ATtroll and the Rock,God speed,to over-see us all.

[Rain Man]

It says Jim Sproul and Doctari are allowed to deleat threads. ... Are these two gentelman choisen for their sence of fair play and can be relied apon for fair non predjidous evaluations on all subjects...

Lots of forum sites and groups have a small group of trusted individual members with authority to reject, edit, move, and/or delete posts and threads. There's no way ATTroll and SGT Rock alone can keep up every minute of every day with 7,000+ members and hundreds or thousands of posts and threads. They couldn't take time to go to the privy, much less take a vacation or, er, honeymoon if they and they alone had to police everything!

Do all co-moderators all do it exactly the same way each and every time? No,-- as you say, they're human. But this methodology works better than any other known to humankind. And if other members don't like it, they even get to whine publicly about it. Can't get much fairer than that.

Rain:sunMan

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[attroll]

We need MORE supervision of some miscreants, who seem to stupidly spray innocent bystanders with testosterone and then revel in seeing who can use the most thinly disguised foul language that is so bad it's otherwise blocked by the software.

It's bad enough in the general forums. Now there are "men" (and I use the word loosely) going to the forums for women and girls, and seeing who can act most macho by using words that people with social graces don't use. If words are bad enough for the moderators to set up software to block them, then anyone who attempts to circumvent those blocks should be given a little "vacation" from WhiteBlaze, until they learn to act decently. There are places for them and their conduct, just not here.

Frankly, it's pitiful. The more jerks on WhiteBlaze, and the more they are allowed to gradually spoil the good nature of WhiteBlaze, the farther WhiteBlaze slips down the slope. If this is to be a site for immature potty mouths and faux-machoism, it's not going to be the classy place I want to be associated with.

Rain:sunMan

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Amen to that. It is all about being macho like you said.

[attroll]

wbdent We are going to go on and on about this forever. If you don’t like how we handle things on the site then go to www.trailpace.com (http://www.trailpace.com). When you have a site like this that gets over 300 posts a day it is hard to see everything. Yes there are some posts that we let slide. If I had my way about it I would be deleting a lot more then what we delete now. But I try and run the site the way you users want it run. But you can not please everyone. So that has to be a point where we take a stand on things.

wbdent The Straight Forward forum is just that. It is for users that want to post questions or discuss a topic without it getting hijacked and having the thread changing from what it was intended to be about. So if you want to post something that will not go off track then that is the forum to post it in. The rules are posted in that forum and if you can not abide by those rules then do not post or reply to anything in that forum.

wbdent As mentioned by Rain Man. The female hiking forums were created for females to discuss there concerns with each other and not have to worry about men trying to post to show their macho side or their testosterone start speaking. We wanted to make the female forums so that only females could read them, but there were a few males that wined and cried about it and some of the points were valid points. So the females on the forum told us to give it a chance. But then like all good things we had some males that had to make asses out of themselves and we had to delete there posts. Since then it has been discussed again that maybe we should make the female forums private to females only. There is always a selected amount of people that have to ruin it for the rest of us.

wbdent SGT Rock let a lot of things slide. But I think his outlook will change when he comes back and see 400 post being posted on the site every day and some of those post are just meaningless post like. “I love Hillary” and I could go on with more examples of some of these meaningless post. But I think you get my point. The site was created for preparing and hiking the Appalachian Trail and helping other planning on doing that along with staying in contact with fellow hikers and thinks of that nature. It was not create to see how much foul language as user can get away with or who can make the most posts or for bickering with each other. Let us try and get this site back on track and help us out here. A little bickering is not a problem and general chit chat is not the problem. We allow the freedom of speech on this site which other sites do not let you get away with the things you do here. But people are taking advantage of it here. The way we meant the freedom of speech to be used here was not by the use of profanity and other things that have been happening.

wbdent Your thinking does this mean we are going to be monitored even worse then we are now. No we are asking for you help. We could start editing and deleting post a lot more then what we do now. But we do not want to do that. We are a Appalachian Trail hiking site and we want to try and keep it that way and stay on track. There are other sites that you can discuss other things not related to hiking on. We even opened up a Non-AT hiking forum for users to post in that you have to sign up for so we can keep the main forums AT related only but yet users still have to post politics in the non AT forums. So we have to start somewhere.

wbdent I could go on and on and on. The point is we are a Appalachian Trail community and forum. We should be getting long and sticking to the purpose of the site. Not trying to see who can post the most, use foul language, bicker or just cause trouble.

