Re-supply for section hike through the Whites

[QuietStorm]

I'm planning a northbound-section hike beginning at Hanover, NH through to Rattle River Hostel for this June. I am trying to plan re-supply points every four days or so. I plan to hike from June 16-about June 26. What has been your experience with re-supply? What have you done after Glencliff/North Woodstock/Lincoln? I don't plan on staying at any of the huts but will be stopping in for snacks or a meal if it works out trail-wise.

[Slo-go'en]

We don't make it easy for you. The trail does not pass by any convenient places to resupply. At Franconia Notch you'd have to hitch down to North Woodstock. Since you can't hitch on the interstate, you need to make your way to Route 3, which the trail comes pretty close to.

Crawford Notch there is nothing. You'd have to hitch a long way to find even a convenience store. At Crawford notch, your several miles south of the Highland center (and don't try to walk there on the road, you can access the Highland center via trail, but not from the AT). You can get a meal at the Highland center, and maybe some candy bars but that's it.

Don't count on getting any food at the huts. Meals are for paying guests only. All the food has to be hiked in, often 3-4 miles up a steep trail so supplies are limited. At best you can get a cup of soup and some bread which was left over from the last nights dinner. They will often have cookies or brownies, also left over from the night before.

Good luck!

[peakbagger]

NH is not resupply friendly. There is no store remotely near Glencliff. The hostel has some supplies but I think most send boxes https://hikerswelcome.com/

Its about 3.5 miles down hill from Kinsman Notch to the the Notch Hostel https://notchhostel.com/. They have supplies for sale. The closest supermarket is in Lincoln and is another 3 to 4 miles from the hostel. Its a busy place, I dont know if they make scheduled runs to Lincoln.

The AT crossing at Franconia Notch has nothing except for some discreet AT signs. It goes under the parkway and heads right into the woods again. You cross a bike path or can take blue blaze to the AT parking lot. There is nothing there except an outhouse. If you walk about 1/4 of a mile down RT3 (not the parkway) you will come upon the Flume tourist attraction from here its about 5 miles to the grocery store in Lincoln. You have to walk through North Lincoln which does not have store but does have few restaurants and a gas station. There is local shuttle in that area called the Shuttle Connection https://www.facebook.com/theshuttleconnection. Not cheap but will get you to where you need to go.

The AT crossing at Crawford's Notch is desolate, just a wide spot in the road. Its 4 mile steep walk up hill to the AMC Highland Center which may hold packages (call them to check). The nearest grocery store is 25 miles south in in Glen NH on RT 302 south (at the intersection of RT 16). A lot of the traffic through the notch will be going past the grocery store but they may not know where it is. There is campground store at private campground about 5 miles south that has a very small limited selection of food. (not adequate for a multiday resupply).

The next road crossing is Pinkham Notch. AMC has a facility there but they dont have any resupply. I believe you can send packages there but call to check. The closest grocery store is Walmart in Gorham a 15 mile hitch. Walmart is on the outskirts north of town, there are a couple of convenience stores in town that have some supplied but better off going to Walmart.

The next crossing is in Shelburne NH on RT 2, there is hikers hostel right next the parking lot. I dont know what they have for supplies. The nearest Grocery store is Walmart in Gorham which is about 6 miles (4 miles to town).

The AMC huts frequently have some leftovers in the AM that are for sale and they usually have soup and most of the time baked snacks. On busy weekends they may run out. The have no food supplies for sale and the only way you can get breakfast or dinner is if you have reservations and paid for a slot. AMC has a hikers shuttle that runs a couple of fixed routes. You can pay to use them to get around but realize they are set up for hut guests and may not line up with your needs.

So unlike a lot of the AT south of the whites, the option of easy town resupplies is not there unless you burn up a lot of time off trail. Add in that a typical thruhikers daily mileage drops significantly (minimum 1/4 typical 1/2) resupply can be an issue. This continues on into Maine so might as well get your practice now.

[Gambit McCrae]

I will be following this thread as well. I will be doing NH first of September with 2 friends and resupply has been my big question.

[GoldenBear]

Its about 3.5 miles down hill from Kinsman Notch to the the Notch Hostel https://notchhostel.com/. They have supplies for sale

https://notchhostel.com/adventure-planning/at-thru-hikers/
https://notchhostel.com/amenities/

[Slo-go'en]

You might as well just sign up for the hut to hut tour. It's expensive, but it does make the hike much easier. You won't have to worry so much about resupply, you can carry a lighter pack making the big climbs easier and you don't deal with the restrictive camping regulations. The only sticky part is you'd still need all your gear for the Hanover to Glencliff section.

It's worth becoming an AMC member, the member discount is significant and I believe there is an additional discount if you do all the huts. At your age, I'd just bite the bullet and spend the money.

[Gambit McCrae]

You might as well just sign up for the hut to hut tour. It's expensive, but it does make the hike much easier. You won't have to worry so much about resupply, you can carry a lighter pack making the big climbs easier and you don't deal with the restrictive camping regulations. The only sticky part is you'd still need all your gear for the Hanover to Glencliff section.

