View Full Version : Food Optimization on the Trail
I will admit that I am a food enthusiast. I am working on developing a new way of trail nutrition. My thoughts of this nutritional theory stem from my understanding of the ABS diet. Throughout the day, I stayed more full. I also had more energy and motivation. For me, maintaining my blood sugar was an important thing. It was also one of my primary focuses when putting together my new meal system.
One pillar of my system, is variety. It is my belief that different foods often metabolize at different rates. Even methods of preparation can change some of these factors. When I want to add some oatmeal to a recipe, I do not simply just add oatmeal. I add both steel cut and instant oatmeal. These perform completely differently in the body. However, I don't feel that two types of grain would be enough, so I also add in quinoa, cornmeal, and some rice. Another example is how I add beans to my recipe. In one meal, when I want to add beans, I add in an assortment of dried uncooked beans. I also add in beans which have been sprouted and dried. I may add in some dehydrated refried beans as well. It's my belief that the sprouted beans will provide additional nutrients and additional variety for energy for our body. I also feel that it's important to vary the types of beans in a meal, as more variety is a constant focus.
The second pillar of my system is cold soaking. I am a big fan of cold soaking nearly every food. I feel that cold soaking is the procedure that can help with the many different grain and bean types. Some would argue that this increases the carried weight, but I see reduced cooking times and fuel consumption as two large benefits.
The third pillar of my system is sprouting. There are several bean varieties that I really enjoy while sprouted. Not only do I enjoy their flavor, but I feel that grown sprouts are the most efficient trail food. My favorite sprout to eat also has the benefit of multiplication. This sprout grows to at least 5 times the volume of the original bean. I've never measured it, so it could be upwards of twenty times the volume. I will be carrying several hemp sprouting bags. I do not want just one, because I like to cycle my sprouts for freshness. These fresh sprouts will be sauteed, added to nearly any meal, or eaten raw. To me, the benefit of growing food while on the trail is immense. It's the type of nutrition that I want to add to all of my dehydrated meals.
As I describe my system, just understand that it's just some fundamentals of thinking for me. It's the food that I think my body will respond to most effectively. I am not going to be making all of my own food, as I have around a dozen number 10 cans of Mountain House meals. As my journey on the AT this year will focus on food, I am having a fun time getting my food together. There are several spices that I've put together that just make me smile each time that I taste them. I imagine that spices and seasonings are going to be one of the major things that keeps me entertained.
Gambit McCrae
01-22-2019, 11:01
My trail diet consists of jerky with cheese, combos, skittles, gummy worms, tuna packets, mashed potato's, a mountain house meal about once a year(aint had one in years now). Some chalula hot sauce, and as much Jack Daniels as I can stuff into an old ginger ale bottle that has made it all the way from Springer to Hanover, New Hampshire. I don't know about others, but I just don't have time to be sproutin beans on the trail. Seems time consuming, tinder and I could eat about all the beans in one sitting that I could possibly sprout over the span of days. Also with this system of mine, involves cramming as much town food down my goozle as I can stand while resupplying. :)
Slo-go'en
01-22-2019, 11:35
I'm with Gambit on this one. Honey buns, GORP and pasta with tuna are my staples. Maybe not the best diet, but I'm only out for 4-6 weeks at a time and that stuff is cheap at the dollar store.
Meals which take a long time to cook or prepare are quickly abandoned. I have a feeling your going to be eating up those cans of Mountain House rather then soaking and cooking beans and rice a lot. But heck, give it a try.
I don't feel that sprouting is time consuming at all. Perhaps you've had a different experience. For me, it's as simple as squirting some water onto a hemp bag for a rinse. Considering how much I'll be filtering water on the trail, I find this a quick task.
Slo, maybe you've missed the part where I talk about cold soaking. In no way am I going to sit around soaking and cooking beans and rice for my meals. I'm an experienced hiker, and I'm very conservative with fuel. I soak the entire bag of food throughout the day, hydrating all of those long cooking foods. I could eat these foods straight after soak. If I want to cook the food, then the cooking time has been reduced significantly.
I'm also concerned about chemicals found in dollar store food. Not healthy over the long run
FreeGoldRush
01-22-2019, 12:01
I'm also concerned about chemicals found in dollar store food. Not healthy over the long run
People poor hot water into plastic zip-locks or right into the powdered potato or Knorr Side bags. I figure that by using a titanium pot and washing it I'm consuming about 98% less plastic than the "mix hot water and plastic" crowd.
grubbster
01-22-2019, 12:27
Something to consider with long cold soaking and sprouts is microbial growth contamination. It's not a nice time to have certain organisms proliferating in your food. If I am going to add water to food for an extended period of time I prefer it to be boiling first.
I have sprouted mung beans on the trail during a several-weeks long trip. It worked great, was very lightweight, took no effort to speak of, and provided fresh veggies. That said, I've since decided that wildcrafting provides an ever fresher and more fulfilling food experience than carrying my own sprouts.
... and as much Jack Daniels as I can stuff into an old ginger ale bottle ...
You can fit "more" JD in a bottle if that JD is "barrel proof"! (See also "Barrel strength" or "cask strength"). No reason to carry the extra water around that distilleries like to put in their usual bottled stuff.
People poor hot water into plastic zip-locks or right into the powdered potato or Knorr Side bags. I figure that by using a titanium pot and washing it I'm consuming about 98% less plastic than the "mix hot water and plastic" crowd.
Truth. People also smoke cigarettes and if you're not one of them you're probably much healthier than those folks also. Still, most people that never go camping eat food full of non-edible garbage, so you and Trambo might be talking about different things really.