[Frosty]

But it is member supported - therefore is subject to the wants and needs of the supporters.This doesn't make logical sense to me. It is backwards. Members support it because it is what they want, not the other way around.

I think the moderators do an excellent job of maintaining the site they want to maintain, a site for discussing hiking in general and the AT in particular.

As Tha Wookie said, it isn't free speech, and it isn't unmoderated.

It is a site that a few people run for a specific purpose. It is their right to keep what they want. I have yet to see them delete any thread that fit thier vision and mission for their website.

My 2 cents.

[MOWGLI]

**** Since then it has been discussed again that maybe we should make the female forums private to females only.

Do it. Today. Or tomorrow. Or next week. Great idea.

[the goat]

Since then it has been discussed again that maybe we should make the female forums private to females only. There is always a selected amount of people that have to ruin it for the rest of us.

SGT Rock let a lot of things slide. But I think his outlook will change when he comes back and see 400 post being posted on the site every day and some of those post are just meaningless post like. “I love Hillary” and I could go on with more examples of some of these meaningless post. But I think you get my point.

here, here! good points all around, troll. bandwidth is a terrible thing to waste, especially on pointless inanity.

not that i haven't been guilty of some inanity myself (although i always try to have a point); that said, there are some constant, daily, habitual offenders.

[Vi+]

Attroll,

Reference your Post #49 regarding the thread “Deleted Threads.”

“We are going to go on and on about this forever.”

Well, I hope not but I do have some questions, probably since I’m new here, and some observations I’d like to make, even though I’m new here.

“If you don’t like how we handle things on the site then go to www.trailpace.com.” (http://www.trailpace.com.%E2%80%9D)

This reminds me of, “America, love it or leave it.” which is at the least illogical in its application, as well as a bit harsh. I realize a moderated site isn’t the equivalent of a “free” country but, still, it’s a little disconcerting. It’s fairly obvious to me that if anyone here wanted to be somewhere else, they wouldn’t be reading the posts or posting here.

“The Straight Forward forum is just that. It is for users that want to post questions or discuss a topic without it getting hijacked and having the thread changing from what it was intended to be about. So if you want to post something that will not go off track then that is the forum to post it in.”

This sounds good, but it also suggests that other forums, those which aren’t designated “Straight Forward,” actually welcome such hijacking.

What of forums which suggest to some hiker there is a slightly different topic which would benefit from similar treatment as does this topic? I don’t know if it’s feasible to begin other, almost redundant, threads to test whether other people are interested in discussing them. If divergence is prohibited on an existing thread, how then would someone invite comments on a new thread? Administering such blossoming threads would probably become even more work than the current system.

“The female hiking forums were created for females to discuss there concerns with each other and not have to worry about men trying to post to show their macho side or their testosterone start speaking.”

This is a great sentiment, but I don’t know how you can realistically design or enforce it.

“(W)e had some males that had to make asses out of themselves ...”

They will always be with us. I manage to pull this trick off myself, with some embarrassing regularity.

“Your thinking does this mean we are going to be monitored even worse then we are now. No we are asking for you help.”

I think this idea of getting the “good guys” (whoever they are) to gently nudge the occasional miscreant back into the fold is an excellent one. You didn’t, however, pursue this further. I don’t know how to do it, so don’t ask me, but I think it’s probably the gentlest guidance system and just might work.

