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lonehiker
03-10-2019, 11:15
https://www.bigagnes.com/Tiger-Wall-2-Carbon

A bit pricey.

Vince G
03-10-2019, 11:19
This is a nice accompaniment to my $1,000 iPhone. BTW, Iíll be eating cat food from now on!


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Venchka
03-10-2019, 11:49
This is a nice accompaniment to my $1,000 iPhone. BTW, Iíll be eating cat food from now on!


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AMEN! Brother.
Wayne

beefsmack
03-10-2019, 13:10
Wowzers. That is insane!

W8lkinUSA
03-10-2019, 13:43
Nice!! First UL freestanding tent in the market?

If I had never-ending beautiful stone-topped mountains to scale, I would totally drop the coin on it so that I can rock both hammock and tent on backpacking adventures. Who needs an iPhone when you can settle with a flip phone?

SWODaddy
03-10-2019, 13:49
REI warranty/returns department has to be chain smoking right about now.

lonehiker
03-10-2019, 13:50
I would like to add that they do have 2 progressively cheaper models of the Tiger Wall. They are a little heavier but still fairly light. For the record I will be using my Fly Creek (instead of my Duplex) on my upcoming NM CDT trip.

W8lkinUSA
03-11-2019, 03:45
On second thought, this might be too confining for my 5' 11'' height. :)
Think I'll start with Massdrop's recent Mountainsmith Morrison 2p tent drop for now.

T.S.Kobzol
03-11-2019, 05:18
Cool tent. There may be slight decision agony if you you get caught in a downpour at dusk, desperately looking for a flat spot when you finally find one and now have decide whether you want to inspect the ground for pricklies or say da hell with $1000 [emoji16]


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BradMT
03-11-2019, 10:07
REI warranty/returns department has to be chain smoking right about now.


Man, isn't that the truth.

Not sure what BA is smoking down there in Colorado, but this creation is going to be problem laden given the weight fabric's they've settled on... IMO, 0.33oz cuben for a tent fly is nuts as is 0.5oz cuben for a floor.

CalebJ
03-11-2019, 10:16
How do you know they're using .33 on the fly and .5 on the floor? I didn't see that kind of info on the BA page.

T.S.Kobzol
03-11-2019, 10:27
Probably not fully freestanding because one side only uses one pole and thus you have to stake out the corners ... at least from the photographs on their web site .. .. similar to Fly Creek


Nice!! First UL freestanding tent in the market?

If I had never-ending beautiful stone-topped mountains to scale, I would totally drop the coin on it so that I can rock both hammock and tent on backpacking adventures. Who needs an iPhone when you can settle with a flip phone?

BradMT
03-11-2019, 10:38
How do you know they're using .33 on the fly and .5 on the floor? I didn't see that kind of info on the BA page.

My bad: 0.34 on the fly.
https://andrewskurka.com/2018/preview-big-agnes-carbon-dyneema-tent-tarp-bivy/

CalebJ
03-11-2019, 10:47
Thanks for sharing that! I'd missed that article previously. Definitely agree with Skurka's appraisal of those selections as 'bold'. Yikes.

HooKooDooKu
03-11-2019, 11:06
Probably not fully freestanding because one side only uses one pole and thus you have to stake out the corners ... at least from the photographs on their web site .. ..
The above listed review uses the words "semi-freestanding" to describe both the Tiger Wall and the Fly Creek.

trailmercury
03-11-2019, 13:28
It's not apples to apples, but something like the Triplex seems like better value here.

freestanding/double wall feature for 300 more bucks, but at the expense of durability?

PASS, even if I can a get a knew one from REI after every trip due to failure.

Ethesis
03-11-2019, 15:19
My bad: 0.34 on the fly.
https://andrewskurka.com/2018/preview-big-agnes-carbon-dyneema-tent-tarp-bivy/

yep. And BA has pushed the Dyneema/carbon Copper Spur as well.