Gambit McCrae
01-22-2019, 13:38
You can fit "more" JD in a bottle if that JD is "barrel proof"! (See also "Barrel strength" or "cask strength"). No reason to carry the extra water around that distilleries like to put in their usual bottled stuff.
Ill have to check that out!
People poor hot water into plastic zip-locks or right into the powdered potato or Knorr Side bags. I figure that by using a titanium pot and washing it I'm consuming about 98% less plastic than the "mix hot water and plastic" crowd.
My go to for cold soaking is going to be freezer grade ziploc. I'm going to have 2 dedicated just for this. My go to for hot is going to be in a heat safe plastic bag bowl thing.
Something to consider with long cold soaking and sprouts is microbial growth contamination. It's not a nice time to have certain organisms proliferating in your food. If I am going to add water to food for an extended period of time I prefer it to be boiling first.
Oh, I'm definitely scared of mold and bacteria. In order for a system like this to work, I need to cycle my beans through different bags. I'll sprout just what I need for the day, and then my next day's eating will be in another bag. I need three bags at the minimum. I will also be washing these bags with soap after each harvest. I am also going to keep access to the minimum. Once the sprouts go into the bag, I don't open the bag except to harvest. I feel that this also will limit microbial growth, as it often comes from someone sticking their dirty hand into the sprouting container.
I have sprouted mung beans on the trail during a several-weeks long trip. It worked great, was very lightweight, took no effort to speak of, and provided fresh veggies. That said, I've since decided that wildcrafting provides an ever fresher and more fulfilling food experience than carrying my own sprouts. For me, sprouting is easy. I'm glad to hear that you had the same experience. I'm not saying that the people who think it's a ton of effort are wrong, but maybe that they had a bad experience. I will gladly accept a food that will grow in two days. I'm also considering carrying a container so that I can expose my sprouts to the sun before I eat them. I enjoy mung beans, but my favorite type outshines them. The flavor is much better than mung beans, but I have a 5 pound bag of mung beans, and none of the others. When you say wildcrafting, are you talking about foraging? If I was more confident, I would consider foraging .... although foraging on a trail as traveled as the AT is a bit sketchy. I would consider foraging more for wilderness, and not places where people pee constantly.
When you say wildcrafting, are you talking about foraging? If I was more confident, I would consider foraging .... although foraging on a trail as traveled as the AT is a bit sketchy. I would consider foraging more for wilderness, and not places where people pee constantly.
Yes indeed, foraging. Sorel, fern tips, watercress, etc. All great veggies. Not sure what have there on the AT.
Someone mentioned SPAM in an earlier reply. You'd better believe that I'm dehydrating SPAM, Black Label Bacon, and some other delicious meats. I've actually refined quite an effective way of dehydrating SPAM. First, I cut it into small dices. I try to keep it as consistent as I can here. Next comes a sautee in a pan. I don't like the taste of SPAM, but fry it crispy and I'm into it. My favorite SPAM is the bacon variety by the way. When I get a good sautee on the spam, I toss in a bunch of salt. I then sautee the spam in the salt. I do this, thinking of the old recipe to create salt pork. After this salt sautee, I then put the meat in a strainer and run water over it. Letting it drain in the strainer, I dump it onto a paper towel and pat it dry. Then, it's back to the sautee pan which has been rinsed and put back on the heat to dry. Here we're removing the outside moisture from the spam bits. After a sautee back to dry, they go into the dehydrator. This has been my most successful method.
As for mentioning that I will eat more of the mountain house number 10 cans than my own food ..... I hope not!!! It's not that I hate mountain house, but I definitely think that they can be improved. I'm still working on getting my food completely situated, but there are three phases that I am looking at for my food. First is the food that I dehydrate that must be eaten. These are things that I am currently keeping in the freezer. If I can't trust it for six months, then I eat it first. Then is a middle period where I'm using the food that I have prepared as well as the mountain house meals that I feel need eaten first. The last period are the mountain house meals that I see as the most shelf stable.
I'm also going to be baking sourdough bread on the trail. It's kind of a focus of this project that I'm putting together.
but I definitely think that they can be improved.
In what way......?
How can the Mountain House meals be improved? This is the same way that I would amend any meal. Let's say that I've opened up a lasagna and meat sauce. A can has around 7 servings. Even though each foil packet has 1.5 servings, I split it into 7 bags (since I intend to add to each). Now, with 7 different bags in front of me, I get to improving the meals.
One of the first thing that I add is my thickener mix. In this mix are potato flakes, parm cheese, oats, and chia seeds. I add this thickener mix to all of the meals (as a baseline), and then I customize each one differently. Variety here is important to me, so I make a conscious effort to create different flavor profiles in each one. I'm not talking about having a slightly different seasoning, but attempting to use the base to make a different meal all together. I do the same thing with leftovers.
This part is where creativity and pallete play a part. Lasagna is a bit more difficult to completely change, so I chose that as a challenge. Something such as chicken and noodles would be much simpler. Here, I think of the meal as three parts: the base (starch/noodle/bean), the sauce, and the meat. Changing those three things will wildly vary the recipe. You don't need to factor in the thickening agent here, because that mix is simply to allow you to add more water and give additional variety to the meal.
Seasoning is life. I know that some people will argue, and say that it's needless weight ..... but, my trip is a pushback against the ideal that weight means everything. I feel that my morale will be raised from the additional flavorings and options that my seasonings afford me. For this reason, I'll be carrying an assortment of self made spices. I do not want to get bored with my food.