“There are other sites that you can discuss other things not related to hiking on. We even opened up a Non-AT hiking forum for users to post in that you have to sign up for so we can keep the main forums AT related only but yet users still have to post politics in the non AT forums.”

Non-hiking topics have run, and some have enjoyed long runs, with very little disrespect shown for quite opposing views (e.g., religion, and homosexual hikers). I’ve been, in large part, quite favorably impressed by the people here. Moderators have entered to prod us to remain civil, then left us to our ways, and return again seemingly as needed. When a thread has been permitted to run, it gains legitimacy, even when it’s not directly about hiking. Then the threads seem to evaporate.

On a thread which became a combination “Name Them” and “Express Your Indignation” thread, the thread just stopped; the end was there to read, but no more discussion was to be tolerated.

[At this point, let me just say two words: “Yuri” & “Nate.”]

I suspect the passionate reaction, expressed by some posts on that thread about entries disappearing from a Trail Journal, is what kept this thread from disappearing completely. To me, the thread at worst contained some embarrassment. We read from some hikers, for whom we have developed a high regard, an attitude which reminded me of the mob, in an old Grade B Western, working itself up outside a jail to spring some guy so we could “string ‘im up.” I’m left to wonder, did the motivation to stop this thread come from a sense of embarrassment?

I’ve become a bit peeved when I’ve been sufficiently stimulated by posts on a thread to write something, to find the thread has simply disappeared. I read something in one “disappeared” thread which directed anyone interested in continuing the discussion to sign up at the bottom of the Home Page (at least that’s how I interpreted the directions). I never found the sign-up sheet.

I don’t think I’m all that bothered by the editing, but I’m disappointed by the lack of even the briefest explanation.

On a much more positive note, I don’t have the slightest idea how you guys (whoever “you guys” are) do all this but it’s got to be a hassle. You’ve put together something very worthwhile.

Thanks.

[Mongoose2]

ATTroll is right. This is a VERY freewheeling site. If you want to view a HEAVILY censored site, please visit trailplace.com. View the political ranting and the upside down flag, and post a very polite dissenting opinion. Your post will be deleted and your user name will be locked out of the site. But it is "his" site and he can do as he wishes. And I can choose to change the channel.

ATTroll, Sgt Rock, Dixicritter; thank you for a great website for me and my son. We hike our hike together, and both get so much out of this site!

[attroll]

I don’t think I’m all that bothered by the editing, but I’m disappointed by the lack of even the briefest explanation.

On a much more positive note, I don’t have the slightest idea how you guys (whoever “you guys” are) do all this but it’s got to be a hassle. You’ve put together something very worthwhile.

Thanks.

You can subscribe to these other non AT forums by going to your USERCP and then
clicking on GROUP MEMBERSHIPS and then a list will come op of additional
groups you can subscribe to. Or you could bypass doing all that and go to
this link here.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/profile.php?do=editusergroups (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/profile.php?do=editusergroups)

Yes you are right it does become a hassle sometimes. I spend over 1 1/2 hours sometimes every night answering emails and PMs. I always answer my emails and PM's right away and anyone that has corresponded with me can vouch for that. A good webmaster will not leave people hanging for weeks waiting for a response. I am not saying I am good. But I try to represent the site the best I can. It is hard to take the time to explain every time you delete a post to users. Sometimes rather then get approval from the member on whether it should be deleted it is better to just delete it. This web site has grown so big and there is a lot of information on it to be had. So sometimes the name calling and any foul language being posted is easier to just deleted rather that deal with the user.