It's worth becoming an AMC member, the member discount is significant and I believe there is an additional discount if you do all the huts. At your age, I'd just bite the bullet and spend the money.


What about at my age?! lol

I want to complete the whites without the huts, and with my pack, in a tent. Just another senseless goal I have created

[peakbagger]

Unless you have a tight schedule, if you send a box to Glencliff you can head to Franconia Notch and text for a pickup at the Flume visitor center which brings you back to the The notch Hostel. https://notchhostel.com/adventure-planning/at-thru-hikers/ I think you can catch a late store run and then take the shuttle in the AM or take a zero. Send a box to Highland Center and possibly catch the AMC shuttle at the crossing and consider a zero in the Shapleigh lodge (a slightly less expensive option than the Highland Center). Then consider a zero at Pinkham. If you are really up for it, the hostels in Gorham will give you shuttle in the AM to slack the Wildcats and Carters (A real long day! ). It will cost less than staying at the huts and more importantly it gives you flexibility in case you get off schedule. If you book a hut and you get delayed you pretty much own the spot that night as they limit the ability to swap reservations.

Note you are not alone for sure in the summer and fall in the whites. Plenty of day hikers, overnighters, section hikers and thru hikers out on the trails. If you are flexible and ask for help you can usually get it. I find that good old fashioned paper maps allow you to figure out where you are in the region as you need to understand what highway goes to what town. Cell coverage in Crawford Notch is non existent.

[fastfoxengineering]

After Moosilauke resupply in lincoln and stay at the notch. Then slackpack the kinsmans and stay at the notch. Resupply at price chopper.

Then your gonna need to carry food for Franconia Ridge and the Presidentials unless you want to take the LONG journey into North Conway.

After the presidentials stay at rattle river in Gorham. Resupply at Walmart. Then do the wildcats and finish at Rattle River.

Its webster cliffs thats a crappy spot to resupply. Theres not much you can do without a long hitch or planned ride.



Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

[Slo-go'en]

The problem with the AMC shuttle it's the same price no matter how far you go. If your just bumping up the road from the AT to the Highland center, the driver might let you do that for free (it's only 3 miles). Otherwise it's $22.

You could go directly from Zealand Falls to the Highland center via the A-Z trial (and score another 4,000 footer in the process if you take the short side trail to the summit of Mt Tom) but doing that skips a few miles of the AT. Doing the road walk is not recommended as it's a narrow, twisty road which people drive way, way too fast on. Then if you go to the Highland center, you can take the easy trail back up to Mizpah.

Lots of hikers hitch to Gorham from Pinkham. Pinkham is a busy place with day hikers so it's not too hard to get a ride. Then you could go to the Rattle river hostel and slack pack the Carter-Moriah range the next day.

[Gambit McCrae]

How many days to get from i93 to us2? if a resupply/ zero is not taken? 6 days?

[tdoczi]

How many days to get from i93 to us2? if a resupply/ zero is not taken? 6 days?
give or take a day. 5 is not impossible, neither is 7. Slo' will probably say 9 and warn you about something that has a 3% chance of delaying you for 2 more days.

[Gambit McCrae]

Feel like im hijacking the thread, I posted my tentative plan in my NH thread

[Slo-go'en]

give or take a day. 5 is not impossible, neither is 7. Slo' will probably say 9 and warn you about something that has a 3% chance of delaying you for 2 more days.

Well, I made it from the parking lot at Franconia to Crawford in two days. I was able to get a thru hiker to Gorham before dark too. But man, did that beat me up. I also made it from the Perch to Crawford going the other way in two days. The Perch to Neuman tent site took about 12 hours. But I did spend a good hour, hour and a half on Mt Washington. Had to stop and spend time at the restaurant you know. It was a nice day so stopped and took a lot of pictures too.

So, day 1. Franconia to Garfield. (I took the shuttle from Crawford, which didn't arrive at Franconia until nearly noon, so it was a late start and got to Garfield just before dark).

Garfield to Ethan pond would be day 2.

Day 3 would be to Neuman. You'd think that's a short day mileage wise, but a long day in effort. The climb out of Crawford is major. Plus you can't go any farther since you reach tree line after a big climb out of Mizpah.

Day 4, Mizpah/Neuman to the Perch. Another long killer day, but do-able.

Day 5 is back up to the ridge, go around Adams and up and over Madison, then the knee crunching, near vertical decent down to the Osgood tent site.

Day 6 is a short one to Pinkham. Or a really long killer day to the Imp shelter, seeing you not going to stay at Carter or illegally camp along the ridge. There are some serious rock scrambles on this section. But then, there have been some serious rock scrambles already.

Day 7 you arrive at RT2.

That's assuming good weather. The 3% chance of bad weather can really throw a money wrench into that plan.

[egilbe]

7-9 days is reasonable for a section hiker from Franconia Notch to Rt 2. Probably more realistic at my age. It's a beautiful area. No sense rushing through it if you don't have to.