As for varying the lasagna meals ( I haven't done this yet, so just talking you through my process ), we'll discuss some different options. You can either take the cheap and easy road here, or make each of these things from your own ingredients and seasonings. If you wish to take that route, then I suggest the 4-1-1 cookbook. It's how to make DIY versions of nearly any seasoning, mix, or sauce. For the most part, I am making my own additions here, but I will not waste a store bought package of something. If you wanted to make a rice based dish, then you can add a rice side to one of the bags. Maybe you want to add a box of mac and cheese to make a double noodle cheesy casserole. You could add a box of Au Gratin potatoes, or just a butt load of instant potatoes and cheese.
Looking at the sauce will then give additional options. Let's say that in one bag you put a broccoli cheese rice side in with the lasagna. I add more variety to the meal, by splitting half into another bag (this is all based on how much you add and how much you intend to eat). This is where I must put on my culinary hat, and design some combinations that work well together. For one of the bags, I would make it into more of a cream sauce soup mixture. Here, I will add in powdered milk, some soup seasoning like bouillon (or dehydrated cream of something soup).
We will be adding some additional things in the last step, but the focus here is to make very different meals from the same base. Since the other bag was a creamy soup, I attempt to create a different textured meal. Here I might shoot for a meal that I would get at an italian restaurant. I think of this as if I'm preparing Lasagna with a side of broccoli cheese rice. It definitely needs some additional meat added, but what else would make this a meal that I enjoy? I would try to make some dehydrated garlic bread dumplings to go with the meal.
Once I get my variety straightened out, then I "fill out" my meals. Here is where I'll add some extra cheese, fiddle with some seasonings, and add in all of my little extras. For these two meals, I would be adding quite a few extras in. To both, I would be adding dehydrated caramelized onions, roasted minced garlic, various dried veggies like spinach flakes, corn, tomatoes, green beans, pickles. Also, in each meal there will be a variety of dry or sprouted beans that get added. Some of these are charo beans, pinto beans, refried beans, ranch style beans, lentils, mung beans, and chickpeas. The attempt here is to add these at a level where they don't change the meal significantly.
Ideally, I will end up with a bag of food that should feed me for an entire day. I'm not really focusing on portioning out each bag into a finite serving, and carrying a specific number of servings with me for each section. I intend to do more trail macgyvering with my food than most. I still will be modifying food on the trail. I might take a scoop of one meal, and two scoops of another. This means that I could grab one scoop of Lasagna and veggies, and two scoops of asian chicken noodles. This would give me a meal different than another that I had before. At the end, it's HYOH. Some people might love mountain house .... whereas I desire better. It's also important to point out that the goal is not just flavor diversity, but also diversity of nutrition.
I thought I'd share a perfect example of this optimization with you all, that I just did.
Mezzeti makes these hot chili peppers that are really delicious, so I decided to dehydrate them. As a test, I would make sure that each pepper would crack to pieces between my fingers. I then poured the seeds into my spicy seasoning. This spicy seasoning has tons of things in it, like hot salt, paprika, jalapeno powder, yellow and brown mustard seeds, and good things like garlic salt pepper and such. It now contained pickled chili pepper seeds. I took the large flakes of peppers and added them to four bags of food (a little into my jerk chicken, good amount into cream of jalapeno and poblanos, and then a random). With the little that was left, I decided that I could make something else fun.
I took the remaining dry pickled pepper flakes, and added a good amount of chunky tomatoes, onions, and cilantro for something close to pico de gallo. There was some roasted garlic and vegetable flakes added, but this was kept fairly simple. The large bags of food are then the base that I add to this backcountry pico. If I was to make something to go with the pico, I would start with the mountain house chicken and noodles. I would have in my mind to attempt a chicken and cheese enchilada. All I would need to add is some enchilada sauce (I am likely to make my own), and some cheese powder.
The beauty comes from the simplicity of the method. Since I am cold soaking in a container different from food storage, this gives me the ability to really customize my food. I could add the pico to the enchilada mixture before I soak, or I could keep them totally separate. I would also only be using a spoon full (or two) of pico for the meal, so a mixture like this pico will go far solo. I'll probably also use it as a base for a meal bag or two, as it would work well as a hearty tomato veggie soup.
Indeed, I've also been doing trails sprouts. I was shifted the hemp bag and Organic seed. Hung off teh back of the pack. Eating raw sprouts are better since you're not 'killing' the enzymes.
Asa Foodie I almost aways have a clove garlic fresh, turmeric, and ginger rhizome, cinnamon, chia, hemp and sesame seed, sprouted nuts,....
Wooohoooo, another person who enjoys sprouts on the trail. Honestly, I don't know why this isn't more common. Having something crisp and fresh helps to brighten my day. My favorite bean to sprout is called a "moth bean". It is absolutely delicious. It's everything good about the mung bean, plus better growing and better taste. I'm likely going to sprout a mix of mung and moth beans, but I've got to test that out first. I really don't like sprouting more than one type. If they have the same growth rate, then it won't be a big problem.
I've never really gotten into sprouting or making milk from nuts. I have no doubt that these two things would also be beneficial during long distance treks.
One of my favorite meals to make with moth or mung sprouts, is a salad with a coleslaw style dressing. Lemon juice, a tad of sugar, red pepper flakes,pickles, parmesean, pepper, and it's good to go. I do agree with you about raw sprouts being better nutrition, but I am also dehydrating the sprouts to add to the meals. I feel that this is better than any other alternative, and it's a good supplement to the live sprouts.
As a Foodie I almost aways have a clove garlic fresh, turmeric, and ginger rhizome, cinnamon, chia, hemp and sesame seed, sprouted nuts,....