A good example of people trying to see how much they can get away with is the response to Jacks post. He was upset when he posted something and apologized for it but look how many times other users had to use the word moosecock to trying and be funny or just to point out Jacks error in his language. I was going to remove the posts in this refering to the word I mentioned but I left it up for an example to show others what I was referring to earlier. So you can read it starting from post #9.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13317

[hikerjohnd]

This doesn't make logical sense to me. It is backwards. Members support it because it is what they want, not the other way around.
Let me clarify - I look at this site as much the same thing as public television. As a paying supporter I have to right to voice my opinion about what I think is right and wrong with programming. The mods have the option to do what they want with that opinion, but if they want to continue to receive support, they have to be receptive to wants and needs of the members. As a supporter, if the site does not continue to meet my needs (ie unresponsive mods), then my money can be better spent elsewhere.


I think the moderators do an excellent job of maintaining the site they want to maintain, a site for discussing hiking in general and the AT in particular.
Agreed 100% - That's why I donate now and will in the forseeable future continue to donate (whether solicited or not:D)

[hikerjohnd]

So, you believe the moderators work for us, and otherwise something is wrong, do you????!!!!! You think this is a dictatorship in which the _users_ are the dictators who dictate to the owners when and how high to jump????!!!!!

You want ATTroll and SGT Rock to start saying "Yes Sir" and "No Sir" to you next?

Rain:sunMan

.

I certainly hope there is a level of jest here... but I will respond anyway. Yes - the mods are working for the members (both contributing and non). If there were no members then what is the point? All I am saying is that the site has to meet the needs of the membership - if this site did not meet your needs, and offered you nothing of value, would you keep coming back?

I am certainly not asking anyine to call me sir - and I do not believe my comments have led anyone to believe that is what I desire.

[peter_pan]

This is and has been my favorite site for a couple of years now....I have donated through out this period...I'm quite happy with how it is being run...personally, I ignore the usual trolls and political and or religious threads, yet I scan them periodically to keep a sense of the posters and the issues, if any.

I think debate on the hiking related questions, gear, techniques is healthy.... I do not believe that personal attacks, foul language is appropriate... Discussion is the cornerstone of the site....keep the volume up and the breadth wide.... Just respect one another and each individual's right to their opinion... Remember this is data for each of us to adopt, reject, test, modify, etc...Almost all of it should come with a disclaimer that it is one persons experience or opinion and is offered for information only.

I support moving the threads that are off subject and hijack the site with bickering to the off subject area...

Personaly, I think it is great that through the avitars, tag lines, signatures, subject participation, writing styles, wit, brevity, verboseness, abrupness, repitition, pictures etc that personality is easily expressed and understood here at Whiteblaze.

Glad that you guys and gals are all here and participating.... Hope that the lurkers register and participate ... This is a great place with great members.... even if a little esoteric or acrimonius at times.

That said, Thanks again AT Troll, Sgt Rock and Dixie for all you do.

Pan

[QHShowoman]

Attroll,

“If you don’t like how we handle things on the site then go to www.trailpace.com.” (http://www.trailpace.com.%E2%80%9D)

This reminds me of, “America, love it or leave it.” which is at the least illogical in its application, as well as a bit harsh. I realize a moderated site isn’t the equivalent of a “free” country but, still, it’s a little disconcerting. It’s fairly obvious to me that if anyone here wanted to be somewhere else, they wouldn’t be reading the posts or posting here.



There was probably some jest behind the comment to go to trailplace.com ... the message boards on trailplace are moderated very strictly. It is widely known that anyone who posts something that dissents from the moderator of trailplace will be censored. When members complain about censorship on WhiteBlaze and other respond with "the join trailplace," it's because folks here on WhiteBlaze often don't realize how good they've got it.

[attroll]

There was probably some jest behind the comment to go to trailplace.com ... the message boards on trailplace are moderated very strictly. It is widely known that anyone who posts something that dissents from the moderator of trailplace will be censored. When members complain about censorship on WhiteBlaze and other respond with "the join trailplace," it's because folks here on WhiteBlaze often don't realize how good they've got it.

That is exactly what I was trying to say QHShowoman. I am sorry if it did not come out that way. But that was my point and thank you for helping me clarify that QHShowoman.