[Dogwood]

It's a 144 mile stretch. Notch is right in the middle for a 10 day 14 m/day avg trip during late june. Supplement along the way if ya need and to keep the consumable haul lighter is one way to organize the resupply without the consumables heroics. Take a Nero or Zero somewhere as ya might want.

[Dogwood]

AT NH Guidebook rates the difficulty from 1-9. Use it to organize which days will be harder and which will be easier i.e.; which days you may want to do less and which days more miles. You're timeframe is within the summer solstice so you should take advantage of the long daylight hrs. Dont have to hike stressed or fast but ya can hike the hrs(endurance) on the higher difficult rated segments(miles). HYOH YMMV

[Mouser999]

Check out the Notch Hostel. Great place to stay and I believe they do shuttles.

[peakbagger]

https://notchhostel.com/adventure-planning/at-thru-hikers/

Free shuttles do not run during weekends in peak season.

Other taxi services in area
The Shuttle Connection” — 603-745-3140 (for immediate pick up) or 603-348-7422 (for advance reservation)

Uber, Lyft

We live in a major tourist town, complete with our own local taxi service, The Shuttle Connection. Operates 6:30am – 2am daily, best for local trips. 603-745-3140. Approx. $5-6 for ride to/from town, $10 to/from trailheads. Warning: They charge PER PERSON – can be expensive for large groups. Call ahead if possible as they can run late during busy season, and make sure to call and cancel if you find another ride.

Based on the above copied from the Notch Website, its best to avoid the Notch hostel on weekends if you want special services.

I havent heard of anyone successfully getting Uber or Lyft services in the region but perhaps I just do not listen in the right places.

[peakbagger]

The problem with the AMC shuttle it's the same price no matter how far you go. If your just bumping up the road from the AT to the Highland center, the driver might let you do that for free (it's only 3 miles). Otherwise it's $22.

You could go directly from Zealand Falls to the Highland center via the A-Z trial (and score another 4,000 footer in the process if you take the short side trail to the summit of Mt Tom) but doing that skips a few miles of the AT. Doing the road walk is not recommended as it's a narrow, twisty road which people drive way, way too fast on. Then if you go to the Highland center, you can take the easy trail back up to Mizpah.

Lots of hikers hitch to Gorham from Pinkham. Pinkham is a busy place with day hikers so it's not too hard to get a ride. Then you could go to the Rattle river hostel and slack pack the Carter-Moriah range the next day.

I and others pick up folks all the time and give them a ride up to Highland center in Crawford Notch if I am driving by. I do the same at Pinkham Notch to Gorham. At those locations its pretty much a guarantee that someone is a day, section or thru hiker. Same with Rattle River to Gorham. I am bit more careful on RT 2 in Gorham going west as RT 2 is a popular hitch for sketchy characters heading to VT. Heck over the years I have picked up thru and section hikers going east on RT 2 and gone out of my way to get them where they need to be. The key thing is that I am doing it when I can on my schedule. I dont have the least interest in doing shuttling and the insurance required makes it a money loser.

[Dogwood]

Yup, easy for one even with a modicum of getting a ride experience as a backpcker/hiker getting a ride in those directions and roads Peakbagger said. And, there tends to be little or no added hassle for rides to take ya 3 or 12 miles. It's vastly a one ride either distance.

[fastfoxengineering]

Ive never had a problem getting a hitch in the Whites.

From New Hampshire residents.

Massholes and Connnecticut plates give you weird looks. Your ruining their vacation.

A guy from Canada practically kicked his family out of the car to give me a quarter mile hitch once lol... I couldnt say no at that point.

Im always giving hikers rides around the Whites.

So far I've had 3 thru hikers go down North Twin by accident. All the way to the campspots on the dirt road. I end up bringing them to the gas station for soda and then to the zealand falls trail head. They dont realize how bad they messed up until were still driving 25 minutes later.

Walking around North Conway as a dirty smelly thru hiker is a treat. You can scare the tourists there.




Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

[peakbagger]

Probably worth a thread on how confused hikers can end up at the wrong place in the whites. I have picked up folks who decided to hike up and over Mt Washington figuring they would get quick hitch back to their car on the other side. Typically its not one hitch its 4 or 5 in row. I also will find folks trying to hitch back to their cars after a presi traverse via Mt Clinton Road (now closed) and Jefferson Notch road. Both are desolate dirt FS roads that get little or no traffic after dark.

[QuietStorm]

Thanks. This was helpful. I'm beginning to sharpen my plan. I recognize starting in Hanover as a section hiker will be challenging. Although I have over 2,000 AT miles under my belt, I won't have my trail legs. I'm hiking every other weekend and have a good workout plan in place but I don't underestimate the physical challenge (although don't agree with the poster who said something like 'at my age...') I'm breaking up the hike into three legs--Hanover to The Notch hostel-(pick-up, shuttle, overnight and re-supply), The Notch (Kinsman notch parking) to Rt. 302/Crawford Notch (pick-up, shuttle, overnight, and re-supply by Rattle River Hostel), and Rt. 302 to Rattle River Hostel. i'm giving myself about 4 days for each leg, which is ambitious, but have a little leeway to add days if needed. I'll be carrying 4 days' food for each leg. I am sending re-supply boxes to The Notch and Rattle River Hostel. Just praying for good weather and clear views.