As a Foodie, we would have some delicious meals together. That's kind of what I'm hoping for, is to hike with someone who is equally as passionate about quality food. Some people could see foodies as picky. That's a fair description, but I enjoy quality food. I didn't get much joy from the plain ole dill pickle slices that I dehydrated. However, it excites me when I dehydrate something such as Dave's spicy pickle chips. It's the difference between dehydrating onions, or taking the time to slowly caramelize onions in a sautee pan with coconut oil. I add salt near the very end of the sautee process. The combination of these things make the onions taste very similar to french fried onions. As a foodie, I get excited by the little extra steps to make a meal special.
I made a trip out to Dollar Tree today, to see what cheap food that I could find. I didn't find much to talk about there, except for freeze dried apple slices. Most everything is better bought in bulk than at the dollar store, but it's an option for many. The apples are good, and I also picked up some sunflower seeds and banana chips. I also bought three things to attempt to dehydrate. I got a nice 8 ounce bag of oreo minis (thinking of separating them and dehydrating them), generic fig newtons, and a 1 pound package of gnocchi.
For the gnocchi, I am going to try multiple ways of dehydrating them. I will try a few whole, a few cut in half, and a few sliced. I'm thinking that gnocchi slices will dehydrate into something similar to potato pearls (we'll see).
Anybody got an Over/Under guess on how many trail days before Trambo reverts to a “traditional” AT trail menu?
Using Dollar Stores in the generic sense, they are often your only food source. Your choice has been made for you. Pop Tarts, Little Debbie, Snickers, Slim Jim’s, etc. An example: The AT crossing at Hwy. 19E. Elk Park, NC has a newish Dollar General and a gas station convenience store less than a mile from the trail.
Enjoy.
Wayne
LittleTim
01-24-2019, 22:45
Anybody got an Over/Under guess on how many trail days before Trambo reverts to a “traditional” AT trail menu?
Depends on what their definition of 'experienced hiker' entails. Some people have experience hiking big miles, camping, sprouting, cooking, and roughing it. Does Trambo have all the above simultaneously in the same trek? If so, then it all amounts to how much grit one possesses. If not, then it depends on how flexible one is on holding fast to one's convictions. There was a hiker/blogger that I was sure wouldn't make it two weeks on her entirely raw diet that almost made it to Harper's Ferry before deciding the daily chores/monotony wasn't worth the effort. Kudos to anyone that makes the hike theirs for however long it may be!
Mountain Mike
01-25-2019, 00:21
I met a trio on their third year of a thru hike of the PCT. They would hike about 8 miles a day. When the weather turned they would find a job for the winter. Save up for the next season & continue on. Their food was heavy but I was envious of it. Who is doing it wrong? HYOH.
Anybody got an Over/Under guess on how many trail days before Trambo reverts to a “traditional” AT trail menu?
You may think that you're humorous, but you're just being rude.
Depends on what their definition of 'experienced hiker' entails. Some people have experience hiking big miles, camping, sprouting, cooking, and roughing it. Does Trambo have all the above simultaneously in the same trek? If so, then it all amounts to how much grit one possesses. If not, then it depends on how flexible one is on holding fast to one's convictions. There was a hiker/blogger that I was sure wouldn't make it two weeks on her entirely raw diet that almost made it to Harper's Ferry before deciding the daily chores/monotony wasn't worth the effort. Kudos to anyone that makes the hike theirs for however long it may be!
I appreciate the Kudos at the end .... but I do not think that we should even reply to such an offensive question.
I met a trio on their third year of a thru hike of the PCT. They would hike about 8 miles a day. When the weather turned they would find a job for the winter. Save up for the next season & continue on. Their food was heavy but I was envious of it. Who is doing it wrong? HYOH.
Look at how much money they have saved over those three years, and I bet they have some great stories to boot. There are some that focus on adding up the miles, and others that focus on adding up experiences. There could even be the argument that the trio experienced the PCT much more than regular thru hikers. Their time gives them a much more intimate understanding of the trek, compared to someone who blazed through it deliriously. Neither wrong, just different ......
I have news of success. The gnocchi came out amazing. When I sliced them bilaterally, the would break. When I would sliced as a load of bread, they stayed together perfectly. These little slices dehydrated nicely. Today, I tested out these gnocchi, and boy were they delicious.
They rehydrated quite easily. I did a quick mash with a fork after they got soft. This was a perfect addition to the meal.
All I can say is wow..... I'm going to blow some minds with some of this food. If you're going to be NOBO this year, I will make someone a few meal samples.
Interesting and thoughtful post Trambo. Thanks.
MuddyWaters
01-27-2019, 07:01
Start date?
Journal?
Walking 10 hrs per day dont leave a lot of time to futz with food
Or, leave the desire to do so.
Its a necessity, not a pleasure on the trail, imo.
Be very interesting to see how your enthusiasm holds up.
Most want to eat as fast as possible, and finally lay down and rest.
Muddy, thanks for the reply. You're definitely correct ....... Most people don't want to mess around with too much food prep on trail. I absolutely love cooking, and I can see methods of doing this efficiently. I can't tell you how much eating that meal with gnocchi last night motivates me. Perhaps there will be a job with a backpacking food company after my trail. I've looked into creating my own, but I'd really just like being on the creative side and not starting and running a business.
Start Date? Well, that's a bit murky at this time. My absolute latest start date is the beginning of April. Currently, I'm expecting to start between mid March and the end of March.
The easiest way to recognize me, will be seeing my tarp. I don't want to explain my trip in great detail, but let's just say that there's much already planned for this hike. I'm designing a winter tarp to be printed for this trip. If you see a covered wagon on the trail, it's me. Come chat. We can share some stories. Here is a link that shows the design process for my tarp. https://imgur.com/a/p5PEBCd
Luckily, I do not find myself following most people. I share my love for others through food. I also enjoy helping others, and feel that some trail magic needs to come from hikers also. I do not anticipate a problem stopping and baking for 20 or 30 minutes. I'll likely be doing this for both lunch and dinner.