Vince G
03-11-2019, 15:26
My bad: 0.34 on the fly.
https://andrewskurka.com/2018/preview-big-agnes-carbon-dyneema-tent-tarp-bivy/

Man, your right about this. I was paranoid about my .51 Duplex, and this thing is gonna seem like tissue paper. Also, bear in mind that the fly will be subject to abrasion as the poles shift in the wind. Now, the fly may have a thicker Mylar coating but, in any case, this is not my cup of tea.


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W8lkinUSA
03-11-2019, 19:55
Y'all are bringing to light the details that I didn't bother reading into. Pays to read between the lines.

connolm
03-11-2019, 20:52
I love new gear and ambitious new designs. And if I won the lottery tonight, I'd unquestionably spend $1K on this tent. But aside from winning the lottery, this tent requires some perspective.

(...and maybe I'm a bit emotional because I can't afford one...)

Big Agnes lists the packed weight at 1 lb 11 oz with 27 sq. ft, a 39 inch ceiling height, and TWO doors each with 8 sq ft vestibule. For $999.99. Yup - one thousand bucks.

My SMD Lunar Solo is 1 lb 12.12 oz (with stakes and guy-outs) offering 26 sq. ft, a 48 inch ceiling height, and ONE door with 8 sq ft vestibule. For $200. Yup - $800.00 bucks cheaper.

Obviously not a fair comparison: double-wall vs single-wall; two vestibules vs one; "Free-standing" vs stakes...

But the Tiger Wall is NOT a truly free-standing tent. I have a FlyCreek and know that this design requires stakes to widen out the foot box.

And this isn't ideally a two-person tent. SMD lists their 26 sq ft as "1.5 person." And I believe it. 1 more sq ft doesn't make it a comfortable two-person tent. This is a cozy tent. You won't be sleeping in it with anyone except a really good friend - and then all your shizz will be in the vestibules. I suspect most peeps use these "two-person" tents as a solo tents. (like I do.) Why do so many videos show solo hikers in the Z-packs Duplex? (Homemade Wanderlust/Dixie and Darwin...)

And the difference between 39" inch ceiling height vs 48 inches is HYUUUGE - in my experience with my Flycreek Ul1 vs. my SMD Lunar Solo.

So I'm pissing angry because I can't afford one. But in actuality, I don't really feel bad. I don't think the extra vestibule and double-wall are worth $800 extra. (Keep telling myself that... Keep telling myself that... Repeat, Keep telling myself that...)

Maybe someone can compare-o with a Z-packs Duplex?

BradMT
03-12-2019, 00:21
Maybe someone can compare-o with a Z-packs Duplex?

Well, they’re sort of different animals, aren’t they?

Back to materials, the lightest Dyneema the Duplex is available with is .51 oz, but is also available in .67 and .74 oz.

Many folks that that have been around Dyneema want more than .51 for floor material, let alone a gossamer .34 for the fly. For instance, the new Tarptent Dyneema tents use .51 for the fly and 1.0 for the floor. That strikes me as real-world thinking.

Some get carried away counting grams and lose sight of function... I suspect BA is in for a steep learning curve here. If there is some “there, there” I’m not beyond spending 1k for a tent. But I think this creation is in the fools errand category.

We shall see...

BradMT
03-12-2019, 00:27
Man, your right about this. I was paranoid about my .51 Duplex, and this thing is gonna seem like tissue paper. Also, bear in mind that the fly will be subject to abrasion as the poles shift in the wind. Now, the fly may have a thicker Mylar coating but, in any case, this is not my cup of tea.

I’m with you there Vince. A friends .51 Duplex made me nervous too. I’ll pass on the BA...