[fastfoxengineering]

You can pray for good weather. But the truth is if its gonna be really bad weather, its unadvisable to he hiking the franconia ridge or in the presedentials.

It's more than just... a crappy view kind of day.


Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

[Slo-go'en]

You can pray for good weather. But the truth is if its gonna be really bad weather, its unadvisable to he hiking the franconia ridge or in the presedentials.

It's more than just... a crappy view kind of day.

End of June hike. Very good chance of a few days of rain in a 12 day window. If it's raining and your not hiking in a stream, your not on the trail.

I would take the Hanover to Franconia leg a little slower and do it in 6 days and not 4. Send a box to the Hikers Welcome hostel in Glencliff. The little store they can take you to doesn't have much in the way of hiker food, but they have a grill and they make a decent sandwich.

You really don't need to send a box to Rattle river, they will take you to Walmart.

[fastfoxengineering]

End of June hike. Very good chance of a few days of rain in a 12 day window. If it's raining and your not hiking in a stream, your not on the trail.

I would take the Hanover to Franconia leg a little slower and do it in 6 days and not 4. Send a box to the Hikers Welcome hostel in Glencliff. The little store they can take you to doesn't have much in the way of hiker food, but they have a grill and they make a decent sandwich.

You really don't need to send a box to Rattle river, they will take you to Walmart.Yes most thru hikers go fram Hanover to Hikers Welcome Hostel.

Its a good push from Hanover to Glencliff.

The store in Glencliff is mediocre. But you only need 1 day of food food to get you to lincoln.

Slackpacking Moosilauke is very popular. And advisable in crappy weather. The Beaver Brook trail can be sketchyyyy in pouring rain.

I dont know how you feel about slackpacking. But the most efficient way to move through the Whites quickly is by having a really light pack. And slackpacking the AT in the Whites is easy using the hostels.

The Price Chopper in Lincoln is a good resupply.

The Walmart in Gorham is a good resupply.

Typically thru hiker schedule:

Mt moosilauke 1 day
The Kinsmans to Franconia Notch 1 day
Franconia Notch to Crawford Notch 2 days
Crawford to Pinkham 2 days
Pinkham to Rattle river 2 days

And looking back on that.. thats some serious terrain covered fast.

Its pretty much impossible to move faster than that unless your an absolute beast or can endure tremendous amounts of pain.

You can slackpack Moosilauke, the kinsmans, then carry 4-5 days from franconia to pinkham, then slackpack the wildcats and moriah to rattle river (but thats a BIG day hike)

I dont remeber how long it took to get from hanover to glencliff.

But heres how i did it.

I backpacked from Hanover to Hikers Welcome Hostel. I resupplied one day of food at the general store.

I then carried 1 day of food over mt Moosilauke. Stayed at the Notch Hostel. Zerod. Resupplied 1 day at price chopper.

I then hiked over the kinsmans to franconia notch. I hitch hiked back into lincoln to see some friends. Resupplied at price chopper 4 days and stayed at chets place.

I then hiked from franconia to garfield ridge tentsite.

Then from garfield ridge tent site to the pond after zealand falls on the flat section. I forget the name.

Then from the pond to Mizpah hut. Got some really good trail magic at the road before heading up to webster cliffs. It was also raining. Go figure.

Mizpah tentsite all the way to the campsite at the base of madison, which is only a few easy miles from the pinkham notch. The next morning, we hiked out to pinkham notch got breakfast at the vistors center and stayed at the barn. Resupplied at walmart for two days.

The next day we hiked from pinkham up and over the wild cats, over the carters to imp? Campsite. The next day we hiked to rattle river and stayed and zerod at the hostel. Resupllied at walmart and headed north towards Maine!

Most neros and zeros i took on the whole trail. But if theres one place your gonna do it....

Tons of rugged elevation change.

I've never slackpacked.. but next time I hike the AT..

My packs gonna weigh 5lbs or im slackpacking the whole thing.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

[egilbe]

Yes most thru hikers go fram Hanover to Hikers Welcome Hostel.

Its a good push from Hanover to Glencliff.

The store in Glencliff is mediocre. But you only need 1 day of food food to get you to lincoln.

Slackpacking Moosilauke is very popular. And advisable in crappy weather. The Beaver Brook trail can be sketchyyyy in pouring rain.

I dont know how you feel about slackpacking. But the most efficient way to move through the Whites quickly is by having a really light pack. And slackpacking the AT in the Whites is easy using the hostels.

The Price Chopper in Lincoln is a good resupply.

The Walmart in Gorham is a good resupply.