"Be very interesting to see how your enthusiasm holds up" .... thank's Muddy. I do appreciate that. Of course, I'm planning to be enthusiastic the entire trip ...... but, we know how best laid plans end up. To be honest, I'm pretty stubborn and creative. If I was able to stay enthusiastic about MREs throughout my entire service, then staying enthusiastic about my own created food should be easy. I had so much fun trading and customizing those horribly chemical meals. Every other soldier just sucked down their food, and I always took the extra few steps to make a great meal.
I haven't decided how I am going to journal this trip. Part of the beauty is getting away from my electronics addiction. I'm a videographer, so I would enjoy filming my journey. I've got a rainproof 3 axis remote controlled gimbal system that would be a blast to record with. I'm still iffy about taking that, as it's a bunch of extra weight, but it would produce some absolutely amazing shots. Doing a video journal would mean more trips to town, to upload videos and charge batteries.
Here's a picture of a loaf that I would give to someone on the trail. It was so delicious, that I didn't slather coconut oil over it. I ate the entire thing plain.
44540
"Seasoning is life. I know that some people will argue, and say that it's needless weight ..... but, my trip is a pushback against the ideal that weight means everything. I feel that my morale will be raised from the additional flavorings and options that my seasonings afford me. For this reason, I'll be carrying an assortment of self made spices. I do not want to get bored with my food ;having something crisp and fresh helps to brighten my day."
Thoughtful perspectives.
Dry spices and seasoning mixes I separate in my mind. Reduce the wt by repackaging into smaller amts into lesser wt smaller baggies. The glass bottles, plastic containers, and tin cans, can often weigh more than the dry wt of the spices. Additionally, a small baggie is easily condensable saving bulk as consumables are reduced.
My favorite bean to sprout is called a "moth bean". It is absolutely delicious. It's everything good about the mung bean, plus better growing and better taste. I'm likely going to sprout a mix of mung and moth beans, but I've got to test that out first. I really don't like sprouting more than one type. If they have the same growth rate, then it won't be a big problem.
Thank you. I don't recall ever hearing about the moth bean. Where do you get them?
Good reminder about sprouting seeds with the same growth rate.
Anybody got an Over/Under guess on how many trail days before Trambo reverts to a “traditional” AT trail menu?
Using Dollar Stores in the generic sense, they are often your only food source. Your choice has been made for you. Pop Tarts, Little Debbie, Snickers, Slim Jim’s, etc. An example: The AT crossing at Hwy. 19E. Elk Park, NC has a newish Dollar General and a gas station convenience store less than a mile from the trail.
Enjoy.
Wayne
I wouldn't bet against him doing it his food way because he's leaving his options open while going in having a wide range of them.
It's a myth, especially for AT resupply, one absolutely has to relegate themselves to DG's or traditional(common) junk food diets.
FWIW, IMO what Trambo is doing is facilitating HYOH.
Depends on what their definition of 'experienced hiker' entails. Some people have experience hiking big miles, camping, sprouting, cooking, and roughing it. Does Trambo have all the above simultaneously in the same trek? If so, then it all amounts to how much grit one possesses. If not, then it depends on how flexible one is on holding fast to one's convictions. There was a hiker/blogger that I was sure wouldn't make it two weeks on her entirely raw diet that almost made it to Harper's Ferry before deciding the daily chores/monotony wasn't worth the effort. Kudos to anyone that makes the hike theirs for however long it may be!
Nice way to phrase it.
Dogwood, I found moth beans (commonly called mat bean, moth bean, matki, Turkish gram or dew bean (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigna_aconitifolia)) at an Indian grocery store. I've found those are the cheapest place to find beans to sprout. It really is delicious, and I need to buy more.
Another interesting sprout is Fenugreek. I sprouted many varieties just to try, and this was an odd one. There is a smell to this one, that is hard to describe. It's used as a maple imitation, but that taste isn't from the sprouts. They have a slight mustardish taste, again hard to describe. I really enjoy mustard sprouts also, but those seeds and sprouts are really small. The last thing that I want are sprouts that are difficult to keep clean on the trail. I'm going to stick with big easy ones.
How can I explain moth beans? Mung bean sprouts are pretty darn bland, but they often have this hint of a little twang to them. Moth beans have none of that. It's just crisp and tasty. Moth beans also grow much quicker than it's mung counterpart. I would start with approximately 20% of a mason jar with the dry bean before the soak. Within four days time, two mason jars were filled. I'm approximating the grow time, because I wasn't really timing it ..... but, I was floored by this one variety.
I was taking a break from planning my trip, and watching some youtube videos on Gracie BJJ. Wouldn't you know it, but this video really dives into nutrition and mindset of endurance athletes. One unique view was that he relished (enjoyed/loved/cherished) the feelings of being exhausted and broken down. He was also talking about keeping his body at the minimal of being fed. He would want just enough energy to get through the task. His meals were also spread out into many small meals through the day. As I spoke in the beginning of this thread, I really enjoy the ABS diet. These are some of the foundation of that diet, and it's how I've been looking at my upcoming journey. This athlete's perspective is unique, because he does it eating fish only, and fighting mma. This definitely isn't the journey where I would stop eating meat cold turkey (perhaps the wrong term in this situation). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_7huOfVMP0
I use to focus on little baggies, but I think that I'm going to be focusing on using paper bags to store things internally. There's no reason for each to have a ziploc baggie, if all of my seasonings and additives can fit in one ziploc. What do I mean when I say additives? I've got some things like thickening mixes that I can use if I added to much water, or if I want to intentionally stretch a meal out a little further. This will have a bunch of potato flakes, chia seed, and a whole variety of grains. The idea is that I can add it, and it won't disrupt the flavor. A second thickener mix is mainly potato flakes and parm cheese (along with a lower mix of seeds and grains). For some meals, you almost get a whole different meal if you simply change the consistency of it.