4eyedbuzzard
03-12-2019, 06:14
It's definitely pushing the limits of materials engineering. I have to wonder, after reading Skurka's review and the many comments from that and other sources regarding ultra lightweight Cuben/Dyneema, what the real-world expected lifespan is? Can it survive a complete AT or PCT thru-hike, say 150 uses without failure to at least adequately perform before being "retired"? If so maybe there's a place for it. Unlike things like pots and even sleeping bags (not exposed to elements), tents are more like packs and clothing. They just wear out. For a well enough financed thru-hiker it can be a considered a throw-away "cost of doing business". And while the thru-hiker market is relatively small, it's significant enough to to support a lot of cottage industry, so granted, there is money to be made there. But thru-hikers, while important, are ultimately a very small part of the larger market. BA's more geared toward the mass market. And for the masses, the casual users, say someone who spends only two weeks a year hiking, 150 use lifespan could represent a ten year lifespan, five years for someone who spends 30 bag nights a year - which is way above the average for most recreational hikers. This is more realistically the target audience I would think. The reality is that most of these tents (like all tents) will get at most a few uses a year - and see a lot of closet time. Personally, I think it's up against and even likely past the "point of diminishing returns" from a cost vs weight comparison. It just doesn't save enough weight over nylon for the mass market given the trade-off in durability. But, I guess we'll see. Discounting / clearance sales next fall / winter will be an indicator of how well these are accepted by consumers.

T.S.Kobzol
03-12-2019, 08:26
I found somewhat interesting the extreme light weight combined with a purpose of packing the mesh inner separatey from the fly and the ground sheet. In rain, pitch the groundsheet and the fly and get in and dry off to a point where pitching the mesh inner would reduce the amount of 'wetted stuff' and then get in. But this all crumbled when I realized the tent is not freestanding. The flapping one pole side would reduce the vestibule operating space as well as introduce more rain inside. I mean, this is really marginal nitpicking and given the fact that I have too many tents already I only look for additional tent if it serves a particular niche or if it solves a very specific logistic use for me.

HooKooDooKu
03-12-2019, 11:36
It's definitely pushing the limits of materials engineering. I have to wonder, after reading Skurka's review and the many comments from that and other sources regarding ultra lightweight Cuben/Dyneema, what the real-world expected lifespan is? Can it survive a complete AT or PCT thru-hike, say 150 uses without failure to at least adequately perform before being "retired"?
So I decided to check on Big Agnes's Warranty Policy (https://support.bigagnes.com/hc/en-us).

Their products are "guaranteed against manufacturing or material defect" and "do not warranty products damaged from normal wear and tear".

Even REI's 100% Satisfaction Guaranty (https://help.rei.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/47) "doesn't cover ordinary wear and tear".

So, yeah, if this material is a fragile as everyone is thinking and tons of tents are getting tears in the 1st year of use, it should be interesting to see how these guarantees play out.

Ashepabst
03-13-2019, 10:56
i have to roll my eyes at the industry's harping on the whole free-standing, not free-standing crap. are there any backpacking tents out there that don't require stakes to be fully functioning tents? I can't think of any. is there a distinction that I'm missing? or is it just a way to distinguish themselves from the cottage industry that's making better tents at competitive prices?

T.S.Kobzol
03-13-2019, 12:02
well, depending on the conditions outside...if I'm getting caught by a monsoon then the last thing I want to do is to be circling my freestanding tent with stakes in hand. In such situations I pitch it 'freestanding', throw my stuff into corners to keep it relatively spread out, inflate my mattress, change into dry clothes and pull out my (hopefully) dry sleeping bag and don't go out unless I'm ok getting wet. For such eventuality I do have tents that are freestanding, with the exception of a vestibule which can be staked from within the tent and theoretically the footprint stakes as well
(it's all fun and games as long as the outdoor situation corresponds to the glossy outdoor ad :-) )



i have to roll my eyes at the industry's harping on the whole free-standing, not free-standing crap. are there any backpacking tents out there that don't require stakes to be fully functioning tents? I can't think of any. is there a distinction that I'm missing? or is it just a way to distinguish themselves from the cottage industry that's making better tents at competitive prices?

C4web88
03-13-2019, 12:42
For what it's worth, mountain laurel designs offers their DCF shelters in .5 thickness....and they make it clear that when you choose this option you dont get a warranty...I think that speaks volumes for what's going to happen with these BA ricepaper shelters....