Typically thru hiker schedule:

Mt moosilauke 1 day
The Kinsmans to Franconia Notch 1 day
Franconia Notch to Crawford Notch 2 days
Crawford to Pinkham 2 days
Pinkham to Rattle river 2 days

And looking back on that.. thats some serious terrain covered fast.

Its pretty much impossible to move faster than that unless your an absolute beast or can endure tremendous amounts of pain.

You can slackpack Moosilauke, the kinsmans, then carry 4-5 days from franconia to pinkham, then slackpack the wildcats and moriah to rattle river (but thats a BIG day hike)

I dont remeber how long it took to get from hanover to glencliff.

But heres how i did it.

I backpacked from Hanover to Hikers Welcome Hostel. I resupplied one day of food at the general store.

I then carried 1 day of food over mt Moosilauke. Stayed at the Notch Hostel. Zerod. Resupplied 1 day at price chopper.

I then hiked over the kinsmans to franconia notch. I hitch hiked back into lincoln to see some friends. Resupplied at price chopper 4 days and stayed at chets place.

I then hiked from franconia to garfield ridge tentsite.

Then from garfield ridge tent site to the pond after zealand falls on the flat section. I forget the name.

Then from the pond to Mizpah hut. Got some really good trail magic at the road before heading up to webster cliffs. It was also raining. Go figure.

Mizpah tentsite all the way to the campsite at the base of madison, which is only a few easy miles from the pinkham notch. The next morning, we hiked out to pinkham notch got breakfast at the vistors center and stayed at the barn. Resupplied at walmart for two days.

The next day we hiked from pinkham up and over the wild cats, over the carters to imp? Campsite. The next day we hiked to rattle river and stayed and zerod at the hostel. Resupllied at walmart and headed north towards Maine!

Most neros and zeros i took on the whole trail. But if theres one place your gonna do it....

Tons of rugged elevation change.

I've never slackpacked.. but next time I hike the AT..

My packs gonna weigh 5lbs or im slackpacking the whole thing.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

That's about right, realistic.

[Dogwood]

Thanks. This was helpful. I'm beginning to sharpen my plan. I recognize starting in Hanover as a section hiker will be challenging. Although I have over 2,000 AT miles under my belt, I won't have my trail legs. I'm hiking every other weekend and have a good workout plan in place but I don't underestimate the physical challenge (although don't agree with the poster who said something like 'at my age...') I'm breaking up the hike into three legs--Hanover to The Notch hostel-(pick-up, shuttle, overnight and re-supply), The Notch (Kinsman notch parking) to Rt. 302/Crawford Notch (pick-up, shuttle, overnight, and re-supply by Rattle River Hostel), and Rt. 302 to Rattle River Hostel. i'm giving myself about 4 days for each leg, which is ambitious, but have a little leeway to add days if needed. I'll be carrying 4 days' food for each leg. I am sending re-supply boxes to The Notch and Rattle River Hostel. Just praying for good weather and clear views.

If you're willing to entertain hitching and shuttles factor you factor that into your three legs possibly not doing all the legs linearly in the same direction. Look at the elevation profile for your hike. Reversing a segment could make a huge elev difference or descending rather ascending. It could make for an easier 144 miles. It could be useful since you're not going to have your trail legs in a tougher AT state. :)

[fastfoxengineering]

If you're willing to entertain hitching and shuttles factor you factor that into your three legs possibly not doing all the legs linearly in the same direction. Look at the elevation profile for your hike. Reversing a segment could make a huge elev difference or descending rather ascending. It could make for an easier 144 miles. It could be useful since you're not going to have your trail legs in a tougher AT state. :)Crawford Notch. Webster Cliffs. The Presidential Traverse. Mt. Washington. Mt. Madison. Down to Pinkham Notch. Wildcat ABCD. Down to Carter Notch. The climb up Carter. The Carter-Moriah traverse. It hurts just talking about it.

Ambitious for 4 days. Ambitious. All this on the tale end of beating yourself up from hanover to glencliff, Moosilauke, kinsmans, franconia ridge.. garfield. South twin..

At least you can open up the stride after zealand falls.

I would tell the average hiker to plan for 6 days for that section. And pray for good weather.

The Wildcats to moriah is a death sentence in wet weather.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

[tdoczi]

If you're willing to entertain hitching and shuttles factor you factor that into your three legs possibly not doing all the legs linearly in the same direction. Look at the elevation profile for your hike. Reversing a segment could make a huge elev difference or descending rather ascending. It could make for an easier 144 miles. It could be useful since you're not going to have your trail legs in a tougher AT state. :)

my unscientific observation is that this exact thing is so common amongst thru hikers (especially WRT to moosilauke) as to be possibly even be the norm. if someone took a survey and counted and told me 60% of nobo thrus hike over Moosilauke southbound i would not be the least bit surprised.

i like to interject that at times into discussions about purity.