I love it trambo....Good hikes...goood food...good sleep. Life is short, eat it up
stephanD
01-31-2019, 13:23
All I need on the trail are four food items: Peanut butter, Hard cheese (e.g. cheddar), whole wheat tortilla wraps, and raisins. This diet gives you all the nutrition you need; the fats, proteins, carbs, fibers, and the minerals and electrolytes (Mg, Ca, Na, k+, etc). In towns, I buy all the fruits and vegetables that I can for vitamins.
And of course, coffee...
I use to focus on little baggies, but I think that I'm going to be focusing on using paper bags to store things internally. There's no reason for each to have a ziploc baggie, if all of my seasonings and additives can fit in one ziploc. What do I mean when I say additives? I've got some things like thickening mixes that I can use if I added to much water, or if I want to intentionally stretch a meal out a little further. This will have a bunch of potato flakes, chia seed, and a whole variety of grains. The idea is that I can add it, and it won't disrupt the flavor. A second thickener mix is mainly potato flakes and parm cheese (along with a lower mix of seeds and grains). For some meals, you almost get a whole different meal if you simply change the consistency of it.
Some grocery food stores like WFoods, Earthfare, and "healthfood" stores sell spices in bulk, from bulk containers, allowing to buy as much or as little as one may want. They provide tiny plastic sealable bags. Taking a few choice .3 oz or so dry spices is less bulky and heavy than essential oils. The wt and bulk can be minimal while maximizing tastes. Some dried spices enable you to make your own tinctures on trail by soaking in water. You can also buy loose tea, coffee, and PB and almond butter. Same places offer a diversity of dried grains, fruits, and seeds.
It's hilarious the people who suggest that everyone else follows their boring food list. I am discussing varied nutrition sources, and eating junk doesn't follow that thinking.
You're not proving that you're hardcore because you eat four things. The fact that you think this is nutritious or tasteful is ridiculous. That's your opinion, and you'll find no nutritionist that would support four months of four foods only.
Dried spices are not comparable in my opinion, but thank you for your suggestion. Oils last me a very longtime, so I don't need to take much. What's your solution? To carry many spice bags, and then to carry many different container to solute those spices? That's inefficient, more hassle, and you lose much nutrients with ground spices. Carrying whole spices is even less desired. I'm not scared of spices. You should see the seasoning blends that I have. You can't hydrate spices in water and then apply to skin. That's just going to make a mess. I appreciate you attempt, but suggesting alternatives than oils is against the point of the thread of discussion, and just incorrect. Do you go to a thread discussing how to fix a part on a tent, and tell them to use a hammock? Is that constructive?
I found some great food deals over the past few days. I found six ounces of shredded brisket without sauce for a dollar twenty five (was bogo). Then, I found this can of fire roasted tomatoes with garlic, for free when purchase a 78 cent can of refried beans. I had to buy a bunch, when I found the liquid tastes just like v8.
Now I make a bark out of that liquid, and it's absolutely delicious. Its as if a v8 dissolves in my mouth. I bought twelve cans of that last night, and I already had four from the past grocery trip.
A CAN of refried beans? For backpacking? Surely you jest?
I’ve paid as little as $1.00 for a package of these. Andrew Skurka has a recipe for beans and rice based on these instant beans.
https://santafebean.com/Santa_Fe_Bean_Company/Products.html
Wayne
A CAN of refried beans? For backpacking? Surely you jest?
I’ve paid as little as $1.00 for a package of these. Andrew Skurka has a recipe for beans and rice based on these instant beans.
https://santafebean.com/Santa_Fe_Bean_Company/Products.html
Wayne
Harmony House dehydrated beans (https://www.harmonyhousefoods.com/Bean-Legume-Sampler-8-ZIP-Pouches_p_1847.html) also re-hydrate easily and there are several different beans to choose from. Notice these are dehydrated, not just dried. It's different than what is typically at the grocery store.
stephanD
02-01-2019, 09:38
It's hilarious the people who suggest that everyone else follows their boring food list. I am discussing varied nutrition sources, and eating junk doesn't follow that thinking.
You're not proving that you're hardcore because you eat four things. The fact that you think this is nutritious or tasteful is ridiculous. That's your opinion, and you'll find no nutritionist that would support four months of four foods only.
You can add those tuna pouches and make it five, but i stopped buying them because of the smell. Beside, what I meant is that this is what you NEED. If you have peanuts allergy, or you are lactose intolerant, that is not going to work for you.
It always amazes me when someone shows up and asks questions, then chooses to argue with everyone that responds, even the ones that are clearly agreeing with many of the OP's general ideas. At this point I should be used to it.
stephanD
02-01-2019, 09:53
It always amazes me when someone shows up and asks questions, then chooses to argue with everyone that responds, even the ones that are clearly agreeing with many of the OP's general ideas. At this point I should be used to it.
Yes. And many of the food items mentioned in this thread cannot be easily found, unless you go to a specialty store.
It always amazes me when someone shows up and asks questions, then chooses to argue with everyone that responds, even the ones that are clearly agreeing with many of the OP's general ideas. At this point I should be used to it.