[fastfoxengineering]

my unscientific observation is that this exact thing is so common amongst thru hikers (especially WRT to moosilauke) as to be possibly even be the norm. if someone took a survey and counted and told me 60% of nobo thrus hike over Moosilauke southbound i would not be the least bit surprised.

i like to interject that at times into discussions about purity.I stayed at hikers welcome hostel with a big group of thru hiker friends.

There was like 20 of us doing moosilauke the next day. Pretty sure I was the only 1 of 20 who didnt slackpack sobo.

Ascending beaver brook is deffinetly the smart way to do it.

For some reaskon ive descended that trail 4 times now.

Youd think id learn my lesson.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

[Dogwood]

my unscientific observation is that this exact thing is so common amongst thru hikers (especially WRT to moosilauke) as to be possibly even be the norm. if someone took a survey and counted and told me 60% of nobo thrus hike over Moosilauke southbound i would not be the least bit surprised.

i like to interject that at times into discussions about purity.
IMO it is or was more common around Mt Greylock in Mass. slack from summit to one of the Dalton trail angels and hike on from the summit on a thru. it was more a NOBO thing. I did it...one time. Another time went linearly forward. I'm half pure. :D It was big thing in the past. Dont know if it still is. Made for a 28 mile 3/4 day slack pack.

Sometime that steep granite trail step and rebar construction segment on the north side of moose is icy slick and more dangerous descending than ascending plus you're hiking to the hostel which factors into why some do it.

[tdoczi]

IMO it is or was more common around Mt Greylock in Mass. slack from summit to one of the Dalton trail angels and hike on from the summit on a thru. it was more a NOBO thing. I did it...one time. Another time went linearly forward. I'm half pure. :D It was big thing in the past. Dont know if it still is. Made for a 28 mile 3/4 day slack pack.

Sometime that steep granite trail step and rebar construction segment on the north side of moose is icy slick and more dangerous descending than ascending plus you're hiking to the hostel which factors into why some do it.
its totally about the hostel and related to the resupply problems that have been discussed. almost everyone goes to that hostel and the hostel probably asks everyone if theyd like to slack moosilauke in the opposition direction. i imagine given all the circumstances involved their success rate at convincing people to do this is high.

i'm not sure greylock has the same level of incentive

when i slackpacked moosilauke/kinsman and the area just south of it over the coruse of several days everyone i saw went the other direction over moosilauke (except for me. not out of a sense of purity, just other logistics thru hikers dont have to deal with)

[Slo-go'en]

My knees much prefer going up then going down. Plus going down can be down right dangerous. A lot easier to get hurt going down then going up. Plus the down is often at the end of the day when your tired. But what goes up, must go down so there really isn't any way to avoid it. Yep, my knees hurt just thinking about it. I really need to move someplace where the hiking is easier :)

[peakbagger]

Hostels need cash flow and running slack-pack shuttles is reliable revenue. It also opens up having a hiker stay 2 nights instead of one without a lot of extra work on the owners part. There is lot to be said for a shuttle over Moosilaukee as its from one AT road crossing to another AT road crossing, no blue blazes so its an easier sell. Same with the Wildcat/carters/Moriah slackpack, road to road and no blue blazes although its a very long day. Having the slack pack end at a hostel makes a lot of sense as the hiker can set his own pace and not worry about missing a pickup at Kinsman Notch and having to walk 3 additional miles down to the Notch Hostel.

FYI the northbound hike from Kinsman Notch is no cake walk as a slackpack. Its a long haul all the way out to the crossing under the parkway. The hike up South Kinsman has a taste of uphill boulder scrambling at its best that will become a bit more prevalent heading northwards

[tdoczi]

Hostels need cash flow and running slack-pack shuttles is reliable revenue. It also opens up having a hiker stay 2 nights instead of one without a lot of extra work on the owners part. There is lot to be said for a shuttle over Moosilaukee as its from one AT road crossing to another AT road crossing, no blue blazes so its an easier sell. Same with the Wildcat/carters/Moriah slackpack, road to road and no blue blazes although its a very long day. Having the slack pack end at a hostel makes a lot of sense as the hiker can set his own pace and not worry about missing a pickup at Kinsman Notch and having to walk 3 additional miles down to the Notch Hostel.

FYI the northbound hike from Kinsman Notch is no cake walk as a slackpack. Its a long haul all the way out to the crossing under the parkway. The hike up South Kinsman has a taste of uphill boulder scrambling at its best that will become a bit more prevalent heading northwards

oh it makes total sense and i would at least consider doing it if i were a NOBO thru. and i don't begrudge the hostel the chance to make money.

but in a conversation about purity i think you need to acknowledge just how rampant these things are. i find a lot of purists don't like to do so.

[peakbagger]

I think there has been many discussions over the years that the level of purism tends to decline as the number of miles and months hiked increases.

At one time there was an informal group of hostels and shutters that offered a "slack the whites" option. They utilized blue blaze side trails to break the whites into one day slackpacks. it was extra miles each day but was an option although I think is gradually died out as the reality of hiking a typical 6 extra miles a day and 2000 feet of vertical to get up to the ridge would decidedly reduce the demand.

I have met folks who did Crawford Notch to the Caps Ridge trail lot (highest trailhead in NH at 3008) and then do the Caps Ridge trail to Pinkham the next. Another alternative catch the 9 AM hiker shuttle up the autoroad to the top of Mt Washington and then hike south to Crawford Notch one day and then do it again the next day northbound to Pinkham. This really chews up morning daylight.

[fastfoxengineering]

What I found is once you get to NH there are two kinds of hikers.

"Purist" type LD Backpackers who have the health, ability, fitness, stamina, and stubborness to backpack that far.

Slackpackers who have the will and want to finish the hike. They do whats necessary to finish the trail. Probably been slacking up the whole trail.

At that point we all live in harmony. No one cares how one hikes at that point. All that matters is your still there lol.

Purism talk only truly matters on the internet from people who have never thru hiked.


Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

[tdoczi]

What I found is once you get to NH there are two kinds of hikers.

"Purist" type LD Backpackers who have the health, ability, fitness, stamina, and stubborness to backpack that far.

Slackpackers who have the will and want to finish the hike. They do whats necessary to finish the trail. Probably been slacking up the whole trail.

At that point we all live in harmony. No one cares how one hikes at that point. All that matters is your still there lol.

Purism talk only truly matters on the internet from people who have never thru hiked.


Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
for the record, and at risk of causing more of a tangent than i already have, i only bring up the slackpack reverse over moosilauke in discussions of purism to point out that very few, if any, hikers hike the whole trail while never doing something someone somewhere would call "unpure." i find it interesting the things that are objectionable and the things that are not, to those who seem to care.

another place, even more curious, where i observed such a thing to be very common is north of pearisburg, though not as common.

[QuietStorm]

for the record, and at risk of causing more of a tangent than i already have, i only bring up the slackpack reverse over moosilauke in discussions of purism to point out that very few, if any, hikers hike the whole trail while never doing something someone somewhere would call "unpure." i find it interesting the things that are objectionable and the things that are not, to those who seem to care.

another place, even more curious, where i observed such a thing to be very common is north of pearisburg, though not as common.

As the OP not sure how we got to this point, but I find it interesting. For whatever it's worth, which is probably very little, I have not slackpacked, yellow-blazed, or even blue-blazed on bad weather trails--yet anyway--and am committed to continuing to hike as I have between Springer and Hanover and all my day, weekend, and overnight training hikes in between. I don't criticize anyone for doing so. I've noticed a lot of the 2019 thru hiker-vloggers this year slackpacking and taking zeros because of the weather. I think you have to do what you feel is safe, enjoyable, or some combination of the two. Some of us masochists like the challenge of hiking with a full pack. I love my pack and feel lost without it, as crazy as that sounds. I rarely stay in hostels--using them mainly as re-supply points or parking my car. I use re-supply boxes because I found on my Massachusetts section hike that I would much rather be hiking or resting than food shopping. In any case, thanks to everyone for the advice so far. You have me thoroughly intimidated by the Whites but I'm sure as my planning falls into place I'll get over it.

[tdoczi]

As the OP not sure how we got to this point, but I find it interesting. For whatever it's worth, which is probably very little, I have not slackpacked, yellow-blazed, or even blue-blazed on bad weather trails--yet anyway--and am committed to continuing to hike as I have between Springer and Hanover and all my day, weekend, and overnight training hikes in between. I don't criticize anyone for doing so. I've noticed a lot of the 2019 thru hiker-vloggers this year slackpacking and taking zeros because of the weather. I think you have to do what you feel is safe, enjoyable, or some combination of the two. Some of us masochists like the challenge of hiking with a full pack. I love my pack and feel lost without it, as crazy as that sounds. I rarely stay in hostels--using them mainly as re-supply points or parking my car. I use re-supply boxes because I found on my Massachusetts section hike that I would much rather be hiking or resting than food shopping. In any case, thanks to everyone for the advice so far. You have me thoroughly intimidated by the Whites but I'm sure as my planning falls into place I'll get over it.

another bit of advice, and someone else touched on this briefly in this thread or maybe the other similar thread- if the weather is bad and you can afford to do so, wait it out. not just for safety, but poor weather just throws the "this sucks" vs "this is awesome" equilibrium way out of balance and it becomes pretty much just all suck.

[peakbagger]

"This sucks" can quickly turn into "I could die or get seriously hurt" above treeline in the whites. Thus my recommendations about being flexible. It has snowed every month of the year on Mt Washington and the conditions are right for hypothermia a couple of days a month even in summer. The AMC huts do post realistic weather forecasts applicable to the ridgeline every morning for all to see and the crew are generally quite familiar with what conditions are potentially life threatening. They do have contingencies in place for guests if the conditions to the next hut are expected to be dangerous.