That's not that uncommon. Ahh, Trambo is just working out his hike and he's sharing as much or more than it seems he's asking. Don't let it bother you. Offer something possibly useful. If it's accepted great. If not we put it out there. We can learn something from others if we stay open when we disagree too. That's what a conversation and greater understanding is about. ;)
Yes. And many of the food items mentioned in this thread cannot be easily found, unless you go to a specialty store.
Respectfully, :) actually if one does look most of these items can be found at mainstream grocery stores, even most WallyWorlds. I don't think you can get moth beans there but I could be wrong as WallyWorlds do stock merchandise according to regional preferences. For example, essential oils for about $1.25 are found in the vitamin aisle of all the WallyWorlds I've looked. Gnocchi is found in DG's and WWorlds. Seeds to sprout aren't difficult to locate. I have my eye on an Indian Grocery Store near me to look for moth or "mat" beans all because someone brought them to my attention on WB.
A CAN of refried beans? For backpacking? Surely you jest?
I’ve paid as little as $1.00 for a package of these. Andrew Skurka has a recipe for beans and rice based on these instant beans.
https://santafebean.com/Santa_Fe_Bean_Company/Products.html
Wayne
First off, you have to be accurate and reasonable about the costs of food. Just because you found those beans for a dollar once, doesn't mean that that is the price. Those beans are 3 dollars a bag at the grocery store, and 3 dollars a bag on Amazon. This is their normal price. You could have been buying ones that were set to expire, but we must look at the normal price of things, and not how you found a great deal that nobody else can find (because it could be giving them improper pricing advice). Let's do the math here, (since you so quickly assume that I'm incorrect or joking).
The single bean bag costs 3 dollars, giving you 7.25 ounces of beans. I purchase a can of beans for 39 cents, giving me 7.75 cans of beans to your single pouch. Each can is 16 ounces (compared to 7.25 ounces of your bean). That leaves me with 124 ounces of beans before dehydrating, to your 7.25. That's over 17 times the amount of beans.
Looking into bulk refried beans, even these 8 pounds of beans costs 55 bucks. This comes out to the same price per volume as the Santa Fe beans (about 43 cents per ounce of beans). That's the price of an entire 16 ounce can, and I'm sure that will weigh more than 1 ounce after dehydrating ...... we wouldn't get a 16 to 1 reduction. I have no clue the weight reduction of refried beans, but I would assume that it's around 5 to 1 reduction.
Now, I'm not saying that buying canned food is best for everyone. There is electricity to factor in also. For me, I have my dehydrator running, as I've been constantly drying food out for this journey. I do not believe that already dried food is always the best alternative. If someone can find those at a dollar a bag, it's a great deal ..... but, I would suggest that price won't be able to be found. We must be realistic about the prices. People must be able to do math, in order to find the best deal. If you can show me a single current advertisement or online listing showing those beans for a dollar, I would gladly buy some. However, I think that you should be honest and admit that they aren't available at that price point.
Interesterified Soybean Oil (with TBHQ to preserve freshness),
That's not that uncommon. Ahh, Trambo is just working out his hike and he's sharing as much or more than it seems he's asking. Don't let it bother you. Offer something possibly useful. If it's accepted great. If not we put it out there. We can learn something from others if we stay open when we disagree too. That's what a conversation and greater understanding is about.
The difference is someone stepping in with their opinion, and suggesting that nothing more is needed than four foods. If I am making claims as to the reason to vary one's meal, suggesting only four foods needs to be eaten is very offensive. There's a difference between saying, "hey, all I eat is four foods. This is an interesting system", versus saying "all you need is these four foods ever". The first is conversational, and it follows the thread. The second is just someone wanting to talk, providing zero information, and just saying how wrong I am. Well, guess what .... I'm going to tell you how I disagree with the person's opinion who attempts to undermine the thread's proposition.
If someone thinks that the person talking about 4 foods is answering a question that I asked, this is hilarious.
.... Isn't it funny how the claim is that these foods can't be found? I'm discussing providing better fuel for the body over long periods of time, and people look for any excuse to make this seem difficult. Every single bit of food comes from a normal grocery store (or Walmart). I'm not sure what specialty food items he is talking about. This type of optimization isn't for everyone. If you're happy eating tuna and spam for months, then I congratulate you. If you find it too difficult to purchase these types of food items, then this isn't the conversation for you. This saddens me, because none of this food is complex. It shows the inability of people to surpass what they see as possible or easy.
As for "many of the food items mentioned", I would contend that only the Moth bean (aka matki bean) would be difficult to find. Essential oils weren't a large topic of this thread, but more of a reply by someone suggesting dry spices. I feel that conversation is more for the oils thread, but I can understand how they are confusingly similar (as both are to increase nutrition).
With so many people losing extreme weight on the trail, I'm surprised that more effort isn't put into nutrition. I feel that some of that is laziness, but most of it is tradition. People get set into their way of thinking. I admit that I'm taking the difficult path, but I also know that my body responds best to quality inputs. You know what? I should definitely track my weight along the trail.
MuddyWaters
02-01-2019, 14:08
It's hilarious the people who suggest that everyone else follows their boring food list. I am discussing varied nutrition sources, and eating junk doesn't follow that thinking.
You're not proving that you're hardcore because you eat four things. The fact that you think this is nutritious or tasteful is ridiculous. That's your opinion, and you'll find no nutritionist that would support four months of four foods only.
People dont eat poor on trail because they want to.
Its because it takes an inordinate amount if time, effort, and maybe $ not to.
Hiking 10-12 hrs per day simply does that to you. In town you want to sleep, eat, hang out. Not get out spreadsheets and start putting together new meals with items found on sale .
Id guess to be successful at that, people are practiced at it and enjoy doing that. Thats not everyone. Fir most....simplicity rules. Hikers have been known to exist largely on squeeze parkay or chocolate frosting to get calories needed to stop the body wasting.
Vegetarians would be way ahead of game on that Imo.
Interesterified Soybean Oil (with TBHQ to preserve freshness),
I do not know what that type of oil is. Doing some quick searches, I see that the process helps to increase nutritive value of the oil. Soy is one of those things that I'm a bit weary of for long distance treks, but I'm not sure why this is the case. When creating my trail mix, I was considering adding soy nuts to the mix. Many people currently are worried about soy, as they claim that it produces estrogen in the body. I feel that this is more of a scare tactic, but that it could have consequences at high concentrations. These high levels would come from someone using soy as a major replacement in their diet. For my trail food, I decided against soy nuts. This was just a personal preference, and not because I'm worried about estrogen. I don't think soy at normal levels would negatively affect a hiker at all, and so I would be interested in the health benefits of interesterified soybean oil.
It would be tough for any oil to displace my main oil, as I love coconut oil so much. It's my multi-tool in the kitchen, as I can do anything with it. I might make some cookie butter, by crushing up some Bischoff cookies and adding in some dark chocolate chips. If I add a little salt, the coconut oil is used as a direct butter replacement. I can use it to cook like olive oil, and it won't go rancid. The ultimate property of the oil, is that I can also deep fry with it. Not only does this give a tasty sweetness to anything fried, but the oil is also usable after frying. This leftover oil then can be added directly to food, spread onto bread, or saved for a later meal. It's a very adaptive oil, and I feel that it's perfect for the trail. I also like how it changes from solid to liquid at a specific temperature (about 75 degrees).
First off, you have to be accurate and reasonable about the costs of food. Just because you found those beans for a dollar once, doesn't mean that that is the price. Those beans are 3 dollars a bag at the grocery store, and 3 dollars a bag on Amazon. This is their normal price. You could have been buying ones that were set to expire, but we must look at the normal price of things, and not how you found a great deal that nobody else can find (because it could be giving them improper pricing advice). Let's do the math here, (since you so quickly assume that I'm incorrect or joking).
The single bean bag costs 3 dollars, giving you 7.25 ounces of beans. I purchase a can of beans for 39 cents, giving me 7.75 cans of beans to your single pouch. Each can is 16 ounces (compared to 7.25 ounces of your bean). That leaves me with 124 ounces of beans before dehydrating, to your 7.25. That's over 17 times the amount of beans.
Looking into bulk refried beans, even these 8 pounds of beans costs 55 bucks. This comes out to the same price per volume as the Santa Fe beans (about 43 cents per ounce of beans). That's the price of an entire 16 ounce can, and I'm sure that will weigh more than 1 ounce after dehydrating ...... we wouldn't get a 16 to 1 reduction. I have no clue the weight reduction of refried beans, but I would assume that it's around 5 to 1 reduction.
Now, I'm not saying that buying canned food is best for everyone. There is electricity to factor in also. For me, I have my dehydrator running, as I've been constantly drying food out for this journey. I do not believe that already dried food is always the best alternative. If someone can find those at a dollar a bag, it's a great deal ..... but, I would suggest that price won't be able to be found. We must be realistic about the prices. People must be able to do math, in order to find the best deal. If you can show me a single current advertisement or online listing showing those beans for a dollar, I would gladly buy some. However, I think that you should be honest and admit that they aren't available at that price point.
It helps to live in Texas I suppose.
Today they are slightly on sale. When they are really on sale I stock up. These are TOTALLY instant beans. I'm not sure how well your home dried beans reconstitute. I'm also not sure how the finished weight compares either.
16 ounces of BEANS? Or 16 ounces of Beans & Water?
Rather that argue and do a bunch of arithmetic to justify your position, buy a package of the Santa Fe, other brand, of instant refried beans and run them through some tasting tests.
https://www.brookshires.com/shop#/product/465070 6 servings for $2.29.
https://andrewskurka.com/2015/backpacking-dinner-recipe-beans-rice-with-fritos-cheese/
Cheers!
Wayne
stephanD
02-01-2019, 15:16
I apologize for the misunderstanding. I edited my post from "you" to "I". I hope that the offence is now corrected.
middle to middle
02-08-2019, 20:31
I ate a lot of oatmeal and slim jims. i amlooking forward to the invention of dehydrated water !
Traillium
02-08-2019, 23:54
I ate a lot of oatmeal and slim jims. i amlooking forward to the invention of dehydrated water !
That would be sublime …
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Slow Trek
02-09-2019, 00:10
Hope you can make your food system work. As for losing weight hiking,that is one of the reasons I hike. Problem is that I find the weight I thought I lost shortly after I stop hiking....
Hope you can make your food system work. As for losing weight hiking,that is one of the reasons I hike. Problem is that I find the weight I thought I lost shortly after I stop hiking....
It's called the yo yo Hiking diet. :D
Big_Old_Dog
02-20-2021, 06:32
When reading this whole thread, I wondered if any successful thruhiker (AT, CDT, PCT) actually eats such wonderfully prepared meals as the OP? If so, how? I have a good dehydrator and certainly lots of preparations and drop boxes could work. MH and other freeze dried foods are very expensive. For instance, a two serving container of MH breakfast skillet costs $10. The container has a total of 510 calories. I don't know about anyone else, but 255 calories (half) isn't a serving for me. A #10 can of MH beef stew has 2000 calories and costs $50. Call it 2 cents per calorie or about 3 dollars per mile. Skippies looks pretty good.