Do note the AT is the bad weather route that skips the summits starting at Eisenhower all the way to Madison. In some cases like Washington the bypass is trivial but on the majority to hit every blaze you need to do an out and back of varying length back via a blueblaze from either junction with the bad weather trail (which is the AT) to get to the actual summit and its associated 360 degree view. Doing all those out and backs do eat up some time and elevation gain on what is potentially a very long day so plan them in if you want to keep pure and also get the views.

[tdoczi]

"This sucks" can quickly turn into "I could die or get seriously hurt"

for sure. i guess my point was that even when it seems undoubtedly safe to proceed it might be more enjoyable to wait anyway.

[Slo-go'en]

Waiting out bad weather keeps you alive. Pushing on no matter what gets people killed or injured. Bad weather above tree line is not to be triffid with. People get seriously hurt and die in these mountains every year.
Plus like tdoczi says, it sucks.

If it's raining, it's usually very windy above tree line which compounds the problem. Nothing like 40 degree rain hitting you sideways at up to 50 mph for hours while trying to stay upright on those slippery, seemingly randomly placed rocks we call a trail, all the while trying to spot the next carion so you know which way to go. If you head out into those conditions, you best have the smarts to turn around before you go too far into it to turn around. There aren't many options to get out of bad weather once your into it and all those options are bad.

Early summer storms tend to move through pretty fast, so waiting out a rainy day isn't too big a deal. It's prudent. With any luck, it will come through at night. There are daily forecasts for the ridges from the Mt Washington obs, it's worth paying attention to them. That can help you plan for where you want to be for the next few days. And more importantly, where you don't want to be.

Be smart, be safe and enjoy.

You don't want to be here when it's raining.
44805

[tdoczi]

Waiting out bad weather keeps you alive.

this is where this always ends up becoming too dichotomous.

there are nice, beautiful pleasant days.

there are dangerous days. and for sake of argument we can call "almost maybe sort of on the brink of turning dangerous" as dangerous.

and then there are days that are perfectly safe but just no fun. even in the whites these days exist. i know, ive hiked on more than one.

its this last set i'm talking about.

[Slo-go'en]

this is where this always ends up becoming too dichotomous.

there are nice, beautiful pleasant days.

there are dangerous days. and for sake of argument we can call "almost maybe sort of on the brink of turning dangerous" as dangerous.

and then there are days that are perfectly safe but just no fun. even in the whites these days exist. i know, ive hiked on more than one.

its this last set i'm talking about.

Yep, there are many days when it's just nasty windy (which is the usual state) and others when your in a cloud the whole way. The summits are often in a cloud all day in July when it's humid. Actual precipitation is when it turns dangerous.

[tdoczi]

Yep, there are many days when it's just nasty windy (which is the usual state) and others when your in a cloud the whole way. The summits are often in a cloud all day in July when it's humid. Actual precipitation is when it turns dangerous.

i think precipitation = danger is a mite too far.

[One Half]

i think precipitation = danger is a mite too far.

then you haven't been in the Whites much have you?
precip in the whites in the middle of summer can become sleet or snow at any moment. white out conditions, even when it's "just fog" can make losing the trail, and your life, a serious prospect. Get caught above tree line when a storm rolls in, with or without lightning, and see how fast you are scrambling to find a "safe space."

[fastfoxengineering]

then you haven't been in the Whites much have you?
precip in the whites in the middle of summer can become sleet or snow at any moment. white out conditions, even when it's "just fog" can make losing the trail, and your life, a serious prospect. Get caught above tree line when a storm rolls in, with or without lightning, and see how fast you are scrambling to find a "safe space."Its not even the sleet or snow.

It's the slabs of rock you HAVE to jungle gym down.

I hate descending anything in the Whites when its raining..No matter the season.

The Carter-Moriah ridge during any wet weather is a horrible experience.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

[tdoczi]

then you haven't been in the Whites much have you?
precip in the whites in the middle of summer can become sleet or snow at any moment. white out conditions, even when it's "just fog" can make losing the trail, and your life, a serious prospect. Get caught above tree line when a storm rolls in, with or without lightning, and see how fast you are scrambling to find a "safe space."

i've been in both the carters and the mahoosucs on rainy days, and i was far from the only person out hiking. it never felt anywhere near dangerous, lets save the hyperbole.

[tdoczi]

Its not even the sleet or snow.

It's the slabs of rock you HAVE to jungle gym down.

I hate descending anything in the Whites when its raining..No matter the season.

The Carter-Moriah ridge during any wet weather is a horrible experience.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
thats a large part of what i'm talking about when i talk about suck factor

[fastfoxengineering]

i've been in both the carters and the mahoosucs on rainy days, and i was far from the only person out hiking. it never felt anywhere near dangerous, lets save the hyperbole.
"Never felt anywhere near dangerous"

Mt Washington has a serious death toll.

It must be because its not anywhere near dangerous...



Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

[tdoczi]

"Never felt anywhere near dangerous"

Mt Washington has a serious death toll.

It must be because its not anywhere near dangerous...



Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
right, because "its never dangerous to hike in the whites" is anywhere near what i said.